How little could you make and still be ok?

[Tap]

I said 3,000 but that is because my only debt, is my mortgage and that is very low. When I divorced my xh, I kept more of the value of the house, he kept more retirement. I make less than he did, so I needed to have less money going out each month. Thank goodness I did, with prices being sooo high right now on everything. I have the financial responsibility of my niece, but she will never go to college. She doesn't cost half as much to raise as my older kids did (sports, private schools, nice clothes due to private schools, cars, medical expenses, college etc).  

If I had to start over after the divorce, furnish a house, and pay Covid house prices, had a car payment or two (for teen), and if I had one of my older kids at home, I would not be able to make it on that. It would probably be closer to $5,000.

It is so situational, that this number really won't mean anything. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Tap

[Scarlett]

It seems to me what people consider necessities to just get by is varying widely.  In a time of emergency I would not consider college to be a necessity.  As far as clothing, since I don’t have growing children I would not need to buy clothes at all.  
 

I counted mortgage, utilities, insurance, car payment, cell phone bill, food and fuel.  
 

My numbers were 2600/550.  

Edited December 13, 2022 by Scarlett

[Farrar]

But are we supposed to be answering as if it were an emergency or just as if we cut luxuries? I mean, if it were an emergency, then I'd sell my house. I mean, I sure as heck wouldn't want to do it right now with the market having dropped, but if it was a true right now emergency then I'd have to and it would still have a ton of equity. I could take the equity to deal with the emergency. Or I could take the equity and buy a home way out in the middle of nowhere and have no rent or mortgage be miserable there, but I could live.

Honestly, we'd keep paying for college unless something was absurdly dire. We might even cash out the house for it if we absolutely had to, though that probably wouldn't make sense financially in most situations. The thing about the cost of college is that it's based partially on our income when kid enrolled. So if we suffered catastrophe, then we could appeal and probably get at least somewhat more aid. 

 

[Condessa]

8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I know there’s no comparison dollar for dollar but that’s amazing for me. We live in a lower COL state for Aus and you would struggle to rent a family home for that let alone any extra costs.

Renting a comparable home to ours in this area would cost around 175% to 200% of our mortgage costs per month.  Renting costs more than buying here, and we bought when home values were much lower (3 years ago, they’ve gone up by 50% since then) and then were able to refinance for even better interest rates.  Which is why we can never, ever move.

[madteaparty]

32 minutes ago, Farrar said:

 

Honestly, we'd keep paying for college unless something was absurdly dire. We might even cash out the house for it if we absolutely had to, though that probably wouldn't make sense financially in most situations. The thing about the cost of college is that it's based partially on our income when kid enrolled. So if we suffered catastrophe, then we could appeal and probably get at least somewhat more aid. 

 

Same, short of something like death we will pay for this freaking college. Actually death wouldn’t be a bad scenario as life insurance would kick in. 🤷‍♀️

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

It seems to me what people consider necessities to just get by is varying widely.  In a time of emergency I would not consider college to be a necessity.  As far as clothing, since I don’t have growing children I would not need to buy clothes at all.  
 

I counted mortgage, utilities, insurance, car payment, cell phone bill, food and fuel.  
 

My numbers were 2600/550.  

Well, I think this is a fuzzy line anyway unless/until you must live it. I didn’t include college costs in mine because if we were really scraping by, we would have to explore a different strategy for post-high school, whether that would be free community college, Pell grant, GI bill or pursuing a trade. However, so long as that’s not a contraint I have to abide, I’m paying for college. 
 

Food is similar, and clothing, and entertainment and everything. I have lived close to the bone in my life and I currently live with a good cushion of breathing room. My figure is not the barest of bare bones because I would not choose to live that way unless I was out of options. But my figure is also assuming I would not pay for college or buy the nicest food or take bus trips to Broadway if we were just scraping by. 

If I were advising a young person, I would not present them with the barest bare bones idea for what it takes to live; not as any sort of goal anyway. It takes a specific set of skills and temperament to live super frugally long-term and if you set the standard so low, it’s going to get old rather quickly. 

[catz]

If your income dropped drastically, you also might be in a position to negotiate with a financial aid office in terms of paying for college.  It's fine if that isn't someone's priority, but getting both these kids through college is extremely high priority for us.  We found a highly affordable but still fabulous path for kid #1 to allow us plenty of padding.  Crossing fingers for the senior, who is a very different kid.

Both DH and I are first gen college students.  That has afforded us many privleges.  Including the ability to get our kids through college debt free.  I had 2 grandmothers that weren't educated past the 8th grade.  Both of us has first hand family history that has demonstrated what pursuing education can do for future options.  

I still haven't answered and I won't.  I wouldn't even know where to start.  I will say our entertainment, travel, and eating out budget is quite down since covid.  

Edited December 13, 2022 by catz

[SKL]

So much changes if you actually do go low income.  So many things would be subsidized, income taxes would disappear, and one might have more time to do things one now pays others to do.

What is the purpose of this poll?  I think it is going to be misleading as it does not correct for underlying differences that cause costs to go up or down.

As for college ... I am hoping that my kids will attend state universities that won't suck up every last dollar of my retirement funds.  If we went low income, hopefully they could get enough need-based aid to continue.  But if that didn't happen, at least they'd have the credits they had earned, and they could go back and finish at some future time.  Meanwhile, they could find some way to help cover/defray costs and pursue independent study.

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

But are we supposed to be answering as if it were an emergency or just as if we cut luxuries? I mean, if it were an emergency, then I'd sell my house. I mean, I sure as heck wouldn't want to do it right now with the market having dropped, but if it was a true right now emergency then I'd have to and it would still have a ton of equity. I could take the equity to deal with the emergency. Or I could take the equity and buy a home way out in the middle of nowhere and have no rent or mortgage be miserable there, but I could live.

Honestly, we'd keep paying for college unless something was absurdly dire. We might even cash out the house for it if we absolutely had to, though that probably wouldn't make sense financially in most situations. The thing about the cost of college is that it's based partially on our income when kid enrolled. So if we suffered catastrophe, then we could appeal and probably get at least somewhat more aid. 

 

 

My thought was bare bones as in cutting luxuries but not selling your house and moving in with in laws. Like what is your bare bones necessity of a budget. That is all I was thinking, I am not dwelling in enough other people's heads though lol. I wasn't thinking that we all become homeless or forsaken, we keep our homes but have to cut out the fluff. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Arcadia]

29 minutes ago, SKL said:

 

As for college ... I am hoping that my kids will attend state universities that won't suck up every last dollar of my retirement funds.  If we went low income, hopefully they could get enough need-based aid to continue.

 

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Well, I think this is a fuzzy line anyway unless/until you must live it. I didn’t include college costs in mine because if we were really scraping by, we would have to explore a different strategy for post-high school, whether that would be free community college, Pell grant, GI bill or pursuing a trade. However, so long as that’s not a contraint I have to abide, I’m paying for college. 

