s/0 Figuring things out

[Carol in Cal.]

SKL, I feel the same way about teaching environmental issues to kids too young.  Better that they learn to love the outdoors, and wild nature, and not to associate it with depression and hopelessness during a time of life when they can’t do much if anything about it anyway.

[Kassia]

16 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

SKL, I feel the same way about teaching environmental issues to kids too young.  Better that they learn to love the outdoors, and wild nature, and not to associate it with depression and hopelessness during a time of life when they can’t do much if anything about it anyway.

I was just talking to DH about this the other day.  We can talk about things we can do to help keep the planet healthier and safer rather than frighten kids.  

[Clemsondana]

I think it's awful to spend a lot of time teaching young kids about things that they can't do anything to help solve.  Lots of people, kids included, face real world stresses that they can't avoid or change (a loved one's illness or death, parental divorce, mistreatment by somebody, not being able to afford what a friend can, being academically behind, or too tall or too short or otherwise looking different from everybody else).  We need to help them to deal with that rather than pile more on them.  When you are 5 or 8, you can't do anything about pollution or systemic racism.  But, you can make your community better by being less wasteful, not taking more than you need, not littering, picking up trash, being a good friend, welcoming a new kid, or some other kid-sized thing.  Let them make a difference, and maybe they'll be be able to handle bigger challenges.  I have a friend who had her kids at a private school K-8 specifically because they let kids be kids around all sorts of issues.  They were aware of them, as were we when I was a kid, but they weren't presented as problems for us to solve, and I think that's a difference.  

I think that some of the things being discussed - overwhelming kids with adult issues, shooter drills, etc - can be issues on a societal level but I don't think they are what is affecting the kids in my classroom.  I'm not even sure they are primary drivers of the lack of 'want to' that I see locally, just knowing the culture.  But, I wonder if it's dramatic enough in some environments that it's setting the tone for teens as far as what they see on youtube or wherever they watch content.  The stress, or apathy, is setting the tone for what 'normal' is in the same way that Teen magazine used to tell us what to wear.  

My kid who plays ball on a public school team, one of the motivated seniors that I was talking about, said that after AP exam scores came out and the kids didn't pass, they said that they didn't expect to - they had taken the class first semester on block scheduling, and the teacher didn't do anything to help them refresh second semester.  My kid was incredulous - there are free videos on the college board website, and prep books at the library.  

One other thing that I'm seeing some of is that kids who don't have a ton of life experience are watching videos and then ascribing motives and diagnoses to other people.  Their parent or teacher isn't just 'mean' (and by mean I mean saying no in a normal adult way), they are a narcissist.  They aren't just upset because a sibling said something mean, they have trauma.  Teens tend to be dramatic with emotions, but this vocabulary is causing some kids to take normal frustrations and upsets and believe that horrible things have happened to them.  This is not to say that nobody deals with trauma or a narcissist parent, but most kids don't.  I don't think that it's helpful for kids to tell themself that upsetting situations that in the past kids would have fretted over and then gotten over are going to cause them life-long trauma.  But, they don't have the wisdom and perspective to recognize that the situation is part of normal life, because how could they?  I wonder if this framing is causing similar 'under attack' feelings that were being talked about above in the active shooter drills.  And, once the adults are framed as unreasonable, there's less incentive to take guidance from them - their suggestion to watch a video or ask for help or use a glossary is part of the same unreasonableness.

[Heartstrings]

Im interested in non-American boardies.  Are the kids in other countries as apathetic as ours? 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Clemsondana said:

Their parent or teacher isn't just 'mean' (and by mean I mean saying no in a normal adult way), they are a narcissist.  They aren't just upset because a sibling said something mean, they have trauma.  Teens tend to be dramatic with emotions, but this vocabulary is causing some kids to take normal frustrations and upsets and believe that horrible things have happened to them.  This is not to say that nobody deals with trauma or a narcissist parent, but most kids don't.  I don't think that it's helpful for kids to tell themself that upsetting situations that in the past kids would have fretted over and then gotten over are going to cause them life-long trauma. 

