Please help me evaluate some sensitive email content.

[AuntieM]

This is correspondence from an unrelated adult to a 14 year old student (exclusively, no other adults or students copied on this message). I realize you probably need background to fully judge this message, but for the moment I ask you to just share your honest, first-impression reaction to the tone and content. Thanks.

 

(receipient's name),

 

 

 

I want to touch base with you about what happened after the Stuco meeting when you were talking to Mrs. (head of the co-op) and me. You may not have meant for this to be seen this way, but I want you to know that I was very disppointed by the way you treated me. I felt that you were very disrespectful of me as an adult and as your advisor when you were addressing the way that the meeting transpired and the apparent "lack" of an agenda. You also said that the way I had the last item on the agenda the time for "other ideas," was, "Loosy goosy." I was totally surprised at the rudeness at which you treated me. I am a teacher by trade and am still tutoring a number of students and I do not recall ever having been treated by a student this way - let alone a Christian homeschooler.

 

 

 

As a leader you are to guide people by motivation and encouragement. I felt neither of these things from you when you left. I am always open to feedback when it is given in a postive light.

 

 

 

As our Stuco President it is your duty to, "motivate the others and keep the group in a positive mood." I hope and expect that you will be able to do this for our group. The way that you shared with [another student council member's name, the sponsor/writer's daughter] today about her not writing the email properly because it did not say the word "suggestions" vs. "polls" was rudely stated as well. This was not a big deal! Next time try to thank people for their work and suggest an idea that they might think about for the next time. That way the person feels good about their work and will consider your thoughts for the future.

 

 

 

I have great expectations for you [recipient's name], and I know that you are capable of doing a great job and of being a good leader. In order to do so though, you need to be able to encourage people to see your side of the issue and to bring them along. This takes the ability of being a good listener as well.

 

 

 

The group today was talking over each other, and this is something that can be easily fixed on your and my part (if needed). I knew that everyone was excited to discuss the dance and different topics, so I did not stop it today. If I was leading the group again, this would be the first thing that I would address. Please allow them to have fun, too, [recipient's name]. They can do this and still get things accomplished as well.

 

 

 

As your Christian advisor I felt that this was my responsibility to share this with you, so that you can grow in your Christian walk and as a future leader in our society. I look forward to working with you, [receipient's name], and by being able to see the growth that you make this year.

 

 

 

Blessings,

 

Mrs. [new student council sponsor]

 

 

 

 

 

ETA: Because I am looking for initial impressions, it may be helpful to post your initial response prior to reading the other replies. Then you can post again, if you like. Thanks.

 

 

 

ETA ONE MORE TIME to say that you needn't do what I suggested in the first ETA, as I have already had quite a number of initial responses. I will continue to view comments, though, so thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2009 by AuntieM

[jonesloonybin]

I am sorry and I am not sure what to say about the christian stuff..however, I think this was a bit much. If this person had these problems with a 14 year old, then a private face to face talk would have been better. It should have been more of a gentle suggestion. Or if more was needed, I would expect the parent to be included.

 

Hope this helps.

[shinyhappypeople]

Face to face would have been better, but I don't see anything really wrong with the email.

[MariannNOVA]

I rage at individuals who think that they have access to my children -- My husband and I are the people who decide who has access to our children.

 

I would be livid if an adult sent any message to my minor child via email without me being some kind of conduit (cc'd, me forwarding the message to my child after it had been sent to me, clearing the info conveyed in the email with me first) in whatever the matter was -- but the FIRST stop is ME or DH!

 

'Electronic communication' does not make this any more appropriate than picking up a phone and saying it to a child, or taking a child aside (without another adult - preferably the child's parent present) and saying it...a parent should not be side-stepped - I do not care what role the communicating adult has in all of this. Individuals and organizations are TOO QUICK to assume that authority and access to our children has been abrogated to them.

 

What has happened to adults approaching the parent of the minor child in this situation? I find that it is the appropriate way for these things to be handled -- through the parent(s) of the minor child.

[SwimmyKids]

I think this was a bit much. If this person had these problems with a 14 year old, then a private face to face talk would have been better. It should have been more of a gentle suggestion.

 

I totally agree. If the Advisor is a teacher by trade, she should have thicker skin and more appropriate ways to deal with teenagers learning to take on leadership roles. A teenager messes up and shouldn't be called to task like this after an early, well-intentioned attempt.

 

A private discussion would have been more constructive. Then the Advisor should have modeled expected behavior at the next meeting. Then the teen should have been given the chance to lead again with the Advisor's help.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Hmmmm....

 

I think that young people DO need to learn to address situations appropriately. If this adult just didn't like being questioned, that is an issue. However, if the teen WAS rude and disrespectful in expressing her opinions, that should be addressed.

 

However, in this day and age, I do think that all correspondence (and conversation) between teens and adults should include a CC or another person present. This could have been the other person involved. It could be a parent. This is a protection for all parties. Also, it allows for a more well-rounded discussion. In this case, if the child wasn't out of place, the other adult could help this adult see they mis-read the situation. If the child was out of place, the counsel could be given in a well-thought out/explained way. If a parent is involved, they can do further coaching of their teen along the way.

 

Not sure this helps, but just my first thoughts.

[Amy loves Bud]

Well, if it's true, then it sounds like the 14 yr old needs to work on some leadership/social skills. If this is the case and this is an organization's sponsor talking to the student president of the organization, I don't find anything inappropriate.

 

If it's not true, then it sounds like the sponsor is a bit hypersensitive and needs to chill.

 

It depends on what the backstory is.

[elegantlion]

My initial response without knowing the people is that she is treating said 14 year old like they should have the reasoning and experience of an adult. I do agree this is the type of conversation that needs to happen face to face and could be worded much differently. It is almost as if she took a personal offense and turned into "well I'm telling you how wrong you were."

