Asking young adults to contribute to household

[Night Elf]

Maybe what he needs to do is completely reset his sleep schedule. Changing his bedtime by an hour every few weeks or months isn’t going to get him to a more “normal†sleep schedule for a very, very long time.

 

Your son needs to consider a day job so he will have more options. There are many, many opportunities aside from retail. I’m not sure why you are locked into retail as his only choice. :confused:

 

He could be a receptionist or an office clerk at any kind of business, get a job in online customer service, work at the post office, load UPS trucks, train to become a plumber or an electrician or a heating and air conditioning repairman, become a hair stylist — or sweep the floors at a hair salon or get a job transporting patients around your local hospital if you think he prefers a menial job. And those are just a few ideas off the top of my head. There are so many options.

 

Your focus is so narrow and I don’t understand that at all.

 

He doesn't want to work in an office. Besides, he has no office skills. He can't type except with a few fingers so he doens't type fast. And that's after a year of working with a typing software while in high school. He doesn't like talking on the phone. He mumbles and can't focus on what they're saying. When he does need to call, I have to role play with him and type out sentences he can use to ask his questions so he sits by the computer while he's on the phone. I think to work at the post office he'd have to take a test, wouldn't he? I don't know much about it. We don't have a local UPS place that loads trucks. The only place near us that works with trucks besides grocery stores is the Tyson chicken plant and he could never work there. It stinks just to drive by and he has sensitivities to odors, certain tastes and textures, noise, and touch. He's not interested in the medical setting. I tried that one on him already. I think it takes a special caring person and I hate to say it, but he doesn't exude sympathy.

 

He'd have to go to school for electric work or plumbing and our local tech school doesn't offer those majors. They do offer PC repair and network technician which I thought could be good for him but he said he didn't like computers enough to get into the hardware.

 

That's why I'm locked into retail. I suggested he apply to the Game Stops since he likes video games but he didn't like that idea either. I can't think of any retail job more suitable for him than that.

 

He is the one limiting his possibilities. What he's looking for is work at your own pace, set your own hours, work from home, and not be on the telephone.

[LarlaB]

Yeah, I think you should charge rent- especially in this case, as he doesn't seem motivated to change or uncomfortable with any part of the situation....so why would he change? Its unlikely that he will organically change, so you may need to change the situation for him- to make it less comfortable which will in turn motivate him.  Its great that he's so willing to do what you suggest, but part of being an adult is not always needing to be told/asked/prompted towards responsible decisions.

If you charge rent and don't need the money, I know several families who put that money into a savings account for the adult/child- with the intent that its a down payment on a house someday.  You don't have to tell the adult/child.  It builds discipline but is also a gracious thing for the adult child, in the end. 

And honestly a lot of work isn't about 'hopes and dreams and career goals' when you are in your early 20's.  And work/vocation is supposed to be the bigger priority instead of sleep and comfort.  I know that sounds harsh, but its a chronic issue I'm seeing in young adults.  They don't like hard or uncomfortable.  Well, honestly- neither do I. But my bills keep coming and therefore I am motivated to work.  

Also I don't understand the 'retail is the only option' approach either.  I worked retail- evenings and weekends because it fit with school (High school & college.  But there is also:  Food business. Light Manufacturing.  Delivery. Warehouse. Manual Skilled labor (machinist, welding, electrician, mechanic, plumber- which will require training, yes ).  Banking.  Manual Labor.  Maintenance.  Commercial Cleaning Service.  Again, nothing that might make him jump up and down at the moment because, well, change is hard.  But there are jobs where high people interaction isn't a central aspect of the job. 
 

I have familiarity with ASD and have watched a friend parent a 23 yr old who is similarly an "all or nothing, black and white thinker" who was positive he'd hate every job option she suggested.  He had no suggestions of his own of course, but KNEW he couldn't do anything or wouldn't like something (even though he never tried it, obviously). IMHO, the issue was that because he was comfortable living off of them, he was unmotivated and stuck in a rut- so it was a power struggle between the mom and adult/child- he would just fight every idea or option she put out there- (black and white thinking yes- but also youthful, enabled, arrogance).  Once they pushed him and he had bills he had to pay, it kind of clicked for him that he couldn't have the perfect job but could find something that he enjoyed which would give him money for his hobbies plus living expenses. He had to buy cereal.  Pay the phone bill.  Do his laundry.  Once he felt the weight of responsibility, somehow it pushed/pulled him towards being more motivated to try more things. 

He works for an inventory company- which might be good for your son.  Task oriented and all. 

[Catwoman]

He doesn't want to work in an office. Besides, he has no office skills. He can't type except with a few fingers so he doens't type fast. And that's after a year of working with a typing software while in high school. He doesn't like talking on the phone. He mumbles and can't focus on what they're saying. When he does need to call, I have to role play with him and type out sentences he can use to ask his questions so he sits by the computer while he's on the phone. I think to work at the post office he'd have to take a test, wouldn't he? I don't know much about it. We don't have a local UPS place that loads trucks. The only place near us that works with trucks besides grocery stores is the Tyson chicken plant and he could never work there. It stinks just to drive by and he has sensitivities to odors, certain tastes and textures, noise, and touch. He's not interested in the medical setting. I tried that one on him already. I think it takes a special caring person and I hate to say it, but he doesn't exude sympathy.

 

He'd have to go to school for electric work or plumbing and our local tech school doesn't offer those majors. They do offer PC repair and network technician which I thought could be good for him but he said he didn't like computers enough to get into the hardware.

 

That's why I'm locked into retail. I suggested he apply to the Game Stops since he likes video games but he didn't like that idea either. I can't think of any retail job more suitable for him than that.

