my son is still struggling.....this is long, but I need your help....

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

  two BA degrees in their passion subjects - none of which will pay a living wage without a $$$ PhD on top, and will likely not pay one even then.  

This.

Dh has two nephews . . . one was a high school dropout who got his GED.  One, is a music major with a BA and an MA.  Guess who makes more money?  It's not the music major.   The drop out works in computers.  And their sister only did a BS in microbiology, enough to be a lab assistant. She got into computers (through her first job of all places.  She loved it.)

As for passion - many kids lack the experience to know what they will really like.

1dd was determined to major in classics.  that's a field you don't make money (which is kinda important if you want food and a roof) without something else, or a PhD.   She went into computers, (just certs, no degree) and does very well.   She loves it far more than she ever would have imagined. But she loves bringing order out of chaos.

There are a lot of good jobs that don't require a degree that can still make good money.

Dh has pushed several young men towards HVAC.  Mostly inside.  huge demand, and within a few years they can easily make six figures.

I just thought of a piece of advice the father of a woman I used to work for gave when she was in college.   "do you want to take the orders or do you want to give the orders?"   

[J-rap]

I would say any degree, but if pressed, I'd say communications.  That's what one of our kids did when they had no idea what to major in.  I was also pretty sure that if she took a year off to think about it, she wouldn't go back.  Just having a degree opened up so many doors for her!  And even though communications is very vague, it can "fit" into lots of types of jobs.  Acquiring the degree wasn't stressful for her, and was very manageable.  Plus, she's an introvert so it forced her to do projects that she otherwise would probably have shied away from.

She was able to get an entry-level job at a sports clinic as a clinical assistant with that degree, and that eventually led her to a position at a well-respected hospital/clinic where she had the option of continuing to work within their sports clinic, or move to another department (which she did).  Randomly, that all happened when Covid first started, and she was part of one of the first groups of people in the country to work in a Covid testing tent!   So bizarre!  Now, the hospital/clinic is offering to pay for her to go back to school to get another degree so that she can a fill a position they need. 

Just saying how one vague degree can put you on a path that has unknown opportunities!

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, J-rap said:

I would say any degree, but if pressed, I'd say communications.  That's what one of our kids did when they had no idea what to major in.  I was also pretty sure that if she took a year off to think about it, she wouldn't go back.  Just having a degree opened up so many doors for her!  And even though communications is very vague, it can "fit" into lots of types of jobs.  Acquiring the degree wasn't stressful for her, and was very manageable.  Plus, she's an introvert so it forced her to do projects that she otherwise would probably have shied away from.

She was able to get an entry-level job at a sports clinic as a clinical assistant with that degree, and that eventually led her to a position at a well-respected hospital/clinic where she had the option of continuing to work within their sports clinic, or move to another department (which she did).  Randomly, that all happened when Covid first started, and she was part of one of the first groups of people in the country to work in a Covid testing tent!   So bizarre!  Now, the hospital/clinic is offering to pay for her to go back to school to get another degree so that she can a fill a position they need. 

Just saying how one vague degree can put you on a path that has unknown opportunities!

Yes. Communications is a VERY VERSATILE major. Lots of openings for communications.

[kbutton]

On they "any degree" front, I think it's important that he understands why and how to get through the program while feeling like it's a program he can do competently. Feeling like you might fail any minute is a huge strain. 

I went to a select college where being undeclared was really odd, and then to still not know after a year or change majors was doubly odd. It's hard to be in that situation, and it's very hard to find an advisor. I would really push the school to help on that front. FWIW, I ended up going five years, but the last two were part-time. I was undeclared for a year and then tried three different majors! The last major tended to be full of people like me who were jack-of-all-trades types, and the professor who ran the program was good at finding people like us. It's okay to be different!

My ASD kiddo needs to know the big picture and have a plan for the unexpected.

Everyone I know with young adult ASD kiddos has a story similar to this, just swapping out other details.

Any chance he likes working with his hands? If so, one option that might fit with the athletic stuff is prosthetician, but there are only a couple of schools that offer this. I can't remember if it's a degree program or a certificate type of thing. There are also people that make orthotics as a specialty. 

 

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yes. Communications is a VERY VERSATILE major. Lots of openings for communications.

How does that work with social skills/language issues? Just asking as nearly everyone with ASD has a language disorder or issues with pragmatic language (social) even if it's very minor. (My son's is narrow and specific but was deep; remediation was extremely effective.)

I am also on team Get It Diagnosed and Get Supports.

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

How does that work with social skills/language issues? Just asking as nearly everyone with ASD has a language disorder or issues with pragmatic language (social) even if it's very minor. (My son's is narrow and specific but was deep; remediation was extremely effective.)

I am also on team Get It Diagnosed and Get Supports.

Communications can be things like setting up social media accounts for businesses, managing the blog and website of a buisnes. (Often the content is hired out, so if one can't do the writing well, it's not too limiting) Learning SEO and how to make the business website work well. Making Youtube videos, not necessarily being on camera, but setting up advertising type stuff. Especially in today's economy, communications is an area that is very marketable.

[Lawyer&Mom]

As an autistic adult, I’m 1000% behind Team Get A Degree.  I would explain to him that a degree is a ticket he can use to open a lot of doors, and right now he is just working to get that ticket.  There are so many career-focused certifications you can do *after* your degree.  Tell him it’s okay to focus on your career *after* your degree and that lots and lots of successful people do.  He hasn’t failed.  It’s not too late.  When I was his age I desperately wanted a clear, sequential path to follow, and college majors don’t exactly work that way.  Don’t pause everything for him to find his path.  Keep him on a clear path and work on finding the next path.  
 

