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Be honest .. am I being too sensitive?


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Sometimes I literally feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone and need perspective.

 

My two daughters (ages 21 and 19) came home from college this weekend. I always make sure the house is clean when they come home because, in my opinion mind you, it just feels nicer to walk into a clean home. I also spruce up their rooms so they have clean sheets etc. This year I did a little extra thing: I had just stayed over night in a really nice hotel and for turndown service they left a bottle of water, a glass, and a little chocolate by the bed with slippers. I set up my daughters' rooms like that cuz I thought it would be cute.

 

Two days into them being home the house was a disaster. Dishes piled high in the sink, dishwasher full of dirty dishes, stuff strewn everywhere. I (calmly, because they always accuse me of over-reacting) asked if we could all pitch in and try to keep things clean. I got a lukewarm reaction to that.

 

Monday night we all sat down to discuss Christmas Eve and Christmas day. My sister always sleeps over with my two nephews on Christmas Eve. I suggested for Christmas Eve I would make a stew that everyone loves and grill up ham and brie sandwiches. My husband suggested I get a ham, roast it, then slice it for the sandwiches instead of going for deli ham. I say this because this is the level of food he wants. He loves the whole "7 fishes" thing and gets all put out when I don't do that. Mind you, I work a full time job! So all this Christmas prep has to happen after work etc. and mostly falls to me.

 

Ok, so that is the background. Last night I come home from work at 7:00 p.m. Tuesdays I work an 11 hour day. No one is home. Both girls are out with friends. My husband is at the gym. All the lights are on. The tv in my husbands office is on. All the heat zones are set to 70 degrees because my daughter says she is always cold. 70 degrees in my house gets very warm (its a big house - it takes a lot to heat it but it does heat up fast.) There is stuff (coats, water bottles, laptops, sweaters, socks, pocketbooks, car keys) strewn everywhere. The dishwasher, which I started before I left for work at 8:00 a.m., is not emptied. The couch cushions are all hanging half on/half off the couch - I guess the Christmas tree fell over, getting needles everywhere, so they vacuumed, but the vacuum was still out in the middle of the room and the couch was a mess. Ornaments that had fell off the tree were just haphazardly on the couch.

 

I literally could've cried. My daughters and husband spent the day going out for breakfast and getting their individual Christmas shopping done. They had a nice day and then just all took off for their individual fun things.

 

I tried to talk to my husband this morning about it. He said I need to "adjust my expectations" and "not be so uptight" about things. How do I be okay with the house being a disaster but still "roast a fresh ham to then make the sandwiches for 7 people" after working that day? How do I ensure that we have ornaments from when the kids were young to pass down to their kids but be ok with those ornaments being tossed all over the couch? How do I relax when I will have company sleeping over and eating for 3 days?

 

My husband and I are in the middle of getting divorced. It has been very amicable but at this point I have given up on trying to change his perspective -- he will always be who he is.

 

But when I try to say something to my kids I get so much push-back about being too uptight, that no one cares if they house is clean but me so I should just calm down blah blah blah.

 

So, hit me with it. Am I expecting too much? Should I not be upset?

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Sounds like it would be have been a good time to turn around and go get yourself a cafe mocha somewhere.  :grouphug:

 

I don't think you're being too sensitive, but I would not discount your last statement, you're in the middle of a divorce, that's going to heighten your sensitivity to everything. 

 

If you are the one who generally cleans up after people, I don't think you should expect any different now. You didn't say either way. I also wouldn't do a ham because someone I'm in the middle of divorcing thought it would be better, unless he decided to do all the cooking and prep. 

 

:grouphug: I'd probably have a good cry, talk with the girls about helping out, and try to enjoy the time and set aside the mess. I would also "greatly encourage" them to help you out or at least be more proactive about cleaning up after themselves. 

 

 

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I think the person insisting on roasted ham should make it.

 

I'd adjust expectations, but not drop them. It's important to me that a couple rooms be presentable, so coats and stuff are not to dropped where ever. I will grumble if coats are not hung up, but I can still live with the coats piled on the stairs or railing near our hall closet--as long as I don't have the visual of crap all over the living room.

 

So figure out the short cuts you can live with. Can you have junk piled on the stairs for the next person's trip up?

 

Figure out what needs to stay neat (not everything).

 

Say you are buying deli ham because you are tired and want to be able to enjoy the holiday too.

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He can make his own damn ham.

 

:grouphug: This Christmas has to be tough and emotional for you anyway. I would set very clear expectations for the college girls and remind them they're not staying in a hotel with maid service. Pass out assignments. Cheerfully to them, but give them direct tasks to help the family prepare for Christmas and guests.

 

Seriously, make whatever sounds good to you that is worth your time and effort.

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I tried to talk to my husband this morning about it. He said I need to "adjust my expectations" and "not be so uptight" about things. How do I be okay with the house being a disaster but still "roast a fresh ham to then make the sandwiches for 7 people" after working that day? How do I ensure that we have ornaments from when the kids were young to pass down to their kids but be ok with those ornaments being tossed all over the couch? How do I relax when I will have company sleeping over and eating for 3 days?

 

My husband and I are in the middle of getting divorced. It has been very amicable but at this point I have given up on trying to change his perspective -- he will always be who he is.

 

But when I try to say something to my kids I get so much push-back about being too uptight, that no one cares if they house is clean but me so I should just calm down blah blah blah.

