Ukraine

[YaelAldrich]

My husband (who studies nuclear plant siting) says all it would take is one bullet, grenade, or shell to hit spent nuclear waste and they would have a dirty bomb. He says most waste is not stored in secure sites nor are the sites armored. He's seen waste stored in plastic sheds. He's really not happy right now.

[Starr]

Sometimes the sad face is not enough.

[Melissa in Australia]

According to BBC the fire has been put out

[Melissa in Australia]

Also according to the BBC fighting around the power plant have stopped

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60532634

Edited March 4, 2022 by Melissa in Australia

[Ausmumof3]

Russian forces now have control of the power plant. I guess maybe the safer option was simply to put it into shut down mode and hand it over than risk engaging with an enemy that is happy to shell a nuclear power plant.

[chiguirre]

Anyone who hasn't heard the Former President's quote about China invading Taiwan on the Maria Bartiromo show should google that asap. It's disturbing but truly essential information about where we stand. It's posted on the Politics Social Group Ukraine thread if you have access to that.

[Ausmumof3]

Apparently a ceasefire is happening around a city called Mariupol to allow for the evacuation of civilians. It’s population is around 466,000.

[Melissa in Australia]

Russian forces declare a ceasefire to allow humanitarian corridors out of the Ukrainian cities of Mariupol and Volnovakha.https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/4/russia-ukraine-moscow-blocking-access-to-facebook-liveblog

 

Russian news organisation RIA says the ceasefire today will last for seven hours. There is a five hour window for civilians to leave Mariupol https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-05/russia-ukraine-war-invasion-live-updates/100884820

 

Ukraine confirms humanitarian corridor https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-05/russia-ukraine-war-invasion-live-updates/100884820

The local council of the port city of Mariupol, one of the cities named in Russia's ceasefire order, has confirmed its citizens will be free to escape the war zone. 

The announcement came via Telegram, saying "it will be possible to leave the city by private transport."

"A huge request to all drivers leaving the city, to contribute as much as possible to the evacuation of the civilian population. Take people with you, fill vehicles as much as possible," the statement said.

The announcement said the evacuation would last over several days to allow everyone to exit the city. 

The announcement came with a warning that it was "strictly prohibited" to go off course from the evacuation routes.

It said buses would also depart from three locations in the city to help people leave.

Mayor Vadim Boychenko confirmed he would be among the evacuees

With Russian troops surrounding the city, "there is no other option but to allow residents, that is you and me, to leave Mariupol safely," he said.

[Melissa in Australia]

seems like the temp ceasefire to evacuate people has failed already, less than 2 hours after it started.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60532634

We just posted reports that the ceasefire was not holding at the end of the evacuation route out of Mariupol.

We are now hearing the city itself is still under shelling.

[Faith-manor]

4 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

seems like the temp ceasefire to evacuate people has failed already, less than 2 hours after it started.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60532634

We just posted reports that the ceasefire was not holding at the end of the evacuation route out of Mariupol.

We are now hearing the city itself is still under shelling.

I never believed it was a real cease fire for humanitarian efforts. I always figured that what Putin was doing was drawing people out of the city so they would be sitting ducks and there would be fewer of them to dig in and fight back. I am not sure why anyone trusts Hitler 2.0 to do anything except commit war crimes.

[Carol in Cal.]

I also heard that Putin has said that the sanctions are a declaration of war from us.  In which case we might as well go in, and sooner rather than later, because it’s not going to matter in terms of the Will We Be At Actual War question, but it IS going to matter to the Ukrainians.

[Farrar]

Putin said that the sanctions against Russia "threaten Ukraine's national sovereignty." 

In other news, the raging fire in your kitchen would like you to know that water might damage your property. 

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Putin said that the sanctions against Russia "threaten Ukraine's national sovereignty." 

In other news, the raging fire in your kitchen would like you to know that water might damage your property. 

Actually, he said that the sanctions are “akin to a declaration of war.”  