(It would have helped me to know when I was struggling to pick a major that paralegal certifications and programming certifications and HR certifications even *existed*.  Not so I would pick one, but just to know that I had future options *not* contingent on my eventual major.)  And yes people take entry level positions, and work their way up without certifications, but the idea of formal certifications would have deeply appealed to my Autistic brain. 

[Jaybee]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

Somebody above suggested athletic training. Be aware that this is a medical field which requires rigorous bio, chem, anatomy and physiology, tons of memorization, and a graduate degree. He needs to be very motivated to go for that and this kind of learning needs to fit his learning style. (My athlete DS started out in that major and switched because he did not like the kinds of classes before clinicals). It is likely that his very small school does not offer an adequate program.

I haven't read past this, but I was thinking about this too. Same with physical therapy route. I believe they are both highly competitive majors, which might be okay in the future, but it doesn't sound like he is ready for this right now.

[Katy]

I’d encourage pursuing a field that always has openings, pays well, and that he finds the least objectionable. In most areas that’s accounting, engineering, data science, computer science (or network engineering at a community college), and depending on the area possibly also finance, statistics, and actuarial science.

Most of these lead to 6 figure jobs in less than 10 years, and most of these fields have a decent work/life balance where he could volunteer in sports coaching or he could work for a company in music or faith & still make decent money. I have a cousin who loves music. She’s an accountant for a music company. She loves her company, she loves her job, she makes great money.  She could probably make twice as much working twice as many hours somewhere else, but she has a great work/life balance and last I knew is an executive at her company.

[Lawyer&Mom]

This is a helpful link for brainstorming careers:

https://lexingtonservices.com/career-paths-for-people-with-autism/

[Bootsie]

I would begin with "Does he want to be in college?"  College is not for everyone, and it is certainly not for every 20-year old.  

Assuming that he does want to be in college, and is not going into significant debt to be there, I would not focus much on "what career will this degree lead to".  Some careers definitely require a particular degree--you need to major in accounting if you want to be an accountant or nursing if you want to be a nurse.  But, for most people the track is not that specific.  There is value in a college degree (developing critical thinking skills, writing skills, presentation skills, exposure to new ideas...) that helps with many different career paths.  For example, I know a director of admissions for a major university whose degree is in gerontology, a director of training for a company that does pharmaceutical clinical trials whose degree is in history, a person who works in human resources for a financial institution whose degree is in sociology, a person who works for the chamber of commerce whose degree is in music....  Those individuals thought they would be doing something much different with their degrees when they were college students.  Many employers are looking for someone with a college degree, but not a specific college degree.

His university probably has some career counseling that he could do which would include interest inventories. Volunteer work, internships, a variety of college courses, study abroad programs, and many other things can be done to help narrow down some possibilities.  But, I see many college students need to step back and take the pressure off of themselves to see their future all worked out in front of them before they start looking at those possibilities.   

 

[Catwoman]

Another vote for majoring in whatever looks like it will be the easiest degree for him to earn, with the fewest courses he knows he won’t like.

I would stress that the degree doesn’t have to lead to a particular type of job, but that it’s a piece of paper he will need for almost any job he wants in the future.

Does he have any interest in owning his own business in the future? If he thinks he might like that, a degree in something like entrepreneurship might be a possibility for him, even if he doesn’t like the idea of a “regular” business degree. (But in the end, I would still have him choose whatever program seems the easiest.)

[ktgrok]

What about getting certified as a physical trainer and doing that for a bit? Would he be okay dealing with people one on one like that, with fitness as the topic?

[WendyLady]

My son is a semester or two behind yours and is also not sure. Over Christmas he asked everyone he talked about about how they decided on a career. It was helpful to hear people say “I thought I wanted to do this, but then I hated this classes, so I took ____ and then….”  There’s often not a straight line. And he felt better hearing that successful adults don’t always have a certain starting goal or passion. Maybe a career advisor can help him look at his current credits and match him to something that he doesn’t hate? 

In my previous job, I invited a usajobs person to come talk about careers with the high school students I was working with. She was so helpful! She said that kids today feel a lot of pressure to have a dream and a passion and it can be overwhelming for most kids. Instead, she suggested that the you get a job. And while you work at that job you look around and see what you like and what you don’t like. And you start setting yourself up for the job that you like. Maybe that means schooling or training, or maybe it means different work experience. And when you get that job, you look around at the next possibilities… you don’t get a job and keep it for 40 years anymore - you build your skill stack and keep getting experience until you get to something you love. That was helpful for me (currently working on my own degree!) 

Perhaps your son could get some work experience at the YMCA now and the Parks department this summer to see if that is something he likes. He could referee high school sports this spring like track, or club sports all year. If his semester ends before your local schools get out, he could substitute teach and get some experience in different schools? 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Danae said:

As someone who was in a similar situation and made what I now see were bad choices, I want to say very loudly:  get ANY degree. If he was doing well in the church music program he could go back to that even though he doesn’t want to do it as a career.  ANY degree will open a lot of doors, and if he decides on a career track later he can start a Masters or certification program without having to go back and finish a bachelors first.  

Yup. Same. 

HOnestly? I'd have him find the degree that is the shortest or easiest for him to complete with the credits he already has. An advisor might be able to help with that. Just get ANYTHING, so he can check that box. MOST jobs do NOT require a particular major, just a degree. Can be in underwater basketweaving, no one cares. So, get the easiest one, if he can mentally manage to stay in school. Otherwise, gap year, try some community college classes in random stuff or entreprenuership ideas. 