 

1 hour ago, madteaparty said:

Same, short of something like death we will pay for this freaking college. Actually death wouldn’t be a bad scenario as life insurance would kick in. 🤷‍♀️

 

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

The thing about the cost of college is that it's based partially on our income when kid enrolled. So if we suffered catastrophe, then we could appeal and probably get at least somewhat more aid. 

 

When my husband’s colleague was retrenched years ago while his daughter was in Stanford, he immediately went to the financial aid department and showed them the official letter from his employer (13 miles drive). Financial aid, work study and what have you enabled her to continue her studies and graduate from Stanford. His wife worked but her income before tax was around $50k. 

[Soror]

We're on a different starting point here. There isn't room to pay for college in my regular budget. 

Last year dh made more than he ever had and ds still qualifies for a pell grant, not a large one but still some. So, I can't wrap my brain around paying for college as a necessity. I know that all the kids that have their college and lots of other things paid for will be ahead of my kids but it is what it is. I'm not selling my house or cashing out retirement or taking loans to pay for college. 

Now, this year dh's pay has decreased dramatically. Last year's pay was inflated due to copious OT that can not be sustained for a multitude of reasons. It was great to just have one year of higher income so we could build back a cushion and knock some items off of our list. We were able to replace a 17 yr old vehicle, replace several old appliances, largely cash flow a long planned building project (we're doing labor ourselves to keep costs down but have ended up with a small loan - our first debt in a decade), and take a big family vaca on a budget.

This year it is back to the grind and there isn't much extra room. That's the thing with cutting back as others have mentioned- short term and long term are different matters. Things would be tight now if we had house and/or car payments but we don't so we do ok. We don't just have to stick to rice and beans. Our kids can do some cheaper EC's. And our older ones fund a lot of their own things so they can do more than we could otherwise afford. We had several years of lower income and it gets rougher and rougher as it goes. If you have higher income it is easier to do with less. You are likely to have the funds to buy nicer items that will last longer or fund items that will cost less to maintain and use. 

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

19 minutes ago, Soror said:

We're on a different starting point here. There isn't room to pay for college in my regular budget. 

Last year dh made more than he ever had and ds still qualifies for a pell grant, not a large one but still some. So, I can't wrap my brain around paying for college as a necessity. I know that all the kids that have their college and lots of other things paid for will be ahead of my kids but it is what it is. I'm not selling my house or cashing out retirement or taking loans to pay for college. 

Now, this year dh's pay has decreased dramatically. Last year's pay was inflated due to copious OT that can not be sustained for a multitude of reasons. It was great to just have one year of higher income so we could build back a cushion and knock some items off of our list. We were able to replace a 17 yr old vehicle, replace several old appliances, largely cash flow a long planned building project (we're doing labor ourselves to keep costs down but have ended up with a small loan - our first debt in a decade), and take a big family vaca on a budget.

This year it is back to the grind and there isn't much extra room. That's the thing with cutting back as others have mentioned- short term and long term are different matters. Things would be tight now if we had house and/or car payments but we don't so we do ok. We don't just have to stick to rice and beans. Our kids can do some cheaper EC's. And our older ones fund a lot of their own things so they can do more than we could otherwise afford. We had several years of lower income and it gets rougher and rougher as it goes. If you have higher income it is easier to do with less. You are likely to have the funds to buy nicer items that will last longer or fund items that will cost less to maintain and use. 

 

 

 

We won't be able to do this either, we don't have sufficient retirement savings at all and DH will be 57 when youngest graduates high school. There is no way we can pour 50k a year into school. He will go to a state school unless he gets a scholarship somewhere else that puts his cost at about the same. We will help him as much as we can but it may be that he goes to the university 40 minutes away and lives at home? That is a realistic option. 

 

ETA - I'm not being judge mental on those who consider that a necessity though. It really depends on income. If I made 400,000 a year and had sufficient retirement and then sure. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Arcadia]

59 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

ETA - I'm not being judge mental on those who consider that a necessity though. It really depends on income. If I made 400,000 a year and had sufficient retirement and then sure. 

I know families who pay around $40k for state universities (UCs not within commute distance) and they earn around $200k annual. However they have 529 plans and they either have an only child or a large age gap between two children such that they won’t have two in college concurrently. A friend told me her 529 plan would be more than adequate for her son’s UC costs for four years since she was planning on funding four years of private colleges on the east coast that her son were keen on but didn’t get accepted.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Arcadia
typo

[Farrar]

Yeah, "paying for college" can mean paying the $1000 a year gap between your state grant and the total cost for a cheaper state school or a community college or paying $80k sticker price for a prestigious private university. Seriously, I would suggest people not assume they know what "paying for college" means. We are not paying even now some of the costs people have tossed out as their idea of what "college" costs.

There's also a big cost for a kid stopping paying midway through. That cost is time and more money and opportunity. So yes, we made a choice with our kid to pay a bit more for a college (though, let me point out that we did not have an in state option at all here as our not-a-state does not have a serious public university system) that is a luxury in a sense. But also, now that the choice is made and the whole thing started, his best chance of finishing without messing up financial aid and everything else is to finish where he is. And it's worth paying more to not lose those credits or have to start over. Transferring can be a huge pain and I've seen it go very wrong. If we had to make a decision from scratch with a new financial reality, then kid would have been forced to take a different college. And that would have been fine - the cheapest option was probably his third choice of the schools he applied to. It would have been fine. But he can't switch out now to save that money. It's too late.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I started this thread just out of curiosity. I really, really need to find a way to trim our budget to save for retirement and was curious and also hoping people would chime in with what they consider necessary. I was curious what other people's bare bones looked liked. Sometimes seeing that plenty of others think they could live on 4k a month makes me think maybe it could be done? It feels impossible rn though. 

I wasn't thinking through ALL the variables y'all have thrown at me, but I knew there would be variables, for sure.

I'm just having a hard time finding ways to trim ours and I feel like groceries are so.dang.high. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Farrar]

The whole college thing also gets to something that I find is a really basic divide between different parents. And it's not always along income levels. When I went to college, my parents were well below the poverty line. They had very little. My mother relied on support from her parents as she was digging out of being in school and being a single mom and not having a full time job (not to mention having chosen to go into the ministry - not a high paying line of work). My father had been out of work for almost two years and was living with a friend who was basically supporting him in order to have a permanent couch surfing poker buddy at his beck and call. No one ever questioned that they would do everything they could to support me attending and succeeding in college. 

I meet parents now sometimes who are incredibly affluent. Who own their homes, who take trips abroad, who don't know what it means to go to the grocery store and have your debit card declined and have to leave without food - something I routinely experienced as a teen. But who say the kids are on their own. They'll house and feed them as needed, but they're not paying for college as that's a step too far. The kids can take out their own loans. Or not. Whatever. It's on them. 

And, of course, everything in between.

