Jean in Newcastle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ds14 probably needs braces. I called around to various orthodontists. I scheduled one appointment for today. I was told that the initial consultation was free, including panoramic x-rays and one single x-ray of his bite. After the orthodontic consultation and then the financial disclosure, I told them that I wanted to check out a couple of other orthodontists. They told me "Sure", but while the x-rays were free, that's only if they stay in our office. If you want to take them out of our office they are $75 a piece! So I would have to pay $150 if I want to get other opinions/quotes! So now what? Can I risk exposing my ds14 to more x-rays to get x-rays somewhere else? Do I have to go with these guys? Do I have to suck it up and give them the (extortion) money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Did the paper work say that? If not, I would fight it and maybe give a hint to a local news or newspaper that loves to expose bait and switchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeetime Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hmm, I don't think it's a "bait and switch", I think it's perfectly reasonable. They did a free consult, which included x-rays so that the orthodontist could give you accurate information. Why should they have to give you those x-rays, which cost them money, so that you can shop competitors? Most likely, every ortho from whom you would like an opinion will give you a free consult including x-rays... so you don't really need to purchase them. And I wouldn't worry about exposing my kid to a few more dental x-rays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hmm, I don't think it's a "bait and switch", I think it's perfectly reasonable. They did a free consult, which included x-rays so that the orthodontist could give you accurate information. Why should they have to give you those x-rays, which cost them money, so that you can shop competitors? Most likely, every ortho from whom you would like an opinion will give you a free consult including x-rays... so you don't really need to purchase them. And I wouldn't worry about exposing my kid to a few more dental x-rays. :iagree: I wouldn't assume the x-rays would be yours to keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think it's going to be standard that they won't GIVE you the x-rays to take with you after a free consultation. So, I don't really think it was a bait and switch, or unethical. However, I wouldn't stay there just because they have done x-rays. I would get more opinions and see what they can do without x-rays. Do you have x-rays from your dentist that other orthodontist could use for an estimate? Then, when you pick one, they can do their own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peach Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Doesn't your regular dentist have x-rays that you could use to get other opinions? When we've had ortho referrals, it's been after their regular dentist has taken x-rays, including panoramic. That dentist will send them on to the ortho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmom Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't know-I think it seems fair. I don't think a business should be expected to give me something for free so I can then take it around to their competitors so I can price shop. The x-rays and consultation were free, but copies of the x-rays are not. My dentist charges at least $75 per x-ray and that is for in-house use. Would you have to pay for the x-rays at other orthodontists? If so, I would just pay it, if not, I don't think it would be unreasonably risky to have him get another set. I would also ask if the money could be applied to any treatments if we did decide to use their office, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't see it as a bait and switch. They didn't charge you anything and they don't owe you anything other than their opinion about what needs to be done, and not the xrays they took at their expense. As I see it, why should they pay for xrays to be used by their competion? The choice is yours: pay for the xrays and take them with you, or have them redone at another orthodontist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think it's reasonable. When I did the rounds on consults, only one of the orthos bothered with x-rays. Another wanted to work up an impression. Another stated up front that it would cost $XX to work up a more precise idea of what treatment would entail -- as I recall, the money would've gone towards impressions. No clue if we would've then owned the little model of her mouth and could've toted it around to other offices. Frankly, we were able to make reasonable decisions without the x-rays. The orthos we talked to were just incredibly different in their philosophies of how to go about moving teeth around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMCassandra Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Each office taking their own x-rays is pretty standard. Sorry, Jean : (. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) A couple of answers - 1. I had asked about what was included in the free examination on the phone when I first called them. I specifically had told them that I was going to get a couple of quotes (as recommended by people here). They had a perfect opportunity to explain it to me on the phone at that time. They did not. So I do feel tricked. 2. The x-rays are being paid for - by my insurance company. Whenever my insurance co. pays for any other x-rays at other dentists, I have always gotten free copies of the x-rays. 3. Nothing was in writing prior to today - it was all done on the phone when I "interviewed" them about what was involved. 4. Previous x-rays are 1 year old. The dentist did not want to do new x-rays because he said that if the orthodontist wanted to do his own that he didn't want ds exposed to more radiation. (Which explains my hesitation about more x-rays). 