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-western-sanctions-are-akin-declaration-war-2022-03-05/?taid=6223777318c5730001d4b16c&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

The threat to Ukraine’s national sovereignty is from Russia’s attack on them.  

 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I also heard that Putin has said that the sanctions are a declaration of war from us.  In which case we might as well go in, and sooner rather than later, because it’s not going to matter in terms of the Will We Be At Actual War question, but it IS going to matter to the Ukrainians.

While they may appear to be technicalities, these things do matter. No NATO country has actually declared war on Russia, something Congress has to do here, and other national governing bodies must do in Europe. Putin knows this. No authorizations to use force have been granted anywhere but Ukraine.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Melissa in Australia]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I also heard that Putin has said that the sanctions are a declaration of war from us.  In which case we might as well go in, and sooner rather than later, because it’s not going to matter in terms of the Will We Be At Actual War question, but it IS going to matter to the Ukrainians.

It would matter to the whole world very quickly if your country did that. It would I am afraid mean the end. 😞

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

It would matter to the whole world very quickly if your country did that. It would I am afraid mean the end. 😞

Doing what the warmongers suggest would only exacerbate the problems. There is nothing much more that can be done to help Ukraine within the bounds of international law. Going in with boots on the ground and planes in the sky would have the effect of increasing the size of the battlefield, exponentially increasing the number of casualties, and giving Putin the rallying cry he so desperately needs to convince even the internal opponents that the west is really to blame.  Is China leaping in to reign in Russia? No. No it's not. It might be more useful to expend a little energy pressuring them since they still have some robust channels open. We didn't go in with planes and soldiers to rescue Syrians. We didn't go in to rescue Chechens. We didn't go in to rescue Georgians when their countries were attacked by Russia either. This is obviously tragic and awful, and dangerous. We don't need to make it even more so by disregarding the meaning/import of our treaty obligations.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Farrar]

3 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Actually, he said that the sanctions are “akin to a declaration of war.”  

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-western-sanctions-are-akin-declaration-war-2022-03-05/?taid=6223777318c5730001d4b16c&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

The threat to Ukraine’s national sovereignty is from Russia’s attack on them.  

 

And that by threatening Russia, the West are the ones that are endangering Ukrainian statehood and sovereignty. Putin is trying to say that if Ukraine ceases to be a country, it's because everyone threatened Russia not because Russia literally invaded them. 

[mlktwins]

Mastercard and Visa are halting all Russian operations.

[Lisa]

1 hour ago, mlktwins said:

Mastercard and Visa are halting all Russian operations.

Samsung and Paypal also suspend business in Russia.

[Sneezyone]

Brittney Griner has been detained in Russia. If she actually had canabis oil vape pens in her possession, I'm not sure how/why the U.S. is supposed to fix that kind of stupid. There's a war about to break out and your weed is more important than your safe passage?https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/sports/basketball/russia-brittney-griner.html

Edited March 6, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Faith-manor]

8 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Brittney Griner has been detained in Russia. If she actually had canabis oil vape pens in her possession, I'm not sure how/why the U.S. is supposed to fix that kind of stupid. There's a war about to break out and your weed is more important than your safe passage?https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/sports/basketball/russia-brittney-griner.html

If this is true, that is one epic level of idiocracy.

On a good day, Ethan Hunt isn't coming for her. And this is a very, very bad day to be stupid.

I hope it is false. I hate to think of her being this dumb. However, the alternative may be worse, that they are holding her as punishment for us arming Ukraine.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Faith-manor

[Melissa in Australia]

another evacuation ceasefire just started. hope it lasts longer than yesterday

[Ausmumof3]

I looked on the map and I’m trying to work out where they’re trying to get people out to? It looks like Mariupol is right on the Russian border and many other the cities close by are already taken or disputed?

[Eilonwy]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I looked on the map and I’m trying to work out where they’re trying to get people out to? It looks like Mariupol is right on the Russian border and many other the cities close by are already taken or disputed?

