Is this overreacting/being paranoid? Covid related

[MEmama]

Once a week I get together with a friend for coffee (outdoors) or a hike. She is generally cautious but not as cautious as I am, and while she is literally my only social outlet, she has become a lot more active in her community. I'm obviously glad for her that she’s doing more, but I do feel like my risk factor is increasing as a result (that’s not a judgment to be clear—just an explanation of why I’m starting to reassess how I might best approach our winter get togethers). 

This week her husband is in Wisconsin, which from everything I’m reading here on the board is exploding with new cases. Her DH will not be taking many precautions and it’s very unlikely many will be taken by the company he’s working with. He won’t be quarantining when he returns.

Is it paranoid or reasonable of me to skip our weekly coffee dates with her for a couple weeks after he returns? I feel like I’m sort of losing perspective. 
 

FWIW They are both vaxxed but not yet boosted. He has had covid twice and is currently suffering from long covid. I’m getting my booster this week.

[Katy]

If he’s had it twice and been vaccinated after having it twice he is likely immune for now. If he got vaccinated and then caught it, I would assume he has an immunity issue or is lying about the vaccine. 

[HomeAgain]

I think you have to decide your goal post with covid and act accordingly.  If your goal post is to never get it, then no, you are not being unreasonable.  Besides, I'm sure you can find a reason to skip during this busy holiday season. 😉

My own goal post is to not risk death or hospitalization for me and mine.  Once ds is fully immunized and I have my booster, we are taking him to a restaurant.  I won't know if the server has been exposed, I won't know if the people at the table behind us are positive...but I am comfortable with the risk within the goals I have set.

[regentrude]

I think this falls into the area between "paranoid" and "of course no big deal".
I personally would still get together since you are meeting outdoors; you can still mask if you feel better doing so, and it would pretty much eliminate the risk. I think it is rather unlikely he will get infected. But that does not mean your caution is paranoia. It is equally valid to skip meeting for your increased peace of mind.

ETA: If he is out in the community and going to work in his home city, he is exposed anyway, and traveling to a state with more cases isn't that big of a change. (I am currently in a place with insane Covid numbers, but they don't affect my personal safety because there are activities I won't participate in. But if I ate in restaurants in my US home town, I'd be exposed to additional risk anyway.)

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by regentrude

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

2 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I think you have to decide your goal post with covid and act accordingly.  If your goal post is to never get it, then no, you are not being unreasonable.  Besides, I'm sure you can find a reason to skip during this busy holiday season. 😉

My own goal post is to not risk death or hospitalization for me and mine.  Once ds is fully immunized and I have my booster, we are taking him to a restaurant.  I won't know if the server has been exposed, I won't know if the people at the table behind us are positive...but I am comfortable with the risk within the goals I have set.

I think this is the answer, to be honest.  It really depends on what your goals are.  If your goals are to never get Covid, then you’re being perfectly reasonable.

Eventually, I think everyone is going to have to decide their own goals.  There are truly some people who don’t care about catching Covid or catching it again.  There are others I know who truly just plan to stay locked down forever, because they absolutely don’t ever want to catch Covid.  I think most of us fall in between—once we all had Covid(except my husband who has never tested positive despite enormous exposures), I loosened up greatly. We’ve had it, it’s endemic, we’re all going to get it again I’m sure but it’s no longer  novel to our systems. The vaccines are not foolproof, but they’ve reduced the risk of hospitalization and death to a point I’m comfortable living with.

But it’s a different risk/benefit analysis for everyone, and I think you have to determine what you personally want to accomplish, and then use that to determine reasonableness.  

[Catwoman]

I would skip, unless you will both be wearing high quality masks the entire time. Why take the chance? 

Edited to add — Don’t forget that I am totally paranoid, so my opinion may be somewhat worthless!

Edited November 14, 2021 by Catwoman

[Ausmumof3]

43 minutes ago, Katy said:

If he’s had it twice and been vaccinated after having it twice he is likely immune for now. If he got vaccinated and then caught it, I would assume he has an immunity issue or is lying about the vaccine. 

