How would you explain this?

[sadiegirl]

:lol::lol: I am LOVING some of the comments on this thread!!! So needed a good laugh today!

I like to say my thoughts are PLEASE leave SOMETHING to my SON's Imagination.

[Mrs Mungo]

I've never seen the "Juicy" pants, but I see girls wearing "Pink" pants all the time (with a shirt, not a bra). What's your opinion, slutty or not?

 

*I* would not say it's "slutty," because I don't think the way you dress advertises your sexual looseness (or lack thereof), no matter what some people may think about it. I've known promiscuous girls who dressed extremely modestly. I don't like connecting the two at all.

 

Is "Pink" more than just a brand name?

 

I think it is meant to bring something else to mind.

[Perry]

I think it is meant to bring something else to mind.

I never thought about it until I read this thread. I am SO dense. :001_huh:

[Cheryl in NM]

I am bothered by the idea that women are responsible for men's thoughts, but don't you think it would have been even worse if you had been dressed like a Hooters waitress?

 

I've never said that women are "responsible" for mens thoughts. I've said our actions have consequences. When you dress like you are advertising your body, others see it as an advertisement. Recognizing that shows that you notice your personal impact on others around you. We are not islands.

[sarawatsonim]

I am bothered by the idea that women are responsible for men's thoughts, but don't you think it would have been even worse if you had been dressed like a Hooters waitress?

 

Isn't the point of Hooters to go and look at the Hooters? I could never work there anyway seeing I am not gifted in the hooter area.:tongue_smilie: But, there is a difference working at said Hooters, getting upset over being ogled and propositioned and walking down the street and getting the same treatment because someone feels you are dressed suggestively for their tastes. I don't like Juicy pants because they are just not my style, not because I think they make the wearer look less worthy of my respect.

[Carol in Cal.]

Pink? PINK? Now the word pink is nasty? Give me a break.

 

I can honestly say that the interpretation in this thread has never occurred to me, and that although I agree with the thread interpretation of juicy more or less, I disagree with the one of pink. I think pink means female and proud of it, and that it's empowering. Having said that, it's put on some inappropriate clothes at times, like every other word in the English language these days.

[LidiyaDawn]

And while I think the wording might have been wrong, I tend to agree with the officer's statement. If you dress in a way that sexually arouses males that are at the peak of their sexuality, you are potentially asking for trouble.

 

 

:001_huh:

 

This is the sort of thinking that gets used against sexual assault victims.

[Mrs Mungo]

Pink? PINK? Now the word pink is nasty? Give me a break.

 

I can honestly say that the interpretation in this thread has never occurred to me, and that although I agree with the thread interpretation of juicy more or less, I disagree with the one of pink. I think pink means female and proud of it, and that it's empowering. Having said that, it's put on some inappropriate clothes at times, like every other word in the English language these days.

 

I didn't say the word was nasty!!! I said *in the context* of being put on the a** of women by Victoria's Secret, I think it is meant to bring something else to mind. Didn't they use the Aerosmith song for their fashion show? Because the song is *definitely* meant to bring something particular to mind.

 

:001_huh:

 

This is the sort of thinking that gets used against sexual assault victims.

 

:iagree:

[Carol in Cal.]

:001_huh:

 

This is the sort of thinking that gets used against sexual assault victims.

 

Right. Blaming the victim is never appropriate.

 

And I say that although I would not allow my dd to EVER wear butt words.

[Mommy22alyns]

I've never seen the "Juicy" pants, but I see girls wearing "Pink" pants all the time (with a shirt, not a bra). What's your opinion, slutty or not? Is "Pink" more than just a brand name?

 

 

For us, ANY butt-writing is out. I don't care if it's a brand name or the President's name, it's not going across anyone's @$$ in this house. :glare:

[cjbeach]

I think unfortunately these sweats have gone mainstream and no amount of explaining how crazy it all may be, will get through to her. Maybe I'd go with that and tell her that the look is "out" because it was copied and ripped-off to infinity. Tell her that every flea market has taken the Juicy name and copied it across cheapie sweats. The look is btdt, over, etc.... :confused: Maybe? :confused:

 

Here @the beach the new-ish trend is the Flashdance shirts again (bigger shirts with cut necks with a tank or bathing suit under it) and leggings. Cut-off shorts abound here as well.