 

He is the one limiting his possibilities. What he's looking for is work at your own pace, set your own hours, work from home, and not be on the telephone.

I have to be honest with you, Beth, and I hope this doesn’t come across as being harsh because I don’t mean it that way, but every time you start a thread about this topic, you ask for suggestions but then make excuses about why none of them will work for your son.

 

I know you love him and want to help him. That is very clear in all of your posts. But I think at this point, you may be enabling him more than you’re helping him. It’s as though you can’t stand the idea of him ever being even slightly uncomfortable or having to go even a little bit out of his comfort zone.

 

How is he ever going to achieve anything in his life if he never tries anything different from the things he already knows?

 

He can’t sleep whenever he wants, not go for any kind of training, not deal with people, and never do anything he doesn’t “like†if he is going to succeed as an adult in the real world. Plenty of people with his personality type and his diagnosis are self-supporting and successful at getting and keeping a full time job. Your son can be one of those people, too, if you cut back a little bit on the coddling and if you stop letting him believe that he never has to do anything at all that he doesn’t like to do.

[Carrie12345]

As another parent of a young adult aspie, I'll suggest taking the autism label OUT of the equation and focus on the actual manifestations of your particular child's disorder.  Because Asperger's isn't the reason some people are unable to do certain things.  Maybe the different manifestations are, but then you'd need to pinpoint those to know.

 

Mine is rather disorganized, a little pie-in-the-sky, not so great with long term plans, and frustrates easily.  These things stink, and we work with them. But there is NO. WAY. any of his 4 parents (and that's both an advantage and a disadvantage, lol) would allow him to sit on his rump and navel gaze.  And no therapist we've ever worked with would condone that. Every one was all about supporting him to meet challenges to the best of his ability, not to avoid them.

 

"You need to X by Y or Z will happen."  Is it flawless? No.  Reasonable expectations are important.  Having daytime obligations is a reasonable expectation.  Actively working toward a future (dream future or not) is a reasonable expectation.  Providing appropriate therapies for specific manifestations is a reasonable parental responsibility.  Basic life needs are reasonable parental responsibilities.  Working with therapists on our own to identify why we're struggling to set boundaries with our special kids can be pretty darn important. (BTDT.)

[ktgrok]

Why doesn’t have anyone to talk to you on the phone? Or text? Does he have any friends at all? Even online ones? That’s a big red flag to me about depression. There’s introvert, and there is depressed. He really needs to get outside the house. I would ask him to spend his time volunteering if he is not going to work or go to school. But part of your job raising him is to help him become a productive citizen. Right now he is not productive at all. Think of three volunteer jobs he might enjoy and give him the contact information for each. Ask him to contact one of them to do it. I can say that volunteering has been the biggest thing To help my kid with asked burgers syndrome. By far.

[SKL]

I am torn on this issue.  I would prefer not to ask for $$ if I didn't need it, but I can see why you want to require him to get out and work, and that you can't control what an adult does other than by limiting your support.

 

I would look into reasonable market rates for renting a room in someone else's house, and then lay it out and give him some advance notice before you start charging.  Hopefully he will understand that it's in his best interest to keep an active resume.  I would probably allow him to do volunteer work (and not pay rent) if it was of a type to build a resume.

[Night Elf]

Okay, DH and I talked while shopping today and came up with a plan for now. When ds quit his job on Nov. 7th, we told him he had 6 months to explore other options. At the end of that 6 months, he needed to get another job, go to school, or be actively productive in whatever job opportunity he found online. In other words, he needs to physically show us he's doing something to earn money. So, that 6 months is up on May 7th. DH wants to have a talk with ds tonight about what we agreed on last November just in case he's forgotten. So he's giving him until May 7th to be doing one of those 3 things. If he chooses school, he'll continue paying what he's paying for now since he has so much money saved up but we won't expect any further monetary contribution. If he chooses work, he'll pay $300 towards the household which is generous. He'll start off part-time but when he increases to full-time, his monthly household contribution will increase as well. The leverage DH has is the internet. He wants to wait until the beginning of May to tell him that if he refuses to get a job or go to school, DH will cut off his internet. He can't get his own without our permission since this house is in our name. He'll have his smart phone but he won't like that as his only source of internet. I personally think he should tell him that now and not spring it on him the week before his deadline to choose what option he plans to do. We're still talking about that. DH doesn't want to introduce a negative into the situation right away. What do you think?

[Night Elf]

I have to be honest with you, Beth, and I hope this doesn’t come across as being harsh because I don’t mean it that way, but every time you start a thread about this topic, you ask for suggestions but then make excuses about why none of them will work for your son.

 

I know you love him and want to help him. That is very clear in all of your posts. But I think at this point, you may be enabling him more than you’re helping him. It’s as though you can’t stand the idea of him ever being even slightly uncomfortable or having to go even a little bit out of his comfort zone.

 

How is he ever going to achieve anything in his life if he never tries anything different from the things he already knows?

 

He can’t sleep whenever he wants, not go for any kind of training, not deal with people, and never do anything he doesn’t “like†if he is going to succeed as an adult in the real world. Plenty of people with his personality type and his diagnosis are self-supporting and successful at getting and keeping a full time job. Your son can be one of those people, too, if you cut back a little bit on the coddling and if you stop letting him believe that he never has to do anything at all that he doesn’t like to do.

 

I understand and hear what you're saying but I don't believe the ball is in my court. I do take all of your ideas and present them to him. I want HIM to make those decisions. He is lazy. Part of his problems is his Aspergers but the truth is he's lazy. Yes, we've made things comfortable for him beginning at age 4 when he started exhibiting autistic behaviors. We homeschooled him which I now regret, at least partly. Of course I've also heard stories of Aspies being in school and it being the worst thing ever so I don't know if we did right by him or not. He did some actual school work leading up to high school but we unschooled a great deal of the time and he learned things on his own. When he started high school at age 13, he did great. He used an online accredited high school because we wanted him to earn a diploma that a college would accept. He had a 4.0 gpa when he graduated. He took 4 classes at university and made A's in all of them. He knows how to be a student. He just didn't like it.

