Purpose / Meaning / Joy - Some kind of framework?

[Jenny in Florida]

It's possible you all are sick of hearing about my ongoing existential crisis. If so, I apologize, and I won't hold it against you if you go read something else. Honestly, I'm sick of me, too.

However, if anyone has the energy and patience to help me wrestle with this question a bit, I would appreciate it.

I've been really flailing pretty much since my son finished homeschooling and my daughter moved out in the same summer. I went back to work, starting part-time and then building up. I did a graduate certificate. I've done some volunteering (and continue to do what I can under the current circumstances). I've explored a bunch of self-help resources. I visited a bunch of churches, both in-person and virtually. I've tried diving into hobbies I always felt like I didn't have time to indulge, including putting some of my artsy stuff out in public for the first time. I bought myself a bunch of tickets for theatre and performance events (all of which were cancelled when everything shut down in March). I've spoken to a social worker and worked with a counselor and spent several months on anti-depressants.

But I'm still feeling really lost. 

Don't get me wrong: The pandemic and shutdown, combined with my own health issues over the last 18 months, have definitely not done me any favors, emotionally.  However, I've been pretty much only barely holding it together since way before all of this kicked in. 

What I keep circling around to -- and what the counselor I was meeting with said, too -- is that I just need to find some source of meaning or purpose in my life. I had it as a mom and haven't found anything in the last several years to fill that void.

I just finished an eight-week wellness program run by one of my doctors, and finding meaning/purpose was the theme of one of our sessions. However, it turned out to be more about finding joy, which, to me, is not the same thing at all. (I mean, I haven't been especially good at locating joy recently, either, but still . . . )

The only thing other than my dog that drags me out of bed in the morning is working towards fitness goals. I do virtual walking and stationary biking challenges, and I've been trying to maintain a reasonably healthy weight and generally take better care of myself. And, I mean, it passes the time, but it doesn't approach meaning or purpose.

The best twisted logic I've been able to manage for myself is that taking care of my health means I am less likely to be a burden on my family and that I am able to continue earning money I can use to pay down debt we acquired while I wasn't working and give to organizations I support. 

But that still falls pretty short of "purpose" for me.

So, any thoughts? What gives your daily life shape or meaning? What do you consider your purpose? And, if you ever felt you had lost it, how did you find it again?

 

[regentrude]

I do not have any answer for you, but I sympathize. When my kids moved out, it was a transition period and I thought I had managed to do it ok by going back to work full time, but that did not give me meaning and purpose- it just kept me busy (and it sounds very much like that's what you've been trying, too).
I spent a year trying out a variety of things (I have written about that here and it turned into a long thread I can find for you) and ended up deciding that I wanted to go back to writing. And I did, and it seemed to be the answer for a while,  but did not solve the problem - it just gave me more tools for introspection and processing. And becoming immersed in that made everything much worse. I feel more at loss than a few years ago and struggle to see purpose or meaning (and I completely agree, that is not the same thing as joy! I can manage to find joy at least occasionally, but not purpose.) Life feels like I am just going through the motions, and I don't know what the point is of it all. Oh, and like you, this predated the pandemic by quite some time. The pandemic of course made it worse as everything I had been planning towards new goals and a reinvention of myself has been canceled.
Hugs.

ETA: Therapy was a waste of time and money. The "science of happiness" course was a bunch of platitudes masquerading as data based "science". Gratitude journal didn't help. Hard physical labor in sunshine made me feel better, but didn't answer the question. A somatic repatterning  session with a healer had the biggest effect on how I feel, but did not answer the question either.

2nd ETA: I was thinking of going to grad school again. Started taking classes. Then I realized: I am just doing the same thing I am good at: fulfilling expectations and collecting accomplishments. I have achieved every goal I set myself and can do it again. It may keep the existential boredom at bay for another couple of years because I will be busy. And then I'll have my new degree, and then what? I know that striving and achieving isn't the answer to the question. I know the answer must be found - at least for me - within, and not through external accomplishments. But I don't know how to do it.

Edited November 14, 2020 by regentrude

[Jenny in Florida]

47 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Life feels like I am just going through the motions, and I don't know what the point is of it all.

That's it exactly. I can manage to occupy my time, although I often have to work at it. (My husband is clearly getting pretty impatient with my need to stack up things to do every weekend so I don't have too much time on my hands during the weekend.) But I can't figure out why I'm doing it.

[lewelma]

I help people.  Not crowds, but individuals.  I make deep lasting impacts on a very few number of teens. This gives me meaning.

[Katy]

Sorry for formatting issues, I’m typing on my phone. 
 