 

So, hit me with it. Am I expecting too much? Should I not be upset?

 

 

I'm so sorry.  I'd be sorry tempted to just tell him to "adjust his expectations" regarding a roast ham.  buy one with directions - and tell him if he wants it, he can roast it himself.

 

I'd put the ornaments that were on the floor - away.  not back on the tree.  they apparently don't care about the ornaments - and if they ask, "they're in their box in the garage where they won't get broken.  if you want it on the tree - you're welcome to do it yourself."

 

I'd also be sorley tempted to take all those things strewn about - and put them away somewhere ELSE.   they obviously didn't need it to go outside - if they want it back, they can clean something.  for each item. (or at least be helpful.) if they don't want to clean something, they must not want the itme.

 

I'd be very nonchalant, and a strong ces't la vie attitude.

 

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In defense of your daughters. No matter how old we are when my sister and I walk into mom's house we instantly revert to behaving like 6 year Olds. Call them on the behavior and have them pitch in.

 

If your husband wants a 7 fishes dinner he can darn well make it himself. You are working full time and should not be guilted into preparing a meal that creates a lot of extra work for you.

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He can make his own damn ham.

 

:grouphug: This Christmas has to be tough and emotional for you anyway. I would set very clear expectations for the college girls and remind them they're not staying in a hotel with maid service. Pass out assignments. Cheerfully to them, but give them direct tasks to help the family prepare for Christmas and guests.

 

Seriously, make whatever sounds good to you that is worth your time and effort.

 

I agree. This is family you are talking about...not just some friends or random guests. I hate to say it, but judging by what your husband's attitude is on things, it sounds like he didn't help to make them appreciate the efforts you put in to things growing up. Mine will clearly tell our kids that I am not the only person in the house, and I deserve to have a hand, especially when I was working full time.

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I would demand that the girls pick up the house every day.

 

I would tell DH that he can make the ham if he doesn't want you to buy slices.

 

Nobody is being considerate of your feelings.  No, you are not overreacting.

 

If your kids were in primary school, then I'd say you were maybe overreacting.

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If you're getting a divorce, I would not give a flying fig for what your husband wants regarding the ham.  I think he needs to adjust his expectations and not be so uptight.   But, I would give up on expecting anything from him.

 

The girls, on the other hand, are old enough to understand that it's a busy, stressful time and you could use their help.  Did you used to be home and only returned to work recently?   You may need to lay-out new expectations.  

 

ETA:  I'd probably go with the above suggestion to put away the ornaments somewhere safe, and either hide the rest of the stuff and return when work is done, or just dump in on their beds so it's out of my space and they have to do something with it to sleep. Most likely the return in exchange for jobs would be more work for me so I'd just dump it in their space.  

 

Edited by Where's Toto?
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I would calmly tell your almost grown daughters to clean up their mess. If they are unwilling, I would just leave it. You should make the stew that you wanted and tell your almost ex husband to contribute the ham. He should learn to cook his own holiday dishes since you two are breaking up anyway.

 

Hugs, sincerely.

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These are all adults. Very soon you won't be living with any of them and can keep your house as neat as a pin. Maybe right now you're focusing on what you CAN control? I say just get through this season the best you can. Put the soon-to-be-ex and daughters in charge of the stupid ham. Get the deli kind if they drop the ball. In the future, make it clear that adult guests in your home clean up after themselves.

 

Clearly, you have much bigger problems than the state of your house. However, if you can't get ANY respect for your feelings or help maintaining the home that everyone enjoys, I completely understand why you need to make a drastic change in your life. Adults should not be acting like messy children and treating you like a live-in maid.

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In defense of your daughters. No matter how old we are when my sister and I walk into mom's house we instantly revert to behaving like 6 year Olds. Call them on the behavior and have them pitch in.

 

If your husband wants a 7 fishes dinner he can darn well make it himself. You are working full time and should not be guilted into preparing a meal that creates a lot of extra work for you.

 

I need to state - not all are like this. I have one who may (or may not) need to be reminded to put it away, but I have another who will automatically start cleaning something.  

 

college students are notorious for being slovenly - and they do need to be held accountable.  they aren't infants.  they want to be treated like adults - they'd better act like adults.

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Sometimes I literally feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone and need perspective.

 

My two daughters (ages 21 and 19) came home from college this weekend. I always make sure the house is clean when they come home because, in my opinion mind you, it just feels nicer to walk into a clean home. I also spruce up their rooms so they have clean sheets etc. This year I did a little extra thing: I had just stayed over night in a really nice hotel and for turndown service they left a bottle of water, a glass, and a little chocolate by the bed with slippers. I set up my daughters' rooms like that cuz I thought it would be cute.

 

Two days into them being home the house was a disaster. Dishes piled high in the sink, dishwasher full of dirty dishes, stuff strewn everywhere. I (calmly, because they always accuse me of over-reacting) asked if we could all pitch in and try to keep things clean. I got a lukewarm reaction to that.

 

Monday night we all sat down to discuss Christmas Eve and Christmas day. My sister always sleeps over with my two nephews on Christmas Eve. I suggested for Christmas Eve I would make a stew that everyone loves and grill up ham and brie sandwiches. My husband suggested I get a ham, roast it, then slice it for the sandwiches instead of going for deli ham. I say this because this is the level of food he wants. He loves the whole "7 fishes" thing and gets all put out when I don't do that. Mind you, I work a full time job! So all this Christmas prep has to happen after work etc. and mostly falls to me.