 

Anyway, we got so used to working around his difficulties that it just continued into adulthood. He only wanted to take 2 college classes at a time so that's what he did. This is why he only has 4 classes under his belt. That was his first year of school. When the second year began, he made it two days and was sobbing because he didn't want to continue. We understood college isn't for everyone so we allowed him to quit. He was so happy to quit that he agreed to counseling and found a job within a month. He did great for that year while he was working. He learned a great deal including how to interact with coworkers and a supervisor. He lost some weight and gained some muscle as he worked a physical job. It suited him.

 

Yes, I know being a total introvert isn't great. I've been one for years. Now that I volunteer 6 hours a week, I get interaction with a couple of ladies. But I do not have friends. DH enjoys the company of his coworkers but he doesn't see them outside the office. He has no friends. We're just an introverted family. We're succeeding in life as far as meeting the goals we set for ourselves. Sure it would be nice to have someone to go shopping with occasionally, or just to go grab a coffee. I don't know how to meet people. We have no hobbies. 

 

Ds does not have online friends. He doesn't play games with other people. He didn't like the experience as most of his interactions were with jerks.

 

We have a game plan to get ds working. Where he'll work is up in the air. Being reminded he needs to be doing something by May should help him really start looking at his options. At first he said he spent time every night looking into opportunities but I doubt he's doing anything now. 

 

I'll run the post office job by him. Working in the back doing whatever they do could be a good plan.

[Carrie12345]

 What do you think?

 

I think that sounds like a good beginning to an "X by Y or Z will happen."  Behind the scenes, I'd try to have a plan of action for potential resistance. 

[DawnM]

I thought at one time you said he would be interested in game design/game engine programming?  If that is still the case, I would look for something either in your area or online.  For my son's program (he started out with this and has now narrowed his field), you technically could do it all online.  And it was a Community College.  If I were in your shoes, I might look at all of your state CC programs and see if any of them offer it, even if not close to you, so he could look and see if that might interest him.  And he could do it on his current sleep schedule! BONUS!

[Night Elf]

I think that sounds like a good beginning to an "X by Y or Z will happen."  Behind the scenes, I'd try to have a plan of action for potential resistance. 

 

The internet is the only leverage we have. There is no where else he can go. He can't live with family in Wisconsin because no one has room. He can't live with my mom because she takes care of my stepdad and grandmother. Besides, he'd need to get a drivers license and car if he moved out as no one else could drive him around like I can. The last time he tried driving, he kept running off the road and it frustrated him. We didn't feel he was ready which is why we didn't push it. 

 

We're at a loss for what else we could do.

[freesia]

I have to be honest with you, Beth, and I hope this doesn’t come across as being harsh because I don’t mean it that way, but every time you start a thread about this topic, you ask for suggestions but then make excuses about why none of them will work for your son.

 

I know you love him and want to help him. That is very clear in all of your posts. But I think at this point, you may be enabling him more than you’re helping him. It’s as though you can’t stand the idea of him ever being even slightly uncomfortable or having to go even a little bit out of his comfort zone.

 

How is he ever going to achieve anything in his life if he never tries anything different from the things he already knows?

 

He can’t sleep whenever he wants, not go for any kind of training, not deal with people, and never do anything he doesn’t “like†if he is going to succeed as an adult in the real world. Plenty of people with his personality type and his diagnosis are self-supporting and successful at getting and keeping a full time job. Your son can be one of those people, too, if you cut back a little bit on the coddling and if you stop letting him believe that he never has to do anything at all that he doesn’t like to do.

I agree. It's okay for him to be unhappy ( and lest you think I'm saying I have it all figured out--I went to counseling to learn that ). It can be good to be unhappy / do things you don't like and learn to cope through that.

[hornblower]

 

 

We're at a loss for what else we could do.

It strikes me that church folks have a good solution to this young adult ennui - - the travelling on a mission experience. 

 

you can duplicate it with the numerous volunteer abroad experiences. Really, pretty much everyone I've ever talked to has said these opportunities are really life changing. https://www.volunteerforever.com/article_post/2017-best-volunteer-abroad-programs-organizations-projects

 

Or if you want to keep him in country, have him volunteer out of state with Habitat for Humanity or one of the farm worker programs.  

 

If you can't send him away, fwiw, I wouldn't make him pay for things. I would insist he work 40 h/week either for pay or volunteering. 

I wouldn't care what hours he's up, so long as he puts in 40h of work each week around his schedule. If he can't, then yes, that sleep schedule needs to change & I would scroll through the volunteer jobs in the local papers, find something that needs doing ("local needs general helper to assist w/ shed demolish and wood stacking" for ex), drive him there & pick him up 10h later. Reach out to the volunteer bureau and say you have a young man who is not really experienced but can work if someone shows him what to do. I wouldn't care what the work was - send him out to do anything where someone will just show him what to do. 

 

I think you have to keep trying different stuff until whatever is holding him gets unstuck. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by hornblower

[DawnM]

I understand and hear what you're saying but I don't believe the ball is in my court. I do take all of your ideas and present them to him. I want HIM to make those decisions. He is lazy. Part of his problems is his Aspergers but the truth is he's lazy. Yes, we've made things comfortable for him beginning at age 4 when he started exhibiting autistic behaviors. We homeschooled him which I now regret, at least partly. Of course I've also heard stories of Aspies being in school and it being the worst thing ever so I don't know if we did right by him or not. He did some actual school work leading up to high school but we unschooled a great deal of the time and he learned things on his own. When he started high school at age 13, he did great. He used an online accredited high school because we wanted him to earn a diploma that a college would accept. He had a 4.0 gpa when he graduated. He took 4 classes at university and made A's in all of them. He knows how to be a student. He just didn't like it.

