Help me decide how I react (job related, long)

[Moonhawk]

In summary, it could have gone better.

There were a total of 3 candidates interviewed separately, me included.

It was a bit awkward pretending not to know everyone on the committee when I see them every day. They all introduced themselves and their job, etc. I did the same. What was supposed to be 20 minutes only ended up being 10. I had one lame question for the "do you have any questions for us" part because all the questions I'd usually ask about culture, environment, size of department, etc., I already know. 

They did ask my favorite part of my current position and I jokingly said "my boss" which got a good laugh and then gave a more serious answer. They asked my least favorite part, and I didn't do a politique answer, was blunt about it (front desk phones). Maybe not the best option but its no surprise to at least 2/3 of them and really any other answer Boss would know I'm lying. 

Weird, to me and to everyone at work I've discussed this with, I had to clock out and drive home to do the video interview. While they did the interviews from the conference room connected to my desk. I get being treated the same, but I had hoped/thought me using a different conference room or an empty office would be an option. Nope. It threw off the rest of my day, rushing home for this then rushing back. 

This morning: I did get a call back, they invited me to an in person interview next Tuesday 1pm, 1.5 hour interview. I am not the only candidate being interviewed that day, there are 2 of us this round. They said they "reserved me the 1pm slot" which to me means they gave the other person the option of time. Which, I get, I'm the most flexible since I'm right there and scheduled to be there all day, but bleh. 

So I'm still in the game, but I'm concerned about this. I'll be at my desk when the other candidate goes past at least once, if not twice, so I'll get a vibe check immediately after my own interview. My Boss initially asked if I wanted the rest of the day off after the long interview, but as we discussed options we both realized there's no one to cover my desk (the dept we are borrowing someone from during my actual interview has made a couple comments about "willing to help for an hour or two..."). 

eta: starting to look to send out resumes.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Moonhawk

[Jaybee]

This whole thing sounds so awkward and weird. I'm sorry that it isn't just cut and dried, like it should be.

[prairiewindmomma]

That is so weird…how they are handling the internal candidate situation. 
 

Best wishes!!

[KungFuPanda]

This all feels like they’re going to sabotage you to keep someone at that front desk. I hope I’m wrong, but they’ve got a couple people vying for the other job and nobody applying for reception. They’re going to want to cover bases and if they give you a “team player” speech I hope you kick them. 
 

I really really want you to get the position you want. 

[fraidycat]

That all sounds really weird and awkward. I'm sorry they are making it that way.

I agree with KungFuPanda that I hope you kick them if they give you the team player speech. If I were in your position and if they hire the other candidate, I would seriously consider handing in my resignation immediately even if I didn't have another job lined up, unless I absolutely needed the money to keep food on the table and a roof over my head.

[elegantlion]

I'm sorry that it's awkward. The going home to interview is just weird, although I get their reasoning. It lacks common sense, however, which is seemingly has been happening with your job position. There is no way that you should not get this job, it's the job you were hired for. I agree with fraidycat, that on principle, I'd consider turning in a resignation immediately if you don't get the job. The scenario, in my head at least, is that you could say "well, it's okay, just put (inser new hire's name) on the front desk and tell her it's temporary. That's what you did to me." Then smile and walk out. Of course, I'd probably not be gutsy enough to do that. 

I hope your interview goes well. 

[Catwoman]

Even if you get the job, I think you should keep sending out those resumes and going on interviews, because this company sounds WEIRD to me, and it doesn't seem like they value you. 

It is bizarre that everyone pretended not to know each other at the interview. I can understand everyone being professional, but that whole situation just sounded strange and wrong to me. I'm not loving these people. 

[JustEm]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Even if you get the job, I think you should keep sending out those resumes and going on interviews, because this company sounds WEIRD to me, and it doesn't seem like they value you. 

It is bizarre that everyone pretended not to know each other at the interview. I can understand everyone being professional, but that whole situation just sounded strange and wrong to me. I'm not loving these people. 

This is how I would go about it.  From what OP described, I wouldn't want to work for that company.  They certainly don't value her as an employee if she was hired for one position and thrust into another just to watch the position she expected to be posted as available.  And sending you home to interview and then act like no one knows each other is just unprofessional and childish.  It shows the company is not well organized or practical thinkers if they don't already have a smooth process for internal hire interviews. Internal hires happen all the time in the working world.  

