Parents of 6 year olds, please indulge me...

[Missouri Okie]

Is there really a correlation between being able to repeat a string of six numbers and reading ability? I'm asking based on information presented during a HS convention this week.

 

I have a 6 year old who reads but not well. He still sounds out all but the most frequently used words. He can not repeat a series of 6 numbers back to me. Can your six year old do this? (for example, say to him/her 609516 in a monotone voice with a slight pause between each number). If your child can do this, is he/she a 'good' reader?

 

It's strange to me that my son can't do this, yet can memorize a long poem just by hearing it 5 or so times on a CD and can play his violin quite well by ear.

[Sevilla]

I haven't heard about that before, but I just asked my not-yet-6 year old DS to repeat a set of 6 unfamiliar numbers and he was able to do it easily after hearing it just once. He is a fluent reader.

[twoxcell]

I just asked my 5.5 year old to repeat the numbers that you said back to me, and she got them almost correct. She switched two of them. She is not yet a fluent reader, but can read short vowel, long vowel, basic sight words and some blends.

[TracyP]

I asked my 5.5 and 7.5 year old and neither could do it on the first try. I was tempted to try again because they both *almost* did it. They are both excellent readers. So, no correlation here.

[joysworld]

My ds will be 6 in May. He's a fairly good reader, but in no way can repeat that back to me. I really don't see the is a correlation.

[Jumping In Puddles]

My 6 year old couldn't do it. She is doing really well with phonics, but is far from a fluent reader.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Neither my 6yog nor my 9yog can do it. My 9yo tried five times and could not do it. Then she read it over and over and still could not do it. :confused: She is a very good reader and good at math. She just read The Black Stallion and knows all of her math facts. I am shocked and concerned that she can't do it, but would say it has nothing to do with reading ability.

[PentecostalMom]

My dd just turned five March 22nd. I asked her and she repeated them perfectly the first try. We have had reading setbacks due to vision issues, family, etc. She is not a fluent reader, we did lesson thirty-something in OPGTR today.

[Satori]

My dd6 did it, my dh39 could not.

 

On iPad so keepin it short.

[katilac]

Yes, there is a correlation. It's testing short-term verbal memory, a phonological processing skill.

[texasmama]

My 5.5 yo could repeat the string of 6 random numbers. She is a beginning reader.

[Mert]

Ds could read well and repeat numbers back at 4yo. He surprised me by learning our phone number one day when I had to give it while I was paying at Babies R Us one day. I thought there was a correlation... short term memory as pp mentioned.

[Dmmetler]

My DD 6 can. She was a ridiculously early reader and memorizes easily.

[kathkath]

My 6yo dd tests at the 5th grade level in reading and cannot repeat more than 4.

[Crispa]

Perhaps this relates somehow to the dictation exercises SWB offers in the "Writing with Ease" workbooks (which we have recently begun; I'm already a fan!). Adult reads a short sentence to the child a couple times; child tries to write it from memory. Maybe practicing this week after week after week hones those short-term verbal memory skills.

 

At six years old, I would expect those skills to be all over the map. :) I suspect they'd even out among children in the 8-10 age range.

[blondeviolin]

My nearly-5yo can. I wouldn't call her a fluent reader, maybe nearly so.

[katilac]

My nearly-5yo can. I wouldn't call her a fluent reader, maybe nearly so.

 

It doesn't correlate with being a fluent reader so much as it correlates with having the skills to become a fluent reader. Like being able to recognize and make rhymes.

[Missouri Okie]

Yes, there is a correlation. It's testing short-term verbal memory, a phonological processing skill.

 

katilac,

 

Do you know of specific strategies to improve short-term verbal memory?

[bluemongoose]

My DH does this as a game with DD all the time. First he gives her the number and asks her to repeat it back. Then he gives her a treat if she can recall the number when he asks at another time. Usually this is the next day or two days later. She loves the game. :)

 

Anyway, to answer your question...DD was also reading ridiculously early, is reading at a very high level right now, and is about 6.5yo. She has no trouble repeating a random 6 digit number.

[aly9712]

my dd6 did and she's very fluent- although I seriously doubt there's any connection there between the two skills.

[sassenach]

I just had my 6yo do that and she could. She is an increasingly fluent reader, though not quite out of the easy reader stage.

[sarawatsonim]

My dd6 did it, my dh39 could not.

 

On iPad so keepin it short.

 

:lol:

 

Sounds like my dh. He just looked at me blankly and said "what?".

My dd6 did it and she can read fairly well.

[Spy Car]

My 6 year old (7 in July) had no problem. He is a very strong reader.

 

Bill

[Ellie]

I know adults who can't repeat back a telephone #, so I'm not convinced that it's a problem if a 6yo cannot repeat back 6 numbers.

