Jump to content

Menu

I need back up: my mom just got a jab in on homeschooling


Recommended Posts

My mom, who won't come out and exactly say it, hates that we homeschool. Same w/ my dad. They came up in the world through degrees and education and they are furious that we hs. They've never looked at our curricula. Never asked curious, polite questions about hs. Nothing. I just get jabs.

 

I rarely talk w/ my mom on the phone, but last night did and -- among normal conversation -- she stuck in "I was reading through the Brain Quest questions for kids age 11. And I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE ANSWERS!!!"

 

I didn't know where that was going.

 

Then she said, "if I don't know the answer how do you plan to teach the kids at that age??"

 

Yes, I realize the logical fallacy in what she's saying.

 

She made the automatic assumption that since she didn't know an answer, I wouldn't. She assumes she's much smarter than I am. Nice, I know. She's done that forever.

 

I made some lame comment about teachers simply using curriculum and that was what I was doing too. Duh.

 

Anyway, I later emailed her saying, "I think we should stay off of the hs topic since we don't agree," she wrote back saying, "I'm sorry I upset you. I don't know what I said that upset you." :glare: Whatever, lady.

 

I want to be snotty and say, "let's review in detail why I moved 3,000 miles away from you."

 

But, I don't. For the most part I'm polite and simply don't talk often to her.

 

I need some support. :( Or a Valium.

 

Alley

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a lot of stuff I am teaching my children I don't know. We are learning together!! That makes this fun for all of us, and I think it makes a good example for the children---Momma doesn't know everything, Momma looks it up---Momma is constantly learning, all her life, so should I.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would email her and say to her, I was thinking more about our conversation, and I wanted to tell you that it doesn't matter if you know the answers to everything- what matters is whether you know how to FIND the answers. Teachers use teacher manuals all the time with answer keys in them. I am perfectly capable of helping my kids find out what they want or need to know via the Internet, the library, field trips, videos, conversations with other people and so on, or by using teacher manuals for the curriculum I choose. What I don't know, I will find out. In some cases I will learn ahead of them, in some cases I will learn alongside them. In either case, I am happy and comfortable with the choice I've made for my family, and while you may not understand or approve of it, I am asking you to respect my decision and stop with the jabs against homeschooling.

 

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

Edited by NanceXToo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to a small, private Christian school for high school. Teachers would always take on an extra class here or there as schedules shifted - if they didn't know the subject they would use the manual! It's frustrating to me when people use this "argument" against homeschooling. Until I got to college, I didn't have any teachers who were experts in every single thing they taught.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

 

:iagree: I'm a big fan of that one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My mom, who won't come out and exactly say it, hates that we homeschool. Same w/ my dad. They came up in the world through degrees and education and they are furious that we hs. They've never looked at our curricula. Never asked curious, polite questions about hs. Nothing. I just get jabs.

 

 

This (the bolded part) is what gets to me. My family never really wants to know about homeschooling. There is so much I'd love to share with them. I'd love to show them the amazing curricula I'm using. I'd love to show them all the cool things we are doing. But they aren't interested in any of this. Yet, they feel "educated" enough about what I'm doing (without any real knowledge) to have strong opinions. It irks me sometimes! :glare:

 

Sorry, Alicia. :grouphug: That would really be frustrating to not have support, especially from your parents! I don't have any advice, but I wanted to let you know that I get how much this would bother you and to send my :grouphug:s and support!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like Nance's second answer but probably wouldn't have the courage to actually say that to my mom. My parents are a lot like yours. But not to long ago my dad did admit, in abackwards sort of way, that what we were doing was working. He said " I still don't agree with homeschooling but I do agree with how well your children are doing". This after 9 years of homeschooling. And he can see the difference in how my children are compared to my siblings who raise them different

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would email her and say to her, I was thinking more about our conversation, and I wanted to tell you that it doesn't matter if you know the answers to everything- what matters is whether you know how to FIND the answers. Teachers use teacher manuals all the time with answer keys in them. I am perfectly capable of helping my kids find out what they want or need to know via the Internet, the library, field trips, videos, conversations with other people and so on, or by using teacher manuals for the curriculum I choose. What I don't know, I will find out. In some cases I will learn ahead of them, in some cases I will learn alongside them. In either case, I am happy and comfortable with the choice I've made for my family, and while you may not understand or approve of it, I am asking you to respect my decision and stop with the jabs against homeschooling.

