Religious Leaders: a Poll

[barnwife]

We have just learned that our priest is leaving. We have had a lot of priests over the last 10 years. FWIW, we are Catholic, and yes, I know there is a priest shortage. In discussing this with someone they more or less said "everyone is sharing the burden of the shortage equally." 

So it got me curious how often other churches (of any type) get new priests/pastors/rabbis/whatever you call this position in your church. 

[freesia]

I put no for 3, but in many Protestant churches there is usually a gap between pastors while the search process is on-going. Sometimes there is an interim. It’s seen a good to have a break in order to ease the transition. So my no was more a “no unwelcome or unplanned gap.”

I know churches who are having a hard time finding youth pastors right now. 

[teachermom2834]

Are you a very small parish? The smallest parishes in our diocese have the most turnover/share priests while the larger parishes have their pastors stay put longer. We do not have a shortage in our area, though. Of course we always want more but all of our parishes are served.

Edited May 6, 2022 by teachermom2834

[scholastica]

Are you in a rural area or smaller diocese? I’m in a major metro area with a large Catholic population. We are just now getting to the point of stretched too thin. We’ve had consolidation in the past, but are now down to the point where we need to do a major reorganization of our archdiocese. It’s going to hurt.
 

[gardenmom5]

We have a lay (unpaid) ministry, so they have a job that gives them their income.    Usually, the bishop (local congregation) serves for five years before being replaced.   The leader immediately above Bishops (over several congregations) usually serves for ten years.

Either can end up moving for their employment.  (not common where I am - but it does happen.)

[barnwife]

29 minutes ago, scholastica said:

Are you in a rural area or smaller diocese? I’m in a major metro area with a large Catholic population. We are just now getting to the point of stretched too thin. We’ve had consolidation in the past, but are now down to the point where we need to do a major reorganization of our archdiocese. It’s going to hurt.
 

I just realized I didn't answer my own poll.

Yes, we are Catholic. In the last 10ish years, we have had 8ish priests. There may be more that I can't remember. We have had many periods of relying on visiting/substitute priests. I just don't believe this is normal/average, even for rural areas. And in my informal poll of people I know from around our diocese, it isn't. So, to hear that from a diocesan representative ("everybody shares the burden equally") makes this hurt more. So I wondered about the world at large, and if he could possibly be referring to that. 

FWIW, I've been through consolidation in various places (not just this current diocese). I agree it isn't easy, but it blows my mind there are places that have escaped this until now. 

[Teachaheart]

Our mosque had one imam for 15 years. Then we were without an imam for about 8 or 9 months. The new imam has been with us for less than a year so far. 

[Frances]

5 minutes ago, barnwife said:

I just realized I didn't answer my own poll.

Yes, we are Catholic. In the last 10ish years, we have had 8ish priests. There may be more that I can't remember. We have had many periods of relying on visiting/substitute priests. I just don't believe this is normal/average, even for rural areas. And in my informal poll of people I know from around our diocese, it isn't. So, to hear that from a diocesan representative ("everybody shares the burden equally") makes this hurt more. So I wondered about the world at large, and if he could possibly be referring to that. 

FWIW, I've been through consolidation in various places (not just this current diocese). I agree it isn't easy, but it blows my mind there are places that have escaped this until now. 

Certainly not normal where my family lives in the rural Midwest. It seems like their priests stay for at least four of five years, even when the parish doesn’t like them and wants them gone. These are priests that serve multiple small churches at the same time. Except for vacation coverage, I don’t recall family members ever mentioning having visiting priests. It seems like the new priest assignment is always made in advance of the old one leaving.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Frances

[barnwife]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

Certainly not normal where my family lives in the rural Midwest. It seems like their priests stay for at least four of five years, even when the parish doesn’t like them and wants them gone. These are priests that serve multiple small churches at the same time. Except for vacation coverage, I don’t recall family members ever mentioning having visiting priests. It seems like the new priest assignment is always made in advance of the old one leaving.

The last priest we had who stayed longer than our current priest was here when our oldest, who will be 12 later this year, was born. He retired shortly after DS was born. I can't think of one single time since then a priest was assigned in advance, because the leaving is always sudden. That results in weeks/months of random priests. 

