Florida COVID trends

[ktgrok]

15 hours ago, GGardner said:

 

Forgive the off-topic post, but I think a lot of us are weirded out by images of the former times, with people not wearing masks, in large groups, casually being close to each other, in large groups indoors, etc. etc. etc.

So, what's it like to write of love before the time of covid? I assume your current book is set before covid. Is it weird to write about this time?  Cathartic?  Difficult?  Would you ever set a book during quarantine?  Or is it nice to escape to a world where this never happened?

It hasn't been too bad writing it, but I do find myself weirded out reading about people being in close contact, etc, until I get really into the book. 

[cintinative]

Asking prayer for my SIL's grandpa currently in a Tampa hospital.  It's a super long story but because of COVID (in general, he doesn't have it), no family can be present with him, and also because of COVID, getting a hold of the hospital staff to ask about his status is difficult. Because he has a UTI/sepsis, he is experiencing dementia and refusing care.   It's super complicated but super sad.

My FL family is really feeling discouraged because they have been really so careful and locked down for so long and are now facing many more weeks/months of the same. It's just hard. Praying for all of the boardies experiencing the same. 

[ktgrok]

Praying. 

[cintinative]

Broward county today.  This is worse than my state.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by cintinative

[Wheres Toto]

My brother, who lives in Florida and works for Disney, is taking a trip to Tennessee in a few weeks.   Because it's already paid for and non-refundable.   Driving for hours, stopping for food.  Not worried because Tennessee's numbers are low (like they want people coming from Florida to visit).  He also thinks Florida's numbers are going down because they said it on the radio.  

I can't even talk to him anymore.  

[ktgrok]

The state over the last two weeks. And we had another 134 new deaths in the last 24 hours. 

My county looks to be improving some, thanks hopefully to the mask mandate, but still 7.5% and there is a backlog of tests so that's old info. 

[ktgrok]

Deaths still going up, we had 140 for the state in the last 24 hours, and 14 just in my county 😞

And I STILL see places with cases rising saying, "but our deaths are not going up" and I'm like, "YET!!!!!"

Waiting until deaths are up is too late. It's what we did. It was a terrible plan. 

New cases averaging over 11K a day. We did dip down closer to 10 percent positivity, which is an improvement, so maybe we will start seeing some downward trends, hopefully not too late. Meanwhile, sports practices across the state start next week. Sigh. 

[ktgrok]

My mom (very high risk) just told me her neighbors have Covid. She's in Brevard County. Neighbors have had visitors and family in and out the whole pandemic, and had a party on July 4th. Because why let a little thing like a deadly virus keep you from celebrating Murica. Sigh. 

I know my mom should be safe in her house, but it is VERY upsetting that people who felt they could act that way have now brought the virus literally next door to my mom. 

And being told that I shouldn't judge, everyone makes their own decisions based on their own evaluation of the risk, etc is not helping my mood. Don't have a party in a pandemic!

[ktgrok]

Record deaths today, 173. Back up over 10K cases. 18 deaths in my county.  But the governor says things are getting better. Schools will be safe. Oh, and football practice starts in three days. 

[ktgrok]

Hospitalizations still going up, despite the emergency room stats being supposedly lower. 

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

*Breaking News*

In person republican convention in Jacksonville FL has been made virtual

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-cancels-person-republican-convention-jacksonville-florida-n1234765

oh thank goodness!

[ktgrok]

Oh thank heavens, they rescinded the original decision and postponed fall school sports after all! https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/highschool/os-sp-fhsaa-board-july-meeting-0723-20200724-z7zknws4azapzn4ssau7fdtzxa-story.html

On 7/22/2020 at 11:30 AM, Ktgrok said:

And I STILL see places with cases rising saying, "but our deaths are not going up" and I'm like, "YET!!!!!"

 

I keep thinking about that Broadway star who spent 10 weeks in the hospital before he died.

ETA:  After looking it up, he spent 95 days in the hospital with covid before he died.  13 weeks.  And a leg amputation.

