How would you feel if a co op teacher/friend said...

[Melinda in VT]

How would I feel?

 

Embarrassed

Exasperated (how many times have we talked about this?!)

 

 

I think the teacher's response was appropriate, and I absolutely would not have called to complain.

[Jennifer3141]

How would I feel?

 

Embarrassed

Exasperated (how many times have we talked about this?!)

 

 

I think the teacher's response was appropriate, and I absolutely would not have called to complain.

 

:iagree:

 

And at outside classes, my kids have ONE chance. If they blow it for some reason and disrupt others, I pull would pull them out and make them sit by me. So far, I've never had to do that. The "mom eye" gets them every time. :D

[SBP]

Truthfully, I would have been so mad at my son that he was asked more than once to be quiet that I wouldn't have cared what the teacher said. We do not use shut up in our house. (I am not naive enough to believe that my children have not said it to each other, though.)

 

My son has Add/ADHD. You better believe, at 11, he is still responsible for controlling his mouth.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

My ADD kid would have been in so much trouble when he got home that any embarrassment suffered at the teacher's hands would have paled into insignificance. I can't even imagine asking the teacher for an apology in that situation.

 

SBP

[Shellydon]

Truthfully, I would have been so mad at my son that he was asked more than once to be quiet that I wouldn't have cared what the teacher said. We do not use shut up in our house. (I am not naive enough to believe that my children have not said it to each other, though.)

 

My son has Add/ADHD. You better believe, at 11, he is still responsible for controlling his mouth.

 

 

This. I would not have been upset at the teacher at all.

[Carol in Cal.]

I would not have used that phrase; however, I would not have been quite as patient either.

 

I would have told him twice to be quiet. If there were a third incident, I would have called him up to the front and quietly told him, "I have asked you to be quiet twice already, and you are still talking out of turn. This is unacceptable. If I need to speak with you about this again this week, there will be immediate consequences."

 

If it happened again, he would be outside, turned over to his mother or the adminstration, and he would have to apologize personally to me and commit to another behavior pattern.

 

I don't accept disruptions of those children who are trying to behave appropriately and learn quietly.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Would not even be on my radar as inappropriate.

 

 

IMO, a mountain has been made out of what would not even be considered a molehill in our home.

 

We don't curse around here, but your kid had been told multiple times to be quiet and at age 11 it was reasonable that he could have just shut his trap, already!! :glare:

 

Sorry, I just don't think that co-op teachers, Sunday school teachers, etc. need to forever tiptoe around delicate snowflakes who won't follow directions.

 

ETA: I have AD/HD, so I understand what a challenge it is to shut your pie hole. I do. But,...the only person who was at fault here was your son. IMO, an apology is due the teacher. Another one, for asking for an apology in the first place.

Edited September 18, 2011 by ThatCyndiGirl

[74Heaven]

We didn't call fishing for an apology. We called:

1) To apologize

2) To resolve the situation

3) To communicate. This is a friend - I don't take friends lightly and I don't let things build up to become a problem later.

4) We were clear that ds was in the wrong with his behavior and we started with that fact. My son gave a heartfelt apology.

 

My "language filter" determines if the language in question is something that I want to hear kids say to each other. The phrase in question - no - not even if the other child is being boorish or talking too much.

 

I believe the teacher's language was wrong. I thought it was a bad example for the kids. I thought that it could turn into a problem if it continued (for the co op). I explained to my son that the teacher's reaction (apology or non apology) wasn't his concern. It was his job to apologize for his behavior and explain to her how her words affected him.

 

I teach a lot, am a 10+ year youth group leader and work with kids in many other ways. I *know* how kids are. There are no perfect kids at co op or anywhere else. None. Zero. All can provide teachers problems. I have a top student in one of my classes that doesn't do his homework.

 

I felt that the way you handle a problem is to communicate. Let her know what I am feeling/thinking and ask her the same.

 

She will *not* walk on eggshells. This particular woman is very confident and very straightforward. She has taught my son for 1.5 years and loves him. That figured into my decision.

 

lisaj, thanks for weighing in :

[74Heaven]

I wonder why so many homeschool moms feel the need to point out what they deem as inappropriate behavior towards their children by other adults. Really...these kids are going to have to learn that others will be in authority over them at some point. Mommy can't always jump in and make it better.

