Troubled young adults

[Scarlett]

thank you.

please don’t quote. 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Scarlett

[Rosie_0801]

You probably can't tell and you either enable them or you don't. (I obviously can't comment on services available, but there probably aren't any.)

You might go look at the relationship and shame vids by 'Autism from the Inside' on Youtube.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

You probably can't tell and you either enable them or you don't. (I obviously can't comment on services available, but there probably aren't any.)

You might go look at the relationship and shame vids by 'Autism from the Inside' on Youtube.

Well, we really want to know if he can’t help himself or care for himself. It greatly affects how we feel and how we treat him and the advise we give SIL.  

Edited August 21, 2023 by Scarlett

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Well, we really want to k kw if he can’t help himself or care for himself. It greatly affects how we feel and how we treat him and the advise we give SIL.  

Of course you want to know. But you can't know, so I recommend those videos as another perspective to chew over. When a person has disintegrated into that much of a mess, shame is so huge that can't and won't merge into an indistinguishable mess.

From the outside it looks like if they only got off their butt and did this one sensible thing or stopped doing this one stupid thing, they'd be fine, but from the inside they are not one single thing, but chain reactions that go on and on into all sorts of seemingly unrelated places.

In practical terms, you either feed and house the guy or you don't. But if it is background info, context, etc you want, learn more about shame.

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Of course you want to know. But you can't know, so I recommend those videos as another perspective to chew over. When a person has disintegrated into that much of a mess, shame is so huge that can't and won't merge into an indistinguishable mess.

From the outside it looks like if they only got off their butt and did this one sensible thing or stopped doing this one stupid thing, they'd be fine, but from the inside they are not one single thing, but chain reactions that go on and on into all sorts of seemingly unrelated places.

In practical terms, you either feed and house the guy or you don't. But if it is background info, context, etc you want, learn more about shame.

The family has talked about it endlessly….but I do agree it comes down to enable him or not.  

[Janeway]

I am guessing he is not capable. The world is crazy now and has been since 2020. By crazy, I mean more than usual. Young adults are getting it the worst. And this young adult you are describing has autism. Tonight, I watched my sweet young adult son stare out the window, with tears running down his face. Then finally he tells me he will never have children because having autism is miserable and he doesn’t fit in and he is lonely.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Janeway

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

The family has talked about it endlessly….but I do agree it comes down to enable him or not.  

If you reword it as "keep him as safe as possible" does it sound/feel any better? Maslow's hierarchy of needs and all that.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I am guessing he is not capable. The world is crazy now and has been since 2020. By crazy, I mean more than usual. Young adults are getting it the worst. And this young adult you are describing has autism. Tonight, I watched my sweet son stare out the window, with tears running down his face. Then finally he tells me he will never have children because having autism is miserable and he doesn’t fit in and he is lonely.

I am sorry that is sad.  This young man isn’t sad.  He is more arrogant and cocky….doesn’t listen to any suggestions 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

If you reword it as "keep him as safe as possible" does it sound/feel any better? Maslow's hierarchy of needs and all that.

Agree. How does that look in practical terms?  You might not know since you don’t live in this country, but how do we get him help? 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Scarlett

[Rosie_0801]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I am sorry that is sad.  This young man isn’t sad.  He is more arrogant and cocky….doesn’t listen to any suggestions 

My person can be a bit that way too, and it is nothing more than a desperate attempt not to feel like utter scum. It's a facade and a very thin one.

Not fun to watch, that's for sure.

[Lecka]

It’s very complicated.

 

And, some behavior is just not possible to live with even if it’s not “on purpose” or could be resolved by the person.  
 

He probably wasn’t in the psychiatric hospital long enough to have a lot of effect or really know how to help him to stabilize longer term (if it’s possible).  It’s actually not that great.  But then if people don’t want more treatment than that, they don’t have to have it.  But they may be too impaired by mental illness to make a good choice to continue treatment.  It’s a huge Catch-22.  
 

It’s hard to know what is going on because it could be so many things.  
 

I don’t think whether he could be better or not is the right question, I think the right question is what action to take.  I don’t think that’s the deciding factor to what action to take.

