When you say, "A good marriage takes hard work,"

[Garga]

what do you mean by that phrase? Can you give specific examples?

[Keniki]

For me it means giving when you don't feel like giving, doing what you don't feel like doing, putting up with people you don't enjoy, and raising children together even when you don't see it the same way. Sometimes it's even sticking it out when getting out seems easier. Knowing that you said 'for better or for worse' and intentionally honoring that promise, doing it all with a smile (or at least less than a frown), and growing because of it.

[Spy Car]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

[Mommyfaithe]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

 

:iagree: mostly.

There are times where one of you is having a bad go....and sticking through it is challenging. I have a good marriage. Sometimes though, it is work in that I have to let dh work out what needs to be worked out without taking it personally, or trying to fix it. We are very different people.....I am sure I give him a run for his money too:D

[saraha]

I think the hard work comes in when you have to consider someone else before yourself, and it should go both ways. Sometimes I agree to things only because my husband wants it, and my husband does things he would not rather do because I asked. Also, sometimes someone makes a decision that you knew would turn out wrong, and then when it does, both have to work through it. I would much rather have my own way all of the time, and so would my husband, but because we love each other, and are partners, we make concessions, do things we don't want to do, let each other try things out, and put up with each other's bad moods. It is hard work sometimes putting someone else before yourself, but in a good marriage, it goes both ways, so both benefit.

[Maela]

:iagree: mostly.

There are times where one of you is having a bad go....and sticking through it is challenging. I have a good marriage. Sometimes though, it is work in that I have to let dh work out what needs to be worked out without taking it personally, or trying to fix it. We are very different people.....I am sure I give him a run for his money too:D

:iagree:

I think the hard work comes in when you have to consider someone else before yourself, and it should go both ways. Sometimes I agree to things only because my husband wants it, and my husband does things he would not rather do because I asked. Also, sometimes someone makes a decision that you knew would turn out wrong, and then when it does, both have to work through it. I would much rather have my own way all of the time, and so would my husband, but because we love each other, and are partners, we make concessions, do things we don't want to do, let each other try things out, and put up with each other's bad moods. It is hard work sometimes putting someone else before yourself, but in a good marriage, it goes both ways, so both benefit.

 

:iagree:

[Verity]

For me it means giving when you don't feel like giving, doing what you don't feel like doing, putting up with people you don't enjoy, and raising children together even when you don't see it the same way. Sometimes it's even sticking it out when getting out seems easier. Knowing that you said 'for better or for worse' and intentionally honoring that promise, doing it all with a smile (or at least less than a frown), and growing because of it.

 

:iagree:

 

I think a marriage that requires no work and no compromise is some kind of fantasy. I've never seen one like that in real life. For that matter do you know of any long term friendships that don't at least occasionally require work/effort and compromise?

 

I say long term because people change over time. At 40 or 50 we aren't the same people we were at 20 or 30. Interests in hobbies, strength of religious belief, decisions about values and lifestyle choices can change, if those things change in different directions for each partner it becomes hard to maintain a friendship. When you put that kind of change under the financial, social, sexual pressures of a marriage I think you can see why is it said that a good marriage requires work.

 

I love my husband and value our family and believe in marriage...so, even

though we have alot of different interests and sometimes different values, we both make compromises to make it work.

 

My husband says that the key to a good marriage is that both partners puts the other one first. I agree. :)

[texasmama]

I do not equate a good marriage with an easy one. A good one requires self-sacrifice in many ways. I consider myself to have a good marriage, but it is not easy.

 

I'm sure there are many married couples who are naturally well-matched and, for them, marriage does not take as much hard work. Marriage has taken hard work for me...as much as because of who I am as who my husband is.

 

Marriage is such a complex relationship and is difficult to describe in a few words. Years ago I read a book based on research from interviews of people who described themselves as happily married. It was fascinating. Now, of course, I cannot recall the name or author...:tongue_smilie:

[Lisa in Jax]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

 

^ This.

[Impish]

I think the hard work aspect comes from the internal changes that happen.

