Unarmed security guard jobs for ds

[unsinkable]

This is the "listing" for autism, from the SSA "blue book." A and B both have to be met. (A is the first part, starting with "medical" and B is second, starting with "extreme." 

it does sound like he needs an updated evaluation and possibly a medical checkup, whether you think he meets the disability requirements or not.

 

12.10 Autism spectrum disorder (see 12.00B8), satisfied by A and B:

1. Medical documentation of both of the following:
   1. Qualitative deficits in verbal communication, nonverbal communication, and social interaction; and
   2. Significantly restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities.

AND

2. Extreme limitation of one, or marked limitation of two, of the following areas of mental functioning (see 12.00F):
   1. Understand, remember, or apply information (see 12.00E1).
   2. Interact with others (see 12.00E2).
   3. Concentrate, persist, or maintain pace (see 12.00E3).
   4. Adapt or manage oneself (see 12.00E4).

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Night Elf said:

Yeah he was a 4.0 student in both high school and in the 4 college classes he took. He just doesn't like doing the work. He says it's boring.

When he was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 9, it was a simple questionnaire, front and back of one piece of  paper that I filled out. Then when he was about 12, I took him to a private psychologist for proper testing. The report I got back had his name throughout half the report and someone else's name in the other half. So I couldn't trust that report because I believed it to be a standard form they were filling out and not really personalizing it for him. He hasn't had any other testing. 

 

My kids has had 2 full neuropsychological evaulations. This came up in both of the "draft" reports we were sent; there were a coupe of instances of "she" instead of "he" and a name (first only) that was not my child's.  I called it to the attention of the testers. They apologized and said that, yes, they do sometimes copy/paste from standard documents when writing these reports.  If they test dozens of people, there is going to be some overlap and it would make sense that they would not type everything over and over.  They verified that what the report contained was true for my child, spent time going over it with me again, and corrected the errors. 

Both tests were done by doctors with very good reputations so I wasn't really worried that they had made substantive errors. 

Regarding school... I didn't quote this part but yeah, much of school can be boring. My kid is not on the spectrum (at least not dx'd as such though he clearly has some characteristics) but has some LDs that make some bits harder for him.  But still, some parts that are not hard are still dull.  Even some of the classes in his major are not to his liking.

Maybe your son was in the wrong major. Or maybe the classes that were boring were GE classes that everyone has to take. When my kid complained, we reminded him that these boring classes are required and steps on the path to his goal.  "Are you still interested in this goal?" "Yes." "Then these are required steps to achieve it. Get on with it." 

Maybe your son needs to look into different programs of study that will be more interesting to him.  It is hard to see that a person who is achieving good grades in college and has no physical issues that prevent working is going to qualify for disability. Obviously I'm not seeing the whole picture and I don't mean to sound critical of your efforts to help him.  

ETA: My kids both had to clean restrooms as part of their first jobs. My husband and I both had to clean restrooms in our early working years in retail. There is nothing horrible about cleaning restrooms most of the time if the employer has the right tools. And gloves. :-)  I am still cleaning restrooms for a very-part-time gig I have doing the cleaning at my church. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by marbel

[City Mouse]

6 hours ago, Annie G said:

In our town there is a temp agency that handles most of the security guard type of jobs, and they don’t expect people to have experience. Some of the jobs are pretty boring- checking for ID at a local manufacturing plant, for instance. The security guys where dh works have a much different job than a security guy at a school or store has. An aspie would be great where dh works- don’t let anyone in without an ID badge and watch the security camera footage to be sure nothing fishy is going on. Dh runs the test lab and it has to be secure because they do a lot of military work.  Security is taken seriously but rarely has there been an issue. But at our local hospital the job requires a lot more thinking on your feet and making judgement calls. Weekend nights can get crazy with domestic incidents or gang fights in the emergency room area. 

So...it might be that he needs to define what he thinks a security job means. 

‘Would he be interested in a TSA job at a regional airport nearby? Well defined rules, working in teams, and not as much pressure as a major airport TSA job.  But they do send them away to train- for a few weeks. 

 I like the idea of working through a temp agency. I think that would be good for my 23yr old Aspie who sounds a lot like your son. She was a goods student in high school (never had an IEP) and did well in any college classes that she liked. She was 1 year short of graduating from college when she decided she didn't want to go back. She has worked many different seasonal and short term jobs. The one "real" job she had (minimum wage but with benefits) ended badly after 6 months. I wish we lived someplace large enough to have a temp agency. That would give her the opportunity to try out many different jobs without having to commit long term. 

We also deal with the "don't want to" issues, but but finances seem to be much tighter for our family, and she has seen both parents have to work at jobs that they didn't  like just because we need the money. It has helped her realize that many people have to work at jobs they don't like just to meet basic needs. I think the seasonal jobs help with that too - if she knows the job ends in xx more weeks, then she can keep going until the end.

[Kim in Appalachia]

1 hour ago, Night Elf said:

Yeah he was a 4.0 student in both high school and in the 4 college classes he took. He just doesn't like doing the work. He says it's boring.

When he was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 9, it was a simple questionnaire, front and back of one piece of  paper that I filled out. Then when he was about 12, I took him to a private psychologist for proper testing. The report I got back had his name throughout half the report and someone else's name in the other half. So I couldn't trust that report because I believed it to be a standard form they were filling out and not really personalizing it for him. He hasn't had any other testing. 

 

You need the proper person for testing. You can ask your psychologist if he/she is able to do a full neurodevelopmental evaluation or if he can recommend someone. It needs to be done by someone qualified/licensed for it.  If you have disability services (for adults) in your area, they also may be able to help you connect with the right people. It does involve a questionnaire, usually a couple of them. It should also involve testing, maybe the BOT-2 or a Sensory Integration test. Different tests are age dependent, and I'm unsure which one should be done for your dc.    