[TechWife]

3 hours ago, kfeusse said:

there actually is a SPorts and rec program...and we are encouraging him to check it out.  I think he is scared to "fail" again...even though we have told him 1000 times he is not failing...he is exploring....like so many kids do.  But he just isn't seeing it that way.  But we are still working with him. 

 

There are a lot of career options with this degree. The ones that come to mind are working for town park & rec departments, park systems, country clubs and child life.

I'll specifically put in a plug for child life. It has a mix of teaching, encouraging and playing with children in a hospital or clinic setting. Most CCLP's have degrees in child development, but recreation is an advantage as well.  The medical concepts are taught mainly during the internship period, although there is an overview class at some universities. Here's an information page on the certification process if you think he'd be interested.

https://www.childlife.org/certification/becoming-certified

[mum]

My heart goes out to you. You are being strong and caring and that is exhausting. And I know we all do that sort of thing all the time. So hugs and every best thing to you. 

We also had a son who was a bit lost as to what to do. He changed major 3 times. We also looked at “what jobs do you want to do and what major do they want “. None of those majors worked out for him. We ended up (sort of in desperation at the time) encouraging him to choose some major that he loved and was excited about, and the job could sort of figure itself out later. It felt a big risk at the time. I asked him what college class he’d taken so far that he loved. And he told me, and that’s how he chose his final major. He met his wife in that major. He graduated with honors. He took a job that was as far from that major as the east is from the west. So many jobs just need a degree, not a set batch of information that someone has memorized (obviously this is not true for every job). But his counselor did say that medical schools were recruiting undergrads from the humanities because they had people skills and knew how to reason, skills which are hard to teach. 

Anyhow, he did ok following the ‘do what you love’. Now he is more mature, has seen a LOT of life, and  knows more of  who he is and what he wants. That sort of knowledge could only come with time and experience, for him. I am so thankful that he completed the degree. And that we had the support to walk alongside a very bumpy ride. 

[mum]

Also wanted to add, I was also thinking ‘teacher’ as I was reading the beginning of your post. My husband is a teacher, as is my dad and brother in law. We’ve raised 3 kids and sent them all to college on a teachers salary. My husband really wanted to be a PE teacher, sport is his thing 100%. A dear friend (an older teacher) advised him not to choose PE. Those jobs are a lot more likely to be cut when budgets are tight. So he chose math, which he’s good at but he wouldn’t have said at the time that he loved. But he saw that mah teachers were about as stable a position as one could get.  He has said so many times over his 17 years of teaching, how thankful he is for her advice. 

Other teaching areas that are highly in demand-special Ed, adaptive PE (different pool of money than regular PE, and not enough of them), math or science. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

13 minutes ago, mum said:

Also wanted to add, I was also thinking ‘teacher’ as I was reading the beginning of your post. My husband is a teacher, as is my dad and brother in law. We’ve raised 3 kids and sent them all to college on a teachers salary. My husband really wanted to be a PE teacher, sport is his thing 100%. A dear friend (an older teacher) advised him not to choose PE. Those jobs are a lot more likely to be cut when budgets are tight. So he chose math, which he’s good at but he wouldn’t have said at the time that he loved. But he saw that mah teachers were about as stable a position as one could get.  He has said so many times over his 17 years of teaching, how thankful he is for her advice. 

Other teaching areas that are highly in demand-special Ed, adaptive PE (different pool of money than regular PE, and not enough of them), math or science. 

Just wanted to add that I had several Autistic teachers in high school. (Math, English, PE).  None of use knew it at the time, but Autistic teachers are most definitely a thing.  

[iamonlyone]

Could he do a sports/ministry related summer internship? There are several out there. Here is one called X-Project: athletesinaction.org/trips/x-project/

Besides being with other athletes and going through the discipleship program the website says...

X Project Interns gain experience working with a global non-profit organization in areas like:

• Sports/Event Management
• Graphic Design
• Facility Management
• Video Production
• Challenge Course Facilitating
• Writing
• Sports Information

• Social Media Marketing
• Business Operations
• Management & Communication
• Athletic Training
• Website Design & Management
• Strength & Conditioning
• Summer Soccer Camps

It seems like maybe he could explore various avenues that might help him discover interests.

BTW, I don't know anything about this particular organization. I just found it doing a quick Google search. There are other Christian sports organizations that have summer internships and full-year programs.

[Carrie12345]

In our family, we don’t really encourage “degree for degree’s sake”, but that’s primarily because the large majority of college expenses are our kids’ responsibility and we’ve seen too many people “upside down” on their investment by way too much for way too long. But we would be supportive if that was their choice.

My current 18.5yo is wavering at the moment. She’s somewhat sure she knows what she wants to do, but she does have a fear of completing that degree (a pretty specified degree) and then deciding against that career. Our advice, which is getting close to converting into a hard push, is to bite that dang bullet and start the gen eds already! She can reevaluate as she gets close to wrapping those up.

If there are no more gen eds left, I’d be on board with focusing on life experiences to gain perspective.

I’m in no way anti-college, but I’m not a fan of painting it as the end-all, be-all, especially when put on a hard timeline for young adults. I was not ready for it at 18, 19, or at 21, the three times I tried. Ds was not entirely prepared for it at 16 or 18, but is determined at 23.  First dd did great in classes at 17, but favored a path that skipped at the fluff, so to speak, and goes straight to relevant training. And next dd is trying to make decisions while doing some “life experience”.
Dh was on the other end, building a career on a degree that had nothing to do with his job, so I don’t exactly poo-poo that!

Anyway, I offer no specific advice. Just that I’ve found releasing all of us from the idea of a 4-yr degree in 4-5 years has opened us to creative solutions and, for the most part, freed my kids from feeling like they weren’t good enough.  I know some of that could be me projecting. I was coerced into a major and then failed to meet expectations. I do think that’s a bigger burden than some realize.

