s/0 Figuring things out

[TexasProud]

I wanted to just take this off in a tangent.  @Murphy101 said, "I personally dislike the phrase “let them figure it out” bc frankly I see a world more full of people struggling than actually figuring anything out. Myself included. People do not just miraculously know about things and how things work. And, again, communication is hard, and no one likes to feel stupid so they don’t ask the questions needed to “figure it out.”"

 

It just made me think, good grief, I figure pretty much everything out ALL THE TIME.  I research and figure it out.  Didn't know how to do laundry or cook when I went to college.  I figured it out, though some of my meals tasted terrible and I did turn my underwear pink once. But I figured it out.

Computers didn't exist in high school.   The college built their first computer lab students could use and I took my first class about how to type on a computer. (The idea that you could cut and paste and correct errors and not have to type the whole 8 page paper all over from scratch was absolutely revolutionary.)

Actually, I didn't learn to type until after I graduated.  I checked out some books on typing from the library and spent one summer in between teaching semesters to learn.

I taught myself how to build a website, produce a podcast, and sell a devotional online. 

I've taught myself how to be a better parent. 

If you don't know how to do something, you google. You watch Youtube. You ask someone to show you. Maybe I didn't care about looking stupid.  I don't know.  But especially the way technology keeps changing at such a fast rate, you learn something new just about every single day.  It does get tiring. 

Oh, about looking stupid.  I guess it was 2006 and my dad fell and was in the hospital and my cousins told me to text them about how he was doing.  I had never received a text on my phone.  Yeah.. They laughed at me and I looked stupid.  But oh well.  A couple of years later I started texting and now I cannot imagine life without it. 

But yeah... I figure it out. My parents expected me to.  I did teach my children to do laundry and cook.  Though the cooking consisted of me sitting and doing something at the breakfast room table while they read a recipe and "figured it out" or asked me if they didn't get something.  I never did school projects for them. I showed them how to find used books for their dual credit classes the first semester. After that and throughout college, they bought the books without my help at all. I did check their very first college schedule, but after that they took care of it all on their own.  Half the time i didn't know what they were taking to be honest.  They were always on the dean's list, so it was fine. They "figured it out."

I don't know.  I guess I feel like to be successful in life, you need to "figure it out."

[SKL]

In my 20s, my friends and I bought 75% of a small failing plastic factory.  The 25% owner, previously 100% owner, was winding down to retire, and he was working very part-time.  To meet big orders, we 3 women, who were mainly accountants, ran the factory overnight (I also had a full-time day job).  The remaining employees were 3 middle-aged sisters.  They taught us how to run the production machines, and then they went home.  I figured out how to run the towmotor in order to bring more material to fill up the machines.  I figured out how to fix the machines when they stopped running.  I figured out all of the historical books and got them up to date.  After about a year, we had things in good shape and sold the business for a profit.

Many times I've figured out how to fix things, or how to install something that is usually installed by an "expert."  It's satisfying.

I've taught myself how to play several instruments and how to read to a greater or lesser degree in 10 languages / 8 scripts [ (not counting English and Spanish, which I learned the traditional way, at least to start).

As a kid, I taught myself to swim.  I didn't teach myself how to ride a bike, but neighbor kids taught me that when I was 4.

 

My kids have figured a bunch out for themselves, but not more than average, I don't think.  I bought them a DS when they were 4/5 and gave it to them, thinking we'd figure it out together later.  But my 4yo read the directions and figured it out and taught her sister.  They've figured out every electronic gadget they've handled since.  😛  Same kid figured out how to be an impressive cook despite my lack of interest in cooking.  And she's always doing some new craft or project.  She knits and crochets, etc. - figured it out online.  My other kid figured out nails, hair, and make-up despite nobody else here doing any of that.

I don't think my kids are particularly adventurous, but there are times when they are more ready for the next step than I realize, so they just do it and let me find out later.  Usually this isn't a bad thing.  😛

[Clarita]

I tend to be a "figure it out" kind of person. I also don't care about "looking stupid," because I'm pretty comfortable with myself. As I get older I know more and more people who can't figure stuff out. Some, when I try to give them directions or teach them how they'll shut down and be overwhelmed. I don't understand, but I suppose that's who they are... I also think math in general is easy compared to many other subjects in life and I don't understand why people think otherwise. So, I just chalk it up to one of those things I don't understand because of who I am and how I'm wired.

Although I will also have to say I have the luck/privilege of having certain experiences in my life that boosted my self-worth and self-confidence (including having supportive people around me who love me). I realize not everyone gets those experiences. I have seen for some without those experiences it's extra hard for them to go out on a limb like I do. For me if I don't know how to do something it's just about not knowing how to do it, for others it seems there is a lot more baggage involved.

[Rosie_0801]

"Figure it out" works for the things one can figure out, but we all have things we can't figure out. Heck, most of us have things we can't figure out even when someone is explaining to us very nicely a zillion times. We certainly can't figure out things we haven't even heard of yet and we can't google how to achieve impossible things.