It’s funny I was thinking in the opposite.  If he’s vaccinated and had it twice maybe his immune systems doesn’t work that well 🙁 to produce antibodies 

[MEmama]

46 minutes ago, Katy said:

If he’s had it twice and been vaccinated after having it twice he is likely immune for now. If he got vaccinated and then caught it, I would assume he has an immunity issue or is lying about the vaccine. 

He had it very early and again late last year— both before vaccinations were available. He’s definitely double vaxxed.

Even if it doesn’t catch it again, can’t he still expose others?

Idk. This feels like a never ending game. My personal world has become so small that I’m not sure what to do when other people's open up.

 

[1234]

I wouldn’t skip but I understand why someone would and I wouldn’t think badly of it.  We’re all vaxxed here but only Dh and I have had boosters. We are hanging out with our college dc (who are definitely out and about) pretty regularly and are back to eating indoors. Dh is also in Vegas at this very moment visiting family we haven’t seen since this all began. He won’t be quarantining or doing anything different when he returns unless he starts feeling ill. We’ve decided that getting our vaccines hopefully means when/if we do get it that we won’t be too ill and are just kind of hoping for the best. Our youngest dc wasn’t doing well with being so worried so we all decided it was for the best to get back to normal as much as we could. At this point I feel most of this is really a personal decision.

[MEmama]

47 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I think you have to decide your goal post with covid and act accordingly.  If your goal post is to never get it, then no, you are not being unreasonable.  Besides, I'm sure you can find a reason to skip during this busy holiday season. 😉

My own goal post is to not risk death or hospitalization for me and mine.  Once ds is fully immunized and I have my booster, we are taking him to a restaurant.  I won't know if the server has been exposed, I won't know if the people at the table behind us are positive...but I am comfortable with the risk within the goals I have set.

Yes, this makes sense. I’m going to have to think on that.

[MEmama]

39 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I would skip, unless you will both be wearing high quality masks the entire time. Why take the chance? 

Edited to add — Don’t forget that I am totally paranoid, so my opinion may be somewhat worthless!

No, I appreciate your paranoia— makes me feel less alone! 🙂 

[maize]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

He had it very early and again late last year— both before vaccinations were available. He’s definitely double vaxxed.

Even if it doesn’t catch it again, can’t he still expose others?

Idk. This feels like a never ending game. My personal world has become so small that I’m not sure what to do when other people's open up.

 

I think you need to weigh the total health and quality of life package you are choosing. You are fully vaccinated and will soon have a booster; you are very well protected against serious illness.

It is looking like covid will be part of our lives in some form for a long time. How small a life do you want to live in the interest of limiting your chances of exposure, and what toll will that take on your overall health and quality of life long-term? Is the trade-off worthwhile?

If there is anxiety involved, it is worth recognizing the irrationality and insatiability of that particular monster--the more we cater to it, the more demanding it grows.

 

[Pam in CT]

Concurring with pp that the first foundational step to figuring out your "perspective" is to re-assess what your COVID goals are, nearly two years and three vax shots in.  It's analytically easier to work to a goal of *every step possibly to avoid contracting it at all," than to attempt to balance risk probabilities that are... soft, at best.  Binary thinking is limiting in all sorts of ways but it's *easier* than constantly sliding scales.

*At this point* in the course of the pandemic, the hospitalization/ deaths data really is pretty compelling that the probability of extended/ miserable hospital stay or death from the Delta variant is very low for vaxxed people in generally good health.  OTOH the number of breakthrough cases -- even if mild -- does appear to be trending up. 

It's reasonable to establish a COVID goal of "staying alive & avoiding the misery/ crippling bills of extended hospital stay." For that, getting vaxxed and boosted, then equilibriating at some (nebulous, moving according to local cases & conditions) Nearly Normal. As an example, this might look like: open communication with friends and family about their vax/booster status, limiting extended/ indoor/ close contact to folks you know to be vaxxed/boosted, privileging outdoor > indoor, well-spaced & -ventilated buildings > crowded spaces, road trips > plane travel.  Shopping indoors but at opening bell, avoiding stadiums and concerts, choosing travel destinations based on COVID conditions.  (FWIW, this is where my husband wants us to be, and I am slowly coming around to it though not quite there yet.)