[ProudGrandma]

18 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

I just thought of a piece of advice the father of a woman I used to work for gave when she was in college.   "do you want to take the orders or do you want to give the orders?"   

this is a a good question to ask.  thanks for that.  This might help my youngest too...as he is a senior in High School....he as a general idea as to what he wants...but this might give some perspective.  

[Soror]

Listening along as I'm wondering if I'll end up here. My son is an 11th grader and went from wants a 4 yr degree, to maybe no college at all, maybe a 2 yr degree, maybe away for school. He had a rough year last year. anyway----

my thoughts are in the absence of some big thing he loves I'd encourage to pick something he likes and go for that. --- Assuming he is enjoying school well enough - which sounds like he does-- and it is not costing a fortune. 

For my own son I'm hoping he'll at least get a 2 yr degree as it will be free (state program) OR in lieu of that some kind of area trade school in a specific area - but tbh those are also free but then you have to pay room and board- I'd just as soon as him do the 2 yr which he can then take towards a 4 yr now or even later.

Dh went back to college at 42 with a family and FT+ job. It has been incredibly hard for him and all of us. We really, really do not want any of ours to go through that. We'll be encouraging them all to get some degree, any degree unless they have a specific field they want that either doesn't need it or needs specialized training. We're encouraging them highly to look for the affordable college but get something.

[ProudGrandma]

18 hours ago, J-rap said:

Now, the hospital/clinic is offering to pay for her to go back to school to get another degree so that she can a fill a position they need. 

18 hours ago, J-rap said:

Just saying how one vague degree can put you on a path that has unknown opportunities!

interesting for sure.  But I was sort of thinking the same thing....I have heard of this type of situation before....so I know it's "a thing".

 

 

[ProudGrandma]

17 hours ago, ktgrok said:

What about getting certified as a physical trainer and doing that for a bit? Would he be okay dealing with people one on one like that, with fitness as the topic?

isn't this more medical, thus being more academic?  I do not think that is for our son if it is.  If not, tell me more please...

[ProudGrandma]

9 hours ago, mum said:

We also had a son who was a bit lost as to what to do. He changed major 3 times. We also looked at “what jobs do you want to do and what major do they want “. None of those majors worked out for him. We ended up (sort of in desperation at the time) encouraging him to choose some major that he loved and was excited about, and the job could sort of figure itself out later. It felt a big risk at the time. I asked him what college class he’d taken so far that he loved. And he told me, and that’s how he chose his final major. He met his wife in that major. He graduated with honors. He took a job that was as far from that major as the east is from the west. So many jobs just need a degree, not a set batch of information that someone has memorized (obviously this is not true for every job). But his counselor did say that medical schools were recruiting undergrads from the humanities because they had people skills and knew how to reason, skills which are hard to teach. 

Anyhow, he did ok following the ‘do what you love’. Now he is more mature, has seen a LOT of life, and  knows more of  who he is and what he wants. That sort of knowledge could only come with time and experience, for him. I am so thankful that he completed the degree. And that we had the support to walk alongside a very bumpy ride. 

thank you for this.  I like the idea of asking about a class he loved.  If I were to guess, I would bet he would say "Racquetball, Pickleball or Bowling"...if we asked him what academic class he liked best, I do not know what he would say....but the answer would be interesting for sure.  (yeah he was the kid who when asked in grade school what his favorite subject was and he would say recess...yeah he is THAT kid)

The problem might be is that he has only really taken music classes (when he was a music major), and gen eds...other than those 3 PE classes.  He is taking one class this semester that would fulfill a requirement if he were to go into that Sports and Recreation program (we suggested that class to get a taste of the program)....but haven't really heard what he thinks of it yet.   

Thanks for this though....it's good stuff!!

[ProudGrandma]

9 hours ago, mum said:

Also wanted to add, I was also thinking ‘teacher’ as I was reading the beginning of your post. My husband is a teacher, as is my dad and brother in law. We’ve raised 3 kids and sent them all to college on a teachers salary. My husband really wanted to be a PE teacher, sport is his thing 100%. A dear friend (an older teacher) advised him not to choose PE. Those jobs are a lot more likely to be cut when budgets are tight. So he chose math, which he’s good at but he wouldn’t have said at the time that he loved. But he saw that mah teachers were about as stable a position as one could get.  He has said so many times over his 17 years of teaching, how thankful he is for her advice. 

Other teaching areas that are highly in demand-special Ed, adaptive PE (different pool of money than regular PE, and not enough of them), math or science. 

yeah....and that is our issue....he does not like math, science or history...the common subjects taken on as teachers who also want to teach PE.   I do not see him doing special ed or adaptive PE....although a good idea.  thanks. 

[ProudGrandma]

9 hours ago, iamonlyone said:

Could he do a sports/ministry related summer internship? There are several out there. Here is one called X-Project: athletesinaction.org/trips/x-project/

possibly, but the school is pressuring him to declare a major before the summer, so he can be assigned an advisor and register for classes for the fall.  (By April to be exact).  So, sure, we can look into this....and I think we will....but that doesn't help with the other pressure he is under....but it would give him something to look forward to for sure.  Thanks. 

[marbel]

19 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I just thought of a piece of advice the father of a woman I used to work for gave when she was in college.   "do you want to take the orders or do you want to give the orders?"   

I get the point of this but on the other hand... many of us, myself included, are much happier NOT being the one giving the orders. I know a lot of people who have great jobs but are simply not supervisor/manager material, and that is fine too. (My own stint as a supervisor was disastrous for me, even though I got good reviews and the people who worked for me liked me well enough. I went back to "individual contributor" as soon as I could. Forget moving even further up the chain.)