 

My ds isn't 14, but I'm sure at 12 he would not responded well to the e-mail. I know at 14 I would have taken many of those comments personally like I wasn't doing a good job and it was their personal cause to mold me according to their view of leadership. It would have absolutely stunted my desire to grow in that area, but I tend to internalize and take things personally.

 

As an adult I might have addressed those issues one by one in person over time. I would have made notes and allowed them to be talking points with this person but I wouldn't have written them all out in one e-mail.

[Desert Rat]

Face to face would have been preferable in my book as well. I didn't necessarily see anything wrong with the email though, without the back story. 14 is a bit young to face responsiblilities listed in the email but if the teen is indeed in a leadership role than I feel the email addresses areas where he/she can grow. It wasn't overly condescending or harsh. It ended on a positive note. I would say, suggest to Mrs. X to speak face to face in the future, even if the teen shows disrespectful behavior, which is why I think she felt the need to write versus phone.

HTH

[Snickerdoodle]

I rage at individuals who think that they have access to my children -- My husband and I are the people who decide who has access to our children.[/color]

 

 

 

I agree with this for the most part but it sounds like the 14 yo is a president (leader?) of some kind of group and as such I agree with the following:

 

Face to face would have been better, but I don't see anything really wrong with the email.

[LauraGB]

Did this come with a big stick with which to beat the recipient?

 

I think its highly excessive, contains enough depth to have been addressed with the parents first, and I'm quite certain I would feel the need to address this mis-step with the leader (or whoever wrote it).

 

I also don't see any serious offense by the student in there - sounds like the student is a) a person who may or may not have had reasons for being rude, and b) is all of 14 years old.

 

But, without knowing the background, its hard to really say for sure.

[MeaganS]

I really don't see the problem. This kid is pretty old, like 14, right? It sounds to me like this adult was giving him/her constructive criticism and was being respectful. I don't know what you're looking for...

[melissel]

It seems to me, and I could be misinterpreting, that the adult and the child are working together on something, and that the adult is the child's advisor/mentor. If that's the case, I wouldn't expect to be CCed on an email between them or notified about the content, even for a negative message. That said, though, I think the tone is a little strong. I would imagine a 14-year-old is new to any sort of leadership position, so I'd have a hard time with someone reading so much rudeness and disrespect into their words and actions rather than simple inexperience (and maybe a little teenaged cockiness). Yes, I'd see it as the advisor's job to correct such words and actions, but maybe a bit more gently, and yes, ideally, face to face.

 

Just my .02!

[SilverMoon]

I totally agree. If the Advisor is a teacher by trade, she should have thicker skin and more appropriate ways to deal with teenagers learning to take on leadership roles. A teenager messes up and shouldn't be called to task like this after an early, well-intentioned attempt.

 

I agree with this. Using her own advice, "Thank them for the given effort and offer suggestions for next time," would have been a more appropriate response IMO.

[coralloyd]

If I had a problem with a 14 yr. old speaking disrespectfully to me I would speak to them face to face. I actually would have said at the time something like, " Please be be more respectful in the way you speak to me." If I had to say more than that it would be to their parent.

[DarlaS]

It sounds like an adult trying to positively encourage leadership skills.

 

She was suggesting more effective ways to communicate, and gave examples of things the student did/said that were potentially offensive (there's a better word, but it's not coming to me now...). To tell someone, especially an adult leader, the way they did something was "Loosey Goosey" IS disrespectful (even if it's true).

 

She probably should have CC the parent, but maybe didn't want to embarrass the child so kept it between them. In her own words, it was "not a big deal". I think it rather polite to send an e-mail rather than calling him/her on it right then and there. That would be potentially humiliating (possibly even if done semi-privately).

[Mom2GirlsTX]

It sounds like an adult trying to positively encourage leadership skills.

 

She was suggesting more effective ways to communicate, and gave examples of things the student did/said that were potentially offensive (there's a better word, but it's not coming to me now...). To tell someone, especially an adult leader, the way they did something was "Loosey Goosey" IS disrespectful (even if it's true).

 

She probably should have CC the parent, but maybe didn't want to embarrass the child so kept it between them. In her own words, it was "not a big deal". I think it rather polite to send an e-mail rather than calling him/her on it right then and there. That would be potentially humiliating (possibly even if done semi-privately).

 

I tend to agree with the above. If the adult is in a mentor position, then she would want to mentor the child. I do think face to face would have been much better.

 

If this is strictly a teacher teaching a class, then I think this is over the top.

[Janet in WA]

My thoughts:

 

The 14yo young lady sounds self-confident and perceptive. But it also sounds as if she might need to develop some tact to go along with that, and she'd be a great leader.

 

The adult is probably right that 14yo could make some adjustments in the way she addresses issues with others. But this adult also appears a tad insecure. E-mail is overused in these situations when one party doesn't have the fortitude to say what should be said in person, and what ends up being written is often unfortunate. If this adult doesn't have the guts to speak directly to a 14yo, she should take her own advice and work on her leadership skills.

[LauraGB]

My thoughts:

 

The 14yo young lady sounds self-confident and perceptive. But it also sounds as if she might need to develop some tact to go along with that, and she'd be a great leader.

 

The adult is probably right that 14yo could make some adjustments in the way she addresses issues with others. But this adult also appears a tad insecure. E-mail is overused in these situations when one party doesn't have the fortitude to say what should be said in person, and what ends up being written is often unfortunate. If this adult doesn't have the guts to speak directly to a 14yo, she should take her own advice and work on her leadership skills.

:iagree: "Loosy Goosy" is a youthful term, to be sure. And considering the instructor is dealing with a youth, a better approach if she took offense would perhaps have been to raise her eyebrows and say something to the effect of "Loosy Goosy? Could you please clarify?" and go from there instead of writing a short novel about how this child needs to grow up and be a leader. Perhaps the instructor could choose to be a better leader by example.