[Corraleno]

It sounds like the whole unnecessary charade of pretending you're not an internal candidate is to protect themselves when they hire someone else — they can claim it was totally fair because they treated everyone exactly the same. If they hire another person for the job you were promised, I hope you can turn in your resignation immediately and leave before the new person starts, rather than wait until you've trained the new person to do a job that should have been yours all along. They are idiots if they think screwing over a loyal employee is what's best for their company.

[Amethyst]

Go in with confidence! The other candidate doesn’t know the organization or the position as well as you. Let’s just assume that they really want you, but they have to make it look like they did a thorough search. I think the job is yours. Act like you think so too! Good luck. 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

It sounds like the whole unnecessary charade of pretending you're not an internal candidate is to protect themselves when they hire someone else — they can claim it was totally fair because they treated everyone exactly the same. If they hire another person for the job you were promised, I hope you can turn in your resignation immediately and leave before the new person starts, rather than wait until you've trained the new person to do a job that should have been yours all along. They are idiots if they think screwing over a loyal employee is what's best for their company.

I agree! There is no way I would be training someone else to do the job I had been promised!

[mommyoffive]

It sounds so awkward.  Sending good thoughts your way, but yeah I would be looking elsewhere at the same time.

[Spryte]

2 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Go in with confidence! The other candidate doesn’t know the organization or the position as well as you. Let’s just assume that they really want you, but they have to make it look like they did a thorough search. I think the job is yours. Act like you think so too! Good luck. 

I would encourage you to do this! You are clearly the best candidate.

 

I’d also be ready to confidently hand in a resignation if they hire someone else, and go find a job elsewhere. Immediately. You will be the best candidate somewhere else, too.

[TechWife]

I'm sorry it didn't go better. FWIW, I think it's strange that they are "treating you like any other candidate" because you aren't, you're an internal applicant. With any company I've ever interviewed with that is a significant leg up. Pretending not to know you is weird, too. I hope you get the job you want, but I agree with the others, you should hand in your resignation if you don't get the promotion.

 

[Moonhawk]

Yeah... they have done at least 5 internal transfers/promotions since I've been here, that I've seen pretty up close. None have been like this. 4/5 didn't have any tangible interview process (like where it's posted, or even where a conference room is booked for discussion). It's leading me to think that they are more interested in bringing in from the outside. Or, at least, it feels like HR would prefer this, since they are the drivers of the process. 

And yeah, the fact that I'm already inside and know so much is a definite strong advantage and I don't like it's just being pretended out of the interview process. It's definitely going to be one of my key talking points during the upcoming interview.

IDK about handing in resignation immediately. I mean, I'd want to, lol, and DH is beyond angry on my behalf so he'd say yes if I asked his opinion, but financially idk if I want to put us in that position. OTOH, I don't think I can stomach being there when a new person comes in and then being introduced to them as the Front Desk. That might be enough to make me quit on the spot, so maybe I'll have to end it more professionally before it gets to that point.

I'll still act like I expect the job and focus on the positives that point that way. I know I'm the best candidate for the job. And less than a week before we know how this ends now, so that's good. 

[fraidycat]

3 hours ago, Moonhawk said:. OTOH, I don't think I can stomach being there when a new person comes in and then being introduced to them as the Front Desk. That might be enough to make me quit on the spot, so maybe I'll have to end it more professionally before it gets to that point.

 

Or not. I actually think they'd deserve their 'just desserts' to introduce you as front desk and you say "nope, I'm not front desk and was not hired to do this job" and then walk out. By taking down the posting for the front desk job and posting the higher up position, they are counting on "someone" (you) to "feel guilty" about leaving them in a bind. It really feels like they are stringing you along because if they promote you to the spot you were promised at the beginning, they are still no further along in filling the gaps in your department. It'd still be a two person office vs. four when you first started.

I really, really hope I am wrong about that and that you do get the position. Maybe they'll offer the other person the (2) positions you are currently filling 🤷🏻‍♀️in a "we decided to go with another candidate, but we also have this position available" type of thing.

I'm keeping all the things crossed that you get the job and in the end this is all just a thought experiment on how I'd love to "stick it to them" for giving you the runaround. 🤞🏼🤞🏼

[Moonhawk]

Nailed it. 

