How to respond to my teen.

[kewb]

How is one to respond to their teen when you explain why going away with his girlfriend and her family this summer is not going to happen and their response to everything you say is "but why."

 

I totally devolved into a looney toon. I really don't want the last thing remembered about this conversation to be me schreeching "I don't actually owe you an explanation. The answer is no."

 

And before anyone gets on me on how I should not be so strict at the time this family vacation would happen he will be 17 and she will be 14. I am shocked her family invited him.

[Tap]

"Lets talk about it when it gets closer. I will think about it until then. Find out when the parents need to know by for me and I will give you my answer before that date."

[albeto.]

I tend to take for granted these kinds of questions are legitimate and sincere, and so I don't like to blow them off (which is how it feels to be on the receiving end of "I have spoken"). I would calmly explain why you think it's a bad idea. I would calmly explain the fears and worries and concerns you have, and let him listen to them. Let him see you have genuine reasons. Let him respond to those reasons (good communication skills - to be able to keep a conversation calm and productive is as important as communicating the points). That doesn't mean you have to let him talk you into it, and you can be honest about that upfront, but I would encourage you to take this seriously, and treat his requests with respect. That means calmly, compassionately, reasonably, and help him deal with the frustration that comes with a "No, honey" at the end of the conversation.

 

Good luck.

 

:)

[Tap]

DD was 15 and her boyfriend 15 when they first asked if he could go on vacation with us.  My first answer to them was "my instinct says no, but I will think about it." Over time, I came around to the idea and he ended up going with us for a week, twice, and her with him three times on overnights.  There were some very firm rules put into place and some serious consequences discussed if the rules were broken. All went well and it was a great time for everyone.

 

I totally understand saying 'no way, no how' though and fully support the idea of family vacations being for just family.  I also understand the age difference but that is really dependent on the maturity of the kids than anything. 

[Lady Florida.]

There's an age difference between my ds and his girlfriend, and I'd actually let him go with her family (and in fact he has done so). But that's not what you asked.

 

I do get the "But why?" when I've already explained why I said no to something. When he does that I try to rephrase my explanation. If he continues, I ask him what he doesn't understand, since I've already given my reasons. I don't do it in with a snarky attitude. If he's sincerely not getting what I'm saying, I want to say it in a way he does understand. I do allow him to make a case, but that doesn't always mean I'll change my mind. Sometimes he presents his case in such a way that I do decide my 'no' was unreasonable, and I give in to the request. Sometimes I don't.

 

If it turns out that "But why?" is really just a way to try and get me to change my mind (sometimes it is, sometimes he really doesn't get it), then I just tell him that I've already given my reasons and I'm done repeating myself.  I remind him that badgering me never brings him positive results. 

[ThisIsTheDay]

Gently. Show your heart and tell your real fears.  Don't get defensive. Be honest. Be real. Be compassionate. Don't get mad back just because they get mad. Don't take anything they say personally.  Have an honest and real conversation (repeating myself), even if you are the one doing the majority of honest and real.

 

Think about your goal, which (I would guess) is maintaining that relationship with your kid.

 

They still may not like your answer, but focus on your goal. See previous sentence.

[Tammi K]

How is one to respond to their teen when you explain why going away with his girlfriend and her family this summer is not going to happen and their response to everything you say is "but why."

 

 

With an answer that explains my reason, especially if this teen is the 16 year old in the sig line who will be 17 at the time of the vacation, because 17 is just one year shy of him being able to do as he pleases and I would want his reasoning to be more well thought out then, "I'm going to do X because now I'm old enough that you can't stop me!"

 

I would, gently, ask you why you are shocked that they asked him. Apparently you are okay with him having her as a girl friend. And, they are okay with it as well or they wouldn't have invited him. Why would you think they would be open to risque behavior.  Why would you assume their behavior would not be responsible? (I am assuming that is your issue but perhaps not.)

 

I would gently suggest you consider why you would not want to discuss what is obviously a strong opinion with an almost adult child. 

 

I would say to you, I hope you find a solution that feels right to both of you even if it is one that ultimately disappoints him. I would also say parenting isn't easy. :grouphug:

 

[kewb]

Thanks to everyone who has given their thoughts. I aksed because I knew I had jumped on to the apoplectic mountain of hyperbole when I was talking with him.