 

I think it seems like it would be, but I don’t think it is.  
 

I think something more like — requiring treatment to keep living there, might be something to try.  
 

But he could be someone who refused treatment while not being “bad on purpose” where it would be “easy” to give him a consequence.  It could be done for the safety of other people or standards of not allowing drug use or illegal activity.  
 

In other words, I think he could really be deserving in many ways, but it could still not be okay to use illegal drugs on the premises.  

 

I think maybe the title of the property is in someone’s name, unless it’s all jointly held.  The mother might need to leave, too, if she wants to let him live with her.  It might be worth considering.  Maybe someone could rent her portion for a while or they could just hold it for her down the road.  

[Rosie_0801]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Agree. How does that look in practical terms?  You might not know since you don’t e in this country, but how do we get him help? 

Please go and learn more about shame. (I like this vid, but he has more.) You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped (I know you know that already) and they can't want to be helped if they don't feel like they deserve it. When they get like this the thinking can be dreadfully distorted. My person probably thinks I hate them at the moment, but they're too full of shame to cope with me telling them I don't. And I don't. Under the mess, they really are adorable.

Basically all *you* can do is learn the disability mum mindset of understanding life is hard, that small things can be Really Big and celebrating any healthy thing they do.

 

[Melissa in Australia]

Sometimes might look from the outside that the mum Is enabling  when the reality is she is trying to keep him alive

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

But he could be someone who refused treatment while not being “bad on purpose”

Yeah. Sometimes best practice as far as the medical community is concerned is full on abusive from the perspective of autistic clients.

When someone is put in a position where they have to damage themselves further to prove they are "being good" and are therefore "deserving," what are they supposed to do? What kind of rewards are there for that? None. You just break more and hate more and get more nasty reports written about you.

I was talking to a friend yesterday who was telling me about the trouble she's getting for not obeying the big boss medical people. She said she'd be happy to, if only they made sense, but they keep demanding she do things that aren't possible and they will not tell her how to make them possible.

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, Lecka said:

It’s very complicated.

 

And, some behavior is just not possible to live with even if it’s not “on purpose” or could be resolved by the person.  
 

He probably wasn’t in the psychiatric hospital long enough to have a lot of effect or really know how to help him to stabilize longer term (if it’s possible).  It’s actually not that great.  But then if people don’t want more treatment than that, they don’t have to have it.  But they may be too impaired by mental illness to make a good choice to continue treatment.  It’s a huge Catch-22.  
 

It’s hard to know what is going on because it could be so many things.  
 

I don’t think whether he could be better or not is the right question, I think the right question is what action to take.  I don’t think that’s the deciding factor to what action to take.

 

I think it seems like it would be, but I don’t think it is.  
 

I think something more like — requiring treatment to keep living there, might be something to try.  
 

But he could be someone who refused treatment while not being “bad on purpose” where it would be “easy” to give him a consequence.  It could be done for the safety of other people or standards of not allowing drug use or illegal activity.  
 

In other words, I think he could really be deserving in many ways, but it could still not be okay to use illegal drugs on the premises.  

 

I think maybe the title of the property is in someone’s name, unless it’s all jointly held.  The mother might need to leave, too, if she wants to let him live with her.  It might be worth considering.  Maybe someone could rent her portion for a while or they could just hold it for her down the road.  

No one needs to rent her portion.  All will go on with out her there.  It is a 100% paid for compound.she did just get a large sm of cash in her divorce settlement.  She could easily buy her own place so she could continue to house her son,

[Bootsie]

Unfortunately, the choices of the parents I have known in such situations have been fairly limited.  Often it has boiled down to having the person live with them, encourage good choices, be supportive and loving, but know that they can't make the adult child seek treatment or make different choices or telling the person that they cannot live with them or have any assistance provided to them unless there is evidence of better choices being made.  The later MAY result in the person leaving and hitting rock bottom and then seeking help.  Even if the family thinks that he can't help himself or take care of himself, unless legal standards are met, they generally can't make decisions for him that he must enter treatment, be hospitalized, live at a certain place, etc.  As far as the mother picking him up after 72 hours and driving him right back to her home, her alternative was probably refusing to pick him up and his being released to go on the street somewhere.  I have known parents who keep being told "Can't you see your adult child is troubled; he needs help; he needs to be in rehab; he needs to be on medication; you need to do something..." when in reality they are worried sick and wish that there was something they could do.  

