Be honest .. am I being too sensitive?

[Tsuga]

Warning: Less empathy ahead.

 

Sometimes I literally feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone and need perspective.

 

My two daughters (ages 21 and 19) came home from college this weekend. I always make sure the house is clean when they come home because, in my opinion mind you, it just feels nicer to walk into a clean home. I also spruce up their rooms so they have clean sheets etc. This year I did a little extra thing: I had just stayed over night in a really nice hotel and for turndown service they left a bottle of water, a glass, and a little chocolate by the bed with slippers. I set up my daughters' rooms like that cuz I thought it would be cute.

 

This shouldn't relate to the rest of it. You did it out of love. That's great. They're not you, though.

 

Two days into them being home the house was a disaster. Dishes piled high in the sink, dishwasher full of dirty dishes, stuff strewn everywhere. I (calmly, because they always accuse me of over-reacting) asked if we could all pitch in and try to keep things clean. I got a lukewarm reaction to that.

 

Sounds like they really don't care about cleaning as much as you.

 

 

Monday night we all sat down to discuss Christmas Eve and Christmas day. My sister always sleeps over with my two nephews on Christmas Eve. I suggested for Christmas Eve I would make a stew that everyone loves and grill up ham and brie sandwiches. My husband suggested I get a ham, roast it, then slice it for the sandwiches instead of going for deli ham. I say this because this is the level of food he wants. He loves the whole "7 fishes" thing and gets all put out when I don't do that. Mind you, I work a full time job! So all this Christmas prep has to happen after work etc. and mostly falls to me.

 

This is why you're getting a divorce, I hope. "Roast your own damn ham" indeed. I'd just let this go. My ex-husband was like that as well. Just insane in terms of demands. But... there's no point getting upset about it. This is a "well isn't he special" thing and roll your eyes.

 

Ok, so that is the background. Last night I come home from work at 7:00 p.m. Tuesdays I work an 11 hour day. No one is home. Both girls are out with friends. My husband is at the gym. All the lights are on. The tv in my husbands office is on. All the heat zones are set to 70 degrees because my daughter says she is always cold. 70 degrees in my house gets very warm (its a big house - it takes a lot to heat it but it does heat up fast.) There is stuff (coats, water bottles, laptops, sweaters, socks, pocketbooks, car keys) strewn everywhere.

 

Hm. Okay. I do think they should be considerate of you. However, I have to say, for a lot of people that is not a huge deal. You aren't talking about a project taking up the entire living room. All these things are a BIG DEAL to you, but at some point you need to accept that not everyone shares your standards. You might think they are slobs and dread when the slobs come to visit but you can't make them care about what you care about. Having a tidy energy efficient house is not a universal human value that everyone has to accept or they are a Bad Person.

 

The dishwasher, which I started before I left for work at 8:00 a.m., is not emptied. The couch cushions are all hanging half on/half off the couch - I guess the Christmas tree fell over, getting needles everywhere, so they vacuumed, but the vacuum was still out in the middle of the room and the couch was a mess. Ornaments that had fell off the tree were just haphazardly on the couch.

 

I literally could've cried. My daughters and husband spent the day going out for breakfast and getting their individual Christmas shopping done. They had a nice day and then just all took off for their individual fun things.

 

Why don't you take off for your thing? Your soon-to-be ex-husband has his things and your daughters have their things. You need a thing.

 

I tried to talk to my husband this morning about it. He said I need to "adjust my expectations" and "not be so uptight" about things.

 

While I don't think your husband has the right to speak to you that way when you're upset, I do think that adjusting expectations of others could be helpful for you in the long run.

 

How do I be okay with the house being a disaster but still "roast a fresh ham to then make the sandwiches for 7 people" after working that day?

 

Don't roast the ham. Do what is important to YOU. They did what was important to them. Now you do what is important to you.

 

How do I ensure that we have ornaments from when the kids were young to pass down to their kids but be ok with those ornaments being tossed all over the couch?

 

Don't. If you want to save them for grandkids don't put them on the tree. I break everything by looking at it.

 

How do I relax when I will have company sleeping over and eating for 3 days?

 

I don't think you will relax--many people can't. I think those that can are like me. "Make yourself at home--here's the fridge, and there's the grocery store. Here's the toilet, and here are the cleaning wipes for a spill." I plan for a big clean afterwards. I will let them know if I want to pick up. "I'll set your things on your bed."

