fairfarmhand Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) in June, my oldest daughter (19) flew to Alaska for a month long missions trip. This was the first time she was ever in an airport. She forgot that she had ninja stars in her wallet. They flagged on the xray machine, lots of people with guns escorted her, interviewed her, figured out it was a stupid mistake. They confiscated her ninja stars, released her, she got on her plane and we thought that was the end of it. She got a letter in the mail today that she's being fined for this. It's lile a $250 fine, but if she mails it back before a certain date, it'll drop down to $125. She has the option of going in for an in-person interview, or requesting a hearing. Has anyone else been through this or know anythign about the process? UPDATE: My daughter called TSA and left several messages. She got a call back about 3 days later. The summary is this: The lady she talked to said that TSA doesn't want the money. They want people to take security seriously. She told my daughter to write a letter telling what happened and pleading for mercy. My daughter asked them to waive the fine based upon her ignorance (never having been on a plane before) her repentant heart, her financial position (she faxed copies of her tax return to verify this), and what she was doing (going on a mission trip, and she had the mission trip director write a letter on her behalf) My dd got an email today saying that her fine was waived and her status is now "Warning status." which means that she needs to watch it in the next little bit when flying. Edited August 10, 2017 by fairfarmhand 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Wow, I have NEVER heard of that! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Have her check into this further. Something tells me that letter is not legitimate. I've NEVER heard of the TSA fining anyone. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) They definitely do fine people. You do not want to just assume it's a scam and ignore it. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/civil-enforcement Edited July 31, 2017 by Word Nerd 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Was she arrested? What kind of crime did they charge her with? I am assuming it was a Misdemeanor, but I am not an Attorney and have no clue about the possible ramifications of this or what it might do to her record, years from now. I don't have a clue about what Ninja Stars are, but apparently they are something that is prohibited, and her having them in an airport was illegal. A young Country Music star who has a CC permit forgot that he had a Handgun in his backpack (he'd been target shooting the day before) and he was detained in an airport in NC on the way to TN as I recall. They confiscated his gun and he will probably plead "Guilty" or "No Contest" or something. He knows he broke the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 A quick google search tells me this is a thing. I hate flying now. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Yeah, it's a thing. If it's not going to cost a fortune I would request an in person interview so they can see she's just a young girl who made an innocent error. I'm sure they had to fill out the paperwork, and it might help for her to say just what you said- that the interview at the airport convinced them it was just a case of forgetfulness. Usually it happens for people who forget they have a gun on them, but I have heard of it for knives and stuff. But ninja stars in a wallet- silly for them to make a case. Hope it all works out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 If she requests a hearing it might be wise for her to hire a criminal defense attorney to go with her to the hearing. Depending on the crime that might affect future employment opportunities in the future and should be taken seriously. Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 They definitely do fine people. You do not want to just assume it's a scam and ignore it. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/civil-enforcement Learn something new every day! And good point! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 They definitely do fine people. You do not want to just assume it's a scam and ignore it. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/civil-enforcement I had never heard of this (and have flown many, many times). Good to know. At least it was the minimum fine with the opportunity to make it even less. Not that you want to pay $125, but from that chart... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 If she requests a hearing it might be wise for her to hire a criminal defense attorney to go with her to the hearing. Depending on the crime that might affect future employment opportunities in the future and should be taken seriously. Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk It's my unprofessional opinion that ever stepping in any court or speaking to law enforcers of any kind for any reason without a lawyer is playing legal roulette. Always have a lawyer if at all possible. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Wouldn't hiring a lawyer and having a hearing cost a lot more than the fine? Especially if she pays it while it can be $125? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Wouldn't hiring a lawyer and having a hearing cost a lot more than the fine? Especially if she pays it while it can be $125? Not necessarily. Depending on the lawyer and situation it can be more affordable than people think. And if just paying it somehow gives her a record of some kind, it might be worth the extra expense. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Honestly? I suspect I'd pay the fine and be done with it. Dumb mistake, but it was a mistake on her part. It'll likely cost more for a legal case and even then she might lose as it'd be tough for her to claim innocence. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Wouldn't hiring a lawyer and having a hearing cost a lot more than the fine? Especially if she pays it while it can be $125? That's what they're banking on, that you'll say "Ugh, I definitely don't want to pay $250 when I could pay half that" and then you just sign away your right to a fair hearing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyLiberty5013 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 On the fine, does it give a statute (name and/or number) she violated? Neither DH nor I have heard about this before. WOW. And he is in airports all the time for work. Before I paid it, I would wonder what paying it means...if it is like a speeding ticket, paying it means accepting guilt, BUT a speeding ticket will not go on a job record (unless one is applying for some sort of work involving vehicles). Or, does paying it and accepting guilt, mean it goes on some sort of other record? Whatever you find out, I would keep in writing. AND, I would not feel comfortable talking to any low level TSA employee. And, ninja stars...that is a bit more than forgetting a teeny pocket knife or multi-tool so that is why they likely went crazy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) Honestly? I suspect I'd pay the fine and be done with it. Dumb mistake, but it was a mistake on her part. It'll likely cost more for a legal case and even then she might lose as it'd be tough for her to claim innocence.She does not have to claim innocence to request mercy or know her rights and options. Eta: And in this crazy day and age, youthful dumb mistakes can have far reaching consequences they never would have had 20 years ago. Edited August 1, 2017 by Murphy101 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Go look in your pm's. I think we know a mutual lawyer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 She does not have to claim innocence to request mercy or know her rights and options. Eta: And in this crazy day and age, youthful dumb mistakes can have far reaching consequences they never would have had 20 years ago. Eh, I'm still of the mindset that if I (or my kids) do something wrong and there's a fine with it, we pay it rather than contesting it. I have no problem admitting when I've made a mistake. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) Eh, I'm still of the mindset that if I (or my kids) do something wrong and there's a fine with it, we pay it rather than contesting it. I have no problem admitting when I've made a mistake.Me too, usually. BUT, and this is big - does she have some kind of record if she just pays the fine? It's not always about the money - what are the life-long ramifications of this? Will she be on some kind of travel watch list from this day forward? She's only 19 - she's got a long life ahead of her for something like this to hang over her head. In this case, I would seek legal counsel. Edited August 1, 2017 by fraidycat 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) According to the website linked above, it is a civil penalty not a criminal pan alt you although, so it will not show up on a criminal background check. It might show up on a deep background check or public record search. From the FAQ section, it sounds DS like she could request a informal hearing and maybe ask that the fine be reduced or possibly eliminated. It sounds like just getting caught with the forbidden object will put her on a "list" for a while and make her not elegible for tsa pre-check. So that damage is already done. . Edited August 1, 2017 by City Mouse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I don't know what a Ninja Star is but if it is prohibited because it can be used as a weapon that might for example be an issue if she should ever apply for a Security Clearance. The Country Music star who had a CC permit and was caught with a gun in his backpack recently also violated the CC permit and he is guilty of the 2 violations but he may be in a better situation than the DD because he is normally permitted to carry a concealed gun. Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Not to nitpick, Lanny, but in the time it took to post that you don't know what they are - twice - you could've looked up "ninja star". That's another term for shuriken - those things that ninjas in movies throw at people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 If she will have a record, that could affect employment and/or clearances. I n that case it's definitely worth having an attorney. If the result is similar to a basic speeding ticket then I'd pay the fine and move on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Wouldn't hiring a lawyer and having a hearing cost a lot more than the fine? Especially if she pays it while it can be $125? It can affect what exactly goes on her record. We have a friend when he was young and dumb was picked up - not arrested -because his name is the same as their suspects. After he was released, he was sent paperwork to get it off his record. He threw it away. Years later, he couldn't go to Canada because it comes up on a search. I think they finally straightened it out, with much hassle that could have been avoided if taken care of when it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 It can affect what exactly goes on her record. We have a friend when he was young and dumb was picked up - not arrested -because his name is the same as their suspects. After he was released, he was sent paperwork to get it off his record. He threw it away. Years later, he couldn't go to Canada because it comes up on a search. I think they finally straightened it out, with much hassle that could have been avoided if taken care of when it happened. I would fight it for this reason. Yes, it might be more expensive, but if she finds herself unable to fly because she's on some super secret list, she'll likely end up fighting it anyways. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) I've never heard of this either! One of my sons had two pocket knives on him that were taken by the TSA - (he forgot all about them) - and nothing ever happened after that. I can't believe they would fine her for an honest mistake. Wish it could go the other way - my dd and I were both subject to pretty intensive searches the last time we flew. For her, it was the agent going through all of her personal stuff in her carry-on. For me, let's just say that the TSA agent got very intimate with me... Neither of us had anything on/with us. Oh, dd also had bandages on her hands and was given a hard time by one agent about the bandages. ETA: I would challenge the fine on principle. It just isn't right to do that. Edited August 1, 2017 by Erica H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Because the fining is very arbitrary, I have no problem requesting mercy of the court or seeking a lawyer. It's no different than speeding. It's completely up to the enforcer whether you get pulled over, get a ticket, get a warning, get additional tickets for headlights or whatever. I see nothing wrong ever with having an attorney make sure you know your options and represent you to be on the favorable end of that arbitrary consequence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I would want to know if it affected her for flying in the future. To me it's not just about the cost, but the hassle. I would probably just pay it and be done. Why did she have ninja stars? lol I know she forgot they were there, but is this a martial arts thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Because the fining is very arbitrary, I have no problem requesting mercy of the court or seeking a lawyer. It's no different than speeding. It's completely up to the enforcer whether you get pulled over, get a ticket, get a warning, get additional tickets for headlights or whatever. I see nothing wrong ever with having an attorney make sure you know your options and represent you to be on the favorable end of that arbitrary consequence. But that's before you receive the fine. She already received it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 But that's before you receive the fine. She already received it.You can still go to court after you've gotten a ticket. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 You can still go to court after you've gotten a ticket. Of course but around here the cops pretty much always win so it's a waste of time. And if you go to court then you might be going to traffic school or something. At that point it's way more involved than at the point of the initial stop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 It's just a civil fine, no crime. I wouldn't be worried about it coming back to bite her unless you research and find clear evidence that this happens. Depending on how close and convenient your airport is for an in-person interview, and how pressed for money dd is, I would consider just paying it (especially if an unsuccessful interview would lead to paying the higher fine due to timing, etc). If it's like anything else that happens at the airport, an interview might consume an afternoon or worse, and is likely to be rather stressful. The informal interview is all I would consider; I would not at all consider requesting a formal hearing because that causes TSA to lodge a formal complaint, which sounds like it might spiral out of control. I would also guess that nixes your chance of paying the lower fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 This fine should not appear on a background check. Civil fines are separate and distinct from criminal penalties as they are not handled through the criminal court system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I would fight it for this reason. Yes, it might be more expensive, but if she finds herself unable to fly because she's on some super secret list, she'll likely end up fighting it anyways. If someone is put on the No Fly list, like James Rosen of Fox News Channel was, unless they know people in high places, they will not be able to verify that they are on the list, or, why they are on the list. If one is put on the list, I believe it is very difficult to get off the list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I imagine they treated it differently than a pocketknife because a pocketknife is often (primarily, I'd say) used as a non-weapon and I can't imagine what they thought the ninja stars would be for other than a weapon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 UPDATE in the OP 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Great update! Make sure she keeps that email......... pretty much forever! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Thanks for the update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Good update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Thank you for the update -- I'm so glad everything worked out! :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Great update! Make sure she keeps that email......... pretty much forever!Yes. Print several copies and keep one copy in your Safe Deposit Box with other critical papers. Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Great update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 What a relief for her! (And you!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Great update! Make sure she keeps that email......... pretty much forever! And the letter she wrote to go with it. She might want to carry these documents with her the next few times she travels, just to be on the safe side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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