This. Here is where I see a negative effect of the (very valid and important) focus on mental health, self-care, etc. When simply disagreeing causes young people to feel "unsafe", when criticism "traumatizes", when college students feel threatened in their emotional balance because they are exposed to different viewpoints, the pendulum has swung too far.

As for the cause, the constant online presence is very likely a strong contributor. Teens lounging in echo chambers and parroting language they find appealing. 

And yes, it's ironic, as pp pointed out, that young people never before had such easy access to information and education, and as many options for life as now.

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

SKL, I feel the same way about teaching environmental issues to kids too young.  Better that they learn to love the outdoors, and wild nature, and not to associate it with depression and hopelessness during a time of life when they can’t do much if anything about it anyway.

I believe a disconnect to nature and the outdoors fuels the current crisis. Kids spend their day in front of screens instead of playing in the mud, wading a creek, climbing trees, and becoming intimately familiar with their natural environment. When I was a kid, pediatricians recommended 2-3 hours of outdoor play each day. 

As an adult, I feel acutely how harmful the typical Western lifestyle is to mental health. I can take steps to adjust my life, and increasing physical exertion outdoors, way more than we think we should have, has helped me immensely. Kids don't have much agency. And when parents prioritize structured activities and  constant supervision, kids don't get these experiences which I believe are crucial for healthy development. We haven't evolved over thousands of years as sedentary indoor creatures.

Edited March 15 by regentrude

[Faith-manor]

39 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I believe a disconnect to nature and the outdoors fuels the current crisis. Kids spend their day in front of screens instead of playing in the mud, wading a creek, climbing trees, and becoming intimately familiar with their natural environment. When I was a kid, pediatricians recommended 2-3 hours of outdoor play each day. 

As an adult, I feel acutely how harmful the typical Western lifestyle is to mental health. I can take steps to adjust my life, and increasing physical exertion outdoors, way more than we think we should have, has helped me immensely. Kids don't have much agency. And when parents prioritize structured activities and  constant supervision, kids don't get these experiences which I believe are crucial for healthy development. We haven't evolved over thousands of years as sedentary indoor creatures.

I agree with this. I wish we had more opportunities for kids to explore, and love the idea of the forest schools/kindergartens of Denmark.

[regentrude]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

I agree with this. I wish we had more opportunities for kids to explore, and love the idea of the forest schools/kindergartens of Denmark.

We now have a small outdoor school here in our town!

[Faith-manor]

By the way everyone, we spent two hours on zoom with our new rocket team this afternoon. My first impression is that they are going to be a great group of young adults to work with. They are deliberately challenging themselves and stepping outside their comfort zones in order to grow personally and professionally.

So I just want to say, this generation is not all bad. Some of them are pretty neat people! Don't lose hope.

[TexasProud]

13 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

By the way everyone, we spent two hours on zoom with our new rocket team this afternoon. My first impression is that they are going to be a great group of young adults to work with. They are deliberately challenging themselves and stepping outside their comfort zones in order to grow personally and professionally.

So I just want to say, this generation is not all bad. Some of them are pretty neat people! Don't lose hope.

Absolutely!!!

[regentrude]

17 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

So I just want to say, this generation is not all bad. Some of them are pretty neat people! Don't lose hope.

Oh absolutely. I see wonderful motivated young people every day.

[Rosie_0801]

8 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Im interested in non-American boardies.  Are the kids in other countries as apathetic as ours? 

From what I see, it depends how much time they spend being raised by their parents v the internet.

[Laura Corin]

On 3/14/2024 at 5:50 PM, 2squared said:

I have two early 20-something employees, one who does figure stuff out and execute and one who does not. It is SO HARD to manage an early career professional who has to basically be babysat through problem solving. 

Learning how to figure stuff out and get things done is a critical life skill. 