 

It's an embarrassment to the homeschool community, imo. Unless an adult has been abusive or threatened/harmed a child, why get involved? Why not let the kid grow up and take the lumps?

 

I am invested in the co op. I am a leader there. I believe adults at co op are role models for students. If you read my OP you'll see that my son came to me with a problem and I helped him sort it out. For as much as an 11yo could, I helped my son work thru the problem individually. I thought he did extremely well.

 

His behavior was *wrong* and he apologized to the teacher. There was no "you are a victim" mentality. In fact, the mentality was, "you have a problem, let's work on it." (all sides)

 

I helped my son see his error. At the beginning, he shared the opinion of some posters that his bad behavior was excused by her bad behavior (his logic). (IOW, he felt - as children often do - that he should not be blamed since there was an equal negative reaction to his action.)

 

No, we are not an embarrassment to the homeschool community when people parent.

 

Lisaj

[Lawana]

<snip>We talked it over, I kept him on the phone and we called her. My son started by apologizing for his talking, not obeying. (I had hoped that would prompt and apology but it did not. She was gracious and forgiving and affirmed her affection for my son, his smarts, etc.) So I had my son go ahead and explain how he felt when she said the "shut...trap" phrase to him. He used words like "I felt it was rude and I felt disrespected."

 

She was gracious and seemed to understand that it was a bad choice or words in a co op class setting. But she didn't offer that perspective until we talked a little more. But I've heard her talk like that before in an adult relating-a-story context - so I am wondering if she thinks saying those words to a kid in co op is no big deal?<snip>

 

 

 

We didn't call fishing for an apology. We called:

1) To apologize

2) To resolve the situation How was it left unresolved? If you were not expecting an apology, then I don't see the problem.

3) To communicate. This is a friend - I don't take friends lightly and I don't let things build up to become a problem later.

4) We were clear that ds was in the wrong with his behavior and we started with that fact. My son gave a heartfelt apology.

<snip>

 

You claim posters did not read the original post carefully. I submit they did.

[Jennifer3141]

You claim posters did not read the original post carefully. I submit they did.

 

I did. I read the OP's post and I still believe she was in the wrong. There's NO way in the world I would have called the teacher's attention to losing patience with a child of mine that acted like this. I would still be stinging from embarressment over the child's behavior!!!

 

Unless someone lets forth a stream of profanities, if my child acts like a loud mouth and probably impedes other people's ability to get the maximum from the activity, by all means stop them. I consider our outside activities and opportunities too important to squander and I believe that other families feel the same.

[Jan in SC]

We talked it over, I kept him on the phone and we called her. My son started by apologizing for his talking, not obeying. (I had hoped that would prompt and apology but it did not. She was gracious and forgiving and affirmed her affection for my son, his smarts, etc.) So I had my son go ahead and explain how he felt when she said the "shut...trap" phrase to him. He used words like "I felt it was rude and I felt disrespected."

Lisaj mom to 5

 

How is this not fishing for an apology? You state that you hoped it would prompt one from her.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think this is one case where the OP should have attached a JAWM (Just Agree With Me) label to her thread title.

[silliness7]

My vote is "no big deal". Sorry.

I didn't respond on the other co-op thread. I DO think the co-op teacher that said the f-word was totally out of line. THAT is a big deal, to me.

 

Shut your trap is no different than shut your mouth in my eyes. Yes it is a little bit more forceful than be quiet or stop talking. But if kids aren't listening, sometimes you have to be more forceful.

 

Shut up would have been rude, imo. (although I have been known to say that to my own kids -not other people's kids- yikes!)

[annandatje]

I think this is one case where the OP should have attached a JAWM (Just Agree With Me) label to her thread title.

 

I was wondering what JAWM meant. The first google hit was Junior Achievment of Western Massachusetts.

[Jennifer3141]

My vote is "no big deal". Sorry.

I didn't respond on the other co-op thread. I DO think the co-op teacher that said the f-word was totally out of line. THAT is a big deal, to me.