My first thought was that this is really common for women, especially good mothers. The advice I’ve heard directed at other moms is to think about a couple of things:

1) Who you were and what your passions were before you had kids. What did you love? Why? What feelings did the things you used to feel passionate about give you? What activities can you do today or soon that would  give you those same feelings?

2) Who can you help?  How?

3) What problems would you like to solve in the world? This doesn’t have to be volunteering. It might be starting a business or raising money for a charity or going back to grad school. 
 

Regarding mental health, you’ll probably find cognitive behavioral therapy more effective. It’s a short course of therapy focused on correcting the ways you lie to yourself. It’s very effective. 

The most helpful person I spoke to when I was sick was an occupational therapist. She told me to:

-Get dressed every day in something other than sweats or yoga pants. It could be a jersey dress that’s as comfortable as sweats, but get dressed. 

-Watch something funny every day. Laugh out loud funny.

- Do something creative every day. 

-Try to spend some time outside every day. Preferably a walk in the morning sunshine, near trees and water. 
 

I would add to that:  There is recent research that breathing exercises- slowing your breathing, taking deeper breaths, lowers cortisol (stress hormones) dramatically.  There are books and apps to help with this. 

Sometimes redecorating has helped my moods dramatically. I didn’t realize the weird muddy yellow paint in one house was giving me anxiety until I repainted and instantly felt better. 

When I was really sick and in severe pain I found a lot of comfort in two books- _90 Minutes in Heaven_  which a chapter or so is about a near death experience. The rest is the useful stuff. It’s about how to live when you’re depressed and in pain and have become someone who needs help instead of giving it. 
 

I also loved _It’s Not About the Bike_ by Lance Armstrong. I haven’t re-read this one since the cheating news broke, but I remember feeling really motivated by it. He talked about dealing with pain and illness and choosing to fight to do something afterwards in a way that I found really inspirational. 

[mum]

It  has been hard for me to find purpose post-homeschooling, too. It has helped me to hear this from other people, it makes it more of a normal transition, rather than something odd. I had 3 kids move out the same summer, one married, one went to grad school and one to college. It was intense.

I have dealt with some health issues. And am still dealing with them. They are a real suck of time and energy.

As I have encouraged my kids to do what they love, even if it's not the traditional career path, I have tried to take that advice for myself. 

These 2 things have helped me.

1. Volunteering. For people. I volunteer in a community garden that grows organic produce for the local food bank. And I help at the food bank with food distribution. It's not the same purpose I felt raising kids. But it's very satisfying, and the community is important to me. 

2. I have always loved to sew, and to sew gifts for others. One of my kids encouraged me to start an Etsy shop. She even helped me get some of it set up. I have had to be ok with being a beginner, doing it imperfectly, just winging it, not knowing how it will go, or where it is going. I realised that these were things that I was encouraging my kids to do, and I had better practice what I was preaching. It has been fun, I have met some people through it, and most importantly, I feel like I have something that's mine. I get to make it what I want. 

 

I hope that maybe you have something that you've always wanted to do, and maybe you might dust that off and have a go?

[Jenny in Florida]

Thanks, @Katy. My first instinct was to start typing out responses to your questions and suggestions, but I don't want to drag the conversation down into the weeds or get tangled in details. I'll just say that I've been pondering the kinds of questions you raised and I have taken -- and continue to take -- the advice to get up, get dressed, go outside, etc. 

As Regentrude said, however, I feel if anything more lost than I did a few years ago.

[Jenny in Florida]

5 minutes ago, mum said:

I hope that maybe you have something that you've always wanted to do, and maybe you might dust that off and have a go?

Thanks. That's what I sort of assumed I would do. I remember quite clearly telling people that, although I loved my kids, I wasn't going to be sad when they grew up and moved out because I was looking forward to "getting my life back." 

Then, at some point, I realized that being a mom and homeschool was my life. Everything else was just filler.

[easypeasy]

It seems to me that you were at your happiest/most fulfilled when your children depended upon you. And, iirc, you managed to raise two fiercely independent kids, right? (which is a GOOD thing, but can leave a mama feeling empty!)

Is there a way to maybe become connected with a youth or two in your area that might really need some help? Do you know any teachers or organizations dedicated to matching people up? Or a homeschool group who knows a mom who has her hands extra-full with a lot of kids, so the older ones aren't getting to DO much? Maybe working with a kid who would love to do extracurricular activities, but has no one to take them, or a kid who plays a sport but has no one to cheer for them in the stands, or who needs help with making sure their homework gets done, or volunteer with the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts regularly... maybe that type of interaction would fulfill the part of your heart that feels empty right now (and might until you have grandkids who need picked up/ tutored/ etc)?