[hornblower]

Did this come with a big stick with which to beat the recipient?

 

 

:iagree:

 

If I was sent this as an adult, I'd be livid. If this is a teen entering aleadership role, they should be treated more like an adult. Plus I'm not entirely sure that the adult is in the wrong - it's quite possible that the teen is simply perceptive and an organized and efficient person who found flaws in how things were done. While the style of delivery may need tweaking, the adult leader in this case is hardly setting a good example. Sounds like a whiny 'you hurt my feelings' blah blah blah.

 

Even without the redacted Mrs. signature, you can tell it's written by a woman. It's got a nice passive aggressive tone. Even if there is a problem, she could have found a way to say:

 

'you know, when you said ....., I think that was a bit abrupt and might be misconstrued by people & they might miss your message because they get upset by the delivery. We all struggle with this issue of communicating effectively - maybe we can look at some constructive communication books together this year as part of your leadership training.' It should have been done in person. And it should have included some constructive communication, like establishing rapport at the beginning, finding things that went well & mentioning those, and giving concrete examples of how some things may have been handled better.

 

This just makes me want to say 'grow up' to the adult.

[Erica in PA]

This is correspondence from an unrelated adult to a 14 year old student (exclusively, no other adults or students copied on this message). I realize you probably need background to fully judge this message, but for the moment I ask you to just share your honest, first-impression reaction to the tone and content. Thanks.

(receipient's name),

 

I want to touch base with you about what happened after the Stuco meeting when you were talking to Mrs. (head of the co-op) and me. You may not have meant for this to be seen this way, but I want you to know that I was very disppointed by the way you treated me. I felt that you were very disrespectful of me as an adult and as your advisor when you were addressing the way that the meeting transpired and the apparent "lack" of an agenda. You also said that the way I had the last item on the agenda the time for "other ideas," was, "Loosy goosy." I was totally surprised at the rudeness at which you treated me. I am a teacher by trade and am still tutoring a number of students and I do not recall ever having been treated by a student this way - let alone a Christian homeschooler.

 

As a leader you are to guide people by motivation and encouragement. I felt neither of these things from you when you left. I am always open to feedback when it is given in a postive light.

 

As our Stuco President it is your duty to, "motivate the others and keep the group in a positive mood." I hope and expect that you will be able to do this for our group. The way that you shared with [another student council member's name, the sponsor/writer's daughter] today about her not writing the email properly because it did not say the word "suggestions" vs. "polls" was rudely stated as well. This was not a big deal! Next time try to thank people for their work and suggest an idea that they might think about for the next time. That way the person feels good about their work and will consider your thoughts for the future.

 

I have great expectations for you [recipient's name], and I know that you are capable of doing a great job and of being a good leader. In order to do so though, you need to be able to encourage people to see your side of the issue and to bring them along. This takes the ability of being a good listener as well.

 

The group today was talking over each other, and this is something that can be easily fixed on your and my part (if needed). I knew that everyone was excited to discuss the dance and different topics, so I did not stop it today. If I was leading the group again, this would be the first thing that I would address. Please allow them to have fun, too, [recipient's name]. They can do this and still get things accomplished as well.

 

As your Christian advisor I felt that this was my responsibility to share this with you, so that you can grow in your Christian walk and as a future leader in our society. I look forward to working with you, [receipient's name], and by being able to see the growth that you make this year.

 

Blessings,

Mrs. [new student council sponsor]

 

 

ETA: Because I am looking for initial impressions, it may be helpful to post your initial response prior to reading the other replies. Then you can post again, if you like. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

My initial response is "Yuck." It's inappropriate and childish to communicate this kind of negative feedback *via email* to anyone, let alone a young person. It gives the impression of an individual who is only concerned with getting *her* point across, without concern for the feelings of the recipient. I would probably talk to this adult myself (in person! :tongue_smilie:), and tell her that while you welcome constructive criticism for your child, you feel that it would be best coming from her directly, rather than via email.

[EKS]

My initial response is that the adult sending the email was feeling upset because the 14yo criticized her in front of her superior. However, I think that this sort of communication is best done in person. Even though she was upset, or maybe *especially* because she was upset, the adult should have spoken with the 14yo directly as the tone of emails can be difficult to determine.

[MariannNOVA]

I agree with this for the most part but it sounds like the 14 yo is a president (leader?) of some kind of group and as such I agree with the following:

 

Yes, it does appear as if the 14 year old is leader/President of some kind of group. I agree. However, that does not, in my opinion (and I am saying this with all due respect, kindness, graciousness) give the Leader of this group license to broach a subject ('group' related or not) that can be sensitive to a 14 year old ('I would prefer you do things this way, b/c I didn't care for the way you did it') without another adult there - and an adult in some position of authority - the parent(s) of the 14 year old there to represent their child and be certain their child does ot feel threatened, and perhaps the Principal of the school in question.

 

As a former classroom teacher, I would NEVER speak to any student without at the very least the Principal there to be another set of ears. Typically, I would bring the Principal up to speed on the situation, and ask if she thought the parent should be present when the student was appropached. We would go from there. This whole area, as a parent and as a teacher, can be a slippery slope.

[Erica in PA]

Did this come with a big stick with which to beat the recipient?

 

I think its highly excessive, contains enough depth to have been addressed with the parents first, and I'm quite certain I would feel the need to address this mis-step with the leader (or whoever wrote it).

 

I also don't see any serious offense by the student in there - sounds like the student is a) a person who may or may not have had reasons for being rude, and b) is all of 14 years old.