Or maybe I'm not picking up that it's a joke about fast food work?

OP, I'm sorry your son is feeling such pressure. I can relate; one of my kids struggled mightily in this way and may never work in his actual field (unless he decides to go into academia and go for Master's and Ph.D, which right now are off the table financially and mentally/emotionally for him). 

 

[ProudGrandma]

2 minutes ago, marbel said:

I get the point of this but on the other hand... many of us, myself included, are much happier NOT being the one giving the orders. I know a lot of people who have great jobs but are simply not supervisor/manager material, and that is fine too. (My own stint as a supervisor was disastrous for me, even though I got good reviews and the people who worked for me liked me well enough. I went back to "individual contributor" as soon as I could. Forget moving even further up the chain.)

Or maybe I'm not picking up that it's a joke about fast food work?

OP, I'm sorry your son is feeling such pressure. I can relate; one of my kids struggled mightily in this way and may never work in his actual field (unless he decides to go into academia and go for Master's and Ph.D, which right now are off the table financially and mentally/emotionally for him). 

 

I don't think the reference was to a fast food place...it was more like....do you like being in charge or the one who is following someone else's lead.  

[ktgrok]

52 minutes ago, kfeusse said:

isn't this more medical, thus being more academic?  I do not think that is for our son if it is.  If not, tell me more please...

I meant personal trainer - the people that train people at a gym, etc. 

[ktgrok]

Does he like the exercise part of sports, or the outdoors part, or the teamwork part?

If teamwork, and adrenaline, would something like firefighting work for him? Most also are paramedics though...that's back to medical. But when we toured a station it was mentioned that many firefighters are ADHD types..

Edited February 3, 2022 by ktgrok

[ProudGrandma]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Does he like the exercise part of sports, or the outdoors part, or the teamwork part?

If teamwork, and adrenaline, would something like firefighting work for him? Most also are paramedics though...that's back to medical. 

that is a good question....I will ask him that.  thanks. 

[Pippen]

22 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I think I would just try to encourage him to just get a degree there. Any degree he can get. Choose the path of least resistance and get a degree. Notch that as a success and go from there. General studies. Whatever is easiest. Get the degree. 
 

Then that opens up all those jobs that we all complain shouldn’t really require a degree to check a box but do. Some of those might be things like organizing sports programs at a church or Y or rec department. Or it gives him time to mature and then he can go for more training or school in what he has figured out he wants to do. 

It isn’t ideal. It costs more time and money than if he went straight into whatever he ultimately ended up doing. But most people really don’t. Life is long and the road is curvy for most people and that is okay. This is the kid you have and the circumstance he is in. I had one in kind of similar circumstance too. My advice to him was to get the degree and we would figure out the next step then. Tough love or pulling your support isn’t really going to put him on a better path so don’t listen to the people telling you it isn’t responsible to keep supporting him. 
 

So I would take one semester at a time. I would look at the credits he has and what he likes and can be successful at and map a path of least resistance towards a degree. Any degree. I’d support him and encourage him and help him find volunteer experiences and help him build his confidence while he works that path. Then re-evaluate and help him with the next steps. 
 

Hang in there! It is just harder for some to get their footing and no one wants to talk about it. But you are not alone.

I was going to suggest this -- get any degree, but I think something with flexibility would be ideal. One of mine was totally lost majorwise, two major changes plus college was interrupted by a medical situation. In the end he wound up getting a mass communications major because that was what could get him through quickest at his college. Another is a recent grad working outside of the major area. A third is working in a career related to her major--not one she'd even considered or would have thought she had interest in--but it's been a good fit.

[Carrie12345]

44 minutes ago, kfeusse said:

possibly, but the school is pressuring him to declare a major before the summer, so he can be assigned an advisor and register for classes for the fall.  (By April to be exact).  So, sure, we can look into this....and I think we will....but that doesn't help with the other pressure he is under....but it would give him something to look forward to for sure.  Thanks. 

I just want to make sure… He does know he can change majors, right?  Sure, it can be a pain to do so, but it’s not a blood oath he has to stick to. 😉 

[ProudGrandma]

5 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I just want to make sure… He does know he can change majors, right?  Sure, it can be a pain to do so, but it’s not a blood oath he has to stick to. 😉 

yes.....he started out as a church music major...took music classes for a year and decided it wasn't for him....but the looming question is WHAT is for him? 

[Carrie12345]

10 minutes ago, kfeusse said:

yes.....he started out as a church music major...took music classes for a year and decided it wasn't for him....but the looming question is WHAT is for him? 

Would it help him to frame it more as “what is the best fit for TODAY” as opposed to long-term? I’m just trying to get a better sense of what he’s feeling.  If he’s trying to decide what his life should look like at 45… that’s a tall order.  If he’s trying to decide how to make next semester successful, and only next semester, that’s a whole different thing.
For my own ASD kid, the bigger the issue, the more likely he’ll freeze and shut down. (Like his mom, lol.)