I read yesterday that there were plans to get them initially to the city of Zaporizhzhia and from there, to the western part of the country.  I don’t know if the same corridor is to be used today. 

[Faith-manor]

According to the AP, Russia broke the 2nd ceasefire within two hours. So more sitting ducks. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice.....

As for the US involvement in all this, Panem has an important word for its districts in Europe, "May the odds be ever in your favor." 

 

 

[Frances]

If this doesn’t get Americans to see the severe danger of the wave of propaganda, conspiracy theories, misinformation, and claims of “fake news” that have taken over our country the last six year and actually do something about it, I don’t think anything will. Can you imagine being in Ukraine right now and your family in Russia believes the lies coming from the Russian government more than the eye witness accounts of family members in Ukraine? 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-russia-families.html

[Mom_to3]

17 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Brittney Griner has been detained in Russia. If she actually had canabis oil vape pens in her possession, I'm not sure how/why the U.S. is supposed to fix that kind of stupid. There's a war about to break out and your weed is more important than your safe passage?https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/sports/basketball/russia-brittney-griner.html

As far as I understand, she may have been arrested prior to the start of the war. But, yes, this kind of thing happens to a lot of Americans in certain parts of the world without the US government getting involved.

[SKL]

We can't spend the rest of eternity letting Russia do whatever it wants because they have nukes.  I hope someone is working hard on a plan to disarm that power.  I don't care how politically incorrect that sounds.

[Sneezyone]

Their economy will be in shambles in weeks, not months. Their investment rating is practically one step above junk. This isn't going to last forever. Russia can't afford it.

That doesn't mean there won't be pain, or that people won't be hurt in the process. Or that Putin won't try extraordinary means to provoke a NATO response. It means if he starts it, he can't and won't finish it alive. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Sneezyone

[DoraBora]

Russia outlines its terms for peace:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html

"Dmitry Peskov [Kremlin spokesperson] said Moscow was demanding that Ukraine cease military action, change its constitution to enshrine neutrality, acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states."

[Faith-manor]

38 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

Russia outlines its terms for peace:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-115703035.html

"Dmitry Peskov [Kremlin spokesperson] said Moscow was demanding that Ukraine cease military action, change its constitution to enshrine neutrality, acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states."

Even if Ukraine did that, I would NOT trust Moscow. Putin just wants them to lay down their arms so he carpet bomb them, and have the occupied cities mowed down by the military already there, and take the whole country without more resistance. They would be dumb to fall for it. And of course "constitutionally neutral" also means no NATO in the future, and watching him grab Moldova but being "neutral" on that. It also means being "neutral" when he goes after Finland and Sweden "not in NATO" so watch countries face a similar fate and not voice an opinion or side allow other countries to stage from Ukraine.

Isolate and destroy. That is his tactic.

[DoraBora]

9 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Even if Ukraine did that, I would NOT trust Moscow. Putin just wants them to lay down their arms so he carpet bomb them, and have the occupied cities mowed down by the military already there, and take the whole country without more resistance. They would be dumb to fall for it. And of course "constitutionally neutral" also means no NATO in the future, and watching him grab Moldova but being "neutral" on that. It also means being "neutral" when he goes after Finland and Sweden "not in NATO" so watch countries face a similar fate and not voice an opinion or side allow other countries to stage from Ukraine.

Isolate and destroy. That is his tactic.

Oh, I understand that they're demanding a lot, but I suppose Russia could carpet bomb Ukraine now.

Donetsk, one of the cities mentioned in the terms is way into Ukraine's interior.  They evidently already operate, as I understand it, as a separate sort of city-state.  The separatist movement in that area has been ongoing for a number of years.

I understand not seeing Moscow as a trustworthy agent in any agreement, and the terms offered may not be practical, but if there's to be end to this situation in the near future, they'll have to "trust" the Russians at least a little.  

[AnotherNewName]

4 minutes ago, DoraBora said:

Oh, I understand that they're demanding a lot, but I suppose Russia could carpet bomb Ukraine now.