It is also reasonable to establish a COVID goal of estalishling/ maintaining a longterm balance of "reducing the odds of contracting COVID" against "mitigation measures we reasonably can continue to sustain over a very long haul."  So long as the household can maintain income virtually -- as some can -- that could look substantially more locked down, with ongoing deliveries of food and other supplies, travel limited to road trips to self-contained VRBOs, casual contacts limited to outdoors, close contacts limited to folks known to be vaxxed/boosted.  And *greatly* privileging outdoor > indoor, well-spaced & ventilated > crowded & windowless spaces.  (FWIW this is where we've been since Delta started surging, and where I personally am comfortable, but my husband is chafing.  And the experience that several of my fully vaxxed family members who despite pretty serious mitigation measures have *had* breakthrough cases, but so extremely mild that pre-COVID my old self would not have registered the experience as relevant, have forced me to re-think what my longterm goal is.

 

A final thought that is informing my own goal re-assessment is: the next variant may be WORSE.  The current moment may turn out to be a window. There is an argument for get your booster, and live as freely and fully as you can enjoy while the going is relatively good.

 

All that said, if it were me, at MY current still-morphing goal level... I would ask my friend if/when she planned to get boosted (I firmly believe that open communication is the bedrock on which our future depends).  And if she plans to be boosted by the time of his return... I'd maybe skip one week, then resume.

[cintinative]

you mentioned in the OP that you sometimes go on hikes. Could you do that instead of the coffee? Then you could mask up if you want. 

[Katy]

56 minutes ago, MEmama said:

He had it very early and again late last year— both before vaccinations were available. He’s definitely double vaxxed.

Even if it doesn’t catch it again, can’t he still expose others?

Idk. This feels like a never ending game. My personal world has become so small that I’m not sure what to do when other people's open up.

 

If he caught it twice and then got vaccinated there is very little chance he could spread it to anyone.  Theoretically possible, but highly unlikely.  You're much more likely to get it from a stranger in a coffee shop, or even at grocery pickup.

I'm waiting until my youngest, highest-risk child gets vaccinated.  When everyone in my family is vaccinated we're going to open up dramatically, including kids in indoor lessons and doing foster care again. My goal isn't to never catch it, it's to wait to catch it until it won't be extremely risky to my kid born with heart defects.

[Katy]

dp

Edited November 14, 2021 by Katy

[Faith-manor]

I would be comfortable outside because you are vaxed and he is vaxed. Though I would like to avoid covid forever and actually am more worried about long covid and the impact it will have on my life with two grandsons I want to be able to chase, play, and generally enjoy, I also know that I cannot live life entirely hunkered down forever. Quality of life is an important thing not just quantity. That said, cases are absolutely exploding in Michigan and soon it will be too cold to do outside. So we will remain aloof and distant until spring and then do more again outside with people. We don't want to take it to our unvaxed two year old grandson if we can help it.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Faith-manor

[Syllieann]

Are you worried about the risk of getting in a car accident on your way to the meet up?  Or that your house will be broken into while you're away?  If not, then I don't think you should be worried about the risk of the meet up itself considering his vax status and being outside.  Add a high quality mask and I think you've reduced the risk to infintessimal.

[Catwoman]

38 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Are you worried about the risk of getting in a car accident on your way to the meet up?  Or that your house will be broken into while you're away?  If not, then I don't think you should be worried about the risk of the meet up itself considering his vax status and being outside.  Add a high quality mask and I think you've reduced the risk to infintessimal.

Syllieann, you are always very nice to everyone and I know you don't mean what you said in a snarky way, but when you equate Covid risk with something like driving in a car, it comes across as kind of condescending -- sort of like MEmama would be an idiot to be worried about contracting Covid from her friend if she is not also worried about driving to meet her, or that she will return home to a house that had been broken into.