5. If the radiation is negligible, it may be a non-issue. Edited January 31, 2012 by Jean in Newcastle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If the insurance company is reimbursing them for the cost of the xrays, then I think you should have a right to them. If you can't get them directly, call the insurance company. They called the consult free. However, it appears that the consult simply does not require your co pay. That's not free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLG Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hmm, I don't think it's a "bait and switch", I think it's perfectly reasonable. They did a free consult, which included x-rays so that the orthodontist could give you accurate information. Why should they have to give you those x-rays, which cost them money, so that you can shop competitors? Most likely, every ortho from whom you would like an opinion will give you a free consult including x-rays... so you don't really need to purchase them. And I wouldn't worry about exposing my kid to a few more dental x-rays. :iagree: with the exception that I would worry about more X-rays.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) A couple of answers - 1. I had asked about what was included in the free examination on the phone when I first called them. I specifically had told them that I was going to get a couple of quotes (as recommended by people here). They had a perfect opportunity to explain it to me on the phone at that time. They did not. So I do feel tricked. What were they to explain to you when you told them you wanted to get several quotes? It sounds like they told you what they provided as a service for an initial consultation. You accepted what they offered. I wouldn't assume that the xrays were mine to take to other places for quotes. 2. The x-rays are being paid for - by my insurance company. Whenever my insurance co. pays for any other x-rays at other dentists, I have always gotten free copies of the x-rays. Why would your insurance company be paying for them if there were free with the initial consult? 3. Nothing was in writing prior to today - it was all done on the phone when I "interviewed" them about what was involved. 4. Previous x-rays are 1 year old. The dentist did not want to do new x-rays because he said that if the orthodontist wanted to do his own that he didn't want ds exposed to more radiation. (Which explains my hesitation about more x-rays). 5. If the radiation is negligible, it may be a non-issue. I don't see the ortho as doing bait and switch. They offered what they said they would. Edited January 31, 2012 by mom2samlibby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Be sure to consult with Dr. Joondeph. He's the best in the business in these parts. Bellevue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplain Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If your insurance company paid for these x-rays, I'd ask to have them transferred to your regular dentist, so they won't have to be re-done (for regular dental care). If they refuse that request, I'd call my insurance company and ask for their opinion on whether you are entitled to them. Your insurance company probably won't want to pay for duplicate x-rays, and they may require the orthodontist to agree to transfer them as a condition of reimbursement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hmm, I don't think it's a "bait and switch", I think it's perfectly reasonable. They did a free consult, which included x-rays so that the orthodontist could give you accurate information. Why should they have to give you those x-rays, which cost them money, so that you can shop competitors? Most likely, every ortho from whom you would like an opinion will give you a free consult including x-rays... so you don't really need to purchase them. And I wouldn't worry about exposing my kid to a few more dental x-rays. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ok....the insurance part makes things trickier. They aren't going to pay for x-rays at multiple places for multiple consults. Ours (not sure about orthodontic coverage) only covers one set per year. When I hear free consult--that means insurance isn't involved yet. I would call your insurance and ask them about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Our insurance only covers panoramic x rays once every three years, so we just paid for a set after dd13 finished having braces. The orthodontist wanted the new ones to compare with the original ones taken about two years ago when we started with the braces. So definitely be aware that the insurance company is NOT going to want to pay for more x rays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBeaks Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What I have encountered here is insurance only pays for one set, and that the doctor's office can indeed charge you for copies legally. It makes changing providers very expensive, which I believe is the whole point of the racket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 We shopped orthos without needing X-rays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebug42 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 On our consult in a similar situation, the insurance company was not billed for the x-rays until we decided to proceed with treatment. It is standard here that each ortho does their own x-rays, pictures, etc. I did not seek multiple opinions because I really liked our ortho and his treatment plan seemed very conservative and reasonable to me. I have not regretted that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ds14 probably needs braces. I called around to various orthodontists. I scheduled one appointment for today. I was told that the initial consultation was free, including panoramic x-rays and one single x-ray of his bite. After the orthodontic consultation and then the financial disclosure, I told them that I wanted to check out a couple of other orthodontists. They told me "Sure", but while the x-rays were free, that's only if they stay in our office. If you want to take them out of our office they are $75 a piece! So I would have to pay $150 if I want to get other opinions/quotes! So now what? Can I risk exposing my ds14 to more x-rays to get x-rays somewhere else? Do I have to go with these guys? Do I have to suck it up and give them the (extortion) money? Not sure where you are but two of our consults needed no xrays...they have been doing