 

Ok, so that is the background. Last night I come home from work at 7:00 p.m. Tuesdays I work an 11 hour day. No one is home. Both girls are out with friends. My husband is at the gym. All the lights are on. The tv in my husbands office is on. All the heat zones are set to 70 degrees because my daughter says she is always cold. 70 degrees in my house gets very warm (its a big house - it takes a lot to heat it but it does heat up fast.) There is stuff (coats, water bottles, laptops, sweaters, socks, pocketbooks, car keys) strewn everywhere. The dishwasher, which I started before I left for work at 8:00 a.m., is not emptied. The couch cushions are all hanging half on/half off the couch - I guess the Christmas tree fell over, getting needles everywhere, so they vacuumed, but the vacuum was still out in the middle of the room and the couch was a mess. Ornaments that had fell off the tree were just haphazardly on the couch.

 

I literally could've cried. My daughters and husband spent the day going out for breakfast and getting their individual Christmas shopping done. They had a nice day and then just all took off for their individual fun things.

 

I tried to talk to my husband this morning about it. He said I need to "adjust my expectations" and "not be so uptight" about things. How do I be okay with the house being a disaster but still "roast a fresh ham to then make the sandwiches for 7 people" after working that day? How do I ensure that we have ornaments from when the kids were young to pass down to their kids but be ok with those ornaments being tossed all over the couch? How do I relax when I will have company sleeping over and eating for 3 days?

 

My husband and I are in the middle of getting divorced. It has been very amicable but at this point I have given up on trying to change his perspective -- he will always be who he is.

 

But when I try to say something to my kids I get so much push-back about being too uptight, that no one cares if they house is clean but me so I should just calm down blah blah blah.

 

So, hit me with it. Am I expecting too much? Should I not be upset?

The answer to the bolded parts is simply to prioritize 3 ways: A. for "wants" (yourself above others), B. for "needs" (others above yourself), C. for everything (people above stuff).

 

Either be ok with the house being a disaster, because it's good hospitality to messy guests, OR be ok with cleaning for your own comfort because it comforts you, and you alone (even though it's extra work and not really fair) OR be ok with setting boundaries (or make demands) about *your* space for your *own* comfort and hearing words that express push back about it (It's only words, and you can work on not letting people insult you... ask for ideas if you want to choose this option.)

 

DO NOT roast fresh ham. The person who does the work gets to set the expectation levels and the method. You matter. You aren't going to roast ham. If some other individual wants roasted ham, they know where the oven is.

 

If they don't care for ornaments, there's no reason for you to care for ornaments. Don't let stuff-stuff erode good relations.

 

Relax through self care. Make it matter. It's your holiday too. In fact, it might be "mostly" your holiday. (It doesn't sound like others are very serious about it, so try aiming your efforts at making it seriously good for yourself.)

 

Release the idea that eating and sleeping are difficult things that need to be done in an excellent fashion. They are, in fact, really simple tasks that can be done really really slap-dash and still be fine. Do "more" if you like and value doing more... if you are stressed and unhappy about possibly doing more that's not "liking and valuing" doing more. If you like and value it, it makes you happy. If it makes you angry, if it's about 'meeting expectations' it's not worth it... people can just learn by experience to expect less.

 

You are expecting things that aren't expect-able (for people to spontaneously be wonderful when they have a history of being inconsiderate), so it's not "reasonable" (meaning "logical") to expect anything different unless something changes in the situation. And you can expect people to resist change. But, yes, that's upsetting -- and not just to people who are 'too sensitive'. Reality *is* upsetting, and your feelings matter.

Edited by bolt.
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(Hugs) and more (hugs)

 

You are not being too sensitive.

 

I'd go on survival mode.

 

Less expectations and disposable plates etc with the exception of the 'official' Christmas meal(s).

 

Dh was an adult when his parents split and it had a big effect on him...I wouldn't doubt your kids are affected. I'd drop their junk in their rooms and not worry about their rooms being tidy right now.

 

(Hugs)

 

Eta: I'm not suggesting divorce is an excuse for adult kids to be slobs but if this is out of character being upset could be a contributing reason.

Edited by happi duck
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I'd be pissed off too.  They are being very rude.  But I suspect they won't understand that anytime soon (not until they are in a similar situation).  So I'd just stop flipping trying so hard.

 

If your husband wants a fancy holiday dinner, then he can help cook it.  Otherwise, do what is doable for you.

 

 

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:grouphug: You are not overreacting.

 

I just want to add my two cents and agree with those who said:

 

-let your dh roast his own ham

-put the ornaments away

-tell your adult daughters to act like adults and clean up after themselves

-tell your soon to be xdh to adjust his expectations

-make the stew you wanted to make and get the deli ham

 

Personally I wouldn't be too bothered about the coats and any of their personal items. However, I'd expect anyone who dirties dishes to wash them (or put them in the dishwasher if you have one). That's just me though. I can't stand walking into a dirty kitchen that I know was clean when I left it, and we haven't had a meal since it was last cleaned.