 

I mean, I had to learn to take someone else's thoughts, feelings, opinions not only into consideration, but give them equal weight to my own. I'd been a single mom for 10 yrs, so that *was* a struggle for me. I was used to doing things *my* way, b/c it was the only way :lol:

 

Changing my approach to things. Learning to stop, think, weigh my words. Learning to communicate better. Learning how to undo what I'd learned from my parents, and a healthier way to conduct myself and marriage.

 

Forgiveness can also take a lot of work. And both of us have had to forgive each other along the way.

 

Wolf and I come from different backgrounds, but neither of our mothers are emotionally stable, healthy ppl. So, we had some triggers that had to be overcome, and even now still crop up. Learning to totally trust one another was probably our biggest challenge, b/c we both had serious issues w/abandonment. That we totally trust each other to keep being there...that's taken a lot of work for both of us.

 

ETA: I'd say Wolf and I have an excellent marriage, so I really don't understand how a good marriage doesn't take work.

[Scarlett]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

 

Somebody notifiy the press....I just agreed with Bill.

[Danestress]

:

I think a marriage that requires no work and no compromise is some kind of fantasy.

 

But of the things in my life that have been hard, my marriage isn't one of them. My marriage has made all the other parts of my life easier.

[Mom-ninja.]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

 

I posted about this before. My marriage has been easy so far compared to others I know. I see friends who work hard at marriage and they are not that happy.

 

I don't know. My dh and I just get along and mesh so well. We agree on just about everything. We have changed since getting married, and somehow we managed to change together in the same direction. He understands me. I understand him. We don't take advantage of each other. I make my feelings known instead of demanding that he read my mind. None of that is hard for us.

[Scarlett]

But of the things in my life that have been hard, my marriage isn't one of them. My marriage has made all the other parts of my life easier.

 

That is so well said. Totally reflects my feelings on my marriage with dh. We have difficulties sometimes, but they are related to the blended family aspect...our relationship is my strength.

 

I am not always sure people with good or even fair marriages can appreciate how bad a bad marriage can be. I was in a bad marriage for many years and I now realize that I didn't really relax ever. I was always on edge, on guard and often felt unloved and unappreciated. Mixed with just enough attention and praise to keep me off balance. It is a freaky way to live. So I cherish my dh now so much.

 

Even on his worst day he is never unkind to me. That was one of our main vows to each other....to be kind all the time forever. I don't think that takes work so much as awareness of your obligation as one human to another.

[DawnM]

It isn't hard most days! ;) It is the times when you both want something different that the issues can arise. Our differences have come in the form of location. When we married I thought I was clear that I had NO intention of being a stay at home mom OR of moving out of where we were living. Apparently not :lol: We now live on the other side of the country and I am a stay at home mom.

 

But that was our biggest "struggle."

 

Overall, we have agreed on most things, which makes it easier. We agree spiritually, financially, and somewhat politically.

 

Dawn

[Impish]

But of the things in my life that have been hard, my marriage isn't one of them. My marriage has made all the other parts of my life easier.

See, that I agree. There have been times where tension btwn us came up that def impacted other things, but overall, absolutely.

 

But, as I said before, Wolf and I had to work on *ourselves* in order to have the marriage we do. A lot of that, I found, was b/c we were both on our own for so long, that we had to learn a new path.

 

Plus, neither of us had been raised w/a healthy marriage as an example.

[dbmamaz]

I think marriage is harder when we as individuals have more baggage and are less naturally easy-going people. For pretty easy-going people who felt securely loved and are really compatible, marriage can be easy.

 

for the rest of us . . . we have to learn that expressing our feelings can hurt people so we have to learn to bite our tongues until we come up with a way to express it without blame. We have to learn not to react to what our partners say out of ego (why did he do that to me?) but out of love (he is having a bad time of it right now, so I will focus on hearing his anger and supporting him. when he's calmer I'll explain how that was hurtful to me and ask him not to . . whatever)

 

Simply stopping your own bad habits of fighting, which you have picked up along the way, can be really hard.

 

OTOH - the hard work of staying in an abusive relationship (forgiving and forgiving and forgiving even tho you are not getting much out of it and they are not trying to improve) is NOT part of a good marriage.

[nono]

Depends on the personalities of the individuals involved and their views of the world.