[T'smom]

I think that interpretation of the Pink brand is going a bit far. I have a robe that says Pink across the back and slipper-socks that say Pink on the side. The robe is not a sexy one. I think they just like to plaster the Pink name on everything.

[Pretty in Pink]

I don't think that girls who wear pants with words on the butt look slutty. I am kind of...bewildered?...to see that word being used here. I think butt-words look tacky. I think that butt-word attire *can* draw the wrong kind of attention. Lots of teens wear butt-word sweats with a loose tee and flip flops. Tacky? I think so. Slutty? Nope, not IMO. Tight, butt-word dance shorts with a half shirt in the middle of Walmart? Not my preference, but I don't really notice, nor do I care. Around here it's not uncommon for families to run into Walmart during the summer in their beach attire -- bikini tops, shorts, and sandals. I don't think those girls or mothers look slutty, either.

[cin]

:001_huh:

 

This is the sort of thinking that gets used against sexual assault victims.

 

 

I'm not saying that sexual assault victims are to blame. Not at all. Men/Boys should be able to say no. But I don't think certain outfits helps them. Just as sitting a plate of brownies in the middle of a group of women helps them say no. If I'm on a diet, I would prefer not to have brownies around. But there they are. I can say no and should say no, but I'm tempted. And my body is reacting, whether I want it to or not. My nose is smelling them, my mouth is watering...But even still, *I* am responsible for the decision I am making.

 

I think they way girls dress can make it more difficult for boys to make the right decision. If there's a Sex Offender around, then they are definitely putting themself at a higher risk. We don't always know where the sex offenders are. And again, we're not responsible for their behavior, but don't take an alcoholic to a bar.

[Ottakee]

My husband works in the prison system with mostly sex offenders. HE can tell your daughter a great deal about why she would not want to dress like that..............and many sex offenders are not the "scuzzy" guys you would think.

[Dana]

re: pink

I think it is meant to bring something else to mind.

 

I'd never made that connection to Victoria's Secret... but... I read Jenna Jamison's autobiography a couple of years ago (very sad about the porn industry) and the line "show me the pink" was in one of her early photo shoots. Urban Dictionary has the same meaning.

 

Again... not something I'd have considered, Mrs. Mungo... but now I won't be able to think of anything else with VS. I don't think it's a far stretch either.

[pdalley]

For us, ANY butt-writing is out. I don't care if it's a brand name or the President's name, it's not going across anyone's @$$ in this house. :glare:

 

My boys have expressed no desire to have writing across their rears. I would never wear anything with writing across my own as I fear it would say....

 

WIDE LOAD

 

I seriously asked a salesgirl once if the low slung pants that don't ever seem to be going out of style came with a wide load sign. My rear is large enough without calling undue attention to it.

 

I would not allow my daughter to wear anything with writing on the rear unless she lived on her own. I still wouldn't like it and I think it sends the wrong message.

[SnowWhite]

I would think looking at urban dictionary's definition of juicy would give pause to the idea of having it written on one's bum.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think pink means female and proud of it, and that it's empowering.

 

I know I already quoted this, but I had one other thought. What makes you think a company like Victoria's Secret considers female empowerment and female sexuality divorced from one another? This is an underwear line and you guys don't believe it has a sexual connotation? Really?

[AuntieM]

Next time you are out and about, if you happen to see any creepy, lecherous men about, nudge your daughter and say, "Hey, do you think he's cute?". Do this a few times (your dd will think you are crazy). Then tell her that when she wears a$$-vertising, THESE are the men whose attention she is attracting. It's not just the cute guys in her peer group. There's no off switch for the message she's sending; it goes out to every male who sees it, and is perhaps most "appreciated" by the types of men you've just been pointing out.

[Carol in Cal.]

I didn't say the word was nasty!!! I said *in the context* of being put on the a** of women by Victoria's Secret, I think it is meant to bring something else to mind. Didn't they use the Aerosmith song for their fashion show? Because the song is *definitely* meant to bring something particular to mind.

 

 

 

 

Carp. I didn't know the Pink line was by VS. The OP about it did not say that. The UD quote was a surprise, too I guess I am more sheltered than I would have thought.