 

Anyway, we got so used to working around his difficulties that it just continued into adulthood. He only wanted to take 2 college classes at a time so that's what he did. This is why he only has 4 classes under his belt. That was his first year of school. When the second year began, he made it two days and was sobbing because he didn't want to continue. We understood college isn't for everyone so we allowed him to quit. He was so happy to quit that he agreed to counseling and found a job within a month. He did great for that year while he was working. He learned a great deal including how to interact with coworkers and a supervisor. He lost some weight and gained some muscle as he worked a physical job. It suited him.

 

Yes, I know being a total introvert isn't great. I've been one for years. Now that I volunteer 6 hours a week, I get interaction with a couple of ladies. But I do not have friends. DH enjoys the company of his coworkers but he doesn't see them outside the office. He has no friends. We're just an introverted family. We're succeeding in life as far as meeting the goals we set for ourselves. Sure it would be nice to have someone to go shopping with occasionally, or just to go grab a coffee. I don't know how to meet people. We have no hobbies. 

 

Ds does not have online friends. He doesn't play games with other people. He didn't like the experience as most of his interactions were with jerks.

 

We have a game plan to get ds working. Where he'll work is up in the air. Being reminded he needs to be doing something by May should help him really start looking at his options. At first he said he spent time every night looking into opportunities but I doubt he's doing anything now. 

 

I'll run the post office job by him. Working in the back doing whatever they do could be a good plan.

 

 

What do I think?  I am worried that a May 7 deadline (5-6 weeks) isn't enough.  It takes a while to get a job, and school doesn't start until Aug/Sept.

 

So, what is the provision for that?

It took me 4 months to find a job.  If you cut off my internet and start changing me, how will that work?  

[aaplank]

I think your husband's plan is right on target. I also think it's a good idea to hold off the consequence until he doesn't comply. Don't want to throw too much at him at once.

 

Good luck with everything. It sounds like a tough situation, but I'm hoping positive outcomes come from your prodding. Don't give up!

[Storygirl]

Okay, DH and I talked while shopping today and came up with a plan for now. When ds quit his job on Nov. 7th, we told him he had 6 months to explore other options. At the end of that 6 months, he needed to get another job, go to school, or be actively productive in whatever job opportunity he found online. In other words, he needs to physically show us he's doing something to earn money. So, that 6 months is up on May 7th. DH wants to have a talk with ds tonight about what we agreed on last November just in case he's forgotten. So he's giving him until May 7th to be doing one of those 3 things. If he chooses school, he'll continue paying what he's paying for now since he has so much money saved up but we won't expect any further monetary contribution. If he chooses work, he'll pay $300 towards the household which is generous. He'll start off part-time but when he increases to full-time, his monthly household contribution will increase as well. The leverage DH has is the internet. He wants to wait until the beginning of May to tell him that if he refuses to get a job or go to school, DH will cut off his internet. He can't get his own without our permission since this house is in our name. He'll have his smart phone but he won't like that as his only source of internet. I personally think he should tell him that now and not spring it on him the week before his deadline to choose what option he plans to do. We're still talking about that. DH doesn't want to introduce a negative into the situation right away. What do you think?

 

I think waiting until May to tell him the internet consequence may not be the greatest idea. If he has to have a plan in place by May 7, but you don't spell out the consequences until May 1 or after, it leaves very little time for him to regroup, if necessary.

 

If you set May 7 as the original deadline, it makes sense to stick with it, but I would lay out all of the requirements and consequences now.

 

And if you mean he needs a plan by May 7, that is different than saying he needs a job by May 7. If he needs a job by May, he should be hunting now. So I think you need to make it very clear exactly what you mean by the deadlines and suggest steps he can take between now and then. Perhaps have another meeting with him in April to discuss his progress toward his goal, to make sure he is not leaving all decisions until the last minute.

 

[Bootsie]

I am having a difficult time getting a picture of exactly what his expenditures look like at the moment.  

 

Eating out 7 days a week would get expensive.  Does he walk to these place to eat?  Does he eat by himself?  Or, do you live in a walkable community with a number of eating possibilities nearby?  Is he using public transportation?  I am having difficulty picturing how he will be able to continue to do this on a daily basis for an extended period of time.   

 

I would be somewhat against the idea of charging him $300 to start with if he is working part-time and then increasing what you are charging him if he works full-time--that seems to discourage working full time.  I would be more likely to say something like "We will start charging $300 a month in May and it will increase by $50 each month over the next year until it reaches $900 per month by May 2019"

 

 

[bettyandbob]

I don't think you can say he's covering his med and dental. Someone has a job that is paying for insurance. Eventually, get will age out of your insurance. Is he 20-21? Five years until he has to get his own insurance is a very short time to get oneself together to manage that expense.

 

I have a 2e DS who we have to constantly push to make each next step towards self sufficient adult. He is doing it one little step at a time. He's in grad school studying a subject he likes, without a plan what to do with it. But he also has a job (that he's not thrilled about) to support that endeavor. He's generally late in figuring out the next step (what classes he should have taken, finding internships, finding campus apartments), but he's slowly figuring out he has to do stuff despite being perpetually late to the party.

 

Your DS sounds stuck and lacks understanding that the next step towards an independent adult life is not optional.

[Cindy in FL.]