[ProudGrandma]

3 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Would it help him to frame it more as “what is the best fit for TODAY” as opposed to long-term? I’m just trying to get a better sense of what he’s feeling.  If he’s trying to decide what his life should look like at 45… that’s a tall order.  If he’s trying to decide how to make next semester successful, and only next semester, that’s a whole different thing.
For my own ASD kid, the bigger the issue, the more likely he’ll freeze and shut down. (Like his mom, lol.)

that is a good perspective....we have been trying to look at one semester at a time...but I know the bigger decision is concerning him.  It's hard at the age of 20 to try and figure out the rest of your life....it's almost an unfair expectation...but regardless....you have to do something....or nothing....but it has to be a decision made with a reason and a purpose.  I mean, he can't just decide to bowl for the next year without a reason for doing it....although, at this minute, I know that he would like nothing more than to do that.  He loves bowling, and he is pretty good...but not great...not the kind of great that would make him a pro-bowler or anything.  And...my son is great at focusing in on one thing for a while....and really focusing....and then dropping it.  So, we don't even know if this is one of those things....or in less than a year, he will loose interest and be onto his next "obsession".  But thanks so much. 

 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

In our family, we don’t really encourage “degree for degree’s sake”, but that’s primarily because the large majority of college expenses are our kids’ responsibility and we’ve seen too many people “upside down” on their investment by way too much for way too long. But we would be supportive if that was their choice.

My current 18.5yo is wavering at the moment. She’s somewhat sure she knows what she wants to do, but she does have a fear of completing that degree (a pretty specified degree) and then deciding against that career. Our advice, which is getting close to converting into a hard push, is to bite that dang bullet and start the gen eds already! She can reevaluate as she gets close to wrapping those up.

If there are no more gen eds left, I’d be on board with focusing on life experiences to gain perspective.

I’m in no way anti-college, but I’m not a fan of painting it as the end-all, be-all, especially when put on a hard timeline for young adults. I was not ready for it at 18, 19, or at 21, the three times I tried. Ds was not entirely prepared for it at 16 or 18, but is determined at 23.  First dd did great in classes at 17, but favored a path that skipped at the fluff, so to speak, and goes straight to relevant training. And next dd is trying to make decisions while doing some “life experience”.
Dh was on the other end, building a career on a degree that had nothing to do with his job, so I don’t exactly poo-poo that!

Anyway, I offer no specific advice. Just that I’ve found releasing all of us from the idea of a 4-yr degree in 4-5 years has opened us to creative solutions and, for the most part, freed my kids from feeling like they weren’t good enough.  I know some of that could be me projecting. I was coerced into a major and then failed to meet expectations. I do think that’s a bigger burden than some realize.

I was going to post something similar, but you said it much better.  

A degree at any cost (financial, mental, emotional, physical) is definitely not worth it. 

Not all people need a degree to be happy, healthy and well adjusted.  

And some people suffer from thinking that they are less than if they don’t have a degree.  

[mum]

3 hours ago, kfeusse said:

thank you for this.  I like the idea of asking about a class he loved.  If I were to guess, I would bet he would say "Racquetball, Pickleball or Bowling"...if we asked him what academic class he liked best, I do not know what he would say....but the answer would be interesting for sure.  (yeah he was the kid who when asked in grade school what his favorite subject was and he would say recess...yeah he is THAT kid)

The problem might be is that he has only really taken music classes (when he was a music major), and gen eds...other than those 3 PE classes.  He is taking one class this semester that would fulfill a requirement if he were to go into that Sports and Recreation program (we suggested that class to get a taste of the program)....but haven't really heard what he thinks of it yet.   

Thanks for this though....it's good stuff!!

The class that my son said he loved was a gen. ed. class. He was hating all his major classes, even though they were subjects he was good at. So I guess those gen. ed. classes serve some purpose after all (for some kids). And in fact, the class he loved, he said he was embarrassed to say he loved it (he was an engineering major at the time and the class he loved was a humanities class-I guess the engineers look down on those). It was brave of him to make such an about-face. 

[mum]

This thread pull at my heart so much and brings back many memories. Our first 2 children entered college the same year. You've all see the story of my son, which I posted earlier. He was the larger-than-life personality of the 2 of them, and his school path had always been hard, which is why a good ending was SUCH a relief. But I've been thinking more about our daughter's experience as I've read the other posts here. She did NOT know what she wanted to do, except she knew she did not want to go to college. She is a good student, but really wasn't driven for academics. She had a heart for ministry and so she decided that if she had to go to college, she would go to a private Christian college. I'll back up here, because I'm sure some of you are saying, "why did she have to go to college?" She was a strong student, and we as adults could see past the temporary discomfort of college and know that a degree would be the key to a lot of opportunities that she said she wanted. We also knew if she took a year off that she would never go. And for girls it's a lot harder to get a degree after one is married and possibly has kids. (None of these statements are absolutes. Every circumstance is different, but in our experience and opinion, these things rang true). So, off she went to her chosen Christian college, and she hated it. The other students were partying and not behaving in a way that she liked. Six weeks in she said, "I don't want to be here". We encouraged and supported her to finish that first semester, both to see if it got better/changed, or to at least get the credits for the classes she had started. She left at Christmas and went to the local community college. Really didn't love it either but at least she knew it was cheap and living at home was free. She continued to mutter about "no point, I don't want to go to college, etc" all through her 3 semesters at community college. This was happening SIMULTANEOUSLY to our son's rocky path through 4 majors and also saying he wanted to quit. Good times! I asked our daughter what it was that she wanted to be able to offer people once she was out in the work world, because as much fun as mission trips to Mexico are, I told her that just her sweet presence was not going to pay her bills or really give concrete value out in the world. She decided for a major in an are that was A) easier than many/she had a lot of credits in those areas, and B) she felt  was an area in global ministry that she could give value in. 

She finished the degree (with fair amount of muttering still). She took a year off. And she went back to get a Masters (insert parents rolling around the floor in shock and glee for being proved right). She does work that she loves and is good at and that is truly significant. 

When we got those 2 kids through college we really could have checked ourselves into a sanitarium for a year's rest cure. So my absolute hearts best to all of you who are in it, or having it coming up soon. It will pass-but as the saying goes, not soon enough!