For comparison,  we have recently hired two administrators in their fifties, both of whom have required extreme spoonfeeding of all tasks. The first's boss reluctantly corralled them into a few tasks where they had been coached exceptionally extensively - including rewriting instruction documents specifically for them because they couldn't figure out the standard ones.  Their colleagues stopped asking them for help. They finally left of their own accord for another department,  where we hear they are 'not competent and not nice'. Meanwhile we hired a brilliant 22-y-o who did everything. 

13 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Im interested in non-American boardies.  Are the kids in other countries as apathetic as ours? 

Yes and no. We have problems with attendance at lectures which are also available online. Tutorials are compulsory and we receive a lot of certification that they couldn't attend due to anxiety.  The vocabulary doesn't differentiate between a clinical issue and 'being a bit worried' for a specific reason. Which makes it hard to know what's going on and to support those who are in trouble.

I remember apathy in class as an undergraduate in the UK in 1981. I was often the only person who spoke in 6-person tutorials.

[Clemsondana]

One other challenge for these kiddos is their level of distraction. I taught a study skills class for 8-9th graders.  I asked how long they could focus, and many insisted it was over an hour when I suggested studying intently for 20 minutes.  When I asked how frequently they were disrupted by a text or notification of some sort, some replied Around 20 times an hour.  They didn't feel that they needed to disconnect for bursts to be productive.  I can't imagine learning when being interrupted every few minutes.  I remember teens insisting that we could study while watching tv, but we learned that we couldn't and turned it off. They never take off their smart watch. The degree of  phone attachment and expectations around response times seem to differ significantly between different social groups.  

Edited March 16 by Clemsondana

[2squared]

2 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

For comparison,  we have recently hired two administrators in their fifties, both of whom have required extreme spoonfeeding of all tasks. The first's boss reluctantly corralled them into a few tasks where they had been coached exceptionally extensively - including rewriting instruction documents specifically for them because they couldn't figure out the standard ones.  Their colleagues stopped asking them for help. They finally left of their own accord for another department,  where we hear they are 'not competent and not nice'. Meanwhile we hired a brilliant 22-y-o who did everything. 

Oh, my gosh, yes. My comment was not intended to suggest that only young people have issues with figuring things out. I meant to highlight that critical thinking and execution are extremely important skills.
 

I just got through a 40+ year employee’s retirement. Her skills had seriously eroded over the past few years, and i would have had to terminate her employment if she didn’t retire when she did. after that experience, I definitely worry about my aging process and effectiveness in the workforce. And…I see why older people do lose their jobs and why it’s hard to get another one. Aging sucks. 

[Laura Corin]

4 hours ago, 2squared said:

Oh, my gosh, yes. My comment was not intended to suggest that only young people have issues with figuring things out. I meant to highlight that critical thinking and execution are extremely important skills.
 

I just got through a 40+ year employee’s retirement. Her skills had seriously eroded over the past few years, and i would have had to terminate her employment if she didn’t retire when she did. after that experience, I definitely worry about my aging process and effectiveness in the workforce. And…I see why older people do lose their jobs and why it’s hard to get another one. Aging sucks. 

I think that in the particular case I mentioned, staying in one job for a long time and not otherwise keeping up with technology played a part. Her previous job of 20 years used proprietary software and only very few systems.  She didn't even know how to bookmark a Web page and refused to learn.

[Faith-manor]

Here is another piece of the puzzle, possibly.

I am reading another book on climate change and air pollution. I just started the chapter on indoor air quality falling since 2000, and how badly it is falling. There was a comprehensive study of elementary schools in Texas just a few years ago, and found that the average air pollution of just CO2 was 1000 parts per million with some schools as high as 3000 parts per million. At 930 parts per million, there is a 21% decline in cognitive ability. NASA and other entities who have reason to very much worry about indoor air quality and CO2 accumulation sees a 50% decline in cognitive function, reaction/response times, ability to perform basic tasks at 1400 ppm.