Maybe you could hold off on telling him about the consequence until he is 2-3 weeks from May 7th. If he does not seem to be working towards one of his options, your dh can explain the consequence at that point to hopefully encourage him in the right direction.

[Kassia]

I don't think you can say he's covering his med and dental. Someone has a job that is paying for insurance. 

 

With our family plan, we pay per child for medical insurance (we don't have dental) and it's quite expensive.  I think $225/month per child.  

[itsheresomewhere]

Please stop saying he is lazy. He is not. It is called Executive Function Disorder and just from everything you have posted over time, he is waving this flag. I highly recommend you read up on this so you can understand your son. Start with reading Smart but Scattered.

[Rosika]

Maybe you could hold off on telling him about the consequence until he is 2-3 weeks from May 7th. If he does not seem to be working towards one of his options, your dh can explain the consequence at that point to hopefully encourage him in the right direction.

 

This sounds like a great compromise. My son doesn't have Asperger's, but he's the kind of kid where I get your husband's point. This kid deserves to know all of the information beforehand so he can make good, informed choices ... but all that does in the short-term is give the child something to argue, complain about, or otherwise make us regret giving him the information in such advance. And it's almost like he then hyperfocuses on that one aspect he feels is unfair or arguable, and it's exhausting, frustrating, and distracts him from our REAL goal of moving him forward.

 

With my son I have to do things on a graduated schedule. If it were he and I in your shoes, I'd have the "Come to Jesus" talk ASAP with the caveat that we'll check in again on April 7th. April 7th is when we'd disclose the internet thing. That gives your son a few weeks to let the new plan marinate and to take steps in the direction he wishes to go ... but it also gives him a month to kick it into gear, if he flits away March.

 

Good luck, OP.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Rosika

[Eagle]

What about online post-secondary courses? He could try courses in various fields to assess his interest. If he finds something he likes he could pursue a degree.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think you have a pretty good plan now.

 

My inclination would be to start asking him to do more around the house just in general.  Meaning that I would give him specific cleaning, gardening, maintenance, and refurbishing assignments every day.  That way he is helping you, learning skills, and pushed out of laying around.

 

I will say, there is no job more suited to his sleep schedule than computer programming.  I wish he would revisit that.  Loving your job is really overrated.  HAVING a job is crucial.

[Night Elf]

Beth, I’ve mentioned this place before on another thread, but I don’t know if you saw my post. It may not be an option, but I wanted to make sure you were at least aware of this place. It’s in warm springs, just above Columbus. https://gvs.georgia.gov/roosevelt-warm-springs-0

 

My cousin with aspergers went and my mom’s friend’s son went. My cousin got homesick midway through the program and came home, but the other guy finished the program. Both did really well and learned a lot and had a good experience there. It taught them job skills and helped them find jobs.

 

My cousin is now working at a college in north Georgia in their food services department. He went to technical college here (south georgia) and got a certificate in culinary arts. He worked as a cook at Chick-fil-A throughout school. He is introverted, a mumbler (very hard to understand) and just very typical aspergers, I guess. This fall, he moved to north Georgia because of his new job, on his own! He lived with a family friend of his grandmother for a couple months to get his bearings, and is now about to move into a place of his ‘own’ (with a roommate). Anyway, that place I mentioned above helped him gain some experience and independence. Your ds sounds very much like my cousin a few years ago.

Anyway, (((hugs)))... I know it’s a hard place to be in for the family.

 

The VR site says "To qualify for vocational rehabilitation services, your disability must be permanent and affect your ability to work in at least two ways. Each person's situation is considered individually." 

 

I honestly cannot think of two ways that his ability to work is affected. What do they mean by this?

[LucyStoner]

Have you looked into JobCorps? A nephew who has Asperger's and bipolar did JobCorps (don't be put off by the "low income" thing because his parents make tons of money and that wasn't a problem getting him in) and it has given him job skills, taught him to drive, and other life skills. It's been really good for him. He no longer lives at home and is self-supporting.

 

In our immediate family (I have two brothers on the spectrum also), the expectation was college and full time job. Didn't really matter if they were "happy." They got it done and support themselves. Now, the younger one still lives with my parents at age 34 and will probably never move out because it's so comfortable. But he at least has a full time job and owns his own vehicle and such. He did have to switch majors from Computer Science to English major (with minor in CS) for that younger one, but he still was expected to finish school.

 

Don't know if any of that is helpful, but sometimes you have to make kids do what they need to do, whether they like it or not. You may have to dig your heels in harder than he has dug his, for his future.

 

((hugs))

I was going to recommend JobCorps as well. My friends have a 22 year old son with an Aspergers dx who wasn’t college ready at the time of his graduation from high school and the reality was he was never going to be college ready. He entered Job Corps for a year, became a welder and now works in manufacturing. He’s a night owl and loves his shift and he makes quite a bit more than what he’d earn stocking here. It’s a livable wage for a single man and then some. He lived at home for the first year of his job after job corps and now he’s on his own with a roommate from work.

 

My friends are quite well off- he qualified because of his disability, not their income.

[Night Elf]

The May 7th deadline is to choose an option. If he doesn't want to go to school he needs to start looking for a job. If he does choose school, that doesn't start until August. He wouldn't go to summer school. It's too difficult with such a short intense semester. He'd hate it and quit again.

[DawnM]

The VR site says "To qualify for vocational rehabilitation services, your disability must be permanent and affect your ability to work in at least two ways. Each person's situation is considered individually." 

 

I honestly cannot think of two ways that his ability to work is affected. What do they mean by this?

 

http://autismnow.org/on-the-job/vocational-rehabilitation/#Eligible

[Night Elf]

http://autismnow.org/on-the-job/vocational-rehabilitation/#Eligible

 

There's an office not far from us. I'll have ds look into this. I still worry about his eligibility. He's proven he can be a great student and a good employee who can hold down a job. And of course if they do require financial limitations and they look at our income, he won't qualify.