[Quad Shot Academy]

I know adults who can't repeat back a telephone #, so I'm not convinced that it's a problem if a 6yo cannot repeat back 6 numbers.

 

Good point. I am terrible with phone numbers. Yet, I can remember a series of random pictures quite well.

[Dinsfamily]

5yo couldn't do it and is a natural reader. He started reading just before 3yo and is reading fluently at a 2nd grade level despite no reading instruction.

 

7yo could do it with no problem. He reads at a 5th grade level but isn't as natural reader as my 5yo (meaning he didn't pick it up by himself and didn't read fluently til 5).

[Guest]

My 6yo skipped the 5 and is a very fluent reader.

 

On the other hand, he spouted off my cell phone number the other day and I have only told it to him one time about a month ago. Now that blew my socks off. :)

 

I did ask him your question as they were preparing to get in the pool, not sure if that made a difference. :p

[Farrar]

My dd6 did it, my dh39 could not.

 

On iPad so keepin it short.

:lol:

 

I wonder if this research is sort of like the research about how crawling longer leads to better readers - which is to say, only true on a macro level when you average *every* kid together and with individuals there may or may not be a correlation.

[meggie]

My five year old repeated the numbers you had with no problem. He started reading when he was 3 and I would call him a fluent reader. At least I think so, I'm not sure what grade level he'd be at, but I would guess at least 1st.

 

He thought it was fun and wanted to do more, so I came up with two more sets. He switched some of the numbers. Now I'm going to try and get him to memorize my cell number, in case of an emergency.

[Veritaserum]

My six-year-old can read fluently and can't repeat back the numbers. This surprises me because she typically has a very good memory. She has had fairly intense phonics instruction this year (Phonics Road 1).

[katilac]

:lol:

 

I wonder if this research is sort of like the research about how crawling longer leads to better readers - which is to say, only true on a macro level when you average *every* kid together and with individuals there may or may not be a correlation.

 

I'm not familiar with the research you're referencing, but I'm willing to bet they (the original study) didn't say that crawling longer leads to better readers, but simply that it correlates. Someone else may definitely have made that implication - usually, the people who try to equate correlation to causation are selling something ;). Now that I think about it, it makes me think of Glenn Doman, of brain injury/teach your baby to read fame.

 

You are absolutely correct about individuals vs the group. Correlations always refer to the overall results, and an individual can always defy the correlation. So, Person A can state that there is a correlation between verbal memory and fluent reading, and be absolutely correct. Person B can state that their child has poor verbal memory but is a fluent reader, and also be absolutely correct.

[katilac]

katilac,

 

Do you know of specific strategies to improve short-term verbal memory?

 

Just a caveat: I don't know enough about the research to even say that I do or don't think that improving short-term verbal memory will help build reading fluency. But, even if it doesn't, I personally do think there are plenty of other benefits. Some things that may help:

 

practice - if they can't repeat six random numbers, start with just two or three and work your way up; do the same for words (both random words and words with meaning, like intstructions). start at a point where they can get everything right and inch forward, like verbal copywork.

 

long-term, musical training of any kind

 

Simon Says and similar games can be very helpful in focusing attention and building the habit of truly listening (you can't remember what you didn't really hear). what's that cranium game that tells players to hop to the yellow sqaure, walk to the purple triangle, etc? that's a great one for littles. any type of game that relies on verbal interaction can be helpful.

 

and, hmmm, I know there's more I'm not thinking of, I'll post as I remember.

[Hedgehogs4]

I tried twice with my daughter and she could get the numbers, but not in order. She is a reader, but not fluent yet. I would say there is a correlation.

[crazyforlatin]

 

It's strange to me that my son can't do this, yet can memorize a long poem just by hearing it 5 or so times on a CD and can play his violin quite well by ear.

 

I think that's great he can memorize a poem just by hearing it several times. That's harder than saying a string of 6 numbers. And playing the violin by ear? Wow!

 

Maybe it's easier for him to remember a poem because it has rhythm, rhyme, and a certain pattern, and with the violin, there is harmony, whereas these numbers are just random and doesn't mean anything to him. Is this really something to be worried about at this age?

[Chelli]

Here's one of the reading-to-read tests I heard at a homeschool convention once...

 

If your child cannot skip yet, you will not be able to teach them to read. A child must have the physical ability to skip before they are ready to learn to read. :confused:

 

Not sure what this has to do with reading, but there you have it.

[Whereneverever]

Here's one of the reading-to-read tests I heard at a homeschool convention once...

 

If your child cannot skip yet, you will not be able to teach them to read. A child must have the physical ability to skip before they are ready to learn to read. :confused:

 

Not sure what this has to do with reading, but there you have it.