Our buildings and air pollution could be damaging Gen Z and Gen Alpha's brains across the board, an epidemic of brain damage when you consider years of this kind of exposure not just a few hours or a few minutes. Scott Kelly talks about what it was like to be on the space station and have even a small function in the CO2 scrubbers and how hard it is to "mind over matter" through the repairs or filter changing. It is 100% noticeable below 930 ppm, and anything above it they feel very acutely. Of course we all know that urban, inner city, and often poor schools have it the worst with old buildings that do not have updated air ventilation systems and sensors.

Who knows what the middle and high schools are like. Probably worse when you consider that children in elementary usually still have recesses/play periods outside. So if the air quality outside is better than inside (that could be hit and miss for sure in urban environments), then they get a break from the CO2. But the older kids do not, and then we ship them off to college, trade school, and licensing programs with brains that have been poisoned for years.

Add to that things like lead in the water, and we are just poisoning millions of children who become adults suffering from all that damage. In Flint, Mi, there are teachers who will have upwards of 35-40 children per elementary classroom and 100% of the class is on IEPs due to brain injuries from the lead. They are lowest paid teachers in the state on average, but the city was angry with them the other day when they were offered and insulting teaching contract and instead voiced their anger with a sick out day. Flint isn't the only community with this going on. The capitol region of New York has a terrible lead in the water issue. Many many places.

I am sure that there is a great deal of complexity to why young adults are struggling with cognitive and execution issues, attitudes about work and academics. But, after what I just read and knowing what the children of Flint face, I have to wonder if this is not a significant part of the issue which is going to get worse as air quality declines and CO2 isn't he environment increases.

Short term help is available. Spider plants, bamboo plant, snake plant, and golden pothos plant all do a fine job of using up CO2 and exhaling oxygen. Turning elementary school rooms into little plant nurseries is a low cost solution to improving air quality. It doesn't take a forest of plants to see a noticeable increase in oxygen. Caring for plants is good for children as well. Propagating these plants in middle and high school life science would be a nice laboratory activity for students, and excess new plants could be sold in the community. Many a grandparent will pay more for a plant that junior grew than they would at the nursery in order to be supportive. Obviously though, just an emergency stop gap measure.

[Murphy101]

27 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Here is another piece of the puzzle, possibly.

I am reading another book on climate change and air pollution. I just started the chapter on indoor air quality falling since 2000, and how badly it is falling. There was a comprehensive study of elementary schools in Texas just a few years ago, and found that the average air pollution of just CO2 was 1000 parts per million with some schools as high as 3000 parts per million. At 930 parts per million, there is a 21% decline in cognitive ability. NASA and other entities who have reason to very much worry about indoor air quality and CO2 accumulation sees a 50% decline in cognitive function, reaction/response times, ability to perform basic tasks at 1400 ppm.

Our buildings and air pollution could be damaging Gen Z and Gen Alpha's brains across the board, an epidemic of brain damage when you consider years of this kind of exposure not just a few hours or a few minutes. Scott Kelly talks about what it was like to be on the space station and have even a small function in the CO2 scrubbers and how hard it is to "mind over matter" through the repairs or filter changing. It is 100% noticeable below 930 ppm, and anything above it they feel very acutely. Of course we all know that urban, inner city, and often poor schools have it the worst with old buildings that do not have updated air ventilation systems and sensors.

Who knows what the middle and high schools are like. Probably worse when you consider that children in elementary usually still have recesses/play periods outside. So if the air quality outside is better than inside (that could be hit and miss for sure in urban environments), then they get a break from the CO2. But the older kids do not, and then we ship them off to college, trade school, and licensing programs with brains that have been poisoned for years.

Add to that things like lead in the water, and we are just poisoning millions of children who become adults suffering from all that damage. In Flint, Mi, there are teachers who will have upwards of 35-40 children per elementary classroom and 100% of the class is on IEPs due to brain injuries from the lead. They are lowest paid teachers in the state on average, but the city was angry with them the other day when they were offered and insulting teaching contract and instead voiced their anger with a sick out day. Flint isn't the only community with this going on. The capitol region of New York has a terrible lead in the water issue. Many many places.