Nobody gets far without investment.

[SKL]

Figuring out how to explain things to others is itself something I had to figure out in my first post-graduation job.  😛  That's when I really understood what different learning styles meant.

[Clarita]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

"Figure it out" works for the things one can figure out, but we all have things we can't figure out.

And this. Quite frankly too as much as I can figure out things, when I see someone struggling I don't say "figure it out" because they don't need to walk down the path I already walked down. I can just help them out.

Also how to deal with people stuff I think shouldn't be "figure it out" because there is all sorts of wrong that makes life OK for one party but not the other party.

[Carol in Cal.]

When I was little, if I complained about a problem with a teacher, my parents would say, You need to go talk to her about it, and then if that doesn’t work we will talk to her, too.  It pretty much almost always worked without their intervention.  And I picked up an abiding habit of trying to straighten things out directly, which has been very helpful in life.  Also of asking questions, which usually (at the college level) people wouldn’t do, but were glad that I did.

Having said that, I can’t figure out everything on my own.  I studied STEM in college mostly because I wanted to be well rounded and employable, and knew that while I would also always read on my own, I would never teach myself tech stuff that way.  Also, although I am a mostly self taught weaver, initially I did take a short introductory class, and then was self taught for quite a while, and then realized that I would never teach myself a couple things I badly wanted to learn—chemical dyeing (extensively) and complex multilayer structures, so I took specific classes in those.

I think that there is value in being able to teach yourself things but also value in being taught or at least scaffolded at times.

[Brittany1116]

I have typically been able to figure things out. The older I get, the less invested I am in many types of things. Stuff I would have pushed through to learn once upon a time is now often hired out, done "good enough", or dropped altogether. By this I mean things that are not necessary for survival, income, or sanity. Could I figure out how to use the 5 different programs that the org I volunteer for proposes we check in with/follow? Yes, but for the small investment of time I have, I choose to stick to only the absolutely necessary one. 

Edited March 13 by Brittany1116

[catz]

I had to go look up in what context this was said as a spin off.  

I just think the locker thing is a trend.  When I was a student EVERYONE used a locker.  We took great pains to decorate and organize them.  Some schools aren't using them for safety reasons. And it's not on trend at other schools.  Kids are not carrying stacks of books like they are in the dark ages.  In no way do I think kids aren't using lockers because no one showed them how to do it.  It is not rocket science.  Never in the history of the world has information been more easy to access

Padlock tutorial 2:08

My mom never taught me how to cook.  She gave me free range in her kitchen. She bought me a couple cookbooks. If I didn't clean up good enough, she gave me direction that.  I loved learning to cook that way.  To this day, I still love playing with new recipes, cuisines, and techniques.  I have taken some classes over the year, but more as a social event.  I actually think I learn and retain better by at least trying to figure it out.  That's not a pride thing at all, I ask for help when I need it.  I have taken classes to get a kick start on a new skill even in recent history.  I married relatively late for this board.  I have 2 STEM degrees.  I owned my own home and worked a corporate job for years.  I've traveled alone to foreign countries, etc.  So I have just learned to be a good independant problem solver and that has served me very well in life.  Even through married life and parenting.  Another example - I knit and crochet.  I was taught the very basics from someone.  I figured everything else out - I can pretty much make anything and pattern create at this point.  I rarely repeat a pattern or an item because I like to make something new all the time.  

I think the point about confidence is a good one.  Some people are better with this than others.  I hope we all have the self confidence to try new things and have grace helping others or asking for help if we need it.  In my corner of the world I certainly don't feel "figuring things out" or communication skills is regularly holding people back.  My caveat being that I think I definitely feel like I'm still coming back out after covid and re-engaging in the world like I might have before.  At our house we got pretty used to just staying in and not engaging with the outside world for a long time.

 

[Heartstrings]

I have been the type to figure things out, and often felt a bit smug about it.   In the past few years I’ve been able to experience just how hard it is to figure things out under immense stress.  Trying to think and move in a true crisis is like swimming through syrup.   It’s really given me a different perspective.  

[Faith-manor]

22 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

"Figure it out" works for the things one can figure out, but we all have things we can't figure out. Heck, most of us have things we can't figure out even when someone is explaining to us very nicely a zillion times. We certainly can't figure out things we haven't even heard of yet and we can't google how to achieve impossible things.

Nobody gets far without investment.

Bingo!

[Carrie12345]

I am a “figured it out” person, even though I HATED it as a kid.

As a parent, I’m a “What do you think you should/need to do?” person. I want them building their figure it out skills. I’m here if they flounder.

Lockers always came with instructions on the slip of paper with the combo when I was in school. And they’re on the packaging for separate padlocks. 

[teachermom2834]

I rarely just tell my kids to figure it out. As evidenced in saying I would help my dd learn to use her lock. 
 