[littlebug42]

The one hard and fast rule in our home set down by dh for the girls clothing is no writing on the behind. He works on a college campus and finds it wildly inappropriate. He pretty much leaves the rest to me but no butt writing. Dd7 has one pair and I had to remind him that his mother bought them and he needed to take it up with her. Drives him crazy.

[Mrs Mungo]

Carp. I didn't know the Pink line was by VS. The OP about it did not say that. The UD quote was a surprise, too I guess I am more sheltered than I would have thought.

 

Ooooh, I see. Yes, the Pink line is from VS.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I know I already quoted this, but I had one other thought. What makes you think a company like Victoria's Secret considers female empowerment and female sexuality divorced from one another? This is an underwear line and you guys don't believe it has a sexual connotation? Really?

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[ZooRho]

Ooooh, I see. Yes, the Pink line is from VS.

yikes, the things you can learn from the internet. my eyes are hurting.

 

I will say I had a friend whose ds used the VS catalog as his choice of "porn" when he was really young. She never imagined. She quickly got off the mailing list

[MorganClassicalPrep]

I never thought about it until I read this thread. I am SO dense. :001_huh:

 

I totally missed the Pink connection also... :tongue_smilie:

 

I am sure I will get flamed for this but, it's also not my daughters jobs to make males think pure thoughts. They will have enough to deal with growing up.

 

:iagree:I want my daughter to dress with some respect for herself, because... well, to have respect for herself! I just don't think it is appropriate for girls (or women!) to be hanging out all over the place, nor is it attractive.

But really, some guys have foot fetishes. Should we all stop wearing flip flops? No... and it's the same theory.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I know, I used to love the Aerosmith song, but I went and looked up the lyrics after reading this thread. Boy, that one sailed right over my head, LOL.

[stripe]

Just wondering --

 

What does it mean to have empowering underwear?

 

How do people know you're wearing it?

 

If you are empowered by your underwear, do people need to see it (e.g. the panty line, or the thong sticking out, waist high waist band coming out of your low cut jeans, ...) in order to know that you are empowered by your underwear?

 

Or do you just have that something about you that makes people think, "Hmm, I bet she's wearing a silky lace empowering thong! What a woman!"

 

These are serious questions.

 

As opposed to something like Spanx or other forms of corsetry, where the item produces an effect (slimming, sucking, smoothness) but the garment itself is not the object of desire.

[Parrothead]

I'm not saying that sexual assault victims are to blame. Not at all. Men/Boys should be able to say no. But I don't think certain outfits helps them. Just as sitting a plate of brownies in the middle of a group of women helps them say no. If I'm on a diet, I would prefer not to have brownies around. But there they are. I can say no and should say no, but I'm tempted. And my body is reacting, whether I want it to or not. My nose is smelling them, my mouth is watering...But even still, *I* am responsible for the decision I am making.

 

I think they way girls dress can make it more difficult for boys to make the right decision. If there's a Sex Offender around, then they are definitely putting themself at a higher risk. We don't always know where the sex offenders are. And again, we're not responsible for their behavior, but don't take an alcoholic to a bar.

This would make sense if sexual assault/rape was about sex. It isn't. It doesn't really matter what the victim wears or where she works or who she hangs around with. Nuns have been sexually assaulted/raped.

[kamom]

This would make sense if sexual assault/rape was about sex. It isn't. It doesn't really matter what the victim wears or where she works or who she hangs around with. Nuns have been sexually assaulted/raped.

 

 

Yes, sexual assault does happen to all types, BUT what we wear DOES have an effect on the opposite sex. As was mentioned before it has an effect that we might not want in some men, this has been proven in surveys. Especially men who have problems in this area.

[SailorMom]

I didn't read everything, but this thread - the first few posts - reminded me of a comedian's act:

He says that all these teen girls with "juicy" on thier butts are turning him into an unwilling pedophile. He doesn't want to look - but a 16 yo's read isn't much different than that of an 18 or 20 yo's rear, and the eyes just go to the words automatically.....

[Parrothead]

Yes, sexual assault does happen to all types, BUT what we wear DOES have an effect on the opposite sex. As was mentioned before it has an effect that we might not want in some men, this has been proven in surveys. Especially men who have problems in this area.