And just because Asperger's is no longer on the list, it does not mean your son would not be diagnosed with ASD.  It's now all under 1 Dx, it's just a spectrum. It's not any more difficult to "fit" within the diagnosis. 

[Kim in Appalachia]

2 hours ago, Night Elf said:

Okay thank you everyone. I'm completely overwhelmed and my brain cannot process all of this. I emailed his psychiatrist about the testing needed to see what she says. I also told her I was worried he wouldn't qualify for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis under today's guidelines. That, of course, would end all of this and he'll get no assistance. It's very upsetting.

 

 

((((HUGS))))) 

I'm sure this is all overwhelming.

I've know a couple of people who have gone through this for their adult children (so over 18) and getting the official diagnosis helped.  The one family, the child is very high functioning, but still qualified.  The child is currently enrolled in college, and receives support for that, including a person that helps the student with scheduling and study skills. 

  

 

 

[Kim in Appalachia]

One more thing to add. Often places that do the testing have information about resources.  So if your current psychiatrist is clueless, find someone else.  

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, Night Elf said:

Yeah he was a 4.0 student in both high school and in the 4 college classes he took. He just doesn't like doing the work. He says it's boring.

When he was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 9, it was a simple questionnaire, front and back of one piece of  paper that I filled out. Then when he was about 12, I took him to a private psychologist for proper testing. The report I got back had his name throughout half the report and someone else's name in the other half. So I couldn't trust that report because I believed it to be a standard form they were filling out and not really personalizing it for him. He hasn't had any other testing. 

 

I am not understanding why you didn't follow up with that.  If I had paid for testing and someone else's name was on it, I would be in there complaining to the higher ups and asking why I am not getting a proper documentation for my money.

When my son was diagnosed (age 14), we did three days of 2-2.5 hour tests.  The 15 page report was very specific to HIM.  In fact, when we sent it to his college, the psychologist called and told me he had never seen such a thorough report and he was quite impressed.  

Yes, it was expensive.  The entire report was $1,600 and insurance paid about half of that.

We have only asked for 2 accommodations.  The most important for my son was a single room accommodation.  The second was an "extended time on any assignment without a week's notice" which was kind of dumb since all of the assignments are in the syllabus anyway, and more than a week's notice is given, but whatever.

[Pen]

This may be somewhere upthread or in a signature I cannot see anymore, but how old is this young man?

[katilac]

What is your ds doing for money? Is he the one who had a lot saved and was just spending from that? If he still has money, you're going to need to make life a little more uncomfortable for him. Make him buy everything for himself, make him contribute to the household (maybe the internet bill, lol). Not to be mean, just to remind him that it costs a lot to live, and to keep this from dragging on for additional months because he only cares about having enough money for fast food and video game extras. 

Being without money is going to force the issue to a certain extent. 

[Hilltopmom]

Keep in mind though some young adults with ASD can do well in college but it falls apart when it comes to getting and keeping a job- 

doing well in school is not the only consideration 

[hippiemamato3]

I'm not sure, based on all your posts, whether your DS would be eligible for disability (SSI) or not.  If he is eligible, it will not necessarily take years. My son (18) received an approval in less than 3 months. (He is not on the spectrum.)  You have to start the application online and then the social security office will contact you to come in for an appt. I will say that it was an actual full time job (for ME) for about 3 months while I tried to set up his services. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by hippiemamato3

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If Dad thinks son is lazy and could work if he were willing, why does he allow son to stay home and play video games instead of requiring him to work? 

OP, I'm not asking why you allow it. That picture is clearer. I'm wondering why Dad does, if he doesn't think there's a real reason why ds can't hold a job or spend hours volunteering or do the housework and cooking.

 

[lmrich]

If he did not like college classes, would he like trade classes? Could he train to do a skill? Job training would make a huge difference. He might need to go at a slower pace through the training process, but you are providing with a solid foundation so he can do that. He must get training for a career that interests him. What is he good at, besides video games? 

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

 

 

 

 

Beth, I’m not sure how to say this gently, but are you 100% sure your dh isn’t right about your ds?

Your posts aren’t really describing a person with a disability. Your posts describe a young man who wants everything his own way. He doesn’t like this and he doesn’t like that, and he won’t do this, and he prefers not to do that, and he can work long hours but he doesn’t want to, and he doesn’t want to drive if there’s traffic, and it seems like he dismisses everything that has even the slightest amount of discomfort or inconvenience. 

Your posts indicate that he CAN do things, but that he doesn’t do them because he DOESN’T WANT to do them, not because he is physically or mentally incapable. 

I’m not saying he has no obstacles or issues, but I can’t help but wonder if he is truly as fragile as you describe him, or if maybe your dh’s assessment that he’s lazy may have at least some basis in truth.

This is what high functioning autism can look for in some people though.  They can do all the things individually but they are much harder, require more mental effort and cause more anxiety for the average person.  Which means that all put together the stuff to manage life can be overwhelming.  

It does look like this kid might need a loving push and home a bit less comfy but alongside that seeking and accurate current diagnosis should help get the support needed as well.  Otherwise as someone else said what may end up happening is a succession of job failures because it looks like an attitude problem.

 

[Catwoman]

50 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

If Dad thinks son is lazy and could work if he were willing, why does he allow son to stay home and play video games instead of requiring him to work? 

OP, I'm not asking why you allow it. That picture is clearer. I'm wondering why Dad does, if he doesn't think there's a real reason why ds can't hold a job or spend hours volunteering or do the housework and cooking.