this so long that they told me the exact same thing as the ortho that had them done, I too was told it was free and that he took my insurance...after I decided to go with another ortho, I received a bill for $350! I refused to pay it and told him to submit it to my insurance, guess what, my insurance was not a plan they accepted. The office manager agreed what I was told, We will see where this goes...not a fan of these kinds of businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It isn't really a free consult if they are billing your insurance. :glare: If insurance is paying for them, they should be yours. If they did the x-rays for free, with no billing, I would not expect them to give them to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Can I risk exposing my ds14 to more x-rays to get x-rays somewhere else? How about carrying Xrays from your regular dentist to any forthcoming consultations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 How about carrying Xrays from your regular dentist to any forthcoming consultations? His regular dental x-rays are a year old. They want current ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 His regular dental x-rays are a year old. They want current ones. I don't have panoramic x-rays done annually. So a one year old panoramic is "current", isn't it? Or is this different for kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Doesn't your regular dentist have x-rays that you could use to get other opinions? When we've had ortho referrals, it's been after their regular dentist has taken x-rays, including panoramic. That dentist will send them on to the ortho. The situation would bother me. All three orthodontists we visited used year-old x-rays from our dentist. All three said that the first treatment visit would be for their own x-rays and other measurements and records. I would be disturbed by a "free consultation" that includes billing your insurance. That's not free. It's not really bait-and-switch if you understood insurance would be billed for the x-rays before they were taken, but it's not free either. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 I would be disturbed by a "free consultation" that includes billing your insurance. That's not free. It's not really bait-and-switch if you understood insurance would be billed for the x-rays before they were taken, but it's not free either. Well, I felt like the bait was that it was "free to me" (though not to my insurance) ie. no out-of-pocket costs. And the switch was that even though they are reimbursed for the x-rays by my insurance (which I obviously pay for), I don't have any rights to the films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKidAcademy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 But if your insurance pays for them, you ARE entitled to them. Call the insurance company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 But if your insurance pays for them, you ARE entitled to them. Call the insurance company. I'll do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 But if your insurance pays for them, you ARE entitled to them. Call the insurance company. Yes! Your dentist will want to see the x-rays too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkInTheBlue Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Jean, are you absolutely certain from their mouths that they are filing your insurance for the x-rays? They said they'd be filing? Just curious :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Jean, are you absolutely certain from their mouths that they are filing your insurance for the x-rays? They said they'd be filing? Just curious :) They said that they had an agreement with my insurance co. that the x-rays would be paid for by insurance but that would not affect me because they would be free to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkInTheBlue Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Again, curious. Did they tell you that before or after receiving the consultation and x-rays? Thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If insurance paid for them, they're yours. Otherwise, they belong to the practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Again, curious. Did they tell you that before or after receiving the consultation and x-rays? Thanks :) Before. Actually they told me twice. Once on the phone when I called to schedule the appointment (and asked lots of questions) and then again while they were walking me back to talk to the Orthodontist today at our appointment. It was only when I said that I wanted to actually take the x-rays to someone else for a second opinion/quote that they said, "Oh, they are only free and are yours as long as they remain in this office. If you take them out, they are $75 a piece." (for a total of $150) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkInTheBlue Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 They told you twice they would be charging your insurance or they told you twice it was all free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 They told you twice they would be charging your insurance or they told you twice it was all free? Both. The first time was after they had asked for my insurance info. on the phone, put me on hold and came back to tell me that the charge to the insurance co. was how they had it handled with my particular insurance co. (I have no idea how they handle it otherwise). The second time was just a comment while looking at my paperwork as we started to go back that "Oh it was with xyx insurance and that the x-ray was taken care of by them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom'sGirl Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 We checked out 5 orthodontists before we picked one. Two of them did free x-rays (they kept them), and the others just looked at what I brought from the regular dentist. I never put insurance info on any of the preliminary papers. We discussed our insurance (actually it is a union benefit), but I told them we would only give the numbers to whom we choose. To me free does not equal charging the insurance company. I do think it is reasonable for the dentist to charge for the x-rays to leave the office as long as they did not