Donetsk, one of the cities mentioned in the terms is way into Ukraine's interior.  They evidently already operate, as I understand it, as a separate sort of city-state.  The separatist movement in that area has been ongoing for a number of years.

I understand not seeing Moscow as a trustworthy agent in any agreement, and the terms offered may not be practical, but if there's to be end to this situation in the near future, they'll have to "trust" the Russians at least a little.  

One of the other requirements was that a prime minister be appointed (not elected) and this position would hold all the power, which would make Zelensky just a figurehead.  Can we guess who would get to pick the new PM?

Accepting this deal would effectively be full capitulation and would end with Ukraine being Russia's puppet state.

[Faith-manor]

18 minutes ago, AnotherNewName said:

One of the other requirements was that a prime minister be appointed (not elected) and this position would hold all the power, which would make Zelensky just a figurehead.  Can we guess who would get to pick the new PM?

Accepting this deal would effectively be full capitulation and would end with Ukraine being Russia's puppet state.

100% agreed, and I also think it means capitulation with the understanding they still intend to mass murder every single citizen who carried a gun in resistance so the country is absolutely ravished. Russia is the two times winner of war crimes, "Let's shell civilians evacuating cities after we said we wouldn't". Better to die holding out for what you believe, than surrendering to the slaughter because the slaughter is a given. Their grimmest and only hope is Russia is suggesting it because maybe someone in the inner circle around Putin is pressuring him to end it. I don't personally think that is likely, but better to hope for that then capitulate at this point.

[prairiewindmomma]

I heard on NPR this morning that Russia is trying to take a second nuclear plant today in southern Ukraine. 

[DoraBora]

48 minutes ago, AnotherNewName said:

One of the other requirements was that a prime minister be appointed (not elected) and this position would hold all the power, which would make Zelensky just a figurehead.  Can we guess who would get to pick the new PM?

Accepting this deal would effectively be full capitulation and would end with Ukraine being Russia's puppet state.

Ftr, I'm not suggesting that they should accept Russia's terms.

I didn't see the point you mentioned above, but I thought the Ukrainian prime minister was already an appointed position (appointed the president).  The lack of authority for the president would of course be a problem.

ETA:  Can you cite your source on the bolded?

Edited March 7, 2022 by DoraBora
added question

[Pam in CT]

re trust in the "terms" Putin has currently extended

53 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Even if Ukraine did that, I would NOT trust Moscow. Putin just wants them to lay down their arms so he carpet bomb them, and have the occupied cities mowed down by the military already there, and take the whole country without more resistance. They would be dumb to fall for it. And of course "constitutionally neutral" also means no NATO in the future, and watching him grab Moldova but being "neutral" on that. It also means being "neutral" when he goes after Finland and Sweden "not in NATO" so watch countries face a similar fate and not voice an opinion or side allow other countries to stage from Ukraine.

Isolate and destroy. That is his tactic.

Folks in every direction are, understandably, spending a lot of speculation and time trying to psychoanalyze Putin, whether he's a "madman" v "coldly calculating sociopath"; whether if he gets what he wants in Ukraine he'll be "satisfied" v just start gearing up to take the Baltics next; and etc.  Much is at stake, and, also, no one knows.  (There are also pretty plausible reports (see Politics) that Peskov's official statement omitted another of Putin's required conditions: that while Zelensky can remain in office in a strictly pro forma role, friend-of-Putin friend-of-Firtash Yuriy Boyko will be installed as President with actual power, beholden to Putin.)

In any event.