 

 

But when I try to say something to my kids I get so much push-back about being too uptight, that no one cares if they house is clean but me so I should just calm down blah blah blah.

 

I don't think it's realistic or fair to expect them to want the house like you want it, just like your husband isn't being fair about the ham being made. My mom taught me to clean up from a young age and believe me, I just do. not. care. about. water. bottles. on. the. end. table. I was asked to pick up. I tried. I just... don't care. It doesn't bother me.

 

So, hit me with it. Am I expecting too much? Should I not be upset?

 

You can be upset about a dirty house all you want if that bothers you. I get upset about stupid comments on political articles in the newspaper. I'm not sure either of us will make any progress but we have the right to our feelings. I do think that expecting others to share your values, particularly non-essential values like "no life paraphernalia on the dining room table", is expecting too much.

 

TL;DR In a sense you are all doing the same thing: He wants you to value what he wants and do it for him (the ham) and you want him and the kids to value what you want and do it for you (the house). He bakes his own ham, you clean your own house, and let the kids decorate the tree with cheap ornaments if they want to and yours are unavailable due to preservation measures.

 

If you're upset about the dirty house, clean the house. Do what is important to you and let others do what is important to them.

 

Depending on them to share your values of a clean house is setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment.

 

 

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Here's the thing and no disrespect meant at all -- training the girls to do chores fairly automatically had to happen a long time ago. My two boys are 12 and I'm regretting that I didn't have them "helping" more at six year of age. They automatically do dishes because I've insisted on it for years.

 

Alley

Just a nitpick here ... you could have trained them perfectly in the chore area and it may have all gone to pot when they were on their own without Mom's expectations.  I saw that happen here and I am working on undoing the damage. 

[Catwoman]

Again, cracking up over the ham responses!! He really deserved a thunk on the head for suggesting that one.

 

Let me be clear: I never had any intention of cooking a ham to then slice to put into sandwiches! I would smack myself if I did haha. I have lived with him long enough to know that he always pushes super difficult food suggestions for holidays, like homemade raviolis or something like that. So no matter what I cook he is always there with "Yeah it was good, but maybe next time make blah blah blah."

 

That is one of the reasons we are getting divorced. Nothing is ever good enough for him. Everything has to be done to the extreme. That is fine if he wants to push himself like that and never be happy with himself, but I am moving on with life and no longer feeling "less than".

 

When he suggested I get a ham and then cook it, I said "How about I get a piglet, raise him until he is grown, slaughter him and then smoke the meat in a smoke house I will build myself!" I think he got the message that I wasn't doing it no way, no how.

 

I had lunch with my daughters today and said to them "I love having you home and want to really enjoy this time with you, so I will relax my standards a bit and not stress so much over the house if you guys try to just be more aware of not leaving things a mess." I think they heard me, but we will see when I get home! But on my end I do plan to try to relax a bit more, pick up stuff even if I want to explode, and just try to enjoy the short time they are home.

I think you are handling this beautifully! :hurray:

 

I particularly enjoyed your response to his request for the ham. :lol:

[Word Nerd]

I'd call them on the "you're overreacting" comments if you are honest with yourself and don't think that's a fair assessment.

[bettyandbob]

Definitely pick the thing you like best. 

 

If clean is important, then clean. I'm not clean, but overly cluttered raises my anxiety so I understand this need a little.

 

After you clean take your sister and her kids out to dinner or order take out.

 

Oh and when you clean just throw and I do mean throw your dds things in their rooms. Do not fold and neatly place on bed. And do not stop and quickly tidy up their rooms as you are throwing stuff in. They will start noticing that you aren't giving anymore care to their things than they were. And they can't argue with they should have put it away to begin with. 

 

Your Christmas tree is up and the ornaments are out. I'd leave them there this year. I would go to Micheals and get a small artificial tree on sale for next year now though (easy peasy, no vacuum, and plan on less or no ornaments). 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Okay, I haven't read every single response, but are we basically in agreement that if he wants ham, he can bake it himself, and if she bakes it for him, we're going to go to her house and beat her over the head with it for caving in to his ridiculous and selfish demands? ;)

 

All I know is that based on this one example, I can already understand why she is divorcing him.

 

But one thing, Home'scool -- if he is this obnoxious about a stupid baked ham and thinks he can tell you what to do, I hope you have a very good divorce attorney who will work hard to protect your interests. I am concerned that things may only be amicable right now because you are walking on eggshells around him and he is getting his way. Please make sure that your kindness isn't being mistaken for weakness and that you don't get cheated in the settlement. :grouphug:

Listen to the wise Cat. I am concerned about this as well - please protect yourself as needed.

