lea1 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) .....it is clearly NOT a time to be smiling. I really don't understand it and I find it so frustrating. He will smile, as if he is a step away from laughing out loud, when he has done something he should not have, possibly hurt someone on purpose or accidentally or broken a house rule or whatever. So maybe he is scolded or given a warning or something. He stands there the entire time with this grin on his face. He now knows that he should not be smiling in these situations so he sometimes tries to hide it by turning away or hiding his face. I asked him today if there are times when he wishes he could turn off his smile but he can't. He kind of said yes, I think, but he was kind of smiling too and I could not really read him on it. He is a very smart little guy but does not always pick up on social queues as quickly as his brother, who is the same age. I really need to understand why he does this. It can be really infuriating. So far it has only been an issue within our family but I could see this causing issues with him with friendships further down the road. ETA he is five and a half. Edited July 5, 2011 by Lea in OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Anxiety. Embarrassment. Surprise. All of the above have caused me to smile or laugh at inappropriate times in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Nervous laughter. I think it is not an uncommon response to stress. The bigger question is why can't you ignore it? Edited July 5, 2011 by OrganicAnn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbean05 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We have the very same problem with my 5 yo DD and I have no earthly idea why she does it. If it makes you feel any better, though, I also find it infuriating and, even after talking to her about it time and time again, it continues to be an issue. Perhaps it is their way of handling stress? Either way, I sympathize with you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbean05 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Haha! Okay, we all just jinxed each other. :) That made me laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 This is how my dad handles stress. He spent all his time at my great-grandpa's funeral trying to force himself not to smile. It can be infuriating for my mom (and was for my grandma raising him!), but it's not something he does on purpose. He's nearly 60, but still has to work at it! He's ADHD--I don't know if this is related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 In context, he sounds very young. The smiling is nervous "energy" combined with (age expected) immaturity. It's very common and normal. I don't know how to gently tell you to :chillpill: but, really, don't generalize or catastraphize it. He'll outgrow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Buckin' Longhorn Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Anxiety. Embarrassment. Surprise. All of the above have caused me to smile or laugh at inappropriate times in the past. :iagree: I have an 18 year old that literally has to put his hand over his mouth and sometimes pretend to cough because he gets a HUGE GRIN on his face when he is nervous or anxious. Now that he is older, it kind of works in his favor because people always think he is just SO FRIENDLY and SUPER EASY GOING, when he is really about ready to pass out, LOL. It used to get on my nerves, but you just have to learn to play the hand you are dealt. If you had a nervous eye twitch or something, someone telling you to stop doing it would just exacerbate the situation. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Anxiety. Embarrassment. Surprise. All of the above have caused me to smile or laugh at inappropriate times in the past. :iagree:The above have caused me to have to work very hard not to laugh or smile. Funerals are the worst for me. I always think of something that makes me have to work so hard as to not laugh and disrupt the service. It is so embarrassing to have to walk out and go to the restroom to get away but that's preferable to laughing (especially since I snort really loud when I laugh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I used to have nightmares that I'd be really, really mad about something, and DH would just sit there laughing at me. Then I had children, and my nightmares came true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnitaMcC Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Ds#2 smiles when he is in an uncomfortable situation. I think it is a nervous thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 This is how my dad handles stress. He spent all his time at my great-grandpa's funeral trying to force himself not to smile. It can be infuriating for my mom (and was for my grandma raising him!), but it's not something he does on purpose. He's nearly 60, but still has to work at it! He's ADHD--I don't know if this is related. I think it may be. My only child who does this is also the only one diagnosed ADHD. She is 12 and has a better handle on it, but she seriously cannot control it when it happens. It's usually when she is in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnitaMcC Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 This is how my dad handles stress. He spent all his time at my great-grandpa's funeral trying to force himself not to smile. It can be infuriating for my mom (and was