But I find it personally dismaying. I cannot imagine doing that to my own kids. I cannot imagine my parents having done it to me. It would have been financially devastating. I would likely still be in poverty. If I didn't already have a kid in college and we had to start anew with him, I would STILL find a way to support him attending college. Likely it would be community college and transfer, but to do that, we'd have needed to buy him a car and insurance, so it wouldn't have been free, even if the CC could have been covered by DCTAG. I might literally have moved two years before the end of high school to give him in state options. Or maybe I'd have kept us here and gotten him psyched for schools that could have been covered with the $10k DCTAG plus a tiny bit more and then figured out how to stack scholarships. But it's just that important to me that my kids have the option of education.

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

I'm just having a hard time finding ways to trim ours and I feel like groceries are so.dang.high. It is like 50% of our budget, I'm not kidding. 

You have food allergies and sensitivities. That makes it harder to trim your grocery expenses. 
We don’t have a 529 plan. However if the worst case scenario of my husband being retrenched, kids would qualify for the state grants so it is not something we are worrying about. 
As for retirement, our current retirement savings are only whatever is in 401k. Our priority is in funding emergency savings. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

7 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I started this thread just out of curiosity. I really, really need to find a way to trim our budget to save for retirement and was curious and also hoping people would chime in with what they consider necessary. I was curious what other people's bare bones looked liked. Sometimes seeing that plenty of others think they could live on 4k a month makes me think maybe it could be done? It feels impossible rn though. 

I wasn't thinking through ALL the variables y'all have thrown at me, but I knew there would be variables, for sure.

I'm just having a hard time finding ways to trim ours and I feel like groceries are so.dang.high. It is like 50% of our budget, I'm not kidding. 

Have you actually looked at the local numbers?  Local median income is posted online.  So is the poverty line (and many live below that).  You might even be able to find the average cost of groceries for X number of people for your area.  I can find that for my area.  But my local numbers aren't going to be the same as your numbers, most likely.  (Plus I have to be celiac level gluten free etc.) 

[Ann.without.an.e]

6 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The whole college thing also gets to something that I find is a really basic divide between different parents. And it's not always along income levels. When I went to college, my parents were well below the poverty line. They had very little. My mother relied on support from her parents as she was digging out of being in school and being a single mom and not having a full time job (not to mention having chosen to go into the ministry - not a high paying line of work). My father had been out of work for almost two years and was living with a friend who was basically supporting him in order to have a permanent couch surfing poker buddy at his beck and call. No one ever questioned that they would do everything they could to support me attending and succeeding in college. 

I meet parents now sometimes who are incredibly affluent. Who own their homes, who take trips abroad, who don't know what it means to go to the grocery store and have your debit card declined and have to leave without food - something I routinely experienced as a teen. But who say the kids are on their own. They'll house and feed them as needed, but they're not paying for college as that's a step too far. The kids can take out their own loans. Or not. Whatever. It's on them. 

And, of course, everything in between.

But I find it personally dismaying. I cannot imagine doing that to my own kids. I cannot imagine my parents having done it to me. It would have been financially devastating. I would likely still be in poverty. If I didn't already have a kid in college and we had to start anew with him, I would STILL find a way to support him attending college. Likely it would be community college and transfer, but to do that, we'd have needed to buy him a car and insurance, so it wouldn't have been free, even if the CC could have been covered by DCTAG. I might literally have moved two years before the end of high school to give him in state options. Or maybe I'd have kept us here and gotten him psyched for schools that could have been covered with the $10k DCTAG plus a tiny bit more and then figured out how to stack scholarships. But it's just that important to me that my kids have the option of education.

 

 

 

I so so agree with this. I've known a few families like this and one family in particular really blew my mind since they both have master's degrees and their parents helped them get there. They have good careers and incomes, yet their son was "on his own" sink or swim. I helped him try to find ways to afford a state school and thankfully he did cc dual enrollment as a homeschooler and only had to pay for 2 years of university but it was all his debt to incur with zero help from parents. 

I cannot afford to foot 80k a year for ds but I will help him as much as I can. We really hope to be able to cover the equivalent of state tuition for him so he can be debt free if he chooses that route. So far none of my adult kids have school debt and I know it can really make a difference in how you start off life. He would like to go to Duke ( like his big sister ) and he is very smart and should have the test scores but he would have to get a scholarship (as she did) and even she wouldn't suggest he go into deep debt for it. 

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

13 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

You have food allergies and sensitivities. That makes it harder to trim your grocery expenses. 
We don’t have a 529 plan. However if the worst case scenario of my husband being retrenched, kids would qualify for the state grants so it is not something we are worrying about. 
As for retirement, our current retirement savings are only whatever is in 401k. Our priority is in funding emergency savings. 

 

10 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Have you actually looked at the local numbers?  Local median income is posted online.  So is the poverty line (and many live below that).  You might even be able to find the average cost of groceries for X number of people for your area.  I can find that for my area.  But my local numbers aren't going to be the same as your numbers, most likely.  (Plus I have to be celiac level gluten free etc.) 

Yes, all of us being gluten free and dairy free really inflates the grocery budget. Most of us are celiac level gf as well. It stinks. 

I need to look at those numbers. I haven't a clue where to find them but I will look.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Ann.without.an.e]

Also bunny trail warning, I give a lot. I love to give, especially meeting the monetary needs of others. It brings me immense joy. I have to scale back on this though and I know it. I also feel guilty if I don't pay for things. Like if the girls and I go somewhere, they don't expect me to pay for them, but I always do and would feel terrible if I didn't. Even if my mom, sister, my girls and I go out I cover the whole bill. I always do, it has become somewhat expected from my mom and sister (not my girls). Like I don't know how to not pay?? I feel guilty if I don't. I need therapy lol. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[prairiewindmomma]

You can search:

median income (your zipcode)

One of the things someone shared here over a decade ago is the difference between having an income problem versus an out-go problem. You really can’t save your way out of an income problem. Odds are you are living frugally and managing your funds well. But, the cost of living will always continue to increase. If you aren’t continuing to have increases in your income to match or exceed the rise in cost of living, you are going to struggle. 
 

Fwiw, we have ongoing medical and specialty food costs here that put us well beyond what most people would consider a “frugal” budget. Yet we are actually fairly bare bones in most things. Everyone has different circumstances and sometimes comparisons aren’t helpful. If we had only median income, we would be paying over 50% of our income just on rent and utilities and there’s no way we could afford our life sustaining medications.

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

You can search:

median income (your zipcode)

One of the things someone shared here over a decade ago is the difference between having an income problem versus an out-go problem. You really can’t save your way out of an income problem. Odds are you are living frugally and managing your funds well. But, the cost of living will always continue to increase. If you aren’t continuing to have increases in your income to match or exceed the rise in cost of living, you are going to struggle. 
 

Fwiw, we have ongoing medical and specialty food costs here that put us well beyond what most people would consider a “frugal” budget. Yet we are actually fairly bare bones in most things. Everyone has different circumstances and sometimes comparisons aren’t helpful. If we had only median income, we would be paying over 50% of our income just on rent and utilities and there’s no way we could afford our life sustaining medications.