Edited July 24, 2020 by GGardner

[mumto2]

I am curious......................  hoping they publish the contributing factors with numbers eventually. A breakdown would be so informative.
 

http://cbs12.com/news/local/i-team-deaths-incorrectly-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county

[ktgrok]

 

7 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

I am curious......................  hoping they publish the contributing factors with numbers eventually. A breakdown would be so informative.
 

http://cbs12.com/news/local/i-team-deaths-incorrectly-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county

Yeah, coding errors in general are not new. They found an error in 1.38 percent of the cases. IF we say that none are accidentally coded wrong the other direction, and IF the rest of the counties have a similar error rate, and IF those errors were not caught by the Department of Health which the person interviewed says they should be, that means 78 out of the 5,653 deaths in Florida are not actually Covid deaths. Hardly a reason for people like the woman suing the county over masks to think this is all over nothing. We still have over 5,500 deaths in the state!

[cintinative]

35 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

I am curious......................  hoping they publish the contributing factors with numbers eventually. A breakdown would be so informative.
 

http://cbs12.com/news/local/i-team-deaths-incorrectly-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county

 

This is not the same scenario described here, but similar.  https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/07/fact-check-florida-motorcycle-death-is-not-undermining-state-covid-death-data.html?fbclid=IwAR2q0W9SPBR3t8-K7GdZeFBfcLlR8xrb2LyDcVNlzvuiiPduI2cjOdIMT-M

However, in this case, the idea that the motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID death was disproven.

[Lady Florida.]

16 hours ago, GGardner said:

 

I keep thinking about that Broadway star who spent 10 weeks in the hospital before he died.

ETA:  After looking it up, he spent 95 days in the hospital with covid before he died.  13 weeks.  And a leg amputation.

And he was young and healthy, proving that the virus doesn't discriminate.

It's so frustrating to see our governor dig his heels in and repeatedly insist things are getting better. Repeatedly saying a statewide mask mandate is not necessary and that he absolutely will NOT give a mandate. If Florida had a recall process I'm sure we'd be getting rid of him this summer. Instead we have no option but to wait until the 2022 election year (the state Congress could impeach/remove him, but there's no way they will, being of the same political stripe as he is).

[Lady Florida.]

20 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Huge answer to prayer ! I can't recognize you if you passed me on the street but somehow I saw your face when I saw this and came to post here. I am so happy this happened and for your state. 

Slightly off topic but your post reminded me of this meme. I think it's in the Covid-19 meme thread. No one recognizes anyone anymore. 😂

 

58 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

And he was young and healthy, proving that the virus doesn't discriminate.

 

I wonder if younger / healthier people who do die of covid take longer to die than others.  This would push out the death rate that we see from day-to-day even further.

[TracyP]

17 hours ago, GGardner said:

 

I wonder if younger / healthier people who do die of covid take longer to die than others.  This would push out the death rate that we see from day-to-day even further.

What I have heard is that younger people usually die more quickly. The explanation was that more of them die from cytokine storms, instead of the slower progressing pneumonia that is seen in older patients. 

[cintinative]

This is the first child death in FL that I am aware of where there are no reported preexisting conditions.  She was 9 years old.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/07/27/9-year-old-florida-girl-believed-to-be-states-youngest-covid-19-death/

[PeterPan]

25 minutes ago, cintinative said:

This is the first child death in FL that I am aware of where there are no reported preexisting conditions.  She was 9 years old.

Are we never going to question these "no pre-existing" claims? The broadway guy was visibly unwell and the girl was visibly overweight even from the face shot. And obese kids have health problems. But still the media makes these claims.

Reality is the cytokine storms happen and we don't yet have a way to predict. 23andme is letting people participate in genetics tracing for covid experiences, so maybe they'll get it figured out. 

[cintinative]

23 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Are we never going to question these "no pre-existing" claims? The broadway guy was visibly unwell and the girl was visibly overweight even from the face shot. And obese kids have health problems. But still the media makes these claims.

