wuhan - coronavirus

[bookbard]

Interesting article about the current outbreak of Covid in Sydney, with 38 cases now; seems to be genomically similar to a returned traveller from the USA, who is ill and in a quarantine hotel. 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/18/coronavirus-nsw-what-we-know-about-the-source-of-sydney-northern-beaches-covid-cluster

Edited December 19, 2020 by bookbard
got quarantine bit wrong

[Ausmumof3]

US had another record case day with 250,000 cases.  I’m sorry I feel like it’s so depressing reporting these stats 😞 

Ive been flat out so I’m assuming most people have already seen that Macron currently has COVID. 
 

I posted in the vaccine thread but EUA came through for Moderna so that’s good news, especially with the recent news that it may prevent infection as well as disease.

 

NSW is having some areas locked down.  Other States are seeming reluctant to close borders again instead doing things like requiring permits/applications or excluding people from specific areas.

[popmom]

14 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

For one thing apparently the flu tends to migrate back and forward between hemispheres means that the covid restrictions that almost wiped out flu in the Southern Hemisphere will reduce then number of “seedings” if you like of flu on the northern hemisphere so it will take off slower.  Also that enough social distancing etc is happening to reduce flu transmission.  Which makes me assume that if social distancing is enough to almost knock down flu but not COVID then covid is probably more transmissible and durable than flu.  I have heard that said where they said flu is a kind of wimpy virus and only lasts a short time on surfaces etc.  This also makes me think that if the social distancing is doing something the COVID epidemic would be absolutely horrendous without it. 
 

I do agree that shifting the messaging from judging shaming and blaming regarding mask wearing and social distancing to one of encouragement and helping people to figure out how to make it work would be better.  I don’t know how you fight the conspiracies though.

to the bolded--I totally agree! I agree w/ all of this actually.

I do think the "conspiracists" are an easy group to hate, and I don't think we have much to fear from the fringes. They are just such an easy target for haters--you would think they hold sway over the entire country for as much attention as they get. 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by popmom

[popmom]

42 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I had to shop in store today.  The shops were crazily busy and there were maybe two people masked.  Our of four conversations I overheard/participated in two were all about how COVID is a conspiracy.  Specifically that coronavirus has been around since world war 2 and this is the 3rd wave and that hopefully we get rid of it next time.  Also that the person can’t mask because of asthma.  Secondly that the vaccine is suspicious and they are microchipping people and using cameras to track them and it’s all just a distraction from whatever else they’re doing.  Comments etc on the news sites are becoming ridiculously conspiracy theory driven.

All that to say if covid comes over the border or out or quarantine again we are likely in trouble.

I would have to turn around and leave if I went to the store and no one was masked. Thank God we have a mandate. I am surprised at the conversations. That is sad and disturbing. I still think that is an extreme minority--at least where I live.

Edited December 19, 2020 by popmom

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, popmom said:

I would have to turn around and leave if I went to the store and no one was masked. Thank God we have a mandate. I am surprised at the conversations. That is sad and disturbing. I still think that is an extreme minority--at least where I live.

Yeah I know.  We have escaped by mostly luck and good work by the health department. I wish it was an extreme minority here.  People were very on board at first but more and more falling for disinformation.

[popmom]

11 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yeah I know.  We have escaped by mostly luck and good work by the health department. I wish it was an extreme minority here.  People were very on board at first but more and more falling for disinformation.

I think there is a continuum. A spectrum of sorts. I know plenty of people that are leery of the vaccine but not exactly buying into conspiracy theories either. I do know personally a couple of people who are on that fringe extreme end of the spectrum. It's pretty clear they don't have any influence on anyone else. Their views/beliefs are their own.

Edited December 19, 2020 by popmom

[Shoeless]

50 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I had to shop in store today.  The shops were crazily busy and there were maybe two people masked.  Our of four conversations I overheard/participated in two were all about how COVID is a conspiracy.  Specifically that coronavirus has been around since world war 2 and this is the 3rd wave and that hopefully we get rid of it next time.  Also that the person can’t mask because of asthma.  Secondly that the vaccine is suspicious and they are microchipping people and using cameras to track them and it’s all just a distraction from whatever else they’re doing.  Comments etc on the news sites are becoming ridiculously conspiracy theory driven.

All that to say if covid comes over the border or out or quarantine again we are likely in trouble.