 

 

:iagree: It's way over the top, and I would talk to this person about both the method of communication (as I noted in my post below), and also its content-- saying she can never recall being treated so rudely ever before?! If it was that egregious, it should have been brought to you, her parent. But from the things she noted, "loosey goosey", etc, I really doubt that it was really all that terrible. I would be really upset if my child got a letter like this.

[Erica in PA]

I tend to agree with the above. If the adult is in a mentor position, then she would want to mentor the child. I do think face to face would have been much better.

 

If this is strictly a teacher teaching a class, then I think this is over the top.

 

Really? It didn't come across like mentoring to me. Much of the letter seemed more like an emotional vent than anything else.

[gingersmom]

I would be beyond upset if an adult sent this to my 14 year old.

 

It sounds like one adult talking to another.

 

It also sounds like the adult in question writes as though he has all the answers, its his way or its wrong and then throws in religion to back up his claim.

[Tap]

With the letters tone, I am expecting that the student was very abrupt and with her tone and out of place, in regard to these offences. If she was asked her opinion and was simply giving it in a polite way, then I may feel differently.

 

I don't have a problem with it for a few reasons.

 

It appears to be an outside Voluntary, Leadership class/opportunity (Christian school maybe?) and thus the parent doesn't need to be cc'd. Part of the education process outside of homeschool relies on children becoming independent of the parent, and at 14, (8th/9th grade) I wouldn't expect to be privy to every conversation positive or negative with my child. The child appears to have a student leadership role, and thus would be expected to have the desire to learn to be an effective leader. There were specific examples given, and more appropriate solutions offered. The person writing the letter is the mentor, so it is up to them to correct this behavior. The mentor did Exactly what they are expected to do.

 

I don't have a problem with the letter being written instead of in person, because it will give the recipient a chance to think about her actions without interruption, and then she can go back to the mentor for a discussion. Face to face would have been nice, but not necessary. As a parent, I love that it is in print form so I know exactly what was said to my child.

[sassenach]

I see nothing wrong with this email. It is doing both the job of pointing out a character flaw, and encouraging/complimenting this kid. I can almost picture the way he must have spoken to her. One of the complaints I have heard most often about teen homeschoolers is a lack of humility (know it all) and that they treat adults with a lack of respect. I have found this to be especially true with the boys. It sounds like this kid is having that problem. The adult is lovingly trying to coach him through it, which since she is leading this group that IS part of her role. If she did not address this character flaw, she would be failing in her role.

 

This conversation could happen in person, but depending on this kid's personality, email with a follow up conversation is also appropriate. At this age and in this setting (an outside class which the parent has agreed to have the kid participate in), it is entirely appropriate for the adult to go straight to the kid and address these issues.

 

JMHO,

[MariannNOVA]

She probably should have CC the parent, but maybe didn't want to embarrass the child so kept it between them. In her own words, it was "not a big deal". I think it rather polite to send an e-mail rather than calling him/her on it right then and there. That would be potentially humiliating (possibly even if done semi-privately).

 

If an individual is concerned about 'embarassing' my child, that should send off bells and whistles that my husband and I should be involved.

 

'Not a big deal' -- that was a rather long email for 'not a big deal.'

 

As a parent, and as a former teacher (I'm tired of writing that - I'll have that be the final time), things like this send shock-waves through a family.

 

'Mentoring, respect, good judgement' -- absolutely, but this is still a 14 year old, and I think the individual who wrote the email was inappropriate and overstepping.

 

As I said to someone else, Heather is in Malaysia, I am not (and I thought her story was lovely, BTW.) My husband and I will decide which people in the village have any input as to how our children are raised.

 

Others may feel differently -- that's fine with me, I truly do not have an issue with it. However, any individual leading a group, teaching a class, etc., must be aware that parents have a wide range of opinion, protocol, chain of command, etc when it comes to their precious children (I am being totally sincere). I am a firm believer that those things must be respected....at the very least recognized.

Edited October 4, 2009 by MariannNOVA

[Pongo]

Okay, my initial response is:

 

I get the feeling the 14 year old is the leader of this group that is being mentored by this adult, who wrote the letter.

 

Without knowing how long they have known each other, I have to say it sounded very respectful on the part of the adult to respond and correct the actions of a 14 year old. I think it is important to point out, that because this child is a leader, she is being spoken to as a leader. I did think the blow was softened with the ending of encouragement and compliments. In real life that would not be there:).

 

If it were me, I would have done it in a face to face meeting style, only because I would not want the tone to be misinterpreted. But, if there was no possible way for this to happen, then I think the adult was within her limits with her response.

 

The only item I have a problem with it the comment about, not expecting this from a Christian. We ALL fall short, a 14 year old is no different. Trying to hand down religious conviction within the confines of an academic venue is inappropriate. She may have been hurt and the 14 year old may have been disrespectful but, it may be a matter of the 14 year old being taught how to deliver criticism and that IMHO has zero to do with Christianity.

[patchfire]

My first impression is that the adult writing the email was offended by the criticism of her daughter, and while it wasn't the first point mentioned, I suspect it was the impetus for the email. I also wonder if the writer thought someone else (her daughter, or someone else) would have been a "better" leader of the student council, and/or has different expectations for student council (as a new sponsor) than have been in place in the past. Gut reaction is that it's not about the recipient as much as it is about the writer's daughter and the writer's own "vision" for how she's going to make the student council "better" with her as the new sponsor.

 

If I were to get an email like that, I would be extremely upset, no matter the age. IF all the concerns are legitimate, they could be addressed in person and in a more gentle way. Ideally, they'd be addressed one at a time - the most pressing after the first meeting, along with what went well, and go from there. I'd be surprised if the 14 yo didn't want to quit, remembering my own feelings at that age.

[ConnieB]

This is correspondence from an unrelated adult to a 14 year old student (exclusively, no other adults or students copied on this message). I realize you probably need background to fully judge this message, but for the moment I ask you to just share your honest, first-impression reaction to the tone and content. Thanks.

