mom2denj Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) my dd is going to puclic high school this year and I am already fuming 3 weeks into it!! This weekend she was assigned a paper in her English 1 honors class. This morning she got to school and one of the girls in her class saw her in the courtyard and asked her if she did her paper. My dd said yes. The girl asked her if she could please read it over because she didn't get a chance to do hers and she just wanted to get an idea of what my dd wrote so that she can write hers during another class. My dd had two copies. Her first draft and her final draft, which were almost identical except for the few grammatical corrections she made on the final draft. My dd felt bad for her and let her read over her first draft and told her that she worked really hard on it and to NOT copy it. The girl promised. Well a few hours they are in English and the girl hands my dd's paper in to the teacher right in front of my dd. GRRRRRR!!!! My dd was so upset! She is very nice and very naive. She told the girl she was angry and the girl told her not to worry that if the teacher noticed that she was going to tell the teacher that they worked on it together. My daughter is scared to death to get into trouble. Would you as a parent: 1. Just blow it off and see what happens tomorrow. 2. Send an email to the teacher and explain the whole thing and let dd face retaliation from this girl? Edited September 8, 2011 by mom2denj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'd be going with option 2 so your daughter doesn't get embarrassed in class over this tomorrow or in trouble for something she didn't do. How nervy!!! How does your daughter want you to handle it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I would do number 2 but I would ask the teacher to try to make it look like the teacher somehow knew what the other girl was doing and not that your DD or you ratted the little plagiarizer out. :D Edited September 6, 2011 by Jennifer3141 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I would encourage your dd to go to the teacher and tell her what happened hopefully before the teacher reads them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Neither 1 nor 2. I would go in there in the morning and talk with my daughter and the teacher face to face. Your poor dd. Finding out that some people suck is a very hard lesson. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I would absolutely tell the teacher (I'd actually encourage my child to do it), before she's embroiled in a plagiarism mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I would absolutely tell the teacher (I'd actually encourage my child to do it), before she's embroiled in a plagiarism mess. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'd talk to the teacher ASAP. I had this happen to me in high school. It was a HUGE nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooketopia Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I'd go in WITH my daughter to explain the situation, and as soon as possible. If anything happens and the teacher thinks there's cheating or something like that going on, there can be a LOT of trouble. Take DD so she gets a feel for talking about stuff like this...have her do the talking, not you. You're just there for moral support and to protect her in case it goes down in a horrendous fiery crash, which is highly unlikely to happen, but humans can be surprisingly unreliable in their reactions. Just handing the paper over to the girl can be classified as helping the girl to cheat...let your daughter know that her papers are her property, and no one should be asking to see them. If the situation comes up again, she should just talk about the paper, not hand it over. And avoid being friends with this girl who has no qualms about lying and cheating! EDIT: I got to thinking about this a little more, and if it really had been my daughter, I would have scheduled a chat about how, by keeping her mouth shut when the girl turned in the paper, my daughter would have been condoning the other girl's actions. I expect my children to stand for truth and all those other virtuous qualities, and staying silent while something they know to be wrong is being done in front of them isn't too far off from committing the deed themselves. It wouldn't be a "you're bad" kind of talk, but just a "bad things happen when no one is willing to stand up for right" kind of talk. And then the whole subject of how to make something right again in case we mess up. Edited September 6, 2011 by MrsBrooke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Plagerism is taken very seriously with serious consequences. Your dd needs to deal with this before the teacher reads the papers and make it perfectly clear what happened. After the fact, the teacher may not even ask questions but give them both zeros instead. If the teacher does listen, he has no way of knowing who is telling the truth. In his eyes it is simply a he said/she said sort of situation. Your dd also needs to seriously consider this girl's intentions. The girl had no way of knowing that your dd had two copies, meaning that she porbably intended to take your dd's only copy and turn it in as her own leaving your dd without any paper at all. Your dd needs to personally call her out on this in the most obvious way. Question what the said, the sources she used, what her conclusion was and so on until it becomes perfectly clear that she did not write the paper. Of course, you should back her on this but she needs to be the one to make it clear that she will not be taking any nonsense from others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) Your daughter needs to do the talking, not you. She's the one who got herself into the situation. I would encourage her to email her teacher NOW. ETA: She can email the teacher and request a conference tomorrow. That's the easy part. The harder part is what she's going to have to do next, and that is come up with a way to deal with the girl in the future. The girl stole your dd's paper and got away with it (at least in her eyes) and your dd needs to be prepared for the next time. And it could get ugly when Miss Plagiarism doesn't get her way. :( Edited September 6, 2011 by Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'd absolutely contact the teacher.