[zoobie]

Again, cracking up over the ham responses!! He really deserved a thunk on the head for suggesting that one.

 

Let me be clear: I never had any intention of cooking a ham to then slice to put into sandwiches! I would smack myself if I did haha. I have lived with him long enough to know that he always pushes super difficult food suggestions for holidays, like homemade raviolis or something like that. So no matter what I cook he is always there with "Yeah it was good, but maybe next time make blah blah blah."

 

That is one of the reasons we are getting divorced. Nothing is ever good enough for him. Everything has to be done to the extreme. That is fine if he wants to push himself like that and never be happy with himself, but I am moving on with life and no longer feeling "less than".

 

When he suggested I get a ham and then cook it, I said "How about I get a piglet, raise him until he is grown, slaughter him and then smoke the meat in a smoke house I will build myself!" I think he got the message that I wasn't doing it no way, no how.

 

I had lunch with my daughters today and said to them "I love having you home and want to really enjoy this time with you, so I will relax my standards a bit and not stress so much over the house if you guys try to just be more aware of not leaving things a mess." I think they heard me, but we will see when I get home! But on my end I do plan to try to relax a bit more, pick up stuff even if I want to explode, and just try to enjoy the short time they are home.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Harriet Vane]

He can bake his own ham. (Loved your response to that!)

 

I don't really care that your kids are in vacation mode. Their behavior is rude and insensitive. Part of parenting is training them to be mature adults, so I would definitely call them out on the mess. Treating you like a doormat will not teach them to be considerate of their roommates, co-workers, or future spouses.

[bettyandbob]

I think you should give your soon to be ex a piglet to raise for Christmas. 

[ktgrok]

Also, if college kids live in a dorm, they probably are not paying for utilities, so have gotten out of the habit of turning off lights, worrying about thermostat, etc. 

 

Although I'm laughing because I keep my house at 72 in the winter, so 70 seems darned reasonable :) And yet, I'm a good person, I swear. Even if I leave my keys and purse all over the place. 

[mamiof5]

Wait...you are going out of your way to please the person you are getting divorced from? You are too nice. No, your expectations are not too high...you are dealing with adults, not children! And of course you want your house to look nice when your sister comes. Here most of the Christmas prep falls on my shoulders (planning meals, buying presents, wrapping etc). Cleaning is everyone's job, not only mine. Please make a meal you can afford (timewise) to make, and I hope your dds help with cleaning before your sister's visit.

[Caribbean Queen]

Baking ham is not super difficult or extreme.  I understand that you are not willing/able to do it, but they doesn't make your husband a jerk to suggest it. 

 

You gave them a little talking to, and you plan on picking up after your kids until you want to explode?   You sound like a "martyr." 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, cracking up over the ham responses!! He really deserved a thunk on the head for suggesting that one.

 

Let me be clear: I never had any intention of cooking a ham to then slice to put into sandwiches! I would smack myself if I did haha. I have lived with him long enough to know that he always pushes super difficult food suggestions for holidays, like homemade raviolis or something like that. So no matter what I cook he is always there with "Yeah it was good, but maybe next time make blah blah blah."

 

That is one of the reasons we are getting divorced. Nothing is ever good enough for him. Everything has to be done to the extreme. That is fine if he wants to push himself like that and never be happy with himself, but I am moving on with life and no longer feeling "less than".

 

When he suggested I get a ham and then cook it, I said "How about I get a piglet, raise him until he is grown, slaughter him and then smoke the meat in a smoke house I will build myself!" I think he got the message that I wasn't doing it no way, no how.

 

I had lunch with my daughters today and said to them "I love having you home and want to really enjoy this time with you, so I will relax my standards a bit and not stress so much over the house if you guys try to just be more aware of not leaving things a mess." I think they heard me, but we will see when I get home! But on my end I do plan to try to relax a bit more, pick up stuff even if I want to explode, and just try to enjoy the short time they are home.

[Doodlebug]

I think I would lose it on them.  Not that you should... but come on!  

 

You've gone to great effort emotionally and physically to make this a pleasant Christmas for everyone.

 

You've asked your grown children to pick up their things and be generally tidy, and you've been told you're too up tight.  