 

Shut your trap is no different than shut your mouth in my eyes. Yes it is a little bit more forceful than be quiet or stop talking. But if kids aren't listening, sometimes you have to be more forceful.

 

Shut up would have been rude, imo. (although I have been known to say that to my own kids -not other people's kids- yikes!)

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I didn't respond on the other thread either but I also agree that the other co-op teacher was either a wee bit whacko or an idiot. And if she really did believe that she was preventing the OP's child from making a huge mistake bandying the F-bomb around, then she should have approached the PARENT with her theory and allowed the parent to set the rule. Actually dropping the real F-bomb was stupid to the nth degree.

[Word Nerd]

"Shut your trap" doesn't bother me at all or strike me as anything more than another way to say "be quiet." It's definitely not profanity. But you made your feelings known and your son apologized for his behavior, so it sounds like you can move on.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I was wondering what JAWM meant. The first google hit was Junior Achievment of Western Massachusetts.

 

I think that Mrs. Mungo coined it recently.

[annandatje]

My vote is "no big deal". Sorry.

I didn't respond on the other co-op thread. I DO think the co-op teacher that said the f-word was totally out of line. THAT is a big deal, to me.

 

Shut your trap is no different than shut your mouth in my eyes. Yes it is a little bit more forceful than be quiet or stop talking. But if kids aren't listening, sometimes you have to be more forceful.

 

Shut up would have been rude, imo. (although I have been known to say that to my own kids -not other people's kids- yikes!)

 

Neither incident could get me too excited although the f-word one was of more substance than this one. This one reeks of tattling to me. My kid would be shushing her friends as they tried to tell the story because she would not want to suffer the consequences of her disruptive behavior.

[texasmama]

I think that Mrs. Mungo coined it recently.

 

It is now one of the tags of this thread. I had no idea what it meant, either. I felt so uncool.:tongue_smilie:

[Lawana]

I think this is one case where the OP should have attached a JAWM (Just Agree With Me) label to her thread title.

This. Since she had already made the phone call that "wasn't fishing for an apology," but was not resolved by the outcome, I'm at a loss to explain what else she hoped to achieve other than a JAWM, as numerous posters stated that "shut your trap" was not at all offensive to them in the given circumstance, yet OP continued to justify her position, even claiming that others had not read her original post carefully.

[74Heaven]

How is this not fishing for an apology? You state that you hoped it would prompt one from her.

 

Thinking that the teacher might apologize was not *the reason* we called. It was an expectation ("hope") I had of my friend, our approach and my own intuition.

 

The fact is, we called to have ds apologize and discuss the situation. Whether an apology resulted or not was not our intent. I was trying to help ds work thru this.

 

There is no cause here to say that is fishing for an apology. We called to apologize not be apologized too.

 

lisaj

[Lawana]

There is no cause here to say that is fishing for an apology. We called to apologize not be apologized too.

 

lisaj[/quote\]

If that were the only reason you called, then why did your original post include the statement about not getting a hoped for apology?

[Serenade]

Well, I sometimes tell my son that he needs to shut his trap, but I wouldn't say that to someone else's child. Definitely not appropriate in a co-op setting. That said, I can't help but wonder if my son would benefit from someone else telling him this, someone who is not his mother. He does speak out inappropriately at times, and it is not rare for him to go on and on about something. Sometimes it drives me stark, raving mad, and I'm sure others have felt that way at times, too.

[74Heaven]

I think this is one case where the OP should have attached a JAWM (Just Agree With Me) label to her thread title.

 

Jean, my OP was to ask people whether or not they found those words unacceptable and inappropriate? Or a non-issue? (like a poll almost)

 

Instead, in true WTM board fashion, I had posters suggesting:

 

__people who intervened as I did could be "an embarrassment to the homeschool community".

__I made a mountain out of molehill

__my son was acting like a loudmouth

__I was teaching ds to be a victim

__my ds was the real problem; most would be embarrassed by my ds's behavior

__I was fishing for an apology

__I should stay in the classroom with my son

__I should make a behavior plan with the teacher

__I was not resolved by the outcome

 

I didn't want JAWM. Good thing, I got a whole lot more. LOL

 

Lisaj

[3peasinWa]