Might not be a helpful suggestion, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway, just in case! 🙂

Edited November 14, 2020 by easypeasy

[mum]

11 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

Thanks. That's what I sort of assumed I would do. I remember quite clearly telling people that, although I loved my kids, I wasn't going to be sad when they grew up and moved out because I was looking forward to "getting my life back." 

Then, at some point, I realized that being a mom and homeschool was my life. Everything else was just filler.

I really understand. Being a mom and homeschooling was my life too. It's all I ever wanted to do. I was good at it. We had fun. 

As I encouraged my kids to follow their passions and talents, I realised that if I didn't make  a life for myself, I was going to get in their way and hold them back from making lives for themselves. And I didn't want my daughters to think that being a mom was all there was in life and then when their kids left home, they would be sad and lost too. I wanted them to see me walking forward and having a life. That they could be a mom and love it, and that they could then do something else too. I have found that doing things with/for other kids was sort of trying to regain what I had 'lost' and it made me feel sad and nostalgic. It has been good for me ( and it's different for everyone) to do something unrelated to kids and teaching. The community garden and food bank are perfect for me-we all need to eat. And my etsy shop gives me something creative. 

[Jenny in Florida]

32 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

It seems to me that you were at your happiest/most fulfilled when your children depended upon you. And, iirc, you managed to raise two fiercely independent kids, right? (which is a GOOD thing, but can leave a mama feeling empty!)

Is there a way to maybe become connected with a youth or two in your area that might really need some help? Do you know any teachers or organizations dedicated to matching people up? Or a homeschool group who knows a mom who has her hands extra-full with a lot of kids, so the older ones aren't getting to DO much? Maybe working with a kid who would love to do extracurricular activities, but has no one to take them, or a kid who plays a sport but has no one to cheer for them in the stands, or who needs help with making sure their homework gets done, or volunteer with the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts regularly... maybe that type of interaction would fulfill the part of your heart that feels empty right now (and might until you have grandkids who need picked up/ tutored/ etc)?

Might not be a helpful suggestion, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway, just in case! 🙂

So, I have done some tutoring and such. For me, though, going into those relationships seeking meaning or purpose kind of feels to me like drafting someone else to play a part in my life, if that makes sense? Those relationships don't feel authentic to me. I do love to be of service, but I tend to find it more fulfilling and meaningful to stay behind the scenes.

[KathyBC]

3 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

It's possible you all are sick of hearing about my ongoing existential crisis. If so, I apologize, and I won't hold it against you if you go read something else. Honestly, I'm sick of me, too.

However, if anyone has the energy and patience to help me wrestle with this question a bit, I would appreciate it.

I've been really flailing pretty much since my son finished homeschooling and my daughter moved out in the same summer. I went back to work, starting part-time and then building up. I did a graduate certificate. I've done some volunteering (and continue to do what I can under the current circumstances). I've explored a bunch of self-help resources. I visited a bunch of churches, both in-person and virtually. I've tried diving into hobbies I always felt like I didn't have time to indulge, including putting some of my artsy stuff out in public for the first time. I bought myself a bunch of tickets for theatre and performance events (all of which were cancelled when everything shut down in March). I've spoken to a social worker and worked with a counselor and spent several months on anti-depressants.

But I'm still feeling really lost. 

Don't get me wrong: The pandemic and shutdown, combined with my own health issues over the last 18 months, have definitely not done me any favors, emotionally.  However, I've been pretty much only barely holding it together since way before all of this kicked in. 

What I keep circling around to -- and what the counselor I was meeting with said, too -- is that I just need to find some source of meaning or purpose in my life. I had it as a mom and haven't found anything in the last several years to fill that void.

I just finished an eight-week wellness program run by one of my doctors, and finding meaning/purpose was the theme of one of our sessions. However, it turned out to be more about finding joy, which, to me, is not the same thing at all. (I mean, I haven't been especially good at locating joy recently, either, but still . . . )

The only thing other than my dog that drags me out of bed in the morning is working towards fitness goals. I do virtual walking and stationary biking challenges, and I've been trying to maintain a reasonably healthy weight and generally take better care of myself. And, I mean, it passes the time, but it doesn't approach meaning or purpose.

The best twisted logic I've been able to manage for myself is that taking care of my health means I am less likely to be a burden on my family and that I am able to continue earning money I can use to pay down debt we acquired while I wasn't working and give to organizations I support. 