Sounds like a typical shopping trip to the grocery store in my town. 😕 

The person in charge of the Covid response for my county recently went on a fishing trip out of the country, and posted some un-masked selfies from the plane.  😒  When asked about it, their response was basically "meh".  

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, popmom said:

I think there is a continuum. A spectrum of sorts. I know plenty of people that are leery of the vaccine but not exactly buying into conspiracy theories either. I do know personally a couple of people who are on that fringe extreme end of the spectrum. It's pretty clear they don't have any influence on anyone else. Their views/beliefs are their own.

I am kind of on that boat.  We only have super short term data on a new kind of vaccine.  But then I think it depends on the risk of getting COVID where you live.  I’d take the chance with the vaccine over covid any day.

[Laura Corin]

Damn. New lockdowns in the UK. My brother and his girls have self isolated for fourteen days but they now can't meet at Christmas. We can't get our daughter from England. It's necessary but it's really crap.

[lewelma]

Oh Lauren, that is horrible!

Press conference from NZ government has stated that if there is an outbreak during the the Christmas travelling time, we will be required to stay put at our holiday location, including camp grounds. So you need to bring enough supplies and be prepared to camp out where ever you are and not return home for 3+ weeks. Sounds like they will close the roads. It is summer here and currently no Covid, so there are a LOT of people travelling.

Edited December 19, 2020 by lewelma

[Terabith]

I'm reading that the outbreak in London is caused by a new strain of covid that is 70% more infectious?  

[popmom]

14 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm reading that the outbreak in London is caused by a new strain of covid that is 70% more infectious?  

Oh please no!

[popmom]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

Damn. New lockdowns in the UK. My brother and his girls have self isolated for fourteen days but they now can't meet at Christmas. We can't get our daughter from England. It's necessary but it's really crap.

I'm sorry to hear this. It is worrisome to think about how many will be spending the holiday alone because of the latest lockdowns. One of my dds was supposed to fly to Canada to visit her SO--had to jump through a lot of hoops to get approval only to find out a couple of weeks ago, they had tightened restrictions even more. She had to cancel her trip. Her SO lives alone--no family nearby. It makes me sad.

Edited December 19, 2020 by popmom

[Terabith]

https://www.dw.com/en/uk-faces-new-more-infectious-covid-strain-with-stricter-measures/a-55998567

[KungFuPanda]

On 12/17/2020 at 7:33 PM, ktgrok said:

And...Florida's governor, who I can't describe how much I dislike, is now publicly suggesting people get just one dose of vaccine, not the two required. Even though that's only about 50 something percent effective. He basically implied Phizer is saying two doses to make more money or something. ARGH!!!!!

Also, our rates have not budged really, which I don't believe. I don't trust anything he's in charge of. 

OMG, my SISTER lives in Florida.  She's going to the mall and not "living in fear."  She's a friggin NURSE! She's not even a dummy.  I do not understand at all.

[Ausmumof3]

37 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm reading that the outbreak in London is caused by a new strain of covid that is 70% more infectious?  

There is a thread here that I think relates,

 disclaimer being I don’t know anything about the author though what he says seems to make sense.

 

The hard bit is figuring out whether it’s spreading faster because of the change in the virus or whether the strain just hit the right place right time to cause a superspread event that makes it look that way.

[Ausmumof3]

Interesting thread on mutations etc and what it means for vaccines 

[melmichigan]

On 12/18/2020 at 3:30 PM, TCB said:

This may not be the right thread for this but for the first time in 30+ years as a nurse, I feel almost undone by this disease and our response. I find myself close to tears, and in tears, almost every day. I can hardly bear to go out to the store because I see older, heavier people there, and I feel fearful for them, and can hardly stop imagining them on a vent in our unit. I can also hardly bear to go to the store and see the unmasked people there. I saw a woman there today with a sweatshirt with Jesus on it, no mask on, and I had to walk away to stop myself from saying how interesting it was to see her wear a shirt with Jesus on it, but be so unmoved by her fellow human beings plight that she can’t even wear a mask. I’m a Christian. So many Christians in this country have been such a disappointment.

Sorry to vent here. So few places in real life to do so. I hope it ends soon!

My DH and I were just talking about this because I'm struggling with similar feelings and talking it out with him helps me vent and work through my thoughts. <<<hugs>>>

[BeachGal]

The new strain found in the UK is more infectious but there is no evidence it is more deadly according to Chris Whitty, Chief Medical Officer for England.