 

 

I may be remembering this incorrectly but I’m pretty sure Beth posted in an old thread from several months ago that her husband gave the son a six-month ultimatum, and the son was supposed to have made a decision about whether he was going to get a job or return to college by the end of that 6 month period. I can’t remember how long ago that was, though.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

This may be somewhere upthread or in a signature I cannot see anymore, but how old is this young man?

 

Beth doesn’t seem to be around to answer your question, so I’ll give it a try. ? I’m not 100% sure about this, but I believe he is 22 years old. 

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

I may be remembering this incorrectly but I’m pretty sure Beth posted in an old thread from several months ago that her husband gave the son a six-month ultimatum, and the son was supposed to have made a decision about whether he was going to get a job or return to college by the end of that 6 month period. I can’t remember how long ago that was, though.

I wasn't going to comment because I thought she had posted in the private forum, but I guess not.  Yeah, that was a while ago, and I remember saying at the time that she may need to give him more time.  Our son needed it.  And he needed a lot of counseling, trial and error community college time, etc.....

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

This is what high functioning autism can look for in some people though.  They can do all the things individually but they are much harder, require more mental effort and cause more anxiety for the average person.  Which means that all put together the stuff to manage life can be overwhelming.  

It does look like this kid might need a loving push and home a bit less comfy but alongside that seeking and accurate current diagnosis should help get the support needed as well.  Otherwise as someone else said what may end up happening is a succession of job failures because it looks like an attitude problem.

 

 

I agree that an accurate diagnosis is an excellent idea. 

Fortunately, though, Beth’s son was successful in his job at Kroger. He quit the job because he didn’t like it any more, and when he quit, the manager tried to talk him into staying on the job, so I think he must have been a good and competent worker.

[Catwoman]

13 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I wasn't going to comment because I thought she had posted in the private forum, but I guess not.  Yeah, that was a while ago, and I remember saying at the time that she may need to give him more time.  Our son needed it.  And he needed a lot of counseling, trial and error community college time, etc.....

 

I think the difference is that, if I recall correctly, your son was always moving forward, and he was getting appropriate guidance and scaffolding to help him try new things. He wasn’t just sitting on the sofa playing video games for months on end. I know Beth is trying her best to help him, but it doesn’t sound like he is cooperative.

I don't think Beth’s son should go straight into a challenging full time job or go back to college with a full courseload. I think a slow but steady, gradual approach may be much better for him, along with getting the proper diagnosis so people will be better able to assist him. But I do think he should be doing something, whether it’s part time work, part time college, or both. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Catwoman

[kiwik]

The kind of guard who sits in a booth and checks IDs might work but as a PP said getting him employed with an official disability label may give him some protection.

 

Are you sure it wasn't that college was too stressful?

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

I agree that an accurate diagnosis is an excellent idea. 

Fortunately, though, Beth’s son was successful in his job at Kroger. He quit the job because he didn’t like it any more, and when he quit, the manager tried to talk him into staying on the job, so I think he must have been a good and competent worker.

 

It may be that “I don’t like” is code for this job is making me feel so anxious I can’t handle it.  I’m not saying for sure that’s the case as I don’t know the kid in question.  I spent a lot of years saying “I don’t like driving” when what I really meant was driving is really hard for me and makes me feel completely terrified and out of control. Just for one non aspie example.  

[Innisfree]

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Beth, I’m not sure how to say this gently, but are you 100% sure your dh isn’t right about your ds?

Your posts aren’t really describing a person with a disability. Your posts describe a young man who wants everything his own way. He doesn’t like this and he doesn’t like that, and he won’t do this, and he prefers not to do that, and he can work long hours but he doesn’t want to, and he doesn’t want to drive if there’s traffic, and it seems like he dismisses everything that has even the slightest amount of discomfort or inconvenience. 

 

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

This is what high functioning autism can look for in some people though.  They can do all the things individually but they are much harder, require more mental effort and cause more anxiety for the average person.  Which means that all put together the stuff to manage life can be overwhelming.  

It does look like this kid might need a loving push and home a bit less comfy but alongside that seeking and accurate current diagnosis should help get the support needed as well.  Otherwise as someone else said what may end up happening is a succession of job failures because it looks like an attitude problem.

 

I've got to second Ausmumof3 here. This is exactly what high functioning autism can look like.

 "A young man who wants everything his own way" = rigidity and inflexibility. Not wanting to work long hours and not wanting to drive if there's traffic = not being able to cope with stress, and needing more time to recover than others need.

This is one reason kids at this end of the spectrum have trouble getting diagnosed and then getting the support they (really do) need. To observers who only see them for short periods, or don't see them reacting to overwhelming stress, they look more like they have character flaws than like they have a disability. The disability is real nonetheless.

I agree that new, thorough evaluations are in order for Night Elf's son. He needs documentation and support in finding suitable employment.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Innisfree

[fairfarmhand]

I wonder if his lack of flexible thInking skills is getting in his way of considering career paths. He’s looking for something that will fulfill all his joys and have no negatives ( the perfect career) when such a job does not exist. Every job has crummy parts. 

[Catwoman]

13 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

It may be that “I don’t like” is code for this job is making me feel so anxious I can’t handle it.  I’m not saying for sure that’s the case as I don’t know the kid in question.  I spent a lot of years saying “I don’t like driving” when what I really meant was driving is really hard for me and makes me feel completely terrified and out of control. Just for one non aspie example.  

 

11 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

 

I've got to second Ausmumof3 here. This is exactly what high functioning autism can look like.

 "A young man who wants everything his own way" = rigidity and inflexibility. Not wanting to work long hours and not wanting to drive if there's traffic = not being able to cope with stress, and needing more time to recover than others need.