[iamonlyone]

Thanks for the video link, Rosie, that was really interesting and helpful, whether someone is autistic or not.

Edited August 21, 2023 by iamonlyone

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, iamonlyone said:

Thanks for the video link, Rosie, that was really interesting and helpful, whether someone is autistic or not.

Yes thank you Rosie.  I will watch it again tomorrow when my brain is working.,

[KSera]

52 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Of course you want to know. But you can't know, so I recommend those videos as another perspective to chew over. When a person has disintegrated into that much of a mess, shame is so huge that can't and won't merge into an indistinguishable mess.

From the outside it looks like if they only got off their butt and did this one sensible thing or stopped doing this one stupid thing, they'd be fine, but from the inside they are not one single thing, but chain reactions that go on and on into all sorts of seemingly unrelated places.

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

If you reword it as "keep him as safe as possible" does it sound/feel any better? Maslow's hierarchy of needs and all that.

 

Really wishing in this thread we could like and thank Rosie’s posts. People often think that if you would just stop helping someone who’s struggling, they will magically be able to do things they are struggling to do. It often doesn’t work that way, and triply so for those on the spectrum. 
 

[KidsHappen]

Yes, often the only choice is not if you will "enable" them or not but are you willing to leave them homeless and hungry or are you going to keep them off the streets and fed. A lot of people think it is as simple as getting them in rehab and I can tell you that even with really good insurance that is almost impossible to do. Sometimes if people are really lucky they can get court ordered services that they can't access otherwise. But our society does not really have a lot of good options for helping people who can not help themselves.

Drug addiction is a disease just like diabetes. You can no more expect him to pull himself together and cure his drug addiction than you can for him to pull himself together and cure his diabetes. Sure there are things he could be doing to help both but he is probably a long way from being able to do those things. Being homeless and hungry isn't going to help. Providing a home and food is not "enabling". As long as he is not endangering anyone else or stealing from his home then those seem like reasonable things to supply. Of course if the mother is living with someone else then that complicates matters.

It sounds like he needs a social worker to help him avail himself of the medical and drug addiction services he needs, maybe get him into a residential program. I am not really sure how he would go about doing that though.

[PeterPan]

It's harder to watch with someone on the spectrum because you know they have deficits/challenges affecting their ability to be self aware, organize, etc. I will just say quietly that in our family the way this went down was the person who was enabling had to decide they were willing to let the loved one die. Like go on the streets, go homeless, go hungry, die, and that they would no longer enable. The loved one had gone through every single rehab in their largish city multiple times, so many times no rehab in the city would take the loved one. 

Once the enabler stopped enabling, it enabled the loved one to hit rock bottom, at which point they moved, made a fresh start, and did what they knew they had to do to get completely sober and clean.

So it might not be that a good outcome with this looks anything like what they seem to be hoping. Maybe your relative will be a quick learner and do rehab and connect with supports and get on track but maybe not. They might be a very slow learner, sigh. What I was trying to think about is whether there was some autism-specific intervention that could be done to help the process, but I'm not sure there is. Sure they could work on self-awareness, etc. but I suspect good programs already include some of that.

If she owns that van thing, she might want to think hard about whether he gets the keys if he leaves. In our loved one's case anything they were given converted to something else, sigh. 

 

[Innisfree]

How old is this young man? What’s his educational background? Has he ever functioned as an independent adult? 

You know that he has autism and Tourette’s. Those can have profound consequences for his ability to function. Has he ever had a neuropsychological evaluation? Was he assigned a level of autism: 1, 2, or 3? Was he given targeted therapies as a child, to help him develop coping strategies? 

Obviously it’s a bit late to start thinking about therapy now, but I ask those questions because it’s essential to recognize that he started life with the deck stacked against him. If he wasn’t given help and tools to improve his functioning, it’s hardly fair to blame him for his situation now. Even with consistent support throughout childhood, with ABA and occupational therapy and everything you can find to support his needs, he still might not be able to function independently, and expecting him to do so might never have been realistic.