 

I've heard that one, too- but I don't believe it. Anecdotal evidence- DD1 learned to skip less then 6 months ago. Before that she'd read the Chronicles of Narnia, 2 Harry Potter books, ect.

[skueppers]

My 6-year-old is a strong reader, but can only repeat 2 numbers correctly from a six-number sequence.

 

I do know her listening skills are weak, though.

[Spock]

Is there really a correlation between being able to repeat a string of six numbers and reading ability? I'm asking based on information presented during a HS convention this week.

 

I have a 6 year old who reads but not well. He still sounds out all but the most frequently used words. He can not repeat a series of 6 numbers back to me. Can your six year old do this? (for example, say to him/her 609516 in a monotone voice with a slight pause between each number). If your child can do this, is he/she a 'good' reader?

 

It's strange to me that my son can't do this, yet can memorize a long poem just by hearing it 5 or so times on a CD and can play his violin quite well by ear.

 

I just tried this out with my 9yo and 10yo. My 9yo reversed two numbers near the end. My 10yo scrambled several numbers and omitted one. Though my 10yo is mildly dyslexic (perhaps explaining the scrambling), both she and her younger brother read fluently.

 

So, this is not an infallible test for reading readiness.

[MaMa2005]

DS is 5 and repeated them back easily. He was reading at 4 and reads fluently at an eighth grade level now.

[Ellyndria]

Six year old DS reads well. He couldn't do it. He would get the first number wrong, replacing it with another number later in the sequence, but he would get about three numbers right later in the sequence. However, he does well with the short dictation sentences in AAS2 with me only reading them once. I think for some people it might be harder to repeat back a string of meaningless numbers, than it would be a sentence or a poem.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Ellyndria

[i.love.lucy]

My son is 6.5 and not yet reading. He can sound out cvc words in BOB books.

 

He rattled off those numbers after hearing them once, no problem.

[aliya]

A year ago, my (then) 8 year old could not repeat a string of 6 numbers. He also could read, but had close to zero comprehension. He could not remember the beginning of the sentence by the time he got to the end of it. He could not remember his math instructions by the time he got to the first problem. He was diagnosed with problems with his working memory. He's been through pretty intensive treatment, and all issues have improved drastically. So I'd say yes, they are related. I'd keep an eye on it. My two cents.

[RahRah]

DS6 (will be 7 in August) did it - but his listening comprehension and verbal skills are off the charts and he's advanced in math, the kid loves numbers.....reading, on the other hand, he's on grade for first grade - very basic reading at this point.

[Guest]

.

[teachmejoy]

My 6 yo ds said all of them except the last number and reads on a 3rd grade reading level. I tried it again with different numbers and he couldn't do any of them.

[Hericane]

There's not a clear correlation between numbers and reading. Some people remember phone numbers, but can't tell you the person's name. Different parts of the brain are used in verbal and numeric reasoning.

[boscopup]

I just gave my 6 year old this test. He skipped the 1 toward the end, so only said 5 of the numbers.

 

He reads at close to a 5th grade level with excellent comprehension. In fact, he learns best by reading something himself. I'll bet if he'd read the numbers, he would have been able to recite them. ;)

[Missouri Okie]

There's not a clear correlation between numbers and reading. Some people remember phone numbers, but can't tell you the person's name. Different parts of the brain are used in verbal and numeric reasoning.

 

That makes sense. If I think about it logically, to improve his reading, my son needs to practice reading, not practice memorizing random strings of numbers as the speaker at the HS conference suggested. Although learning strings of numbers after one hearing (such as telephone numbers) would be a good skill to have too.

[boscopup]

Here's one of the reading-to-read tests I heard at a homeschool convention once...

 

If your child cannot skip yet, you will not be able to teach them to read. A child must have the physical ability to skip before they are ready to learn to read. :confused:

 

Not sure what this has to do with reading, but there you have it.

 

I heard that too, and recently I had my son skip (again, reading at about a 5th grade level, with excellent comprehension)... It was hilarious watching him try! :lol:

 

Though weeks later, he skipped while we were heading outside, and I was like :confused: because he couldn't do that just weeks ago. Either way though, it obviously had nothing to do with his reading ability. :tongue_smilie:

[Nart]

I just looked at the tables in the back of the manual for the WISC-IV, which is one of the most used intelligence tests for children. The WISC–IV US standardization sample consisted of 2,200 children between the ages of 6 and 16 years 11 months.

 

For 6 year olds only 23% of children could remember a string of 6 or more digits; 55% of 6 year olds could remember at least 5 digits; and 91% could remember at least a 4 digit span. So only be slightly concerned if your 6 year old can't remember at least 4 digits.

 

When looking at the norms for older children 54% of 9 year olds could remember at least 6 digits, while 82% of 16 year olds could remember at least 6 digits.