This is one reason kids at this end of the spectrum have trouble getting diagnosed and then getting the support they (really do) need. To observers who only see them for short periods, or don't see them reacting to overwhelming stress, they look more like they have character flaws than like they have a disability. The disability is real nonetheless.

I agree that new, thorough evaluations are in order for Night Elf's son. He needs documentation and support in finding suitable employment.

 

I absolutely agree that Beth’s son needs a thorough evaluation to see what’s really going on.  

However, I have been following her threads about her son for a very long time, and I can no longer discount her husband’s opinions, because although this young man may end up being diagnosed with autism, the other side of the story is that there is also a possibility that he hasn’t returned to college and he hasn’t gotten a job because he prefers to sit around the house all day and play video games... and he gets away with it. No one tells him he absolutely must get a job, and no one puts any demands on him or pressures him to do anything he doesn’t absolutely, positively feel like doing. He has an excuse for everything, and Beth is so sweet that she constantly worries about his feelings to the point where she makes a lot of excuses for him, as well.  Realistically, he is a 22yo who is living the life of a carefree teenager, and why would he change that easy lifestyle if he doesn’t have to? He doesn’t have any concrete goals, so he’s coasting merrily along, playing video games and having no responsibilities. It’s not hard to imagine that he would fight to avoid losing such a relaxed lifestyle.

That said, I’m still not ready to cast any judgment on this young man. There are multiple explanations for his behavior and realistically, we have no idea whether autism is part of the equation or whether this is something entirely different, and that’s why an evaluation is so important. I do believe, though, that allowing him to continue sitting around the house all day is a bad idea. He should be required to do something, even if it’s just a simple, menial, part-time job — and his parents probably shouldn’t keep accepting all of his excuses for why every single job option is a bad fit for him. 

[Tap]

I saw someone mention pharmacy technician.  Do  not go this direction if you are thinking retail pharmacy.  I am a pharmacy tech. It requires a very high level of customer interaction in retail pharmacy. It is extremely fast pased and requires extensive multitasking. It used to be a reasonable job, but now is very unrealistic for the job we are expected to accomplish in the time we have available.  We are helping customers in person or on the phone, who are often sick and upset, several times a day. The pharmacist only take calls the tech can't manage, so the technician deals with 90% of the communication with customers.  You also need a high level of problem solving skills and thinking on your feet.   There are mail order pharmacies that require little to no customer interaction, but you will want to find out if there are any in your area before going this route.  It requires at least a state license and often national certification.  Very few companies have on the job training, so he would need to complete a trade school or college program for licensing.  In our area it costs $10-20,000 (trade school or community college) for a program to get certified. 

I have an autistic/Asperger's daughter. It is not a job I would recommend for her.  It would be too stressful. 

[Pen]

What about Americorps - the category for up to age 24 ?  

What about some type of medical technician who does not need to interact a lot with patients?

Or if he is spending a lot of time on computer games, some job related to computers? 

 

And it sounds like he needs some supervisory guidance to not quit jobs. 

Plus I agree that he needs an evaluation to see what is going on , and to get a handle on what he can do.  It sounds like there is a gap between what he wishes he could do and his actual ability to function  competently  .

 

 

 

[Pen]

9 hours ago, Catwoman said:

@Night Elf

Said:

DH thinks ds is lazy and doesn't want to work hard. I believe ds worked hard at his last job but he couldn't keep up the very fast pace they wanted their employees to do. 

 

If his disability situation were verified and disclosed, he might be allowed to work more slowly.  

I see some very slow, obviously disabled, workers at a grocery I go to. 

[Pen]

Some big cities have night doormen in apartment buildings who probably don’t get paid much, but also don’t have to do much. Some study as college students while on duty. 

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

I agree that an accurate diagnosis is an excellent idea. 

Fortunately, though, Beth’s son was successful in his job at Kroger. He quit the job because he didn’t like it any more, and when he quit, the manager tried to talk him into staying on the job, so I think he must have been a good and competent worker.

 

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

It may be that “I don’t like” is code for this job is making me feel so anxious I can’t handle it.  I’m not saying for sure that’s the case as I don’t know the kid in question.  I spent a lot of years saying “I don’t like driving” when what I really meant was driving is really hard for me and makes me feel completely terrified and out of control. Just for one non aspie example.  

 

2 hours ago, Innisfree said:

 

I've got to second Ausmumof3 here. This is exactly what high functioning autism can look like.

 "A young man who wants everything his own way" = rigidity and inflexibility. Not wanting to work long hours and not wanting to drive if there's traffic = not being able to cope with stress, and needing more time to recover than others need.

This is one reason kids at this end of the spectrum have trouble getting diagnosed and then getting the support they (really do) need. To observers who only see them for short periods, or don't see them reacting to overwhelming stress, they look more like they have character flaws than like they have a disability. The disability is real nonetheless.

I agree that new, thorough evaluations are in order for Night Elf's son. He needs documentation and support in finding suitable employment.

All of this. 

"I don't want to " is how they say it, because one of the issues with ASD is a theory of mind deficit, and an inability to put into words what they are feeling. 

[Catwoman]

58 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

 

All of this. 

"I don't want to " is how they say it, because one of the issues with ASD is a theory of mind deficit, and an inability to put into words what they are feeling. 

 

But why do you think that is the case with Beth’s son? He seems to have no problem expressing a multitude of specific reasons why each job is wrong for him. 

[Rosie_0801]

19 hours ago, Night Elf said:

I don't know how Target will handle it but if they don't feel he'd fit in the position, I'm hoping they'll ask him if he's interested in another position that may be open. One job was cart attendant which he thought he could do until he read the full job description and a responsibility was keeping the restrooms clean. He said he wasn't going to clean restrooms. 