I am sure that there is a great deal of complexity to why young adults are struggling with cognitive and execution issues, attitudes about work and academics. But, after what I just read and knowing what the children of Flint face, I have to wonder if this is not a significant part of the issue which is going to get worse as air quality declines and CO2 isn't he environment increases.

Short term help is available. Spider plants, bamboo plant, snake plant, and golden pothos plant all do a fine job of using up CO2 and exhaling oxygen. Turning elementary school rooms into little plant nurseries is a low cost solution to improving air quality. It doesn't take a forest of plants to see a noticeable increase in oxygen. Caring for plants is good for children as well. Propagating these plants in middle and high school life science would be a nice laboratory activity for students, and excess new plants could be sold in the community. Many a grandparent will pay more for a plant that junior grew than they would at the nursery in order to be supportive. Obviously though, just an emergency stop gap measure.

So take that info and combine it with the digital dungeon affect when most school work is online and most “social” interaction is online and work from home scenarios - so that dynamic means they are enduring the same unresolved pollution issues of 15 years ago, but enduring it in an extended concentrated manner. 

[Murphy101]

5 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

One other challenge for these kiddos is their level of distraction. I taught a study skills class for 8-9th graders.  I asked how long they could focus, and many insisted it was over an hour when I suggested studying intently for 20 minutes.  When I asked how frequently they were disrupted by a text or notification of some sort, some replied Around 20 times an hour.  They didn't feel that they needed to disconnect for bursts to be productive.  I can't imagine learning when being interrupted every few minutes.  I remember teens insisting that we could study while watching tv, but we learned that we couldn't and turned it off. They never take off their smart watch. The degree of  phone attachment and expectations around response times seem to differ significantly between different social groups.  

Though honestly they mistake focus with entertained and end up with unreasonable expectations. Most teens and adults deeply focus best in 20 minute intervals. Maybe 30 minutes. But after that their focus starts to wain.

So while they might continue to make the effort, they’d probably study better if they stopped after 20-30 minutes to do something else and then come back to it in 30 minutes. 

[Faith-manor]

11 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

So take that info and combine it with the digital dungeon affect when most school work is online and most “social” interaction is online and work from home scenarios - so that dynamic means they are enduring the same unresolved pollution issues of 15 years ago, but enduring it in an extended concentrated manner. 

I think so. I have no expertise of course, but this adds up to me.

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Here is another piece of the puzzle, possibly.

I am reading another book on climate change and air pollution. I just started the chapter on indoor air quality falling since 2000, and how badly it is falling. There was a comprehensive study of elementary schools in Texas just a few years ago, and found that the average air pollution of just CO2 was 1000 parts per million with some schools as high as 3000 parts per million. At 930 parts per million, there is a 21% decline in cognitive ability. NASA and other entities who have reason to very much worry about indoor air quality and CO2 accumulation sees a 50% decline in cognitive function, reaction/response times, ability to perform basic tasks at 1400 ppm.

Our buildings and air pollution could be damaging Gen Z and Gen Alpha's brains across the board, an epidemic of brain damage when you consider years of this kind of exposure not just a few hours or a few minutes. Scott Kelly talks about what it was like to be on the space station and have even a small function in the CO2 scrubbers and how hard it is to "mind over matter" through the repairs or filter changing. It is 100% noticeable below 930 ppm, and anything above it they feel very acutely. Of course we all know that urban, inner city, and often poor schools have it the worst with old buildings that do not have updated air ventilation systems and sensors.

Who knows what the middle and high schools are like. Probably worse when you consider that children in elementary usually still have recesses/play periods outside. So if the air quality outside is better than inside (that could be hit and miss for sure in urban environments), then they get a break from the CO2. But the older kids do not, and then we ship them off to college, trade school, and licensing programs with brains that have been poisoned for years.