 

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

 

 

:iagree: I like this answer!!! (both of them actually! :001_smile:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would email her and say to her, I was thinking more about our conversation, and I wanted to tell you that it doesn't matter if you know the answers to everything- what matters is whether you know how to FIND the answers. Teachers use teacher manuals all the time with answer keys in them. I am perfectly capable of helping my kids find out what they want or need to know via the Internet, the library, field trips, videos, conversations with other people and so on, or by using teacher manuals for the curriculum I choose. What I don't know, I will find out. In some cases I will learn ahead of them, in some cases I will learn alongside them. In either case, I am happy and comfortable with the choice I've made for my family, and while you may not understand or approve of it, I am asking you to respect my decision and stop with the jabs against homeschooling.

 

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

I think I love you. For both answers. LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How comfortable are you with homeschooling? The more comfortable I've gotten with homeschooling and with not having to be perfect at it (and the closer I've gotten to 50 - which might have even more to do with it;)) the more likely I am to meet a comment like that with a laugh and "I probably won't know all the answers either! Good thing I have a firm hold on the answer key:D) I've found that humor and a relaxed attitude on my part seems to defuse these kinds of situations more than the snappy comeback.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How comfortable are you with homeschooling? The more comfortable I've gotten with homeschooling and with not having to be perfect at it (and the closer I've gotten to 50 - which might have even more to do with it;)) the more likely I am to meet a comment like that with a laugh and "I probably won't know all the answers either! Good thing I have a firm hold on the answer key:D) I've found that humor and a relaxed attitude on my part seems to defuse these kinds of situations more than the snappy comeback.

 

So true! This is definitely wisdom that I need to take in as well. (Although I have to admit....the snappy comebacks are awfully fun to think about! ;))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:grouphug:

 

I can't even begin to image if someone was this way with me. I don't know if I could have done the same. I would have tried to prove my point no matter what. Fortunately, in my circles, no one has dissented about me homeschooling. Even extended family is very supportive.

 

You handled it well and I say well done for not engaging. That is the best way!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first thing that popped into my mind was, "Oh, I plan to plop them in front of the TV to watch cartoons and eat junk food while I give myself a manicure." IMO that kind of question doesn't even deserve a thoughtful response. But I'm just snarky like that.

 

You handled it with grace. I'm so sorry your mom isn't supportive.

 

And I do like both of Nance's replies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that you've gone the direct route of telling her to back off (which is the right choice), you have a couple of future options. One would be to go super sarcastic ("Geez mom, what makes you think I was planning on teaching her after the age of 10? J-O-B, that girl will need to get a job by the time she's 11!), the other would be to just completely ignore her and give ZERO response ("So do you have any plans this week, Mom?").

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I rarely talk w/ my mom on the phone, but last night did and -- among normal conversation -- she stuck in "I was reading through the Brain Quest questions for kids age 11. And I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE ANSWERS!!!"

 

I would've been tempted to say... "REALLY? Wow, the school you went to must have done a really bad job educating you if you can't answer 5th grade quiz questions!" But I probably wouldn't have...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would've been tempted to say... "REALLY? Wow, the school you went to must have done a really bad job educating you if you can't answer 5th grade quiz questions!" But I probably wouldn't have...

 

Yes, my knee-jerk response would have been something like: "Well, if you didn't know those answers, it's a good thing you aren't teaching them, then! Whew!"

 

But, in all seriousness, it sounds to me like your mom wants to draw you into a debate and likes getting a rise out of you. There probably isn't much you can say that will change her mind or behavior. It's probably best to just ignore her, if you can. :grouphug: Bean dip, anyone??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or you could drill your kids on the BrainQuest cards for 11 year olds until they have them all memorized and then mom quiz them. When they can answer them better than she can, maybe she'll be so humiliated by being one-upped by the kids that she'll keep quiet in the future. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My parents were not supportive of our homeschooling choice when we started last year. My dad always asked my son if he was ready to start real school. DS would always say "No, I homeschool." My dad would go on about how fun school is and how much he would learn.

 

We live close and see my parents often. I made sure that my DS "showed off" a little knowledge. My dad babysat one time, I took some of the most advanced books DS was reading and some workbooks for him to play in. My dad saw what he was doing and was impressed.

 

Every now and then I tell my mom about the curriculum I have for next year and she is impressed with what we will be doing. She does always express her concerns:"If he learns chemistry before high school, won't that cause problems when he takes the class in school?" I just have to explain, that he would be fine if we chose to put him in school for high school. He won't know everything they are learning, he will just have some important concepts (parts of the periodic table, basics of atoms and chemical reactions) memorized. He will not have to cram like his classmates...and that is only if he goes to a school for high school.