 

Ha. You tell him this Aspie here was cleaning toilets in a child care centre for pocket money when she was 8.

[Carrie12345]

9 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

I think the difference is that, if I recall correctly, your son was always moving forward, and he was getting appropriate guidance and scaffolding to help him try new things. He wasn’t just sitting on the sofa playing video games for months on end. I know Beth is trying her best to help him, but it doesn’t sound like he is cooperative.

I don't think Beth’s son should go straight into a challenging full time job or go back to college with a full courseload. I think a slow but steady, gradual approach may be much better for him, along with getting the proper diagnosis so people will be better able to assist him. But I do think he should be doing something, whether it’s part time work, part time college, or both. 

This is where we're at with my 20yo.  Just throwing it out to give additional perspective - spectrum kids can have "normal" problems too, which adds a ton of excitement to the equation, lol.  Mine is going through a lot with his father's side of the family, so we've been trying a gentle approach, which we'd do with any 20yo dealing with tough times.  BUT, we're now at a point where the Aspie in him has gotten overly comfy with what would normally be a temporary period of transition.  Slow and steady, to my kid, is like how large and sudden feels to me.  It's a frustrating and awkward dance that has to be danced.  

I agree that jumping all-in is a risky proposition.  It might be the right one for some kids, but there's no way for strangers to know whether or not Beth's son is one of those.  

[Innisfree]

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I do believe, though, that allowing him to continue sitting around the house all day is a bad idea. He should be required to do something, even if it’s just a simple, menial, part-time job — and his parents probably shouldn’t keep accepting all of his excuses for why every single job option is a bad fit for him. 

This is an idea I can heartily endorse, even with the assumption that Night Elf's son has ASD. I spend the better part of my life insisting that my dd who's on the spectrum must get out of bed, must do schoolwork, must do her chores, and on and on. The constant pushing is essential. Pretty soon we'll be where Night Elf is, and I can already see how hard it's going to be, so she has my sympathy. But pushing has to happen. 

This might be a good place to mention Temple Grandin's book, The Loving Push.

https://www.amazon.com/Loving-Push-Professionals-Spectrum-Successful/dp/1941765203/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1536576981&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=the+loving+push&dpPl=1&dpID=51Ri8CvDTyL&ref=plSrch

But it's far easier to help a kid if you have recent documentation of the problems, so along with the pushing, the evaluation needs to happen, also. Then he can get some appropriate support from the various agencies mentioned earlier. It isn't just getting SSI, assuming he qualifies; it's also getting employment training and mentoring.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Innisfree

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

But why do you think that is the case with Beth’s son? He seems to have no problem expressing a multitude of specific reasons why each job is wrong for him. 

Why? Because he has a diagnosis of ASD and that is how ASD works much of the time. If someone diagnosed with ASD is acting like someone with ASD it isn't a far leap to think that the reasons are related to ASD. Yet they can't often communicate, or in the case of "high functioning" don't want to admit, the deeper reasons they are hitting a block so they come up with something superficial. They may not say  "I get overwhelmed" but if you listen to the reasons, they all mean that. He quit the one because he couldn't work fast enough or deal with the work load - he was overwhelmed. He doesn't want to drive in heavy traffic because he doesn't like it..probably because it is overwhelming and anxiety producing. 

Now, the bathroom thing may just be normal "I don't want to" or it could be sensory related, not sure on that one. But not wanting to deal with an irate public, when he knows he has communication deficits? That's smart, not lazy or picky. 

He does need a push, not arguing that, but in the sense of figuring out how to work with his ASD. Which may look very different than with a NT adult. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Ktgrok

[Tap]

26 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

No toilet cleaning unless its a small independent that hasn't contracted cleaning out,

If this is a deal breaker and he decides to go this route, make sure to ask about cleaning responsibilities.  I work for a large chain pharmacy and I clean the bathrooms, waiting rooms and exam/waiting room weekly.  It is usually the job of the entry level person (entry level shift is in the evenings and it makes the most sence to do it during our slower hours) but I do it because the past couple of people were too slow to get it done on their shift and their other responsibilities. We don't clean the main store bathroom, but we do clean the one attached to the pharmacy because it is in a secured area that regular store cleaning person can't access at night (when they work) because the pharmacy is closed. 

[Pen]

If he could get an evaluation maybe he could even go back to Kroger and work there with a lesser speed demand. It sounds like it was a good fit other than the speed issue. 

[TechWife]

Beth,

I admire you for being so open and forthright with what you are facing with your son. It isn't easy, as you know I am in the same position. You have demonstrated an amazing amount of patience and love for your son. You are constantly looking for ways to help him. Keep up the good work.

To those who jumped on Beth for not pushing/not advocating/not requiring enough of her son,

This is why many of us that have children with invisible disabilities don't talk about our children. We are tired of people telling us what we are doing wrong, when in fact, we are doing everything the best we can. We are tired of everyone just thinking we are bad parents because our children misbehave/tantrum/don't hold down a job/fill in the blank. We are exhausted. Beth came here for help and information and there are people telling her that maybe she doesn't understand her child, that she has lived with for 22 or so years and that we have only seen in the print on a computer screen. Would you tell the parent of a child who needed a wheelchair that maybe their child could walk after all if they just took the wheelchair away? Because that's what people are saying here - openly questioning the level of disability and Beth's perceptions of it.

For the record:

Many people with ASD succeed academically but are unable to hold down a full time job. Academics and job demands are two different things.

Many people with ASD are able to express what they like/don't like about a job in a safe environment with someone who cares about them, sometimes over time. It is not unusual for Beth to have been able to figure out what her son liked/didn't like about his previous job. She is a parent who knows her child, like we all do.