 

For us, it is work. But we love to work! To improve. So for us, to say it is work isn't saying it is bad. It is saying it is a priority to us to continue improving.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

 

But of the things in my life that have been hard, my marriage isn't one of them. My marriage has made all the other parts of my life easier.

 

:iagree:

 

My marriage is pretty easy and pretty darn great. We are naturally well matched and see things the same way. There is nothing that wouldn't be more fun with him along :).

 

That said, there are seasons of life where we have to pay more attention to make sure we are getting the time together that we need. Right now, we are in the middle of moving and things a crazy busy. It's not hard work to make sure that we reconnect each day, but we do have to make sure we do it. I guess I think of it as less hard work, more routine maintenance. But most of the time we don't have to "make sure" to do those things, we just naturally do them.

[kewb]

My marriage would be easier if dh would just do everything my way. However, since he insists on having his own opinions and ideas on how to do something, some things are hard.

 

The hard part comes in when I have to get past myself and consider his feelings and opinions. I frequently remind myself that just because he is not doing it my way does not make it wrong. It is just different.

[LaxMom]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

 

My ex-husband used to say it quite a lot. That is the conclusion I came to, as well.

 

There ARE things that one has to work on / trough, just like any other situation where you are interacting with another human on a continual basis. It's not "hard work" so much as "mindfulness", I think.

[MeaganS]

I think marriage is harder when we as individuals have more baggage and are less naturally easy-going people. For pretty easy-going people who felt securely loved and are really compatible, marriage can be easy.

 

for the rest of us . . . we have to learn that expressing our feelings can hurt people so we have to learn to bite our tongues until we come up with a way to express it without blame. We have to learn not to react to what our partners say out of ego (why did he do that to me?) but out of love (he is having a bad time of it right now, so I will focus on hearing his anger and supporting him. when he's calmer I'll explain how that was hurtful to me and ask him not to . . whatever)

 

Simply stopping your own bad habits of fighting, which you have picked up along the way, can be really hard.

 

:iagree:Yeah, I think the level of difficulty depends on the personality types in the marriage. Dh and I are both oldest children who are both very opinionated. We've had to do a lot of growing to get where we are. But while I'd say marriage is hard work, it is worth it. Every marriage is unique, and saying that because it takes hard work it is a bad marriage as a sweeping generalization and is oversimplifying things.

[Rose in BC]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

 

When life is flowing at a regular pace, it's easy. Throw in special needs children, long term job losses, major health problems . . . It's not always so easy as you struggle to figure it all out.

 

We're months away from celebrating 25 years and have experienced all of the above and more. It's not always been easy but we have a good marriage.

[Desert Rat]

I don't consider it work. I have a good marriage. We keep it that way by *paying attention*. Sometimes we get so busy and wrapped up in what the kids need, we forget to look across the table at each other now and again. That's why we still have an 8:30 bedtime for the boys. It's so we can catch up. We do text each other throughout the day, too. We just try to stay connected.

Too many times I see couples fall apart after their kids leave home. I think a lot of it has to do with how much attention the kids get for so long, that once they left the house two strangers were left staring at each other.

It also helps our marriage that we are very compatible. And for us, we married young and grew up together.

[Hwin]

I think it's just something people say.

 

Our marriage doesn't take work, per se, it takes compromise and sometimes requires long boring talks about feelings. It does sometimes feel like a job to hold my tongue when I want to make some clever (but nasty) remark, but it gets easier with practice :tongue_smilie:

[LaxMom]

When life is flowing at a regular pace, it's easy. Throw in special needs children, long term job losses, major health problems . . . It's not always so easy as you struggle to figure it all out.

 

We're months away from celebrating 25 years and have experienced all of the above and more. It's not always been easy but we have a good marriage.

That's life being hard, not your marriage. We all face challenges - some harder than others - that we have to work through. Your martial relationship should not be one of them, imo.

[Scarlett]

Yeah, that isn't the marriage itself that's difficult though. That's just life being difficult. When life is sucking for us, I feel like the one thing in my life that doesn't suck is my husband. It's better than going through it alone.

 

:iagree:

 

I heart my dh. He makes everything better.

[Rose in BC]

Yeah, that isn't the marriage itself that's difficult though. That's just life being difficult. When life is sucking for us, I feel like the one thing in my life that doesn't suck is my husband. It's better than going through it alone.