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'd go in WITH my daughter to explain the situation, and as soon as possible. Take DD so she gets a feel for talking about stuff like this...have her do the talking, not you. You're just there for moral support and to protect her in case it goes down in a horrendous fiery crash, All of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothersweets Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Wow! That other girl has some NERVE! Please talk to the teacher right away. I'd also be having a big talk with my dd - make sure she can stand up for herself and not let this other girl make her feel as though SHE (your dd) did something wrong. When the other girl gets in trouble for this, she needs to remember that it is her own fault for not doing the assignment and then stealing your dd's paper! What does your dd think of all this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolehall Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Wow. I had this happen to me in Seminary. As soon as I knew what had happened, I went directly to my instructor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Your DD needs to talk to the teacher, and it probably wouldn't hurt if you went with her for moral support. Plagiarism is generally taken very, very seriously, and it's not something you can just let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Wow. I do believe they will not be in class together shortly. I'm wondering what consequences are coming and how firm they will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I would have expected my dd to speak up right away and tell the instructor what happened. If it was more comfortable she could have waited until the end of class and spoke to the instructor as everyone else was leaving. She should not be doing anything to help that girl cover cheating. Since that ship has already sailed, I would encourage her to send an email to her teacher explaining the situation, if they have school emails. If not, she should make arrangements to discuss it with him. Does he have office hours? That could be a good time to discuss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2denj Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Thanks everyone! Well, because we knew that the teacher would be reading over the papers tonight, I went ahead and sent a fully explained email to her a few minutes ago. I did let my dd know that although her intentions were good, that she may also face consequences. I cannot believe the girl had the nerve to do this! They are not friends, they are just in the same class. I feel bad for my dd. I hope that she can find a way to stand up to this girl so there is no future "problems". It just really suc*s that she had to start off her experience in public school like this. =( She choose to go to PS, but she is a people pleaser and I knew this would be a problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2denj Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 I would have expected my dd to speak up right away and tell the instructor what happened. If it was more comfortable she could have waited until the end of class and spoke to the instructor as everyone else was leaving. She should not be doing anything to help that girl cover cheating. Since that ship has already sailed, I would encourage her to send an email to her teacher explaining the situation, if they have school emails. If not, she should make arrangements to discuss it with him. Does he have office hours? That could be a good time to discuss it. As an adult this would be easy to do. As a teenager and new to a school, trying to survive, not so easy. She was in complete shock and had no idea what to do. =( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'd email the teacher immediately with the story, saying I was coming in the next day (before school?) to be present while dd speaks to her (the teacher) about the situation. I might even copy her guidance counselor and the administrator in charge of her grade on the email. I would not tell dd she had to tell the teacher and then leave it to her to do it. This is too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I would absolutely tell the teacher (I'd actually encourage my child to do it), before she's embroiled in a plagiarism mess. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2denj Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'd email the teacher immediately with the story, saying I was coming in the next day (before school?) to be present while dd speaks to her (the teacher) about the situation. I might even copy her guidance counselor and the administrator in charge of her grade on the email. I would not tell dd she had to tell the teacher and then leave it to her to do it. This is too big. :iagree:I sent the email myself because I knew she would be reading the papers tonight. High school is so different. You can not just go up and see the teachers, you have to make an appt. that is why I sent the email tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Your daughter needs to speak .to her teacher and the other girl needs serious disciplinary action. At my school she would be expelled and so would your daughter if she doesn't tell the truth about what happened. Poor thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I agree she needs to talk to her teacher. There could be serious consequences for her and I hope that by coming forwards right away there are not. Further, I would arm her with the tools to avoid this or anything similar in the future. I would have her read this book http://www.amazon.com/Doing-Honest-Work-College-Plagiarism/dp/0226484734 and Have her review the school's policy on plagiarism and cheating/Honor Code. Sadly, while she obviously did not know this, what she did is considered cheating by most schools - giving someone your completed paper the day that it is due is asking for trouble and there is no legit reason for someone to ask to see your paper "to get ideas" unless it is an honest to goodness group project. It can be hard to prove her account of what happened. The other girl is clearly more int he wrong (and deserves serious disciplinary action, like being bounced out of the honors program and a failing grade) but what your