 

Excuse me for getting a divorce for Christmas and thinking my ADULT children might be capable of keeping our shared environment tidied because it mattered TO ME.  

 

Really!? 

 

 

 

 

  

[frogger]

If you have a friend nearby that you can have a glass of wine with (if you like that sort of thing) and enjoy a clean and tidy atmosphere (her house, a specific room in your house, or comfortable restaurant) I would suggest that. If they are completely unhelpful I would just make a special time to relax and clean the house when they leave.

 

I'm concerned the father may(I have only heard a snippet of the story of course) be trying to be the "fun one" that everyone gets along with during the divorce while still using you for the work horse. Don't let him. I suggest ignoring the house (except the very most important things to you like something special getting broken) and take your girls to do something fun. You should have at least one time without argument or fight with your daughters if possible. Not for their sake but for yours. It is possible they have more tolerance for mess but will help out when it gets past their tolerance level. I wouldn't count on it though.

 

Typically, I'm hard nosed with chores and my kids do a lot around here but the divorce thing changes a lot of dynamics. Also, they may be struggling with the last Christmas with Mom and Dad together thing. I really don't know so perhaps I'm completly off but something to think about at least.

Edited December 23, 2015 by frogger

[Catwoman]

Baking ham is not super difficult or extreme. I understand that you are not willing/able to do it, but they doesn't make your husband a jerk to suggest it.

 

You gave them a little talking to, and you plan on picking up after your kids until you want to explode? You sound like a "martyr."

I think you are being unnecessarily harsh.

 

Her husband is her soon-to-be EX-husband, so I think he should consider himself lucky to be included in the OP's Christmas plans at all. And her posts indicate that he is the kind of person for whom nothing is ever quite good enough, so I absolutely agree with her position.

 

And I think your "martyr" comment was completely uncalled for, as well. She is trying to keep the holidays as normal as possible for her family under the circumstances, but they have been inconsiderate of her needs. It sounds like she has spoken with her dds and they have reached an understanding. I don't think she was being a martyr at all; I think she was just trying to be a good mom to her dds and make them feel happy and welcome while they are at home for Christmas, but she got annoyed with their actions.

 

Getting annoyed because people aren't considering your feelings isn't being a martyr. It's being normal.

[Liz CA]

I had a response in my head until I got to the part where you and your dh are in divorce proceedings. I'd let it go. Next year, Christmas will be different. When you have your own place you set the rules for your daughters. They can make a mess at dh's place. Congrats that you are able to do it amicably so you will likely still meet somewhere for Christmas dinner, etc. but your house will be your own.

[Caribbean Queen]

I think you are being unnecessarily harsh.

 

Her husband is her soon-to-be EX-husband, so I think he should consider himself lucky to be included in the OP's Christmas plans at all. And her posts indicate that he is the kind of person for whom nothing is ever quite good enough, so I absolutely agree with her position.

 

And I think your "martyr" comment was completely uncalled for, as well. She is trying to keep the holidays as normal as possible for her family under the circumstances, but they have been inconsiderate of her needs. It sounds like she has spoken with her dds and they have reached an understanding. I don't think she was being a martyr at all; I think she was just trying to be a good mom to her dds and make them feel happy and welcome while they are at home for Christmas, but she got annoyed with their actions.

 

Getting annoyed because people aren't considering your feelings isn't being a martyr. It's being normal.

 

Saying her husband is not a jerk for requesting ham is harsh?

 

As I already stated, when the OP said she gave her children a little talk about cleaning, yet will plan to clean up after them until she wants to explode, THAT sounded like she is a "martyr." 

[bettyandbob]

Saying her husband is not a jerk for requesting ham is harsh?

 

As I already stated, when the OP said she gave her children a little talk about cleaning, yet will plan to clean up after them until she wants to explode, THAT sounded like she is a "martyr." 

 

in this context it is. The OP is working, at times 11 hour days and spending evenings cleaning and getting ready for the holiday. Soon to be ex and the two adult dd are not helping. The adult dds are messing up the house and the soon to be ex is telling OP to lighten up and while he's telling her to lighten up he's also telling her how to prepare the meal he expects to get. He's not offering to make the meal or pick up the slack from the kids. He's just adding to the burden. 

 

Your post suggests the OP should accept the further burden from soon to be ex.

 

Honestly, unless someone is asking me how they should prepare my birthday dinner I do not request specific food from other adults. I'm just happy that someone else is making it. If I want something specifically, I make it.

[Catwoman]

Saying her husband is not a jerk for requesting ham is harsh?

 

As I already stated, when the OP said she gave her children a little talk about cleaning, yet will plan to clean up after them until she wants to explode, THAT sounded like she is a "martyr."

Yes. He is soon to be her ex-husband. He is not in a position to make demands.

 

I still disagree with your martyr comment, as well, and think your comments to the OP are coming across in a very mean way.

[Catwoman]

in this context it is. The OP is working, at times 11 hour days and spending evenings cleaning and getting ready for the holiday. Soon to be ex and the two adult dd are not helping. The adult dds are messing up the house and the soon to be ex is telling OP to lighten up and while he's telling her to lighten up he's also telling her how to prepare the meal he expects to get. He's not offering to make the meal or pick up the slack from the kids. He's just adding to the burden.

 

Your post suggests the OP should accept the further burden from soon to be ex.

 

Honestly, unless someone is asking me how they should prepare my birthday dinner I do not request specific food from other adults. I'm just happy that someone else is making it. If I want something specifically, I make it.

:iagree:

 

Frankly, I can't imagine how anyone could have read Home'scool's posts and not been very sympathetic toward her.

[gardenmom5]

:iagree:

 

Frankly, I can't imagine how anyone could have read Home'scool's posts and not been very sympathetic toward her.

 

sadly I can.  especially certain sectors of ___  who think women were put on this earth to be nothing but servants.

[Soror]

Yes. He is soon to be her ex-husband. He is not in a position to make demands.

 

I still disagree with your martyr comment, as well, and think your comments to the OP are coming across in a very mean way.

Even if it was not soon to be ex I think it would be a total jerkwad comment. She is working all day, a decent man would volunteer to take some of the load off, to not do so shows little regard for her worth and health.

Edited December 23, 2015 by soror

[goldberry]

And it's not a matter of "it's only important to her, so she should clean".  It's about respect from young adults for the household and for the feelings of their mother.  She's not asking them to yank out their fingernails for goodness sake... how hard is it to pick up a jacket instead of throwing it on the floor?

[foxbridgeacademy]

I'd probably gathered up the junk and dropped it in the middle of their bedroom floor, they left it for me to clean up so you know.... I cleaned it up.

 

I'd also have fallen down laughing at a soon to be ex who expected me to cook him a ham, amicable divorce or not.

 

I'd probably, in a sweet voice, inform everyone that I was now on strike.

[Caribbean Queen]

Yes. He is soon to be her ex-husband. He is not in a position to make demands.

 

 

He didn't demand ham. 

 

The OP said, "When he suggested I get a ham and then cook it, I said "How about I get a piglet, raise him until he is grown, slaughter him and then smoke the meat in a smoke house I will build myself!" I think he got the message that I wasn't doing it no way, no how."

 

Gardenmom5, It is stretching things quite a bit to suggest I think woman were put on earth to be nothing but servants, just because I wont call him a jerk for asking the OP to bake ham.  He asks.  She says no. Fair enough.

[Caribbean Queen]

 He's not offering to make the meal or pick up the slack from the kids. He's just adding to the burden. 

 

Your post suggests the OP should accept the further burden from soon to be ex.

 

No, I said I understand that she is unwilling/unable to bake a ham.

[Catwoman]

He didn't demand ham.

 

The OP said, "When he suggested I get a ham and then cook it, I said "How about I get a piglet, raise him until he is grown, slaughter him and then smoke the meat in a smoke house I will build myself!" I think he got the message that I wasn't doing it no way, no how."

 

Gardenmom5, It is stretching things quite a bit to suggest I think woman were put on earth to be nothing but servants, just because I wont call him a jerk for asking the OP to bake ham. He asks. She says no. Fair enough.

Did you read all of the OP's posts to this thread? I only ask because I think most of us are basing our responses on her descriptions of his personality as well as the fact that they are already in the middle of a divorce, combined with the fact that he had done nothing to help her prepare for the holiday despite her working 11 hour days outside the home.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Catwoman

[Alessandra]

Op, you might want to watch the film, Waiting to Exhale. One woman throws all her soon to be ex husband's clothes and junk in the driveway and burns it, big bonfire. The scene when he comes home is priceless. Not suggesting you do this, lol, but good comic relief.

[Tsuga]

And it's not a matter of "it's only important to her, so she should clean". It's about respect from young adults for the household and for the feelings of their mother. She's not asking them to yank out their fingernails for goodness sake... how hard is it to pick up a jacket instead of throwing it on the floor?

We put our jackets on chairs.

 

It is a cultural difference.

 

No, putting it away in the closet is not yanking out a fingernail but neither is baking a ham!

 

I'd rather bake a ham than clean a house. Same with my partner. So would the kids. Which is why the fridge is full and the house is untidy.

 

It is fine to want a clean house.

 

It is not healthy to demand that everyone share your standard of cleanliness and tidiness and get upset because they do not.

 

I think the kids and the dad share a standard of cleanliness that she thinks is gross. It is okay to think it's gross but I personally would give up on converting them to my standards.

 

For some people ham is important, for other people no jackets on the chairs is important, for others like myself, no whining that others aren't meeting your standards is important.

 

You can ask people to help but you can't ask them to agree with your feelings or standards. That is not healthy for you. They will refuse and yo'll be sad.

 

I guarantee it will not work. Never have I ever seen one adult convince someone else that "the coat had to go here and not there because that's just where coats go!!!" They will see the coat on the divan and say, "I am still not dead. Nope, not dead yet. I guess it's a personal preference."

Edited December 24, 2015 by Tsuga

[Chris in VA]

Baking ham is not super difficult or extreme.  I understand that you are not willing/able to do it, but they doesn't make your husband a jerk to suggest it. 

 

You gave them a little talking to, and you plan on picking up after your kids until you want to explode?   You sound like a "martyr." 

 

I kinda agree. I don't know much about baking fresh ham, but here are directions from Paula Deen:

 

Sprinkle seasonings liberally until the ham is completely covered (don't worry about over-seasoning). Place uncovered in the oven for 18 to 20 minutes per pound, or until the internal temperature reaches 160 degrees F on a meat thermometer. When done, let the ham rest for a few minutes before slicing.

 

Not hard.

So--it doesn't really strike me as a request that is unreasonable.

 

And, like Katy said, purses/keys/coats/laptops doesn't seem like a HUGE mess to me.

 

BUT, that said, I do feel for you.

 

I think you have a good plan for getting thru the holidays. I also think your hubby is insensitive. Yes, I do feel you are too sensitive, but I can't imagine how I'd be under the stress you are living with.

 

I hope that shared my opinion without being harsh.

[Melissa in Australia]

I'd probably gathered up the junk and dropped it in the middle of their bedroom floor, they left it for me to clean up so you know.... I cleaned it up.

 

I'd also have fallen down laughing at a soon to be ex who expected me to cook him a ham, amicable divorce or not.

 

I'd probably, in a sweet voice, inform everyone that I was now on strike.

:iagree:

[Abeille]

No, cooking a ham is not a big deal. That's not the point. The point is that doing that, especially *for sandwiches*, is just one.more.thing to add to the OP's stress at an already difficult and stress-filed time and that it's a kind of crappy thing to even ask for given the circumstances.

[HomeAgain]

I kinda agree. I don't know much about baking fresh ham, but here are directions from Paula Deen:

 

Sprinkle seasonings liberally until the ham is completely covered (don't worry about over-seasoning). Place uncovered in the oven for 18 to 20 minutes per pound, or until the internal temperature reaches 160 degrees F on a meat thermometer. When done, let the ham rest for a few minutes before slicing.

 

Not hard.

So--it doesn't really strike me as a request that is unreasonable.

 

And, like Katy said, purses/keys/coats/laptops doesn't seem like a HUGE mess to me.

 

BUT, that said, I do feel for you.

 

I think you have a good plan for getting thru the holidays. I also think your hubby is insensitive. Yes, I do feel you are too sensitive, but I can't imagine how I'd be under the stress you are living with.

 

I hope that shared my opinion without being harsh.

 

Great!  Those are awesome directions to hand over to the STBX with a smile.  Obviously not hard, and he certainly has the time to do it!

 

In this house, there is a total belief that we get to GIVE, but no one has the right to DEMAND.  My offerings are just that, offerings.  They are not meeting someone else's requests unless I specifically ask them what they would like.

 

[TammyS]

 

 

My husband and I are in the middle of getting divorced. It has been very amicable but at this point I have given up on trying to change his perspective -- he will always be who he is.

 

 

 

Ok, so I read through this whole thing, and then I came to the above.  Why, for pity's sake, are you working so hard to accomodate a dude who you are divorcing?  Are you kidding me? 