 

I wouldn't say we've had a difficult marriage but crisis is hard on a marriage. Especially if you view the situation or solution differently. It is hard work to navigate those rocky roads.

[mytwomonkeys]

it means we put effort into our marriage. i disagree that it's easy. it's simple (i don't think there is a secret recipe or anything), but i think it doesn't come without trying. my husband and i are still deeply in love and happy because we put effort into keep our marriage a priority. we fight fair. we let things go. we compromise. we don't speak badly about each other to friends or family. we don't put ourselves in situations that could create temptation. we respect each other. laugh still. support one another's hobbies and such.

[Cassy]

I wouldn't say it. I'd say a bad marriage takes hard work, and a good marriage is pretty easy.

 

Bill

 

:iagree: I've never found my marriage hard work. The only person who's ever said that to me was the daughter of one of MIL's friends, and I felt she was mostly just fishing to find any chinks our obviously blissful marriage :D. She likes to report back to her mother and MIL - like when she first found out we were homeschooling :glare:. I very successfully avoid her now :001_smile:.

[Lisa in Jax]

:iagree:

 

I think a marriage that requires no work and no compromise is some kind of fantasy. I've never seen one like that in real life.

 

 

I wonder if this is a matter of interpretation. There are no unicorns and rainbows here, but there's also very little of what I'd consider "work." Doing things for one another just "is." It's not work.

 

Marriage isn't "hard work," IMO, *if the overall balance is relatively even over time.* It becomes work (in my estimation) when the give and take is unbalanced -- when one person compromises much more often than the other, or when one person often isn't getting his needs met.

[elfgivas]

for us, its a matter of intentionality.

 

we intentionally choose to believe that the other has our best interests at heart.

 

we intentionally choose to kiss one another hello and goodbye, every time.

 

we intentionally choose to spend time listening to one another. (and talking, too).

 

we intentionally share our innermost thoughts and feelings.

 

we intentionally value the other's opinions and interests, hopes and dreams, trials and tribulations.

 

after this many years, most of that is habit, and just "happens". but when the outside world intrudes, and we get anxious, we need to go back to being intentional. oh, and when we talk about money. ;)

 

we have unicorns and rainbows, most of the time. the habits/intentionality have provided the glue when we needed it most.

 

is that work? is it hard work? for some, yes. for others, no. for me, not so much, most of the time. but the past few weeks when work stress + election stress + money stress + health stress collided, i've been doing my duck imitation.... being calm on the surface and paddling like a crazy woman underneath.

 

fwiw,

ann

[pdalley]

I think the hard work aspect comes from the internal changes that happen.

 

I mean, I had to learn to take someone else's thoughts, feelings, opinions not only into consideration, but give them equal weight to my own. I'd been a single mom for 10 yrs, so that *was* a struggle for me. I was used to doing things *my* way, b/c it was the only way :lol:

 

Changing my approach to things. Learning to stop, think, weigh my words. Learning to communicate better. Learning how to undo what I'd learned from my parents, and a healthier way to conduct myself and marriage.

 

Forgiveness can also take a lot of work. And both of us have had to forgive each other along the way.

 

Wolf and I come from different backgrounds, but neither of our mothers are emotionally stable, healthy ppl. So, we had some triggers that had to be overcome, and even now still crop up. Learning to totally trust one another was probably our biggest challenge, b/c we both had serious issues w/abandonment. That we totally trust each other to keep being there...that's taken a lot of work for both of us.

 

ETA: I'd say Wolf and I have an excellent marriage, so I really don't understand how a good marriage doesn't take work.

 

:iagree:

 

I had to learn that not everything is a 'hill worth dying on'. And too cool off before talking about things we disagree on.

 

But the like Imp says above - we both came from not so great parenting and badly failed relationships. I had to grow the heck up and get over myself.

 

I will say that most of the time it doesn't feel like work. No matter how frustrated we get with each other at times we are still the other's best friend and that makes it feel easy most of the time.

[KungFuPanda]

When life is flowing at a regular pace, it's easy. Throw in special needs children, long term job losses, major health problems . . . It's not always so easy as you struggle to figure it all out.