Reality is the cytokine storms happen and we don't yet have a way to predict. 23andme is letting people participate in genetics tracing for covid experiences, so maybe they'll get it figured out. 

 

I might be preaching to the choir here, but the arguments I have seen are that children who do NOT have preexisting conditions are unlikely to have any kind of severe version of COVID.  This is part of the reason that some school systems feel comfortable opening.  I am not aware of any other children who have died with no reported preexisting conditions (other than this one) but I only follow Ohio and Florida.  So I could be wrong. 

I don't disagree on the cytokine storms issue being of major concern.

As far as the girl being visibly overweight, I am behind in the latest studies but isn't that pretty common in the U.S. lately (overweight children)?  

[Sneezyone]

2 days ago. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.montgomeryadvertiser.com/amp/5495002002

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I am not aware of any other children who have died with no reported preexisting conditions (other than this one) but I only follow Ohio and Florida. 

There was a boy, nonverbal with ASD, and they tried to make it sound like his death was unexpected and mysterious. Then you saw the pics and read the fine print. So yes the media is skewing things. I think the deaths are horrible and I'm with you I'm surprised the cytokine storms don't affect the kids if they're genetic. My ds is having a hard time with masks and I've been thinking how he's on that line where risk goes up. Sigh.

[cintinative]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

There was a boy, nonverbal with ASD, and they tried to make it sound like his death was unexpected and mysterious. Then you saw the pics and read the fine print. So yes the media is skewing things. I think the deaths are horrible and I'm with you I'm surprised the cytokine storms don't affect the kids if they're genetic. My ds is having a hard time with masks and I've been thinking how he's on that line where risk goes up. Sigh.

 

Do you think the nonverbal/ASD is a possible factor because of the neurological aspect--in possibly too simple terms, that COVID interacts with the neurological function and so kids with these types of challenges might be impacted disproportionately than neurotypical kids?   That would make me concerned for several friends' kids. 

[Matryoshka]

27 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Are we never going to question these "no pre-existing" claims? The broadway guy was visibly unwell and the girl was visibly overweight even from the face shot. And obese kids have health problems. But still the media makes these claims.

The Broadway guy was 41 thin and fit and sang and danced for a living, which takes a lot of stamina. I've seen lots of pics, and he looks fine to me, and I've seen nothing about his having any health problems. Why do you think he 'looked' visibly unwell?

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, cintinative said:

 

Do you think the nonverbal/ASD is a possible factor because of the neurological aspect--in possibly too simple terms, that COVID interacts with the neurological function and so kids with these types of challenges might be impacted disproportionately than neurotypical kids?   That would make me concerned for several friends' kids. 

Reading the article, I think his communication and interoception (self-awareness) difficulties made it difficult for him to realize what he was feeling and self-advocate. By the time his family realized something was wrong, he had blood sugar of 15,000 (you read that right) and passed out. All he ever said was he "felt tired." 

It's something we're concerned about, whether kids like mine can sefl-advocate, and here it killed him. Well that and they literally refused him remdesivar.

6 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

The Broadway guy was 41 thin and fit and sang and danced for a living, which takes a lot of stamina. I've seen lots of pics, and he looks fine to me, and I've seen nothing about his having any health problems. Why do you think he 'looked' visibly unwell?

Color was terrible and I think had some known problems. My dd mentioned them when I asked. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by PeterPan

[Matryoshka]

Just now, PeterPan said:

Reading the article, I think his communication and interoception (self-awareness) difficulties made it difficult for him to realize what he was feeling and self-advocate. By the time his family realized something was wrong, he had blood sugar of 15,000 (you read that right) and passed out. All he ever said was he "felt tired." 

Color was terrible and I think had some known problems. My dd mentioned them when I asked. 

That's his skin color - it's olive, he's Italian. What problems? Like I said, I've seen nothing mentioned. 

[Corraleno]

I don't understand the point of dismissing deaths on the basis that the person must have had some underlying condition, as if that means it doesn't really "count" somehow??? Around 40% of US adults have some factor that makes them higher risk, and 20% of school-aged children are overweight. But as long as most of the deaths are just in old people and fat kids and those with health problems, then "phew, at least it's not going to affect me"??? I do. not. understand. this sentiment. 