Most likely, it will be less deadly. Experts will be trying to figure this out but that is typically how new viruses behave.

*********

New strain of Covid-19 reported to World Health Organisation

Chief Medical Officer for England, Professor Chris Whitty said:

As announced on Monday, the UK has identified a new variant of Covid-19 through Public Health England’s genomic surveillance.

As a result of the rapid spread of the new variant, preliminary modelling data and rapidly rising incidence rates in the South East, the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (NERVTAG) now consider that the new strain can spread more quickly.

We have alerted the World Health Organisation and are continuing to analyse the available data to improve our understanding.

There is no current evidence to suggest the new strain causes a higher mortality rate or that it affects vaccines and treatments although urgent work is underway to confirm this.

Given this latest development it is now more vital than ever that the public continue to take action in their area to reduce transmission.

Edited December 20, 2020 by BeachGal

[Starr]

40 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

My DH and I were just talking about this because I'm struggling with similar feelings and talking it out with him helps me vent and work through my thoughts. <<<hugs>>>

I never know how to respond. I'm so sorry it's so awful and I'm thankful it helps to talk it out with your husband. 

[kbutton]

21 hours ago, popmom said:

I would have to turn around and leave if I went to the store and no one was masked. Thank God we have a mandate. I am surprised at the conversations. That is sad and disturbing. I still think that is an extreme minority--at least where I live.

 

20 hours ago, popmom said:

I think there is a continuum. A spectrum of sorts. I know plenty of people that are leery of the vaccine but not exactly buying into conspiracy theories either. I do know personally a couple of people who are on that fringe extreme end of the spectrum. It's pretty clear they don't have any influence on anyone else. Their views/beliefs are their own.

It is not a minority fringe where I am, and conspiracy theories absolutely have a big hold here—over a huge swath of the state legislature to be precise. They are absolutely doing serious harm. 

[JennyD]

On 12/18/2020 at 2:30 PM, TCB said:

This may not be the right thread for this but for the first time in 30+ years as a nurse, I feel almost undone by this disease and our response. I find myself close to tears, and in tears, almost every day. I can hardly bear to go out to the store because I see older, heavier people there, and I feel fearful for them, and can hardly stop imagining them on a vent in our unit. I can also hardly bear to go to the store and see the unmasked people there. I saw a woman there today with a sweatshirt with Jesus on it, no mask on, and I had to walk away to stop myself from saying how interesting it was to see her wear a shirt with Jesus on it, but be so unmoved by her fellow human beings plight that she can’t even wear a mask. I’m a Christian. So many Christians in this country have been such a disappointment.

Sorry to vent here. So few places in real life to do so. I hope it ends soon!

Oh TCB, my heart goes out to you.  Please know that there are people out there who *do* understand what is going on, and we are profoundly grateful for your and your colleagues' enormous bravery and dedication.  I think -- and worry -- all the time about you and all of the other health care workers on the front lines of this nightmare.  

Take care of yourself, dear.  Virtual hugs seem horrendously inadequate, but they're all I have to offer.  ((())))

 

 

[bookbard]

Last minute changes here in Sydney, due to 30 more people diagnosed with Covid. This time last week there was no one at all, and Christmas could be as large as you liked. Now it's 72 people diagnosed, and you can have only 10 people in your home. 

Let's hope it gets resolved quickly with people staying at home. 

 

 

[JennyD]

The Tennessee governor's wife has been diagnosed with covid.  

I don't quite understand why Gov. Lee describes his own quarantining as being "out of an abundance of caution." I would say that if your spouse actually has covid, staying away from other people for a while qualifies as 'the bare minimum of responsible behavior,' even with a negative test.

 

[Terabith]

8 minutes ago, JennyD said:

The Tennessee governor's wife has been diagnosed with covid.  

I don't quite understand why Gov. Lee describes his own quarantining as being "out of an abundance of caution." I would say that if your spouse actually has covid, staying away from other people for a while qualifies as 'the bare minimum of responsible behavior,' even with a negative test.

 

Yeah, well, the Tennessee governor is also the one who has said things like, "There's no way we could have predicted the post-Thanksgiving spike!"  

Uh, yeah.  Yeah, there was.  They've been talking about it SINCE APRIL, you idiotic doofus who won't do anything about the pandemic!

[JennyD]

11 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, well, the Tennessee governor is also the one who has said things like, "There's no way we could have predicted the post-Thanksgiving spike!"  