 

We're months away from celebrating 25 years and have experienced all of the above and more. It's not always been easy but we have a good marriage.

 

 

I'd say a good marriage can seem like a cake-walk as long as the basic needs are met, but throw in the stress of the things mentioned above and it can take its toll. Or like someone else said . . . Let a couple opinionated firstborns marry.

 

I know people who literally never fight, but they are naturally calm and relaxed people who don't get worked up about anything. No alpha-male husbands, no fiery wives in that mix. Some people produce fireworks. Sometimes that's a VERY good thing and sometimes it does indeed take work to reign it all in and do no damage. Not all strong marriages are made up of "Yes Dear" types. I wouldn't place more value on an effortless arrangement. Easier doesn't automatically mean better.

[Impish]

:iagree:

 

I had to learn that not everything is a 'hill worth dying on'. And too cool off before talking about things we disagree on.

 

But the like Imp says above - we both came from not so great parenting and badly failed relationships. I had to grow the heck up and get over myself.

 

I will say that most of the time it doesn't feel like work. No matter how frustrated we get with each other at times we are still the other's best friend and that makes it feel easy most of the time.

I wonder if there's a miscommunication somewhere.

 

I mean, to me, my marriage takes effort, in terms of time and attention. It doesn't exist in a vaccuum. It's not digging a ditch w/a spoon kinda work, it's not heavy, or oppressive, but it doesn't just exist w/out tending either.

[StephanieZ]

I would mean that it requires time and attention and selflessness, at least at times, and especially at stressful times.

 

My own marriage is relatively harmonious and effortless the majority of the time, especially in recent years as we've mellowed. :) But there were times, months, years, certainly days/weeks, that required much greater effort to BE the person we each intended to be.

 

When the chips are down, you have to rise above and be the kind, forgiving, loving, generous person you mean to be. Being lazy at a critical moment can doom a relationship IMHO. So, I think any marriage requires this effort at least during certain times.

[goldberry]

I think the hard work comes in with growing yourself into a better person. I had (have) some really undesirable personality traits when we got married. Selfish, judgmental, critical. It is hard work to CHANGE those traits (or at least control them), but when you love someone and love your marraige you do that work. I am still doing that work!

 

So maybe it is easier and less work if you have a better personality naturally!

[Scarlett]

I think the hard work comes in with growing yourself into a better person. I had (have) some really undesirable personality traits when we got married. Selfish, judgmental, critical. It is hard work to CHANGE those traits (or at least control them), but when you love someone and love your marraige you do that work. I am still doing that work!

So maybe it is easier and less work if you have a better personality naturally!

 

:iagree:

[Mom-ninja.]

I wouldn't place more value on an effortless arrangement. Easier doesn't automatically mean better.

 

 

Likewise, if people say they put "hard work" into their marriage it doesn't mean their marriage is better than a marriage that is effortless.

 

My marriage is real. It is not a fantasy in my head, yet it's not hard.

[Anne in CA]

 

I'm sure there are many married couples who are naturally well-matched and, for them, marriage does not take as much hard work. Marriage has taken hard work for me...as much as because of who I am as who my husband is.

 

:iagree:

This is my experience.

 

Over looking bad behavior, verbal or physical abuse, or substance abuse is not the hard work that marriage is. Sometimes I am afraid that people in the middle of these situations think that this is the hard work of marriage.

 

In our family, the hard work of our marriage is overcoming the baggage that both of us brought from families that were not healthy. That is not the same thing as overlooking genuinely wrong behavior.

[susankenny]

IMO people that have successful marriage apply effort. It is not luck. It does not magically happen. Marriage requires wise choices, maturity, and selflessness. It requires both partners giving. I think divorce rate is high because this is not easy for some people. Or sometimes, it is only one person in the marriage doing all of the work. So, I do feel that marriage takes effort (or work). That doesn't mean it's exhausting or laborious, just that it requires intention. Over time, it just becomes habit for most, just as ill-communication and disrespect become habit in other marriages.

 

 

Susan

[LucyStoner]

I think people are using hard work as a synonym for effort and commitment when they say that. A good marriage may be easy and make life easier but it is not usually effortless.