 

It helps that she just spent the weekend at the family reunion with family members homeschooled through high school and that her best friend's daughter homeschools. They are coming around.

 

Can you find someone your parents know that has been homeschooled and done well? Can you have your boys do something impressive to send to her? I found a blank book at HS convention this year that has lines for writing a story and blank space for illustrating the story. Do something like that to show their good handwriting, spelling ability, artistic skills....make it a birthday or Christmas gift for your parents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, everyone!!

 

I'm terrible at "quoting" and then responding, but your support is so appreciated. Every single one of you.

 

I particularly like the idea of telling her that I won't school them past the age of 10, but will be letting them watch a lot of TV and having a manicure! :lol:

 

Wish I'd thought of that one!!!!

 

What would I do without this forum?

 

Alley

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alley, I think I would repeat it back to her so she knows exactly how her comments are coming across to you. As in "mom, it sounds like you're saying that you think I'm too stupid to homeschool an elementary age child. Is that what you really think?". And then she can either back down and say oh no, I didn't mean that... Or yes, that's what I think. Regardless, my next response would be "ok, thanks for your feedback, I'll be sure to give that all the consideration it deserves. I'll let you know if I need any more of your help in the future."

 

I think your request to not discuss homeschooling was a good way to handle it.... Hopefully she will honor that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

 

 

:lol: I like this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would email her and say to her, I was thinking more about our conversation, and I wanted to tell you that it doesn't matter if you know the answers to everything- what matters is whether you know how to FIND the answers. Teachers use teacher manuals all the time with answer keys in them. I am perfectly capable of helping my kids find out what they want or need to know via the Internet, the library, field trips, videos, conversations with other people and so on, or by using teacher manuals for the curriculum I choose. What I don't know, I will find out. In some cases I will learn ahead of them, in some cases I will learn alongside them.

 

Nicely put.

 

Sounds like OP's mom really wants to know this (above) but didn't ask in a very socially acceptable manner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say, "The BrainQuest cards include the answers. Even teachers use an answer key."

 

I'd just say the first sentence so the implication was that she couldn't figure that part out. :D

 

Seriously though, This would be off-limits from now on. If she mentions anything related to the homeschooling I'd be saying, "Lovely to talk to you Mom, bye," and hanging up. If I were snarky I might say something like, "You're a smart lady Mom, I'm sure you'll figure it out some day, bye," and hang up.

 

Under NO circumstances should you justify or offer supporting arguments for what you're doing. That's just an opening. Every homeschool comment should signal the end of the conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would email her and say to her, I was thinking more about our conversation, and I wanted to tell you that it doesn't matter if you know the answers to everything- what matters is whether you know how to FIND the answers. Teachers use teacher manuals all the time with answer keys in them. I am perfectly capable of helping my kids find out what they want or need to know via the Internet, the library, field trips, videos, conversations with other people and so on, or by using teacher manuals for the curriculum I choose. What I don't know, I will find out. In some cases I will learn ahead of them, in some cases I will learn alongside them. In either case, I am happy and comfortable with the choice I've made for my family, and while you may not understand or approve of it, I am asking you to respect my decision and stop with the jabs against homeschooling.

 

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

 

I really wouldn't bother offering anything more. IME the mom isn't looking to be convinced and any information offered will just open the OP up to more of her mom's comments. I would the secon response though and then say, "Bye Mom," and hang up the phone. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Dulcimeramy
:grouphug:

 

I'm really sorry, Alley.

 

I think you handled it well, if that is any consolation.

 

:iagree: :grouphug:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Under NO circumstances should you justify or offer supporting arguments for what you're doing. That's just an opening. Every homeschool comment should signal the end of the conversation.

 

Why? I can understand when a grandparent oversteps boundaries and is undermining the parents, that yes, you have to pass the bean dip (ie. set boundaries and enforce them.) But a grandparent is a validly interested party. As long as the questions really are from a point of concern, then I think that we should offer some explanation (though I wouldn't go as far as supporting arguments etc.).