 

I have now calmly told him that as of right now the answer is no for the reasons already stated. However, his father and I are willing to revisit the issue in a few months when it gets closer.

 

Please, keep the advice coming. He is so different from me and half the time I am left thinking who is this person and where did my sweet baby boy go?

[kewb]

With an answer that explains my reason, especially if this teen is the 16 year old in the sig line who will be 17 at the time of the vacation, because 17 is just one year shy of him being able to do as he pleases and I would want his reasoning to be more well thought out then, "I'm going to do X because now I'm old enough that you can't stop me!"

 

I would, gently, ask you why you are shocked that they asked him. Apparently you are okay with him having her as a girl friend. And, they are okay with it as well or they wouldn't have invited him. Why would you think they would be open to risque behavior. Why would you assume their behavior would not be responsible? (I am assuming that is your issue but perhaps not.)

 

I would gently suggest you consider why you would not want to discuss what is obviously a strong opinion with an almost adult child.

 

I would say to you, I hope you find a solution that feels right to both of you even if it is one that ultimately disappoints him. I would also say parenting isn't easy. :grouphug:

 

I am actually not okay with him having a 14 year old girlfriend. As I explained to him at the time, his father and I would rather know about it then have him sneaking around. I am surprised that her parents are okay with their 14 year old dating my 16 year old. I don't want my 14 year old dd dating a 16 year old.

 

I was not brought up in a home where going away with your teenage boyfriend and his family was a thing. Nor were the boyfriends coming away with us. Family vacations are for family.

 

Other then a gut feeling of heck no I am taking advice here to heart and really thinking about what my real concerns are.

[Starr]

I wouldn't encourage a relationship at that age by vacationing together. I know one is supposed to be nice and all but I probably would have said something like, "you've got to be kidding!" 

[Joyofsixreboot]

I try to be very honest. I would explain all the reasons I feel it's a bad idea, listen to them tell me why I'm wrong and then explain that as a parent I trust them BUT I was once 17, the answer is still no and that I know kid is mad and we will deal with that. Accept they are angry and know it won't last forever. I accept that they will be grouchy, snarky, etc.

[Haiku]

I think that finishing the conversation as you did is fine. A 17 year old should never badger his parents with "but why" questions. That's the behavior of a four year old. He got the response he deserved.

[TammyS]

 

I totally devolved into a looney toon. I really don't want the last thing remembered about this conversation to be me schreeching "I don't actually owe you an explanation. The answer is no."

 

 

 

Actually, except for the screeching part, I think this is the perfect answer.  Unless he hasn't been paying attention for 17 years, he had to know this was going to be the answer, so he's NOT looking for an explanation, he's looking for an argument.  You should only ever answer "why?" when the kid actually wants an explantion.  99% of the time they don't, they want an argument.  Answering an invitation to an argument is not a kindness to you, or the kid. 

 

Next time, in order to do better, use the same words, but at a whisper, and then immediately turn and walk away.

 

 

[JFSinIL]

"If you have to ask, then you are not old or mature enough to understand the ramifications".  Also - "When you leave home and pay your own way, you can do what  you like. By then, though, you will understand why this is not a good idea."  Then discuss jail bait, etc.  Throw in your desire to NOT  not see him for an entire summer, possibly the last summer before he goes off to college etc.  If he persists in asking "Why not?" fire off with:

 

"If you keep arguing with me, you will lose XYZ privileges. This discussion is over. "

 

Is it possible to offer to take him to wherever the other family is staying as part of your vacation?  So he doesn't have to go the entire summer without seeing the girl?  Plus then you'd be there too, to hover....

[Haiku]

"When you leave home and pay your own way, you can do what  you like."

 

This is similar to what I would tell my arguing-just-to-argue teen: "When you have your own home and children, you can then correct all the mistakes I've made in raising you."

[Tammyla]

I haven't really thought this through, but I would be uncomfortable with the idea of her parents thinking this is a great idea to begin with.

 

 

(Oh, and you can say no for no good reason other than you think it's the right answer.)

 

 

[lauranc]

Thanks to everyone who has given their thoughts. I aksed because I knew I had jumped on to the apoplectic mountain of hyperbole when I was talking with him.

 

I have now calmly told him that as of right now the answer is no for the reasons already stated. However, his father and I are willing to revisit the issue in a few months when it gets closer.