 

 

I feel this. Medical and our crazy restrictive diets make it so hard. DS had so many medical bills and hospitalizations this year that he just  met his out of pocket max (we have a fairly high deductible so you can imagine how much money that takes???). Also, things like braces, dental, vision, vision therapy, etc are not even in that total. It makes a budget so hard. ETA - if we didn't have these expenses I think we would have a lot of extra in our budget. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

I need to look at those numbers. I haven't a clue where to find them but I will look.

Census.gov has the county level numbers.
e.g. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/santaclaracountycalifornia,CA/PST045221

e.g for my county $117,750 is considered low income for a family of four.

https://covid19.sccgov.org/sites/g/files/exjcpb766/files/Documents/santa-clara-county-2021-area-median-income-ami-chart.pdf

citi-data.com have estimated numbers by zip code that are quite realistic but not updated that frequently.

[elegantlion]

7 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I started this thread just out of curiosity. I really, really need to find a way to trim our budget to save for retirement and was curious and also hoping people would chime in with what they consider necessary. I was curious what other people's bare bones looked liked. Sometimes seeing that plenty of others think they could live on 4k a month makes me think maybe it could be done? It feels impossible rn though. 

I wasn't thinking through ALL the variables y'all have thrown at me, but I knew there would be variables, for sure.

I'm just having a hard time finding ways to trim ours and I feel like groceries are so.dang.high. It is like 50% of our budget, I'm not kidding. 

Our grocery bill has doubled in the last year and there is only two of us and we mostly shop at Aldi. It's been a challenge because we're very much in a need to be super frugal year right now. 

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The whole college thing also gets to something that I find is a really basic divide between different parents. And it's not always along income levels. When I went to college, my parents were well below the poverty line. They had very little. My mother relied on support from her parents as she was digging out of being in school and being a single mom and not having a full time job (not to mention having chosen to go into the ministry - not a high paying line of work). My father had been out of work for almost two years and was living with a friend who was basically supporting him in order to have a permanent couch surfing poker buddy at his beck and call. No one ever questioned that they would do everything they could to support me attending and succeeding in college. 

I meet parents now sometimes who are incredibly affluent. Who own their homes, who take trips abroad, who don't know what it means to go to the grocery store and have your debit card declined and have to leave without food - something I routinely experienced as a teen. But who say the kids are on their own. They'll house and feed them as needed, but they're not paying for college as that's a step too far. The kids can take out their own loans. Or not. Whatever. It's on them. 

And, of course, everything in between.

But I find it personally dismaying. I cannot imagine doing that to my own kids. I cannot imagine my parents having done it to me. It would have been financially devastating. I would likely still be in poverty. If I didn't already have a kid in college and we had to start anew with him, I would STILL find a way to support him attending college. Likely it would be community college and transfer, but to do that, we'd have needed to buy him a car and insurance, so it wouldn't have been free, even if the CC could have been covered by DCTAG. I might literally have moved two years before the end of high school to give him in state options. Or maybe I'd have kept us here and gotten him psyched for schools that could have been covered with the $10k DCTAG plus a tiny bit more and then figured out how to stack scholarships. But it's just that important to me that my kids have the option of education.

It is an interesting range, for sure.

My folks couldn't pay for college, but they encouraged us to take out student loans and let us live in their house when we attended a driveable campus.

I certainly want my kids to go to college.  I do think it stinks that it will cost them/us much more than most families due to my on-paper income (business owner).  I don't want to give my kids any hopes that I could pay more than state school tuition, because I honestly don't know that I can.  I'm 56 and single.  I have retirement savings, but I might need that myself, even if I'm not extravagant.  Asset values can tank without warning, health issues can arise, I could get sued or lose everything in a fire, ....  I also need to help other family members who are needy and older.

I'm ecstatic that my kids say they want to go to the nearest state university.  At one point, one of them said something about ivy leagues ... though she is smart enough, I have no desire to take on that stress level.  I mean, it's up to her if she wants to try to make that happen ... but I'm not committing to pay more money than most people will ever save, just so she can follow an unnecessary dream.

But you raised an interesting point.  From a "what if shit happens" perspective, state or community college is the safer bet, because the student is more likely to be able to continue in the face of adversity.  More likely to receive a diploma before they need to start paying student loans (if applicable).

Families with two established earners may have a different perspective in this regard ... especially if they are not close to retirement age.

[Ann.without.an.e]

4 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

Our grocery bill has doubled in the last year and there is only two of us and we mostly shop at Aldi. It's been a challenge because we're very much in a need to be super frugal year right now. 

 

With two kids getting married and moving out I thought groceries would be the area where I could save money?  But groceries have gone up so much that we're still spending more, even with less people to feed. One dd and her husband eat with us a few times a week but still? Our bill has increased, it's crazy. 

ETA - to explain how much of a cut in people being fed this is, often both guys were eating with us before so I was feeding 8 many nights and now I'm feeding 4 but some nights 6. Occasionally it is still all 8 but that is rare. Point is, I thought this is where I would really save money but costs have increased so much that proved not true. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[mommyoffive]

16 hours ago, Condessa said:

To cover our housing, utilities, homeowner’s insurance, clothing, etc., we need about $1600 per month.  If we had to feed the family for the absolute least we could healthily I think I could shave a couple hundred off and come in at $600.  However, keeping everyone alive and healthy means adding about $500 more per month on transportation (gas, car insurance, maintenance) for ds’s medical care.

These numbers assume that we still retain double medical coverage for the kids, both dh’s work insurance+ up to $8,000 per year reimbursement of medical bills by his work and the secondary state coverage.  If we lost either one we’d be looking at adding maybe $800 to $1,000 more per month in medical bills.

Almost the exact same here.  If we would have bought our house at the right time it would be a lot less.  Bought in 2006.  Sigh.  If we would only waited a year or 2.  Still live in our first home.

Except we don't have the medical bills usually. 

This would be after tax money and health insurance taken out.   

This is just our paying for our needs.  Cutting out EC for the kids which that and travel is where we spend a lot.  We have a very large EF, College savings, and max everything for retirement.  Other than travel and kids ECs we just don't spend.  Like we have only had Netflix for a few months in the pandemic.  Dh's income has quadrupled since we first bought our house.

[Ann.without.an.e]

20 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Census.gov has the county level numbers.
e.g. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/santaclaracountycalifornia,CA/PST045221

e.g for my county $117,750 is considered low income for a family of four.

https://covid19.sccgov.org/sites/g/files/exjcpb766/files/Documents/santa-clara-county-2021-area-median-income-ami-chart.pdf

citi-data.com have estimated numbers by zip code that are quite realistic but not updated that frequently.