 

(receipient's name),

 

 

 

I want to touch base with you about what happened after the Stuco meeting when you were talking to Mrs. (head of the co-op) and me. You may not have meant for this to be seen this way, but I want you to know that I was very disppointed by the way you treated me. I felt that you were very disrespectful of me as an adult and as your advisor when you were addressing the way that the meeting transpired and the apparent "lack" of an agenda. You also said that the way I had the last item on the agenda the time for "other ideas," was, "Loosy goosy." I was totally surprised at the rudeness at which you treated me. I am a teacher by trade and am still tutoring a number of students and I do not recall ever having been treated by a student this way - let alone a Christian homeschooler.

 

 

 

As a leader you are to guide people by motivation and encouragement. I felt neither of these things from you when you left. I am always open to feedback when it is given in a postive light.

 

 

 

As our Stuco President it is your duty to, "motivate the others and keep the group in a positive mood." I hope and expect that you will be able to do this for our group. The way that you shared with [another student council member's name, the sponsor/writer's daughter] today about her not writing the email properly because it did not say the word "suggestions" vs. "polls" was rudely stated as well. This was not a big deal! Next time try to thank people for their work and suggest an idea that they might think about for the next time. That way the person feels good about their work and will consider your thoughts for the future.

 

 

 

I have great expectations for you [recipient's name], and I know that you are capable of doing a great job and of being a good leader. In order to do so though, you need to be able to encourage people to see your side of the issue and to bring them along. This takes the ability of being a good listener as well.

 

 

 

The group today was talking over each other, and this is something that can be easily fixed on your and my part (if needed). I knew that everyone was excited to discuss the dance and different topics, so I did not stop it today. If I was leading the group again, this would be the first thing that I would address. Please allow them to have fun, too, [recipient's name]. They can do this and still get things accomplished as well.

 

 

 

As your Christian advisor I felt that this was my responsibility to share this with you, so that you can grow in your Christian walk and as a future leader in our society. I look forward to working with you, [receipient's name], and by being able to see the growth that you make this year.

 

 

 

Blessings,

 

Mrs. [new student council sponsor]

 

 

 

 

 

ETA: Because I am looking for initial impressions, it may be helpful to post your initial response prior to reading the other replies. Then you can post again, if you like. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that if this person is in fact the teenager's advisor than it was well worded, respective to the teen, but pointed out the actions that the advisor felt were off-base. The advisor even pointed out that you should thank people for their work and THEN make suggestions on how to improve it (with the paragraph about the email of suggestion v polls). And then the advisor pretty much did so herself. There is probably more suggestions on improving then encouragements if you do a point by point count, but I think even when she was chastising the teen she came across as respectful.

 

Now, a few of the first impressions that I had but where I need much more information to know whether to be concerned or not were if these two individuals regularly correspond by email? If this was the first email between them, I think the adult should have instead arranged to discuss this privately with the teen, and/or with the teens parents (again, not enough information to know if the teen and advisor work together a lot then maybe the parents don't need to be there). I don't think it's appropriate for an adult to chastise a minor unless directly if there is not a previous relationship (in other words, if this was the first exchange between these two, the advisor should have brought the parents into the mix). However, if it is truly an advisory position that she has, then I believe that is likely part of her job to help this teen in their apparent leadership role, and I think she did so with respect but firmness.

 

Now...the other big question of course is whether the chastise is warranted....was the teen rude and disrespectful when speaking with Mrs HeadofCoOp? Something that jumped out at me was that this advisor spoke of her years as a teacher, and then singled out that the teen was a "Christian homeschooler". In light of how some teachers feel about homeschoolers, if this advisor feels that way also, then I'd deem the "homeschooler" part to be derogatory. However, if perhaps she feels that because the teen is a homeschooler, and she herself sees that homeschoolers might be more respectful than an average public school teen, then it's fine. If this advisor however feels negatively against homeschoolers, could her reaction to the "disrespect" be influenced by that prejudice? Her comment that she's never in all her years....blah blah, makes it sound like it was horrific and over the top rude, yet her description of it wasn't very horrific from the reading (of course there would be no need to go into horrific details since they were both there).

 

I think before I spoke with the advisor about it, I'd want to talk to Mrs HeadofCoOp to see what her take on the exchange was....did she feel that the teen was rude/disrespectful....a lot, a little, not at all? Obviously the teen is likely to feel they weren't rude, so having a third party witness would be the most objective I believe. And a part of me is wondering if it was truly that rude and disrespectful, why didn't Mrs HeadofCoOp say something either at the time, or privately with the teen (and/or the parents)? I would hope that as Head she would not allow any teen to speak that way to another person in her presence. My first reaction with that in mind is that it wasn't nearly as horrific to Head as it was to Advisor....in other words, Advisor took it wrong or blew it out of proportion.

 

If however, teen was rude...then that is the issue to be addressed and not the appropriateness of the email.

 

Ok....now looking forward to reading others responses and see if I am missing something, lol.

[lgm]

My initial impression is that the letter is too much. It has faults, but the real problem is that the line of communication is not open between the writer and the student. The response should have happened right there, as discussion with all parties...and with no outrage at rudeness, just instruction to the newbie.

 

Is there an executive session where the officers and the advisors will address these issues before the next general meeting and provide education/guidance so the next meeting goes better? At the minimum, the child sounds like she needs a quick look at Robert's Rules of Order and some acquaintance with Emily Post...

Edited October 4, 2009 by lgm

[Erica in PA]

 

'Not a big deal' -- that was a rather long email for 'not a big deal.'