 

 

Edited by Lady Florida
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Hugs OP that sounds tough. I don't think you are being too sensitive. Forget the ham, buy deli meat and enjoy a little less stress. If your dh wants ham he can make it. Put the ornaments away or even throw them out, why should you save them for your kids if your adult children don't care enough about them to take care of them.

 

As for the cleaning, that is a tough one. From the description of what you did for your dd's rooms it does sound you have much higher expectations of organization than they do. Since it is everyone's house I would say you need to meet them in the middle somewhere. So don't expect it to be spotless but they also shouldnt be wrecking the place. But at this point in your lives I'd wait to address that until the divorce is final and you don't share a house with dh anymore.

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You are expecting others to change their behavior when what needs to happen is you need to change yours.  People use doormats.  They don't even think twice about using something for its intended purpose.  You are acting like a doormat when you should be more of a bouncer.  Before you speak, ask yourself how a bouncer would react to unreasonable demands? Club destruction? Refusal to follow rules?  And then frame your responses accordingly.  'No' is NOT a dirty word!  It is lovely, a way to protect your well-being and inner peace.  Start collecting personal belongings in laundry baskets to station outside their doors.  Refuse to bend over backward.  TAKE TIME TO MEET YOUR NEEDS.  Give the other people in the house direct expectations instead of asking them to comply because they want to do it for you.

 

Christmas is a lovely time of year and it's often the time when the burden of preparation falls on the mom in the family.  It doesn't have to be.  You deserve joy, and peace, and happiness.  You deserve to feel loved - by you.  It is not fair to you or anyone else in the house to take on the burden and then be unhappy about it. 

 

 

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I am reminded of Mrs. Piggle Wiggle.  Remember the kids who wouldn't take a bath so they just let them get dirtier and dirtier?  I think they spinkled seeds on the kids and the seeds sprouted.  The kids learned their lesson.  No nagging.  Just consequences of their grossness.

 

I know it's super obnoxious to you with the house being like it is, but it is their mess.  Step around it, shove things out of the way if they are in your path, but don't clean it.  

 

And don't cook a whole ham for sandwiches, my goodness!  You are not a doormat!  

 

When the girls go back  to school, you can throw all their crap in their rooms and close the doors.  Then you can tidy up the living room.  Or for that matter, if you really can't stand it, throw all the crap in their rooms now.  They can deal.  They really need to stop being so uptight about the crap in their rooms.  

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My parents split when I was an adult and I never would have treated either parent this way. That is not a valid reason to be slovenly.

 

It's okay to tell them to pick up after themselves. If they say lighten up, they are being rude. You have more guests coming, and they are destroying your house. Tell them so. Expectations for cleaning haven't changed just because your adult children are away most of the time.

 

I prefer a level of neatness higher than others around me, so I've resigned myself to straightening the common areas. I dump anything that isn't mine in the offending person's room. If their rooms are a wreck when guests arrive, I would close the door.

 

As for soon-to-be-ex, boo to him. Get the deli slices. Don't put yourself out making a ham.

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I don't think you are too sensitive at all.  I think your family is taking advantage of you.  If it were me (granted, I am in the throes of SAD and the cumulative effects are peaking right around Christmas), I would go on strike and cancel Christmas.  Tell them that, if they want a Christmas, they will do X, Y, and Z.  That means, cleaning the house until it is spotless, grocery shopping is done and whatever that needs to be done for company visit is completed.  Then, they can expect you to participate and cook for Christmas.  Otherwise, they all can take a flying leap.

 

(I have to admit that, I was very tempted several times last week to hop a flight to Florida and stay on the beach until my business account ran out of money and tell everyone else to FITFO.  And my family has not been nearly as rude as yours, but we have some extra special stress of a young adult with mental illness.) 

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I don't think you are being too sensitive. This is a family dynamic that benefits them. (I don't believe for one minute that they would like living in filth). They have developed this dynamic over time and you are not going to change it this Christmas. I struggle with this with my oldest dd also. She come home for the holidays and leaves a walking disaster EVERYWHERE, and says I'm too uptight. Dh is happy she is home and doesn't care if she cleans up after herself, he won't clean up after her either, he just waits for me to do it, and also says no one cares but me if things are messy. How do I know that is not true? Oldest dd lived with us for a few weeks a couple of years ago and the part of the house she was in was a HUGE disaster. She kept it hidden from me and hung out in the part of the house I was keeping clean. So she didn't want to hang out in her mess, she wanted to hang out in my clean area, but she didn't want to clean up after herself.

 

I think you are going to have to work on yourself not getting in this situation more than you have to. When you are getting divorced you are certainly under no obligation to make fancy food for someone. He was home all day and could have made it himself. You are going to have to move into a new era of life where you are your own keeper, and he is his. Change is very hard. I know. I am sorry.

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Damn you ladies are good!!

 

For everyone who said "let him roast his own ham!" - that made me smile so thank you!

 

I like the overall advice of realizing that my standards are a bit high and therefore I should expect to do more on my end, but also relax my standards a bit for a bit more of a cluttered house when my kids are home. That way I don't feel so disrespected but I also wont make them so crazy of smaller things.

 

I love them and really want to enjoy this holiday season so I have to set my sights on that.

 

 

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Well if they are going to act like little kids, I would play along.