 

Our median income is pretty low, like 52,000. We live in a pretty underprivileged county. DH doesn't work in this county though. I do not think we could survive on 52k a year at all. If we didn't have the dietary issues or high medical costs then we probably could, only because our housing is so reasonable (we own, have a low interest rate, and bought it with a lot of work needed and did it ourselves). I bet our housing costs are only about 1100 a month, including the energy bill, taxes, etc and that is with a 15 year mortgage. We are very very blessed in that area. I looked it up, in the neighboring county where DH works and we tend to do a lot of our shopping and medical visits there, it is $82k average. That seems more reasonable to me. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Guest]

@Farrar I totally agree with your post about the lengths you would go to for college support. I feel the same but from the opposite background. My parents had few resources but they also did not endorse college for “girls”. They never specifically forbade it, but they talked down about “girls” having careers, which would surely lead them to be daycare moms. So the belief that*I* could really go to college didn’t even enter my head until my mid-twenties and it took me 10+ years to make that vision a reality. 
 

So part of my emphasis about my commitment to pay my kids’ way through college is built on that background. If my kids turned out to have a solid plan that did not involve college, well that is something we could discuss, but if they didn't complete a college degree it wasn’t going to be because I failed to help them or stuck it on their shoulders. So far, my two YAs finished their bachelor’s…one more kiddo to go.

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

 If I didn't already have a kid in college and we had to start anew with him, I would STILL find a way to support him attending college. ... But it's just that important to me that my kids have the option of education.

This. Because education is the only thing you can take with you wherever you go.
The real estate market can collapse, investments can tank, civilizations can crumble - but nobody can take your education away from you.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I cannot afford to foot 80k a year for ds but I will help him as much as I can. We really hope to be able to cover the equivalent of state tuition for him so he can be debt free if he chooses that route. So far none of my adult kids have school debt and I know it can really make a difference in how you start off life. He would like to go to Duke ( like his big sister ) and he is very smart and should have the test scores but he would have to get a scholarship (as she did) and even she wouldn't suggest he go into deep debt for it.

Just a comment on school debt. One always needs to consider the student's major and the starting salaries before making a pronouncement whether debt is worth it or not. The graduates at my state uni's STEM campus make on average 70k right out of school - it would be ridiculously easy to live frugally for a couple of years and pay off the debt. So my advice to a civil engineering major would be much different than that to a philosophy major. And, yes, "deep" debt vs just a bit of debt also makes a difference. It all needs to be in a sensible proportion to expected income.
 

Edited December 13, 2022 by regentrude

[teachermom2834]

Selling my house wouldn’t even really be an option in dire straits. For short term cash, sure, but my mortgage on my 2700 sq Ft house is less than $1000 including taxes and insurance. I’d love to sell and get cash out and downsize and rent for awhile but I can’t make that work. We could stop our retirement savings for awhile but by the time we paid taxes on them and lost the company match what we are bringing home isn’t much of a difference maker. We could stop putting money in the HSA but then we would still have medical expenses that we then had to pay out of pocket so no actual savings. 
 

I’ve run these numbers every which way as a middle income family still feeling squeezed. Can’t do better on housing even though I’d be willing to rent a little apartment for awhile. Can’t make a difference by passing up the benefits of the 401k or HSA to see that money now. Yet still paying alot of taxes and not getting financial aid for college because on paper it sure looks like we have plenty coming in. 
 

I’m not complaining! We have a home and we have retirement and HSA savings! After growing up poor I feel rich some days. Yet, someone would look at dh’s income and think surely we can afford all sorts of things that we really can’t because of how we are set up. My dd goes to private high school and it is a huge splurge and it’s a burden but I feel super privileged doing it so I’m not all woe is me- just some things just aren’t as easy to cut back on and make a big swing in the budget as one might think- like housing or cutting back on tax advantaged savings or whatever. 
 

It really isn’t so simple as sell the house.

Edited December 13, 2022 by teachermom2834

[catz]

15 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Just a comment on school debt. One always needs to consider the student's major and the starting salaries before making a pronouncement whether debt is worth it or not. The graduates at my state uni's STEM campus make on average 70k right out of school - it would be ridiculously easy to live frugally for a couple of years and pay off the debt. So my advice to a civil engineering major would be much different than that to a philosophy major. And, yes, "deep" debt vs just a bit of debt also makes a difference. It all needs to be in a sensible proportion to expected income.
 

Sure, but I also think it's a bit dangerous to over bank on future income before it is made.  Like 50-60 percent or more students change major and I'd hate for a kid to be railroaded down a degree path due to a financial decision made before a kid might really understand what that is going to feel like after graduating and how it limits your options.  I've seen some parent/child relationships suffer over cosigning situations too.  

That said, I'd have no problem with my kids taking out federal loan limits.  We are lucky for them not to need to take loans, but if that was our first defense in a pinch, we would certainly have them do that.  

[Clemsondana]

This is hard to think about because there are so many interconnected parts.  We bought a house on a couple of acres.  We have a big garden and last year put in a small greenhouse.  The greenhouse is more for my entertainment, but right now I have green onion, lettuce, and spinach growing.  if we were dependent on it, I'd be working it more intensely.  I spend a lot of time driving kids around. If we had to cut activities, I'd have that time back.  I'd spend more of it growing things and I'd cut out our scheduled carryout nights.  We have lots of room for chest freezers in an unfinsihed basement, so we freeze lots of produce and buy meat in bulk.  If we had to downsize due to finances, we'd likely still try to find a way to keep at least 1-2 of our 3 freezers because the ability to buy meat and other products in bulk is a substantial cost savings.  My grandmother had a tiny house with a bedroom housing the dining room table that she'd inherited, with a big chest freezer in one corner that was used as a buffet for holiday desserts.  That's probably how we'd roll, too, as far as the freezer goes.  

But, even with that, food is crazy expensive.  I've found a few things that are cheap to make and I do them regularly because I have 2 sporty teens that eat insane amounts of food.  Recently I converted a southwestern spinach-bean-corn egg roll recipe that I like into a quesadilla recipe.  It's a cheap, quick, filling meal that everybody likes.  Subbing beans for meat filling, or using only a little meat and a lot of beans in tacos or nachos also helps.  One kid likes the zatarains beans and rice mixes as a convenience meal, and I could get in the habit of making that, only from scratch, more often.  I look for cheap substitutes - when turkey breasts were a lot cheaper than chicken at one of our stores for a while, I bought that and used it in place of cooked chicken in soup.  

I'm glad that you clarified, because in a way my answer would depend on why we were cutting finances.  If spouse, who works, were suddenly incapacitated, we'd likely move to something more manageable.  Or maybe we'd take in a boarder and swap yard/garden work for rent.  If an apocalypse hit and spouse's industry shut down but we were physically fine, we'd convert more grass to food production and figure out how to raise chickens.  It's really hard to think about these because so many details affect each other that the specific circumstances matter.  When we bought this house, it felt like a stretch, but worth it for the land.  Now regular houses in neighborhoods are a lot more comparable to the price we paid, so moving wouldn't help our mortgage as much as it once would have.  