 

 

 

I agreed with your post, but I just wanted to point out that when she said it was "Not a big deal," the writer was *not* referring to the actions of the teen she was addressing. She obviously thought that was a very big deal. She was actually addressing what her own daughter had done, that this teen had corrected during the meeting, which miffed this woman and probably her daughter (which may have a lot to do with the writing of this email.) This is what she was saying was not a big deal (i.e. you didn't need to correct her on that. It wasn't a big deal). It wasn't an assurance to the teen, but actually a further criticism.

[In The Great White North]

I'm not sure the adult's leadership skills are all that much better than the 14 year old's. Bringing up one issue at a time (in person) is much more effective. ("How about trying 'this' next time? It works really well.")

 

The whole thing sounds negative, not encouraging or loving at all. If I were the 14 year old and had to work with this adult the rest of the year (and get these rants about things that were "not a big deal"), I'd quit and find something else to do. It's not worth the stress.

 

The teacher has never heard anything ruder than "loosey goosey" from a student??? Apparently, she never attended any of my schools.

 

What's Stuco?

[Heather in WI]

I see nothing wrong with this email. It is doing both the job of pointing out a character flaw, and encouraging/complimenting this kid. I can almost picture the way he must have spoken to her. One of the complaints I have heard most often about teen homeschoolers is a lack of humility (know it all) and that they treat adults with a lack of respect. I have found this to be especially true with the boys. It sounds like this kid is having that problem. The adult is lovingly trying to coach him through it, which since she is leading this group that IS part of her role. If she did not address this character flaw, she would be failing in her role.

 

JMHO,

 

:iagree:

 

I thought it was a tad bit much, but not so much that I'd attack the sender for it.

 

If this was my child, I'd try to help her evaluate her own behavior in light of this e-mail and encourage her to graciously apologize if in fact her behavior was inappropriate. I'd brainstorm & role-play how she could have handled it differently and how to respond to this woman. I would not get involved in the middle between my daughter and this women. If my daughter had taken on this role of leadership, these are exactly the type of lessons & situations that leaders need to learn to deal with!

[Pretty in Pink]

I think that the issue may have been best discussed in person, possibly in the presence of the child's parent. I think if the student council sponsor were going to email the student then the message may be best CCed to the child's parent.

 

However, I think the email is okay as worded. IMO the teen is in a position to receive constructive criticism from his/her sponsor.

[Murphy101]

well as requested I'm not reading any responses first...

 

my initial reaction ...

 

first: she is a school teacher... they tend to not be aware of the somewhat unwritten homeschool parent rule "Thou shalt not mess with another parent's kid without going thru their parent first," IOW, she didn't seem to understand that if she had a problem with your kid, she shoudl have spoken to you about it.

 

second: I'm slightly confused about the context of this. It appears your kid told her kid an opinion of the lack of agenda and organization of the meeting in private. Then her kid told her what your kid said later.

 

if that is the case and it was nothing more than a shared private opinion given between the two girls (as we all know is natural) - then she needs to get over herself.

 

now if it was a mean girl bashing another girls mom type thing, then she shoudl have spoken to you about it. And then got over herself. (I really don't get the impression that this is the case tho.)

 

Third: if the meeting was in fact "loosy goosy" (which sure doesn't sound like harsh critique IMHO), then the president of the group has a valid point for consideration and this mom needs to consider it respectfully. Your dd might have been better off using a more.. respecting/deferring.. phrase, but the point still needs to be addressed and the president is the one to do so.

 

Fourth: I find it interesting that she's slamming your dd for her chooice of words, yet she also slams your dd for telling her daughter that the use of the word "suggestion" instead of "poll" is petty. (which *I* don't think is petty b/c there's a big difference between what those words mean! This is a case of Mrs. Kttle calling Miss Pot black.

 

Fifth: I do not like that she calls herself your dd christian advisor. If she is, then I suppose that is fine. But unless you or your pastor have set this woman up to specificly be that role in your dd life, then I'd be royal ticked over that being assumed by her over my child.

 

It doesn't sound like this happened at the event, or in front of the group.

 

The majority of it sounds like this lady is ticked because your dd dared be less than glowing about something she or her dd did. It sounds petty.

 

And the role of a leader is not to just motivate and encourage with positive phrases and nice words. It's also to critque for improvement and to keep on task to meet goals. It can be great fun, but it's also meant to be hard work.

 

Now, I've got to go read all the other stuff to see if I'm totally off base!:D

[LaxMom]

Ok, I have not seen any of the replies.

 

My first impression is that it is condescending. If the author wishes to be respected as an "equal" or a professional, perhaps she should refrain from using the recipient's name repeatedly in the correspondence, and belaboring the points.

 

If she is coming from a place of authority, then a simple "Your tone was out of line and I expect you to speak to me with the appropriate respect" would cover it. The rest - e.g. the running of general meetings, agenda, etc - should be saved for a coordination meeting between leaders (who I assume to be the author and the recipient).

 

Really, the tone of the email is suggestive (to me) of poor managers who should not have been put in the position of managing a team.

 

Just my 2 cents. Now, I'll go read the rest of the responses.

[MariannNOVA]

I agreed with your post, but I just wanted to point out that when she said it was "Not a big deal," the writer was *not* referring to the actions of the teen she was addressing. She obviously thought that was a very big deal. She was actually addressing what her own daughter had done, that this teen had corrected during the meeting, which miffed this woman and probably her daughter (which may have a lot to do with the writing of this email.) This is what she was saying was not a big deal (i.e. you didn't need to correct her on that. It wasn't a big deal). It wasn't an assurance to the teen, but actually a further criticism.

 

 

and that is what ran through my mind as I typed that line about not a big deal. Thanks again! :001_smile: really! :001_smile:

[Beth in OH]

It sounds as though this person has some supervisory capacity over your dd. In general, I think it's OK for a supervisor (whether work, teacher, etc.) to discuss things directly with a 14 yo (high school freshman) without involving parents. I consider direct guidance appropriate for a child that age--gaining independence and handling certain things on her own, and all that.