 

Three laundry baskets. As I clean up each room (which I would do, muttering, but for my own sanity and the sake of coming houseguests), their stuff goes in a laundry basket. Then those baskets get set out in the garage. Let them play a little hide and seek. Maybe passive aggressive but order restored.

 

As for the ham, are you serious??? Inform soon to be X that you will be making sandwiches. If he bakes the ham, you will use it. Otherwise you will be using deli ham. End of discussion.

 

I don't think you are being too sensitive. However, I do think you're approval seeking and trying to please people in a way they don't/won't/can't appreciate.

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I can't get past the ham.

 

I am sorry the family dynamic is the way it is. You are not being overly sensitive. You deserve common courtesy. It sounds as though nothing you do will be good enough.

 

I would mentally prepare for a less than ideal holiday. Someone else can stop by 7 eleven for sandwiches.

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You should not make the ham. 

 

That said, different people have different standards. Keys, purses, etc around the house are not a disaster to me. It's not even a mess to me. It's just lived in. Couch full of ornaments not an issue to me. On the floor, yes. Piled on the couch to put on the tree later, meh. Cushions pushed around? Easily fixed, not a disaster. 

 

A disaster is what myhouse looks like with little kids dumping toys, food, drinks, etc everywhere while the cats and dogs shed like crazy. So they may not realize this is a mess. They may not see it as a mess. And, you may have developed higher standards of cleanliness since they moved out to go to college. You got used to it being less lived in looking, with less people there. They got used to lower standards, being at college. Together, that makes for a clash of standards. 

 

Add in that people aren't helping, and yeah, I get being frustrated. But don't take your girls' actions personally. Tell everyone you are overwhelmed, and make of list of what needs to be done and sit down together and figure out who is doing what, and when. Hve it in writing on the refrigerator. Put soon to be Ex on ham duty. 

 

 

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Sigh, this totally bites.

 

I debate the question of chores internally a lot.

 

On the one hand, I want DD to want to come home.

 

On the other, I think everyone should pitch in.

 

And also I know how it is to move out of somewhere and kind of forget the expectations a little, or they shift some.  For instance, when I lived with my parents we always put our coats in the notch between the upstairs bannister and the post when we came it.  As an adult, I did that once, and my dad actually yelled at me that I should take my coat upstairs, how could I be so inconsiderate?  So apparently either they changed, or this habit (that, again, EVERYONE did) always bothered them but they never said anything about it before.  That was OTT and unreasonable.  And him yelling about it because my mom was pissed off but didn't want to say anything herself was ridiculous.  Plus it was unclear where to put it upstairs, since I didn't have a bedroom there anymore, and HE didn't know (because again this was my mother's issue, not his, but of course she was never in the convo), so no matter what I did it was going to be wrong.  After a bunch of stuff like that over the years I just plain started to feel unwelcome there.  I don't want to be that kind of parent!

 

So what I do is, last summer when DD came home I told her that we are working really really hard to pay for her college, and we expect her to either work, go to school, or seriously pitch in at home during the summer.  That was a bit of a rocky conversation, but at least I established expectations.

 

Now I put her stuff into her room when I find it around.  And if I have a chore to do (like the dishwasher) I position it as, if you feel inclined to pitch in for the household you could hang up the clothes that I'm fluffing up in the dryer.  The hangers are right there.  She rarely does this kind of stuff right away, but she tends to get around to it, particularly if I don't nag.  I am willing to carry more of the load right now because I want her to want to be home.  After all, we are transitioning to her being a guest here, and nice guests pitch in, but whether they do or not I'm always glad to have them. 

 

In your case, I would not do the damn ham.  (What a jerk your husband is.)  And I wouldn't argue about it, either.  I'd just say, no, that won't work for me.  If you want a ham, you can cook it yourself, it's up to you.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  But I also probably wouldn't give the girls much of a hard time.  I'd move their stuff to their rooms, and be a sunny cheerful personality the whole time, and go and talk to them about favorite Christmas memories or something, and carve out some good memories.  Maybe I'd make a list of what needed to be done that day, and say, hey, how about picking out something on the household list to help with?  This is such a busy time of the year!  And if I had to buy some of the dinner stuff already premade, so be it. 

 

 

Edited by Carol in Cal.
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Say something. Thy aren't mind readers and chances are if they knew this was upsetting you they'd pitch in and help, but without being told they just aren't thinking about the state of the house.

 

I'd be flipping out about the lights and heat - one light is fine. But the whole house?!

 

And let your husband deal with the ham.

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I would be upset too, but it doesn't do you any good to dwell on it. You can't control their behavior, but it might help if you tell them explicitly what you want them to do to get the house ready for company. Giving my girls a checklist is more effective than just telling them to straighten up the living room or whatever. If it were me, I would probably handle it by passive-aggressively cleaning the worst parts to make the house company-ready and not speak to anyone. (Not saying that's the right way to handle it, but realistically that's what I'd do.) I would, however, stick with your original plan for the ham or tell DH how to do it if it's so important to him. He's an adult. It's not rocket science to roast a ham while you're at work. 

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I agree, he should cook his own ham.  He has a lot of nerve asking you to do that.  Also, what I tell my teenage boys, if they want to eat, they better get the kitchen cleaned up.  I actually won't cook until it is cleaned up.  As for all the stuff lying around that belong to your daughters, I would gather it up and either dump it all on their beds or in the middle of their floor.  If on their beds they would have to clean it off before they could sleep in it. 