Surveys? Surveys of whom? Men sitting in correctional facilities? What do you define as a "problem in this area?" Should we all were burqa and hijab just in case some man gets excited about seeing a well turned ankle?

 

You show me modest dress and I'll show you how easily a perv can twist it around so it was all the modestly dressed woman's fault.

 

It doesn't matter what the woman (or even the sexually assaulted man) was wearing. It is a power play. It isn't about sex.

[Mrs Mungo]

Surveys? Surveys of whom? Men sitting in correctional facilities? What do you define as a "problem in this area?" Should we all were burqa and hijab just in case some man gets excited about seeing a well turned ankle?

 

You show me modest dress and I'll show you how easily a perv can twist it around so it was all the modestly dressed woman's fault.

 

It doesn't matter what the woman (or even the sexually assaulted man) was wearing. It is a power play. It isn't about sex.

 

:iagree:

 

Again, I don't allow writing on the butt of clothing. I don't buy my young girls t-shirts that say "flirt." But, extending that protection of childhood to the idea that otherwise they will be tempting men is disturbing.

[lionfamily1999]

I didn't read everything, but this thread - the first few posts - reminded me of a comedian's act:

He says that all these teen girls with "juicy" on thier butts are turning him into an unwilling pedophile. He doesn't want to look - but a 16 yo's read isn't much different than that of an 18 or 20 yo's rear, and the eyes just go to the words automatically.....

A friend of ours dated a girl for two months (tG they were not "active") before he found out she was 15. He's in his thirties, thought he was dating a young twenties, only to find out how long he could have been incarcerated when he 'caught' her on a field trip for school.

 

I do think that dress plays a role in how others see us. I'm pretty sure that's why hookers dress a particular way, so it's very clear what they're doing.

 

Ironically, this girl dressed like a woman and he assumed she was finishing up college. She was smart and well read and he had no idea she was so young. So, it's not just dressing like a workin' gal (iykwIm) that can cause people to assume particular wrong things about you. IOW, darned if you do, darned if you don't. Sure, she wasn't getting assaulted, he had oodles of respect for her (he saw her abstaining from alcohol as maturity), but she was still ... ugh, I can't think of the word. He still thought something particular and wrong about her because of her dress habits.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

What does it mean to have empowering underwear?

 

How do people know you're wearing it?

 

 

The original 'pink' example in this thread was not underwear, and when I talked about how pink could be empowering I did not A) associate it with underwear, B) associate it with VS.

 

I just think that when someone takes something that is used as a put down and reclaims it, it is empowering--I Am Woman, Hear Me Roar. So I interpreted the original pink thing in that kind of way. (Also in utter and profound ignorance, as others have been kind enough to clarify.)

 

Having said that, sure there is such a thing as empowering underwear, and it doesn't have to be seen. It just has to make you feel like you're more attractive (secretly) or more grown up or something. You can derive some confidence boost from that, like from any makeover. It certainly does not have to be seen. Hello! What about all those movies with the very attractive woman under the shell of her old-fashioned clothes or whatever? It's classic. (But not classical :lol:)

[clarkacademy]