[Pam in CT]

7 minutes ago, mum said:

This thread pull at my heart so much and brings back many memories. Our first 2 children entered college the same year. You've all see the story of my son, which I posted earlier. He was the larger-than-life personality of the 2 of them, and his school path had always been hard, which is why a good ending was SUCH a relief. But I've been thinking more about our daughter's experience as I've read the other posts here. She did NOT know what she wanted to do, except she knew she did not want to go to college. She is a good student, but really wasn't driven for academics. She had a heart for ministry and so she decided that if she had to go to college, she would go to a private Christian college. I'll back up here, because I'm sure some of you are saying, "why did she have to go to college?" She was a strong student, and we as adults could see past the temporary discomfort of college and know that a degree would be the key to a lot of opportunities that she said she wanted. We also knew if she took a year off that she would never go. And for girls it's a lot harder to get a degree after one is married and possibly has kids. (None of these statements are absolutes. Every circumstance is different, but in our experience and opinion, these things rang true). So, off she went to her chosen Christian college, and she hated it. The other students were partying and not behaving in a way that she liked. Six weeks in she said, "I don't want to be here". We encouraged and supported her to finish that first semester, both to see if it got better/changed, or to at least get the credits for the classes she had started. She left at Christmas and went to the local community college. Really didn't love it either but at least she knew it was cheap and living at home was free. She continued to mutter about "no point, I don't want to go to college, etc" all through her 3 semesters at community college. This was happening SIMULTANEOUSLY to our son's rocky path through 4 majors and also saying he wanted to quit. Good times! I asked our daughter what it was that she wanted to be able to offer people once she was out in the work world, because as much fun as mission trips to Mexico are, I told her that just her sweet presence was not going to pay her bills or really give concrete value out in the world. She decided for a major in an are that was A) easier than many/she had a lot of credits in those areas, and B) she felt  was an area in global ministry that she could give value in. 

She finished the degree (with fair amount of muttering still). She took a year off. And she went back to get a Masters (insert parents rolling around the floor in shock and glee for being proved right). She does work that she loves and is good at and that is truly significant. 

When we got those 2 kids through college we really could have checked ourselves into a sanitarium for a year's rest cure. So my absolute hearts best to all of you who are in it, or having it coming up soon. It will pass-but as the saying goes, not soon enough!

My late blooming son just finished his BA in a general-studies humanities in December. Lot of bumps and two major changes on his part, lot of white knuckles and gritted teeth on ours, 4.5 years rather than the initially planned 4. Which, fine.

He's *still* not sure what he want to "do" when he "grows up." Well, how many grown @ss adults in my life, including my husband, my brother, and me have made hairpin turns in career paths? Fine.

He just started a 1-year granted-funded job that more or less fell into his lap, out of a volunteer stint he did in the midst of COVID. The duration is finite; he'll have to figure the  next step out when he gets there; he still isn't sure what that will look like; in the meantime he can pretty-much cover his expenses and has healthcare coverage. That is awesome.

He doesn't have a "map" for the next 10 years of his life. I don't know where he'll go from the good-enough landing place he's landed in at the moment.

Neither, really, does he.

That is OK. Some people don't. It's unnerving and it is, still, OK.

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, kfeusse said:

that is a good perspective....we have been trying to look at one semester at a time...but I know the bigger decision is concerning him.  It's hard at the age of 20 to try and figure out the rest of your life....it's almost an unfair expectation...but regardless....you have to do something....or nothing....but it has to be a decision made with a reason and a purpose.  I mean, he can't just decide to bowl for the next year without a reason for doing it....although, at this minute, I know that he would like nothing more than to do that.  He loves bowling, and he is pretty good...but not great...not the kind of great that would make him a pro-bowler or anything.  And...my son is great at focusing in on one thing for a while....and really focusing....and then dropping it.  So, we don't even know if this is one of those things....or in less than a year, he will loose interest and be onto his next "obsession".  But thanks so much. 

 

I'm the same way with the intense focus and then changing - I'd look for a degree that is easiest and has the most flexibility for that reason. 

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, mum said:

The class that my son said he loved was a gen. ed. class. He was hating all his major classes, even though they were subjects he was good at. So I guess those gen. ed. classes serve some purpose after all (for some kids). And in fact, the class he loved, he said he was embarrassed to say he loved it (he was an engineering major at the time and the class he loved was a humanities class-I guess the engineers look down on those). It was brave of him to make such an about-face. 

This is what happened to me my sophomore year in college.  I took a fantastic history class and realized that I would love to be a history professor if you could do history like they did it at the college level, not the grammar stage level history I had always had before.  Unfortunately when I went home and told my parents this they were waaaay unsupportive and that is how I ended up sticking with chemical engineering instead.  I would have had a happier life the other way, but I had a pretty good one regardless. There are many good paths.

[Carol in Cal.]

3 hours ago, kfeusse said:

yes.....he started out as a church music major...took music classes for a year and decided it wasn't for him....but the looming question is WHAT is for him? 

Can he finish that major though, and then switch to something else? My sister wanted to be a teacher, and looked into it and found that she just needed ‘any’ BA/BS degree and then a year of certification classes and study for that.  So she majored in music because she enjoyed it, and then buckled down and got her certification.  She taught in public schools for quite a few years but moonlighted intermittently as a church and wedding organist, and now is teaching the music and the religion classes at a local parochial school.  Education is never wasted.  