But that still falls pretty short of "purpose" for me.

So, any thoughts? What gives your daily life shape or meaning? What do you consider your purpose? And, if you ever felt you had lost it, how did you find it again?

 

Volunteer work. Trying to make life better for people in our community.

Killing time until I have grandkids... jk.... maybe

[Rosie_0801]

I feel better when I can use my personality, so that's what I try to do.

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Jenny in Florida said:

So, I have done some tutoring and such. For me, though, going into those relationships seeking meaning or purpose kind of feels to me like drafting someone else to play a part in my life, if that makes sense? Those relationships don't feel authentic to me. I do love to be of service, but I tend to find it more fulfilling and meaningful to stay behind the scenes.

 

Have you considered fostering dogs or kittens? You mentioned you have a dog; would you be able to help animals that need a foster home? Honestly, the most authentic relationships I've ever had in life were with my pets. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I remember thinking this way when I was younger.  I don't anymore, and I really wish that I could remember how that changed.  I'm not sure that I have any agency in that change.  I think maybe it just happened.  Part of it was letting go of the 'right livelihood' mindset, the idea that that is one big thing that you're supposed to be doing that makes everything else fall into place.  That's flawed on several levels.  At this point I embrace the idea of vocation, which is more lowkey and less sharply focussed.

How I feel now though, I would like to describe:

--I am enough.  I don't have to justify myself or my existence with meaning and purpose.  I don't need to organize my life around one overarching goal all the time.  I do enjoy working toward things, but I don't have to make that the center of my existence.

--But I do meaningful and purposeful things.  I work on improving my health.  I help people in various ways.  I try to spread good cheer (that sounds so hokey but I really mean it.)  I am a good friend to my friends.  My job enables me to serve others in ways that are sometimes extremely meaningful, and other times more mundane but with potential to be important.  I pray for people--this even redeems occasional insomnia, which is very cool.

--Also, I have lived long enough to have seen that learning and experience have value beyond the obvious.  I've seen skills and knowledge and wisdom that seemed irrelevant and discarded become valuable in another context, unexpectedly.  So that is kind of exciting, and when I have a period where I don't feel like I have much purpose I look at it more as gathering tools into my toolbox that will be used later in some way that I can't currently anticipate.  This mental shift is really big.

--I think that creating and serving wisdom and beauty in all aspects of life are truly meaningful and valuable beyond the way that they seem.  

Edited November 14, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[easypeasy]

1 hour ago, Jenny in Florida said:

So, I have done some tutoring and such. For me, though, going into those relationships seeking meaning or purpose kind of feels to me like drafting someone else to play a part in my life, if that makes sense? Those relationships don't feel authentic to me. I do love to be of service, but I tend to find it more fulfilling and meaningful to stay behind the scenes.

ok, crazy question, then. If your meaning and purpose seems to come through raising, 24/7 your own children - what about fostering or even adopting another child? Those are certainly deep, authentic relationships where you could truly make a positive impact on someone's young life while healing your own heart.

DH and I are, in fact, discussing an infant adoption right now (a situation has sort of been dropped into our laps and we're discussing the options). One of the biggest pros for this, for me personally, is enjoying that sense of being needed that I enjoyed when the kids were younger. (A big con for me, though, is that I have soooo many plans now that my kids are older and a new baby would stop that from happening, so it's a hard decision)

[Carol in Cal.]

I'll bet you'd be a fantastic Child Advocate.  CASA groups tend to be awesome.

[Carrie12345]

I’m not there yet, so I have no meaningful experience, but I feel like I’m beginning to get a taste of it. My oldest is in another state. Next kid is at home, but very busy with adult life. Third is in her senior year. But I still have the younger two for “real” momming. For now.

Anyway, I have a lengthy list of things I hope to do and some I’ve already started, but I do worry about how I’m going to actually *feel.  I didn’t have a real adult life before kids, so there isn’t that to draw from.  I didn’t stop having kids while still very young, so it isn’t as if I’ll have a full-on second lifetime to start from scratch like some people who both started and finished early.

I do know that I need to feel like I’m contributing to society. I imagine I’ll take on a bigger role in our local fire department with fundraising and events. I’m open to considering local government. (Like, local-local, micro-level stuff.) I might get more involved in dh’s company if it seems like a good decision at the time.  I’d like to see a food bank in our actual township, perhaps even with delivery service, as all our food banks are scattered around a very large geographical area and there is severely limited public transportation. I’m strongly considering working in foster care in some capacity

”Busy” is something I know I can easily do, but I need some of that busy to be things that fill needs besides my own.