Many people with ASD cannot even use a public bathroom, much less clean one. I realize that this is a common part of many jobs, but when someone has ASD, they may be unable to cope with the scenario. Have you ever thought about how loud a pubilc bathroom is? How much it smells? What gloves feel like on a person's hands? What cleaning chemicals smell like? All of this could send someone with ASD into overload and subsequently into a meltdown.

Yes, adults with ASD have meltdowns. That doesn't mean they are crazy, or that their parents are bad parents, or that they are selfish, or whatever. It means that they do not see the world the same way that we do, nor do they interact with the world the way that we do and they.are.overwhelmed.

I could go on, but I'm going to stop, because my heart just hurts reading all of this.

[marbel]

9 minutes ago, Pen said:

If he could get an evaluation maybe he could even go back to Kroger and work there with a lesser speed demand. It sounds like it was a good fit other than the speed issue. 

I think a new evaluation is really key here.  It sounds like the first/only evaluation was over 10 years ago, Beth didn't believe it was correct, and as far as I can tell there was no followup.

@Night Elf I hope you have just been too busy to get back to the thread and haven't abandoned it because you felt discouraged.  People are just trying to be helpful. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by marbel

[Innisfree]

.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Innisfree

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Beth,

I admire you for being so open and forthright with what you are facing with your son. It isn't easy, as you know I am in the same position. You have demonstrated an amazing amount of patience and love for your son. You are constantly looking for ways to help him. Keep up the good work.

To those who jumped on Beth for not pushing/not advocating/not requiring enough of her son,

This is why many of us that have children with invisible disabilities don't talk about our children. We are tired of people telling us what we are doing wrong, when in fact, we are doing everything the best we can. We are tired of everyone just thinking we are bad parents because our children misbehave/tantrum/don't hold down a job/fill in the blank. We are exhausted. Beth came here for help and information and there are people telling her that maybe she doesn't understand her child, that she has lived with for 22 or so years and that we have only seen in the print on a computer screen. Would you tell the parent of a child who needed a wheelchair that maybe their child could walk after all if they just took the wheelchair away? Because that's what people are saying here - openly questioning the level of disability and Beth's perceptions of it.

For the record:

Many people with ASD succeed academically but are unable to hold down a full time job. Academics and job demands are two different things.

Many people with ASD are able to express what they like/don't like about a job in a safe environment with someone who cares about them, sometimes over time. It is not unusual for Beth to have been able to figure out what her son liked/didn't like about his previous job. She is a parent who knows her child, like we all do.

Many people with ASD cannot even use a public bathroom, much less clean one. I realize that this is a common part of many jobs, but when someone has ASD, they may be unable to cope with the scenario. Have you ever thought about how loud a pubilc bathroom is? How much it smells? What gloves feel like on a person's hands? What cleaning chemicals smell like? All of this could send someone with ASD into overload and subsequently into a meltdown.

Yes, adults with ASD have meltdowns. That doesn't mean they are crazy, or that their parents are bad parents, or that they are selfish, or whatever. It means that they do not see the world the same way that we do, nor do they interact with the world the way that we do and they.are.overwhelmed.

I could go on, but I'm going to stop, because my heart just hurts reading all of this.

God bless you. 

Seriously, I'm crying. This. 100 percent this. What I will never understand is how much support and empathy there is for parents of YOUNG kids with ASD. Everyone is all accommodating and at least pays lip service to getting why they kid can't handle normal stuff. But when they hit 18, it all goes away. Maybe we just haven't seen enough diagnosed ASD adults yet for society to get it? I don't know. But yeah.....so much judgement. So much tough love talk. So much "if you just require him/make him" as if you can even DO that with an adult! I mean what is the alternative really, if he won't? Kick your kid with ASD out on the street to be homeless? Really?  Do you have any idea how high the suicide rate is for kids with Aspergers/ASD? Besides, you can't make a kid or adult with ASD do a darned thing. You can't. 

The "just make him" "tough love" talk with an adult with ASD is the equivalent of "if you just spanked him/were stricter" advice to a mom dealing with a small child with ASD. It's not going to work either way, and may do serious long term damage to the relationship and make things way worse. 

Parenting a young adult with ASD  or any disability may be the single most stressful and terrifying thing I can imagine. Every single day you worry about what their life will be like, how to reach them without them shutting down, how hard to push without them tuning you out, plus the CONSTANT sense of shame and the judgement from family and friends who don't get it, plus just the heartbreak of seeing other, NT kids doing so much, and realizing all over again what your child's diagnoses really means. 

If you wouldn't say "just be more strict/tough" to the mom of a 5 yr old with ASD, because you know that isn't how ASD works, please don't do it to the mom of a 20 year old with ASD. It still won't work, and by that point the potential consequences could be literally life threatening. As much as I worry about my kid and a career/school/life, what keeps me up at night is worrying if he will freaking LIVE. Suicide is not an abstract, uncommon thing in this population. Mental health and relationship are every bit as important, or more so, than job training. Now of course, helping them find some kind of success whatever that looks like, will help with mental health, but has to be addressed in a way that doesn't push them too far/hard and they just decide to end the pressure by ending their life. 

[Frances]

55 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

 

Not all pharmacies are retail.    All the ones I am familiar with do not have slack time when on the clock.  An employee is required to actually work, it's not a student job like manning the art museum on some campuses where one can study in the early hours before the crowds arrive.  No toilet cleaning unless its a small independent that hasn't contracted cleaning out, yes some customer service and taking direction from the supervisor, some computer & register work.  It has some intellectual interest that may hold him until he figures out what he's willing to train for. Also, since there are so many, he has flexibility in where he lives once he is experienced. The certification to do the job, if he is in a state that a certificate is req'd, doesn't take long to acquire for a person who is literate and has some bio knowledge. First jobs won't be Goldilocks fits, time to get coaching for that.