Again, I hope I'm not coming across as mean -- I absolutely know you mean well and that you were just trying to illustrate that you think MEmama will be safe from contracting Covid if she meets with her friend. It's just that so many people who don't take Covid seriously give the same examples when they are ridiculing those of us who choose to take any precautions at all.

I really hope I don't sound like a complete jerk here. I know what I want to say, but I don't think I'm explaining myself very well, so please let me apologize in advance if you feel like I'm insulting you, because I honestly don't mean to do that!

[DreamerGirl]

I have not read the responses except OP.

Here is how I evaluate risk.

I do not ever want my family or me to get hospitalized or long COVID. It is not an option I am comfortable with. This is the goal and baseline I evaluate risk.

Vaccines are of course the first defense. But they are not foolproof and I have seen enough death among double vaxxed with the delta variant (older people with underlying conditions) in my country of origin. I have seen it enough to take vaccine as one line of defense, the most important line, but one line.

I have never stopped sanitizing, changing out clothes when we go out than we would before (previously we would rewear clothes if we wore it for a little while, now no). This is fairly recent for COVID.

But we have taken other precautions because we travel a lot and not always in the cleanest or places without crowds. I am talking about bumping into people as you walk because it is so crowded.

We always hand wash and carry sanitizer all the time.

We also wear a mask if we need to. Long before COVID landed, we would wear a mask for pollution. Anyone who has seen smog will identify with it. That is why in Asia you can see lots of people wear masks especially in public transportation.

Masks work. Are they foolproof ? No. But it mitigates in my experience.

I would also minimize touching people. If you must, wear gloves. A lot of vaxxed people touched me when I visited my home country, but we always wore gloves.

These have worked so far for us fortunately. 

In your case, I would wear a mask and hike more than go to a cafe. Mental health matters too. 

((Hugs)) It is hard.

 

[Syllieann]

43 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Syllieann, you are always very nice to everyone and I know you don't mean what you said in a snarky way, but when you equate Covid risk with something like driving in a car, it comes across as kind of condescending -- sort of like MEmama would be an idiot to be worried about contracting Covid from her friend if she is not also worried about driving to meet her, or that she will return home to a house that had been broken into.

Again, I hope I'm not coming across as mean -- I absolutely know you mean well and that you were just trying to illustrate that you think MEmama will be safe from contracting Covid if she meets with her friend. It's just that so many people who don't take Covid seriously give the same examples when they are ridiculing those of us who choose to take any precautions at all.

I really hope I don't sound like a complete jerk here. I know what I want to say, but I don't think I'm explaining myself very well, so please let me apologize in advance if you feel like I'm insulting you, because I honestly don't mean to do that!

I definitely don't think driving risk is the same as the risk of something bad happening if someone does catch covid.  But when you take the massive risk reduction of full vaccination plus a booster and layer it over a vaccinated friend and layer that over the vaccinated plus infected husband and layer that over being outdoors and layer that over a mask, I do think the overall risk to her contracting covid in this particular get-together is getting close to the risk of driving.  And then even if she does contract it, everyone she lives with is vaccinated and it sounds like she distances and masks in all other situations so the risk of infecting someone else is exceedingly low. The risk will never be gone because covid is is here to stay.  Unfortunately, we missed our opportunity to crush it.

I didn't mean to sound like a covid-minimizer by my choice of analogy or to imply that anyone is dumb.  I'm just trying to put the risk in context of other things we are more accustomed to living with because the covid risk from this will probably not be substantially lower than it would be to her now for many years.

[sassenach]

Do we have any recorded outdoor transmissions? AFAIK, I don’t think we do [ETA: We have only 3 outdoor transmissions worldwide, thanks for the info]. So I guess my answer is yes, I consider it overly paranoid to avoid outdoor interaction with the partner of a twice infected and fully vaccinated person. However, if it’s all you’ll be thinking about while spending time with her, then it’s not really accomplishing the goal of life enhancing social interaction so I would probably just take a week off. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by sassenach

[Kanin]

I'd be fine with outdoor coffee and hiking 🙂

[rebcoola]

I would go with your explanation of the DH's previous infection he is extremely unlikely to bring home covid at this point.  Hike and wear a mask instead of coffee if it makes you more comfortable.