I just have to say I really respect how you had your son call her & talk to her about it. What a great life skill you have taught him!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean, my OP was to ask people whether or not they found those words unacceptable and inappropriate? Or a non-issue? (like a poll almost)

 

Instead, in true WTM board fashion, I had posters suggesting:

 

__people who intervened as I did could be "an embarrassment to the homeschool community".

__I made a mountain out of molehill

__my son was acting like a loudmouth

__I was teaching ds to be a victim

__my ds was the real problem; most would be embarrassed by my ds's behavior

__I was fishing for an apology

__I should stay in the classroom with my son

__I should make a behavior plan with the teacher

__I was not resolved by the outcome

 

I didn't want JAWM. Good thing, I got a whole lot more. LOL

 

Lisaj

 

But you do realize that the only reason why people would say or imply any of the above is because they do not see it as inappropriate, at least to the degree that you did, right? Having said that, there were some who did agree with you and felt like it was totally inappropriate and unacceptable.

[Lawana]

Jean, my OP was to ask people whether or not they found those words unacceptable and inappropriate? Or a non-issue? (like a poll almost)

 

Instead, in true WTM board fashion, I had posters suggesting:

 

__people who intervened as I did could be "an embarrassment to the homeschool community".

__I made a mountain out of molehill

__my son was acting like a loudmouth

__I was teaching ds to be a victim

__my ds was the real problem; most would be embarrassed by my ds's behavior

__I was fishing for an apology

__I should stay in the classroom with my son

__I should make a behavior plan with the teacher

__I was not resolved by the outcome

 

I didn't want JAWM. Good thing, I got a whole lot more. LOL

 

Lisaj

And when posters gave the opinion that it was no big deal, how did you respond?

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Well, I sometimes tell my son that he needs to shut his trap, but I wouldn't say that to someone else's child. Definitely not appropriate in a co-op setting. That said, I can't help but wonder if my son would benefit from someone else telling him this, someone who is not his mother. He does speak out inappropriately at times, and it is not rare for him to go on and on about something. Sometimes it drives me stark, raving mad, and I'm sure others have felt that way at times, too.

 

:iagree: Teaching him to buck up and take the correction instead of focusing on "I felt embarrassed/disrespected" is a wonderful like skill and will serve him well. Allowing a child to complain/whine/confront the teacher about her rebuke...... no. :001_huh:

[Imprimis]

I think the co-op instructor could have handled the situation in a much more professional manner.

 

It's not so much that I have a problem with the phrase, "shut your trap, mister," (although, I do find it on the rude side), but I do find it both unprofessional and a bit inappropriate considering the venue.

 

Like the op, I believe someone who opts for a position instructing children, should be expected to model more courteous behavior.

 

Of course a teacher SHOULD deal with a student causing disruption in a class, but, she could have walked directly up to the boy and told him he was disrupting the class, and if he didn't calm down/sit still/be quiet (whatever the case), he wouldn't be able to return to the class. And, then, follow through if need be.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Imprimis

[74Heaven]

There is no cause here to say that is fishing for an apology. We called to apologize not be apologized too.

 

lisaj[/quote\]

If that were the only reason you called, then why did your original post include the statement about not getting a hoped for apology?

 

Lawana - if you read my OP, I think you'll sense that I wasn't sure how to proceed. And that I cared about my friend and recognized my son's bad behavior. I was muddling thru how to deal/not deal with this.

 

My OP was giving brief background info. In the group of Christian friends/co op moms I hang around, we apologize when we think we were in error or said something wrong. Esp. if something really weighs on my mind, I'll look the other mom/child up and apologize or check in to see if I offended. (Most of the time, I haven't. But I try to recognize that people take things in all kinds of ways.)

 

When we called, I thought my friend would share my "not appropriate - I goofed" mindset and apologize. When she didn't, I began to realize that other families might not consider the "shut up" family of "be quiet" phrases as taboo. Hence, my OP to ask the Hive.

 

I had 2 general thoughts before we called:

...Either my friend either left co op w/o a backward thought about her statement to my son.