daughter did was also wrong. The other girl is obviously a convincing liar, she duped your daughter. No sharing work or papers. Just say no and all that. It is ok to show someone how to do something (explaining a math equation or such like), not ok to do it for them or give them your original work. Hopefully this situation will make her more cautious in the future. Edited September 6, 2011 by kijipt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 It is difficult to tell from the way you wrote the story but IF the girl said she wanted to read your DD's paper to get ideas for her paper and your DD gave her the paper for that purpose, that would be an honor code violation for both the girls at my son's school. It's kind of a gray line. Anyway, I am glad you took action today. Hopefully your DD won't get in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I would encourage your dd to go to the teacher and tell her what happened hopefully before the teacher reads them. THIS. This happened to me--this EXACT thing--when I was a sophomore at an "elite" private school in NYC. I went to the girl, and said what she did was unacceptable. Then I went to the teacher. He already had figured out what had happened and she got in trouble. She was actually pretty embarrassed and didn't "retaliate" in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 the teacher will notice the papers are similar whether you give a heads up or not. (I probably would, but I understand you are concerned for your daughter's treatment by her peers.) It is up to the teacher to decide what to do, if anything. (and don't bet against it being nothing.) sadly, and enlightening experience for your dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Thanks everyone! Well, because we knew that the teacher would be reading over the papers tonight, I went ahead and sent a fully explained email to her a few minutes ago. There is no guarantee the teacher will see that email before class. I would have your dd go to her first thing in the morning and ask to speak to her and explain the situation briefly, adding that you, her mom, sent an email with more details. I would hate for the teacher to not read the email and call out the OP's dd in class! I had a professor in college walk up to 6 girls and say to each one, "I need to see YOU outside in the hall right now." They weren't sitting all together in the class. The room was dead quiet and all the girls were embarrassed beyond belief as they stood up to go into the hall. No one knew for sure they had copied one essay but it was SO obvious based on the explosive expression on his face as he asked them to go out into the hall. You just don't know how this teacher might handle this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovin Learnin Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Is this your dd's first experience with institutionalized schooling? If so, explain that to the teacher and chalk it up to a learning experience. You just can't trust anyone with your work because many ps kids have been taught (or maybe just allowed) to find ways to minimize the work load. In a more innocent way that can be as simple as working as a group. For those less honest students it can be finding creative ways to copy/cheat. If your dd is not friends with this girl I would take it as a compliment. Your dd has probably already stood out in class, which is why the other girl asked if she could see her paper in the first place. Hopefully the teacher will understand and go light on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 As an adult this would be easy to do. As a teenager and new to a school, trying to survive, not so easy. She was in complete shock and had no idea what to do. =( :grouphug: I understand how hard it can be. My dd started her freshman year in a new school district in a completely different county and with a completely different culture than her old school. Unfortunately by not speaking up right away the teacher may not accept that she was not part of the cheating. Teachers hear from parents trying to cover for their kids all the time. I hope the teacher is understanding, puts it down to her new situation and cuts her some slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 This is very serious. If I were you, I would go in with your daughter tomorrow morning and allow her to explain what happened. That way you will have a clear understanding as to what transpired at the meeting and your daughter will probably feel more comfortable and confident with your presence. I would then want to know the school's policy for this sort of situation. At my son's high school, the other girl would be suspended, and as long as your daughter didn't give the paper knowing it would be copied, your daughter would be fine. Does your daughter have a group of buddies to hang out with yet? If not, that's the second thing I'd work on so she can find out about the who's who and what's what at the school. Ugh. Sorry to hear you have to deal with something like this so soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Ordinarily I'm of the opinion that high school and college students need to work out their own issues. In this situation, though, I think you did the right thing. I helped one of my English professors grade quite a few papers in college, and unless the topic is so incredibly narrow that all the papers are nearly identical anyway, the teacher will notice. And a plagiarism accusation can ruin a person's academic career. If your dd wants to go to college, she's going to want letters of recommendation from her teachers, and you definitely don't want them all thinking of her as "that girl who got caught cheating or something" from now until graduation. I'd probably call the school first thing in the morning and try to actually talk to the teacher, if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Did you hear back from the teacher? I hope he had a chance to read the email before your daughter went to school today! It's good YOU contacted him because with the girls it's one person's word against another's. At least you can say "I know my daughter wrote that paper," whereas the other mother can't say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Update? Were the papers typed? Didn't your DD have her name on her paper? I am assuming