None of this is a matter of intelligence or education, by the way. People who are on the spectrum are often underemployed, often unemployed, even when they’re highly intelligent and well educated.

Being able to function in a world when social interactions and sensory input overwhelm you is hard. Lots of people self-medicate. That may be a strategy that harms them more than it helps, but it might have started because their legitimate needs weren’t being met, and they were trying to survive in each moment the best way they had available. Suicide rates are high for people with ASD; there are reasons for that. This young man has reached that degree of misery.

I know his behavior is disruptive to his family. I’m not suggesting that the situation doesn’t need to change, but I do think it’s important to start by acknowledging that he needs extra support, and may have always needed more than he got. I don’t want to blame his parents, either, especially without knowing the situation. Getting the right help can be difficult to impossible, and needs can change as people grow up and face different challenges.

If he were in my orbit, I’d want to know the answers to the questions I started with. I’d want to let him know that his problems are likely not his fault, at least not in their origins. Ideally, I’d want to see what needs weren’t addressed sufficiently in the past, and try to address them now. That might mean a neuropsych evaluation, continuing psychiatric treatment including medication (which can take a lot of time to get right), and talk therapy with someone who understands the challenges he faces.  He might need occupational therapy for sensory issues. AA and group therapy might be the wrong approach for someone who struggles with social interactions; groups of people might simply add more stress.

Mostly, I’d start with compassion. He’ll need a lot of support to turn things around, and it’ll take time.

[Ginevra]

I think for your last paragraph, it amounts to the same thing. Outsiders cannot tell; insiders probably also can’t. In my non-scientific opinion, there is huge overlap in “can’t” and “won’t”. The person is damaged and a lot of anti-social behavior is both a cause and a result of that damage. It perpetuates itself until “something” happens; ie, death or incarceration. Or, in some cases, perhaps the person heals some and gets better. But I wouldn’t bet much money on that outcome. 
 

I think there are a lot of people functionally on the spectrum, who are subsidized by their parents or spouses and they get by like that. 

[Ottakee]

7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Sometimes might look from the outside that the mum Is enabling  when the reality is she is trying to keep him alive

YES.   I al doing this with a family member right now and have been for years and years.   I make sure the housing and food and medical care is covered.    Far from ideal but they are not homeless or in danger on the streets.

[historically accurate]

21 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

YES.   I al doing this with a family member right now and have been for years and years.   I make sure the housing and food and medical care is covered.    Far from ideal but they are not homeless or in danger on the streets.

Agree. I have a person in my life like this as well.

Edited August 21, 2023 by historically accurate

[pinball]

What drugs is he using?

You mentioned AA which is usually focused on alcohol addiction but encompasses any/all addiction.

If he has no money, and is addicted, he will probably start doing things (possibly illegal) to get money to feed his addiction. Or he will run with a crowd where he can get what he needs from other people.

It doesn’t sound like he is caring for or managing his diabetes which is certainly destroying his body. Does he have any sores that won’t heal? Infections? Has he had episodes of DKA? 
 

The entire family, including you, sounds like they/you need support and education for dealing with mental illness and addiction. Your post (which I won’t quote since you asked not to) is riddled with tells that say to me you have a very out-of-date understanding of these issues.

 

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, pinball said:

What drugs is he using?

You mentioned AA which is usually focused on alcohol addiction but encompasses any/all addiction.

If he has no money, and is addicted, he will probably start doing things (possibly illegal) to get money to feed his addiction. Or he will run with a crowd where he can get what he needs from other people.

It doesn’t sound like he is caring for or managing his diabetes which is certainly destroying his body. Does he have any sores that won’t heal? Infections? Has he had episodes of DKA? 
 

The entire family, including you, sounds like they/you need support and education for dealing with mental illness and addiction. Your post (which I won’t quote since you asked not to) is riddled with tells that say to me you have a very out-of-date understanding of these issues.

 

I heard some of the instructions from the psych ward third hand so I don’t know what all they told him.  The point is they had a plan for him and he hasn’t done one thing.

I do know that in CA when he and his cousin almost died a passerby gave them Narccan. 
 