And yes, we share our priest with another parish (and have basically since that priest retired). 

 

[teachermom2834]

Why are the priests leaving suddenly? In my experience the only times priests left suddenly it was very dramatic. Typically they are moved around in July when the bishop reassigns people.

So this isn’t just having priests reassigned every couple years?  This is priests suddenly leaving. That is very strange to me and would be upsetting. 

[Pamela H in Texas]

I can't answer.  We (Jehovah's Witnesses) have elders who shepherd the congregations around the world. There is a body of them in each congregation. They are not a paid position.  They have secular jobs.  Anyway, so though Christian, I couldn't answer the questions.

[barnwife]

17 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Why are the priests leaving suddenly? In my experience the only times priests left suddenly it was very dramatic. Typically they are moved around in July when the bishop reassigns people.

So this isn’t just having priests reassigned every couple years?  This is priests suddenly leaving. That is very strange to me and would be upsetting. 

Let's see, one basically didn't want to be at our particular parish and thus was reassigned. Most have been priests from other diocese (internationally) who have been recalled home due to need there shortly after arriving here (one was probably my favorite priest ever. Sadly, he passed away not long after returning to his home diocese, so we wouldn't have had him much longer anyway.) Why that seems to only happen to priests from our parish is anybody's guess. One priest left after an allegation of abuse (from before his time here), which remains unsubstantiated, AFAIK. Our current priest is leaving the priesthood entirely. 

So really, only 2 have been associated with drama. 

It absolutely is not just the regular reassigning. And I'm tired of it and want a known reliable priest assigned here, while other parishes take their turn with high turnover. That, apparently, isn't possible because "everyone shares the burden equally."

[teachermom2834]

2 minutes ago, barnwife said:

Let's see, one basically didn't want to be at our particular parish and thus was reassigned. Most have been priests from other diocese (internationally) who have been recalled home due to need there shortly after arriving here (one was probably my favorite priest ever. Sadly, he passed away not long after returning to his home diocese, so we wouldn't have had him much longer anyway.) Why that seems to only happen to priests from our parish is anybody's guess. One priest left after an allegation of abuse (from before his time here), which remains unsubstantiated, AFAIK. Our current priest is leaving the priesthood entirely. 

So really, only 2 have been associated with drama. 

It absolutely is not just the regular reassigning. And I'm tired of it and want a known reliable priest assigned here, while other parishes take their turn with high turnover. That, apparently, isn't possible because "everyone shares the burden equally."

I’m sorry. That is really unusual, in my experience, and would be very frustrating. Some stability for your parish should be a priority. 

[Loowit]

When we joined our last church (interdenominational) the head pastor had been there for quite a few years.  He retired about a year after we joined and one of the other pastors at the church took over until the search committee found a new one.  It took over two years.  We had left by then.

[Murphy101]

We have have 4 pastors, associate pastors are usually new priests getting their feet wet for a year or maybe 2 tops before pastoring their own parish.  Most of the priests in these diocese have 2-3 parishes they serve.

[Ellie]

I am a member of quite a large Catholic parish. Our bishop moves priests around every two years, sometimes more often if there's a need. We generally have three full-time priests, one of whom is the actual pastor (the other two are "parochial vicars"), and a  priest "in residence" (retired) who still keeps busy (he was pastor previously, for something like 20 years!). Our previous pastor was here for 10 years.

[vonfirmath]

3 hours ago, barnwife said:

We have just learned that our priest is leaving. We have had a lot of priests over the last 10 years. FWIW, we are Catholic, and yes, I know there is a priest shortage. In discussing this with someone they more or less said "everyone is sharing the burden of the shortage equally." 

So it got me curious how often other churches (of any type) get new priests/pastors/rabbis/whatever you call this position in your church. 

I was not sure how to answer question 3. We spent about 10 months choosing our pastor after our pastor of 30 years retired. But during that 9 months we had an interim who filled the pulpit/took care of things in the church and I presume the interim counts?