for my grandma raising him!), but it's not something he does on purpose. He's nearly 60, but still has to work at it! He's ADHD--I don't know if this is related. My Ds#2 also does this smiling thing when he is uncomfortable or nervous or embarrassed. He is also ADHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Im guessing he's between 6 and 10 He's being put on the spot and doesn't have the tools to handle people who are in his face. Don't back him into a corner! The kid needs space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well, it is good to know that it is not all that unusual. Thanks, that is reassuring. I have ignored it plenty of times. At the same time, there are times when it is so inappropriate that it is an issue. When he does something to hurt his same-age brother, whether accidentally or on purpose, and he is laughing while apologizing, his brother feels even worse. It is not always that easy to ignore or explain, especially when I do not understand it myself..... hence, my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Im guessing he's between 6 and 10 He's being put on the spot and doesn't have the tools to handle people who are in his face. Don't back him into a corner! The kid needs space. Hmmm. Maybe I did not explain well enough in my original post. When I said he might be scolded or given a warning, the scolding or warning was in regards to whatever he might have done in the first place, not for the smiling. I do not get in his face or back him into a corner. Goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Hmmm. Maybe I did not explain well enough in my original post. When I said he might be scolded or given a warning, the scolding or warning was in regards to whatever he might have done in the first place, not for the smiling.I do not get in his face or back him into a corner. Goodness. :) That's good. :) But I was thinking of other folks, not mom. How old is he? Can those others back off a little? Do they think he is trying to get away with something? Is he a little anxoius about being perfect, living up to how 'good/better' his brother is? Can they give him a little space ? Is he just a little boy trying to be seen as 'good' as a sibling? Do you think he is already feeling a little defeated in that reguard? Is smiling his way of handlng the pressure? Edited July 5, 2011 by LibraryLover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Year Round Mom Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) nm Edited July 5, 2011 by LivingOutLove I am an idiot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Even I, as an adult, do this sometimes. It's kinda like when I shake and can't stop, when I get angry. :( For a kid, I think you have to just hold and love on 'em when that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) One of my sons does this. I believe in his case it is discomfort and anxiety. It doesn't look like it mind you but I'm pretty certain for various reasons. He's actually hyper-sensitive to people's negative emotions and it comes out weird. My son is "spectrumy" and that may have something to do with it. Edited July 5, 2011 by sbgrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTanya Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 This topic is very classical Reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Bear Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 You mentioned his missing social cues? Have you heard of socialthinking.com? I think your punkin might benefit from taking a look at some of the picture book "curriculum" there. Some kids need to practice interacting with other people under particular circumstances - this set of books is a good way to help them do that. They seem to need different, more explicit, rather than implicit, modeling. In my experience, little ones who persist in behaving inappropriately for a given situation often invite more and more emphatic responses from parents, peers, other adults. These little guys are confused by this because they just don't get it and can't "pick it up" the same way we'd usually expect kids to. Over time, and reading more and more on the subject, I've become convinced that this type of thing stems completely from neurological differences, which can be effectively influenced by purposeful interventions. (Stepping off my soapbox... :D) Congrats to you for picking up on this - he's lucky to have you for his mom. :) Blessings for the journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 DS12 used to do this aged 5 to about 7 years. It used to drive me mad, but I kind of understood. His teachers at school, however, didn't understand (which now surprises me given how common it seems to be). They put it down to him being defiant or impertinent and gave him no end of trouble. Another reason to avoid school I suppose, although this particular DS hates the idea of homeschool. We had to work quite hard with him to get him to modify his behaviour in these situations, so that he wouldn't rub people up the wrong way so much. He doesn't really do it any more, he's learnt a more appropriate facial expression, but I can see a glimmer of it occasionally when the trouble he's in has resulted from something wild and fun, and it does look totally impertinent, fortunately I know that in reality he's actually a very compliant person. Probably completely irrelevant, but we have a six month old puppy who's very submissive, and she also 'grins' when she's