Uh, yeah.  Yeah, there was.  They've been talking about it SINCE APRIL, you idiotic doofus who won't do anything about the pandemic!

Yes, unsurprisingly things are not exactly going so well for us here in TN.  1 out of 100 residents diagnosed with covid in the last WEEK. 

[Frances]

On 12/18/2020 at 9:00 PM, popmom said:

to the bolded--I totally agree! I agree w/ all of this actually.

I do think the "conspiracists" are an easy group to hate, and I don't think we have much to fear from the fringes. They are just such an easy target for haters--you would think they hold sway over the entire country for as much attention as they get. 

 

I think if 2020 has taught us anything, it’s that conspiracy theorists and spreaders of disinformation and propaganda can do profound harm, regardless of the subject matter. Personally, I strongly disagree that we have little to fear or that they are only the fringes. They are far more than only the fringes and have already done incalculable damage.

Edited to add that I don’t hate anyone. I may hate the actions of some people, but it doesn’t mean I hate them.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Frances

[Laura Corin]

Statement from Scotland's First Minister:

Sturgeon said: “Standing here saying this makes me want to cry because I know how harsh it sounds … but this virus is unfair.”

She said that she understood that people would look at Scotland’s case numbers and query whether these immediate tightening of restrictions was necessary. “This new strain is transmitting so quickly that it will very soon overwhelm us,” she said.

[popmom]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

I think if 2020 has taught us anything, it’s that conspiracy theorists and spreaders of disinformation and propaganda can do profound harm, regardless of the subject matter. Personally, I strongly disagree that we have little to fear or that they are only the fringes. They are far more than only the fringes and have already done incalculable damage.

Edited to add that I don’t hate anyone. I may hate the actions of some people, but it doesn’t mean I hate them.

Can you quantify the "incalculable damage'? I'm not being snarky. I'm just not seeing it at all where I live. Most folks are doing the best they can to live their lives and mitigate the risk to themselves and others. I have friends who are small business owners--still doing business. I have even more friends in ministry who are among those "not living in fear" because they are serving in their ministry roles. And these are not conspiracists. They aren't even conservatives. So the "conspiracists" that I know are truly in such a minority. It's really the regular people that I feel like you are against. I realize "against" is a strong term. For lack of a better word.

Edited December 20, 2020 by popmom

[Frances]

4 minutes ago, popmom said:

Can you quantify the "incalculable damage'? I'm not being snarky. I'm just not seeing it at all where I live. Most folks are doing the best they can to live their lives and mitigate the risk to themselves and others. I have friends who are small business owners--still doing business. I have even more friends in ministry who are among those "not living in fear". And these are not conspiracists. They aren't even conservatives. 

The many elected leaders, including our president, who spread propaganda, disinformation, and conspiracy theories concerning the virus. I would not consider elected leaders to be on the fringe. Otherwise, it would seem to imply that everyone who voted for them is on the fringe. As for quantifying the damage, look at the deaths and disabilities plus economic damage and other fallout from the pandemic, not to mention the increased polarization and even less trust than ever in government and science.

[popmom]

6 minutes ago, Frances said:

The many elected leaders, including our president, who spread propaganda, disinformation, and conspiracy theories concerning the virus. I would not consider elected leaders to be on the fringe. Otherwise, it would seem to imply that everyone who voted for them is on the fringe. As for quantifying the damage, look at the deaths and disabilities plus economic damage and other fallout from the pandemic, not to mention the increased polarization and even less trust than ever in government and science.

oh, okay. lol Of course no Trump supporter could possibly have a single working brain cell. It's all Trump's fault, right? Nothing to do with the novelty or virulence of the virus. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by popmom

[Frances]

14 minutes ago, popmom said:

Can you quantify the "incalculable damage'? I'm not being snarky. I'm just not seeing it at all where I live. Most folks are doing the best they can to live their lives and mitigate the risk to themselves and others. I have friends who are small business owners--still doing business. I have even more friends in ministry who are among those "not living in fear" because they are serving in their ministry roles. And these are not conspiracists. They aren't even conservatives. So the "conspiracists" that I know are truly in such a minority. It's really the regular people that I feel like you are against. I realize "against" is a strong term. For lack of a better word.

I’m against regular people? What does that even mean? I’m against people, especially elected leaders, spreading disinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theories about the virus or anything else. Especially those knowingly doing it for their own gain.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Frances

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, Frances said:

I’m against regular people? What does that even mean? I’m against people, especially elected leaders, spreading disinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theories about the virus or anything else.