I just googled Duggar swim wear to see what I would get. I came across a forum where grown men were remarking how hot those girls were. My daughter is a jeans and t-shirts kinda girl and very picky about showing things she does not want seen. That be as it is, in public many times I have caught grown men looking at my daughter. It is a part of life it's that simple. No I do not agree with the way most girls dress at all but I will be darned if I will ever tell a girl her clothes caused it. Maybe if boys were taught better it wouldn't be an issue. Maybe if our genetic make-up was not prone to look to the opposite sex it wouldn't be an issue. I have noticed most on these forums about "our rights". It is our right to homeschool, we don't care that it takes down public school funding. We don't care it makes schools look bad when we are bluntly honest about not wanting our children there.. Choices of clothing while again some choices are disgusting in my opinion are a persons right. I have boys who are going to grow up and look at girls. I can only hope I do a great job of teaching them the right things. My daughters will not grow up trying to get any point across about boys looking at them. That should have been done at their homes with their parents. If we are gonna raise our girls to always think about making others pure then we have a problem. This all goes back to boys will be boys mentality and that is just sad. Until a person is actually assaulted I don't think they will realize that no matter what that person did not ask for it. In risk of sounding even more rude it is not my job to help other people who have sons to keep their thoughts pure. I didn't ask for it when I was 6 years old wearing a swim suit at a public pool and no other girl is asking for it. I also want to make it clear there is nothing provocative about my girls clothes. They would never choose to wear clothes like that because they respect themselves because I have taught them too. I think it is sad that alot of boys and men even are not taught to respect women.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I just googled Duggar swim wear to see what I would get. I came across a forum where grown men were remarking how hot those girls were. My daughter is a jeans and t-shirts kinda girl and very picky about showing things she does not want seen. That be as it is, in public many times I have caught grown men looking at my daughter. It is a part of life it's that simple. No I do not agree with the way most girls dress at all but I will be darned if I will ever tell a girl her clothes caused it. Maybe if boys were taught better it wouldn't be an issue. Maybe if our genetic make-up was not prone to look to the opposite sex it wouldn't be an issue. I have noticed most on these forums about "our rights". It is our right to homeschool, we don't care that it takes down public school funding. We don't care it makes schools look bad when we are bluntly honest about not wanting our children there.. Choices of clothing while again some choices are disgusting in my opinion are a persons right. I have boys who are going to grow up and look at girls. I can only hope I do a great job of teaching them the right things. My daughters will not grow up trying to get any point across about boys looking at them. That should have been done at their homes with their parents. If we are gonna raise our girls to always think about making others pure then we have a problem. This all goes back to boys will be boys mentality and that is just sad. Until a person is actually assaulted I don't think they will realize that no matter what that person did not ask for it. In risk of sounding even more rude it is not my job to help other people who have sons to keep their thoughts pure. I didn't ask for it when I was 6 years old wearing a swim suit at a public pool and no other girl is asking for it. I also want to make it clear there is nothing provocative about my girls clothes. They would never choose to wear clothes like that because they respect themselves because I have taught them too. I think it is sad that alot of boys and men even are not taught to respect women.

 

No I don't think that it is the victim's fault if she is assaulted.

 

Yes, I do think that we need to teach out children how to be prudent. That means that when we took a vacation in one country, the warm fleeces that happened to match the colors of a hard line nationalist political party there stayed at home. It means that I teach my kids that pointing cardboard "guns" at other cars when we're driving might incite return fire. It means that I will have to teach them that some prefectly good fan gear for perfectly good sports teams has been appropriated into gang wear in certain areas at certain times (Raiders, Georgetown spring to mind, but I'm probably dating myself.) and that wearing them in certain neighborhoods might elicit comment or negative actions.

 

Yes I am, have and will teach my sons to respect women. Do women also have to respect men? Or is it ok to dress in a way that exposes bre@sts or butt0cks and then say they were misunderstood when the men and boys react to what is on display?

 

Again, I'm not saying that an assaulted woman "had it coming". I am saying that it seems to me that do our children a disservice to act like choices and actions are consequence free. When I interview a student for my alma mater, I will form a certain impression if he or she shows up in a jacket, in a nice shirt & tie or blouse, in an aloha shirt with shorts or in a raggedy tee shirt. A raggedy tee shirt is not appropriate to the situation.

 

Yoga pants and a sports bra are great for the gym, but not great for the coffee shop or the mall.

 

This is not to say that women need to have long skirts that don't show ankles or that they need to conceal themselves from men, because the men "can't help themselves". I consider that "can't help themselves" arguement a lack of character too.

 

What it is to say is that there still are some cultural assumptions attached to how women dress (despite the best efforts of Madonna and Lady Gaga - or because of them). I think that we need to key our children in on those cultural assumptions.

 

In the same way, while I can say some of my favorite teens and young men have piercings and long hair, I will not let my sons go into similar styles without discussing with them the cultural presumptions they will be working against.

[Murphy101]

:iagree:

 

Again, I don't allow writing on the butt of clothing. I don't buy my young girls t-shirts that say "flirt." But, extending that protection of childhood to the idea that otherwise they will be tempting men is disturbing.

 

Me too.

 

There is no such thing as a sexual assault bc a guy couldn't control himself.

 

Sexual assault is the result of someone who WANTS to hurt another and flat out not only does not want to control the urge, but feels entitled to inflict themselves on others.