being told off for being naughty :tongue_smilie:. Cassy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 nervous grin. I do it too sometimes, or did at that age. If I was REALLY upset/nervous I would laugh, which is even worse. I can remember getting in trouble at school and giggling because of it. Not a good way to impress the teacher! It's reflexive, he can't help it. I also would smile when I wanted to cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Also, i wonder if this is related to the "submissive grin" that so many animals display. It's a way to appease those in power over you. Which would make sense in context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Reflexive. If anyone figures out the solution, let me know. Maybe it can help me with the horribly embarrassing crying I do when I'm overly frustrated or angry. Not cool when you're trying to discuss something with your boss, get answers from your doctor, or iron out billing with your insurance company!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I do it too, don't know why, my son seems to be the same way, it drives dh crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I've definitely seen people who unintentionally smile when they should not. I, on the other hand, had a hard time not making inappropriate wisecracks when I was in trouble (as a teen). That was not entirely intentional either--believe it or not. Detention wasn't the end of the world. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I have one ds who always smiles when in trouble. It is nervousness, anxiety, etc... I chose to just accept it is his way of dealing with stress but it drives my husband crazy. I have had to ask him to chill a number of times over this issue because the more my husband gets angry, the more ds smiles. He just can't help it and doesn't mean to. He also giggled through needles and 10 stitches in his hand once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Nervous grin:iagree: Ignore it, continue on with discipline...the issue is the *action* and not his reflexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Of course I don't know your little guy, but the smiling issue is associated strongly with Asperger's. Aspie people are known for smiling/laughing at very inappropriate moments -- often when others are hurt. Dh has Aspergers and I've seen this happen with him. It's unnerving but part of the Aspie issue. Asperger people are also known for being extremely intelligent. Alley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMomof4 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Ds laughs so he won't cry. He takes a scolding very, very hard and you can tell he has to make the decision to laugh or to cry. If dh is giving him the talking to, he laughs. If I'm being the mean ol' mom, he crys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 In some cultures, the smile is culturally understood to be a sign of embarrassment. I've always assumed that it must be an innate physical response for both happiness and embarrassment or anxiety and it's just that in some cultures the happiness element is emphasized so it's schooled out of us to do it in embarrassment and in others vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I did this as a kid. If I was in really big trouble--or, even worse, if I was watching somebody else get into really big trouble or get really bad news--it was hard for me not to smile or laugh. I totally didn't think the situation was funny, not even a teeny, tiny bit, but that's just how my anxiety and discomfort and embarrassment over the situation came out. I probably did it until my late teens. I knew it was an inappropriate reaction. In fact, I can remember worrying about it, like what if I was at a friend's house, and they found out their grandmother died, and I laughed? How horrible that would be. I used to really get myself stressed out over that. I don't think it's an extremely uncommon reaction for people to have, especially when they're young. Now that he is older, it kind of works in his favor because people always think he is just SO FRIENDLY and SUPER EASY GOING, when he is really about ready to pass out, LOL. That's too funny. I used to have people tell me all the time how much I must LOVE public speaking, because whenever I had to present a paper in class or at a conference, I'd be super-animated and really smiley. Truth was, I was scared to death. I'd be up there feeling like I was about to die, and sure everybody could tell, but my adrenaline seems to kick my body into smiley-happy mode on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Embarrassment, nervousness, and discomfort. I was this child. There was nothing I could do to help it, no matter how much my mother got on me about it. Ignore it. It's not intentional. I smiled when I told my neighbors I had found their cat killed on the road. Obviously not something I was happy about. It was horribly uncomfortable to have to tell them that. Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kengjw Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 My 5 year old is like that too. At first it frustrates me but then I figured out that was his way of coping with stress, nervousness, discomfort etc. Yes, he has been misunderstood by other people as well but I have to be there to "stand" by his side. I know he doesn't mean to do it or can control it at this age so I can sympathize. I have explained it to my dd and she now understands that her brother is not being mean spirited or trying to laugh at her when she is in trouble. I try to remember we are all different and that helps me accept his grins/smiles :0) HTH Julia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 My 15yo Aspie's facial expressions do not match what she's feeling most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 :iagree:The above have caused me to have to work very hard not to laugh or smile. Funerals are the worst for me. I always think of something that makes me have to work so hard as to not laugh and disrupt the service. It is so embarrassing to have to walk out and go to the restroom to get away but that's preferable to laughing (especially since I snort really loud when I laugh). :iagree: I still smile & laugh when I'm really upset or stressed. Believe me, it's not something I choose, and it makes us feel bad. I would work on understanding your ds can not control it. It's just a nervous reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailmegan Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I don't have Aspergers, but I do this in awkward situations - stress, nervousness, discomfort. When things go horribly wrong I can't help but laugh. I wish I could turn it off, but I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I don't have Aspergers, but I do this in awkward situations - stress, nervousness, discomfort. When things go horribly wrong I can't help but laugh. I wish I could turn it off, but I can't. I think this is very common. My oldest does it a lot and I know it's not because he thinks the situation is funny. It's just a nervous reaction. I do it, too. Just the other night, DH was got up in the dark and didn't want to turn the light on and banged right into the edge of the door. I started cracking up, but I didn't think it was funny at all. I felt so bad because I didn't want him to think I was laughing at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Many people have a nervous smile response. Some might even laugh! I am one of them. It sucks. It is normally spontaneous and not purposely done. Pay more attention to what the child is SAYING rather than their expression. More than once someone has thought I was being sarcastic or insincere because I smile and laugh a LOT no matter how bad things are. I once had a woman tell me she thought I was faking being seriously sick bc I sounded fine. Apparently I wasn't depressing enough to her to be convincing? Same goes for my recent c/s. It must not have been that bad and I must be all healed up bc I'm smiling and laughing? Well what am I supposed to do? I was not aware there was a set protocol for these things? :001_huh: :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLG Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 My dh does this!!! Nervousness I'd say. Or it worked in the past to diffuse situations so it became a learned behavior? Infuriating, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Some people do this to cope with stress. During very stressful times funny things pop into my head out of nowhere, or I see the ridiculousness in the way people are negatively over-reacting and make a joke out of it in my head. We pay professional comics a lot of money to do this for out entertainment. Remember the comedians formula: tragedy+time=comedy. Some people just skip the time part. Examples: When a neighbor mine (born and raised in Belarus) started screaming at me when I mentioned we were planning to adopt (in general, people from the east are extremely anti-adoption) all I could think about was, "Really? Did I just get magically transported to an SNL skit? Is her head going to start spinning right now while spit is coming out her mouth because of her yelling?" And I imagined what it would look like if her head had actually started spinning around, and frankly it was funny. I laughed at her dooms day warnings about the potential horrors of adopted children. Another time my husband's grandmother said, "If you don't wean her now (she was about 18 mos. old) you'll never wean her." I imagined the ridiculousness of my child grown and in her 40s while I was nursing her with a sagging aged body of a 60 year old. It was funny and I laughed at her stupid "warning." When my lung spontaneously collapsed a few years ago and they told me they had to stick a needle all the way into my chest cavity while I was awake to fix it, all I could do was laugh and think, "You never know where a day is going to take you. 40 minutes ago I was perfectly fine and now I'm about to be a living voodoo doll." I was laughing about it while I waited for the Dr. to come in and do the job. I have even read accounts of military personnel laughing uncontrollably their first time in combat. Edited July 5, 2011 by Homeschool Mom in AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Reflexive. If anyone figures out the solution, let me know. Maybe it can help me with the horribly embarrassing crying I do when I'm overly frustrated or angry. Not cool when you're trying to discuss something with your boss, get answers from your doctor, or iron out billing with your insurance company!!! While trying to get the Dr to listen to me about possible thyroid issues, I started cyring because it is so frustrating. Of course her questioning turned to depression. :banghead: While sitting with the neurologist about my son last week, I had to cover my mouth because I was smiling