I’m more of a “let me help you”, “let’s figure this out together”, “what can info to support you?” My kids also figure all kinds of things out for themselves. But they know they don’t need to figure everything out themselves and they aren’t afraid to ask for help.

My adult kids are very independent but they still ask for occasional opinions but I think that is smart of them to ask for guidance. As adults they are free to take our advice or not. 
 

Dh and I did figure alot of stuff out for ourselves but it sure would have been nice to have a little more guidance. 

Edited March 14 by teachermom2834

[Alice]

Two thoughts...

-This reminds me a little of one of my least favorite phrases in the homeschool world "never do things for your kids that they can do for themselves". I don't know if it's still said a lot, but I heard it all the time when my kids were younger as a parenting "rule". And it used to really bug me and still does. I finally figured out (pun intended) that what bothered me about it was that I wouldn't treat other adults that way, including my husband, so why would I treat my kids that way? I do things for my kids all the time that they can do for themselves. I also do things for my husband that he can do for himself. Why? Because I love them. And they do things for me that I can do for myself. The problem, in my opinion, comes when you start doing everything for someone else so they don't/can't do it for themselves or if they expect you to always do it (especially in the case of a spouse). Balance is key. Similarly, I think, if you are always solving someone's problems, that's a problem. But if I know how to do a combo lock, why not just teach my kids how to do it? Some things they have to figure out how to navigate and part of figuring parenting out is to know when to help and when to step back but I do think it's fine and good to help your kids when they need it. 

-The OP reminds me a bit of the attitude a lot of doctors have about medical education. I was in the older generation that came through before a lot of the current reforms and it has changed a TON. And part of what kept it from changing was the attitude that "I had to learn how to stay up of 36 hours at a time and function, these kids can learn it too." There isn't value in doing something hard just because older generations had to do it hard. It's the "walking up hill through the snow both ways" kind of attitude. I had to figure a lot out myself when I was a teen because of family dysfunction (alcoholism, mental illness) and although I was able to do it, I am grateful for the people who did help me along the way and I'm really glad that my kids have more help than I did. 

[Clemsondana]

I don't tell my kids that they can figure everything out on their own, but I try to teach that they have the ability to get things done.  Like, when something needs to be assembled, I'm confident that I can figure it out on my own following the directions.  But, if for whatever reason you aren't built to be able to figure out that sort of thing, that's Ok - what you need to do is figure out how to get the thing built.  That may mean that you have to pay somebody to do it.  It may mean that you swap tasks with a friend - they build your bookcase, you cook them dinner.  It may mean that you know who in your family can do that sort of thing because family helps family.  It all depends on your situation.  But, I don't want them sitting around saying 'I wish I had a bookcase and I can afford this kit but there's no way for me to get it together'. 

I also don't want them to limit themselves by putting lots of things in the 'I can't do that' category.  I tend to think that many people can do a lot of things, but it's reasonable to decide if DIY is the most efficient way to do something.  I have a memory of my dad wanting me to learn to help with something and me saying that I'd never need to know how to do that and him replying that you never knew what you'd need to know so if the opportunity presented itself, learn it.  

Somewhere along the line, I also learned that the more I know, the bigger my world gets.  Even in small things...in the past few years, I've learned to run the scoreboard at the ball field and run the stat programs for both baseball and volleyball.  I've learned to use the teacher side of Canvas for my class.  I've learned to use our new large riding lawnmower and hook the wagon up to it to haul stuff around the yard.  I've learned to grow and cook with fresh herbs.  None of these are huge things, but I like that I've been able to help my kids' teams, make my class more accessible to students, and help out the family by doing new things around the house.  There are things that I outsource to my husband or other people, but I think of them as things that I don't know how to do, not things that I can't do if I ever need to learn how to do them.   

And, being willing to ask for help is huge.  Most of the things that I've learned to do involved me sitting beside somebody and saying 'teach me how to do this', or me playing around with it and then asking for help when I got stuck.  When I was an undergrad, one of the grad students said that he liked having me work on his project because I'd ask for help instead of screwing things up because I was too embarrassed to ask.  It turns out that this is true for a lot of people, not just grumpy grad students - they are happy to have help, and if you are willing to work they are happy to teach.  

I'm rambling a bit, but what I sometimes see is not people who can't figure things out, but people who are unwilling to learn even when somebody is willing to teach them.  I hate to see people do this when they are young because life throws all sorts of problems at you, and knowing things and having the confidence that you can learn to do more things can be really helpful.  

[Scarlett]

Can someone tell me what thread this is a spin off of?

[teachermom2834]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Can someone tell me what thread this is a spin off of?

It’s my thread where I mentioned kids in my dds school not using lockers because they couldn’t open the combination.

[EKS]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

t just made me think, good grief, I figure pretty much everything out ALL THE TIME.  I research and figure it out.

This.

[Pam in CT]

I didn't read the locker thread.