[Dmmetler]

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

Yeah, "paying for college" can mean paying the $1000 a year gap between your state grant and the total cost for a cheaper state school or a community college or paying $80k sticker price for a prestigious private university. Seriously, I would suggest people not assume they know what "paying for college" means. We are not paying even now some of the costs people have tossed out as their idea of what "college" costs.

There's also a big cost for a kid stopping paying midway through. That cost is time and more money and opportunity. So yes, we made a choice with our kid to pay a bit more for a college (though, let me point out that we did not have an in state option at all here as our not-a-state does not have a serious public university system) that is a luxury in a sense. But also, now that the choice is made and the whole thing started, his best chance of finishing without messing up financial aid and everything else is to finish where he is. And it's worth paying more to not lose those credits or have to start over. Transferring can be a huge pain and I've seen it go very wrong. If we had to make a decision from scratch with a new financial reality, then kid would have been forced to take a different college. And that would have been fine - the cheapest option was probably his third choice of the schools he applied to. It would have been fine. But he can't switch out now to save that money. It's too late.

We’d be in a similar situation. L is far enough in that changing wouldn’t make sense, but if our financial status were to change dramatically, hopefully financial aid would get better, because while L has some decent scholarships, they made a private LAC affordable based on our current income, not half or less of it. 

[Soror]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The whole college thing also gets to something that I find is a really basic divide between different parents. And it's not always along income levels. When I went to college, my parents were well below the poverty line. They had very little. My mother relied on support from her parents as she was digging out of being in school and being a single mom and not having a full time job (not to mention having chosen to go into the ministry - not a high paying line of work). My father had been out of work for almost two years and was living with a friend who was basically supporting him in order to have a permanent couch surfing poker buddy at his beck and call. No one ever questioned that they would do everything they could to support me attending and succeeding in college. 

I meet parents now sometimes who are incredibly affluent. Who own their homes, who take trips abroad, who don't know what it means to go to the grocery store and have your debit card declined and have to leave without food - something I routinely experienced as a teen. But who say the kids are on their own. They'll house and feed them as needed, but they're not paying for college as that's a step too far. The kids can take out their own loans. Or not. Whatever. It's on them. 

And, of course, everything in between.

But I find it personally dismaying. I cannot imagine doing that to my own kids. I cannot imagine my parents having done it to me. It would have been financially devastating. I would likely still be in poverty. If I didn't already have a kid in college and we had to start anew with him, I would STILL find a way to support him attending college. Likely it would be community college and transfer, but to do that, we'd have needed to buy him a car and insurance, so it wouldn't have been free, even if the CC could have been covered by DCTAG. I might literally have moved two years before the end of high school to give him in state options. Or maybe I'd have kept us here and gotten him psyched for schools that could have been covered with the $10k DCTAG plus a tiny bit more and then figured out how to stack scholarships. But it's just that important to me that my kids have the option of education.

Not paying for your kid's top choice education does not equal being unsupportive of a college education. 

While there are a few parents that leave their kids high and dry when they come of age from everything I've seen this is far less likely to happen now.

The vast majority of parents are doing the best they can for their kids with the resources that they have. Most parents want their children to succeed.

My son, like most PS'ers in our state, could attend the local CC for free. We looked and found a major that worked for his desired field. We'd be happy to have him at home so he could attend the first 2 years for free. (and I did a lot of figuring as to what was the best financial decision comparing freshman vs transfer scholarships looking at transfer agreements course by course, taking him to different colleges, etc). And these days there are many 4 year degrees you can do through the local CC so you could get by with only having 2 yrs of tuition which is at a much reduced rate. In the end, he decided it was worth some debt on his part to go off to school to start. We're doing what we can to help him with this but as we told him before we don't have the funds to pay the entirety of the remainder of his bill. We hope to be able to keep him to the federal student loan limits but we are lucky to be able to do that.

My parents did not pay for my college as they couldn't afford it. They were as supportive as they could be encouraging me to pursue my college education (although they lacked the knowledge of the how tos). I do not resent them for their inability to pay. I'm glad they prioritized saving what they could for retirement as they are able to support themselves now. 

We all know that those who can give their kids more end up with kids further ahead. Reminding all those with less of that reality isn't terribly helpful. It  doesn't change how much funds are available.

We budget down to the penny and track every expense.   And we're lucky with what we do have. Dh should graduate in 1.5 years or so. We still won't be rolling in the dough but we'll have considerably more wiggle room to help the kids and bank away more for our own future. 

There are plenty of parents I know that have far less than we do. They can't help their kids at all with college that doesn't mean they won't be supportive. Crap is expensive these days. People are hanging on and doing what they can.

 

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

Not paying for your kid's top choice education does not equal being unsupportive of a college education. 

While there are a few parents that leave their kids high and dry when they come of age from everything I've seen this is far less likely to happen now.

The vast majority of parents are doing the best they can for their kids with the resources that they have. Most parents want their children to succeed.

My son, like most PS'ers in our state, could attend the local CC for free. We looked and found a major that worked for his desired field. We'd be happy to have him at home so he could attend the first 2 years for free. (and I did a lot of figuring as to what was the best financial decision comparing freshman vs transfer scholarships looking at transfer agreements course by course, taking him to different colleges, etc). And these days there are many 4 year degrees you can do through the local CC so you could get by with only having 2 yrs of tuition which is at a much reduced rate. In the end, he decided it was worth some debt on his part to go off to school to start. We're doing what we can to help him with this but as we told him before we don't have the funds to pay the entirety of the remainder of his bill. We hope to be able to keep him to the federal student loan limits but we are lucky to be able to do that.

My parents did not pay for my college as they couldn't afford it. They were as supportive as they could be encouraging me to pursue my college education (although they lacked the knowledge of the how tos). I do not resent them for their inability to pay. I'm glad they prioritized saving what they could for retirement as they are able to support themselves now. 

We all know that those who can give their kids more end up with kids further ahead. Reminding all those with less of that reality isn't terribly helpful. It  doesn't change how much funds are available.

We budget down to the penny and track every expense.   And we're lucky with what we do have. Dh should graduate in 1.5 years or so. We still won't be rolling in the dough but we'll have considerably more wiggle room to help the kids and bank away more for our own future. 

There are plenty of parents I know that have far less than we do. They can't help their kids at all with college that doesn't mean they won't be supportive. Crap is expensive these days. People are hanging on and doing what they can.