[ProudGrandma]

20 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Can he finish that major though, and then switch to something else? My sister wanted to be a teacher, and looked into it and found that she just needed ‘any’ BA/BS degree and then a year of certification classes and study for that.  So she majored in music because she enjoyed it, and then buckled down and got her certification.  She taught in public schools for quite a few years but moonlighted intermittently as a church and wedding organist, and now is teaching the music and the religion classes at a local parochial school.  Education is never wasted.  

Could he? sure....but he absolutely doesn't want to......It's a very intensive program and he is not interested at all.   My husband happened to have a quick conversation on the phone with my son just this morning...and in their conversation he asked him what he favorite class has been thus far and he mentioned the Recreation class he is taking called Programs in Leisure and Adventure activities...it's a theory class (not an activities class like bowling, but a real academic class in the recreation program)... and then a theology class.  Anything music wasn't mentioned at all.  So I thought that was insightful. 

[ProudGrandma]

30 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

This is what happened to me my sophomore year in college.  I took a fantastic history class and realized that I would love to be a history professor if you could do history like they did it at the college level, not the grammar stage level history I had always had before.  Unfortunately when I went home and told my parents this they were waaaay unsupportive and that is how I ended up sticking with chemical engineering instead.  I would have had a happier life the other way, but I had a pretty good one regardless. There are many good paths.

that makes me so sad for you.   I don't want to be that parent....(nothing against yours, I am sure they meant well)...I hope our son knows we are supportive of his choice....unless it's illegal or immoral :) .... 

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, kfeusse said:

Could he? sure....but he absolutely doesn't want to......It's a very intensive program and he is not interested at all.   My husband happened to have a quick conversation on the phone with my son just this morning...and in their conversation he asked him what he favorite class has been thus far and he mentioned the Recreation class he is taking called Programs in Leisure and Adventure activities...it's a theory class (not an activities class like bowling, but a real academic class in the recreation program)... and then a theology class.  Anything music wasn't mentioned at all.  So I thought that was insightful. 

To go a bit further I would ask him why those were his favorite classes--what specifically did he like about them?  (Conversely, you might ask what have been his least favorite classes and why.)  Often it is not the subject content itself, but a professor who the student builds a rapport with.   Or, there is a specific project/assignment that the student enjoys.  It is helpful to see if a common theme is plenty of structure, creativity, open-ended problems, friends in the class, group projects, etc.  

[Arcadia]

6 hours ago, marbel said:

I get the point of this but on the other hand... many of us, myself included, are much happier NOT being the one giving the orders. I know a lot of people who have great jobs but are simply not supervisor/manager material, and that is fine too. (My own stint as a supervisor was disastrous for me, even though I got good reviews and the people who worked for me liked me well enough. I went back to "individual contributor" as soon as I could. Forget moving even further up the chain.)

Or maybe I'm not picking up that it's a joke about fast food work?

 

 

6 hours ago, kfeusse said:

I don't think the reference was to a fast food place...it was more like....do you like being in charge or the one who is following someone else's lead.  

I think the phrase typically refers to “pecking order” at work. So an engineering lab tech would typically maxed out at a lower base salary than an engineer though overtime bonuses could mean a higher take home pay.

Having work my way up the tech support chain before, I would say the higher you go up the pecking order, the more job flexibility I had. I could plan my workday instead of having my workday dictated by customers.

[Lecka]

I am going to share something that happened with some of my college friends.

They did well in freshman/sophomore classes and had classes they enjoyed.  
 

Then they would enroll in a junior/senior level class and either fail or drop the class.

Rinse and repeat, take a semester off to work, etc.

I never knew what the situation was, if the classes were too hard, or if they didn’t have time because of time spent working.  
 

Some of them would also change majors and then when it was time for a junior/senior class in the new major, the same thing would happen.

 

Then they might have 3 years worth of classes, and their Gen Ed requirements complete, but they would not have anything towards junior/senior requirements in a major.

 

I was a traditional student who attended full-time, immediately after high school, and graduated in 4 years.  
 

My friends who were this way were a little older than I was and had a foot in the working world.  
 

As far as I know, none of them graduated.  They took a semester off and then it turned into more time off, and in the meantime they were doing well at their jobs.  
 

But depending on their family situations some of them then had college loans but no degree, which was too bad.  
 

I don’t know if this is common at other colleges, but at mine the junior/senior classes were a step up in difficulty compared to freshman/sophomore classes, to the point that there were students who were successful in the freshman/sophomore classes and just couldn’t do the junior/senior classes.  And it could just be who I was friends with, because I did live off-campus in an area where a lot of students lived who took time off to work, and that was just one little section of a vast student area, but I did see it happen a lot.  
 

I never had the same classes they had, but it seemed like either halfway through the semester they would get a bad grade, or else there would be a project or assignment that they just could not (or did not) complete, and then they would drop the class.  Or it would be too late to drop, and then they would either quit going or just give up on being able to pass, and I think the classes would get hard for them to where they really didn’t think they had a chance.  
 

And then what also happened — at a certain point, their whole schedule would be all Junior/senior level classes.  They wouldn’t have any easier classes to balance their schedule.  And then at that point it would be really overwhelming.  Some seemed to get to this point and some did not (some seemed to just continue to take lower-level classes in another potential major, and so do well in two or three classes while dropping or failing one or two classes).  
 

Anyway — it is something to keep in mind, if that is a trend at this school.  Or if the freshman-level class is seeming particularly hard even while he is successful.  
 

Edit:  for example, one of my friends got promoted at Target to (I think?) assistant manager.  One of my friends got promoted to shift manager at a local bakery and it had good benefits, and they wanted him to work the day shift (and give him more responsibility, etc).  They were both at the point of getting benefits.  

Edited February 3, 2022 by Lecka