The older I get, the more I believe that knowing when to ask for help, knowing whom to ask for help, cultivating mentors and mentoring others are actually superpowers.  I have one kid who is truly skilled at this. In important ways it really matters.

And also in stupid ways. I can't count how often I've been wandering in some strange place with my husband, trying to find some destination, and he's pushing buttons on his phone and cursing that it's not reloading or the address is vague or whatever, while I walk up to some kindly looking stranger and just ask. Why is that hard? And yet it is.

[prairiewindmomma]

One of the things I have learned later in life, with professional guidance, is that a lot of the stories I have about going off and doing things on my own because my parents didn’t help me…..are actually stories of neglect. And, when I reframe things in terms of how I parent my own children, I agree that I would never treat my kids the way my parents treated me.

It is one thing to be autodidact and find joy and confidence in learning new things. It’s another thing to muddle through on your own because you had no other choice before you.

Often I can figure out the basics of a thing on my own, but often mastery comes with guidance from someone with more skill than me. Sometimes that guidance comes from watching a YouTube video, sometimes from IRL help. All ways of learning should be considered “good”. There is no shame in being taught something.

[KungFuPanda]

I’m a FITFO kinda girl and always have been, but I do appreciate that some things are harder than others and that’s not everyone’s personality. Still, a lot can be puzzled out by careful reading and a little bit of patience. 

I work at a community college. Most people figure their stuff out, but we have some students who just do not read the form. One form has a very short paragraph of specific instructions that they will absolutely ignore. If they don’t have the attention span for a simple form I wonder how much attention to detail they have in a college class. 

I’ve had more than one student get annoyed because they want to register for a biology 101 class and I tell them they have to pick a section. They’re frustrated that I point them to a student computer to find the information. No I can’t just read off the details of 100 sections because they don’t want to look it up. I’m happy to help them find the right place to look, but don’t get annoyed with me because it takes five minutes and you thought it would take one. Some of these new adults have the attention span of a toddler.  

[EKS]

27 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There is no shame in being taught something.

To be clear, my idea of letting a kid "figure it out" is not anticipating their every struggle and drilling them on the solution beforehand.  In the locker situation, I would expect my kid to manage on his own in the sense that he wouldn't freak out he couldn't figure it out right away.  He might ask the kid next to him.  He might spend some time fiddling with the lock after school.  He might ask me when he got home.  I might say "Oh yeah, that can be tricky at first.  Here is what I remember about it." 

That said, I was a very hands on homeschooler.  I never handed either of my kids a textbook, for example, and told them to go for it.

27 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

One of the things I have learned later in life, with professional guidance, is that a lot of the stories I have about going off and doing things on my own because my parents didn’t help me…..are actually stories of neglect.

Just because a professional says something like this doesn't mean it's true.  There is a lot of pathologizing of behavior these days that isn't actually pathological.  If you were a Gen Xer, hands off parenting was par for the course.  

Edited March 14 by EKS

[prairiewindmomma]

24 minutes ago, EKS said:

 

Just because a professional says something like this doesn't mean it's true.  There is a lot of pathologizing of behavior these days that isn't actually pathological.  If you were a Gen Xer, hands off parenting was par for the course.  

*sigh*

If we were friends IRL and we sat down over dinner and you listened to me as I shared stories, I think you would agree with me on how I call this one. Yes, the norms were hands off. No, what I experienced wasnt normal even in that context. But thanks for being dismissive. That was helpful and kind.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

To be clear, my idea of letting a kid "figure it out" is not anticipating their every struggle and drilling them on the solution beforehand.  In the locker situation, I would expect my kid to manage on his own in the sense that he wouldn't freak out he couldn't figure it out right away.  He might ask the kid next to him.  He might spend some time fiddling with the lock after school.  He might ask me when he got home.  I might say "Oh yeah, that can be tricky at first.  Here is what I remember about it." 

That said, I was a very hands on homeschooler.  I never handed either of my kids a textbook, for example, and told them to go for it.

Just because a professional says something like this doesn't mean it's true.  There is a lot of pathologizing of behavior these days that isn't actually pathological.  If you were a Gen Xer, hands off parenting was par for the course.  

 

50 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

*sigh*

If we were friends IRL and we sat down over dinner and you listened to me as I shared stories, I think you would agree with me on how I call this one. Yes, the norms were hands off. No, what I experienced wasnt normal even in that context. But thanks for being dismissive. That was helpful and kind.

I can see both points here.  As a Gen X parent of a Gen Z kid,  I get very prickly when I hear constant criticism of the parenting of entire generations of parents.  

On the other hand, there are parents who just don’t seem to teach their kids basic life. Like our youngest son’s girlfriend whose mom would not allow her or help her with  a job, driving, a license, a bank account etc. 

Or like my DIL whose very neglectful mother once bragged to her daughter about how good of a job she did raising my DIL/her dd because DIL has a good job, a home, a husband….etc….my DIL said to her mom, ‘what are you talking about? These are survival skills’.  
 