 

Looking at the OP, it is so hard to tell what the tone of her mother was. That would make such a huge difference between whether it was mean-spirited, or really just a question. I mean, really, I wondered myself once I got to the 5th grade on up stage, "How am I going to do this?"! That's why I tend to humorously answer the question while still providing the answer (with the help of answer keys). Or sometimes, I will answer the "real" question behind the question - "Mom, it sounds like you're afraid that the older grades might be too specialized. I've got it covered with the teacher's guides. I'm also pretty smart. I can also relearn anything I've forgotten pretty quickly!" If it's mean-spirited, then I would be more direct in shutting down the conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How comfortable are you with homeschooling? The more comfortable I've gotten with homeschooling and with not having to be perfect at it (and the closer I've gotten to 50 - which might have even more to do with it;)) the more likely I am to meet a comment like that with a laugh and "I probably won't know all the answers either! Good thing I have a firm hold on the answer key:D) I've found that humor and a relaxed attitude on my part seems to defuse these kinds of situations more than the snappy comeback.

 

:iagree:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why? I can understand when a grandparent oversteps boundaries and is undermining the parents, that yes, you have to pass the bean dip (ie. set boundaries and enforce them.) But a grandparent is a validly interested party. As long as the questions really are from a point of concern, then I think that we should offer some explanation (though I wouldn't go as far as supporting arguments etc.).

 

Yeah, I do think it is best to try to offer some explanations to very close relatives when they are voicing concerns... if you can say something to try to ease those concerns, why not? Taking a few minutes up front to do something like that can save a lot of headache down the road on your part and possibly a lot of worry on your relatives' parts.

 

I think it's fine to offer reassurance, answer valid questions, etc.

 

But eventually there comes a point where you can see (and this point will vary for each person) that the relative in question is no longer asking out of concern or is no longer asking "new" questions but is just being negative and hard-headed and doesn't really care what your answer is and just wants to get their jabs in.

 

And when that day/point comes, then we need to be able to politely but firmly and clearly tell them, "This is no longer open for discussion. I have tried to answer your questions, I have explained myself as best I could... at this point, it seems like you are merely being argumentative/offensive and if you cannot respect my decisions, I do not wish to discuss my family's choices with you anymore as it is going to do nothing but lead to hard feelings on both of our parts. Let's just agree to disagree and drop it."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've often thought I do not know enough to hs, so take this with a grain of salt. My kids even stump me. ;) talk about humbling, when the 12 tyr old knows more. lol If my mother said something like that to me, I would say something like, " Heck ya, me neither. That's why God made Google!"

Edited by LibraryLover
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The best answer is deflection...there is no way anything you say or do will change her perspective, she's ruminated on it too long and I'm sure found a sounding board with your father. The best answer is simply to say, "Give me five years, and let me hear your opinions then...when I ask for them"....change the subject, no need to get snarky back at her....ask her how her sister is or what happened this week on her favorite show...anything, but make it clear, this is not up for discussion...these are your children, not hers....she made her education selections and so have you.

 

My parents would give little 'inputs' here and there...my favorite was, "Surely, you'll put them back into school for high school." But here I am 10 years later and homeschooling high school...they're doing great! My parents are pleased and actually promote it to their friends/family now...time changes many things...but words alone simply will not motivate the fool to leave his/her foolishness :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why? I can understand when a grandparent oversteps boundaries and is undermining the parents, that yes, you have to pass the bean dip (ie. set boundaries and enforce them.) But a grandparent is a validly interested party. As long as the questions really are from a point of concern, then I think that we should offer some explanation (though I wouldn't go as far as supporting arguments etc.).

 

 

I may have been a little harsh on that point...:) If there's a real interest, yes, you're right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would email her and say to her, I was thinking more about our conversation, and I wanted to tell you that it doesn't matter if you know the answers to everything- what matters is whether you know how to FIND the answers. Teachers use teacher manuals all the time with answer keys in them. I am perfectly capable of helping my kids find out what they want or need to know via the Internet, the library, field trips, videos, conversations with other people and so on, or by using teacher manuals for the curriculum I choose. What I don't know, I will find out. In some cases I will learn ahead of them, in some cases I will learn alongside them. In either case, I am happy and comfortable with the choice I've made for my family, and while you may not understand or approve of it, I am asking you to respect my decision and stop with the jabs against homeschooling.

 

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

:iagree:

 

If Einstein had needed someone who already knew the answers to teach him about relativity our world could have been pretty different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

she stuck in "I was reading through the Brain Quest questions for kids age 11. And I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE ANSWERS!!!"

 

Then she said, "if I don't know the answer how do you plan to teach the kids at that age??"

 

 

I think this just proves that if you don't know the answers to Brain Quest questions, how important is that information to real life anyway? There are many, many things that I don't remember learning or retaining the knowledge of when I was 11. The fun is relearning along with your kids now.