 

Now--I think email is a poor was to communicate constructive criticism to anyone. Criticism in writing almost never comes across well. It is formal and strong, and it doesn't give the student a chance to respond immediately. I think the method of delivery was the first problem with this communication. Employers do performance reviews in person for a reason.

 

Beyond that, the specifics of this email make me question the emotional maturity of the supervisor. Demanding respect and politeness, and pulling the "Christian homeschooler" card, seems manipulative and concerned with soothing her own hurt feelings rather than guiding your 14 yo. Bottom line, she laid a guilt trip on your dd. I am a very intentional Christian, and I really dislike it when people use "religion" as a means to elicit a certain response from someone.

 

The supervisor seems to be of the view that Christians have an active obligation to point out others' less than Christian behavior. I don't share that view, and in fact that's the part of this email that would bother me the most.

 

Now, on to read the other responses.

 

Beth

[ConnieB]

 

If this was my child, I'd try to help her evaluate her own behavior in light of this e-mail and encourage her to graciously apologize if in fact her behavior was inappropriate. I'd brainstorm & role-play how she could have handled it differently and how to respond to this woman. I would not get involved in the middle between my daughter and this women. If my daughter had taken on this role of leadership, these are exactly the type of lessons & situations that leaders need to learn to deal with!

:iagree:

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

My first impression without reading anymore is that email is not a good communication tool for any sort of criticism or advisement. Person to person is best so that the issues can be discussed (instead of reading a monologue) and issues can be clarified and resolved. It is unfortunate that this adult advisor chose electronic communication as a tool to express herself. She should have known better.

[myfunnybunch]

My initial impression is that the email is neither motivating or encouraging. It is clear that the sender has a desire to be kind and tactful, but she missed the boat, as overall the message focused on mistakes and flaws.

 

Cat

[dirty ethel rackham]

Really? It didn't come across like mentoring to me. Much of the letter seemed more like an emotional vent than anything else.

 

I agree. I pictured a huge "Well I NEVER" and a "You young whipper snapper!" coming out of this. This came across as a very juvenile dressing down rather than constructive criticism from a mentor. Also, the fact that the parents weren't cc'd on this is concerning as well.

[OhM]

I'm answering before reading other responses.

 

I can imagine two scenarios for this letter - it could be a letter that one of my dd's had received (I can even picture the particular advisor who would write such a letter;)), or I can imagine, as a scout leader and someone who works with youth at church, writing this letter.

 

And theoretically, either scenario should lead me to the same comments, should they not? So thinking of it both ways should allow me to filter out both snark and defensiveness for the situation.:D

 

OK -

In general, the writer has pretty straightforwardly addressed some issues he/she sees in the recipient's leadership. But when I consider that this is an adult writing to a 14yo, it seems much too harsh and unforgiving. I'm not sure a 14yo could properly learn from criticism given in this fashion. An older student (18, 19 maybe), possibly. Gentler criticism, less personalized would still be preferable, even for an older student. Even a very mature 14yo still is very immature in many ways - I imagine the episodes listed are manifestations of that immaturity. The adult needs to take some of that into account and show some grace, while gently guiding the student toward more acceptable behavior.

 

It seems that the issues would be better addressed in person, maybe with the adult prepared to offer assistance in specific ways? But honestly, this adult seems too hurt by this student to be able to do it in a loving fashion.

 

A couple things were wince-inducing:

The last sentence of the first paragraph - ouch. Telling a 14yo they have insulted me like no other student in my extensive experience as an educator and have completely forsaken their responsibility as a Christian? Ouch. I think this did not need to be said. And I'm not sure the second paragraph is helpful beyond allowing the adult to air his/her hurt feelings.

 

Having said all that - I've wanted to say similar things to a particular 14yo at one time.:D She "fired" me as her accompanist when our first attempt with a piece of music didn't go well. She hadn't learned her part adequately, and blamed me for the poor performance. It took all of my effort and really more grace than I actually possess to suggest that she spend more time with the music and we try again in a week. It went much better the second time. 14yo's are still in the thrall of physical changes - they don't need to have bad behavior excused, or ignored, but much patience and grace is required.

Edited October 4, 2009 by OhM

[Paz]

My initial not thought out response is that the adult is way too serious and easily offended. Fourteen year olds are not usually known for their tactfulness. If she did have a problem with the student that a face to face discussion would have been better.

[WagsWife]

I think children need to be more respectful of adults, period. The child is a leader of a group, so her mentor has a right to say something. It might have been better in person, but the message wasn't mean. If my child was disrespectful to an adult, I would want my child called out on it. I think parents today do a huge diservice to their children (from a biblical standpoint) when they defend their children instead of disciplining their children for disrespectful behavior. Sounds like the mentor is doing her job by mentoring the child!

 

ITA! I am a HUGE stickler when it comes to talking/treating an adult with respect.

 

ETA: I also have no problem with it being taken care of via email...when dealing with a minor, I would want to make sure that my words were not twisted or mis-heard.

Edited October 4, 2009 by WagsWife

[AuntieM]

I want to aplogize for being vague at first, I truly wanted to present this as neutrally as possible at the beginning, to get your unbiased feedback, because it is very difficult for *me* to consider it 100% objectively.

 

Time for some back story:

 

The setting is our 200+ student co-op school, with the student population about equally divided between primary (K-6) and secondary (7-12) grades.

 

The teen is my son, who is the only member of the 5-student STUCO (student council/student government) to have been involved with student council in the past, serving as an intern last year. The other 4 members are not new to the school, but new to the council this year. The council selection process was fair and brooked no controversy.