 

I didn't say not paying for your kid's top choice. But I've seen a lot of families refuse to pay for much even when they can. And because the cost of college is in large part a function of how much the family has, it's weirdly harder on middle class kids than poor ones. If a family genuinely has nothing and has an EFC of zero, that kid may have more options than a kid in an affluent family who is like, you get $5k a year and absolutely nothing more. Like, they'll house and feed their kids forever, but they won't pay more than some really low, not really achievable amount or won't pay anything at all. Or they forbid their kids from taking on any debt at all, even if the kid is taking on modest loans to do a relatively high paying degree. So then they're just shooting their kid in the foot. I have honestly been surprised by how often I hear about this in my circles, among families who own a home, have resources, etc. I'm not talking about families who can genuinely do nothing other than moral support. Though I'll just say... in my experience, beyond families who have so little that they are experiencing food/housing insecurity themselves, most families do end up giving some support that includes financial. My parents had so little when I was a kid. My dad was effectively homeless. My mother was in debt up to her eyeballs and had not worked a full time job in several years. We were free lunch kids when I started college. And they still found ways to give me money to get to college, to eat at college, to pay a small amount of tuition, even if they had to argue with the fin aid office every semester. I'm eternally grateful for that. And I believe in going to those lengths for my kids. It doesn't mean being irrational or paying for anything. It means prioritizing education however I can.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Farrar

[teachermom2834]

There is also stretching to make ends meet temporarily and living that way indefinitely. Those are two different things. When I was a young SAHM with extremely low income I really was idealistic about how little we could live on indefinitely. Because I really have very few wants and grew up with so little. But living that way forever is something totally different that I just didn’t understand when I was 22. I am fortunate that dh’s income grew with our family because what I thought we could do - we could not have. Eventually you need stuff. 
 

We went through a couple periods of unemployment about 8-9 years ago while I still had four kids at home. I rocked making that work and stretching the budget. But we survived because we had retirement savings we could raid (something people would consider a luxury) and we owned a home we were able to sell and make a move (another luxury- home ownership). So those things weren’t ultimately extras. We eventually needed them. 
 

And you know what else was holy crazy? After about 18 months we needed everything. Everyone needed shoes and clothes and backpacks and personal items and car maintenance and all the things that we got by without because we were living on the minimum with no extras- we eventually did need them. So they weren’t really extras. They were just delayed. Which was fine for awhile but eventually you need stuff and when you have been deferring it you need it all at the same time. 
 

All that to say there is a difference between temporarily getting by and permanent lifestyle choices. And sometimes what someone will call extra isn’t really (I include education there in many circumstances). It’s “extra” until it is needed and then it is necessary and you better have it. And some things you can put off a while but the bill eventually comes due. 
 

Another factor is your personal social safety net. Some of the people I know who boast about how little they get by on or that they don’t have savings do have family to back them up. That is awesome! But we have no one if disaster strikes us. So in that way something like a retirement savings that someone else might say shouldn’t be included as a necessity absolutely is. Because it is our only safety net. 
 

So many factors. 

[madteaparty]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

This. Because education is the only thing you can take with you wherever you go.
The real estate market can collapse, investments can tank, civilizations can crumble - but nobody can take your education away from you.

That, and we are not giving the kids anything else. Just their education, god wiling. 

[Brittany1116]

College didn't factor into my votes. DH and I were both first-gen to college in our families. He had need-based scholarship; I had merit. We both worked multiple jobs to pay for gas and food and in my case, an apartment. We went to local or semi-local schools. I had a Pell grant for one year, then my mom got a PT job for the first time in my lifetime and was over the limit by $16. 

We plan to pay for as much of our kids' tuition and fees as possible, should one or both attend. Our preference and tentative plan is that they stay local and live at home, atleast for a year or two. We also hope they get a good chunk of credits via DE and that they can qualify for FL BF scholarship.We won't be offering all-expenses paid to a cross-country school. We have a tiny start on savings for them, which we have not added to this year, and the mortgage is scheduled to be paid off before the first graduates HS.

[Harriet Vane]

6 hours ago, regentrude said:

This. Because education is the only thing you can take with you wherever you go.
The real estate market can collapse, investments can tank, civilizations can crumble - but nobody can take your education away from you.

Exactly.

[mum]

9 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I started this thread just out of curiosity. I really, really need to find a way to trim our budget to save for retirement and was curious and also hoping people would chime in with what they consider necessary. I was curious what other people's bare bones looked liked. Sometimes seeing that plenty of others think they could live on 4k a month makes me think maybe it could be done? It feels impossible rn though. 

I wasn't thinking through ALL the variables y'all have thrown at me, but I knew there would be variables, for sure.

I'm just having a hard time finding ways to trim ours and I feel like groceries are so.dang.high. 

I follow this blog https://theprudenthomemaker.com/blog/. So many good frugal ideas.

2 of our 3 kids got full ride scholarships to in-state public university, that's how we 'paid' for college for 3 kids. The one that didn't also went to in-state public university. I guess if they were looking for elite careers a 'name' college would have been better, but all 3 have been full time employed since the day they graduated. One has a grad degree she paid for herself, renting a room from a family in a very small house-one bathroom shared by all 5 people, just to keep her living costs down.  Both our cars are 16 years old, one with over 225,000 miles on it-it's is a manual transmission, bare bones car that gets good mileage for a gasoline car. When it is over 40 degrees at 7am my husband will ride to work 11 miles each way on the electric bike, which he then charges at work. This has cut down a lot on gas costs. He also carpools when he does drive. We are 2 adults and spent $350 a month on food-I have celiac and about 15  serious food allergies so all of mine is made from scratch at home. I bring home food if there's any leftover food being offered at a get together, or things on offer in the staff room at work. I can't eat any of it, but it really helps feed my husband. I grow a garden, have fruit trees, and focus on perennial foods that I don't have to buy and plant each year (eg. tree collards, raspberries, etc). I go to free clothes exchanges, ask for pricier new clothes for gifts from extended family. We use graywater from the washing machine to water the fruit trees and keep our water consumption in the lowest tier this way. Consumer cellular offers very good phone plans for good prices with excellent customer service. I just replaced my phone, it was 8 years old. My husbands phone is also 8 years old, it was a cast off from one of our kids. Friends know that we love hand-me-downs/cast offs. We were just given a lovely wood outdoor table from friends that moved. My outdoor chairs are free from someone else. I took all my mothers white curtains when she tired of them, and have outfitted my whole house, and one daughter's house too. The twin bed in the guest room-free from another friend. And so it goes. If I wanted to "decorate" in a certain style, this wouldn't work. But I am happy with free. Safeway offers a freebie each week. Last week it was a package of hot dogs-perfect for my husband. Their loss leaders are quite good-$1.97 for a pound of butter. $3/lb for store brand cheese. I missed a trick today. The principal offered me a free school lunch which was freshly cooked chicken breast and I said no! I should have accepted and brought it home for my husband.

None of this is to brag. I wanted to share in the hopes that it gives you some inspiration for places you can save. We have spent the first 12 years of marriage WAY under the poverty line, so all that I do has been developed over time. One bonus is that I know I can live on less if need be.

Blessings to you on your journey.

[Carrie12345]

Our previous situation(s) didn’t allow us to save for kids’ college, and we have a 12 year age range across 5 kids, so it’s not something that could be caught up in any reasonable manner. It DID give us the perk of being able to re-prioritize.