charge my insurance for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If your insurance company paid for these x-rays, I'd ask to have them transferred to your regular dentist, so they won't have to be re-done (for regular dental care).If they refuse that request, I'd call my insurance company and ask for their opinion on whether you are entitled to them. Your insurance company probably won't want to pay for duplicate x-rays, and they may require the orthodontist to agree to transfer them as a condition of reimbursement. :iagree: If your insurance paid for them then they should be yours. That's not free or at the ortho's expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Jean- If you are willing to come to Seattle I can recommend a truly free consult. She does it the old fashioned way, without xRays until you are a patient. Her exam and consult were significantly more comprehensive and detailed than any of the other quotes I got and her care is amazing. I got 4 opinions (3 free, 1 with a modest fee) before I found the right fit. I was very picky as I am an 31 year old grown a@@ woman with a mouth full of metal for a complicated case. Bonus- this ortho is extremely modest on the fees. That said, if they billed your insurance for those then they must give them to you. Honestly, in WA state I think they need to give you your whole record on request. I don't think the "only in our office thing" sounds legit. Did they advertise it as a free consult? One guy I saw was great but I did not go with him (he was my second choice) and he splits his practice between Seattle and Mercer Island. Here is his website: http://www.u-ortho.com/ He did not bill my insurance for anything and in fact refused to charge me for a small retainer that he fit for me after surgery elsewhere even though I told him that I was going elsewhere (I called and offered payment out of pocket because when he fit the retainer we both thought he would be my orthodontist). Edited February 1, 2012 by kijipt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 :iagree: If your insurance paid for them then they should be yours. That's not free or at the ortho's expense. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What I have encountered here is insurance only pays for one set, and that the doctor's office can indeed charge you for copies legally. It makes changing providers very expensive, which I believe is the whole point of the racket. In WA state where the OP is, you are entitled to your medical records with only a modest copying fee (most places don't charge). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 2. The x-rays are being paid for - by my insurance company. Whenever my insurance co. pays for any other x-rays at other dentists, I have always gotten free copies of the x-rays. Then they are yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Not reading all replies, someone may have mentioned this already, but in our experience, x-rays have never been part of an initial consultation, certainly not a panorex. Also, I don't think they did anything wrong by not handing you x-rays to take your business elsewhere. What they did for you was a courtesy in the hope you would choose their office. You wouldn't expect to use a Target gift card at WalMart, kwim? ETA - Okay, seeing that they billed your insurance company for the X-rays changes things. What you got was no free consultation. That complicates things, and also makes me wonder about this doctor's integrity. As I said above, with three teens and state to state moves, we've seen quite a few orthos and not one needed X-rays for an initial consultation. Once the doc took a look, they prepared a cost estimate based on our insurance plan, and then, once we decided on a provider, and on the first official visit did a workup including X-rays and impressions. That diagnostic workup averaged $250. In all the interactions, during treatments, between ortho, dentist, and oral surgeon, we have never been charged a fee for medical records. Most images are digital these days and they just email them where needed. Edited February 1, 2012 by AuntieM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Wow. You really expect the orthodontist to give you the x-rays to take to a competitor, for free, too? That's bonkers, IMHO. If you want the x-rays, pay up. It's only fair. Actually, very generous, as they GAVE AWAY their time & opinion already. ETA: I agree that since they billed insurance, the records "belong" to you. However, a reasonable copying fee is allowed. I'd imagine up to $50 to copy x-rays. Or, under $20 if they are digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 But,....since the xrays have already been paid for by the ins. company the ortho practice is making themselves out to be cheap/opportunistic/something? by not just handing them over. They have been PAID FOR. The whole "we charge $75 copying fee" is just an in-house rule that they made up, most likely to discourage people from shopping around. IMO and IME anyone who is afraid of having people shop around usually has a reason for it. You are likely to find offices that are easier to work with when you do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 But,....since the xrays have already been paid for by the ins. company the ortho practice is making themselves out to be cheap/opportunistic/something? by not just handing them over. They have been PAID FOR. The whole "we charge $75 copying fee" is just an in-house rule that they made up, most likely to discourage people from shopping around. IMO and IME anyone who is afraid of having people shop around usually has a reason for it. You are likely to find offices that are easier to work with when you do! :iagree: Also, none of the orthos we met with needed xrays up front, nor did any of them try to charge our insurance for anything. That didn't come until we had agreed on a treatment plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 On the whole x-ray radiation thing, the question is whether they were digital (with a sensor) or regular. If they were digital, then the radiation was WAY lower than the old kind, like 90% lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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