 

Sponsor is new, as of the meeting in question. She is also the mother of one of the new members of the council, a daughter who is a grade younger than my son, who is of the highest grade level represented on the council (it's a fairly young council, 4 sophomores and 1 freshman, the sponsor's daughter).

 

The council sponsor from last year is returning to work and must relinquish her involvement, but, to get the year off to its proper start, she oversaw the application and selection process. She also moderated the first gathering of the new council, and as part of that did two things. First, she announced that the "adult council" had decided to appoint my son as president of the council, since he was the only student with prior experience. I cannot tell you who comprises the adult council, I assumed it was this sponsor and the co-op head. Secondly, the council discussed what other positions were necessary and the members collectively decided who would serve in each capacity. It appeared that every council member was quite content with the agreed upon assignments. So far, so good, so everyone thought.

 

Next meeting. New sponsor in place. My son was prepared to lead the meeting according to Robert's Rules of Order, as he is accustomed to this from other student-led organizations. The only irregularity was that he had not asked anyone for agenda items, this being the first meeting, he assumed most would fall into the new business category.

 

New sponsor commences leading the meeting. Son asks her if she has an agenda to share with the members. No, she will not share her agenda. First item on her agenda: revote on all the council positions, since it was not fair that someone was appointed president and the council members did not get to vote on that. Makes big deal of tallying secret ballots, saying, "Ooooo, what a close race..." My son remains president (and is later told by 3 other members that they voted for him to remain as president). So, ds begins to realize he is not in "safe" territory with this woman.

 

Next item: the prom. Several female students have expressed that they would like to have a prom. Co-op head had, two days prior, told my son that she was sorry, the school could not be affiliated with a prom, the kids and parents could do something on their own and share the news word of mouth, but there was too much potential for division for the school to be associated, end of story. The new sponsor proceeds to lead the 3 girls of the council in a 40-minute discussion of prom details, right down to how many inches below the clavical would the girls be allowed to wear their dresses on that occasion.

 

With 10 minutes remaining, my son expresses the need to discuss the other business intended for that meeting, including the other boy student's organization of a group to attend the state TeenPact conference in March, and the scheduling of a student service project at the local food bank. These items are each receive a few minutes mention, then the topic of polling students for what clubs they want is addressed. Sponsor's daughter is in charge of that. I assume this is where the mentioned rudeness occurred. I have no doubt that by this time my son was pretty perturbed.

 

Following the meeting, my son went to the head of the co-op to express his distress, and to clarify his own role in future meetings. New sponsor came over and inserted herself into the conversation. I think this is actually the crux of why she thought he was being rude and disrespectful.

 

Disclaimer: I was not there. I have, however, carefully questioned my son and the co-op head about the situation, trying to accurately envision the situation. The minutes of the meeting, sent out the next day by the STUCO secretary with zero input from anyone else, fully represent the course of the meeting as described by my son.

 

On the drive home, ds expressed his frustration, then went on to say that he felt like a failure at his attempts to be humble before others (a spiritual issue which he has, individually and apart fom his parents, been convicted of by the LORD). He was really struggling with emotions, whether his feelings were righteous, etc, and I could tell he felt very betrayed by this sponsor who - as it appeared to my son and others who shared with him afterwards - had designs of elevating her own daughter to the position of council president (as my son said, "Watch it, Mom, that's an easy accusation to make." He was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on that one, I am not so sure I could...). Anyway, we decided that I would call the co-op sponsor the next day to see if he should plan to run the next meeting by Robert's or whether the new sponsor was going to be running the meetings this year. But the next day, before I had a chance to call...

 

Enter the big stick. He got this email. He wasn't going to tell me about it, and immediately sent her the most humble, contrite and totally respectful email that a person could muster up, let alone a 14 year old boy. I read it after the fact, and was astounded that he could be so generous of spirit. In many ways, he is a much bigger person than is his mother.

 

I forwarded both emails to the co-op head, then followed up with a phone call. She was speechless about the email, and could only say, "Ew. What are you thinking?"

 

I said I was thinking that this person was never again permitted to send emails to my child without copying me on it. My reasons: #1, If my kids are disrespectful, I want to know about it, and #2, if my child is rendered unable to do his schoolwork because he has received a techno-verbal spanking from someone professing to be his Christian mentor, I need to know about it.

 

Co-op head agreed and said son would be leading the meetings from now on, she would make sure sponsor knew the "prom" was a no-discuss-needed issue, and that all future correspondences would be copied to me.

 

DS and I had a long talk about this subject, and every possible extension of life lesson that could be learned from it. Sigh. One of parenting's very un-fun lessons. Be assured that our discussions focused on his need for right words, actions and attitudes just as much as it did on his righteous indignation and the sponsor's inappropriate words and actions.

 

Yesterday, dh has the opportunity to read the email. His words, "In my 20+ years in corporate American, I have never seen such a nasty email. They probably exist, but not in my experience. I cannot believe this was sent from an adult to a 14 year old student. It's enough to make most kids his age just want to quit."

 

Worst part, this "big stick" came all wrapped up in Christian terms.

 

Saw sponsor last night at the co-op fall bonfire. She brought up the subject, commended my son for handling himself "very professionally" yet she expressed no regret for sending the email in the first place. I was totally incapable of dicussing the subject with her and proceeded to ask her if she had eve seen a recipe for homemade marshmallows. :confused:

 

I am deeply saddened to realize that someone I once considered a friend is now someone I must consider detrimental to the emotional well being of my children.

 

Wow, that's enough. Thanks for your replies, thanks for letting me get it off my chest, it's comforting to have people to "talk" to outside the IRL circle that includes this woman.

[melissel]

I am so, so sorry. I was one who thought the email wasn't so bad, but given the backstory, this now seems to be someone you will all need to watch out for. How totally devastating. You should be so proud of your son for how he handled himself through all of this!