All that to say, I think your existential crisis is normal.

[Ausmumof3]

I’m not there yet so I don’t have personal advice but this seems to be such a common homeschool mum thing.  Actually I think it’s a common mum thing but intensified by homeschooling because homeschooling is intense.  The fact that all the other things are not fulfilling makes me think it’s relationship that you’re missing, that and maybe a bit the feeling of being needed?  Not that you don’t have relationships with your kids but not with the intensity of the early years and of course it’s too soon for grandkids (if ever) The homeschool mums I’ve known in person seem to have found best happiness/purpose through tutoring or helping out with other kids with their learning or fostering, helping out other teens etc.  I don’t know if that’s something that interests you or if there’s avenues for that right now with COVID etc.

[Katy]

I second fostering or being a CASA.  
 

And I think it’s fine to type out the answers here. It can help you crowdsource answers you may not come up with on your own. 

[Ottakee]

I also thought of foster care, respite care (so needed but you only have the kids for 1-14 days) or CASA.

Another option would be to link up with a crisis pregnancy center or local homeless shelter and adopt a single mom to mentor and help out and be a grandma to the kids.  So many out there do not have family support.

[ktgrok]

I'm wondering if lack of purpose is fueling the existential depression or if the depression is fueling the lack of purpose? I'd be careful as to which way I was thinking it went. If the depression is better controlled perhaps the feeling of purpose will be easier to find?

That said, what things, prior to all this, did you feel passionate about? Or, could you do some kind of rotation through some volunteer causes to find one that strikes your fancy now? Given that motherhood was your purpose before I'm leaning toward areas where you serve others, rather than hobbies where you are enjoying yourself, if that makes sense. 

But I'm also concerned that nothing will feel like a purpose or something you could be passionate about while you are dealing with depression. 

Not to be a bummer, lol, but wondering if you are trying to fix a biochemical problem with a spiritual solution. 

[ktgrok]

I know you've been exploring various churches, etc and wondered if you'd read or listened to anything by Richard Rohr? 

Maybe Falling Upward would be interesting? https://amzn.to/3f3cQcT

Or maybe The Wisdom Pattern: Order, Chaos, Reorder https://amzn.to/3f3cQcT

[RootAnn]

No help but just wanted to say I read your whole post & while I wish things were going better for you, I appreciated seeing your update.

[Scarlett]

6 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I remember thinking this way when I was younger.  I don't anymore, and I really wish that I could remember how that changed.  I'm not sure that I have any agency in that change.  I think maybe it just happened.  Part of it was letting go of the 'right livelihood' mindset, the idea that that is one big thing that you're supposed to be doing that makes everything else fall into place.  That's flawed on several levels.  At this point I embrace the idea of vocation, which is more lowkey and less sharply focussed.

How I feel now though, I would like to describe:

--I am enough.  I don't have to justify myself or my existence with meaning and purpose.  I don't need to organize my life around one overarching goal all the time.  I do enjoy working toward things, but I don't have to make that the center of my existence.

--But I do meaningful and purposeful things.  I work on improving my health.  I help people in various ways.  I try to spread good cheer (that sounds so hokey but I really mean it.)  I am a good friend to my friends.  My job enables me to serve others in ways that are sometimes extremely meaningful, and other times more mundane but with potential to be important.  I pray for people--this even redeems occasional insomnia, which is very cool.

--Also, I have lived long enough to have seen that learning and experience have value beyond the obvious.  I've seen skills and knowledge and wisdom that seemed irrelevant and discarded become valuable in another context, unexpectedly.  So that is kind of exciting, and when I have a period where I don't feel like I have much purpose I look at it more as gathering tools into my toolbox that will be used later in some way that I can't currently anticipate.  This mental shift is really big.

--I think that creating and serving wisdom and beauty in all aspects of life are truly meaningful and valuable beyond the way that they seem.  

May I ask how old you are? 

[Selkie]

Much of my purpose, meaning, and joy in life comes from helping animals. It's been my lifelong passion - I was born with a great love for animals and concern for their welfare. My house (and barn) have always been full of animals who needed a home, and I help out at several rescues and sanctuaries. I love having more time to devote to it now that my kids are grown.

I saw a quote that I really liked :

Success is to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.

That sums up how I feel about my purpose in life - I want to help as many lives breathe easy as I possibly can.

 

[PrincessMommy]

Feeling the same way @Jenny in Florida   I wish I had an answer.