You didn't quantify the "incalculable damage".

[Frances]

5 minutes ago, popmom said:

oh, okay. lol Of course no Trump supporter could possibly have a single working brain cell. It's all Trump's fault, right? Nothing to do with the novelty or virulence of the virus. 

I think you are trying to put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head. Of course no one person is to blame. But competent and honest leadership at all levels would have made a world of difference in many ways. Do you think the spreading of disinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theories concerning the virus by some of our elected officials, including the president, has been helpful during the pandemic? 

[Frances]

6 minutes ago, popmom said:

You didn't quantify the "incalculable damage".

I directed you to statistics on deaths, cases, economic damage, polarization, trust in government, etc. I’m not going to bother to posts lots of links. Plus, I think there has been damage done to our democratic norms and institutions that is hard to quantify and that we will not fully understand for quite awhile.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Frances

[popmom]

12 minutes ago, Frances said:

I think you are trying to put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head. Of course no one person is to blame. But competent and honest leadership at all levels would have made a world of difference in many ways. Do you think the spreading of disinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theories concerning the virus by some of our elected officials, including the president, has been helpful during the pandemic? 

no spin. Quantify the incalculable damage. Of course I'm against disinformation. I think most of the citizens of our country are able to distinguish fact from fiction--no matter what side of the aisle they are on. Americans aren't SHEEP. We can actually think for ourselves. And we sometimes disagree with even the candidate we support. So you can stop blaming politicians for this nightmare. Each individual citizen is responsible for their choices.

I appreciate the honest discussion. Thank you for that.

Edited December 20, 2020 by popmom

[Frances]

1 hour ago, popmom said:

no spin. Quantify the incalculable damage. Of course I'm against disinformation. I think most of the citizens of our country are able to distinguish fact from fiction--no matter what side of the aisle they are on. Americans aren't SHEEP. We can actually think for ourselves. And we sometimes disagree with even the candidate we support. So you can stop blaming politicians for this nightmare. Each individual citizen is responsible for their choices.

I’m glad to hear you are against disinformation. I wish more people in this country were and acted on that dislike. Just in case you haven’t seen it, here’s a study that was done awhile back on covid misinformation.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/evanega-et-al-coronavirus-misinformation-submitted-07-23-20-1/080839ac0c22bca8/full.pdf

If you don’t want to criticize any politicians for their handling of the pandemic, feel free. And I’ll feel free to do the opposite and vote accordingly.

And while everyone is responsible for their own choices, unfortunately especially during a pandemic, bad choices and bad leadership can have a profound effect on others.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Frances

[popmom]

15 minutes ago, Frances said:

I’m glad to hear you are against disinformation. I wish more people in this country were and acted on that dislike. Just in case you haven’t seen it, here’s a study that was done awhile back on covid misinformation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-misinformation.html

If you don’t want to criticize any politicians for their handling of the pandemic, feel free. And I’ll feel free to do the opposite and vote accordingly.

And while everyone is responsible for their own choices, unfortunately especially during a pandemic, bad choices can have a profound effect on others.

Sure. As long as you recognize that bad choices come from all stripes, all sides of politics, all socioeconomic levels. There is not ONE villain--except the virus. #letthemeatcake

Edited December 20, 2020 by popmom

[Frances]

Just now, popmom said:

Sure. As long as you recognize that bad choices come from all stripes, all sides of politics, all levels of socioeconomic levels. There is not ONE villain--except the virus.

I never said anyone was perfect, but that doesn’t mean everyone is equally imperfect either. Personally, I do generally expect good character, maturity, honesty, and competency from my elected officials and vote accordingly. If leaders don’t matter, why have any? Hopefully there will be many lessons learned from all of this pain. 

[popmom]

12 minutes ago, Frances said:

I never said anyone was perfect, but that doesn’t mean everyone is equally imperfect either. Personally, I do generally expect good character, maturity, honesty, and competency from my elected officials and vote accordingly. If leaders don’t matter, why have any? Hopefully there will be many lessons learned from all of this pain. 

I agree. I hope you apply these standards to our newly president elect. ETA: I'm not a fan of the NYTs. I subscribed for a long while and gave up. Their bias is beyond obvious which makes them less than credible to me.