Edited May 6, 2022 by vonfirmath

[Danae]

I’m United Methodist.  Pastors are appointed to churches and everyone who’s moving/retiring/starting ministry moves on July 1, unless there’s an unplanned reason that someone has to leave mid-year.  When that happens a retired pastor often fills in for the rest of the appointment year.  (Actually moving everyone takes about two weeks, but everyone’s official start date is July 1).

[mom2scouts]

My church has a lead pastor and then multiple other pastors who have a specific focus like adult ministry, kid ministry, mission/outreach. When our last pastor left to move back and be lead pastor of his very large former church, one of our other pastors became lead pastor, so we never went without. We are looking for a youth pastor.

As another poster said, in my experience, when pastors leave suddenly it often means something else is going on behind the scenes. That doesn't always mean moral failure, but could be goals that don't align with the goals of that church or poor/overbearing leadership above the person (which could explain things like leaving the ministry or wanting to be assigned to another parish).

[purpleowl]

We have recently changed churches.

Previous church (Orthodox Presbyterian): The pastor who'd been there for...a long time? Retired in I think 2015. At that point we had an associate pastor, who had been at the church since 2009, and he became the lead (only) pastor after the other one retired. He is still there now.

New church (nondenominational Reformed): There are four pastors on staff (much bigger than previous church), but I assume you are talking about the senior pastor. It has a history similar to our previous church, though I don't know exactly how long ago or under what circumstances the previous senior pastor left. But the current senior pastor was on staff in a different position before taking on his current role.

So in both places, at some point in the last 10-15 years, one long-time pastor left and the position went to someone who had already been in a different pastoral position at the church. 

I'm sorry your church is dealing with such high turnover. I hope you end up with someone who can remain there for a longer stretch this time.

[ktgrok]

I answered based on my current and previous churches, which happily have not had any change over. But before that, the large Catholic parishes I attended (one was our regular parish, one was closer to the house, but not as well run so we only went there when running late), three priests left. 

BUT they were large parishes, so it wasn't the only priest, so never without one. One retired (the closer parish, and was replaced quickly but there was another assisting priest there already to pick up slack in between. Looking at their website that priest has since left and they have another one now.  The other parish, our main parish, had a young priest who was the lowest on the experience totem pole leave to take basically a promotion at another parish. He cut his teeth with us after seminary and then left for a full pastor role. Then a few years later the head priest was made a Bishop, so he left, and a new one came. There was no gap between one leaving and the other arriving, in fact pretty sure the new priest came before the old one took on his new role. But this is a well to do area, big campus, school, etc. 

[SKL]

Well it was a bit hard to answer, because we normally have 2 pastors.  My kids and I have been attending this church for 12 years.  The assistant pastor got his job just about the time we started, and the then lead pastor had been at the church for much longer.  The lead pastor retired several years ago.  There was a gap of some months between lead pastors (IIRC), but the assistant pastor was and is still there.  (Assistant Pastor was offered and declined the lead pastor position - his mom was dying at the time so that may have been a factor.)

I don't know the facts, but IME it is not common for pastors in our synod to move around a lot.  It seems that once they find a church they like, they stay until they retire.  That said, we did recruit our current lead pastor from another church, so obviously there is some turnover going on.

[73349]

I answered based on the church I have now--very steady--but my previous church had a revolving door of ministers and assistant ministers. There was no higher church authority moving them around, but IMO the congregation had significant... I'll say systemic challenges, which became evident to me when I was part of the lay leadership... that affected the ability to hire and retain effective ordained ministers. The timing of turnover is predictable in that denomination (announcements/searches in Feb.-Mar. and new person settled usually July-Aug.) except in unusual circumstances, which we did have once.

DH's church is Catholic and has experienced multiple changes of priests recently.

Edited May 6, 2022 by 73349

[kbutton]

I didn't read the other replies, but we have had a lot of pastors because we are in a large-ish church (not a mega church, just large). They have multiple pastors for multiple things, and they've not ever left all at once, so no gaps. We have had gaps due to deaths, people moving on, firing, etc. in specific areas--turnovers in youth pastors, mission pastors, or music pastors, for instance. 