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I get that you need to have realistic expectations for things, I am working on that myself.  However, I have LITTLES.  If I came home after working an 11 hour day and then had to deal with picking up after ADULTS!?!?!?!   I love the idea of dumping their stuff on their beds.  If they want to be slovenly in their rooms, so be it, but not in MY HOUSE!    When I went home during break through college things were very similar to when I lived there.  I had about 2 days of relaxation and then was included back in the chore rotation.  I was living there.  People all work together when they live together.  

I also don't get the concept of  "If no one else cares about the mess, let it go."  Why does the person who doesn't like it messy have to let it go?  Why can't everyone else pitch in a little bit, knowing that it's a very small way to show they care about the other persons feelings?

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My initial reaction would have been extreme frustration. You worked hard to make things nice and when you got home from working 11 hours, all your work was undone. That's your POV.

 

From the girls' POV, they're on vacation and want to relax. People don't want to clean on their vacation. They weren't being messy on purpose. They're in vacation-mode. I'm in vacation mode right now. It's 1:30 and I haven't showered or done anything. I've played on my ipad since 9:00.

 

From your DH's POV with the ham, he just said what he wanted. Did he demand it or ask it or just suggest it? He might have just been contributing to the conversation of how to handle the food. I'm not clear on whether he demanded it or just tossed the idea out there, "How about a real ham instead of deli?"

 

 

Also, from your DH's POV, you guys are getting divorced. You can't trust anything he says about your character. He's gearing himself up for the relationship to be over. When people do that, they only focus on the negative about the other person (real or not) to justify to themselves why they don't want to be with that person anymore. He's an unreliable narrator.

 

Going forward:

 

The lights: remind people to turn them off going forward. Don't mention the past. Just, "Remember to hit the switch when you leave the room. Thanks."

 

The heat: No. I get cold, too, and I wear a robe over my clothes and sometimes pop on a cute hat in the house. I warm right up. She needs to pop on a robe and hat unless she will pony up the money for the heat. Your house, you set the temperature. Period. Tell her, "Don't adjust the heat. Put on some layers. It costs too much if the heat is up."

 

Chores: Hand them out. Jot them down and give them the lists, "Sometime before dinner, can you do these things: .. " Don't make the list too crazy. They are on vacation after all, but you still need to keep some order in the house. Give them the time of when the chore needs to be done.

 

In the future, if you're at work and they're home, give them a little list before you leave. "Hey, before I get home, can you empty the dishwasher and hang up the stuff in the dryer and tidy up any clutter you might make before I get in? Thanks." DO NOT expect them to do this on their own. They will need to be asked.

 

General messes: If you've asked them to tidy their clutter that's strewn throughout the house and they don't, gather it up and put it in their rooms. No speeches, not guilt. Just shove it out of your way into their room.

Edited by Garga
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I don't think you are too sensitive at all.  I think your family is taking advantage of you.  If it were me (granted, I am in the throes of SAD and the cumulative effects are peaking right around Christmas), I would go on strike and cancel Christmas.  Tell them that, if they want a Christmas, they will do X, Y, and Z.  That means, cleaning the house until it is spotless, grocery shopping is done and whatever that needs to be done for company visit is completed.  Then, they can expect you to participate and cook for Christmas.  Otherwise, they all can take a flying leap.

 

 

I have to agree, Cancel Christmas.

Pack up the Christmas ornaments.

Pack up the dishes and silver so they can't continue to wreck the kitchen.

Celebrate out with your sister and her kids.

Have your husband adjust his expectations.

Tell your daughters you have decided to no longer be uptight.

Good luck

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Okay, I haven't read every single response, but are we basically in agreement that if he wants ham, he can bake it himself, and if she bakes it for him, we're going to go to her house and beat her over the head with it for caving in to his ridiculous and selfish demands? ;)

 

All I know is that based on this one example, I can already understand why she is divorcing him.

 

But one thing, Home'scool -- if he is this obnoxious about a stupid baked ham and thinks he can tell you what to do, I hope you have a very good divorce attorney who will work hard to protect your interests. I am concerned that things may only be amicable right now because you are walking on eggshells around him and he is getting his way. Please make sure that your kindness isn't being mistaken for weakness and that you don't get cheated in the settlement. :grouphug:

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No disrespect intended, but the ham issue is kind of funny to me. One year my dh also suggested roasting a ham because he wanted something different but still "special". But he knew when he suggested it that he'd be the one cooking it. ;)

 

Hugs to you and I hope you find a way to have a peaceful holiday in spite of the difficulties. :grouphug:

 

 

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Didn't read the replies yet.....

 

I was reading your post and started to cry bc I can see that with my own kids 10-15 yrs from now.  So, NO!!  I don't think you are being too sensitive.

 

But I think you are being too giving!  I am not as nice as you so I would have walked out, gotten myself a nice dinner out and called it a day

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I think you sound like a delightful hostess. Really.

 

Here's the thing and no disrespect meant at all -- training the girls to do chores fairly automatically had to happen a long time ago. My two boys are 12 and I'm regretting that I didn't have them "helping" more at six year of age. They automatically do dishes because I've insisted on it for years.

 

I think your daughters are going through a stage. You're "mom" and home is where they're cared for. At this point -- w/ the divorce and everything -- I'd just let it go and make things as nice as you can . . . for yourself. Do what matters to you and drop the rest.