If I don’t get it, the other person walks on water or I was never actually being considered in the first place. 

Will update with more details after work. 

[Catwoman]

28 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

Nailed it. 

If I don’t get it, the other person walks on water or I was never actually being considered in the first place. 

Will update with more details after work. 

YAY!!!

I'm so glad, because this way, if you don't get the job, you will know that it was their plan all along (and can react accordingly.)

I hope you get it -- and that they decide QUICKLY!

[Soror]

Ya! Good for you! Excited for the update.

[Katy]

DH’s company requires this sort of interview process even if they have the candidate chosen in the first round of interviews. To the point that if they don’t have enough inside qualified candidates they open it up to outsiders even if they know exactly who will get the job. In a way this is good because it keeps interviewing skills up for the internal candidates. But it’s definitely frustrating. 

That said, I’d be tempted to go nuclear at your final interview and out and out say that you were already offered this job and that no matter what you will not be staying in your current position that all of you know you are overqualified for. But whether that’s effective ir will backfire depends on the personalities of the people in the room.

[mommyoffive]

Yay girl!  Glad you rocked it.  I hope you find out really fast.

[Jaybee]

I'm trying to be patient as I wait to hear @Moonhawk's description of the interview, but she's probably at work again now, and I'm just...how do you expect me to get stuff done???😄🤪

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, Jaybee said:

I'm trying to be patient as I wait to hear @Moonhawk's description of the interview, but she's probably at work again now, and I'm just...how do you expect me to get stuff done???😄🤪

Same here! I keep checking this thread, impatiently.

Fingers and toes crossed!

[Moonhawk]

So to recap the interview and thoughts on it:

Started with a half hour skills test. It was making up a particular document for the public (typically made by Boss), I hadn't done it before, but I've dealt with enough of them that I was able to put it together pretty well. I was given a copy of mine after, and I compared to what we've done in the past, it's near a 100% match. So I think I did well on that.

The committee interview (45 mins) went really well. They still opened with the "nice to meet you in person" handshakes when I came in, and I was reminded by HR before I walked in that I would be treated "like any other candidate." So mostly went along with that. Answered all of the questions well (it helps I know their personalities...), all answers were confident and I didn't flub anything. The only one I didn't feel great about was the first question, asking me based on the description of the job what I thought would be the most challenging part of the job for me; I didn't have the posting in front of me, so I said that from my memory, I was most unsure about what would be expected in helping the boss with  "the overall direction of the department" and that I had intended to ask them more about that when I could. HR at one point did ask me to keep my answers shorter, which was easy enough to do. I spoke a bit faster but I think it sounded more in control and to the point so it helped overall. They asked about time management, large projects I've handled in the past, mistakes made and how I've handled them, and a few other questions (10 in all).

The last question was "What strengths do you think you would bring to this role to make you successful?"  (mostly word for word there). I said that to answer this one I'd have to break down the Chinese wall or whatever they wanted to call it, and talk about how I do know them and the department already. I got a crash course in the entire organization's personnel, developed relationships with the directors, know who we work with outside the organization, the culture, the workload and so much else that simply couldn't be learned so quickly in any other way. It would be invaluable to help the department overall especially if the goals the Boss mentioned earlier in the interview were going to be something I directly worked on. Felt I did really well on that in particular. 

For my own questions part, I asked if the department would be changing directions as alluded to in the posting, or if this was more of an "onward and upward" type of direction where it wasn't changing as much as getting better at what it does. Boss outlined some changes he wanted to see in the department's responsibilities, so that was interesting to see; all indications at the boots level says we should be handling less since we are (assumedly) moving from a 4-person to 3-person department, but his answer makes it seems we would actually be taking on more work -- hopefully his plans include more automation.

I also asked what skills or qualities they were prioritizing in an ideal candidate. Boss started and said he was looking for someone who could step into his place during his absence and who would be comfortable working with him closely to restructure the department and wouldn't be afraid to speak up with ideas and opinions through that process. 2nd person on the panel (kind of Second Big Boss?), after a bit of stuttering, laughed and said they were looking to keep Boss happy, that they wanted someone who could help him manage the department, but what matters is he's happy with the choice. 3rd person (HR) said "ditto."