Family friend who drove him to the hospital told them they would all be shocked by the details of what all he had been up to. While living on multi family property.  So regardless of what I know or don’t know about any particular thing he can’t keep living there.  Ideally he needs to put on disability with his mother in charge of the money so she could at least pay his rent for him. If he had a place to live she could subsidize him in order to make sure he eats. And if she lived close enough she might could help him manage his diabetes in order to stay alive.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Ottakee said:

YES.   I al doing this with a family member right now and have been for years and years.   I make sure the housing and food and medical care is covered.    Far from ideal but they are not homeless or in danger on the streets.

When you say you make sure they are covered, do you mean you are paying it yourself?  Or have you found programs etc?

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, KSera said:

Really wishing in this thread we could like and thank Rosie’s posts. People often think that if you would just stop helping someone who’s struggling, they will magically be able to do things they are struggling to do. It often doesn’t work that way, and triply so for those on the spectrum. 
 

I am definitely seeing this.

When he first came to AR his mom rented a camp spot and he lived in his van there. But it was summer.  Then he met some man at a bar and rented a room from him but of course that did not  last long.  And by that point it was freezing cold and SIL and MIL could not bare to see him cold (and I understand that and so does the rest of the family) this how it came to be he is living in a camper and sleeping all day and not taking care of himself.  And the rest of the residents have some fear because they know he isn’t in his right mind and they do understand how addiction works and that he is likely to start stealing from them or worse.  
 

So I guess the question is what path is there to get him off of the property and keep him alive and also not run my SIL into the ground financially and emotionally. 

[Ottakee]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

When you say you make sure they are covered, do you mean you are paying it yourself?  Or have you found programs etc?

Individual is on disability.  I pay for things out of that money as I am the payee.

Often with a court order for treatment they can help with housing, etc

[City Mouse]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:
 

So I guess the question is what path is there to get him off of the property and keep him alive and also not run my SIL into the ground financially and emotionally. 

It all comes back to boundaries. SIL is going to have to decide where her boundaries are. Other family members can’t do that for her. Maybe a therapist could help her. I don’t really know about that. 
 

[Longtime Lurker]

10 hours ago, Janeway said:

I am guessing he is not capable. The world is crazy now and has been since 2020. By crazy, I mean more than usual. Young adults are getting it the worst. And this young adult you are describing has autism. Tonight, I watched my sweet young adult son stare out the window, with tears running down his face. Then finally he tells me he will never have children because having autism is miserable and he doesn’t fit in and he is lonely.

I am so sorry that your son is struggling with these feelings. This is when I am reminded that there is a silver lining to the severity of my son's autism (and cognitive impairment); he does not realize that he is missing anything.

9 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Unfortunately, the choices of the parents I have known in such situations have been fairly limited.  Often it has boiled down to having the person live with them, encourage good choices, be supportive and loving, but know that they can't make the adult child seek treatment or make different choices or telling the person that they cannot live with them or have any assistance provided to them unless there is evidence of better choices being made.  The later MAY result in the person leaving and hitting rock bottom and then seeking help.  Even if the family thinks that he can't help himself or take care of himself, unless legal standards are met, they generally can't make decisions for him that he must enter treatment, be hospitalized, live at a certain place, etc.  As far as the mother picking him up after 72 hours and driving him right back to her home, her alternative was probably refusing to pick him up and his being released to go on the street somewhere.  I have known parents who keep being told "Can't you see your adult child is troubled; he needs help; he needs to be in rehab; he needs to be on medication; you need to do something..." when in reality they are worried sick and wish that there was something they could do.  

Again, this almost makes me thankful for the degree of DS's impairment. We have had so many struggles (aggressive behaviors, etc.) but he will not end up homeless.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, City Mouse said:

It all comes back to boundaries. SIL is going to have to decide where her boundaries are. Other family members can’t do that for her. Maybe a therapist could help her. I don’t really know about that. 
 

Dh has been saying SIL needs to leave and her son will follow. It might come down to that. 

[Scarlett]

Also his Tourettes’s seems to be well managed. I have never seen evidence of it. 
 