 

They should have better information about jobs than his last counselor did though. This is a good resource.

[SKL]

I think it's fine to cut off the internet, but I would give him more notice about that.  Since you just decided that now, I would tell him now.  It still gives him less than 2 months to react, which isn't very much when you're talking about employment.  I would remind him that you did have the conversation about him needing to do something x months ago.

 

I would just point out that if going to school is an option, that can be used as a time waster (and money waster) if he's just doing it to avoid having to get a job.  I think I would insist on him getting a job even if he plans to go to school come August or go to school part time or whatever.  Also the school option would be contingent on him pursuing a serious program and doing well.

[LucyStoner]

Unemployment for young people with autism dx is actually very high, even for those with degrees and even among those who are disabled in various ways. The shift towards the service industry as our main source of lower skilled, entry level jobs is part of this.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/04/21/401243060/young-adults-with-autism-more-likely-to-be-unemployed-isolated

 

There are more young people with autism who are not self supporting that there are who are self supporting and resources are a bit sparse.

 

I’m not saying that this means he shouldn’t work or contribute.

 

I’m not saying he can’t work or contribute.

 

But many here seem to really be minimizing the challenges that he’s facing.

 

There are lots of things that my son, age 14 and with a very high IQ, struggles to do. Things that neurotypical 4 year olds can generally do. Really simple things, things that many people would say “well, he just needs to do thatâ€. Uh, I wish. I really wish it worked that way but it does not.

 

It sounds to me like he really hasn’t received consistent or the most effective supports and therapy. I don’t think arbitrary deadlines will help him much. And I would count finding an effective therapist he connects with as key part of his daily living activities, as imporatant as working or studying.

Edited March 18, 2018 by LucyStoner

[TechWife]

Instead of telling him his internet will be cut off, could you tell him he will have to begin paying for internet access on May 7? That way he will have the motivation to find a job due to the additional expense and he will still be responsible for the access after he starts working. Remember, you can set the price you charge him. For example, you could have him pay the entire bill for internet, not just a portion of it. After all, you and your husband are paying the entire electric bill, for example. This becomes part of his regular household responsibility. This would be in addition to any rent you decide to charge him.

[LucyStoner]

Because he's young and may work in a lower wage job for a lot of his working life, I think the most important thing you can do for him now is to use any rent you charge him to put into an IRA for him.  Saving a little now is more valuable to him in 40 years than saving a lot starting 10-30 years from now.

[Bootsie]

The May 7th deadline is to choose an option. If he doesn't want to go to school he needs to start looking for a job. If he does choose school, that doesn't start until August. He wouldn't go to summer school. It's too difficult with such a short intense semester. He'd hate it and quit again.

To me, that seems like a long time to just choose an option.  I would be afraid that there would be a tendency on May 7 to say "I choose school" knowing that means that nothing needs to change until August--and then what happens if he changes his mind by then.  I would see no reason why a young person should not get at least a part time job until school starts in August.  

 

I wonder if much more concrete, specific goals would be helpful.  Things such as:  apply for at least 3 jobs per week.  

[DawnM]

There's an office not far from us. I'll have ds look into this. I still worry about his eligibility. He's proven he can be a great student and a good employee who can hold down a job. And of course if they do require financial limitations and they look at our income, he won't qualify.

 

They should have better information about jobs than his last counselor did though. This is a good resource.

 

My son is capable, that isn't the issue.  The issue is, can they function in the work environment?  My can can PHYSICALLY do the work, but with a bad boss, the wrong coworkers, etc....he can't do it.  

 

Same goes for School.  If my son sees no value to the class, he doesn't do the work.  

 

Both of the above are part of his disability.  

 

And I was told they don't look at income at all.  Is that on that page?  I will have to go back and look because my understanding was that income wasn't considered.

[wendyroo]

DH and I have already starting talking about how we will support our children, Peter especially with his ASD, ADHD and anxiety, in their transition to independence.  We know there is really no way to force an adult to work or go to school or pay rent or do chores, and we also know that we could not in good conscious kick one of our children out to live on the street.  We can and we will (and we do), however, enforce consequences to help them become productive members of the family and society. 

 

We have decided that we are committed to providing the necessities of life to all of our offspring for as long as they need our help.  We have no desire, however, to fund luxuries for family members who are not contributing.  In our book, having a warm, safe place to sleep is a necessity...having a bedroom, or even a bed is a luxury.  Having adequate, healthy food is a necessity...having steak, sugar cereal, soda, or other preferred foods is a luxury.  Internet is a luxury, chauffeur service is a luxury, TV is a luxury, hot water is a luxury, etc.

 

Peter, 8 years old, has been living an entirely screen-free existence for the last month because he is not taking responsibility for his very age-appropriate chores.  We are not arguing, cajoling or bargaining, but we also aren't backing down even an inch...even if it takes another month or another year.  Life is full of unpleasant responsibilities, and that will probably always be a hard pill for Peter to swallow, but protecting him from the unpleasantness now certainly will not serve him well long term.

 

Wendy

[QueenCat]

The May 7th deadline is to choose an option. If he doesn't want to go to school he needs to start looking for a job. If he does choose school, that doesn't start until August. He wouldn't go to summer school. It's too difficult with such a short intense semester. He'd hate it and quit again.

 

If he doesn't start school until August, working over the summer should be a requirement. And no "I'm not into that" excuses." Coming from a mom of a young adult with Aspergers. If we give them excuses for everything, what happens when we are no longer "here?" And really, it IS in their best interest, as a person, to live on their own, long before they hit 35-40 years old.