 

Please, keep the advice coming. He is so different from me and half the time I am left thinking who is this person and where did my sweet baby boy go?

 

I think you did the right thing by telling him that you're willing to revisit the issue in a few months.  Good plan.  I've found that just waiting a bit to see how things play out helps immensely when dealing with older teens.  By the time he's 18 he'll be doing what he wants.  It's hard to believe that-- and I know I didn't--- but he will.   So--- best approach IMHO is to hold back on answering or giving advice etc...    Wait it out a little bit.  See how things go.     Patience is key. (-:

[AmyontheFarm]

Is it possible that the girls parents said yes, so they wouldn't look like the bad guys and are secretly praying you will say no?  Where are they travelling?  What are the laws there about consent, etc?

[kewb]

Is it possible that the girls parents said yes, so they wouldn't look like the bad guys and are secretly praying you will say no? Where are they travelling? What are the laws there about consent, etc?

I did have that very thought that they are permissive so someone else can be the bad guy. We don't know this family at all. I met the father once for 15 minutes and have never met the mother.

 

On the upside, they do seems to like my son. Glad he uses his manners somewhere.

[unsinkable]

This.

 

 

Or perhaps not.

[albeto.]

I did have that very thought that they are permissive so someone else can be the bad guy.

Speaking as a permissive parent, we don't usually throw our kids to the wolves just to avoid being the bad guy. Sometimes, the wolves just aren't there.

 

;)

[Seasider]

Does your son not have a job, or not have need of a summer job? My teens have to think very hard about taking time off work. It's for special breaks, like traveling with their *own* family! The need to ask time off is a huge point of pause.

 

And personally, I feel like many others. At 14, if my dd brought along a friend, it would not be a significantly older boyfriend (no matter how nice he is, as your son may be, OP!).

[Lady Florida.]

I did have that very thought that they are permissive so someone else can be the bad guy. We don't know this family at all. I met the father once for 15 minutes and have never met the mother.

 

On the upside, they do seems to like my son. Glad he uses his manners somewhere.

 

That could be the difference between me allowing my son to go on vacation with his girlfriend's family, and you not allowing yours. We've known her family for 10 years.

[Paige]

He's 17? I would be totally honest about appearances, sexual behavior, and that the whole thing is inappropriate and would damage his image as a really nice guy in your community. I would remind him that when he's 18 and she's 15, that he will need to doubly protect his reputation and watch his behavior because she is jail bait. I was 14 and dating an older boy and totally thought it was ok and people were ridiculous, but I can see now that I was an idiot. I don't know what anyone could have said to make me understand because I was completely headstrong and sure of myself, but maybe I'd have listened if someone had tried to be really, really clear about specific reasons it was a bad idea. Just saying, "No. because I said so," wouldn't (didn't) make an impact. It made me think they were out of touch and insensitive. 

[kewb]

He's 17? I would be totally honest about appearances, sexual behavior, and that the whole thing is inappropriate and would damage his image as a really nice guy in your community. I would remind him that when he's 18 and she's 15, that he will need to doubly protect his reputation and watch his behavior because she is jail bait. I was 14 and dating an older boy and totally thought it was ok and people were ridiculous, but I can see now that I was an idiot. I don't know what anyone could have said to make me understand because I was completely headstrong and sure of myself, but maybe I'd have listened if someone had tried to be really, really clear about specific reasons it was a bad idea. Just saying, "No. because I said so," wouldn't (didn't) make an impact. It made me think they were out of touch and insensitive. 

 

Thank you for sharing your experience.  I have talked with him about all of the things you have mentioned.  Right down to the statutory rape.  His response "Nothing is going to happen.  Her parents like me."

 

I ended on the "Because I said so" because he was being so obstinate that I finally lost control of myself.

 

 

[JFSinIL]

Also, since those other parents seem clueless, add "If they won't act like parents, then I will. I would NOT allow a daughter of mine to invite her much older boyfriend along for the summer. "

 

Sounds like you have to be the responsible parent for BOTH teens!

[Seasider]

I don't want to make assumptions, but the vehemence of his request and the refusal to listen to your reasonable concerns may indicate that their relationship is already more involved than is healthy for either of them at those ages.But maybe that's just me.