He is socially awkward and comes across as a blow hard but I have seen him be really sweet too. On his drive from CA to AR a truck driver gave him a Pit Bull pup…and he really loves that dog but doesn’t take any better care of the dog than he does himself.  That is one more issue… a pit bull in the property. 

[SHP]

12 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well, we really want to know if he can’t help himself or care for himself. It greatly affects how we feel and how we treat him and the advise we give SIL.  

I am in a bit of a rush so may have missed details in your OP. I will try to reread in a few hours and come back.

What Rosie said plus it is always ideal to assume someone is doing their best with what they have. Person may need outside help to build skills. Person may help getting needed therapy. Getting therapy and treatment for mental health can be incredibly difficult. Getting help for an autistic adult can be impossible. I would be happy to detail the steps I have taken in DM. I still get nothing, but it would give insight of how tedious and hellish the process can be.

As for AA, there was someone in another thread that posted about a treatment. It's a pill. AA may be the wrong approach.

As for treating diabetes. If a person is at a point with their mental illness where they cannot accomplish other basic self care tasks, well diabetes I another thing on top. 

I have a lot more but I have to run. 

Mostly hugs. This person may need a level of care that is below inpatient and beyond the family which in most states means they are absolutely screwed. 

[SHP]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Also his Tourettes’s seems to be well managed. I have never seen evidence of it. 
 

 

Real quick. I have a tick disorder that is semi managed with medication (and boy am I glad there is a medication that helps!) Here is the thing, most people have no clue. None. My own parents claim I do not have it. Why? Because of how it manifests. I tense up to "hold it in" around people which makes all life things harder btw. The release is when I am safe or alone. My husband is the only person who knows the full extent of it. My kids think I cuss a lot. Most people think what are verbal manifestations are a choice. It's not and that has been, and continues to be a huge problem when relating to humans who do not know me and/or are unable to look past it.

For me medication was a HUGE help with the cursing manifestation. It wasn't a cure by any stretch but most of my ticks are now in the evening when tired when it is just myself and my husband.

[dsmith]

My son is on the spectrum and has a tic disorder. I don't know where he would be if he wasn't medicated since the age of 8, but if he wasn't and could get out on his own, I would not be surprised if drugs or alcohol became an issue. Thankfully the meds help him a lot. He is not able to function independently, and many people would be surprised by this. He has breakthrough tics in times of high stress, and most people would not know he is on the spectrum at all, but the stress of dealing with people in everyday life is exhausting and stressful for him, so he avoids most interactions except for limited online interactions. Thankfully he has outgrown most of his sensory issues or they are helped with medications, but those alone would have been cause for self-medicating as an adult if they were still an issue. He is unable to hold a job outside of our business. If he had been suffering from drug addiction, went through treatment and was given instructions for afterwards, he would fail. AA or group therapy would be beyond difficult. He would need one on one continuous treatment. I don't know what this person's childhood was like, what therapies he received, medications he was on, etc. but like many people on the spectrum, it sounds like functioning independently is beyond him. It's difficult to find programs for adults on the spectrum, but perhaps there are some in the area? Maybe a group home for those struggling with drug addiction/mental illness, etc.? 

[ktgrok]

13 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

If you reword it as "keep him as safe as possible" does it sound/feel any better? Maslow's hierarchy of needs and all that.

This - food and shelter should not be seen as "enabling" in my opinion, but the absolute basics for survival. This person has already been homeless and lived on the streets, so it isn't as if kicking him out means he will figure out how to take care of himself and be gainfully employed and able to afford housing. 

13 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

My person can be a bit that way too, and it is nothing more than a desperate attempt not to feel like utter scum. It's a facade and a very thin one.

Not fun to watch, that's for sure.

This. 

[Katy]

He isn’t capable. It isn’t enabling when you have a disability like that. Invisible disability is still disability. Any many people with autism sound rude and condescending because of their flat affect tone of voice, but that’s literally a symptom of autism, not a symptom of being a jerk. 

This is one time I’d encourage a lot of patience and compassion. If he can’t properly care for the dog the dog needs to go. Or he needs help caring for the dog. There are autism support dogs, but they’re expensive and still need proper care. 