[QueenCat]

Instead of telling him his internet will be cut off, could you tell him he will have to begin paying for internet access on May 7? That way he will have the motivation to find a job due to the additional expense and he will still be responsible for the access after he starts working. Remember, you can set the price you charge him. For example, you could have him pay the entire bill for internet, not just a portion of it. After all, you and your husband are paying the entire electric bill, for example. This becomes part of his regular household responsibility. This would be in addition to any rent you decide to charge him.

 

Normally, I would agree, but it sounds like Beth's son spends a lot of time online. They would lose control over taking it away if he were paying for it. 

[Night Elf]

Normally, I would agree, but it sounds like Beth's son spends a lot of time online. They would lose control over taking it away if he were paying for it. 

 

Exactly. He'd have no problem paying for it. He has a lot of money saved up. I'm not kidding when I say he can stay home and pay all these bills y'all are suggesting for at least a year, probably more depending on what he is actually paying.

[Carol in Cal.]

Exactly. He'd have no problem paying for it. He has a lot of money saved up. I'm not kidding when I say he can stay home and pay all these bills y'all are suggesting for at least a year, probably more depending on what he is actually paying.

I've been trying to figure out what bothers me about the scenario, and this post did it for me.

 

It is that in his mind I think charging him for things might take the pressure OFF instead of adding to it as you hope.  Because it reduces dealing with everyday life to just paying a bill, not to the need to be productive, to have a steady income stream, etc.  You're thinking of asserting a financial requirement as a form of aversion therapy, but there is nothing to indicate that he would have an aversion to this or that it would create the result that you want.

 

That's why I picture couching the requirements as actionable ones rather than financial ones.  Either he works on your home/garden/family business/whatever, or he goes to school, or he has a job.  All the time.  Because that's more like how real life is, and that's what you want to prepare him for.  

Edited March 18, 2018 by Carol in Cal.

[ktgrok]

I've been trying to figure out what bothers me about the scenario, and this post did it for me.

 

It is that in his mind I think charging him for things might take the pressure OFF instead of adding to it as you hope. Because it reduces dealing with everyday life to just paying a bill, not to the need to be productive, to have a steady income stream, etc. You're thinking of asserting a financial requirement as a form of aversion therapy, but there is nothing to indicate that he would have an aversion to this or that it would create the result that you want.

 

That's why I picture couching the requirements as actionable ones rather than financial ones. Either he works on your home/garden/family business/whatever, or he goes to school, or he has a job. All the time. Because that's more like how real life is, and that's what you want to prepare him for.

I agree. Making about productivity. Being a productive person. Being the kind of person you want him to be. The kind of person we should all strive to be. That means volunteer work with count in my book. And it might be a springboard to other things. And you can’t use the excuse that it doesn’t pan out for won’t be Goodnuf long-term. Because I don’t have to be long term.

[JFSinIL]

I am going to say one more thing, even if it is discounted.

 

I don't think it would be fair to say to your son, "Ok, you now will be paying $400/mo."  

 

I think it far more fair to say, "We feel you need to get a job or go to school.  If you are working or not working, you will start paying in October of this year.  You have 7 months to figure this out" or whatever.  And your previous "you need a job or school in 6 months" doesn't count unless you added the "and you will be paying rent at that time" in the past.  He needs some time to process this idea.

This.. I forgot to add in my post that I did give dd six months after high school graduation to come up with a plan or start paying rent, etc.

 

Also, if he does not want to try for a job you think he could do because he thinks he will "hate it", well, that is why he would be PAID to do it. If a job was fun, it would not be "work". I also agree he needs a heads up that internet is vanishing as of May 7th unless he becomes a man with a plan, a functioning member of society in some way. You are helping him get the skills and abilities to function in the world for the time when you are not there as back-up.

Edited March 18, 2018 by JFSinIL

[Anne]

Beth, you’ve gotten great advice here - I’m just going to send you a hug!!

 

I can only imagine how difficult this must be!

 

Anne

[Night Elf]

Beth, you’ve gotten great advice here - I’m just going to send you a hug!!

 

I can only imagine how difficult this must be!

 

Anne

 

Thank you Anne. It really is difficult. I feel physically beat up and my anxiety is sky high just thinking about all of this. I did get some great information and I can see where people think I am making excuses left and right but I'm doing the best I can. I know my son. I think we've been pretty good at pushing him past his comfort zone in the past. Not all of the time but in some circumstances. This is just going to have to be another of those situations. In my mind, I can hear the tone of his voice, see the slump in his shoulders, see the anguish on his face, and see him walking back to his room to think and maybe even cry. It's heart breaking. I can't even take an anxiety pill because I'm on the max dosage already. After dinner, I'm going to lay down with my weighted blanket and hot rice pack and see if I can calm myself down enough to have the talk with him. And then I don't know how I'll calm myself after that because I know I'll be in an even more agitated state. Maybe I'll ask DH to go get ice cream. This may be a night for a treat.

[TechWife]

Normally, I would agree, but it sounds like Beth's son spends a lot of time online. They would lose control over taking it away if he were paying for it. 

 

 

Exactly. He'd have no problem paying for it. He has a lot of money saved up. I'm not kidding when I say he can stay home and pay all these bills y'all are suggesting for at least a year, probably more depending on what he is actually paying.

 

 

I don't think it's ideal to control an adult's internet access unless you have set up an adult reason to do so. If you want internet, you pay for it. If you don't pay for it, you don't get access to it. Like I said, you can charge whatever you want to for it - not necessarily what you are charged for it. You can add a "service fee" or an "equipment fee" or an "access fee" or whatever, or you could just choose to mark the bill up 400%. 