Add to that things like lead in the water, and we are just poisoning millions of children who become adults suffering from all that damage. In Flint, Mi, there are teachers who will have upwards of 35-40 children per elementary classroom and 100% of the class is on IEPs due to brain injuries from the lead. They are lowest paid teachers in the state on average, but the city was angry with them the other day when they were offered and insulting teaching contract and instead voiced their anger with a sick out day. Flint isn't the only community with this going on. The capitol region of New York has a terrible lead in the water issue. Many many places.

I am sure that there is a great deal of complexity to why young adults are struggling with cognitive and execution issues, attitudes about work and academics. But, after what I just read and knowing what the children of Flint face, I have to wonder if this is not a significant part of the issue which is going to get worse as air quality declines and CO2 isn't he environment increases.

Short term help is available. Spider plants, bamboo plant, snake plant, and golden pothos plant all do a fine job of using up CO2 and exhaling oxygen. Turning elementary school rooms into little plant nurseries is a low cost solution to improving air quality. It doesn't take a forest of plants to see a noticeable increase in oxygen. Caring for plants is good for children as well. Propagating these plants in middle and high school life science would be a nice laboratory activity for students, and excess new plants could be sold in the community. Many a grandparent will pay more for a plant that junior grew than they would at the nursery in order to be supportive. Obviously though, just an emergency stop gap measure.

I'm not buying this.  Previous generations breathed poorly vented smoke from wood or coal fires all day.  City kids had much worse pollution until recent years.  Not to mention the commonness of indoor smoking, even in schools.  More and more schools are air conditioned today, but even those that aren't can't be as bad as what average families had to breathe 24/7 for long time periods.

Edited March 16 by SKL

[Clemsondana]

12 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Though honestly they mistake focus with entertained and end up with unreasonable expectations. Most teens and adults deeply focus best in 20 minute intervals. Maybe 30 minutes. But after that their focus starts to wain.

So while they might continue to make the effort, they’d probably study better if they stopped after 20-30 minutes to do something else and then come back to it in 30 minutes. 

Yep!  I was introducing Pomodoros and they said that they could do a days school work with continuous focus.  it turns out that they dont have time to read a paragraph or do 3 math problems without interruption.  

[Murphy101]

24 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm not buying this.  Previous generations breathed poorly vented smoke from wood or coal fires all day.

rarely was it all day. Except in cities. 

24 minutes ago, SKL said:

City kids had much worse pollution until recent years.

I would rephrase that to they had different pollution. 

24 minutes ago, SKL said:

More and more schools are air conditioned today, but even those that aren't can't be as bad as what average families had to breathe 24/7 for long time periods.

Average families of the cities during early industrial times? Idk about that. I think the problem is different but still a problem.  While back then the pollutants where easy to see what with the black smoke stacks and colored or weird smelling water - that we have managed to make things prettier doesn’t necessarily mean it’s less polluted.

But the one thing I know to be fact is never question that things can indeed be worse. 

[Faith-manor]

12 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

rarely was it all day. Except in cities. 

I would rephrase that to they had different pollution. 

Average families of the cities during early industrial times? Idk about that. I think the problem is different but still a problem.  While back then the pollutants where easy to see what with the black smoke stacks and colored or weird smelling water - that we have managed to make things prettier doesn’t necessarily mean it’s less polluted.

But the one thing I know to be fact is never question that things can indeed be worse. 

This.

And in times past, children who had trouble learning were just labeled dumb and lazy. It is entirely possible pollution was negatively affecting them. Lots of kids, particularly those in urban, industrialized areas were labeled this because school wasn't easy for them. But of course, it is just easier to call negatively label people. We actually can change things. We can find out where the complexity of issues lies and tackle them one by one. However, mostly, society doesn't care enough to boot out the leadership and the money controllers who clearly don't give a crap.

Anyone who would dismiss lead in water and what it does to developing brains when the science is so incredibly settled just makes my brain twitch.