it wasn't hand written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 :iagree:I sent the email myself because I knew she would be reading the papers tonight. High school is so different. You can not just go up and see the teachers, you have to make an appt. that is why I sent the email tonight. In that case, I'd be in the office *first thing when they opened the doors*, asking to see an administrator. I think the key to this is getting ahead of any disciplinary action that might be taken. Be prepared to accept the fact that they may not have the same opinion about your daughter's culpability in the situation. She's going to have to get really street-wise (so to speak) really quickly. Passing along her paper in the first place was completely misguided, and she may receive some rather harsh consequences whether or not she was an active participant in what happened next. Welcome to the real world. {sigh} :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Would love to hear an update. I'm not even sure how my school would handle this, but here, one doesn't need an apt to talk with teachers as long as it's not during class time (other classes). :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'd email the teacher immediately with the story, saying I was coming in the next day (before school?) to be present while dd speaks to her (the teacher) about the situation. I might even copy her guidance counselor and the administrator in charge of her grade on the email. I would not tell dd she had to tell the teacher and then leave it to her to do it. This is too big. :iagree: I would want dd to handle it, but I would insist on being there for backup, especially since dd is not showing signs of outspokenness in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yes, I'm hoping for an update too. This situation had me very upset and it's not even my dd! Poor girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) I would do #2, because otherwise your dd could get punished including expulsion if the teacher feels there is cheating/plagerism going on. ETA: now that I am done reading I see you di already email the teacher. Now hoping for an update after you speak directly with him/her. Edited September 7, 2011 by swellmomma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm hoping for an update, too. I'm also worried about this girl! I got a knot in my stomach as I read the OP, thinking how stressed she must have felt. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I didn't read all the replies but something similar happened to my ds his first few months in school while taking a test. Another child looked at his test, ds said he didn't realize the other person was looking at the time and didn't even think to cover his paper (never took tests before in a classroom). The teacher caught the other person looking and saw ds was not trying to keep him from looking and gave both a zero. No amount of arguing/explaining from me or ds changed his mind so we eventually took it as a learning experience. I suggest going to the teacher like yesterday and explaining what happened. Trying to explain after the fact, if the teacher notices which the person most surely will notice, will sound very weak, at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I would like to hear an update also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I would do number 2 but I would ask the teacher to try to make it look like the teacher somehow knew what the other girl was doing and not that your DD or you ratted the little plagiarizer out. :D :iagree: 100% Call the teacher and discuss this ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Definitely need an update! I really hope the poor girl didn't get into any trouble and I hope she can use this as a learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dani3boys Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Please let us know how it all turned out for your daughter. I hope she is not blamed for what this other girl did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothersweets Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yes, I'm hoping for an update too. This situation had me very upset and it's not even my dd! Poor girl! :iagree:Looking forward to an update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLDoll Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I would absolutely tell the teacher (I'd actually encourage my child to do it), before she's embroiled in a plagiarism mess. Your daughter needs to go talk to the teacher first thing. She really should have stayed after class to talk to the teacher right after it happened. Plagiarism was a big deal back when I was in school, though I'm under the impression from my college alumni magazines that students today consider it less so. Your daughter still may face penalties for the fact that she did knowingly share a paper, but she's better off coming to the teacher before the teacher comes to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2denj Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Well, my daughter was sick to death this morning and was really scared to go to school. I gave her the choice and she choose to go and face it. I am very proud of her. The teacher never got my email. So, my daughter went to her after class, shaking like a leaf, and explained the whole thing. The teacher was very gracious and my daughter is not in any trouble at all. Thank you Lord. I am not sure what is going to happen to the other girl. This was definitely a HUGE lesson for my daughter. She will definitely be saying NO to anyone that wants her work. She is an amazing kid who wants to help everyone, but I think she has learned a lesson here. Not all people are good. I am sure that we will find out what will happen to the other girl tomorrow. I will pass that on to you all. My dd was never worried about retaliation from the other girl, she was just worry about the teacher not liking her (a people pleaser through and through). I am worried about it, but the girl is new to the school (and state) so, at least my dd has got friends on her side for support. Thanks for all the well wishes, thoughts and prayers. They were greatly appreciated!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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