In our old church, the lead pastor was more controlling in some ways (not meant to be an overly negative or positive spin with that terminology--it had both positives and negatives), so when he retired, there was a gap with an interim. The youth pastor was still there, but he was really enmeshed in youth stuff. I can't remember if the interim was hired before the first one retired, or if we had special speakers for a bit. It's been too long. That church was smaller. They intentionally hired an interim because the pastor that retired was the founding pastor (45 or so years before!), so anyone new was going to automatically be different enough to be jarring and to be stymied by such drastic change. Also, while they'd had a lot of associate pastors, the lead pastor had not really shared responsibility for a lot of things or let them lead with their strengths, so people were really not used to a variety of leadership styles. 

[wintermom]

We went to a parish where the priest was granted permission by the arch bishop to stay for about 12 years. Usually there is a change in priest every 4 - 6 years, but it really depends on many factors. 

[TravelingChris]

We are in the largest PCUSA (and the most conservative too) in our Presbytery and we are, I think, the only one who hasn't had any time we haven't had at least one pastor.  We have 2 full time usually.  We have been at the same church for 11 years come August and in that time, our first associate pastor decided to change directions and go into missionary work, and while it took a while to get an associate, we had a few temporary associate pastors.  Then a few years after we got a new associate pastor, our main pastor retired and our congregation decided to promote the associate to the main pastorate.  Then we got another few subsititutes for a while as we searched for another associate pastor.  We got one in Spring 2019. I think.  So we have been back to 2 full time pastors for a few years now.

[vonfirmath]

3 hours ago, kbutton said:

I didn't read the other replies, but we have had a lot of pastors because we are in a large-ish church (not a mega church, just large). They have multiple pastors for multiple things, and they've not ever left all at once, so no gaps. We have had gaps due to deaths, people moving on, firing, etc. in specific areas--turnovers in youth pastors, mission pastors, or music pastors, for instance. 

In our old church, the lead pastor was more controlling in some ways (not meant to be an overly negative or positive spin with that terminology--it had both positives and negatives), so when he retired, there was a gap with an interim. The youth pastor was still there, but he was really enmeshed in youth stuff. I can't remember if the interim was hired before the first one retired, or if we had special speakers for a bit. It's been too long. That church was smaller. They intentionally hired an interim because the pastor that retired was the founding pastor (45 or so years before!), so anyone new was going to automatically be different enough to be jarring and to be stymied by such drastic change. Also, while they'd had a lot of associate pastors, the lead pastor had not really shared responsibility for a lot of things or let them lead with their strengths, so people were really not used to a variety of leadership styles. 

Yes when a pastor has been there for a long time, a gap is good to give the new pastor a fair shake

When it happened at our last church they told us to expect a gap of about the same number of months as the previous pastor was there. So I was very surprised when they found a new one in 10 months!

 

[ktgrok]

I will say when I was looking at other Episcopal churches in the area several had interim pastors and were looking for a permanent one. I've been told this is partly because the Central Florida diocese is one of the most conservative in the nation, and most graduating priests don't want to work here. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

Our Catholic parish has had the same priest for over 20 years.  But he is in his eighties, and there are definitely parish consolidations coming our way, so who knows what the future will hold.

[Lecka]

Not my current church.

But I have previously attended 1) a church that room 2 years with a search committee, then a “searched” pastor declined the position, then it ended up being 3 years between pastors.  The new pastor was wonderful and had been there 10+ years now.  The interim pastor was a very loved church member who was a hospice chaplain and didn’t want to give that up for the time commitment of leading a church.  To some extent there was hope he would change his mind for a while.  Then there just was a lack of planning that was difficult.  Another interim pastor came who had “rescued” a church in a city one hour away that had been in danger of closing, and then rebounded, and our church went the same way.

And 2, I attended a rural church that couldn’t get an ordained minister but we had a wonderful lay minister from a neighboring community.  She definitely basically googled sermons off the Internet (or maybe there is some online resource) — but nobody cared.  We were happy to have her.  She was a very caring person.  And — we could not get an ordained minister there, it was a declining population, unfortunately, in the whole are.  And my family left because of a lack of opportunity, too — not the only reason but a big reason.  My husband and I would have been fine, but it would have been an abysmal place for us to launch our kids from.