I know it is because I invested all these years in raising my kids and being home and now I'm forced into retirement.  Plus, there's the added bonus of watching some of the kids make bad decisions and I feel like I've failed at the one job I had.  😞  

My youngest is 19 and I've been done with homeschooling for almost 10yrs, but I feel like Im still flailing around trying to figure out what I want to do with my life besides babysitting grandkids.  

I'd like to start by volunteering.  I have done that in the past and it does give me some level of life satisfaction.   COVID has made it hard though.   

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

I'm wondering if lack of purpose is fueling the existential depression or if the depression is fueling the lack of purpose? I'd be careful as to which way I was thinking it went. If the depression is better controlled perhaps the feeling of purpose will be easier to find?

...

But I'm also concerned that nothing will feel like a purpose or something you could be passionate about while you are dealing with depression. 

Not to be a bummer, lol, but wondering if you are trying to fix a biochemical problem with a spiritual solution. 

OTOH, it won't help trying to fix a spiritual problem by throwing medication at it. 
The fact that a crisis of meaning is fairly common in our age group seems to suggest that there may be more to it than a chemical imbalance (and it is not actually understood what depression even is - the lack of serotonin is a hypothesis that has not been conclusively substantiated.)
I am in a similar situation as the OP, and my crisis of purpose definitely predated the depression. It just feels different.

[SKL]

I think a sense of purpose, and how to find it, is something that continues to evolve throughout a lifetime.  So I think it's more dependent on who/where you are now than on any "tried and true methods" another person can suggest.

But here's something that helped me when I was having a bit of a crisis.  I sat down and tried to articulate what I'm good at, at a basic level.  After some thought, I came up with the realization that I'm really good at organizing things out of chaos.  That was the basic talent underlying most of the contributions I've ever made, whether at home, at work, or in the community.

So given that basic talent, what are some ways it can be used to make the world better?  The answers may be completely different from anything you previously thought of as service.  It may be back room and not very glamorous.  But that doesn't make it less important.  The best you can do is whatever you're best at.

If this sounds cheesy and unhelpful to you, I'm sorry.  It's the best I have.  😛

[EKS]

11 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

What I keep circling around to -- and what the counselor I was meeting with said, too -- is that I just need to find some source of meaning or purpose in my life. I had it as a mom and haven't found anything in the last several years to fill that void.

I'm right there with you.

Lately, I've begun to realize that the reason everything else seems to be time filling rather than fulfilling a purpose is that the single most important thing one does in life is raise children.  It is what links past to future and is literally what it means to be human.  Everything else is contrived.  Our society does its best to tell people that raising children is, at best, a side gig, but homeschooling parents who are all-in embrace the truth of the importance of parenting every single day.  And once the truth is seen, it can't be unseen.

I guess what I'm saying here is that perhaps you feel the way you do because it's true--that, when it comes to meaning, there is nothing more important than parenting.  Perhaps acknowledging that nothing can ever have the same level of meaning again would free you to experience other activities on their own terms.

I say this as much to myself as to you.

[regentrude]

Much of what is suggested to find purpose and meaning centers on doing something. But I have lately been wondering: what if that is the wrong avenue to explore? I can do things that are worthwhile, keep busy by more doing and achieving - but what if there is an innate meaning and purpose in just Being? I am by no means able to embrace that yet, but studying Zen has me thinking of all beings being connected and part of the fabric of the universe and that perhaps being enough of a reason for living.
There is a whole philosophical issue with the purpose-by-doing: what does that mean for the meaning of a person who cannot do/achieve/accomplish? Is there meaning to life when one is "useless"? Is there meaning at all?

[regentrude]

21 minutes ago, EKS said:

Lately, I've begun to realize that the reason everything else seems to be time filling rather than fulfilling a purpose is that the single most important thing one does in life is raise children.  It is what links past to future and is literally what it means to be human.  Everything else is contrived. 

Ouch. That's a slap in the face of every human who does not have children.

[EKS]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Ouch. That's a slap in the face of every human who does not have children.

It is not a judgment.  It is a biological fact.

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

It is not a judgment.  It is a biological fact.

Is procreation "what it means to be human"? How then is that different from being a cow or a cockroach?

[EKS]

8 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Is procreation "what it means to be human"? How then is that different from being a cow or a cockroach?

I didn't say "procreation."  I said "raising children."  

[J-rap]

13 minutes ago, EKS said:

I'm right there with you.

Lately, I've begun to realize that the reason everything else seems to be time filling rather than fulfilling a purpose is that the single most important thing one does in life is raise children.  It is what links past to future and is literally what it means to be human.  Everything else is contrived.  Our society does its best to tell people that raising children is, at best, a side gig, but homeschooling parents who are all-in embrace the truth of the importance of parenting every single day.  And once the truth is seen, it can't be unseen.