I helped our boys with a lot of stuff all the up to and after they left home.  I do use the phrase now, ‘they have to figure it out’…..because welll they are adults and I can’t solve all their problems and they don’t want me in all their business anyway. Of course if any of them comes to us with questions about anything we help,them as best we can.  

[Harriet Vane]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

One of the things I have learned later in life, with professional guidance, is that a lot of the stories I have about going off and doing things on my own because my parents didn’t help me…..are actually stories of neglect. And, when I reframe things in terms of how I parent my own children, I agree that I would never treat my kids the way my parents treated me.

It is one thing to be autodidact and find joy and confidence in learning new things. It’s another thing to muddle through on your own because you had no other choice before you.

Often I can figure out the basics of a thing on my own, but often mastery comes with guidance from someone with more skill than me. Sometimes that guidance comes from watching a YouTube video, sometimes from IRL help. All ways of learning should be considered “good”. There is no shame in being taught something.

Yes. This. Especially the bolded.

[thatfirstsip]

OP, you very regularly, over the course of many many years, come to this forum for help figuring things out  - and often they're very googleable things, like how to keep an exercise plan or manage stress or pick up a hobby or fight depression. Then you generally throw up your hands in despair and say nevermind, none of this advice will work, I'll just keep doing what I've been doing and hope something changes anyway.

People ask other people for help all the time, and/or decide something isn't worth the effort, and/or tinker with it alone until they get somewhere. 

 

 

[TexasProud]

Ok, guys, I think you may have misunderstood some of what I said.  "Figuring it out" MEANS figuring out the resources you need.  Of COURSE you don't figure out everything on your own.  As I said, I have taken classes, googled, had friends help me out whatever.

And absolutely yes, you also have a limit...  not sure what word I want here, but we all have things we don't WANT to figure out.  COULD I figure out how to change the oil in the lawn mower?  Absolutely.  I don't want to and my husband does it well, so why bother?  There are way too many things in this life to figure out EVERYTHING. 

Also, yes, there are certain things beyond my skills that I could not figure out.  Although I might could figure out a little bit about how to code a computer if I wanted to, I would not, at this age, be able to work for a company to code something for a website. 

And also, a caveat I should have put on there is disabilities change the game on most of this. My daughter's son cannot just "figure it out."

Also, I was NOT saying that we don't give instructions or help people out.  It would be negligent for me to throw my child in a pool and say, "figure it out." I gave my children swimming lessons. I did teach them how to cook.

But I also hope, and believe I did for the most part, that I gave them the skills they needed to "figure things out." I hope I modeled seeing an issue and figuring out the resources I needed to do so.  

Just ranting ( and it may not be what the commenter that I quoted from the locker thread meant AT ALL. This is just what got triggered in me when I read the comment) and the I don't know how to say it...  learned helplessness, maybe that I am seeing sometimes. 

Edited March 14 by TexasProud

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Ok, guys, I think you may have misunderstood some of what I said.  "Figuring it out" MEANS figuring out the resources you need.  Of COURSE you don't figure out everything on your own.  As I said, I have taken classes, googled, had friends help me out whatever. 

And also, a caveat I should have put on there is disabilities change the game on most of this. My daughter's son cannot just "figure it out."

 

Did I miss something?  Your daughter has a son?

Edited March 14 by Scarlett

[TexasProud]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Did I miss something?  Your daughter has a son?

LOL... oops.  My sister's son.  I call them by each other's names as well in real life.  They are similar in a lot of ways.  🙂 He is 30 years old and still lives with them.

Edited March 14 by TexasProud

[Murphy101]

13 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

"Figure it out" works for the things one can figure out, but we all have things we can't figure out. Heck, most of us have things we can't figure out even when someone is explaining to us very nicely a zillion times. We certainly can't figure out things we haven't even heard of yet and we can't google how to achieve impossible things.

Nobody gets far without investment.

Amen. 

13 hours ago, Clarita said:

And this. Quite frankly too as much as I can figure out things, when I see someone struggling I don't say "figure it out" because they don't need to walk down the path I already walked down. I can just help them out.

Also how to deal with people stuff I think shouldn't be "figure it out" because there is all sorts of wrong that makes life OK for one party but not the other party.

This.  Every day on this board alone people post all kinds of problems that they are struggling to figure out. They are posting bc they aren’t figuring it out on their own! And there’s no shame in that at all. Because none of us are getting by on our own. 

12 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Can someone tell me what thread this is a spin off of?

A ridiculously harsh thread about, of all things, how awful it is if teens don’t know how to use a combination lock and therefore aren’t using their locker. I shouldn’t have bothered to post on it.

Yes. I am a figure it out person. Because I’ve had no choice most of the time. And the result of that is there is a LOT I didn’t figure out until it was too late to be of any use to me.  This is a major reason hindsight is 20/20.  Which is utterly unhelpful when one needs it.  And there’s a lot, especially as I get older, that frankly isn’t worth my time to figure out. So I can understand a stressed out time crunched teen deciding a combination lock isn’t worth their mental energy and they’ll just not use the locker.