[cintinative]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 20% of school-aged children are overweight.

This is why I questioned this above. If being overweight while a child is a preexisting condition (I can't say either way), there are a lot of children at risk, and that is terrible. 

I agree we need to be careful about how we discuss preexisting conditions.  I think this goes back to the comment I made in another thread about how we can hear the numbers for so long we can become numb to the idea that these are real people and they have families and people that love them.  We must truly fight against this. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

 

In our hospital group, all the kids are back. Every single one of them has at least one significant condition, many of them ( like mine) have multiple. We are careful, but there are tradeoffs and nobody was willing to keep making them for the vanishingly small risk of the child dying, compared to the actual visible impacts of staying distant and doing class and therapy via telehealth. Not a single one. 

Back where? Therapy? Hospital visits? Regular public school?

There is a huge difference between say, a well supervised therapy visit and a highschool campus with 4,000 teenagers. Huge. 

[Matryoshka]

6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Back where? Therapy? Hospital visits? Regular public school?

There is a huge difference between say, a well supervised therapy visit and a highschool campus with 4,000 teenagers. Huge. 

Yeah, all of my kids have been doing PT and doctor visits for months, but they're all planning on online-only school. Apples, oranges.

[chiguirre]

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Back where? Therapy? Hospital visits? Regular public school?

There is a huge difference between say, a well supervised therapy visit and a highschool campus with 4,000 teenagers. Huge. 

This. Gw has been going to his day program, but their regimen would not be possible in a larger environment. They wear masks all day except for lunch or when they can isolate in their own enclosed space. They stay 6 feet apart. The therapists and staff have N95 masks because they're a medical facility and managed to find a supplier. School districts and individual teachers won't have as easy a time. They check temperatures at drop off. There's a daily health questionnaire. They constantly sanitize surfaces. When one client tested positive for Covid, they shut down for a week.

These measure won't be possible in a public school. Just enforcing constant masking would be a problem. At GW's program, everyone (and that everyone is a bunch of clients with ASD2 and ASD3) wears a mask. If you can't wear a mask, you have to do telehealth. If a bigger school shuts down for a week every time someone tests positive, they'll never be in school. Most schools will not have families dedicated to isolating themselves as much as possible while maintaining employment so that one member of the family can attend school. 

[Corraleno]

3 minutes ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

I think the best option are districts allowing for full virtual without requiring it. Let each family choose what they want to live with as their tradeoffs.

And do the teachers (and all the subs who will be needed as backup when the primary teachers get sick and/or die) also get to choose the level of risk they are comfortable with, or are they just supposed to sacrifice themselves for the greater good?

[AmandaVT]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Reading the article, I think his communication and interoception (self-awareness) difficulties made it difficult for him to realize what he was feeling and self-advocate. By the time his family realized something was wrong, he had blood sugar of 15,000 (you read that right) and passed out. All he ever said was he "felt tired." 

It's something we're concerned about, whether kids like mine can sefl-advocate, and here it killed him. Well that and they literally refused him remdesivar.

Color was terrible and I think had some known problems. My dd mentioned them when I asked. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/broadaway-actor-nick-cordero-dies-after-battle-coronavirus-n1232943

No known pre-existing conditions. But even if he had, it's still a freaking tragedy. 

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Reading the article, I think his communication and interoception (self-awareness) difficulties made it difficult for him to realize what he was feeling and self-advocate. By the time his family realized something was wrong, he had blood sugar of 15,000 (you read that right) and passed out. All he ever said was he "felt tired." 

It's something we're concerned about, whether kids like mine can sefl-advocate, and here it killed him.

I didn't look at this story, but I think this is an issue across the board for people with developmental disabilities. We had a set of sisters in our neighborhood who lived together and who had very similar health histories. One sister had mild ID; the other did not (and I think the NT sister had more health issues). Anyway, the one with ID had an exacerbation of a heart issue they both had, but she didn't notice it until it was too late, and she died a few days later. It's a common enough condition that it probably could've been addressed with a dosage change in her meds. 