Here's a data point we DO know as fact: twice in the last 36 hours, Putin has agreed to a ceasefire to permit civilians to leave. And twice in the last 36 hours, he's broken those ceasefires to resume shelling. On civilians.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

re trust in the "terms" Putin has currently extended

Folks in every direction are, understandably, spending a lot of speculation and time trying to psychoanalyze Putin, whether he's a "madman" v "coldly calculating sociopath"; whether if he gets what he wants in Ukraine he'll be "satisfied" v just start gearing up to take the Baltics next; and etc.  Much is at stake, and, also, no one knows.  (There are also pretty plausible reports (see Politics) that Peskov's official statement omitted another of Putin's required conditions: that while Zelensky can remain in office in a strictly pro forma role, friend-of-Putin friend-of-Firtash Yuriy Boyko will be installed as President with actual power, beholden to Putin.)

In any event.

Here's a data point we DO know as fact: twice in the last 36 hours, Putin has agreed to a ceasefire to permit civilians to leave. And twice in the last 36 hours, he's broken those ceasefires to resume shelling. On civilians.

He acts like he is negotiating from a position of strength. He’s not.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

It started like, "If you leave me alone, I'll be nice to you." Dude, you were already being left alone. No one wanted to be bothered with you.

Then, "You forced my hand so I have taken a hostage. Don't come any closer or I'll shoot you too!" Dude, you're the only one starting stuff. You look cray right now and if you go after the big boys, you die. Full stop.

Now, "If you give me what I want, I'll stop shooting." Dude, you have zero credibility. No one believes you.

It's like every bad hostage-taking movie ever made. The question isn't how this ends for Putin but when and whether he'll successfully make war criminals out of other nations' leaders in the process.

Everything that he doesn't like is "akin to a declaration of war" in which case NOTHING is a declaration of war and he knows it. He's grasping. 

[Pam in CT]

32 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It started like, "If you leave me alone, I'll be nice to you." Dude, you were already being left alone. No one wanted to be bothered with you.

Then, "You forced my hand so I have taken a hostage. Don't come any closer or I'll shoot you too!" Dude, you're the only one starting stuff. You look cray right now and if you go after the big boys, you die. Full stop.

Now, "If you give me what I want, I'll stop shooting." Dude, you have zero credibility. No one believes you.

It's like every bad hostage-taking movie ever made. The question isn't how this ends for Putin but when and whether he'll successfully make war criminals out of other nations' leaders in the process.

Everything that he doesn't like is "akin to a declaration of war" in which case NOTHING is a declaration of war and he knows it. He's grasping. 

Grasping, and also, still dangerous. Again like the cornered hostage-taker.

 

Anyone who claims to have a simple, "just do ______!!!!" hot take to this is not thinking beyond one round in a multiple-round game. Into which it is critically important that new players, China or Iran or currently unforeseen etc, choose to enter.

 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Grasping, and also, still dangerous. Again like the cornered hostage-taker.

 

Anyone who claims to have a simple, "just do ______!!!!" hot take to this is not thinking beyond one round in a multiple-round game. Into which it is critically important that new players, China or Iran or currently unforeseen etc, choose to enter.

 

ITA. At the same time (I'm still plowing through Molly's essay), thoughtful, well-considered and tactically aggressive moves (like blowing up a damn reservoir to (literally) flood the zone, is the kind of creative thinking that I hope is taking place. Flying planes and engaging directly isn't the only viable option here. Most of the Russian bombs are surface-air.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Pam in CT]

Molly McKew's essay. 

(Ukraine-facing, not US-politics facing. She's lived in/done a lot of strategic consulting work for Georgia and the Baltics, particulary Estonia.)

[Spy Car]

Today the NY Times reported that over 6 days that the USA and our European allies have delivered 17,000 anti-tank missiles to Ukraine.

This re-supply was also know to have included Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and conventional weapons and ammunition.

Game changing developments in a conflict with under-supplied and demoralized opponents.

Bill

[Spy Car]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

He acts like he is negotiating from a position of strength. He’s not.

Yeah, no he's not.

It is going to get worse for him every day that passes.

His military in in trouble.

The ruble in now worth 65/100s of a cent.

Bill

 

[MercyA]

Please forgive me for coming in on the 16th page and asking a tangential question. I've read some of the thread but am not caught up.