We can now float CC, but no one has taken us up on the offer yet (except me, lol). We can eventually assist with paying down loans (only 1 is in a 4-yr right now.) And we can always provide a roof, food, essentials, etc. (Only 1 non-minor is in on that offer right now.)

I like this position, because I think it’s reduced how much influence I’d otherwise try to push. I know I would have a giant inner struggle paying for a music degree. I know I’d push one kid to their next level training before they felt ready. I know I’d push another to just start “and see where it goes.” But they’re weighing their own pros and cons, and financials and goals.  
(It helps that so far no one wants to be a doctor or engineer.)

Instead, we’ve focused on teaching them the most affordable routes of education, how to maximize their resources, and setting life up so they don’t have to factor in taking care of us someday.

Of course education is a big deal to us, or I wouldn’t be on year 15? 16? of homeschooling. And it’s easy to say “Well, we couldn’t save for 5 expensive schools, and now our kids don’t qualify for aid, so here we are!” But it’s forced a lot of serious contemplation that we probably wouldn’t have done if we had been a wealthy household all along.

My conclusion is that college ISN’T 100% essential for a safe, secure, productive, happy life if you’ve thought through your goals and considered your options. I’ll support it to the very best of my ability because it’s a very, very good key to have. But I haven’t seen a degree as the end all be all since 1995, when I was pushed to reject a different path and take the 4 year “just because… expectations” before I was ready to plan my adulthood. And that really messed me up.

(This is not a commentary on other people’s situations. Happy people are happy people and good on them! This is my perspective in my corner of the world.)

[Meriwether]

I said $4000 and $800, but that isn't true exactly. We could sell our home, buy a cheaper one, and live on $2-3000/month. Groceries could maybe go as low as $600 for 6 people and still be buying decent food, but we get beef from my parents.

One of the reasons we could do that is because many of our expenses would go way down. The kids would qualify for financial aid, taxes would be way lower, tithe would be way lower.

But it would also mean cutting some huge bills. We couldn't afford TKD (which is definitely an extra) at that income. A huge, huge percent of our discretionary income goes to that right now. This calendar year, we competed in at least 10 different states and Ds16 competed in Brazil. Next year, two people in our family will be traveling with the National Team and Ds16 will be training in an 11th state. I do everything I can to minimize the expenses and Ds16 got a job to help pay for it, but it is still a money suck. If we made less money, that expense would just go away. Ironically,  we might actually have more money in the budget if we made less.

We'll have two kids in college next year. They are both making cheap choices and working to pay for as much as they can. We are trying to cover everything else. If we made less money, Dd19 would have a full ride and Ds18 would be getting financial aid. Between FA, his sister having a full ride, and his working we'd still be able to cover it, I think.

[teachermom2834]

6 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

Ironically,  we might actually have more money in the budget if we made less.

 

Totally feel this. 

 

[DawnM]

Well, it is hard to answer because we COULD downsize and purchase a smaller house with cash.   We actually would like to do that at some point in the future.   That will save on utilities too.

Right now we have a mortgage, but that is our only debt.   We don't pay on cars.

And then there is the "Do you mean when all the kids are home?" for food.   I think the 6 of us COULD live on $800/mo for food if we needed to.   We have done it on much less when we were penny pinching.   We got down to $300/mo for a while, but that was with only 3 smaller kids, not grown men.  It also required more food prep on my part.

[Laura Corin]

For comparison, the UK median disposable income is £31,400, (around $39,000 US) and that's roughly what we have too.  However, we are largely just supporting two adults (Maybe £1,000 a year goes to children's expenses that we still finance).  We own our home outright and only have to run one VW Golf - Husband is retired and we are on several bus routes.  We have retirement savings already and are not saving for college.  We could downsize if we needed to, or could make money from renting out part of the house (tourist area).

We spend a lot on quality fresh food, but don't eat much meat and rarely eat out.

[Condessa]

I was curious after reading other posters mention median income for their locations, and looked mine up.  $42,000 a year is the median household income here.  
 

We always planned to help our kids with college costs.  Not a full ride, but the equivalent of paying for what tuition would cost at our alma mater (which admittedly is a very low cost-for-quality school) and letting them figure out the rest through scholarships, savings, and loans.  That is roughly what our parents did for us.  We have been trying to save since dd13’s birth.  Ds8’s health issues as a baby drained those savings and took three years to pay off that medical debt before we could start college savings again.  Then we started to make some good progress for a few years until the cancer diagnosis, and since then it’s been more and more of a struggle.  We have five years to go until oldest is college age, and I have the sinking feeling that there’s just going to be no way we will be able to give the level of financial help we want to.  Especially with the prospect of dh’s income soon inching over the line that will disqualify the kids for the secondary state insurance.  There are lots of scholarships out there for cancer survivors that ds8 can apply for, but there aren’t many for the other kids whose parents spent all their resources keeping a sibling alive.  Likewise, when FAFSA calculates their estimated family contribution, I don’t think it takes this into consideration.

[mommyoffive]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Our previous situation(s) didn’t allow us to save for kids’ college, and we have a 12 year age range across 5 kids, so it’s not something that could be caught up in any reasonable manner. It DID give us the perk of being able to re-prioritize.

We can now float CC, but no one has taken us up on the offer yet (except me, lol). We can eventually assist with paying down loans (only 1 is in a 4-yr right now.) And we can always provide a roof, food, essentials, etc. (Only 1 non-minor is in on that offer right now.)

I like this position, because I think it’s reduced how much influence I’d otherwise try to push. I know I would have a giant inner struggle paying for a music degree. I know I’d push one kid to their next level training before they felt ready. I know I’d push another to just start “and see where it goes.” But they’re weighing their own pros and cons, and financials and goals.  
(It helps that so far no one wants to be a doctor or engineer.)

Instead, we’ve focused on teaching them the most affordable routes of education, how to maximize their resources, and setting life up so they don’t have to factor in taking care of us someday.

Of course education is a big deal to us, or I wouldn’t be on year 15? 16? of homeschooling. And it’s easy to say “Well, we couldn’t save for 5 expensive schools, and now our kids don’t qualify for aid, so here we are!” But it’s forced a lot of serious contemplation that we probably wouldn’t have done if we had been a wealthy household all along.

My conclusion is that college ISN’T 100% essential for a safe, secure, productive, happy life if you’ve thought through your goals and considered your options. I’ll support it to the very best of my ability because it’s a very, very good key to have. But I haven’t seen a degree as the end all be all since 1995, when I was pushed to reject a different path and take the 4 year “just because… expectations” before I was ready to plan my adulthood. And that really messed me up.

(This is not a commentary on other people’s situations. Happy people are happy people and good on them! This is my perspective in my corner of the world.)

Agree and same for me.  I was forced into it is the only thing you did after high school.  I am not doing that to my kids.  We have open conversations that college is not the only path forward. But we will also support them if they choose that .