I think I've also heard/read that people with ASD sometimes have immune differences, though I don't know a lot about that. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

 

I don’t care if high school is busier or different, a child on a trach is not at lower risk than a healthy high schooler. But again, tradeoffs. This is where I try not to eyeroll, because there seems to be a loss of scale among many parents in understanding just how ‘at risk’ their specific children are - more have committed suicide during Covid than have died from it in the 18 and under set. The concerns about spread to other family members are at least a bit more understandable. 
 

But we have already talked about my feelings on kids going back. I’m just saying it isn’t because I am not personally assuming major risk and therefore it’s an ‘other people’ problem. 
 

I think the best option are districts allowing for full virtual without requiring it. Let each family choose what they want to live with as their tradeoffs.

Right of course the high school students are not more at risk in the sense that if they get it, they are less risk of severe illness. But the risk to the community at large is much much much higher. And the risk of transmission within the school is higher. If a few thousand teens give eachother Covid at school, the whole community is then at risk. Not just the teens that chose to attend. 

Your family is exposed to the 30 kids there. My sister will be exposed to probably three thousand kids a day, plus another couple hundred staff members. Your kid is definitely more at risk of complications. But she's more at risk of getting it. And her community is more at risk of lots and lots of people getting it, and hospitals being overwhelmed, from the thousands of teens who think they are invincible in her school than your community is by the 30 kids in a program where everyone is cognizant of medical precautions. 

2 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

 

I will also add, my mother is a school district employee, and my stepfather is very high risk by age and conditions. I’m not exactly outside the loop on this one personally. But it still doesn’t change anything, her job is needed by her and the district. So life goes on. I think she is pushing hard for more remote but we will see.

Yeah...it's that bolded part that trips me up. It doesn't go on for the thousands in my state that died already from this. If school kids/teens pass this around the community and overwhelm our already hard hit hospitals, it won't go on for a whole lot more. 

Life goes on is an ironic statement when discussing a deadly disease. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Ktgrok

[cintinative]

@Bagels McGruffikin I am going to say this as gently as I can. For some people, COVID turns into months and months of suffering. They cannot work. They cannot take care of their families. And some of them cannot pay their medical bills.  There is so much more to this than just death, and there always has been.   Unfortunately I have seen news coverage and political coverage that takes the view that deaths are the only important metric. This is just not the case. If my husband were to become very ill, never truly recover, not be able to work, and become someone I have to be a caregiver for, that would be very life altering for us. Would it be more life-altering than if he had died? I don't know. I don't want to think about that.  

Gently, the statements "People get sick all the time. They die all the time," are not consistent with the empathy reflected in the Christian worldview I have heard you express on these boards. So please hear me saying to you as a sister in Christ, please reconsider how you say these things. Each of those people was created in the image of God and their lives matter.  Their suffering matters to God. The suffering of the medical professionals who care for them matters to God.  

Edited July 28, 2020 by cintinative

[Ausmumof3]

For some reason now this thread is making me think of Emily Dickinson “because I could not stop for death, he kindly stopped for me”.  Sorry that adds nothing to the discussion but it just came to mind.

[cintinative]

12 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think perhaps, gently, that you don't quite remember that the person you are speaking to knows exactly about a lifetime of suffering due to medical events.  

 

I remember, and that is why I expect empathy from you. I won't pursue this further. This is supposed to be a thread about Florida, but it massively derailed. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by cintinative

[cintinative]

3 minutes ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

I understand suffering, but death is a part of life, and a part of plan God is working for his glory. It is not to be feared, he conquered that. And suffering is part of our experience here in earth. You’re missing something if you think my Christianity has done anything but make me cling much less tightly to my physical body and my loved ones. There is so much more, and we are not the ones at the wheel of this ship.

In some ways I’m very thankful to keep facing down mortality, in various ways. It just reminds me how little all this actually matters, except for how we use our time for ministering to our families and the people God brings into our path.