Those of you in conservative Christian homeschooling circles: what response are you seeing to the war? I am not on Facebook and nobody talks politics with me anymore. 😉 

Thanks! 

Edited March 7, 2022 by MercyA

[Loowit]

23 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Please forgive me for coming in on the 16th page and asking a tangential question. I've read some of the thread but am not caught up.

Those of you in conservative Christian homeschooling circles: what response are you seeing to the war? I am not on Facebook and nobody talks politics with me anymore. 😉 

Thanks! 

I am not in a conservative Christian homeschooling group or anything, but my DD has kept in touch with friends from the conservative Christian art school she took classes from in high school.  Most of them, from what I have seen and DD has related to me, are very pro-Ukraine and have been involved in prayer groups for Ukraine.  These are people that are pro-former president, anti-mandates.

I have not seen anyone who is pro-Russia among my friends or "friends" on Facebook or IRL.  But I have seen a few (not many), who believe that if we still had former president then there wouldn't be a war because he was so awesome.  😟

[Dianthus]

32 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Please forgive me for coming in on the 16th page and asking a tangential question. I've read some of the thread but am not caught up.

Those of you in conservative Christian homeschooling circles: what response are you seeing to the war? I am not on Facebook and nobody talks politics with me anymore. 😉 

Thanks! 

I watched livestream for 2 conservative Christian churches on Sunday, both lamenting the war and doing fundraisers for those displaced and sending through mission boards 

[freesia]

37 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Please forgive me for coming in on the 16th page and asking a tangential question. I've read some of the thread but am not caught up.

Those of you in conservative Christian homeschooling circles: what response are you seeing to the war? I am not on Facebook and nobody talks politics with me anymore. 😉 

Thanks! 

All pro-Ukraine that I’ve met. 

[Katy]

39 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Please forgive me for coming in on the 16th page and asking a tangential question. I've read some of the thread but am not caught up.

Those of you in conservative Christian homeschooling circles: what response are you seeing to the war? I am not on Facebook and nobody talks politics with me anymore. 😉 

Thanks! 

The one person that’s vocal on FB shared this today (eta: not typically someone who likes CBN, too liberal). https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/entertainment/2022/march/some-kind-of-lightning-shooting-from-the-sky-ukrainians-tell-stories-of-divine-intervention-from-the-battlefield?fbclid=IwAR0XycLylUfvZKAy-CeoEfpqNx2CTjBngsdnffb9xCk5S1KE76iZxTO3U34

Edited March 7, 2022 by Katy

[kbutton]

36 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Please forgive me for coming in on the 16th page and asking a tangential question. I've read some of the thread but am not caught up.

Those of you in conservative Christian homeschooling circles: what response are you seeing to the war? I am not on Facebook and nobody talks politics with me anymore. 😉 

Thanks! 

I am on a FB group that is not supposed to be explicitly Christian, but that's the dominant vibe. It's also not about general homeschooling but for a specific side issue within homeschooling (I am being vague so as not to disparage the group). There are people on there that coyly ask questions that are known dog whistles, and it's tolerated. Someone did this about Ukraine. The questions are not at all as specific as the homeschooling board. Anyway, there were some very conspiratorial things insinuated on that thread--also in coded language. 

So, yes there are some homeschoolers who think things are "not as they seem" and there is "more to the story." 

6 minutes ago, Loowit said:

I am not in a conservative Christian homeschooling group or anything, but my DD has kept in touch with friends from the conservative Christian art school she took classes from in high school.  Most of them, from what I have seen and DD has related to me, are very pro-Ukraine and have been involved in prayer groups for Ukraine.  These are people that are pro-former president, anti-mandates.

I have not seen anyone who is pro-Russia among my friends or "friends" on Facebook or IRL.  But I have seen a few (not many), who believe that if we still had former president then there wouldn't be a war because he was so awesome.  😟

This is my most typical experience, though I am a bit out of the loop. I am pretty sure I am on ignore for a lot of people, and I unfollowed or unfriended a lot of folks.