[susankenny]

I think people are using hard work as a synonym for effort and commitment when they say that. A good marriage may be easy and make life easier but it is not usually effortless.

 

I agree.

 

I actually get annoyed when I have friends refer to my marriage as an exception. They insinuate what we have is unusual and lucky. It kind of irks me that they give credit to "chance" and not the fact that Grey & I have an amazing marriage because we created one. Most relationships start off the same - with mushy feelings and rose colored glasses. Falling in love is fairly easy. Staying in love takes effort. It's intentional.

 

Susan

[KidsHappen]

It means not both having break downs at the same time and if you do figring out how to muddle through until someone takes a turn for the better.

[Scarlett]

I agree.

 

I actually get annoyed when I have friends refer to my marriage as an exception. They insinuate what we have is unusual and lucky. It kind of irks me that they give credit to "chance" and not the fact that Grey & I have an amazing marriage because we created one. Most relationships start off the same - with mushy feelings and rose colored glasses. Falling in love is fairly easy. Staying in love takes effort. It's intentional.

 

Susan

 

Intentional yes. But until you have lived a bad one you really can't understand that some marriages are more work than they are worth. :tongue_smilie:

[susankenny]

Intentional yes. But until you have lived a bad one you really can't understand that some marriages are more work than they are worth. :tongue_smilie:

 

Well. This is my second marriage, so I actually do think I understand. My first husband did not want to "work" at it, so it failed.

 

 

Susan

[Tess in the Burbs]

Having had a marriage fall apart and am now in a better state years later to me it means you can't sit back and not do all the things you did when dating. Look nice. Notice everything. Listen and comment and be interested in everything. Like when you were dating. We become complacent in our relationship and stop seeing the person for who their are. We stop doing the things they liked/preferred. We have many other distracting things going on with our families and this person whom you once adored is often ignored.

 

We change and if both parties aren't talking and sharing daily you won't know they are unhappy. I do think too many adults just make choices to move on rather than tell the person they once loved how they feel for fear of hurting them. But honestly is an absolute must in a marriage! I welcome the criticism b/c without it I may not realize I have been snapping at everyone around me for over a week. I may not realize I have worn the baggy sweats for months. I may not realize my husband has spent more time out doing his hobbies without his family for months. Drifting apart happens over time but we often don't realize it and by then it's often too late.

 

Coming back to a starting point and focusing on the relationship for both parties is hard. Neither usually hits the lows/highs at the same time. To ask a spouse to dig deep in a low spot when they have given up on the relationship is hard, but harder for the spouse to try.

 

We have been there and I can say it's worth starting over and making the relationship a priority. But it doesn't take long to slip into old habits. We have to continually make those connections to keep it fun. It's work to exercise, eat right, keep up with all the chores and schooling and running kids around, paying attention to your husband and look good while doing it...don't forget the smile on your face! For me, it's about the honesty...have I lived up to his expectations? Has he lived up to mine? Usually one of us is lacking in some way and without communication we wouldn't know.

 

But the work can be fun....but it takes balance to get it all done and please everyone. You have to put yourself first and then balance the rest.

[justLisa]

Marriage has been the easiest and most comforting thing in my life. I don't think I've ever thought of it as work or even too much effort.

 

DH and I are well matched and pretty much never even argue.

[I.Dup.]

The only time our marriage has been hard is when it's been really awful, because one or both of us just didn't care. We married young and have gone through a lot of wild times.

 

Right now we are in a patch of awesome, and we go through that on and off, more "on" the older we get. It takes no work at all. We do mesh together really well, agree on most things, and my dh is so laidback and kind that he is very easy to get along with (and he thinks I'm awesome too, which amazes me but hey :D)

[pdalley]

I wonder if there's a miscommunication somewhere.

 

I mean, to me, my marriage takes effort, in terms of time and attention. It doesn't exist in a vaccuum. It's not digging a ditch w/a spoon kinda work, it's not heavy, or oppressive, but it doesn't just exist w/out tending either.

 

:iagree:

Yeah, I'm wondering if were using the term 'work' in different ways.

 

Now I'm going to cry because he's going with the boys to the Youth Rally this weekend and not be here in case I want to tell him something off the wall. :crying: