Work Related Vent

[Eliz]

I'm so frustrating with my job, but have to stay until I can find something else.  I was sick yesterday with a stomach virus.  Couldn't go to work.  I don't have any benefits including sick time.  If I'm sick, I don't get paid.  In December, I missed one day of work, then yesterday.  Thankfully, I'm not scheduled for today.  When I texted my boss (her preferred contact method), she told me to find someone to work for me.  Well, no one I called and texted responded to me.  My boss told me I had to work anyway.  She's really angry with me now because I told her that I couldn't.   Really, how do you work when you're throwing up in the bathroom frequently.  I was crying last night about her attitude.  I know we're busy at work, but people do get sick.  Anyway, I would appreciate prayers for a better job and thoughts about this situation.  She was transfered / promoted a few months ago into this position.  It's really tough to keep a good attitude!

[elegantlion]

:grouphug:  :grouphug: I'm sorry, bosses who don't understand illness are the worst. What are you supposed to do, go in and just spend all day in the bathroom? 

 

[Rebel Yell]

I've been there.  I worked in a salon and had no sick days and no health insurance.  In order to take a sick day I had to get a doctor's note, so it cost me $75 for the office visit and I lost about $75 in pay/tips, so every sick day cost me $150 or double what I would have made working. And for me, if I had a cold one day home would usually be enough, but if I pushed through and worked I ended up with bronchitis which ended up losing me a week's work plus out-of-pocket medical expenses.

 

Once I went to work very sick- so sick that my eye was swollen shut. My first customer was a nurse who took one look at me and asked what I was doing working so closely with the public- when I explained the above, she chewed out my employer.

 

I still never had paid sick time, but at least I never needed a doctors note again.

 

And if you do go into work and your boss happens to catch your germs, I would not cry too hard for her.  Some people need to learn the hard way.

 

And I hope you feel better, and find a better job soon.

[SKL]

I hope your boss wakes up to reality soon.  When you find a better position and leave, consider telling her boss about this incident.

[creekland]

If what I had were contagious, it would be difficult for me to not head in and be sure I spent a bit of time around her considering her "concerns."

 

Try not to let her attitude get to you and channel it more into anger if it does.  She's wrong.  You're right.  I don't like having employees doing things for me when they're sick - esp puking sick.  I don't need that imported to my family.  I doubt anyone wants it TBH.  When you're really sick, STAY HOME.

 

It'd be totally different if you were "sick" with "spring fever" and left them on the hook when they were busy.  That's not the case, but it might be what she's thinking.

[TammyS]

:grouphug:

 

That's rotten. 

 

If you can stand it, go to work and cough all over her.  Puke in her trash can if you can manage it.

[Carrie12345]

:grouphug:

It's one of those things I've never been able to wrap my head around.

 

My dds were recently sick (coughing, sneezing, gross) for a week.  The younger boys caught it for the next week.  They've all missed a whole bunch of activities b/c who would want me to bring my icky kids around theirs?!?  I just can't imagine working that around unreasonable expectations from schools or obnoxious employers.  It isn't right.

[Valley Girl]

Your boss is an idiot.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

[Eliz]

If what I had were contagious, it would be difficult for me to not head in and be sure I spent a bit of time around her considering her "concerns."

 

Try not to let her attitude get to you and channel it more into anger if it does.  She's wrong.  You're right.  I don't like having employees doing things for me when they're sick - esp puking sick.  I don't need that imported to my family.  I doubt anyone wants it TBH.  When you're really sick, STAY HOME.

 

It'd be totally different if you were "sick" with "spring fever" and left them on the hook when they were busy.  That's not the case, but it might be what she's thinking.

She may be thinking spring fever, but she knows I work because I need the money.  Plus, I don't have sick time pay or any benefits for that matter.  It bits financially when I can't work.  The most I've ever called in sick during a year was 3 times.  That was 2 or 3 years ago when I seemed to get everything that was going around.  In 2015, I was sick once for one day, in December.  Unfortunately, this year I've already been sick once, yesterday.  If I need a day off, I switch with a co-worker. 

[PeachyDoodle]

Your boss is an idiot. I've worked for them too. I know what you're going through.

 

Just remember that everything always looks twice as bad when you're not feeling well. Try not to dwell on it too much right now. When you're well again, you can get back to looking for a better situation.

 

Hugs and prayers for you.

[Eliz]

I've been there.  I worked in a salon and had no sick days and no health insurance.  In order to take a sick day I had to get a doctor's note, so it cost me $75 for the office visit and I lost about $75 in pay/tips, so every sick day cost me $150 or double what I would have made working. And for me, if I had a cold one day home would usually be enough, but if I pushed through and worked I ended up with bronchitis which ended up losing me a week's work plus out-of-pocket medical expenses.

 

Once I went to work very sick- so sick that my eye was swollen shut. My first customer was a nurse who took one look at me and asked what I was doing working so closely with the public- when I explained the above, she chewed out my employer.

 

I still never had paid sick time, but at least I never needed a doctors note again.

 

And if you do go into work and your boss happens to catch your germs, I would not cry too hard for her.  Some people need to learn the hard way.

 

And I hope you feel better, and find a better job soon.

Oh my, and I thought my boss was bad.  At least, she doesn't require a doctor's note.  Your boss was just mean-spirited!  I hope you either don't have to work a paid job now or have a much better position!

[Eliz]

At least today I'm up to eating crackers and drinking some ginger ale.  Thankfully, I'm not scheduled to work today because I'm not sure I could.  My poor abdominal muscles are so sore.  There have to be better jobs out there.  I'm thinking of substitute teaching next year, but that's next year.  I'm feeling vulnerable and my feelings are raw today.  Thanks all of you for your good wishes.

[StephanieZ]

I'm so frustrating with my job, but have to stay until I can find something else.  I was sick yesterday with a stomach virus.  Couldn't go to work.  I don't have any benefits including sick time.  If I'm sick, I don't get paid.  In December, I missed one day of work, then yesterday.  Thankfully, I'm not scheduled for today.  When I texted my boss (her preferred contact method), she told me to find someone to work for me.  Well, no one I called and texted responded to me.  My boss told me I had to work anyway.  She's really angry with me now because I told her that I couldn't.   Really, how do you work when you're throwing up in the bathroom frequently.  I was crying last night about her attitude.  I know we're busy at work, but people do get sick.  Anyway, I would appreciate prayers for a better job and thoughts about this situation.  She was transfered / promoted a few months ago into this position.  It's really tough to keep a good attitude!

 

My guess is that your boss doesn't really believe/trust that you are sick when you call off. It's probably not personal towards you, but just based on a bigger problem in the team and/or just because she doesn't know you yet. I am guessing this since she is relatively new to her position, so I'm assuming she doesn't know you well.

 

In our small business, we similarly ask staff to find coverage if they are able to do so. But, if they let us know that they can't get coverage (either they tried and failed or they are too sick to make the contacts), then we handle it. 

 

That said, we are also entitled to fire people who can't make their shifts, regardless of the reason. We aren't a sort of business that can easily absorb frequent call offs. If we have someone calling off sick frequently (say more than a few times a year, except in a time-limited situation such as a particularly eventful pregnancy or injury, etc. that we can expect will end and not be a long term issue), we can't have them on staff, because it is too hard on the rest of the team as well as our clients and patients. We make this clear at interviews and at hiring, in hope that most folks who are prone to frequent call offs will chose not to accept a job with us.

 

One thing, though, if someone shows up for work and is puking or similar, we send them home. Immediately. We'd prefer they call off, but if they show up, we send them home. They are no good to us, and we don't want the illness to spread, either. Similarly, if they're so ill they are functioning poorly, we'll send them home. 

 

Now, just like frequent call offs, frequent show-up-sicks won't last long, either, because it is just too hard on the hospital. 

 

So, IMHO, if I were you, I'd suggest doing what you did (trying to get coverage, trying to call off), but if you can't get coverage, and your boss insists you need to come, then go. If they see you there, trying, but sick, they'll hopefully send you home AND believe you next time you try to call off. 

 

In general, IME, businesses are within their rights to fire you for not showing up as scheduled, regardless of the reason you are not showing up. There are a few exceptions (documented legal disability, etc.) but very few. Even a blizzard isn't a legal excuse not to show up . . . BUT, most employers are reasonable and won't fire you for a "good excuse" that they believe. Trick is to make sure they believe you. 

 

When we've had staff that had overly frequent call offs for "sick" but were otherwise good employees, we've given them written warnings about their job being in jeopardy and required/requested a doctor note for any future call offs in the next 6 months (or similar time frame). Usually, these staff fire themselves because they aren't really "sick" every other Monday -- just hung over or dealing with interpersonal drama . . . 

 

I'd suggest asking your boss for a quick meeting when you get back to work, and express your apologies that you couldn't find coverage and were too sick puking to come in when you couldn't get coverage. Express that you're sorry about the rest of the team being short staffed. 

 

Then, if you get sick in the next 3-6 months and are going to need to call off, definitely go get a DR note even if they haven't asked for it, and do your very best to get coverage . . .

 

((((hugs)))) and I hope you feel better!

[Eliz]

My guess is that your boss doesn't really believe/trust that you are sick when you call off. It's probably not personal towards you, but just based on a bigger problem in the team and/or just because she doesn't know you yet. I am guessing this since she is relatively new to her position, so I'm assuming she doesn't know you well.

 

In our small business, we similarly ask staff to find coverage if they are able to do so. But, if they let us know that they can't get coverage (either they tried and failed or they are too sick to make the contacts), then we handle it. 

 

That said, we are also entitled to fire people who can't make their shifts, regardless of the reason. We aren't a sort of business that can easily absorb frequent call offs. If we have someone calling off sick frequently (say more than a few times a year, except in a time-limited situation such as a particularly eventful pregnancy or injury, etc. that we can expect will end and not be a long term issue), we can't have them on staff, because it is too hard on the rest of the team as well as our clients and patients. We make this clear at interviews and at hiring, in hope that most folks who are prone to frequent call offs will chose not to accept a job with us.

 

One thing, though, if someone shows up for work and is puking or similar, we send them home. Immediately. We'd prefer they call off, but if they show up, we send them home. They are no good to us, and we don't want the illness to spread, either. Similarly, if they're so ill they are functioning poorly, we'll send them home. 

 

Now, just like frequent call offs, frequent show-up-sicks won't last long, either, because it is just too hard on the

hospital. 

 

So, IMHO, if I were you, I'd suggest doing what you did (trying to get coverage, trying to call off), but if you can't get coverage, and your boss insists you need to come, then go. If they see you there, trying, but sick, they'll hopefully send you home AND believe you next time you try to call off. 

 

In general, IME, businesses are within their rights to fire you for not showing up as scheduled, regardless of the reason you are not showing up. There are a few exceptions (documented legal disability, etc.) but very few. Even a blizzard isn't a legal excuse not to show up . . . BUT, most employers are reasonable and won't fire you for a "good excuse" that they believe. Trick is to make sure they believe you. 

 

When we've had staff that had overly frequent call offs for "sick" but were otherwise good employees, we've given them written warnings about their job being in jeopardy and required/requested a doctor note for any future call offs in the next 6 months (or similar time frame). Usually, these staff fire themselves because they aren't really "sick" every other Monday -- just hung over or dealing with interpersonal drama . . . 

 

I'd suggest asking your boss for a quick meeting when you get back to work, and express your apologies that you couldn't find coverage and were too sick puking to come in when you couldn't get coverage. Express that you're sorry about the rest of the team being short staffed. 

 

Then, if you get sick in the next 3-6 months and are going to need to call off, definitely go get a DR note even if they haven't asked for it, and do your very best to get coverage . . .

 

((((hugs)))) and I hope you feel better!

Stephanie,  I'm sure you are a great employer, but I really did not need to be reminded today that I could get fired.  I'm a lower income single mom who is working very hard to support herself and her family without help!  I'll try to read your post again when I feel better.

 

[scholastica]

I would have walked in and thrown up on her.

[Harriet Vane]

My guess is that your boss doesn't really believe/trust that you are sick when you call off. It's probably not personal towards you, but just based on a bigger problem in the team and/or just because she doesn't know you yet. I am guessing this since she is relatively new to her position, so I'm assuming she doesn't know you well.

 

In our small business, we similarly ask staff to find coverage if they are able to do so. But, if they let us know that they can't get coverage (either they tried and failed or they are too sick to make the contacts), then we handle it. 

 

That said, we are also entitled to fire people who can't make their shifts, regardless of the reason. We aren't a sort of business that can easily absorb frequent call offs. If we have someone calling off sick frequently (say more than a few times a year, except in a time-limited situation such as a particularly eventful pregnancy or injury, etc. that we can expect will end and not be a long term issue), we can't have them on staff, because it is too hard on the rest of the team as well as our clients and patients. We make this clear at interviews and at hiring, in hope that most folks who are prone to frequent call offs will chose not to accept a job with us.

 

One thing, though, if someone shows up for work and is puking or similar, we send them home. Immediately. We'd prefer they call off, but if they show up, we send them home. They are no good to us, and we don't want the illness to spread, either. Similarly, if they're so ill they are functioning poorly, we'll send them home. 

 

Now, just like frequent call offs, frequent show-up-sicks won't last long, either, because it is just too hard on the hospital. 

 

So, IMHO, if I were you, I'd suggest doing what you did (trying to get coverage, trying to call off), but if you can't get coverage, and your boss insists you need to come, then go. If they see you there, trying, but sick, they'll hopefully send you home AND believe you next time you try to call off. 

 

In general, IME, businesses are within their rights to fire you for not showing up as scheduled, regardless of the reason you are not showing up. There are a few exceptions (documented legal disability, etc.) but very few. Even a blizzard isn't a legal excuse not to show up . . . BUT, most employers are reasonable and won't fire you for a "good excuse" that they believe. Trick is to make sure they believe you. 

 

When we've had staff that had overly frequent call offs for "sick" but were otherwise good employees, we've given them written warnings about their job being in jeopardy and required/requested a doctor note for any future call offs in the next 6 months (or similar time frame). Usually, these staff fire themselves because they aren't really "sick" every other Monday -- just hung over or dealing with interpersonal drama . . . 

 

I'd suggest asking your boss for a quick meeting when you get back to work, and express your apologies that you couldn't find coverage and were too sick puking to come in when you couldn't get coverage. Express that you're sorry about the rest of the team being short staffed. 

 

Then, if you get sick in the next 3-6 months and are going to need to call off, definitely go get a DR note even if they haven't asked for it, and do your very best to get coverage . . .

 

((((hugs)))) and I hope you feel better!

 

While I think you mean well with your post, it comes across as harsh.

 

The original poster has taken hardly any sick days. If her last sick day was in December, it has been four months without a sick day. Her employer has records. They have the resources they need to know that this is an honest employee. 

 

And your assertion that a business is within their rights to fire you regardless of the reason is unethical. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Harriet Vane

[QueenCat]

Stephanie,  I'm sure you are a great employer, but I really did not need to be reminded today that I could get fired.  I'm a lower income single mom who is working very hard to support herself and her family without help!  I'll try to read your post again when I feel better.

 

Stephanie was just giving you the employer's perspective. She really did do it in a kind way. Employers are so used to employees pretending to be sick or pretending to be sicker than they really are that it can really be difficult for them.

[Bluegoat]

I have serious issues with this idea that it is ok for a business to fire people who get sick.  I think it is shocking.  People get sick, almost everyone, any f us.  Maybe we were lucky in the past, it could change next week and we could get a cold.  It is part of being human.

 

You might as well say it is ok to fire people who need to pee every few hours.

 

It would be quite illegal to do that here.  Businesses have to account for things like people who pee, get pregnant, or come down with the flu.

[QueenCat]

I have serious issues with this idea that it is ok for a business to fire people who get sick.  I think it is shocking.  People get sick, almost everyone, any f us.  Maybe we were lucky in the past, it could change next week and we could get a cold.  It is part of being human.

 

You might as well say it is ok to fire people who need to pee every few hours.

 

It would be quite illegal to do that here.  Businesses have to account for things like people who pee, get pregnant, or come down with the flu.

 

I didn't get the impression that Stephanie was suggesting firing someone for being sick once in a while but rather if their absences became a problem in necessary work getting done.

[Bluegoat]

I didn't get the impression that Stephanie was suggesting firing someone for being sick once in a while but rather if their absences became a problem in necessary work getting done.

 

But when does that happen?  Arguably it could be missing a few times a year, even once - that is "work not getting done."  To me it sounds like not hiring enough people to do the work. is the problem.

 

Our laws protect people from being dismissed for up to 17 weeks of illness.  After that they are looking at short or long term disability and can apply for benefits.

 

I cannot imagine living with that kind of stress and I can't see how it is good for the economy to have that kind of instability in employment.

[QueenCat]

But when does that happen?  Arguably it could be missing a few times a year, even once - that is "work not getting done."  To me it sounds like not hiring enough people to do the work. is the problem.

 

Our laws protect people from being dismissed for up to 17 weeks of illness.  After that they are looking at short or long term disability and can apply for benefits.

 

I cannot imagine living with that kind of stress and I can't see how it is good for the economy to have that kind of instability in employment.

 

I would imagine it's a bigger problem for smaller businesses that find themselves in a catch-22...... can't really afford to hire more people and are in a bad situation if someone is out too often. Bigger companies do tend to have more short and long disability options. Dh has always had the options of sick time, long and short term disability. I, on the other hand, have always had jobs where I was simply  not paid if I was not there. No sick time or anything but I don't expect that in part-time jobs, even professional ones. Thankfully, my money was extra savings money and not anything we needed to live on.

[Katy]

I once had a job like that.  I had the stomach flu, went directly to my boss's desk and vomited in her trashcan.

 

She never denied me a sick day again.

 

 

ETA:  this was not a situation where my absence was a problem for anybody.  The paperwork could wait another day.  She was just being a jerk.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Katy

[zoobie]

Sounds like your manager doesn't enjoy managing. Sure, it is a pain when you have to scramble to cover a shift (or do things yourself that you'd otherwise delegate), but that's your job when you're managing employees. People get sick. People fake being sick. Treating everyone like a faker because you don't want to do your job only makes for disgruntled employees. 

 

I went in to a job I had with a manager like that and had to stop waiting on a customer to go puke in a trash can. Strangely enough, the customer left and didn't buy anything. Huh. So I'm of the go in and puke like it's your job mindset. ;)

 

Hope you get a better job ASAP and the nasty virus passes.

[saw]

I've had a very unpleasant boss for the last year and a half. I've been looking for a new job for just over a year. It's been very discouraging and there were times when I didn't think I'd ever get out of my situation, but ... I got a job offer yesterday and gave notice today. I really really really hope you too will escape your boss. I'm sure that something good will come along, stay strong!

[Katy]

The Tulsa Chipotle was shut down for weeks because an employee went into work with the stomach flu.  It turned out to be norovirus, and spread to customers.  If you work with customers and you go in anyway, the health department could shut you down.

[StephanieZ]

But when does that happen?  Arguably it could be missing a few times a year, even once - that is "work not getting done."  To me it sounds like not hiring enough people to do the work. is the problem.

 

Our laws protect people from being dismissed for up to 17 weeks of illness.  After that they are looking at short or long term disability and can apply for benefits.

 

I cannot imagine living with that kind of stress and I can't see how it is good for the economy to have that kind of instability in employment.

 

Our business could not survive if folks took many weeks worth of days off each year without advance planning/notice. If we had to add a person each shift, that means we'd increase our staffing cost substantially, likely resulting in us having to reduce wages/benefits across the board. 

 

We can and happily do work with staff who have needs for time off that we can plan for . . . My head receptionist's baby turned 7 months today, and we let her set her own schedule for coming back at whatever amount she wanted  . . . Her desires changed over the months (like I thought they would --her first baby) . . . and instead of coming back FT at 12 weeks, she has decided to stay PT . . .  and I've encouraged her every step of the way since she first told us she was pregnant. Family first; work can be worked out. 

 

What we can't work around is unpredictable call-offs. 

 

If you are the size of Walmart, sure, you can have extra staff on hand. . .  But, as a small vet hospital who is fully staffed at 1 dr + 4-5 support staff (with non-overlapping duties and not all interchangeable). . . adding spare staff is not only expensive but really messes up the work flow. What happens if someone calls off without a sub is that the remaining team members are slammed and stressed when someone calls off without getting another replacement team member to cover. There is only so much we can do to slow work flow if the day's surgeries and appointments are already fully booked when someone no-shows. If we know ahead of time that we'll be short, we can (and do) reduce the case load for the day, but if it's the last minute, we have little we can do to slow the case load. 

 

We have great staff. They don't call off a lot. We bundle all their paid time off (much more than our competitors) so that those who don't get sick can take more vacations. . .  Works well for everyone. Our staff get paid time off from day 1, starting at 10 days the first year, ramping up each years, and our staff (2 of them) who've been there 10 years get 5 weeks paid off . . . we give extra paid time for maternity and paternity leave . . . and we've never said no to a good employee who wanted unpaid leave . . . we encourage and facilitate lengthy maternity leaves, too. Our staff love us. One of the reasons they love working at our business is because we make sure their team mates are as responsible and excellent as they are . . . In fact, our staff does all the hiring process until a final interview before hiring with my husband (the owner/vet)  . . . and believe me, our staff is vigilant to make sure they hire people who are not prone to calling off a lot, because it is them, the staff, who pay the price when someone is off. 

 

One of the reasons we are less able to absorb call-offs is because unlike most small business vets, we staff with all FT'ers except for students/etc who need/want PT. When we bought the hospital, it was mostly minimum wage college students staffing the practice. We transitioned to FT staff who get benefits, stay for years, and are paid fairly . . . We are committed to being a great employer. I think the longevity of our staff is a testament to our success in doing that. If we had all those PT'ers not getting the hours they want, we'd have a pool of willing availablle subs .. . . but with much fewer staff, nearly all FT (or otherwise in school during the hours they aren't working), there aren't many folks to ask to cover a shift. . .  It's just not easy.

 

We have X # of hours of shifts available each week, so if we over-hire, WE are fine, but then our staff ends up not getting the hours they'd like. Our team chooses to work the way we do. I think it's a pretty good deal. We always get staff input on deciding how heavily to staff, and our staff is in charge of the scheduling, too, so they are in control of their destiny. 

 

I intended to be helpful with my post(s), trying to suggest some ideas that could help the OP resolve her problem and avoid future problems. I understand that someone;s job is vital to them, and I intended to offer some perspective from the employer that could help her understand and "work" the system to her benefit. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

There isn't much to work when a boss/manager/business owner is being a monkey butt about something.

 

And yes, in at will work states an employee can be fired for any reason, or even no reason. Having the legal right to do something doesn't mean one isn't a monkey butt for exercising that right.

[Tita Gidge]

I really relate, OP, and hope you're able to soon find an employer that prioritizes productivity over presence.

 

I'm retired now, but my job required regular travel.  Going in to work "sick" meant more than just a work day, it was a multi-hour flying commute and staying in a hotel far from my creature comforts.  Not only was I in a position to spread my virus to co-workers, but also to the traveling public, airline and hotel employees, and CLIENTS! 

 

The irony is that my job requirements often landed us with irregular sleep patterns and eating habits due to transcontinental and international travel. These are things known to lessen one's immunity to begin with, they sure weren't going to help someone recover from a minor virus.  And yet we were "allowed" only 6 sick days per year.  Given that one business trip ran 3-4 days at the shortest, this meant we could call in sick once per year.  To reduce travel, many of us backed up our trips so that we'd travel two weeks, then be home two weeks; if we had done this and had to call in sick, we'd get put on probation for 12 months for exceeding our sick days.  They could fire us at any time if we were on probation. It was so stressful.

 

I'm hoping you recover quickly and can move on to another job soon.  :grouphug:

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

Many reasonable people need a reminder that "Hey I don't call in sick. EVER unless I am REALLY sick."

 

They probably often deal with doofuses that are always calling in for no real good reason.

 

And then again, some bosses are just jerks.

[kitten18]

Are you working tomorrow? Maybe you can go in and lick her phone.

[TechWife]

Our business could not survive if folks took many weeks worth of days off each year without advance planning/notice. If we had to add a person each shift, that means we'd increase our staffing cost substantially, likely resulting in us having to reduce wages/benefits across the board.

 

We can and happily do work with staff who have needs for time off that we can plan for . . . My head receptionist's baby turned 7 months today, and we let her set her own schedule for coming back at whatever amount she wanted . . . Her desires changed over the months (like I thought they would --her first baby) . . . and instead of coming back FT at 12 weeks, she has decided to stay PT . . . and I've encouraged her every step of the way since she first told us she

What we can't work around is unpredictable call-offs.

 

If you are the size of Walmart, sure, you can have extra staff on hand. . . But, as a small vet hospital who is fully staffed at 1 dr + 4-5 support staff (with non-overlapping duties and not all interchangeable). . . adding spare staff is not only expensive but really messes up the work flow. What happens if someone calls off without a sub is that the remaining team members are slammed and stressed when someone calls off without getting another replacement team member to cover. There is only so much we can do to slow work flow if the day's surgeries and appointments are already fully booked when someone no-shows. If we know ahead of time that we'll be short, we can (and do) reduce the case load for the day, but if it's the last minute, we have little we can do to slow the case load.

 

We have great staff. They don't call off a lot. We bundle all their paid time off (much more than our competitors) so that those who don't get sick can take more vacations. . . Works well for everyone. Our staff get paid time off from day 1, starting at 10 days the first year, ramping up each years, and our staff (2 of them) who've been there 10 years get 5 weeks paid off . . . we give extra paid time for maternity and paternity leave . . . and we've never said no to a good employee who wanted unpaid leave . . . we encourage and facilitate lengthy maternity leaves, too. Our staff love us. One of the reasons they love working at our business is because we make sure their team mates are as responsible and excellent as they are . . . In fact, our staff does all the hiring process until a final interview before hiring with my husband (the owner/vet) . . . and believe me, our staff is vigilant to make sure they hire people who are not prone to calling off a lot, because it is them, the staff, who pay the price when someone is off.

 

One of the reasons we are less able to absorb call-offs is because unlike most small business vets, we staff with all FT'ers except for students/etc who need/want PT. When we bought the hospital, it was mostly minimum wage college students staffing the practice. We transitioned to FT staff who get benefits, stay for years, and are paid fairly . . . We are committed to being a great employer. I think the longevity of our staff is a testament to our success in doing that. If we had all those PT'ers not getting the hours they want, we'd have a pool of willing availablle subs .. . . but with much fewer staff, nearly all FT (or otherwise in school during the hours they aren't working), there aren't many folks to ask to cover a shift. . . It's just not easy.

 

We have X # of hours of shifts available each week, so if we over-hire, WE are fine, but then our staff ends up not getting the hours they'd like. Our team chooses to work the way we do. I think it's a pretty good deal. We always get staff input on deciding how heavily to staff, and our staff is in charge of the scheduling, too, so they are in control of their destiny.

 

I intended to be helpful with my post(s), trying to suggest some ideas that could help the OP resolve her problem and avoid future problems. I understand that someone;s job is vital to them, and I intended to offer some perspective from the employer that could help her understand and "work" the system to her benefit.

Honestly, it seems like you need to develop a supplemental pool. How in the world would you survive a flu epidemic? I've never understood employers who require their employees to find a sub for their shift. Trading shifts, within reason, makes sense, but to place the burden of staffing on the employee instead of the employer seems unfair. The employee isn't responsible for the business, after all. I know a lot of different companies do this, it that doesn't make it right or fair.

[Ravin]

This thread makes me glad my boss's office is three hours from mine and that we are seldom checked up on. If I call in sick, that's that.

[kroe1]

Prayers for you. I know it is hard. I have a job, too, that I cannot miss without finding a replacement. Once, I went to work with an IV pole hanging out of my arm. Crazy.

[HSmomof2]

Stephanie, I'm sure you are a great employer, but I really did not need to be reminded today that I could get fired. I'm a lower income single mom who is working very hard to support herself and her family without help! I'll try to read your post again when I feel better.

Sure doesn't sound like a great employer at all. Certainly not someone I'd sign on with...that's not how to treat people, and definitely not a way to get good, hardworking, long-term employees.

 

Nevertheless, I hope you feel better and are able to find a better work situation very soon. I've worked for a few unreasonable bosses over the years and know how terribly stressful it can be.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Bethany Grace

[MedicMom]

When I first got married, we lived in a crappy apartment that turned out to have a serious black mold problem. I became very ill after just being in the apartment and wound up hospitalized several times. In a six week period, I took thirteen days off of work, all accompanied by doctor's notes that I was hospitalized and could not come to work.

I was fired for excessive absences. And I live in a right to work state, and they were perfectly within the law to do so.

[happi duck]

Ugh.

 

This thread scares the hell out of me for my kids.

 

Given my personality, finding a replacement while I was sick enough to not work would completely put me over the edge. I would *seem* totally at ease with my co-workers while at work but calling them to ask them to miss their day off is *way* beyond what anxiety would let me do when my defenses were already down due to illness.

[Rebel Yell]

Oh my, and I thought my boss was bad. At least, she doesn't require a doctor's note. Your boss was just mean-spirited! I hope you either don't have to work a paid job now or have a much better position!

Thanks. Honestly, I think my former boss truly had no clue how much it cost for someone with no insurance to pay for an appointment. HE had good insurance. 😡 And paid time off. 🙄

 

I need the money, but I do not work because it would actually cost me more to have a job than not. (Need another car) So I'm at home, making zero money with zero sick days, but at least I have health insurance. 😂

[Danestress]

The problem for employed parents and their bosses is that many parents need a few sick days for themselves, and then days to care for sick children. We had a single mother of three who lost several days a month, on average, between her own illnesses and her children's. Our business really can't function that way. I don't know how these situations should be handed, but they are very real problems in many work environments.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Danestress

[Anne in CA]

Honestly, it seems like you need to develop a supplemental pool. How in the world would you survive a flu epidemic? I've never understood employers who require their employees to find a sub for their shift. Trading shifts, within reason, makes sense, but to place the burden of staffing on the employee instead of the employer seems unfair. The employee isn't responsible for the business, after all. I know a lot of different companies do this, it that doesn't make it right or fair.

LOL, you have no concept how hard it is to keep track of employees at all. Grownups take responsibility for needing to trade shifts. When a person owns a small business they have a lot to do without tracking down everybody and their grandma to cover for someone, sick or not. Stephanie sounds like an awesome boss, and I give her a lot of credit for treating her employees like grownups and expecting them to act like it. Your personal life is just not your bosses problem. Well, for a grown up its not.

 

I have had several employees who are almost elderly and not grown up. It's tough. When you have a small business you need to give your employees enough hours to pay their bills. Adding for people decreases everyone's hours. People who call in frequently REALLY hurt a small business. This year our cooks are making minimum wage plus tips until they complete the season. Then they get a bonus that brings them up to the real wage they should be earning. But NO MORE will I spend weeks training someone and then they spring it on me that they now want to do something else. It puts too much of a burden on good employees, who should not lose out on their bonuses because irresponsible people suck up extra revenue. Grownups show up to work on time and make plans ahead of time and I will always accommodate a sick employee.

 

There is the real problem with our economy today. Too many people don't understand that employees ARE responsible to their employers for the success of the business. People who don't understand this are not desirable employees.

[goldberry]

 Grownups take responsibility for needing to trade shifts. 

 

There is the real problem with our economy today. Too many people don't understand that employees ARE responsible to their employers for the success of the business. People who don't understand this are not desirable employees.

 

Needing to trade shifts is one thing.  Expecting someone puking or with a 103 fever to get on the phone and track down other employees is another thing.

 

Having employees out sick is a normal part of running a business and is something an employer should expect to have to deal with.

 

Employers that don't understand how to treat employees like human beings instead of a disposable resource are not desirable employers.

[Anne in CA]

Needing to trade shifts is one thing.  Expecting someone puking or with a 103 fever to get on the phone and track down other employees is another thing.

 

Having employees out sick is a normal part of running a business and is something an employer should expect to have to deal with.

 

Employers that don't understand how to treat employees like human beings instead of a disposable resource are not desirable employers.

I agree with everything you wrote. I was just showing the other side of the coin. FTR, all my long term employees say dh and I are by far the best bosses they have ever had. I DO see how people get in the position of treating people like a disposable resource. Some people are just users and people without a lot of work history get stuck working for them. It happens. I worked for a couple of real loser when I was young and learned my lessen about who to work for bigtime. DH and I once were in an awful fight when I didn't take a job where I KNEW the boss would treat me poorly but the hours would be good. I am still glad I didn't take it. The trouble for some people is NEEDING that paycheck so much that you can't stand up for yourself. When I was young that happened to me sometimes and it is rough.

[MedicMom]

The problem for employed parents and their bosses is that many parents need a few sick days for themselves, and then days to care for sick children. We had a single mother of three who lost several days a month, on average, between her own illnesses and her children's. Our business really can't function that way. I don't know how these situations should be handed, but they are very real problems in many work environments.

It's a huge problem and there's no good answer. I get PTO with no seperate vacation/sick days. I used almost all of it up for the year when my baby was hospitalized this winter. Now I can't afford to get sick or to have either of my other two kids get sick. This was never an issue for my parents, as they were a one income family and mom was always home to care for sick kids. The world has changed significantly, and it would be nice for businesses practices to catch up---yet I don't know how that's fair to the company, either.

[Bluegoat]

Our business could not survive if folks took many weeks worth of days off each year without advance planning/notice. If we had to add a person each shift, that means we'd increase our staffing cost substantially, likely resulting in us having to reduce wages/benefits across the board. 

 

We can and happily do work with staff who have needs for time off that we can plan for . . . My head receptionist's baby turned 7 months today, and we let her set her own schedule for coming back at whatever amount she wanted  . . . Her desires changed over the months (like I thought they would --her first baby) . . . and instead of coming back FT at 12 weeks, she has decided to stay PT . . .  and I've encouraged her every step of the way since she first told us she was pregnant. Family first; work can be worked out. 

 

What we can't work around is unpredictable call-offs. 

 

If you are the size of Walmart, sure, you can have extra staff on hand. . .  But, as a small vet hospital who is fully staffed at 1 dr + 4-5 support staff (with non-overlapping duties and not all interchangeable). . . adding spare staff is not only expensive but really messes up the work flow. What happens if someone calls off without a sub is that the remaining team members are slammed and stressed when someone calls off without getting another replacement team member to cover. There is only so much we can do to slow work flow if the day's surgeries and appointments are already fully booked when someone no-shows. If we know ahead of time that we'll be short, we can (and do) reduce the case load for the day, but if it's the last minute, we have little we can do to slow the case load. 

 

We have great staff. They don't call off a lot. We bundle all their paid time off (much more than our competitors) so that those who don't get sick can take more vacations. . .  Works well for everyone. Our staff get paid time off from day 1, starting at 10 days the first year, ramping up each years, and our staff (2 of them) who've been there 10 years get 5 weeks paid off . . . we give extra paid time for maternity and paternity leave . . . and we've never said no to a good employee who wanted unpaid leave . . . we encourage and facilitate lengthy maternity leaves, too. Our staff love us. One of the reasons they love working at our business is because we make sure their team mates are as responsible and excellent as they are . . . In fact, our staff does all the hiring process until a final interview before hiring with my husband (the owner/vet)  . . . and believe me, our staff is vigilant to make sure they hire people who are not prone to calling off a lot, because it is them, the staff, who pay the price when someone is off. 

 

One of the reasons we are less able to absorb call-offs is because unlike most small business vets, we staff with all FT'ers except for students/etc who need/want PT. When we bought the hospital, it was mostly minimum wage college students staffing the practice. We transitioned to FT staff who get benefits, stay for years, and are paid fairly . . . We are committed to being a great employer. I think the longevity of our staff is a testament to our success in doing that. If we had all those PT'ers not getting the hours they want, we'd have a pool of willing availablle subs .. . . but with much fewer staff, nearly all FT (or otherwise in school during the hours they aren't working), there aren't many folks to ask to cover a shift. . .  It's just not easy.

 

We have X # of hours of shifts available each week, so if we over-hire, WE are fine, but then our staff ends up not getting the hours they'd like. Our team chooses to work the way we do. I think it's a pretty good deal. We always get staff input on deciding how heavily to staff, and our staff is in charge of the scheduling, too, so they are in control of their destiny. 

 

I intended to be helpful with my post(s), trying to suggest some ideas that could help the OP resolve her problem and avoid future problems. I understand that someone;s job is vital to them, and I intended to offer some perspective from the employer that could help her understand and "work" the system to her benefit. 

 

I expect you were trying to be helpful and you probably were.

 

But I always find this kind of view a little naïve.  The US is really somewhat unusual in being a developed economy that has so few protections for workers.  Many other countries, of different kids with different economies, sizes, different types of industry, protect workers jobs when they are ill.  And they manage to make it work, even for small businesses.

 

Part of the reason such laws exist is to protect workers, but it is also understood to be to protect local businesses and the economy.  People in unstable situations don't make for much of an economic engine.

[Bluegoat]

It's a huge problem and there's no good answer. I get PTO with no seperate vacation/sick days. I used almost all of it up for the year when my baby was hospitalized this winter. Now I can't afford to get sick or to have either of my other two kids get sick. This was never an issue for my parents, as they were a one income family and mom was always home to care for sick kids. The world has changed significantly, and it would be nice for businesses practices to catch up---yet I don't know how that's fair to the company, either.

 

I think what it comes down to is that if we are in an environment where it will be normative to have two working parents in families, you will have to adapt by adopting family leave days.

 

Ideally for everyone, so bad employers don't get an advantage by being stingy.

[ktgrok]

I'm so sorry, I know that stress. I loved my former boss, at a small vet hospital, but it was SO stressful to know that me being out sick made it chaos at the office. When I moved and got a job at a slightly bigger office, where they slightly overstaffed, it was SO much better. Yes, over staffing meant often sending home someone in the afternoon when it was slower, but there were enough people willing to go home early that no one complained about short hours. And being able to call in sick and know that it would be okay was a HUGE relief. 

[TechWife]

LOL, you have no concept how hard it is to keep track of employees at all. Grownups take responsibility for needing to trade shifts. When a person owns a small business they have a lot to do without tracking down everybody and their grandma to cover for someone, sick or not. Stephanie sounds like an awesome boss, and I give her a lot of credit for treating her employees like grownups and expecting them to act like it. Your personal life is just not your bosses problem. Well, for a grown up its not.

 

I have had several employees who are almost elderly and not grown up. It's tough. When you have a small business you need to give your employees enough hours to pay their bills. Adding for people decreases everyone's hours. People who call in frequently REALLY hurt a small business. This year our cooks are making minimum wage plus tips until they complete the season. Then they get a bonus that brings them up to the real wage they should be earning. But NO MORE will I spend weeks training someone and then they spring it on me that they now want to do something else. It puts too much of a burden on good employees, who should not lose out on their bonuses because irresponsible people suck up extra revenue. Grownups show up to work on time and make plans ahead of time and I will always accommodate a sick employee.

 

There is the real problem with our economy today. Too many people don't understand that employees ARE responsible to their employers for the success of the business. People who don't understand this are not desirable employees.

 

Actually, I grew up in a family owned business. I do know exactly what I am talking about. We had three employees. We kids were the supplemental pool. Believe me, I am well versed in employee matters. I also know that my father treated his employees with dignity and believed them when they said they were sick. We had very low turnover, with many people working with us 10+ years. The fact that some of the people on this board have stated that their employers required a doctor's note is incredible. It is disrespectful of them to do so. If people treated their employees better, they would likely have a lower turnover. 