38 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Do we have any recorded outdoor transmissions?   yes there is recorded outdoor  transmission.  In Australia they genetically trace each infection its not common but does happen.

 

[Katy]

46 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Do we have any recorded outdoor transmissions? AFAIK, I don’t think we do. 

Yes, confirmed in Australia, New Zealand, and China. Nothing about being outside stops viruses.  The fresh air may lower the concentration, but that’s highly dependent on weather. 

[sassenach]

Interesting on the outdoor transmission. The article I read said it was possible that there was a carpooling element to the Australian transmission? I can’t bring myself to be legitimately concerned about spaced outdoor interactions…seems like pissing in a pool- unless you are right up against each other, the water won’t be warmer. But I am somewhere in the middle ground of Covid cautiousness overall, especially for this board. 

[sassenach]

11 minutes ago, Katy said:

Yes, confirmed in Australia, New Zealand, and China. Nothing about being outside stops viruses.  The fresh air may lower the concentration, but that’s highly dependent on weather. 

Yeah I disagree with that. Lots about being outside stops the virus- air circulation, temperature, UV exposure… otherwise we wouldn’t have just 3 confirmed outdoor transmissions (with other possible contributing factors) over the course of nearly 2 years of this. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

6 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Yeah I disagree with that. Lots about being outside stops the virus- air circulation, temperature, UV exposure… otherwise we wouldn’t have just 3 confirmed outdoor transmissions (with other possible contributing factors) over the course of nearly 2 years of this. 

It is possible to recognize that there have been legitimate outdoor transmissions and also recognize that being outdoors even without masks holds a much lower risk. 

[sassenach]

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It is possible to recognize that there have been legitimate outdoor transmissions and also recognize that being outdoors even without masks holds a much lower risk. 

Agree. MUCH, much lower but not impossible. Also, I was only responding to the quote, which said *nothing* about being outdoors stops the virus. 

This actually goes back to the beginning responses about defining your goals, acceptable risk and all that. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by sassenach

[Halftime Hope]

4 hours ago, MEmama said:

He had it very early and again late last year— both before vaccinations were available. He’s definitely double vaxxed.

Even if it doesn’t catch it again, can’t he still expose others?

Idk. This feels like a never ending game. My personal world has become so small that I’m not sure what to do when other people's open up.

 

I think you should approach this from a different angle, and in a way, it gives you an "easy out" with your friend.   

We know that the initial vaccines (data is still being complied about the boosters), cause changes in the immune system that make people susceptible to all kinds of illnesses for the first few weeks after vaccination.  There are charts of spikes in illnesses, both COVID and not, for the first two weeks post-vax. The spike in illness tapers dramatically after the first month.  I am hesitant to couch it in anything other than layman's terms, because I don't think we know what all the puzzle pieces are that are contributing to post-vax illness, whether it's a depressed immune system, that the immune system is "busy" with all that is going on, whether it is just the body reacting to spike protein created, but there is clearly reason to stay sheltered for a couple of weeks so you are not adding challenges for your immune system to overcome.  

Were I in your shoes, I'd tell her you'd love to Facetime with her, but you are aware that your immune system may be busy post-booster, so you're laying low for awhile, in general.  And then stick with it.  (It hurts friendships when someone applies standards arbitrarily.  I've seen it happen in my circle of friends.) 

 

[ktgrok]

Will yo uhave your booster before he returns?

If so, I'd not worry about it. 

Honestly, outdoors, he's vaccinated and recovered, and he'd have to transmit it to his wife, who is vaccinated, and then her transmit it to you, who is vaccinated, requires THREE people to have a breakthrough case. And one of them to catch it outdoors. I think that is unlikely. 