 

Ugh.  You aren't being too sensitive. In fact, you aren't being sensitive enough.  These people are plenty old enough to pick up after themselves and be aware that electricity costs money.

 

If it were me, I'd call your sister and arrange to spend the holidays at a hotel with her and her kids.

 

I'd leave a note for your kids (ignore the husband, he's on the way out the door) that they need to have the house spic-n-span when you get back, or they will not be returning to your home from college anymore, because they are now adults and you don't owe them your home anymore. 

Unbelievable.

 

 

[VaKim]

No, cooking a ham is not a big deal. That's not the point. The point is that doing that, especially *for sandwiches*, is just one.more.thing to add to the OP's stress at an already difficult and stress-filed time and that it's a kind of crappy thing to even ask for given the circumstances.

And it seems that the people who are saying the op is being too sensitive have ignored the part about her working full time, 11 hours a day some days, and her DH and daughters being off all day to do what they want and leaving all the work to her. 

[TammyS]

 

 

I like the overall advice of realizing that my standards are a bit high and therefore I should expect to do more on my end, but also relax my standards a bit for a bit more of a cluttered house when my kids are home.

 

NO!  It is your freaking house!  You get to set the standards!  You do your ADULT children a disservice if you don't teach them this now.

 

Personally, I would throw all their crap on the yard.  If they don't care enough about it to put it away, no reason you should.

 

If these ADULTS don't like your standards, they are welcome to GET OUT.

[Home'scool]

Let me clarify a few things:

 

1) My husband did ask, and not demand, that I cook a ham instead of using deli ham. The point I have contention with is that he always asks for something extra, and time consuming, for holiday dinners. I host ALL the family holidays except for Easter and he gives me no credit for that. And he does not help out AT ALL. No help with cleaning, no help with cooking, no help with anything.

If I did agree to cook the ham to then slice it to use for sandwiches he would've moved on to another demand. Like adding a course of homemade pasta to the menu. I kid you not. One year I asked him to help me wrap presents and he scoffed and said "no way." Big red flag for me? Yeah, should have been. I should have taken my very wise grandmother's advice to "start things the way I want them finished" and put my foot down early in the marriage. But I didn't - for a lot of reasons. He was a very good husband in his own way. Marriage is a give and take. It's just at the end he ended up wanting to take to much and I stopped trying to give. So we are parting ways.

 

2) I do like a very neat house. I do not think, though, that I was being a martyr when I came home the other night. A jacket on a chair is one thing, A jacket on a chair, dirty socks in the middle of the floor, dirty dishes in the family room (that's just gross), so much stuff strewn on the floor that you have to walk weirdly around things to go across the room...... nah, that's just slovenly. I am trying to balance my daughters being on "vacation" from school and wanting to feel comfortable in their own home to having a sense that their mother works and would appreciate not coming home to a disaster for a home. I always say to my daughters "If I am being considerate of you, and you are being considerate of me, we will never have any problems."

 

3) When I said I would go around picking up things even if my head wanted to explode I was saying that I would do my part of the equation, which is not freaking out when the house gets messy. It would still bother me, that's just how I am wired, but I would pick things up and move on with life. I did not mean I would internalize things and feel sorry for myself and go around muttering while cleaning.

 

4) As far as our divorce proceedings, my husband can be completely clueless when it comes to how he thinks life should be. He is the typical spoiled oldest child of an Italian doting mother. I am Italian too so I am not trying to insult any ethnicity - it is a situation that exists! However, he is honest and trustworthy and has a lot of character. We still love each other, we are just not in love anymore. He is a very good father. And like I said, in a lot of other ways he was a very good husband. He is my soul-mate, we just aren't meant to finish out our life journeys together. We have been clear with each other - I will not try to take him to the cleaners (he makes a good amount of money and we have been married for 29 years) and he will not try to leave me just scraping by. I have been clear that I want a nice alimony, half his retirement fund, and half of any future bonuses he gets. He is where he is in his career partly because of the support and sacrifices I have made for him and he knows that. We also plan (and I hope we are able to achieve this) to stay close after the divorce. Holidays will still be spent together etc. We have been still living together for the past 6 months since we decided to get divorced because we are prepping the house for sale, etc. We go out for dinner, we rent movies, all the usual. It has been hard, and weird at times, but it is what it is. I deserve to be happy and so does he.