I also do not understand this glowing view of the past as if these problems did not exist. They existed aplenty. History is written by the victors, usually the white, rich victors, or those seeking to paint a rosy glow over the reality of millions and billions. Have we forgotten the abject pollution of workhouses, factories, inner cities, the smog alerts that kept children from being able to go outside and produced lung damage in small children in L.A. schools? Do we honestly think those kids didn't have major problems in school living through that? They did. But they were the forgotten children that no one seemed to care about. Just because the smog could be seen, doesn't make unseen co2 of today, heavy metals in the air from exhaust, etc. less dangerous, less of a major issue for the development of children.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I'm not buying this.  Previous generations breathed poorly vented smoke from wood or coal fires all day.  City kids had much worse pollution until recent years.  More and more schools are air conditioned today, but even those that aren't can't be as bad as what average families had to breathe 24/7 for long time periods.

But 100-150 years ago few children went beyond 8th grade, if that, and many of the poorest (i.e. the ones most likely to be breathing coal smoke 24/7) had little to no schooling, instead going to work in factories, mines, etc., for pennies a day to help support their families. Even as recently as 1940, less that 30% of American adults had a HS diploma, so comparing the cognitive and academic capabilities of the average child 100-150 years ago to children in 2024 makes no sense. And if your argument is that breathing heavily polluted air 24/7 didn't cause any cognitive issues in the past, I don't even know what to say to that.

When I was a kid in the 60s & 70s, we had recess before school (buses dropped kids at school well before classes started so we could run around on the playground for a bit, which not only helped "get the wiggles out" physically, it made sure our brains were well oxygenated and ready for work), plus we had a solid half hour of outdoor recess after lunch, and in the youngest grades we also had short breaks mid-morning and mid-afternoon. Windows were always open when it was warm, and even in the winter they were often cracked open to keep the room from getting too warm and making kids sleepy. 

After school we would play outside for a couple of hours until dinner, then do homework (with books and paper), then maybe watch a couple of TV shows if we finished all our homework. Most weekends we were outside all day every day, in all weather except pouring rain. Now so many kids are just stuck indoors all day, focused on screens in school, after school, at night, and on weekends. 

When you add together the factors of high CO2 due to poor indoor air quality, plus lack of sunlight and physical activity, plus 24/7 interaction with screens that present information in shallow, bite-sized pieces with little opportunity for deeper engagement and analysis, plus an all-pervasive angertainment industry selling doom and gloom 24/7, I don't see how that combination could do anything but damage developing brains.

Edited March 16 by Corraleno

[Halftime Hope]

On 3/14/2024 at 12:50 PM, 2squared said:

I have two early 20-something employees, one who does figure stuff out and execute and one who does not. It is SO HARD to manage an early career professional who has to basically be babysat through problem solving.

I can absolutely relate to this. Similar challenges in my workplace.

[Faith-manor]

From "The Uninhabitable Earth", pg. 113, excerpt of Lancet articles pertaining to air pollution, particularly high CO2 but other contaminants as well:

" The public health damage is indiscriminate, touching nearly every human vulnerability. Pollution increases prevalence of stroke, heart disease, cancer of all kinds, acute and chronic respiratory diseases like asthma, and adverse pregnancy outcomes including premature birth. New research into behavioral and developmental effects is perhaps even scarier: air pollution has been linked to worse memory, attention, and vocabulary, and to ADHD and autism spectrum disorders. Pollution has been shown to damage the development of neurons in the brain and proximity to a coal plant can deform your DNA."

I think it is ridiculous to dismiss air quality as one of the reasons in the bucket of issues that leads to the executive function problems and general apathy we see with many (but not all by any stretch) students and young adults today. Water quality as well.