Throughout the vibe was very positive. After the first couple questions everyone was relaxed and very open to the interview and discussion, I was very happy with the atmosphere and interaction. 

After the committee interview it was moved to a 1:1 interview with just Boss (35 min). He gave me an overview of the department from his perspective (mostly already known info) and then talked more in depth about what projects would become immediate responsibilities of the Second. I asked for more in depth understanding of the changes/directions he's looking to implement and the timeline. I asked him what he thought the most challenging part of the job would be: he though that the volume of work would be the hardest part of it, but that I already know how the workload fluctuates. I replied yes, sometimes it's a fire hose, and you have to be thirsty. He laughed and said exactly and that he wasn't concerned about my ability to handle it as much as it would be the biggest challenge.

Our time was up and HR took me out to the lobby and thanked me for my time. The other candidate was sitting there so I was let go kind of abruptly, I didn't really have a chance to say much, without being rude about it. 

I was not given any indication of when to hear back from them or next steps. I'm assuming that was last-round interview based off previous experience. I'm wondering if I was treated the same as the other candidate in this regard, with being given information. [For comparison: when first hired, during the in person interview I was told I'd hear back within the week, got a phone call asking for references before I walked all the way to my car in the lot, and got a call 2 hours later with the offer.]

On a funny note, my Apple Watch gave me a notification about 10 minutes into the skills test that my heart rate was elevated without activity, I'm still new to the watch and thought it was a fun little addition to the day.

Today (day after the interview), nothing has been said about it. I feel great about the interview but the longer it's being drawn out the less I see my chances. Starting to make plans about The Conversation when I'm told I don't get it, lol. But I still have hope and I'm staying positive and cheerful in the office, playing the game of nothing's different. 

I've started applying to other places. We had the realization that this job is the only thing tying us to the area, so I'm expanding my area for searching and looking at remote also. 

[Moonhawk]

12 hours ago, Jaybee said:

I'm trying to be patient as I wait to hear @Moonhawk's description of the interview, but she's probably at work again now, and I'm just...how do you expect me to get stuff done???😄🤪

11 hours ago, Spryte said:

Same here! I keep checking this thread, impatiently.

Fingers and toes crossed!

Sorry sorry! I came home last night, told DH about the interview, told him I needed to do some work (ie, post here, lol), and sat down on the couch with the laptop. I fell asleep before I opened up a web browser, LOL. I hadn't realized how much energy the day took out of me!

[Catwoman]

It sounds like the interview went really well, so if they hire the other person, it's only because they assume you'll stay and cover the front desk job, which would be a truly rotten thing for them to do, and would seriously reflect on your boss's character. 

Were you able to see how long the other candidate's interview lasted, or see the person after the interview was over to try and gauge their confidence level?

Keeping my hopes up for you, and hoping they make a decision SOON. It's so hard to wait and pretend like you're not anxious! I'm glad you're applying for other jobs -- it will help keep your mind off of this.

[mommyoffive]

Still sending lots of good thoughts your way.

[Spryte]

40 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Still sending lots of good thoughts your way.

Yes, this! Thinking of you, and hoping for good news soon.

[fraidycat]

Fingers crossed for you.

[Moonhawk]

12 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Were you able to see how long the other candidate's interview lasted, or see the person after the interview was over to try and gauge their confidence level?

Exact same timings as mine, except i think I got 5 extra minutes with Boss 1:1 and she got 5 extra minutes with the committee (probably because i asked less questions to the committee).  

I didn’t feel intimidated by the vibes I felt whenever they passed my desk, it didn’t seem like they were trying to “wine and dine” as much in terms of effusive warmth, and I didn’t feel that from her either. 

But, I am not sure why they would delay a decision or what they are waiting on to make a decision. My brain says they may have offered her the job, or are planning to, and not telling me until she accepts/rejects. But, there may be other things outstanding. 

They discussed as a committee together for about an hour after the other candidate left. There are no other things added to the calendar for them, and really no opportunity for them to meet for another week at least (vacations, conferences, etc). —> I think they’ve made a decision or are mostly there. So now i just wait and continue applying to other places. 

DH is no longer sure he wants me to take the position even if offered; he thinks i should prioritize another place now that he realizes we don’t need to stay around here. But, title wise and pay wise this would be hard to turn down, so he isn’t pushing it, just letting me know he’s ok either way. 