You’re missing it if you think I’m not intimately aware of the purpose of suffering and death, and how to handle it without losing my faith or myself. You think the doctor loves my parents more than me, because I understand their mortality and the balance of how to spend time we are not guaranteed?

Don’t answer, these are rhetorical 😑

 

We are not talking about the same thing. Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus even though He knew that He would raise him to life. He wept at Jerusalem even though He knew they would turn their hearts away and the temple would be destroyed.  You can know intellectually that suffering happens, that death happens, and you can feel settled that it is not in your hands. But that does not mean that you should not at times weep with those who weep.  Possibly if we were in person we would not find we disagree. An online forum is a poor place for this conversation.  So I am ducking out and returning to a discussion of FL, because my family lives there, and I am concerned for them.

[Joker]

39 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think perhaps, gently, that you don't quite remember that the person you are speaking to knows exactly about a lifetime of suffering due to medical events.  

And, gently, many have suffered here on this board but not all talk about it. I honestly don’t think this should have been brought into it this way because we don’t all walk away from those things thinking the same as each other. Sorry, this just feels wrong to me. 
 

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244514157.html?__twitter_impression=true

[ktgrok]

When people say, "life goes on" and "we just have to live with it" it sounds like they are being dismissive of the pain and suffering and backbreaking work going on in regards to this virus. 

When I hear people say " Prolonging the disruption and difficulty for fear of a virus that kills, rarely, and maims, still somewhat rarely, is just not worth it to me or my family" I think of my neighbor's daughter worn to the bone under the influx of Covid patients. She sure wishes people continue to prolong the disruption, because if they don't, she's going to be overrun. We have hospitals in this state that are at capacity, a lot of them. So yeah, we need people to continue to have disruption. 

And if all the at risk teachers and administrators quit to find other jobs, who then teaches at the schools everyone says are so important?

[Happy2BaMom]

7 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

We should always work to control our controlables.  In doing so we have to recognize the limits of our control and also recognize how such control ripples through the rest of our lives.  At some level.....we don't have control.  And at that level, our attempt to control can become harmful to other aspects of our lives.  

I can control *every aspect* of my kids lives.  In the end though, they will suffer under such control as they grow.  Our society can attempt to control as much as possible about this virus, but we will fail.  And we have to examine how much failure is acceptable, give that there will much suffering as a result of the attempt at control as well.  

And yet MANY other countries *have* largely been successful in controlling this virus (esp in comparison to the US) and are *not* suffering (economically, socially, institutionally) nearly as much. They will recover much faster as well.
 

It’s a false dichotomy to frame the pandemic issue as failure vs. complete control. There were/are many other choices (& outcomes) on the continuum.   

The situation in which we find ourselves in this country is a direct result of piss-poor management and rampant piss-poor individual choice(s). 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Happy2BaMom

[J-rap]

10 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

And sometimes when I see people discuss the suffering and breakbacking work going on in regards to this virus, it feels like they are being dismissive of so many other things that kill people and cause endless suffering for them.  On average, 7k people die in the US every day.  Which means that around a million people in the US have died of things not Corona in 2020.  (which is obviously a rough number because that's how averages work) Few people in the US actually mourn those deaths each day.  It's not physically possible for individual people to mourn each of those thousands of deaths.  And that's only deaths.  That's not counting all the people maimed by car accidents.  Or birth injuries.  Or having a stroke on the table when they go in for a routine surgery.  Or any of the other million things that..........once they are typed out.............bring tears to the eye.  It's physically impossible to comprehend and empathize with the level of suffering and death that is happening across the world right now.  Right now there are babies suffering XYZ.  There are women suffering ABC.  And more.

The life of the baby suffering XYZ isn't diminished because the woman is suffering ABC trauma.  Acknowledging that XYZ and ABC are both awful isn't a completion between the awfulness of either.  But.......recognizing that both XYZ and ABC are part of life and we can work towards ending both, while also acknowledging that such an ending is close to impossible.....neither diminishes ABC or XYZ.  