 

Just a thought, but there may be some passive-aggressive stuff going on b/c of the divorce. If not, it may be that there's a lot of grief nobody wants to discuss.

 

Personally, I would chillax -- as my kids say. I'd have a nice glass of wine (or two) and say, "Hey, this ham won't make itself." Maybe give specific directions to each daughter rather than hoping she figures it out. (I bet they'll apologize once they have kids.)

 

Alley

Edited by Alicia64
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I had to wonder if you are the one responsible for all the household bills- that the lights and heat and tv would be left on that way? To me, that is shocking as it is such a drastic "no" in our house due to finances.

 

If so, I am so sorry.

 

I also concur that you should seek to get through this holiday as best you can based on going through a divorce.

 

I also imagine you must be exhausted. 

 

FWIW, I would have been thrilled with the special treatment you gave your girls for their homecoming. 

 

 

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This sounds like a difficult time for you, and it's probably to close to Christmas to do anything this time, but I think it's reasonable to be clear about what's expected to your daughters before they visit again and to offer a 'conditional invitation'.

 

Christmas celebrations were conditional around here this year, actually. After two Christmases where I felt I was fighting against the family to make it festive and family-orientated I offered a simple Christmas Day lunch and gifts or our usual series of family meals and activities from Solstice to Christmas if everyone pulled their weight and were willing and cheerful participants. They opted for the second and I've only had to remind them once or twice.

 

In your case, if they want you to do anything for Christmas they need to help you as asked. Or leave them to it and take your sister and nephews out to dinner.

 

You're not wrong to be upset.

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:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: :grouphug:  

 

I'm just responding without reading the other responses, but I have to say.....

 

The things you've described would upset me even under more usual circumstances. You are in the middle of a divorce. Even though it's amicable, it's still not easy. Of course you're feeling sensitive, and rightfully so.

 

You have given graciously and kindly of yourself, and are trying to please the people around you. I would bet that none of them understand the kind of effort it takes to make a home clean and welcoming, feed a crowd, decorate for a holiday. You're so good at it that they don't see it.

 

You sound like a lovely gracious person, and there's no reason to change that, so behave as lovingly and graciously as possible while setting some clear boundaries and expectations of your own. Make the plans that you make. Anyone who would like something different can take on that task. Do as much tidying as you're willing to do, and tell them to do the rest, politely and sweetly with the expectation that of course they want to help because no reasonable person would expect the entire burden to fall on you. Say things like, "Gosh, I don't have time to roast a whole ham. Would you like to take that on, or shall I go ahead and pick up some ham from the deli?"

 

I hope you pour yourself a glass of wine or a cup of tea and make sure to enjoy a part of the holidays with your dd's, even if it means that things stay a little messy or you end up eating crackers and cheese on Christmas Eve. I'm sending you hugs and wishes for peace.

 

 

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<snip>

 People all work together when they live together.  

I also don't get the concept of  "If no one else cares about the mess, let it go."  Why does the person who doesn't like it messy have to let it go?  Why can't everyone else pitch in a little bit, knowing that it's a very small way to show they care about the other persons feelings?

 

 

This is how I feel. There are things you do when you live in a "community" that you don't have to do when you live by yourself. OP, maybe phrase it as "These (name specific) rooms are community rooms, and they must be kept neat. Do what you will in your bedroom/personal/noncommunity space."

 

I don't know what to suggest about the thermostat. My dh has made it so clear that the climate controls are not to be changed without permission that my own kids wouldn't even think to adjust it themselves. (He responds to needs for change, but it is old and fussy and he knows how to make it work best.)

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Sometimes I literally feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone and need perspective.

 

My two daughters (ages 21 and 19) came home from college this weekend. I always make sure the house is clean when they come home because, in my opinion mind you, it just feels nicer to walk into a clean home. I also spruce up their rooms so they have clean sheets etc. This year I did a little extra thing: I had just stayed over night in a really nice hotel and for turndown service they left a bottle of water, a glass, and a little chocolate by the bed with slippers. I set up my daughters' rooms like that cuz I thought it would be cute.

 

Two days into them being home the house was a disaster. Dishes piled high in the sink, dishwasher full of dirty dishes, stuff strewn everywhere. I (calmly, because they always accuse me of over-reacting) asked if we could all pitch in and try to keep things clean. I got a lukewarm reaction to that.

 

Monday night we all sat down to discuss Christmas Eve and Christmas day. My sister always sleeps over with my two nephews on Christmas Eve. I suggested for Christmas Eve I would make a stew that everyone loves and grill up ham and brie sandwiches. My husband suggested I get a ham, roast it, then slice it for the sandwiches instead of going for deli ham. I say this because this is the level of food he wants. He loves the whole "7 fishes" thing and gets all put out when I don't do that. Mind you, I work a full time job! So all this Christmas prep has to happen after work etc. and mostly falls to me.