I think if you were hiking with HIM I might skip a week, but vaccination really seems to help prevent spread, so the chances of 1. him catching it and 2. spreading it to a 3. vaccinated person who then 4. transmits it to 5. you, another vaccinated person, while 6. outdoors, is vanishingly small. And I'm pretty paranoid. 

[MEmama]

Thank you, everyone!

You've given me a lot to think about, and I appreciate *all* your perspectives and various ways of framing the root of the concern.

Ironically, we got out of the house today and went to a nearby city for a much needed change of scenery. Ate lunch outdoors (oh how I love those big outdoor heaters!), ventured into a few shops, and ran right out of a couple that were too busy/not enough people were masked. We went out of state (New Hampshire) and were stunned by the lack of masking and social distancing that we are accustomed to in our small town. 
 

 

[Melissa Louise]

6 hours ago, sassenach said:

Interesting on the outdoor transmission. The article I read said it was possible that there was a carpooling element to the Australian transmission? I can’t bring myself to be legitimately concerned about spaced outdoor interactions…seems like pissing in a pool- unless you are right up against each other, the water won’t be warmer. But I am somewhere in the middle ground of Covid cautiousness overall, especially for this board. 

I'm Covid cautious ( to the extent on being on leave from my job) but I made my peace a long time ago with the tiny risk of outdoor transmission. It's just not worth worrying about, imo.

( I would avoid large outdoor events due to concentration of people in pinch points in and out of venue etc.)

But I meet, talk with and drink coffee outdoors with vaxed and partially vaxed friends all the time. 

Idk. Life is for (safely) living. I ask myself 'would I regret getting Covid for the sake of this?'

Lots of things, the answer is yes, so I don't do them. But outdoors, friends, music...happy with the risk. 

[hippymamato3]

7 hours ago, sassenach said:

Do we have any recorded outdoor transmissions? AFAIK, I don’t think we do [ETA: We have only 3 outdoor transmissions worldwide, thanks for the info]. So I guess my answer is yes, I consider it overly paranoid to avoid outdoor interaction with the partner of a twice infected and fully vaccinated person. However, if it’s all you’ll be thinking about while spending time with her, then it’s not really accomplishing the goal of life enhancing social interaction so I would probably just take a week off. 

My friend's two daughters got COVID at 100% outdoor, fully masked summer camp. She was horrified. One got quite sick, one was basically asymptomatic. They were 7 and 11. 

[SKL]

I think that based on your info, your friend's dh is quite unlikely to catch Covid and therefore unlikely to expose you to it.  However, it is possible.  It is also possible that your friend herself could catch Covid in the community.  In fact, if she hasn't previously had Covid herself, that might actually be a more likely risk (depending on how cases are in said community).

Is there a big downside to skipping a week or two?  Or suggesting a lovely outdoor walk before hard winter sets in?

If this were a what-would-I-do, I would not change my plans given your current info.  But my risk acceptance is probably different from yours.

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I think that based on your info, your friend's dh is quite unlikely to catch Covid and therefore unlikely to expose you to it.  However, it is possible.  It is also possible that your friend herself could catch Covid in the community.  In fact, if she hasn't previously had Covid herself, that might actually be a more likely risk (depending on how cases are in said community).

Is there a big downside to skipping a week or two?  Or suggesting a lovely outdoor walk before hard winter sets in?

If this were a what-would-I-do, I would not change my plans given your current info.  But my risk acceptance is probably different from yours.

I think you’re right that the risk level is really low. I think I got in my head after reading on another thread how crazy high the covid cases are right now in Wisconsin; it’s just an entirely different level of community spread and risk than we experience in my area  and I had a moment of panic hearing that her DH would be there for a week or two.

Honestly, my goal is to not get covid. I don’t want it, don't want the long term effects, and don’t want to spread it others. Whether or not it is going to be  possible to avoid forever seems increasingly slim, but I’m willing to continue to make reasonable sacrifices for the long term. Those sacrifices have and will evolve, and I’m okay confronting the hard questions as circumstances necessitate. 
 