We can harp that teens today are just too lazy or stupid or uneducated or badly parented or must have some learning problem or disability to figure out a combination lock - OR - and I’m only suggesting that *maybe* we could just kindly show them how to use the blasted lock and leave all that other baggage at the curb for trash pick up instead of insisting the next generation carry it.

I mean if one is that invested in the tragic lack of combination lock use at lockers by teens - just showing them how to use the lock seems the most direct solution.

If some people have never needed their hand held through simple tasks to figure it out - then I’m truly happy for them. But the truth is that almost everyone repeatedly does at times in life for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with intelligence or diligence.  And it’s no fair at all that those times in life also tend to be the same times when they are the least likely to feel able to ask for help. I am forever blessed and grateful to those who have helped me figure out dumb stuff without me having to also figure out how to ask them for it. 

[Sneezyone]

12 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

The older I get, the more I believe that knowing when to ask for help, knowing whom to ask for help, cultivating mentors and mentoring others are actually superpowers.  I have one kid who is truly skilled at this. In important ways it really matters.

This part. These are skills that can be cultivated tho, even in adulthood. People who don't have them, as kids and as adults (varying degrees obvs) are challenging to work and live with. I think 'figure it out' as dogma was traumatic for me. It was a form of parental neglect. Teaching/Modeling how and when to ask for help is how I tweaked it for myself and our kids.

Edited March 14 by Sneezyone

[gardenmom5]

I think it is a gross disservice to leave anyone to just "figure it out", especially children, and especially when there are those there that know how to do whatever "it" is.  Parents need to parent so kids can learn.   

Most people are not george boole - who did just "figure things out", and who did say if he'd been able to go to college he would have just learned what his professors taught him.  Instead he developed boolean algebra.

[TexasProud]

13 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Amen. 

This.  Every day on this board alone people post all kinds of problems that they are struggling to figure out. They are posting bc they aren’t figuring it out on their own! And there’s no shame in that at all. Because none of us are getting by on our own. 

 

Again.  By posting on this board, they ARE "figuring it out."  That is part of it.   I am NOT saying that you do it all by yourself. But you figure out the people or the tools you need.

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

I think it is a gross disservice to leave anyone to just "figure it out", especially children, and especially when there are those there that know how to do whatever "it" is.  Parents need to parent so kids can learn.   

Most people are not george boole - who did just "figure things out", and who did say if he'd been able to go to college he would have just learned what his professors taught him.  Instead he developed boolean algebra.

Sigh.  AGAIN.  I am NOT saying that you don't teach them things.  You do.  But learning how to "figure things out" is a skill that needs to be taught. 

[TexasProud]

Again, the reason why figuring it out is a valuable skill to teach is how rapidly our world changes.  Growing up, we had a black and white tv. It was before VCR's. microwaves, cell phones, etc.  

You have to be continually learning or you wouldn't be able to function.  Most of what we use on a daily basis, didn't exist when i was a child.  My parents were not neglectful not to teach me things that didn't exist.  

And I am sorry to that poster whose parents WERE neglectful. That stinks.  Your experience matters.

[Murphy101]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Again.  By posting on this board, they ARE "figuring it out."  That is part of it.   I am NOT saying that you do it all by yourself. But you figure out the people or the tools you need.

What the hecken. 

If a parent sees or hears that a kid doesn’t know how to use a combination lock and the parent thinks they should know how to use a combination lock - then for crying out loud - look right there is the people the kid needs to figure it out!!!

But they are too dang busy trashing all the reasons the kid is failing at learning the basic task instead of just helping them figure it out.  The kids should ask an upperclassman, a teacher, google it - well yeah but you are standing right there able to help and doing nothing, so why would the kid expect anyone else to help?

[TexasProud]

Just now, Murphy101 said:

What the hecken. 

If a parent sees or hears that a kid doesn’t know how to use a combination lock and the parent thinks they should know how to use a combination lock - then for crying out loud - look right there is the people the kid needs to figure it out!!!

But they are too dang busy trashing all the reasons the kid is failing at learning the basic task instead of just helping them figure it out.  The kids should ask an upperclassman, a teacher, google it - well yeah but you are standing right there able to help and doing nothing, so why would the kid expect anyone else to help?

I completely agree with you.  I did not read the entire thread.  As I said, I didn't know the context of your comment, which is why I started a spin off.  But yes, you are completely right.

[TexasProud]

AGAIN, I am NOT saying that you don't help people.  That you throw up your hands and say, "figure it out."

 

Of course you don't.  But, figuring out new things is a very valuable skill everyone needs. 

[teachermom2834]

2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

What the hecken. 

If a parent sees or hears that a kid doesn’t know how to use a combination lock and the parent thinks they should know how to use a combination lock - then for crying out loud - look right there is the people the kid needs to figure it out!!!