[Ottakee]

They need to call their local community mental health for services and support.

[Lecka]

This is an aside but we know two people in the heartbreaking position of not being allowed to have their adult kids at their house because they have grandchildren and they aren’t allowed to have the adult kids unless they are meeting requirements from the court system.  And if they don’t do it the grandkids can be taken away to go into foster care.  
 

It can be like that here.  It’s really sad.  Because the adult kids could need help, too!

 

This colors a lot of my opinions because here it’s like — there are consequences to helping someone if you have children in the home.

 

I personally am likely to have a special needs child living with us for a long time so that’s our situation.  

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

They need to call their local community mental health for services and support.

What is that?  I have no idea if that even exists where they are.  
 

I wonder where we would start to get him declared disabled because of all of his ailments and the history of homelessness and addiction and inability to keep a job.  

[Ottakee]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

What is that?  I have no idea if that even exists where they are.  
 

I wonder where we would start to get him declared disabled because of all of his ailments and the history of homelessness and addiction and inability to keep a job.  

They need to apply for disability through  Social Security.   
 

the mental health stuff is often county based and they could call the department of health and human services or whatever it is called in their areas.   If they don’t know they could try 211 for help in locating services.

[Katy]

45 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

They need to apply for disability through  Social Security.   
 

the mental health stuff is often county based and they could call the department of health and human services or whatever it is called in their areas.   If they don’t know they could try 211 for help in locating services.

This, though they should know that disability claims are automatically denied at a young age unless the person is literally in the hospital in a coma. They should know to expect that and to just keep filing the paperwork to appeal. When they see a judge (after the 3rd or 4th appeal), the judge will be the first person to take a look at his case for real. 

[Pawz4me]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

This, though they should know that disability claims are automatically denied at a young age unless the person is literally in the hospital in a coma. They should know to expect that and to just keep filing the paperwork to appeal. When they see a judge (after the 3rd or 4th appeal), the judge will be the first person to take a look at his case for real. 

Or if they have a diagnosis that is one of the compassionate allowances. Those get automatic approval.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I wonder where we would start to get him declared disabled because of all of his ailments and the history of homelessness and addiction and inability to keep a job.  

Where we live, a history of homelessness and addiction would actually increase the supports available. Many of our housing supports, for example, require someone to be homeless in order to receive help. If you start searching their county name and “housing” or “mental health” or “addiction” you should get to some sites with lists of resources. Is his autism documented? Does he have health insurance coverage?

[Wheres Toto]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I am definitely seeing this.

When he first came to AR his mom rented a camp spot and he lived in his van there. But it was summer.  Then he met some man at a bar and rented a room from him but of course that did not  last long.  And by that point it was freezing cold and SIL and MIL could not bare to see him cold (and I understand that and so does the rest of the family) this how it came to be he is living in a camper and sleeping all day and not taking care of himself.  And the rest of the residents have some fear because they know he isn’t in his right mind and they do understand how addiction works and that he is likely to start stealing from them or worse.  
 

So I guess the question is what path is there to get him off of the property and keep him alive and also not run my SIL into the ground financially and emotionally. 

Who has made the decision that he needs to leave?    

Sounds like he's not causing trouble for anyone but himself and maybe his mother, but people are anticipating that he will cause trouble so want to kick him out preemptively?  

[KSera]

I just went back and read the OP again, and I just wanted to say that the “job of sorts“ described sounds like an appropriate amount of work for someone on the spectrum, particularly one who’s currently struggling with mental health. 

[PronghornD]

52 minutes ago, Katy said:

This, though they should know that disability claims are automatically denied at a young age unless the person is literally in the hospital in a coma. They should know to expect that and to just keep filing the paperwork to appeal. When they see a judge (after the 3rd or 4th appeal), the judge will be the first person to take a look at his case for real. 

My young autistic nephew got approval for disability on the second try. And his autism was not particularly extreme.

[QueenCat]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I heard some of the instructions from the psych ward third hand so I don’t know what all they told him.  The point is they had a plan for him and he hasn’t done one thing.

 

Was he a part of the decision-making in the plan? Or did others create the plan and tell him he needed to do it, without input? That makes a huge difference in compliance and participation.