As my husband is a pharmacist, I’m quite familiar with how pharmacies work. As someone who is a tech pointed out upthread though, it is likely a very poor fit for him. I believe speed was an issue in his last job, and functioning under a sometimes stressful environment may also pose problems. At least here, hospital jobs are the most sought after and therefore hardest to get, even though they usually pay less because although usually very fast paced, they don’t generally have the stress of dealing with irate customers. And for pharmacists, can often be much more intellectually challenging.

It would be interesting to know if there are pharmacies that work with those needing accommodations and coaching, as lives are at stake and the licenses and livelihood of the pharmacists who are ultimately responsible for every prescription that leaves the pharmacy.

[TechWife]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 If you wouldn't say "just be more strict/tough" to the mom of a 5 yr old with ASD, because you know that isn't how ASD works, please don't do it to the mom of a 20 year old with ASD. It still won't work, and by that point the potential consequences could be literally life threatening. As much as I worry about my kid and a career/school/life, what keeps me up at night is worrying if he will freaking LIVE. Suicide is not an abstract, uncommon thing in this population. Mental health and relationship are every bit as important, or more so, than job training. Now of course, helping them find some kind of success whatever that looks like, will help with mental health, but has to be addressed in a way that doesn't push them too far/hard and they just decide to end the pressure by ending their life. 

This, so much this! I was up late last night and couldn't sleep because I was wondering who would help DS after we die. No one but us understands him. My family would take his money and dh's family would offer no social/emotional support, thinking he should just act like everyone else. I've spent many days/nights worrying about his depression. When he was in college and we had the uni police do safety checks a couple of times not being able to get in touch with him for several days, I was terrified at what they might find (he was okayish). Then, adding on his un-ASD related physical health issues, it was all too much sometimes. Sometimes it still is.

[unsinkable]

31 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Beth,

I admire you for being so open and forthright with what you are facing with your son. It isn't easy, as you know I am in the same position. You have demonstrated an amazing amount of patience and love for your son. You are constantly looking for ways to help him. Keep up the good work.

To those who jumped on Beth for not pushing/not advocating/not requiring enough of her son,

This is why many of us that have children with invisible disabilities don't talk about our children. We are tired of people telling us what we are doing wrong, when in fact, we are doing everything the best we can. We are tired of everyone just thinking we are bad parents because our children misbehave/tantrum/don't hold down a job/fill in the blank. We are exhausted. Beth came here for help and information and there are people telling her that maybe she doesn't understand her child, that she has lived with for 22 or so years and that we have only seen in the print on a computer screen. Would you tell the parent of a child who needed a wheelchair that maybe their child could walk after all if they just took the wheelchair away? Because that's what people are saying here - openly questioning the level of disability and Beth's perceptions of it.

For the record:

Many people with ASD succeed academically but are unable to hold down a full time job. Academics and job demands are two different things.

Many people with ASD are able to express what they like/don't like about a job in a safe environment with someone who cares about them, sometimes over time. It is not unusual for Beth to have been able to figure out what her son liked/didn't like about his previous job. She is a parent who knows her child, like we all do.

Many people with ASD cannot even use a public bathroom, much less clean one. I realize that this is a common part of many jobs, but when someone has ASD, they may be unable to cope with the scenario. Have you ever thought about how loud a pubilc bathroom is? How much it smells? What gloves feel like on a person's hands? What cleaning chemicals smell like? All of this could send someone with ASD into overload and subsequently into a meltdown.

Yes, adults with ASD have meltdowns. That doesn't mean they are crazy, or that their parents are bad parents, or that they are selfish, or whatever. It means that they do not see the world the same way that we do, nor do they interact with the world the way that we do and they.are.overwhelmed.

I could go on, but I'm going to stop, because my heart just hurts reading all of this.

 

I got told I shouldn't be in the college board bc my kid didn't test well. 

And also told that it never happened that a child could  be on a college track then get permanently derailed bc of health and learning issues. (2 different children, BTW)

No one spoke up for me. No one defended me. 

And I'm here trying help Beth, as I have in multiple other threads.

I have disabled children, just not that "right" disabilities to get any advice, commiseration or support here.

 

[TechWife]

Just for some information: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/21/401243060/young-adults-with-autism-more-likely-to-be-unemployed-isolated

 

[unsinkable]

25 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

God bless you. 

Seriously, I'm crying. This. 100 percent this. What I will never understand is how much support and empathy there is for parents of YOUNG kids with ASD. Everyone is all accommodating and at least pays lip service to getting why they kid can't handle normal stuff. But when they hit 18, it all goes away. Maybe we just haven't seen enough diagnosed ASD adults yet for society to get it? I don't know. But yeah.....so much judgement. So much tough love talk. So much "if you just require him/make him" as if you can even DO that with an adult! I mean what is the alternative really, if he won't? Kick your kid with ASD out on the street to be homeless? Really?  Do you have any idea how high the suicide rate is for kids with Aspergers/ASD? Besides, you can't make a kid or adult with ASD do a darned thing. You can't. 

The "just make him" "tough love" talk with an adult with ASD is the equivalent of "if you just spanked him/were stricter" advice to a mom dealing with a small child with ASD. It's not going to work either way, and may do serious long term damage to the relationship and make things way worse. 