But they are too dang busy trashing all the reasons the kid is failing at learning the basic task instead of just helping them figure it out.  The kids should ask an upperclassman, a teacher, google it - well yeah but you are standing right there able to help and doing nothing, so why would the kid expect anyone else to help?

Honestly I am really regretful I was so misunderstood. I really was taken aback that some of these super smart kids were hesitant to ask for help with this task and no one was reaching out and helping them. I helped my dd and my dd helps people and I never said anyone should just be able to figure it out. I more am sad that people don’t ask for help and it isn’t readily offered. 
 

 

[Kuovonne]

I think saying “figure it out” can mean a lot of things, depending on who is saying it, to whom it is said, if the thing is actually being done in the near future, was done in the past, or might never be done, etc.

“I can figure it out” said to oneself can be empowering. It can be a statement of self-knowledge. It can be a way to motivate oneself. 

“I can figure it out” said to someone else can mean I don't want your help right now, please leave me alone. I may or may not actually do the task. 

“You can figure it out” can mean that I refuse to help you, or I don't have the knowledge/time/resources to help you. Or it can mean that I have more confidence in your abilities than you have in yourself and I want you to grow from the experience. It can also mean that you do not need to tackle this right now and do not need to stress about it now.

 

“He/she can figure it out” said to oneself can be a way of calming fears and letting go. Said to someone else, it can be a way for the speaker to tell the listener to let go.

Edited March 14 by Kuovonne

[teachermom2834]

But I need to stop posting on both threads. Because even after 20+ years on these boards the worst intentions are always assumed.

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, Kuovonne said:

I think saying “figure it out” can mean a lot of things, depending on who is saying it, to whom it is said, if the thing is actually being done in the near future, was done in the past, or might never be done, etc.

“I can figure it out” said to oneself can be empowering. It can be a statement of self-knowledge. It can be a way to motivate oneself. 

“I can figure it out” said to someone else can mean I don't want your help right now, please leave me alone. I may or may not actually do the task. 

“You can figure it out” can mean that I refuse to help you, or I don't have the knowledge/time/resources to help you. Or it can mean that I have more confidence in your abilities than you have in yourself and I want you to grow from the experience. It can also mean that you do not need to tackle this right now and do not need to stress about it now.

YES!!!!  Exactly right!!!

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

But I need to stop posting on both threads. Because even after 20+ years on these boards the worst intentions are always assumed.

I don't assume them and if we/they do, I just don't care.  I have to keep my mouth shut everywhere as what I would say would be wrong or not helpful.  Here I can just say my opinion, shut the computer and go away. I finally get to say what I want. Finally. 

[Murphy101]

24 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I completely agree with you.  I did not read the entire thread.  As I said, I didn't know the context of your comment, which is why I started a spin off.  But yes, you are completely right.

🤦‍♀️ Maybe get context before presuming I’m for teaching learned helplessness then. 

18 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

But I need to stop posting on both threads. Because even after 20+ years on these boards the worst intentions are always assumed.

Oh good grief. I didn’t assume anything. She  literally called my post out as some kind of learned helplessness even though she didn’t bother to read the context of my post.

 

20 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Honestly I am really regretful I was so misunderstood. I really was taken aback that some of these super smart kids were hesitant to ask for help with this task and no one was reaching out and helping them.

And I get being taken aback by it.  I think we all forget how many first times we have had until we are suddenly reminded of stuff like, “oh yeah someone had to explain combination locks to me once too.”

BUT. I cannot stress enough how much a scenario like this lock scenario you describe has absolutely completely nothing to do with how smart or diligent a kid is. Nothing.  It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the smartest, hard working-est and most figure it out-est person in the world did the very same thing. 

20 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I helped my dd and my dd helps people and I never said anyone should just be able to figure it out. I more am sad that people don’t ask for help and it isn’t readily offered. 

Me too. Life is hard enough.

Edited March 14 by Murphy101

[Indigo Blue]

13 hours ago, Alice said:

Two thoughts...

-This reminds me a little of one of my least favorite phrases in the homeschool world "never do things for your kids that they can do for themselves". I don't know if it's still said a lot, but I heard it all the time when my kids were younger as a parenting "rule". And it used to really bug me and still does. I finally figured out (pun intended) that what bothered me about it was that I wouldn't treat other adults that way, including my husband, so why would I treat my kids that way? I do things for my kids all the time that they can do for themselves. I also do things for my husband that he can do for himself. Why? Because I love them. And they do things for me that I can do for myself. The problem, in my opinion, comes when you start doing everything for someone else so they don't/can't do it for themselves or if they expect you to always do it (especially in the case of a spouse). Balance is key. Similarly, I think, if you are always solving someone's problems, that's a problem. But if I know how to do a combo lock, why not just teach my kids how to do it? Some things they have to figure out how to navigate and part of figuring parenting out is to know when to help and when to step back but I do think it's fine and good to help your kids when they need it. 