I guess what I'm saying here is that perhaps you feel the way you do because it's true--that, when it comes to meaning, there is nothing more important than parenting.  Perhaps acknowledging that nothing can ever have the same level of meaning again would free you to experience other activities on their own terms.

I say this as much to myself as to you.

I think this is very astute.   I don't think having children is necessarily what is most essential (although it certainly is if you are a parent), but rather, being a very valued and necessary part of a family group (or family-like group), which might play out in having children, or other roles within that group.  And it's why I lament how the world has changed in some ways...  Long ago, after your children were grown, or after you became an adult, you were still living within your traditional family group where you then become grandparents, or perhaps mentors, or numerous other roles which were important and necessary in order for the group to continue to function in a healthy way.   So you were still part of a big, close family or group that shared its meals together and lived life together.  You still had roles that were expected of you, and you still felt busy and useful, necessary and valued.

Now, in our independent society, children move on and being part of their parents' lives is more of a peripheral role, and each small-family group is mostly on their own.   Or, if not married or without children, you are still expected to move on and be independent.  Sometimes I dream about living in a type of commune, where we all have our own small homes within a village square but still live life together, sharing a meal together everyday in a big central kitchen, and with lots of overlaps all day long where we're with each other, helping each other, encouraging each other, enjoying each other.    

[Frances]

11 hours ago, lewelma said:

I help people.  Not crowds, but individuals.  I make deep lasting impacts on a very few number of teens. This gives me meaning.

This is the same for me, but not with teens. As much as I hate all of the health stuff my mom is dealing with during the pandemic while I’m 2,000 miles away, I’m spending lots of time handling everything I possibly can in terms of logistics and frequently talking to her. Even though it can be very stressful, it gives me meaning. It’s the same with my job. When I have a connection with someone who I’m doing work for and I know my work is making a difference for them, that is far different than doing similar work in a general way. Right now I don’t have a volunteer gig that fits well around my full-time job, but in my neighborhood and with my friends I try to help where I can with meals, child care, organizing gatherings, visiting older neighbors, etc. Making a difference in a concrete way in someone else’s life gives me meaning. Even doing small things for my husband like preparing meals gives me meaning. Previously, the bulk of this meaningful time was spent on parenting. Now that my son is a young adult, that is no longer true and I’ve found other avenues. 

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, EKS said:

I didn't say "procreation."  I said "raising children."  

You are saying raising children is what it means to be human?

 

[J-rap]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

This is the same for me, but not with teens. As much as I hate all of the health stuff my mom is dealing with during the pandemic while I’m 2,000 miles away, I’m spending lots of time handling everything I possibly can in terms of logistics and frequently talking to her. Even though it can be very stressful, it gives me meaning. It’s the same with my job. When I have a connection with someone who I’m doing work for and I know my work is making a difference for them, that is far different than doing similar work in a general way. Right now I don’t have a volunteer gig that fits well around my full-time job, but in my neighborhood and with my friends I try to help where I can with meals, child care, organizing gatherings, visiting older neighbors, etc. Making a difference in a concrete way in someone else’s life gives me meaning. Even doing small things for my husband like preparing meals gives me meaning. Previously, the bulk of this meaningful time was spent on parenting. Now that my son is a young adult, that is no longer true and I’ve found other avenues. 

I think what you are doing is even more ideal than volunteering.  Because it's doing what needs to be done to help those around you or whose lives intersect yours, naturally.  

[EKS]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

You are saying raising children is what it means to be human?

I'm saying it is the most important thing human beings do.  When I said it is "literally" what it means to be human, I meant in the biological sense.

[Frances]

11 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

Thanks. That's what I sort of assumed I would do. I remember quite clearly telling people that, although I loved my kids, I wasn't going to be sad when they grew up and moved out because I was looking forward to "getting my life back." 

Then, at some point, I realized that being a mom and homeschool was my life. Everything else was just filler.

Would you be interested in working to make a difference in the lives of other children or teens? Do you think that would give you meaning? Two volunteer gigs I would like to pursue here when I’m not working full-time are being a court appointed special advocate (CASA) for youth going through the foster system and volunteering at the local high school program that helps teens as they investigate and pursue careers, colleges, scholarships, etc.

Edited to add that I see several people already suggested CASA volunteering. I think you would be great at it if you could make it work around your schedule.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Frances

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

I'm saying it is the most important thing human beings do.  When I said it is "literally" what it means to be human, I meant in the biological sense.

thanks for clarifying. 