I also recognize that my own boundaries aren’t necessarily even. I’m comfortable going into some shops but not others, visiting some areas but not others, socializing in some ways but not others or too often. I’m simultaneously worried about third hand exposure from her DH but when my son comes home from Europe for winter break I’m not going to isolate from him or ask him to. Yet, we isolated ourselves when we returned this fall and numbers there were lower.
 

Idk. It’s all messy. I preferred it when most things were closed and most people could just stay in. Was that really just last year?

[mommyoffive]

14 hours ago, hippymamato3 said:

My friend's two daughters got COVID at 100% outdoor, fully masked summer camp. She was horrified. One got quite sick, one was basically asymptomatic. They were 7 and 11. 

Oh wow.  I am sorry.  I just hear those things and think there isn't a way you can avoid it at this point.  We are careful and mask, but I still think we will get it at some point.  

[mathnerd]

21 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Life is for (safely) living. I ask myself 'would I regret getting Covid for the sake of this?'

This is the question I ask myself before I take a Covid risk as well. If the answer is “no, this is not worth it for me “ I don’t do it. I am far more cautious than most people (wiping down groceries, double masking and avoiding indoor activities) because my answer is “no” for a lot of non-essential activities.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

This is the question I ask myself before I take a Covid risk as well. If the answer is “no, this is not worth it for me “ I don’t do it. I am far more cautious than most people (wiping down groceries, double masking and avoiding indoor activities) because my answer is “no” for a lot of non-essential activities.

Same here.  One thing that I have found very interesting is that so many things that I would have told you were very important to me pre-Covid, are all on my “not worth it” list now. In the past, I literally went shopping and ate out just about every single day, and now I don’t do either one of them. I mean, I shop online, but not in the same way I used to go out to browse around stores just for fun. We were planning a long European vacation, too, and that is still on hold. We used to travel and stay in hotels frequently, but now… nope. 

I would love to get back to a more normal life, but my family’s health is more important to me, so I keep waiting… and waiting… and waiting.

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

This is the question I ask myself before I take a Covid risk as well. If the answer is “no, this is not worth it for me “ I don’t do it. I am far more cautious than most people (wiping down groceries, double masking and avoiding indoor activities) because my answer is “no” for a lot of non-essential activities.

Yep, very very few things are worth the risk to me. 

And if I spread it to someone else after being exposed doing something unnecessary or inconsequential I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself. 

[sassenach]

23 hours ago, MEmama said:

I also recognize that my own boundaries aren’t necessarily even. I’m comfortable going into some shops but not others, visiting some areas but not others, socializing in some ways but not others or too often. I’m simultaneously worried about third hand exposure from her DH but when my son comes home from Europe for winter break I’m not going to isolate from him or ask him to. Yet, we isolated ourselves when we returned this fall and numbers there were lower.
 

Idk. It’s all messy. I preferred it when most things were closed and most people could just stay in. Was that really just last year?

This is so, so relatable. You aren't alone in the unevenness- in fact, I think this is probably the rule. At some point over the last couple of years I was talking to a friend whom I had just asked to make some Covid concession and I had to say out loud that I can't claim to be logical or consistent with any of this. I would love to say I am, but I'm not. So many decisions have been feelings based (this was also a great source of tension within my family). At some point I got comfortable with the fact that how I *feel* about something, and my experience while I'm doing it, is a good enough reason to base my decisions on. It helps that I have a husband that will check me so I don't go into a feelings tunnel, but sometimes it's ok to just say that I'm not going to enjoy this because I'll be worried the whole time, so I'm not going to do it. 

 

((((hugs)))) we're all muddling through

Edited November 16, 2021 by sassenach

[ktgrok]

I want to say that I know breakthrough infections happen, and that outdoor transmission can happen. I just think it is exceedingly unlikely that three breakthrough infections, including vaccinated people transmitting it, AND outdoor transmission will ALL happen in a row, which is what it would take for the husband to infect the OP.