Edited December 20, 2020 by popmom

[Frances]

3 minutes ago, popmom said:

I agree. I hope you apply these standards to our newly president elect.

I already have and voted accordingly.

[popmom]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

I already have and voted accordingly.

As I have passed my 2 glasses of wine limit, I will refrain from commenting further. 😂

[popmom]

@FrancesYou couldn't even give me a laughing emoji??? Come on...lol

I know "the community" would like for me to just go away--and I probably will for awhile, but I do appreciate those who are intellectually honest enough to not totally shun me. 🙂 #nevergonnabeneurotypical #whereisyourtolerance 

Edited December 20, 2020 by popmom

[popmom]

8 minutes ago, kand said:

I keep getting pretty darn depressed reading the comments under posts from virus scientists  on Twitter. From reading those, it appears we have a rather large number of people in this country who can’t (or won’t?) distinguish fact from fiction. It’s downright nutty a lot of the stuff I’m seeing. I like to try to console myself that it’s just random fringe people on social media, but unfortunately I also hear these people on the news and even hear some elected officials parroting some of the nonsense. I know it’s getting through to a large number of people because it’s all over my local Nextdoor neighborhood site. That is doing very real damage, because what I’m seeing are people who are still insisting that this virus is a left wing conspiracy and is no more dangerous than the flu and that people should take off their masks and live their lives like usual rather than being “terrified in their basements”. The result of people behaving like this doesn’t exist is over 300,000 dead Americans and rapidly rising. Certainly we would’ve had Covid deaths regardless, but they never had to get this high. This is really not excusable.

That's awful. But also can't be pinned on one side of the political aisle. I guess I live in a bubble. I have given up on all social media. I highly recommend not reading the comments on news articles especially because it misrepresents reality IMO. Maybe I should get back on FB to combat the misinformation. It just sucks the life out of me. I don't think I could change anyone's mind. I think we need to build bridges with these people instead of denigrating them. just my humble opinion. Except I feel way less humble after a couple glasses of wine. 😉

Edited December 20, 2020 by popmom

[Frances]

37 minutes ago, popmom said:

@FrancesYou couldn't even give me a laughing emoji??? Come on...lol

I know "the community" would like for me to just go away--and I probably will for awhile, but I do appreciate those who are intellectually honest enough to not totally shun me. 🙂 #nevergonnabeneurotypical #whereisyourtolerance 

I actually vacillated between the heart and laughing emoji, but was afraid the laughing one might be taken wrong. I guess the heart one was, sorry.

I certainly don’t want you to go away and hope that nothing I wrote made you think I did. Personally, I think disagreement is healthy.

And I apologize if I somehow offended you, but I don’t know what the hashtags mean or are in reference to.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Frances

[Frances]

55 minutes ago, popmom said:

I agree. I hope you apply these standards to our newly president elect. ETA: I'm not a fan of the NYTs. I subscribed for a long while and gave up. Their bias is beyond obvious which makes them less than credible to me.

The actual study is an embedded link in the article, so you don’t have to actually read the article in order to read the study. I remembered reading the study when it was released and the NY Times article was the first one that appeared when I searched for it tonight. I included an article with a link because I thought some might prefer one over the other. But I’ll go back and just link the study instead in case others are put off by a NY Times article.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Frances

[Melissa in Australia]

please don't get the thread closed with political squabbling. This thread is important

[Pen]

BBC on UK: https://youtu.be/cOuKtj3p7GQ

 

[Rosie_0801]

Keep a lid on the politics, please. I'm too busy to moderate tactfully over the next few days, so if we get any more reports, I'll lock the thread until I'm back again, then probably forget to open it back up.

[kbutton]

 

11 hours ago, popmom said:

That's awful. But also can't be pinned on one side of the political aisle. I guess I live in a bubble. I have given up on all social media. I highly recommend not reading the comments on news articles especially because it misrepresents reality IMO. Maybe I should get back on FB to combat the misinformation. It just sucks the life out of me. I don't think I could change anyone's mind. I think we need to build bridges with these people instead of denigrating them. just my humble opinion. Except I feel way less humble after a couple glasses of wine. 😉

I agree about the bridge building, but locally to me, the folks who are all for herd immunity and conspiracy theories don’t acknowledge that we haven’t ever had herd immunity to anything without a vaccine. Most are also against this vaccine or don’t understand that even with a vaccine, we won’t be able to roll back pandemic guidelines instantaneously. 

I am not sure how to build a bridge to that.