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Home'scool

[kewb]

To those who say it is not that big of deal to bake a ham. While true it is not difficult it does require time. The op works long days and appears to be doing the majority of the work. You can bet I would be buying the deli ham. 20 minutes to drive to store and purchase already cooked ham vs 20 minutes to buy fresh ham, spend a couple of hours baking, then slicing for sandwiches.

[Soror]

Any request at this point is unreasonable to me because 1- he is the soon to be ex and 2- she is working 11hr days and he isn't working at all. Seriously. He should be volunteering to do this stuff. 

 

Homes'cool IMO you have no reason to explain or apologize- your soon to be ex is behavior is at best oblivious and insensitive, given the history and details it is callous and selfish.

[Alessandra]

To those who say it is not that big of deal to bake a ham. While true it is not difficult it does require time. The op works long days and appears to be doing the majority of the work. You can bet I would be buying the deli ham. 20 minutes to drive to store and purchase already cooked ham vs 20 minutes to buy fresh ham, spend a couple of hours baking, then slicing for sandwiches.

My thoughts exactly. The killer for me is that you shouldn't pop a hot ham directly into a refrigerator. It should cool first. So, multiple hours spent with ham after a day at work.

[happypamama]

You are getting a divorce and he wants you to cook a ham? He can cook his own ham! :grouphug:

Yes, this.

 

I'd cut the girls a little slack. They're used to being on their own and having their stuff wherever they leave it, and if they live in dorms, they probably have housekeeper service to clean the bathrooms (we did, anyway, sparkling clean every single day). They're probably just not thinking. I'd talk to them one on one, in the midst of the mess, not in their rooms, and say, "Please put away your things. I'm working, and clutter around just means more stress for everyone."

 

I'd pack up the fallen ornaments and put them away. If they want them out, they can put them back on the tree.

 

For the ham. Uh, no. After a full work day, when there's a far easier alternative? No. I'd find it hard to go that extra mile for someone with whom I was in a close relationship, but for a man whom I was divorcing? He can make the ham himself.

 

You're not too sensitive. I think they're taking unfair advantage of you.

[Mothersweets]

OP, :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Edited December 24, 2015 by Mothersweets

[frogger]

Home'scool,

 

I'm sorry this thread made you have to explain more. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a deli ham and a whole thread arguing about it just isn't worth your time.

 

Hope you find a way to have a little enjoyment one way or the other.

[Tsuga]

Ok, so I read through this whole thing, and then I came to the above.  Why, for pity's sake, are you working so hard to accomodate a dude who you are divorcing?  Are you kidding me? 

 

Ugh.  You aren't being too sensitive. In fact, you aren't being sensitive enough.  These people are plenty old enough to pick up after themselves and be aware that electricity costs money.

 

 

 

Being sensitive does not help during a divorce. I don't think she's been too sensitive so far--she's just pissed off about an untidy house, join the club, we've all been there and I don't think she has to apologize for that--but not sensitive enough?

 

Having personal boundaries does.

 

The more feelings you have, the more you are letting your ex-husband control your life.

 

 

 

I do like a very neat house. I do not think, though, that I was being a martyr when I came home the other night. A jacket on a chair is one thing, A jacket on a chair, dirty socks in the middle of the floor, dirty dishes in the family room (that's just gross), so much stuff strewn on the floor that you have to walk weirdly around things to go across the room...... nah, that's just slovenly. I am trying to balance my daughters being on "vacation" from school and wanting to feel comfortable in their own home to having a sense that their mother works and would appreciate not coming home to a disaster for a home. I always say to my daughters "If I am being considerate of you, and you are being considerate of me, we will never have any problems."

 

I agree that you are not being a martyr just because you like a tidy house and they are irritating you.

 

You didn't mention dirty dishes in the family room, which I do agree is disgusting. Food outside the kitchen is actually a health issue and I think it is fair to draw that line.

 

However, I think all the other things you mentioned are a question of personal preference.

 

I think it would really help your case to treat them as guests and not as children if they are going to act like guests and not like children who's mother is in charge, meaning, you get one of those rooms.

 

But also... you can never be too careful during a divorce. Please believe me. It doesn't matter how nice he is now. Watch out for yourself. I don't mean be angry or defensive. Just keep an eye out.

 

Hugs.

[PrincessMommy]

I'd be angry and crying too.  I'd be frustrated that *someone* suggested a more difficult dinner without offering to make said dinner.  I don't blame you for being frustrated.  Tell soon-to-be xdh that if he wants fancy ham sandwiches that he can make them himself.