Parenting a young adult with ASD  or any disability may be the single most stressful and terrifying thing I can imagine. Every single day you worry about what their life will be like, how to reach them without them shutting down, how hard to push without them tuning you out, plus the CONSTANT sense of shame and the judgement from family and friends who don't get it, plus just the heartbreak of seeing other, NT kids doing so much, and realizing all over again what your child's diagnoses really means. 

If you wouldn't say "just be more strict/tough" to the mom of a 5 yr old with ASD, because you know that isn't how ASD works, please don't do it to the mom of a 20 year old with ASD. It still won't work, and by that point the potential consequences could be literally life threatening. As much as I worry about my kid and a career/school/life, what keeps me up at night is worrying if he will freaking LIVE. Suicide is not an abstract, uncommon thing in this population. Mental health and relationship are every bit as important, or more so, than job training. Now of course, helping them find some kind of success whatever that looks like, will help with mental health, but has to be addressed in a way that doesn't push them too far/hard and they just decide to end the pressure by ending their life. 

Do YOU know how much higher the suicide rate for people with epilepsy is vs general population ?

do YOU know what SUDEP is? And how it happens more with teens and young adults?

 

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Just for some information: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/21/401243060/young-adults-with-autism-more-likely-to-be-unemployed-isolated

 

 

Just read that. 

One thing I notice different between young adults I know with ASD and a couple with very low intelligence is that the latter seem very happy with doing a job that they can do at their level. The ASD young adults have a serious mismatch between what they are capable of doing due to their deficits, and yet higher ability in some areas that leaves them either more bored and frustrated with a job they can manage, or more overwhelmed with aspects of a job that are affected by their impairments. And less flexibly able to cope with or work around the the difficulties. 

Plus the typical black white thinking seems to make it harder to feel okay with a job which is (as most or all jobs are) a mixed bag gray. 

[WendyLady]

I recently attended an information night with a presenter from the labor department.  The woman was a wealth of information about programs available for young adults who are unsure of the next step.  She said that these lost young adults are a major concern across the country - you are not alone!!  

She talked about a variety of helps available from testing, to job counseling, to educational opportunities for those ages 18-26ish who have been out of school for over a year.  

It might just be a starting place.  Telling a child that I require them to work a part time job is sort of daunting.  Finding a do-able part time job is tough for any age.  But going to the labor department and starting the process might be a more reachable goal.

[katilac]

4 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

 

I'll have to disagree with you; people w/autism do successfully hold pharm tech jobs.  He'll have to work with his coach and the management to decide if a particular job is a good enough fit or not.  But giving up before even doing the evaluation is something I cant advocate.  

 

I didn't understand her to mean that no one with autism could hold a pharm tech job, but rather that it's not a good fit for this particular young person because he has already had issues with a fast pace on the job. A fast pace with no slack time is likely to not be a good fit for him. 

[Catwoman]

22 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

I got told I shouldn't be in the college board bc my kid didn't test well. 

And also told that it never happened that a child could  be on a college track then get permanently derailed bc of health and learning issues. (2 different children, BTW)

No one spoke up for me. No one defended me. 

And I'm here trying help Beth, as I have in multiple other threads.

I have disabled children, just not that "right" disabilities to get any advice, commiseration or support here.

 

 

I’m so sorry you didn’t get the support you needed. ?

I can see that a few posters here are very upset by my posts to this thread, but I can’t help but wonder if those same people have seen Beth start what amounts to this exact same thread over and over again in the past. She has always gotten a lot of support and people have repeatedly suggested she get her son evaluated so he would have a proper diagnosis. People have suggested he get more counseling. People have suggested that he work only part time. People have suggested he take only a few college courses at a time. People have suggested all of the things that have been suggested (again) in this thread.

But nothing changes. The excuses for doing nothing are always the same. I feel sorry for Beth because I know her anxiety makes many things difficult for her. I feel sorry for her son because he’s not moving forward in his life. But I also don’t think her son can keep sitting on the couch all day playing video games. I don’t think it’s healthy to keep excusing him from all responsibility.  Whether or not autism is at play here, this young man is now an adult who needs to learn to function in the real world, and that doesn’t seem to be happening. If he doesn’t get an evaluation (and hopefully cournseling, as well) and Beth continues the same pattern of accepting all of her son’s multiple excuses about why every single job won’t be good for him, we will be right back here in another few months discussing this exact same issue. 

No one in this thread is being heartless. We are all concerned about both Beth and her son. But if he does have ASD, making excuses for why he behaves as he does isn’t really helping him if he isn’t also receiving a detailed diagnosis and appropriate treatment so he will be able to get off the couch and get on with his life, even if it’s just a small part time job or a college course or two. In other words, sympathize with his difficulties, but also get him the help he needs. And if the evaluation shows that autism is not the issue, he may still benefit greatly from counseling to help him figure out his path in life.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

If he could get an evaluation maybe he could even go back to Kroger and work there with a lesser speed demand. It sounds like it was a good fit other than the speed issue. 

 

1 hour ago, marbel said:

I think a new evaluation is really key here.  It sounds like the first/only evaluation was over 10 years ago, Beth didn't believe it was correct, and as far as I can tell there was no followup.

@Night Elf I hope you have just been too busy to get back to the thread and haven't abandoned it because you felt discouraged.  People are just trying to be helpful. 

 

I agree. It also sounds like the original evaluation was pretty unprofessional, so I don’t think it should necessarily be accepted as accurate. None of us really knows what’s actually going on with this young man, and I’m not sure it’s a great idea to be diagnosing something as serious as autism based on some internet posts that could be interpreted in several different ways depending on individual perspective. I think the new evaluation is the most important thing, because it could be so helpful to both Beth and her son, and if the evaluation specifies autism, that could help determine what kind of professional help he needs and how to assist him in moving forward.