 

Comparing the rape of someone to a guy who just can't say no to the brownie offered is ridiculous and ignorant about sexual assault is and how predators think.

[stripe]

Surveys? Surveys of whom? Men sitting in correctional facilities? What do you define as a "problem in this area?" Should we all were burqa and hijab just in case some man gets excited about seeing a well turned ankle?

 

You show me modest dress and I'll show you how easily a perv can twist it around so it was all the modestly dressed woman's fault.

 

And Muslim women, nuns, Orthodox Jewish women, and other women are raped too. Witness the horrifying attack on Iman al Obeidi in Libya.

 

That being said, there are two issues at work: one is what people should do, i.e. act morally. Murder, theft, and rape are all wrong.

 

There is also another important factor at work, though. That is one's own desire to avoid crimes and unfortunate happenings through one's own behavior. That is why most people lock their doors, avoid dark alleys, and not flash handfuls of cash around. It does not make you at fault if you are the victim, but most of us want to do things to reduce our chances of being vulnerable to criminals. I am troubled at young women's lack of understanding about safety. Going to a frat house and getting drunk does not enable that young woman. That does not make frat party rapes the victims' fault by any means. But I wish they made better choices to protect themselves, because unfortunately there are predators out there. I think flinging yourself on the whims of fate, as it were, and not taking ANY precautions is not well advised.

 

This is not, however, so much about clothing, to me.

 

Are pants that have words on the butt, really that comfortable to sit on?

Edited April 15, 2011 by stripe

[clarkacademy]

No I don't think that it is the victim's fault if she is assaulted.

 

Yes, I do think that we need to teach out children how to be prudent. That means that when we took a vacation in one country, the warm fleeces that happened to match the colors of a hard line nationalist political party there stayed at home. It means that I teach my kids that pointing cardboard "guns" at other cars when we're driving might incite return fire. It means that I will have to teach them that some prefectly good fan gear for perfectly good sports teams has been appropriated into gang wear in certain areas at certain times (Raiders, Georgetown spring to mind, but I'm probably dating myself.) and that wearing them in certain neighborhoods might elicit comment or negative actions.

 

Yes I agree with you there I worry about such type of stuff myself especially in some of the areas around here!

 

Yes I am, have and will teach my sons to respect women. Do women also have to respect men? Or is it ok to dress in a way that exposes bre@sts or butt0cks and then say they were misunderstood when the men and boys react to what is on display?

 

No I do not in any way think this is all right at all!!!! I also agree women should be taught to respect men as well. They shpould also learn respect for them selves

 

Again, I'm not saying that an assaulted woman "had it coming". I am saying that it seems to me that do our children a disservice to act like choices and actions are consequence free. When I interview a student for my alma mater, I will form a certain impression if he or she shows up in a jacket, in a nice shirt & tie or blouse, in an aloha shirt with shorts or in a raggedy tee shirt. A raggedy tee shirt is not appropriate to the situation.

 

You are right on spot there. Wish kids would learn the difference between casual and really casual lol.

 

Yoga pants and a sports bra are great for the gym, but not great for the coffee shop or the mall.

 

This is not to say that women need to have long skirts that don't show ankles or that they need to conceal themselves from men, because the men "can't help themselves". I consider that "can't help themselves" arguement a lack of character too.

 

That was my main point that I think I lost because I tend to rattle when I am mad. Alot of the posts on this thread had a boys will be boys type ring to them and that is what in my eyes is horrible. I mean that is the atitude that keeps women with abusive husbands and makes women into second class citizens. That is the mentality that really ticks me off. It's o.k. for a man to have wondering eyes, s#xual relationships outside of marriage even affairs for that matter but our girls should be held more accountable yet treated like a lower life form.

 

What it is to say is that there still are some cultural assumptions attached to how women dress (despite the best efforts of Madonna and Lady Gaga - or because of them). I think that we need to key our children in on those cultural assumptions.

 

In the same way, while I can say some of my favorite teens and young men have piercings and long hair, I will not let my sons go into similar styles without discussing with them the cultural presumptions they will be working against.