while she was explaning how my son had CP! Hopefully her being a neurologist, would understand that I wasn't actually happy. Obviously I still laugh or grin at inappropriate times. The worst being when I'm trying to tell my son how something inappropriate, and I'm laughing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Oh my goodness, Cathie! I wish I had known you better when we lived in TN! I only heard you snort once, but I understood then why it's so legendary! Didn't Rebecca typically give the first person to make you snort a chocolate bar??? :lol::lol::lol: Yes... there was a group that brought chocolate to give to the first person to make me snort.... embarrassing at first.... I forgot someone on here knew about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 I appreciate all of the feedback. It helps to be able to understand it better and empathize. I have already tried to start explaining it to his same-age brother because he sees it as most people would, making fun or thinking it's funny. Hopefully this will help. Thanks so much! Probably completely irrelevant, but we have a six month old puppy who's very submissive, and she also 'grins' when she's being told off for being naughty :tongue_smilie:. Cassy:lol: This is very funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Some people do this to cope with stress. Another time my husband's grandmother said, "If you don't wean her now (she was about 18 mos. old) you'll never wean her." I imagined the ridiculousness of my child grown and in her 40s while I was nursing her with a sagging aged body of a 60 year old. It was funny and I laughed at her stupid "warning." :lol: When my lung spontaneously collapsed a few years ago and they told me they had to stick a needle all the way into my chest cavity while I was awake to fix it, all I could do was laugh and think, "You never know where a day is going to take you. 40 minutes ago I was perfectly fine and now I'm about to be a living voodoo doll." I was laughing about it while I waited for the Dr. to come in and do the job. Oh my! I'm pretty sure I would have been crying while waiting for the doc to stick the needle into my chest cavity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Of course I don't know your little guy, but the smiling issue is associated strongly with Asperger's. Aspie people are known for smiling/laughing at very inappropriate moments -- often when others are hurt. Dh has Aspergers and I've seen this happen with him. It's unnerving but part of the Aspie issue. Asperger people are also known for being extremely intelligent. Alley You know, several people have commented about Asperger's and ADHD. I looked up symptoms for Asperger's and he certainly does fit some of them but I don't think he fits enough of them. I suppose I could be wrong but, for the most part, he interacts very well with people. He does talk a lot though:tongue_smilie: and he is quite smart. During the time we were in the process of selling our house, moving to a rental house, building a house and then moving again, at some point, he started displaying some OCD behaviors. Dh and I went to a counselor to discuss it with her so we would know whether or not to be concerned and how to handle the behaviors. She thought he was too young to really have OCD. She said children around this age (five and a half) have a tendency to take on some funny behaviors for the short term and just as quickly drop them. He is still doing some of them but I don't think as often. I'm not sure when we should be concerned but I guess that is another topic.:001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thre are two options. Only you can really know which fits... 1.) This is incredibly normal. It is a normal response to stress, and it takes maturity to learn to "override" it before it makes it to your face. It is also more common in some people, I think. There is absolutely nothing wrong with him, and I wouldn't be offended or upset by his smiling, just gently remind him that smiling when he is being disciplined is not a good thing. 2.) He knows it gets to you, and he is doing it on purpose. It can be his way of controlling the situation, showing you he doesn't care about what you are saying. My db used to do this as a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thre are two options. Only you can really know which fits... 1.) This is incredibly normal. It is a normal response to stress, and it takes maturity to learn to "override" it before it makes it to your face. It is also more common in some people, I think. There is absolutely nothing wrong with him, and I wouldn't be offended or upset by his smiling, just gently remind him that smiling when he is being disciplined is not a good thing. 2.) He knows it gets to you, and he is doing it on purpose. It can be his way of controlling the situation, showing you he doesn't care about what you are saying. My db used to do this as a child. Hmmm, yes, true. I actually have seen him have the correct response to this type of situation (hurting his brother accidentally, for example) and really mean it when he was apologizing, with the correct look on his face. So I know he can do it. I do suspect there is a bit of doing it to get to me, at times, and possibly smiling accidentally at times and not being able to turn it off. So, possibly a little of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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