[mommyoffive]

what day was the other person's interview?

[Moonhawk]

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

what day was the other person's interview?

Tuesday, immediately after mine; I walked out, she walked in. 

[Catwoman]

@Moonhawk It is clear to me that you are going to need to work on your inconspicuous eavesdropping skills.

If you had been a better “listener” during and after the other candidate’s interview, you might already have all of the answers you need right now. 😉 

[vonfirmath]

9 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

Exact same timings as mine, except i think I got 5 extra minutes with Boss 1:1 and she got 5 extra minutes with the committee (probably because i asked less questions to the committee).  

I didn’t feel intimidated by the vibes I felt whenever they passed my desk, it didn’t seem like they were trying to “wine and dine” as much in terms of effusive warmth, and I didn’t feel that from her either. 

But, I am not sure why they would delay a decision or what they are waiting on to make a decision. My brain says they may have offered her the job, or are planning to, and not telling me until she accepts/rejects. But, there may be other things outstanding. 

They discussed as a committee together for about an hour after the other candidate left. There are no other things added to the calendar for them, and really no opportunity for them to meet for another week at least (vacations, conferences, etc). —> I think they’ve made a decision or are mostly there. So now i just wait and continue applying to other places. 

DH is no longer sure he wants me to take the position even if offered; he thinks i should prioritize another place now that he realizes we don’t need to stay around here. But, title wise and pay wise this would be hard to turn down, so he isn’t pushing it, just letting me know he’s ok either way. 

I was beginning to wonder if the bad taste of how this was handled when the job was promised to you in the first place would end up tainting things even if you took the job.

 

[BusyMom5]

Hope you hear back soon- I keep checking in for an update 😅

FWIW, I do think I would have a 2 week notice typed up and ready.  If they didn't give me the job, I'd hand in the notice immediately- like walk to my desk, pull out a folder and hand it to Boss.  

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, BusyMom5 said:

Hope you hear back soon- I keep checking in for an update 😅

FWIW, I do think I would have a 2 week notice typed up and ready.  If they didn't give me the job, I'd hand in the notice immediately- like walk to my desk, pull out a folder and hand it to Boss.  

Yes, I agree. This whole rigmarole is ridiculous.

[QueenCat]

16 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

Hope you hear back soon- I keep checking in for an update 😅

FWIW, I do think I would have a 2 week notice typed up and ready.  If they didn't give me the job, I'd hand in the notice immediately- like walk to my desk, pull out a folder and hand it to Boss.  

Definitely. 

[KungFuPanda]

On 8/18/2022 at 3:45 PM, Catwoman said:

@Moonhawk It is clear to me that you are going to need to work on your inconspicuous eavesdropping skills.

If you had been a better “listener” during and after the other candidate’s interview, you might already have all of the answers you need right now. 😉 

This was an amateur move. @Moonhawkworks there. She should have planted a tape recorder in that room then immediately typed up a transcript for us. 

[Moonhawk]

Officially didn’t get it. Will update fully tonight. Just need to hold it together for now. 

[Frances]

I’m so sorry, that really sucks. I hope you find a much better job soon at a place that fully appreciates your talents and abilities.

[Soror]

I'm sorry, that's bullshit. I hope you can quit soon and leave them high and dry. I think they've been stringing you along. 

[Scarlett]

Wow, that is terrible of them!  I hope you are able,to quit soon. They do not deserve you!

[stephanier.1765]

I am so sorry and I am so mad for you right now! That's just a load of BS and I hope you told them so. Ugh! Big hugs!

[Corraleno]

Oh no, I'm so sorry! They are complete slimeballs and I hope you find a totally awesome job that pays much better and I hope their stupid company flounders and sinks without you. @#$%^(*^%!!!

[alisoncooks]

That really stinks. They totally misrepresented the path your position would take. And I kinda feel like they never planned to promote you, but still had you jump through all those hoops. Poor form. 

[Soror]

this seemed appropriate--

[Spryte]

Oh no.

They don’t deserve to have you.

 

[Anne]

That just stinks, Moonhawk!!!

Anne

[AmandaVT]

Ugh - I'm so sorry! You are too good for them and I hope you find an amazing position!

[elegantlion]

Wow, I am sorry. Please know you have the sympathy of us all. They don't deserve you as an employee.