 

Yes that is a sad thing people will look at the book so to speak and judge by the cover. I do teach the girls what people say about a certain type of clothes and why be the tempting one anyway. To be truthful I grew up on a beach and lived in a swim suit the better part of my life and really never thought much until I started noticing men looking at my girls. I realize no matter how we dress them people are going to look but why bother being the one to scream hey over here my b@@bs are hanging out. It really worries me when people have the, "Well he's a guy it can't be helped atitude".

[Impish]

Just to kill her, I'd put them on and insist she accompany me somewhere, maybe her school.

:lol::iagree:

[Murphy101]

Yes that is a sad thing people will look at the book so to speak and judge by the cover. I do teach the girls what people say about a certain type of clothes and why be the tempting one anyway. To be truthful I grew up on a beach and lived in a swim suit the better part of my life and really never thought much until I started noticing men looking at my girls. I realize no matter how we dress them people are going to look but why bother being the one to scream hey over here my b@@bs are hanging out. It really worries me when people have the, "Well he's a guy it can't be helped atitude".

 

It is NOT a boys will be boys or men just can't help themselves attitude in this house. That is total crap and insult to REAL men.

 

I have no doubt a boy or a man might notice a female and think she is attractive or sexy. Big whoop. Women do that all the time too, tho I'm sure a few like to pretend they don't have a sex drive.

 

It is the notion that a woman is asking for assault (which is the same thing as saying she is tempting a man to commit it) simply bc she does look sexy or attractive that I find objectionable and an insult to most men.

 

The presumption that all men think like predators is disgustingly insulting to all healthy normal men.

 

As a wife to a dang fine man in every sense of the word and the mother of almost 7 sons we are working hard to make just as fine of character, I'm frustrated that this is how women view men and are portrayed in media.

 

I don't claim predators do not exist. I know they do.

But it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the victim's looks or wardrobe.

NOTHING. Anyone saying otherwise is completely ignorant about what sexual assault is and how the screwed up mind of the predator thinks.

[kolamum]

My reply would have been Biblical and had she stated she didn't understand she'd have been left with a Bible, pen, and paper in her hand to study it out herself. :)

[Parrothead]

And Muslim women, nuns, Orthodox Jewish women, and other women are raped too. Witness the horrifying attack on Iman al Obeidi in Libya.

 

That being said, there are two issues at work: one is what people should do, i.e. act morally. Murder, theft, and rape are all wrong.

 

There is also another important factor at work, though. That is one's own desire to avoid crimes and unfortunate happenings through one's own behavior. That is why most people lock their doors, avoid dark alleys, and not flash handfuls of cash around. It does not make you at fault if you are the victim, but most of us want to do things to reduce our chances of being vulnerable to criminals. I am troubled at young women's lack of understanding about safety. Going to a frat house and getting drunk does not enable that young woman. That does not make frat party rapes the victims' fault by any means. But I wish they made better choices to protect themselves, because unfortunately there are predators out there. I think flinging yourself on the whims of fate, as it were, and not taking ANY precautions is not well advised.

 

This is not, however, so much about clothing, to me.

 

Are pants that have words on the butt, really that comfortable to sit on?

Oh, yes. I'm all for being proactive. I agree if young women are taught not to fall to peer pressure and have handy reasons/excuses not to go to frat parties the incident of frat party rapes will drop significantly. The same with cruising bars as they get older.

 

I was just pointing out that what one wears really is not what the typical rapist focuses on. Generally rape/sexual assault is a crime of opportunity if it isn't a crime against a relative.

[clarkacademy]

It is NOT a boys will be boys or men just can't help themselves attitude in this house. That is total crap and insult to REAL men.

 

I have no doubt a boy or a man might notice a female and think she is attractive or sexy. Big whoop. Women do that all the time too, tho I'm sure a few like to pretend they don't have a sex drive.

 

It is the notion that a woman is asking for assault (which is the same thing as saying she is tempting a man to commit it) simply bc she does look sexy or attractive that I find objectionable and an insult to most men.

 

The presumption that all men think like predators is disgustingly insulting to all healthy normal men.

 

As a wife to a dang fine man in every sense of the word and the mother of almost 7 sons we are working hard to make just as fine of character, I'm frustrated that this is how women view men and are portrayed in media.

 

I don't claim predators do not exist. I know they do.