 

Ok, so that is the background. Last night I come home from work at 7:00 p.m. Tuesdays I work an 11 hour day. No one is home. Both girls are out with friends. My husband is at the gym. All the lights are on. The tv in my husbands office is on. All the heat zones are set to 70 degrees because my daughter says she is always cold. 70 degrees in my house gets very warm (its a big house - it takes a lot to heat it but it does heat up fast.) There is stuff (coats, water bottles, laptops, sweaters, socks, pocketbooks, car keys) strewn everywhere. The dishwasher, which I started before I left for work at 8:00 a.m., is not emptied. The couch cushions are all hanging half on/half off the couch - I guess the Christmas tree fell over, getting needles everywhere, so they vacuumed, but the vacuum was still out in the middle of the room and the couch was a mess. Ornaments that had fell off the tree were just haphazardly on the couch.

 

I literally could've cried. My daughters and husband spent the day going out for breakfast and getting their individual Christmas shopping done. They had a nice day and then just all took off for their individual fun things.

 

I tried to talk to my husband this morning about it. He said I need to "adjust my expectations" and "not be so uptight" about things. How do I be okay with the house being a disaster but still "roast a fresh ham to then make the sandwiches for 7 people" after working that day? How do I ensure that we have ornaments from when the kids were young to pass down to their kids but be ok with those ornaments being tossed all over the couch? How do I relax when I will have company sleeping over and eating for 3 days?

 

My husband and I are in the middle of getting divorced. It has been very amicable but at this point I have given up on trying to change his perspective -- he will always be who he is.

 

But when I try to say something to my kids I get so much push-back about being too uptight, that no one cares if they house is clean but me so I should just calm down blah blah blah.

 

So, hit me with it. Am I expecting too much? Should I not be upset?

 

 

Wow... And you didn't walk out of the house, go out for a nice dinner and a bottle of wine?  I'm amazed.  

 

Honestly?  I'd have come unglued but I'm not nice about these kinds of things.

 

I think a checklist for the teen daughters before they go ANYWHERE the ENTIRE time they are home on break is in order since they seem to have forgotten manners when in someone's home, even Mama's.  

 

It's weird. Kids go to college and come home like they've been raised by wolves and like rules didn't exist while they were gone.  My DD still lives at home while going to school and she sometimes forgets the rules still apply to her (don't leave your stuff everywhere) and needs a reminder.

 

Our conversations have gone something like this:

We are adults.  We want to have an adult relationship.  Adults have RESPECT for one another and one another's things.  I don't trash your room and expect you to be forced into one of two choices;

 

1. Look at my crap.

or

2. Clean my crap up.

 

You know why?  Because adults don't do that to one another.  

 

Please don't make me drop all of my laundry, keys, papers, books, water bottles, coffee cups, etc. in the middle of your room and make you live with it to prove my point.  It would make me feel like a jerk and you feel like a child and I think we've moved beyond this silliness and disrespect.

 

 

That's the end of the conversation.

 

(And this is where my husband steps in and says, "Your room is your room and you need to pick it up once a week but if you want to live with it a mess, that's fine.  But the rest of the house isn't your room, so you need to keep your stuff contained," in his calm, reasonable voice.  Frankly, you might want to go with his version.  Mine is actually more effective, but his is more with the Christmas season.  Just sayin'.)

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Okay, I haven't read every single response, but are we basically in agreement that if he wants ham, he can bake it himself, and if she bakes it for him, we're going to go to her house and beat her over the head with it for caving in to his ridiculous and selfish demands? ;)

 

All I know is that based on this one example, I can already understand why she is divorcing him.

 

But one thing, Home'scool -- if he is this obnoxious about a stupid baked ham and thinks he can tell you what to do, I hope you have a very good divorce attorney who will work hard to protect your interests. I am concerned that things may only be amicable right now because you are walking on eggshells around him and he is getting his way. Please make sure that your kindness isn't being mistaken for weakness and that you don't get cheated in the settlement. :grouphug:

 

This.

 

Take care of yourself emotionally and hire a good attorney.

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You have given graciously and kindly of yourself, and are trying to please the people around you. I would bet that none of them understand the kind of effort it takes to make a home clean and welcoming, feed a crowd, decorate for a holiday. You're so good at it that they don't see it.

 

I agree with this. I've seen this happen over and over. Someone works really hard to make something nice but the people who will be part of it have NO CLUE how hard it was to pull it all off and are unappreciative. They don't mean to be...they just don't get it. And if it's pointed out to them, they still don't always understand.

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Again, cracking up over the ham responses!! He really deserved a thunk on the head for suggesting that one.

 

Let me be clear: I never had any intention of cooking a ham to then slice to put into sandwiches! I would smack myself if I did haha. I have lived with him long enough to know that he always pushes super difficult food suggestions for holidays, like homemade raviolis or something like that. So no matter what I cook he is always there with "Yeah it was good, but maybe next time make blah blah blah."

 

That is one of the reasons we are getting divorced. Nothing is ever good enough for him. Everything has to be done to the extreme. That is fine if he wants to push himself like that and never be happy with himself, but I am moving on with life and no longer feeling "less than".

 

When he suggested I get a ham and then cook it, I said "How about I get a piglet, raise him until he is grown, slaughter him and then smoke the meat in a smoke house I will build myself!" I think he got the message that I wasn't doing it no way, no how.

 

I had lunch with my daughters today and said to them "I love having you home and want to really enjoy this time with you, so I will relax my standards a bit and not stress so much over the house if you guys try to just be more aware of not leaving things a mess." I think they heard me, but we will see when I get home! But on my end I do plan to try to relax a bit more, pick up stuff even if I want to explode, and just try to enjoy the short time they are home.

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