 

Temporarily focusing on one type of tragedy certainly doesn't mean we're dismissing others.  In fact, many people are required to focus on several on-going personal tragedies all at once, but even then, they can't focus on every single type of tragedy in the world.  The thing with Covid is that it has come on so quickly and currently feels quite overwhelming and unknown to the medical field.  AND, of course, it's contagious.  Personally, I'm much, much more worried about cancer in the long-term, and I'd guess that most people are.  I pray a cure is found.  But, I honestly don't know what else to do about it at a personal level besides live a healthy lifestyle, have yearly screenings, be involved in related research studies, and donate money to finding cures.  I'm absolutely certain plenty of people mourn deaths from cancer, heart-disease, car accidents, strokes, murder, starvation, etc. etc. etc. every second of every day.  

But Covid is something that hit the world fast, has fast consequences, is still so unknown, and again -- is contagious.  It's on its way to becoming the third leading cause of death in the US.   

One positive is that it seems to be something that can be slowed from spreading by wearing masks.  That feels so, so simple compared to what we and so many others have been through with other tragedies!  In the end, the social distancing part will be impossible to maintain, but wearing a mask feels like an incredibly easy thing to do to potentially save many lives.

I'm very curious to know if mask-wearing actually helps prevent a lot of other deaths as well -- from flu, pneumonia, etc.  

I do think we're a long way from knowing how this will play out.   I'm sure we'll discover we made plenty of mistakes, or could have done things differently.  We'll learn there were times we under-reacted and times we over-reacted.  The best we can do is what seems like the right and helpful thing to do for right now, based on what we know right now.

Edited July 28, 2020 by J-rap

2 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And yet MANY other countries *have* largely been successful in controlling this virus (esp in comparison to the US) and are *not* suffering (economically, socially, institutionally) nearly as much. They will recover much faster as well.
 

It’s a false dichotomy to frame the pandemic issue as failure vs. complete control. There were/are many other choices (& outcomes) on the continuum.   

The situation in which we find ourselves in this country is a direct result of piss-poor management and rampant piss-poor individual choice(s). 

 

Yet we also need to remember that those countries who supposedly have it under control probably really don’t unless they want to stay in isolation for a long time.  Also, most European countries as I assume you are referring to are about the size of a state in the US with the ability to control their borders.

[Jaybee]

20 hours ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

I think the best option are districts allowing for full virtual without requiring it. Let each family choose what they want to live with as their tradeoffs.

Our school district is giving options for high school: (1) in-person, but required masks of teachers, staff, and students (and they will provide each one with one school logo gaiter), (2) blended with some masked on-campus, some virtual, and (3) all virtual. They have asked that parents contact them (by yesterday) to notify if they want options 2 or 3 for their students; otherwise, they will be registered for option 1. I imagine it is a logistical nightmare right now, but they are being transparent, working hard to make this work, and I have been impressed with their handling of all of this. My student has decided for option 2; doesn't want to wear a mask all day, but needs to be on-campus for afternoon classes.

I can't remember what they are doing for the younger grades. I think middle school is about the same as high school, but I'm not sure. I haven't paid attention since I don't have younger kids. They sent out surveys and also held a couple of parent meetings (socially distanced outdoors), in order to listen to parental input. There are all kinds of protocols in place for "what we will do if..." Like I said, I've been impressed and pleased--it's not an easy road to walk, having to make these kinds of decisions, with some parents yelling at why are you making my kid wear a mask, and others yelling at why aren't you.

ETA: By option 2, I mean that when you are on campus, you are masked; however, you will split the day between virtual and on-campus, in case that wasn't clear.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Jaybee

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

You’re right. We’ll have to see what happens in the longer term. However, my bet is that places that are managing to suppress their outbreaks will wind up doing better economically.

In some sense, NY is in better shape for reopening than other states, given how many people we’ve infected. On the other hand, we’ve also traumatized the population, which makes it less likely that they quickly return to normal patterns of consumption. I’d guess that in the long run, that’s going to have pretty serious consequences.

Or not...