 

Stay the course with homeschooling your kids. You'll have lots of support here!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This (the bolded part) is what gets to me. My family never really wants to know about homeschooling. There is so much I'd love to share with them. I'd love to show them the amazing curricula I'm using. I'd love to show them all the cool things we are doing. But they aren't interested in any of this. Yet, they feel "educated" enough about what I'm doing (without any real knowledge) to have strong opinions. It irks me sometimes! :glare:

 

Sorry, Alicia. :grouphug: That would really be frustrating to not have support, especially from your parents! I don't have any advice, but I wanted to let you know that I get how much this would bother you and to send my :grouphug:s and support!

 

Mine either. I try to show them the projects they are doing, I ask if they want my blog address so they can see what's going on, and they scoff at me and say "Why would I ever want to look at that?" I don't expect them to learn all the ins and outs of different curricula, but maybe be moderately interested in what your grandchildren are learning?

 

One Christmas MIL got DD a bag she had painted on with puffy paint. It was hard to read, kinda squiggly. I looked at it quickly and commented on what it said. It was a thank you for the bag type of comment; I misread bag for something else. Well DH's cousin snidely remarked "If you can't read that, how are you going to teach them how to read?" :glare: Unfortunately, I'm still irritated about it, and she irritates me just seeing her. :chillpill:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyway, I later emailed her saying, "I think we should stay off of the hs topic since we don't agree,"

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Your kids are 7, and she may still take time to warm up to the hsing idea. Based on experience with my own (and dh's) family, it's likely she's bragging about you to her friends and acquaintances.

 

After 10 years, I again had to have the discussion with my dad that hsing is not a topic I will discuss. It's unfortunate. He lives far away, and he misses out on a lot. I am reluctant to say much of anything about my kids because of his history of twisting it and slamming hsing. I'd never say anything negative, and even if it's positive, I hear, "Well just think how many more opportunities they'd have a public school!"

 

Alley, I'm sorry. I know it's hard. We'll support you here, you can count on that!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

My MIL, though I love her dearly, is here and totally believes in the supremacy of the public school education.

 

Whatchagonnado?

 

She's now teaching my 5 yo to print, when I have specifically and repeatedly said we do not print in this house until much, much later.

 

I love her. She's a great MIL. *shrug* I'm not gonna fight over it, but I *totally* get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of understand.

 

My mom waffles back and forth about whether or not homeschooling is good or bad in her opinion. I have put distance between us because she is controlling on almost every subject she brings up. She changes her mind often on what she thinks is true, and then tries to convince me that she knows best. She watches too much tv or something!

 

Love my mom, but I need distance to away from disagreements.

 

Sorry about your experience!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

 

Yup. I was thinking this, too. But I suppose that would just make the fire hotter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Alternatively, you could go totally snarky and inform her that if her public school education didn't teach her enough to answer questions geared toward 11 year olds, it's probably good you're homeschooling your kids instead. Ha ha. :)

 

:iagree: and :hurray:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One Christmas MIL got DD a bag she had painted on with puffy paint. It was hard to read, kinda squiggly. I looked at it quickly and commented on what it said. It was a thank you for the bag type of comment; I misread bag for something else. Well DH's cousin snidely remarked "If you can't read that, how are you going to teach them how to read?" :glare: Unfortunately, I'm still irritated about it, and she irritates me just seeing her. :chillpill:

 

My mom would totally say something like this to me.

 

Awful. I can't imagine talking to my daughter-in-law like that.

 

Alley

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How comfortable are you with homeschooling? The more comfortable I've gotten with homeschooling and with not having to be perfect at it (and the closer I've gotten to 50 - which might have even more to do with it;)) the more likely I am to meet a comment like that with a laugh and "I probably won't know all the answers either! Good thing I have a firm hold on the answer key:D) I've found that humor and a relaxed attitude on my part seems to defuse these kinds of situations more than the snappy comeback.

 

Jean: Yes to what you've said here. I couldn't agree more. I'm like this w/ anyone else. It's my mom and dad that still get under my skin.

 

And, no, I don't think my mom is covered my using a "nice" tone of voice. She has a long history of not being nice to me. Long.

 

One time she went on and on about how she'd take care of my boys if I died. And -- the way she was talking and I'm not kidding you -- she sounded like she was relishing the idea of my being gone so that she could have my boys.

 

I'm not kidding. (Female cousins -- not all "blood" thankfully -- have died young in our family leaving many young kids so everyone in our family gives thought to this issue. But still. . .!)

 

Alley

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...