...Orrrr she would have thought of it several times but been too busy to look me or my son up to revisit it. Remember it wasn't on my radar all day. (My friend and I are both very busy teachers. I am so busy at co op, I barely even visit with other moms. If I do, our co op is very large, I may only talk to 4-5 of the 40+ moms.) IF the latter was the situation, I figured our phone call might prompt a "oh I was meaning to talk to you about that".....

 

Hope that helps. As I said in my OP, I wasn't looking for a big confrontation and in fact was reluctant to call. Bottom line, in the end, I thought it was worthwhile and the appropriate next step.

 

Per this thread, you will see a significant portion of replies on both sides - including the "not appropriate" side. It is a valid disagreement as to whether "shut your trap" belongs in a classroom setting.

 

lisaj

[74Heaven]

But you do realize that the only reason why people would say or imply any of the above is because they do not see it as inappropriate, at least to the degree that you did, right? Having said that, there were some who did agree with you and felt like it was totally inappropriate and unacceptable.

 

Yes, I do see that. In fact, my friend's reaction (and her off the cuff previous remarks to me adult-to-adult) got me thinking... "wow, for some people (and probably my friend/co op teacher), they would think saying "shut your trap" was just an attention-getting version of "be quiet". "

 

This was eye-opening to me in a Homeschool Co op setting. In my circle of friends, we don't talk that way. (really!)

 

Let me just add I was not offended when my friend said it to me adult-to-adult. It was the classroom, mentor, adult role model relationship status of a classroom where I felt the statement was inappropriate in that context.

 

My general standard there is that if I don't want my kids to say it to each other or to their friends - then I try not to say it either.

 

Regarding my laundry list of WTM input, you always get more than you pay for on the General Board!

 

Lisaj,

[74Heaven]

You claim posters did not read the original post carefully. I submit they did.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74Heaven

We didn't call fishing for an apology. We called:

1) To apologize

2) To resolve the situation How was it left unresolved? If you were not expecting an apology, then I don't see the problem.

3) To communicate. This is a friend - I don't take friends lightly and I don't let things build up to become a problem later.

4) We were clear that ds was in the wrong with his behavior and we started with that fact. My son gave a heartfelt apology.

<snip>

 

You claim posters did not read the original post carefully. I submit they did.

Lawana

 

Hi Lawana - I'm confused here.

 

Noting what you had in red ink above - we were calling to resolve who said what to whom & why & my son only had his and my perspective.........Prior to our telephone call we had an unresolved classroom interaction..... I had one side of the story, I had 3 concerned kids incl ds, I had questions on teacher's opinion on son's (already admitted by ds) talking-too-much & overall classroom behavior & I couldn't quite determine joking-or not-joking context, and I didn't think "shut your trap" was good teaching form or role-modeling.

 

I wanted son to handle it because I wasn't there, I wasn't inappropriate and the teacher/student relationship was the one I wanted to work on. He needed my help.

 

Not to mention, I thought this was character-building for my son. He had a problem with what she said to him (I concurred with him after talking it over that I didn't think that was a good thing to say either - & I concurred fully with the his understanding of the teacher's POV (*before* we called) that he had disobeyed/disrespected, etc.).

 

I wanted to teach my son if you have a problem with someone you own up to your part of the conflict and you talk it over with the other person to work through the problem.

 

Lisaj,

[Jean in Newcastle]

Regarding my laundry list of WTM input, you always get more than you pay for on the General Board!

 

 

 

People feel passionately about different issues. For you, it appears to be "correct speech" and careful modeling of "correct behavior". For me, it isn't. I like playing with language. I use slang and colloquialisms all the time with my students. I also value honesty of feeling and opinion over correct behavior. We talk about all sorts of subjects and look at them in light of the Bible (I'm a Bible teacher but not in a co-op). They respond to it by being "real" with me in a way that (according to them) they aren't with other teachers.

 

For others, respect of a teacher's position is paramount. Those people are equally passionate about showing respect in behavior and acceptance of correction from a teacher. I'm in that group. Even though I am pretty laid back in language and am pretty honest with my emotions, I ask for and get a high level of respect from my students.

 

I think what you got on this thread was the passionate but honest input of a wide range of people. Maybe it's another difference between how I see the world, but that's what I "pay for" when I post things here.