My own eldest grandson, while academically brilliant, is having behavioral symptoms related to lead exposure in gestation and infancy. The impulsivity is real, very real though the lead exposure was diagnosed at 12 months of age, a whole house reverse osmosis filter put in place immediately, and steps taken to ameliorate the effects. This could very well be a lifelong problem for him. At the time of dd's pregnancy with him, and during his infancy, they lived in a very middle class neighborhood of Schenectady, NY on city water. It was the city water, not the pipes, that was the source of the lead. It was a very well known problem in the capitol region of NY, and nothing was really being done about it. It was found on routine bloodwork that nearly all the pediatricians in the area were doing on infants and toddlers. Dd and husband could not afford that filter and installation. We paid for it. And there is such a huge difference between he and his younger brother, born in Huntsville (to a rental home that we had installed that same filter system to the minute they moved there just in case) that it is startling. Anecdotal yes. But the reality is we have known about lead exposure and its effects on child development, adult neurological and behavioral issues for decades. NRDC.org. 2021, 61 million people experienced long term exposure to lead levels well beyond the 5ppm established by the EPA. That is 1/5 of the population, roughly, and this had been going on for many years. Coming to a classroom near you.....

I truly believe that when added to the digital age issues, pandemic school shut down disasters, and especially high rates of depression in the US, less sense of well being (we are so far below the Scandinavian and most Western European countries, Japan, etc. for general wellness), and the absolute travesty that passes for foundational education, it is no mystery really why we have a lot of students/young adults who are not functioning well at all.

If we don't clean up this crap, it is only going to get worse.

[SKL]

I never said air quality doesn't affect cognitive ability, energy, etc.

I said I don't buy that it's currently worsening to the point where we can't expect young people to think any more.

Air quality for US kids - indoor and outdoor - has improved a lot over the years we've had public education.

Besides that, some of the smartest young people in the world come from countries where their best air quality, indoor or out, is worse than some of our worst in the US.  They've lived like that since birth, 24/7/365, and yet, they are still brilliant.

I also never said anything about water.  Water quality in the US depends a lot on the plumbing, particularly how old it is.  The US banned lead plumbing for new structures in 1986.  I don't know what the progress is on getting rid of the pre-1986 plumbing in schools, but please don't tell me that lead in school water is increasing and making today's kids stupider than last generation's kids.  (And if lead in the school water was the problem, well, today's kids should be geniuses, considering how they shut down all the water fountains in 2020 and started making the kids buy bottled water in school.)

Edited March 17 by SKL

[Heartstrings]

52 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

the absolute travesty that passes for foundational education, it is no mystery really why we have a lot of students/young adults who are not functioning well at all.

I agree with everything else you wrote, but I truly don’t think this part is getting enough attention.  So many of these kids are so far BEHIND, of course they are apathetic or acting out.  They know they can’t catch up, if you are on a 2nd grade level in 8th grade you are fully aware that you are so far behind you’ll never catch up.  It’s easier and psychologically protective to just pretend you don’t care, or to sass or talk back to draw attention away from your deficits.     At a minimum this also affects the “smart” kids by setting a culture and environment where not caring is cool.  
 

And no one is doing anything about this except pointing fingers and debating a parents role vs. a teachers role vs. what admin is doing, meanwhile the kids go on uneducated.
 

Edited March 17 by Heartstrings

[SKL]

As for accountability, there's plenty to go around.  Yes, it's on parents if they gave their kids too many screens too early, didn't make them move, didn't provide them with age-appropriate mental and social challenges.  Yes, some of it is on schools, and some of it is on the broader community.  But once a kid is 13 or so, some of it is definitely on the teen, and certainly by college age, it's time to take full responsibility to at least do one's personal best.

I dare my kid to try to spout some crap about "I can't keep up in college because CO2."  Bring it on, chickie.  😛

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I dare my kid to try to spout some crap about "I can't keep up in college because CO2."  Bring it on, chickie. 

Still can’t hurt to send a small air purifier and maybe a bamboo plant to the dorm, just to cover everything.   Then you can ask if their running their purifier or watering their plants when they complain about a hard class.  😆.