But it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the victim's looks or wardrobe.

NOTHING. Anyone saying otherwise is completely ignorant about what sexual assault is and how the screwed up mind of the predator thinks.

 

I am thinking you only read part of my post because this was what I had stated as well. It had nothing to do with the victim it was the man. I don't view all men as potential offenders, I have boys as well and it would tear me up to think one would look upon them that way. That was my issue the seemingly boys will be boys type atitude I was reading. I am sorry if I worded wrong or it didn't come out right from your post it seems you are angry and please don't be. Sadly in society boys are taught to act this way from the media I agree with you. Our girls are sexualized from toddler hood. I am sure you are doing a wonderful job and I hope you read all my posts on this thread not just the part you quoted.

[LibraryLover]

Teenagers can be silly. :D It might be nothing more than that.

[Murphy101]

I am thinking you only read part of my post because this was what I had stated as well. It had nothing to do with the victim it was the man. I don't view all men as potential offenders, I have boys as well and it would tear me up to think one would look upon them that way. That was my issue the seemingly boys will be boys type atitude I was reading. I am sorry if I worded wrong or it didn't come out right from your post it seems you are angry and please don't be. Sadly in society boys are taught to act this way from the media I agree with you. Our girls are sexualized from toddler hood. I am sure you are doing a wonderful job and I hope you read all my posts on this thread not just the part you quoted.

 

 

No, tho I quoted you, it was more in response to SOCIETY and women in general than you personally.

 

Personally, I feel terrible for boys and men these days.

 

They just can't win with women and get nothing but conflicting messages of what it means to be a man and what it means to love a woman.

[Peela]

I dont like butt writing myself, and so far haven't had to deal with it in dd16. If she did, both her dad and I would say something- but the way we would do it would be to tease her about it- especially her dad. He would tease her about what she was asking for from guys. He does that anyway with what she wears sometimes. We have never felt to tell her not to wear something, but we will tell her what we think, every now and then, and then leave it to her discretion.

 

But she wears plenty of things that I am sure wouldn't pass the modesty test around here. Mostly, its tasteful and she has her own unique sense of style and we have no problem with her looking outrageously gorgeous and sexy within reason. She doesn't look slutty though.

 

I think sometimes adults forget what its like to be young.

[lula]

Honestly, as a teenager it was my goal to have boys check out my butt. Booty hugging pants would have been right up my alley with or without writing. Does this make me some crazy slutty teenager? No, I think it made me pretty normal. What would have been nice is a mom who wouldn't let me wear them but also was realistic. (mine didn't really let me wear them but she also never acknowledged that it is pretty human at that age to want boys/men to like you: she went the route of "I don't think you know what boys think. Is that really the image you want projected? Etc etc"

 

Don't most 15 year old girls have a pretty good awareness of what terms like lubricated et.al. mean? Or that boys or creepy men may have sexual thoughts about them? I mean don't 15 year old girls have sexual thoughts about boys?(granted I am not equating male and female sexuality here, I fully understand differences through several close male relationships)

 

I knew I wanted to be "checked out" and I wasn't as worried about my image to random guys in the mall. Was nobody else like this? I was definitely not sexually promiscuous or looking for a guy who treated me only like a piece of meat but I was looking for a guy who liked my ass. I'm not sure that is all that horrible but I do think as parents it's our job to help guide our children into appropriate sexual expression when they are still teens. The pants would be out at my house. Maybe she thinks the pants are plain cute, maybe she wants guys to notice her: either way it's a nice wardrobe refining moment where blatant body advertising can be discouraged.

Edited April 16, 2011 by lula

[Murphy101]

Lula -

 

I think it is normal for ANY female past puberty to want to feel sexy and look sexy for the opposite gender. I don't think that alone makes anyone a slut and I don't think MOST men view it that way either. There is a world of difference between being sexy and being slutty to most men. (and women too I think)

 

We wouldn't allow the writing on the butt clothing.

 

Snug jeans? Maybe.

 

Spaghetti straps shirt? Probably.

 

Whale tale? No. (actually I can't fathom buying my dd a thong, much less seeing her about the house in it. Dh would spaz for sure.:tongue_smilie:)

 

I agree with you. It's our jobs as parents to teach our daughters how to navigate that line.