[kalanamak]

 

I wanted to teach my son if you have a problem with someone you own up to your part of the conflict and you talk it over with the other person to work through the problem.

 

Lisaj,

 

I want to teach my son to not have problems with such insignificant things, to buck up and carry on, to put things into perspective, to whistle a happy tune, to keep his eyes on the prize.

 

But, I've never been a fan of the everyone-in-a-circle-holding-hands-buying-the-world-a-coke, and I have depressingly intimate knowledge of how a morbid obsession with perfection in manners and religious belief can breed a homeschooler who has a rough adjustment to adult life.

[74Heaven]

I just have to say I really respect how you had your son call her & talk to her about it. What a great life skill you have taught him!!

 

Thank you. It was a very, very hard phone call for him. I wasn't sure he would be up to it but he did feel very strongly that the teacher shouldn't talk like that to anyone (i.e. he was passionate about that) and he has apologized before to other teachers (and wrote letters, etc.) for being disruptive - so it wasn't his first rodeo!

 

Part of the reason he was able to do it is because he knows the teacher well, knows she likes him and has a good rapport with her! (She has a very breezy, no-big-deal classroom and teacher-student style that probably goes hand in hand with saying things off the cuff!)

 

Lisa J

[sparrow]

 

Not to mention, I thought this was character-building for my son. He had a problem with what she said to him (I concurred with him after talking it over that I didn't think that was a good thing to say either - & I concurred fully with the his understanding of the teacher's POV (*before* we called) that he had disobeyed/disrespected, etc.).

 

I wanted to teach my son if you have a problem with someone you own up to your part of the conflict and you talk it over with the other person to work through the problem.

 

Lisaj,

 

This thread was still up from when I went to bed last night. I wasn't going to respond again, but I'm still so struck that your son told the teacher that he felt disrespected. Whether "shut your trap", said in a more breezy way, is worse than "be quiet", said aggressively, is a matter of semantics and opinion.

 

Your son was disruptive and it was dealt with. It should have been over. Your son felt hurt and embarrassed and you tried to soothe him by making what the teacher said to control him the issue.

 

The teaching moment here should have been "let it go". And now I'm going to let this thread go, because it is stressing me out.

Edited September 18, 2011 by sparrow

[nowimscrappin]

I want to teach my son to not have problems with such insignificant things, to buck up and carry on, to put things into perspective, to whistle a happy tune, to keep his eyes on the prize.

 

But, I've never been a fan of the everyone-in-a-circle-holding-hands-buying-the-world-a-coke, and I have depressingly intimate knowledge of how a morbid obsession with perfection in manners and religious belief can breed a homeschooler who has a rough adjustment to adult life.

 

:iagree:

A child is in a subordinate relationship to an adult in this environment. He was disrespecting her. Whether or not he liked or didn't like her language, she is the adult and the teacher and he was given several warning and then spoken to in a public forum in hopes he would respond to that. He was NOT disrespected, but disrespectful, and the life lesson here is not that he should have called the teacher to express HIS feelings, but this was 100% how he should have been addressing his BEHAVIOR. I don't think teaching an 11 year old to feel "disrespected" over a certain choice of words an adult uses is teaching him a good life skill - I agree with the above poster that all it will do it set him to not not be equipped to deal with other adults in life when he has to interact with them as an adult.

[Soror]

:iagree: Teaching him to buck up and take the correction instead of focusing on "I felt embarrassed/disrespected" is a wonderful like skill and will serve him well. Allowing a child to complain/whine/confront the teacher about her rebuke...... no. :001_huh:

:iagree: I think it is a good real life skill to realize sometimes you get corrected and have to learn to deal with that.

[unsinkable]

You've said such nice things about this woman that I can't believe you couldn't just say to yourself and your son, "Let's just move on."

 

Can't all her good qualities lead you to give her the benefit of the doubt? :confused:

[Murphy101]

:iagree: Teaching him to buck up and take the correction instead of focusing on "I felt embarrassed/disrespected" is a wonderful like skill and will serve him well. Allowing a child to complain/whine/confront the teacher about her rebuke...... no. :001_huh:

 

:iagree: adamently.