[regentrude]

Jenny, I hope you don't mind me saying so many things here in your thread... I have been thinking about this so much.

For the many folks who have suggested volunteering and finding people to help: do you consider the inherent meaning and purpose of life to be needed by other people? 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

It may be back room and not very glamorous.  But that doesn't make it less important.  The best you can do is whatever you're best at.

If this sounds cheesy and unhelpful to you, I'm sorry.  It's the best I have.  😛

Not cheesy at all. And, in fact, I much prefer back room, unglamorous jobs. 

[Jenny in Florida]

51 minutes ago, EKS said:

I'm right there with you.

Lately, I've begun to realize that the reason everything else seems to be time filling rather than fulfilling a purpose is that the single most important thing one does in life is raise children.  It is what links past to future and is literally what it means to be human.  Everything else is contrived.  Our society does its best to tell people that raising children is, at best, a side gig, but homeschooling parents who are all-in embrace the truth of the importance of parenting every single day.  And once the truth is seen, it can't be unseen.

I guess what I'm saying here is that perhaps you feel the way you do because it's true--that, when it comes to meaning, there is nothing more important than parenting.  Perhaps acknowledging that nothing can ever have the same level of meaning again would free you to experience other activities on their own terms.

I say this as much to myself as to you.

I would agree with much of what you wrote, except that I would add the words "for me" in a few places.

"For me, the single most important thing I will do in my life is raise my children."

"For me, nothing is more important than embracing parenting and home-educating in the all-in way I did. Nothing will ever have the same level of  meaning again for me."

After struggling with the issue for going on six or seven years now, I recognize the fact that this is true for me. I acknowledge I will not likely ever find anything as fulfilling (and exhausting and crazy-making and stressful) as parenting/homeschooling. But I'm still trying to find something besides taking the dog outside to pee that makes it worth getting out of bed in the morning.

[Frances]

55 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I think this is very astute.   I don't think having children is necessarily what is most essential (although it certainly is if you are a parent), but rather, being a very valued and necessary part of a family group (or family-like group), which might play out in having children, or other roles within that group.  And it's why I lament how the world has changed in some ways...  Long ago, after your children were grown, or after you became an adult, you were still living within your traditional family group where you then become grandparents, or perhaps mentors, or numerous other roles which were important and necessary in order for the group to continue to function in a healthy way.   So you were still part of a big, close family or group that shared its meals together and lived life together.  You still had roles that were expected of you, and you still felt busy and useful, necessary and valued.

Now, in our independent society, children move on and being part of their parents' lives is more of a peripheral role, and each small-family group is mostly on their own.   Or, if not married or without children, you are still expected to move on and be independent.  Sometimes I dream about living in a type of commune, where we all have our own small homes within a village square but still live life together, sharing a meal together everyday in a big central kitchen, and with lots of overlaps all day long where we're with each other, helping each other, encouraging each other, enjoying each other.    

I’ve also dreamed of that type of living, even though I’m a very strong introvert. The absolute best housing situation I ever experienced was when my husband and I were RAs in an international family housing complex while he was in grad school. The second best was one summer when I was in grad school and we rented a room in a house with complete strangers and we all quickly became very close. We cooked and ate dinner together most nights and also went out together to do fun stuff. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Frances

[EKS]

1 minute ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I would agree with much of what you wrote, except that I would add the words "for me" in a few places.

Except that that is not what I was saying. 

I believe it is an essential truth, one that, unfortunately, our society is largely choosing to ignore.

[Frances]

8 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Jenny, I hope you don't mind me saying so many things here in your thread... I have been thinking about this so much.

For the many folks who have suggested volunteering and finding people to help: do you consider the inherent meaning and purpose of life to be needed by other people? 

 

I consider making a positive difference in the lives of others, whether humans or animals, to be the inherent meaning and purpose of life. While other things can bring my joy and temporary happiness, only doing for others brings me deep meaning and purpose.

[klmama]

I keep coming back to the catechism:

What is man's primary purpose?  Man's primary purpose is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever.  

That begs the question of how exactly does one glorify God?  Jesus's answer in Mark 12:30-31 to being asked about the greatest commandment seems to address that:

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’  There is no commandment greater than these.”

 

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, Frances said:

I consider making a positive difference in the lives of others, whether humans or animals, to be the inherent meaning and purpose of life. While other things can bring my joy and temporary happiness, only doing for others brings me deep meaning and purpose.

so what would be the meaning of life of a person who cannot do that? Does such life not have inherent meaning?
Or is their existence only meaningful because it provides others a way to derive meaning?