 

The idea I have is really the "scaffolding" of adult responsibilities in this situation. I have an adult son w/ASD and we are taking the "scaffolding" approach to having him take financial responsibility. We don't know that he will ever be independent, so we have a four year plan, and then we will either have a "holding pattern" or we will add onto it if he has grown to the point where he may be able to live independently. The degree to which we are able to add on to the plan will be determined, in part, by his earning potential. Right now, it's not very high and he would never be able to live independently, but we will see if he matures. For those of you who think a "four year plan" for an adult is ridiculous, I'll just reiterate that my son has Asperger/Autism and he is on a different developmental schedule than an NT person. That is the nature of the disorder, not a result of parenting choices or low expectations. 

[ktgrok]

I wouldn't approach it as punishment at all. I'd approach it as "it isn't mentally healthy to sit around playing games all day. For anyone. Even if you were independently wealthy, that wouldn't be healthy for you physically, mentally, or emotionally. Plus, it is a waste of your talents and resources. The world needs you and you need the world." Use your own example of volunteering to show you put this into practice in your own life. Then discuss and brainstorm ways he can be productive with his time, versus just consuming. He can work for pay, gain a skill, or volunteer. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would scheduled two doctor appointments before any deadlines.

 

1.. sleep specialist

 

2. Regular doc to discuss anxiety meds for your son.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[freesia]

Thank you Anne. It really is difficult. I feel physically beat up and my anxiety is sky high just thinking about all of this. I did get some great information and I can see where people think I am making excuses left and right but I'm doing the best I can. I know my son. I think we've been pretty good at pushing him past his comfort zone in the past. Not all of the time but in some circumstances. This is just going to have to be another of those situations. In my mind, I can hear the tone of his voice, see the slump in his shoulders, see the anguish on his face, and see him walking back to his room to think and maybe even cry. It's heart breaking. I can't even take an anxiety pill because I'm on the max dosage already. After dinner, I'm going to lay down with my weighted blanket and hot rice pack and see if I can calm myself down enough to have the talk with him. And then I don't know how I'll calm myself after that because I know I'll be in an even more agitated state. Maybe I'll ask DH to go get ice cream. This may be a night for a treat.

 

Oh, Beth, I just want to hug you.  I have a ds with anxiety and his ratches mine up. It is so hard to be a non-anxious presence.  He's the one who said to me, in counseling, Mom, sometimes people are sad.  It's okay.  And it is okay that this makes him sad.  (It makes me sad that life is full of things I don't want to do,too). Don't own his problem and the emotions attached if you can help it.

 

I think TechMom is a great resource you can use.  I love her 4 year plan with scaffolding. 

 

You will, as a family, be able to figure this out.

 

I can't remember if you are in counseling right now.  A good counselor, preferably with family systems background and experience with helping families with kids with ASD, would be invaluable.  It never ceases to amaze me how counseling the mother has ripple effects through the family.  Primarily I see this would benefit you in being calm and non-reactive to his anxiety/sadness (and I say this as a fellow mom on this journey).

 

And, good job figuring out ways to calm yourself before you talk to him.  I can tell what a loving good mom you are and how much you want his to be happy and successful.  

 

 

[Night Elf]

I don't think it's ideal to control an adult's internet access unless you have set up an adult reason to do so. If you want internet, you pay for it. If you don't pay for it, you don't get access to it. Like I said, you can charge whatever you want to for it - not necessarily what you are charged for it. You can add a "service fee" or an "equipment fee" or an "access fee" or whatever, or you could just choose to mark the bill up 400%. 

 

The idea I have is really the "scaffolding" of adult responsibilities in this situation. I have an adult son w/ASD and we are taking the "scaffolding" approach to having him take financial responsibility. We don't know that he will ever be independent, so we have a four year plan, and then we will either have a "holding pattern" or we will add onto it if he has grown to the point where he may be able to live independently. The degree to which we are able to add on to the plan will be determined, in part, by his earning potential. Right now, it's not very high and he would never be able to live independently, but we will see if he matures. For those of you who think a "four year plan" for an adult is ridiculous, I'll just reiterate that my son has Asperger/Autism and he is on a different developmental schedule than an NT person. That is the nature of the disorder, not a result of parenting choices or low expectations. 

 

But is your son working yet? My ds is 21 and will be 22 this summer. He's shown us he can work so we believe he should be working. He just doesn't want to really. And he has so much money saved up that I'm sure he would have no problem paying what we ask if he could continue to stay home and do what he wants to do. How do you work a job into that 4-year scaffolding? Remember, my son does pay for some things. He has spent less than $400 in the 4 months he's been without a job. 

 

I'd love to know more about how you came up with the scaffolding plan if you can point me to specific resources. Or take it to PM if you like. I want to help my son but it's so hard to know when his difficulties are due to his Aspergers or when they're due to laziness. And for the person who said don't say lazy it's executive function disorder, I have seen no evidence of that. None of his mental health professionals have ever mentioned it either. He needed some hand-holding when he started high school classes because he hadn't been exposed to due dates and projects. He picked it all up quickly and had few problems with papers or projects. He knew how to set small goals for himself and to attain them. He also managed his college classes the same way with no help from me or DH. He was an excellent student. Doesn't that mean he doesn't have problems with executive functions?

[freesia]

I wouldn't approach it as punishment at all. I'd approach it as "it isn't mentally healthy to sit around playing games all day. For anyone. Even if you were independently wealthy, that wouldn't be healthy for you physically, mentally, or emotionally. Plus, it is a waste of your talents and resources. The world needs you and you need the world." Use your own example of volunteering to show you put this into practice in your own life. Then discuss and brainstorm ways he can be productive with his time, versus just consuming. He can work for pay, gain a skill, or volunteer. 

 

I love this way of framing it, Katie!