 

Employees are responsible to the employers for doing their jobs to the best of their ability. The employer is responsible for the success of the business. Far too much in a business is out of the control of an employee to say that they are responsible for the success. 

 

Hospitals have supplemental pools for nurses, nurses aides, NP's, PA's and pharmacists. They are trained as hospital employees and then floated around the hospital as needed. If they don't work, they don't get paid. It's not hard, it just takes some planning.  It doesn't decrease the hours for any full or part time permanent employees. 

[StephanieZ]

Honestly, it seems like you need to develop a supplemental pool. How in the world would you survive a flu epidemic? I've never understood employers who require their employees to find a sub for their shift. Trading shifts, within reason, makes sense, but to place the burden of staffing on the employee instead of the employer seems unfair. The employee isn't responsible for the business, after all. I know a lot of different companies do this, it that doesn't make it right or fair.

 

It takes about 6 mos full time experience in OUR hospital for a lay person to be trained up to snuff to be a "veterinary nurse" or "tech" in our practice. It takes a similar length of training for a receptionist to be able to handle the front desk alone. 

 

We are a tiny hospital. If we were a large corporate chain, we could have floaters assigned to fill in shift at a range of hospitals. Plenty of practices are run that way. For very different reasons, we choose to be locally owned and operated by the owner/lead vet. 

 

We aren't a book store or a Walmart. We rely on skilled people and can't abide by errors due to the life and death nature of our work place. If we chose to staff with mostly unskilled people, we could do that, but it's require us having a 2nd FT vet to do the skilled tasks we rely on our lay staff for (combination of licensed techs, who are in short supply, and on-the-job trained nurses). Plenty of practices do that -- hire more vets and fewer lay staff (and pay the few lay staff peanuts). Mistakes in our profession means that patients, clients, or staff can be injured or killed. Thus, you need highly trained staff (in sufficient numbers) to keep everyone safe. Staff injury is a serious issue in vet med, and poorly trained co-workers and to blame for the vast majority of staff injuries. Injuries can be small or devastating. 

 

We've owned our business 12 years, and we haven't ever had to close due to illness. On a handful of occasions, maybe 1x/yr, we've had to reduce scheduling density to accommodate limited staffing. That generally has happened when a number of events co-incide (sudden illness or family emergency in multiple staff +/- a maternity leave +/- sudden quit or firing of a team member). When that sort of chaos occurs, managers tweak scheduling on the fly and/or we run late, meaning all team members work through lunch and/or stay well past scheduled end of day. This is not ideal, but, again, it is the reality of working in a medical field, as any medical personnel would agree. 

 

Our staff is happy; clients are happy; patients are well cared for; owners -- us -- are happy. Maybe part of why we don't have frequent mass illness events is that we pay well enough and offer enough benefits that our staff can afford medical care. Similarly, they can easily arrange time off for DR visits due to our very flexible scheduling system. If we were a Walmart or Vetsmart, our staff would be more PT, more poorly compensated, less likely to have a scheduler who was deeply committed to making our staff's work schedule good for each individual . . . Also, we have built trusting relationships with our team so that they know they can and should stay home when they are truly sick and contagious.

 

I was not complaining about our staff situation or seeking advice on changing it. I was explaining why in certain sorts of businesses, like ours, cannot tolerate frequent call offs. It's totally fine to seek a job where you can regularly call off. If you have a medical condition or a family situation that means you'll need unpredictable and frequent days off, then certainly, you should seek that sort of employer. 

[StephanieZ]

Actually, I grew up in a family owned business. I do know exactly what I am talking about. We had three employees. We kids were the supplemental pool. Believe me, I am well versed in employee matters. I also know that my father treated his employees with dignity and believed them when they said they were sick. We had very low turnover, with many people working with us 10+ years. The fact that some of the people on this board have stated that their employers required a doctor's note is incredible. It is disrespectful of them to do so. If people treated their employees better, they would likely have a lower turnover. 

 

Employees are responsible to the employers for doing their jobs to the best of their ability. The employer is responsible for the success of the business. Far too much in a business is out of the control of an employee to say that they are responsible for the success. 

 

Hospitals have supplemental pools for nurses, nurses aides, NP's, PA's and pharmacists. They are trained as hospital employees and then floated around the hospital as needed. If they don't work, they don't get paid. It's not hard, it just takes some planning.  It doesn't decrease the hours for any full or part time permanent employees. 

 

Sure, of course, a human hospital with 1000s of employees have floaters. 

 

A veterinary hospital (or tiny medical office) with 10-12 employees does not. 

[StephanieZ]

I'm so sorry, I know that stress. I loved my former boss, at a small vet hospital, but it was SO stressful to know that me being out sick made it chaos at the office. When I moved and got a job at a slightly bigger office, where they slightly overstaffed, it was SO much better. Yes, over staffing meant often sending home someone in the afternoon when it was slower, but there were enough people willing to go home early that no one complained about short hours. And being able to call in sick and know that it would be okay was a HUGE relief. 

 

Yep, we've spent times over staffed, and there are some advantages. We let our team choose staffing levels, and they have experienced both ends of the spectrum. We aim for comfortably staffed, lol. 

[ktgrok]

 

 

I was not complaining about our staff situation or seeking advice on changing it. I was explaining why in certain sorts of businesses, like ours, cannot tolerate frequent call offs. It's totally fine to seek a job where you can regularly call off. If you have a medical condition or a family situation that means you'll need unpredictable and frequent days off, then certainly, you should seek that sort of employer. 

 

But no one here was talking about frequent, every other week call offs. Just the normal human condition of sometimes getting sick, probably a few times a year at least. That's not a family situation or medical condition, that's just being human. Coming in to the office when sick means everyone else gets sick, which is a bigger problem. Even when I worked at a clinic with less than 10 employees we let sick people stay home. Heck, we insisted on it. Because as hard as it was to deal with one person out, dealing with multiple people out would be devestating.