[Amy in NH]

How would you feel if a co op teacher said,

 

"You just need to shut your trap, mister" to your 11yo son when he was being overly enthusiastic and talking way too much and way too loud during an 8am science class at a Christian co op?

 

 

I haven't read the other replies, but my feeling is that I'd feel like my kid was being disrespectful, distracting, and downright rude, and probably taking advantage of the "friend of the family" aspect of the teacher (being too familiar). I'd apologize profusely to the friend/teacher and then have a good long talk with my ds about appropriate classroom behavior.

[angela in ohio]

There is no cause here to say that is fishing for an apology. We called to apologize not be apologized too.

 

lisaj

 

That is not at all how I read your OP. You said,

 

"I prayed and felt awful about calling my (new) friend on it, but felt I had to because I don't think those words should ever be said in a co op setting unless they are followed by "I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that.""

 

If you meant that you called for your dc to apologize, it didn't come through in your OP at all.

[2squared]

I would be curious if the OP discussed the situation with her dh, and what his response was? Dh's can provide great counsel, particularly with preteen boys.

[Whereneverever]

Thank you. It was a very, very hard phone call for him. I wasn't sure he would be up to it but he did feel very strongly that the teacher shouldn't talk like that to anyone (i.e. he was passionate about that) and he has apologized before to other teachers (and wrote letters, etc.) for being disruptive - so it wasn't his first rodeo!

 

Part of the reason he was able to do it is because he knows the teacher well, knows she likes him and has a good rapport with her! (She has a very breezy, no-big-deal classroom and teacher-student style that probably goes hand in hand with saying things off the cuff!)

 

Lisa J

 

I've watched this quietly until now- but he felt strongly she shouldn't talk that way to anyone? REALLY? She didn't swear, name call, ect. She's an adult. I feel strongly that other people's kids shouldn't correct me when I'm not incorrect.

 

I'd hazard that most adults feel that way. I can't fathom letting a kid be disruptive and then heap insult to injury by correcting the teacher, as well.

 

Ouch.

[Colleen in NS]

How would you feel if a co op teacher said,

 

"You just need to shut your trap, mister" to your 11yo son when he was being overly enthusiastic and talking way too much and way too loud during an 8am science class at a Christian co op?

 

Inappropriate always?

Just another way to say, "be quiet"?

 

I would have felt that the teacher was rude to have said it that way. To me, saying "shut your trap, mister" is humiliating to a child, whereas to say "Be quiet or face these consequences" allows him to learn to behave properly in class.

 

...they said the whole class got quiet and was upset/surprised that she said "those words".

 

I think this part is telling. Obviously it wasn't just your son who was shocked by the way she chose to say "be quiet." That would certainly cause me to think about speaking to the teacher. (as well as deal with my child's wrongdoing)

 

I prayed and felt awful about calling my (new) friend on it, but felt I had to because I don't think those words should ever be said in a co op setting unless they are followed by "I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that." I think they are a bad example to the kids and nothing we want to model.

 

I wasn't overly upset because I know this woman's heart; her commitment to the kids and she is a great lady. My son and I talked it over very well and I helped him see that she was stressed, he had disregarded her warnings and she didn't "mean" anything other than "be quiet". I helped him see her perspective and also recognize how his behavior was wrong.

 

We talked it over, I kept him on the phone and we called her. My son started by apologizing for his talking, not obeying. (I had hoped that would prompt and apology but it did not. She was gracious and forgiving and affirmed her affection for my son, his smarts, etc.) So I had my son go ahead and explain how he felt when she said the "shut...trap" phrase to him. He used words like "I felt it was rude and I felt disrespected."

 

She was gracious and seemed to understand that it was a bad choice or words in a co op class setting. But she didn't offer that perspective until we talked a little more. But I've heard her talk like that before in an adult relating-a-story context - so I am wondering if she thinks saying those words to a kid in co op is no big deal?

 

I think you handled it all the best you could. It's very obvious to me in all your posts that you had your son's, the teacher's, and the whole co-op's best interests at heart. And that you had considered all sides before making the call. :grouphug:

[beaners]

I would not have used that phrase; however, I would not have been quite as patient either.