-The OP reminds me a bit of the attitude a lot of doctors have about medical education. I was in the older generation that came through before a lot of the current reforms and it has changed a TON. And part of what kept it from changing was the attitude that "I had to learn how to stay up of 36 hours at a time and function, these kids can learn it too." There isn't value in doing something hard just because older generations had to do it hard. It's the "walking up hill through the snow both ways" kind of attitude. I had to figure a lot out myself when I was a teen because of family dysfunction (alcoholism, mental illness) and although I was able to do it, I am grateful for the people who did help me along the way and I'm really glad that my kids have more help than I did. 

Thank you for this. I agree with you. I think we go so far out of our way to NOT do things for children, out of fear that they will forever be damaged and stunted somehow, that it gets taken to an extreme. 
 

I feel that I was the type of mom that other younger moms would today label as helicopter mom, from the outside looking in. To me, on the inside, the way I patented felt intuitive, natural, and warm. 
 

Both of our grown sons are completely independent, happy, and self confident. 
 

It is so perplexing to me that there is this strange way of thinking that you have to back off as soon as they start walking, and the pressure from other moms to do so is strong. 
 

I guess you can tell I have strong feelings about this. 😛

 

[TexasProud]

6 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

🤦‍♀️ Maybe get context before presuming I’m for teaching learned helplessness then. 

Uggh..  I could have sworn I put in the post and I KNOW I did at one point.  I don't know what the person meant.  The phrase is triggering. But looking back, nope it isn't in there.  I was not trying to say what YOU thought, only what I thought of the phrase. I should have put that in there.

Which again, is why I don't say anything IRL.  It would be misunderstood, hurt someone's feelings or whatever.  I get so so tired of guarding my words. 

[TexasProud]

26 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Thank you for this. I agree with you. I think we go so far out of our way to NOT do things for children, out of fear that they will forever be damaged and stunted somehow, that it gets taken to an extreme. 
 

I feel that I was the type of mom that other younger moms would today label as helicopter mom, from the outside looking in. To me, on the inside, the way I patented felt intuitive, natural, and warm. 
 

Both of our grown sons are completely independent, happy, and self confident. 
 

It is so perplexing to me that there is this strange way of thinking that you have to back off as soon as they start walking, and the pressure from other moms to do so is strong. 
 

I guess you can tell I have strong feelings about this. 😛

 

Honestly, if we looked at both of our actual parenting, I bet they are pretty close. 

[Murphy101]

24 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Uggh..  I could have sworn I put in the post and I KNOW I did at one point.  I don't know what the person meant.  The phrase is triggering. But looking back, nope it isn't in there.  I was not trying to say what YOU thought, only what I thought of the phrase. I should have put that in there.

Which again, is why I don't say anything IRL.  It would be misunderstood, hurt someone's feelings or whatever.  I get so so tired of guarding my words. 

I’m not so much offended as just irked. 

But hey. We figured this out. 😁

Side topic.  I think “figure it out on your own” is just another way of saying “f around and find out”.  While it often does result in finding out, most people don’t think it the best first go-to option.  I have no idea how often I or some other parent has thought, “oh they can figure it out.” And we weren’t wrong. They did indeed figure out a new way to do something wrongly that we really didn’t expect them think of.🙃

[TexasProud]

Just now, Murphy101 said:

. They did indeed figure out a new way to do something wrongly that we really didn’t expect them think of.🙃

LOL, so true!!!

[SKL]

FTR I literally tell my kids "figure it out" rather often, when they are trying to use lack of experience as an excuse.

Kids do need to practice "figure it out" as a life skill.  It's also necessary to their self-esteem.

THAT SAID.  I have been blessed with two very different kids.  If I only had my younger kid, I'd probably be ranting that everyone's kid could figure out everything and we're all trying to raise idiots.  😛  But thankfully, I have my elder.

My elder kid has a lot of challenges, not the least of which is OCD.  She was terrified of cooking, even in the microwave, for years, because a couple of times she forgot to add water to a convenience food before microwaving it.  She was afraid she'd burn the house down.  It took her a long time to fight through this fear and start using a few basic cooking skills again.

The combination lock would not have been easy for this kid, probably.  Her OCD includes aversions to certain numbers, and also causes her to keep doing certain actions over and over and over.  At the age when she started high school, her OCD symptoms were at their peak.  She also has memory and vision issues.  We didn't end up having to try the lock thing due to Covid, but it would have been a challenge.  Whether or not she would fight through it would depend largely on peer pressure.  She would not have wanted to be the only kid carrying her backpack and coat around.  On the flip side, she would not have wanted to be the only kid asking for help learning the combination.  Ultimately, she would have "figured out" what worked best for her.

Asking for help is a life skill for sure.  It's not easy to do in high school though.  I am not sure why it's socially difficult.  But tbh it's always been difficult for me, as well.