 

I would have told him twice to be quiet. If there were a third incident, I would have called him up to the front and quietly told him, "I have asked you to be quiet twice already, and you are still talking out of turn. This is unacceptable. If I need to speak with you about this again this week, there will be immediate consequences."

 

If it happened again, he would be outside, turned over to his mother or the adminstration, and he would have to apologize personally to me and commit to another behavior pattern.

 

I don't accept disruptions of those children who are trying to behave appropriately and learn quietly.

 

Just musing here, but I wonder how many threads will be spawned in the next couple months where parents are furious that their child was called up to the front of the room. Wouldn't that be embarrassing?

[annandatje]

Just musing here, but I wonder how many threads will be spawned in the next couple months where parents are furious that their child was called up to the front of the room. Wouldn't that be embarrassing?

 

Yes, and there will be discussions of how the teacher behaved unprofessionally and could have privately disciplined the student to save face.

[catz]

Sounds like nothing to me. Those words have lost their meanings around here, and truly mean just the same as " please be quiet"

Now, had she said "shut the F* up", it would have been different. But 'shut your trap' is nothing.

 

Really, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I think you handled it fine, but I'm guessing when she said it, she probably felt she wasn't being respected either. Best choice of language? No. But I also think it's good for kids to know adults aren't perfect and anyone might react strongly at one time or another. Teachers are human.

 

Tone is important, and I don't know what happened before these words came out of her mouth, but I guess this doesn't sound super horrible to me and I'm not a big fan of the phrase "shut up".

[simka2]

I am reading this thread and I just am dumbfounded!!! I do not understand why you would want to teach your son to confront a teacher on such a petty issue. :confused:

 

Right now, my dh is in the very difficult position possibly leading to the termination of a single mother who works in his dept. She is being fired because she makes mountains out of everything! She takes offense to the slightest thing and has to confront those who offend her. It is so bad the no one will work with her. As a result she cannot get her work done. No one took the time to explain to her that not everything is worth confronting over. No one explained the concept of Boundaries; you can control yourself, but not others.

 

In the work world you do not get to confront your boss, because he used a tone you do not like or used words you deem as rude.

 

This was a great oppurtunity for your son to learn that there are consequences to his actions, others patience is limited, and even if you are spoken to harshly you show respect for those in authority over you.

 

I am in NO WAY saying adults or children should put up with abuse or unhealthy situations, but that is not what was going on. I am saying that kids should be taught to stand up for TRUE INJUSTICE, and to cope with, "I was embarressed and possibly treated a bit unfair, but I will move on with life."

 

The truth is, if your son had been behaving himself he would never have been confronted. He had complete control over being confronted or not, all he had to do was behave himself in class.

 

It sounds like you both are way to familiar with this teacher, and feel some sort of freedom to confront her. There is much truth in the old adage, "Familiarity breeds contempt."

[swellmomma]

I am reading this thread and I just am dumbfounded!!! I do not understand why you would want to teach your son to confront a teacher on such a petty issue. :confused:

 

Right now, my dh is in the very difficult position possibly leading to the termination of a single mother who works in his dept. She is being fired because she makes mountains out of everything! She takes offense to the slightest thing and has to confront those who offend her. It is so bad the no one will work with her. As a result she cannot get her work done. No one took the time to explain to her that not everything is worth confronting over. No one explained the concept of Boundaries; you can control yourself, but not others.

 

In the work world you do not get to confront your boss, because he used a tone you do not like or used words you deem as rude.

 

This was a great oppurtunity for your son to learn that there are consequences to his actions, others patience is limited, and even if you are spoken to harshly you show respect for those in authority over you.

 

I am in NO WAY saying adults or children should put up with abuse or unhealthy situations, but that is not what was going on. I am saying that kids should be taught to stand up for TRUE INJUSTICE, and to cope with, "I was embarressed and possibly treated a bit unfair, but I will move on with life."

 

The truth is, if your son had been behaving himself he would never have been confronted. He had complete control over being confronted or not, all he had to do was behave himself in class.

 

It sounds like you both are way to familiar with this teacher, and feel some sort of freedom to confront her. There is much truth in the old adage, "Familiarity breeds contempt."

 

:iagree: Well put