 

FWIW, I'm one of those girls whose parents let her vacation with an older boyfriend's family. I probably would have objected to the interference back then, but in hindsight, I *really* wish my folks would have confidently stepped in and said, "No, because we said so."  

[Elisabet1]

Tell him because it is inappropriate for a 17 yr old boy to go on vacation with a 14 yr old girl and you have no clue what his parents are thinking, but the answer is no.

[EmseB]

It's there any way you could have them over for dinner or something? If not to talk about the vacation, just to get to know them as important people in your son's life?

[Haiku]

We don't know this family at all. I met the father once for 15 minutes and have never met the mother.

 

That right there is the only reason you need to say no.

 

Have they not been dating long? Then there is no reason they should be making summer vacation plans. Teen romances are fickle.

 

Have they been dating a long time? Then why haven't the parents gotten to know one another? No way would I send my teen away on a trip with a family I don't know.

 

My dd had a friend in high school whose dad provided little supervision or guidance. He felt that his daughter would make the right decisions for herself. I guess she did, right down to being suspended from school several times, flaunting the fact that she didn't use birth control, getting pregnant right before graduation, dropping out of college, ending up working at a gas station, and losing custody of her child.

 

Luckily, we extracted our daughter from that friendship before things could go seriously wrong for our child.

[Joanne]

Rambling thoughts:

 

At his age, I'd avoid any form of "because I said so". I believe teens deserve an articulated, reasoned, reasonable answer. That might be elusive to formulate, unless you can already state the actual reasons. I would not entertain or allow badgering, but I would honor a request for reasons and discussion.

 

I think, also, that our "vacation culture" influences this. This thread shows a variety of thinking with regard to that. Some protect family vacations as family only. I don't share that, and feel that kids benefit when they can have peer company.

 

A nearly 3 year difference at that age would bother me in general. BUT if I "allowed" the relationship, I'd probably give serious thought to allowing them to spend time together on an invited, supervised, vacation.

[Ellie]

I wouldn't encourage a relationship at that age by vacationing together. I know one is supposed to be nice and all but I probably would have said something like, "you've got to be kidding!" 

 

This. A thousand times this. I am also surprised that her parents are allowing it.

[Ellie]

Thank you for sharing your experience.  I have talked with him about all of the things you have mentioned.  Right down to the statutory rape.  His response "Nothing is going to happen.  Her parents like me."

 

I ended on the "Because I said so" because he was being so obstinate that I finally lost control of myself.

 

And I don't blame you for the way you ended. You gave him all the mature adult reasons that what he wants to do is inappropriate, but he continued to childishly ask why, so he gets the answer a child would get.

[Valley Girl]

Maybe I'm thinking of something else, but was this the situation where there was not going to be any real supervision from the girl's parents?

[Murphy101]

Hell no.

 

Because it's crazy foolish and I apparently can't trust that her parents have any sense, so no, I'm not sending my minor to stay with them. And yes, there'd be a discussion about jail bait and that he will be 18 and old enough for prison soon.

 

But we would have had that discussion the day he mentioned she was 14 and worked at nipping it then. He might have lied about it, but a gal that he has to lie about is just another red flag of a problem.

 

I wouldn't say we would rediscuss it later because there is nothing more to discuss. These are the facts and unless she suddenly starts to age faster than him, nothing is going to change the final parental decision.

 

And I agree, if my son were that adamant, I'd question if there is more going on than I previously thought, so I'd be asking about that stuff too.

[Rebel Yell]

How is one to respond to their teen when you explain why going away with his girlfriend and her family this summer is not going to happen and their response to everything you say is "but why."

 

I totally devolved into a looney toon. I really don't want the last thing remembered about this conversation to be me schreeching "I don't actually owe you an explanation. The answer is no."

 

And before anyone gets on me on how I should not be so strict at the time this family vacation would happen he will be 17 and she will be 14. I am shocked her family invited him.

 

I think a soon-to-be 17yo actually *is* owed an explanation. Is it the age difference? Cost? potential to not get/lose a summer job due to the time off?  Conflict with another event- wedding, church picnic, whatever? You don't trust him/her/her family?

 

"No" is a perfectly good answer. But I think giving reasons is a good thing. I was never given reasons for all of the "No's" growng up- it did not serve me well when I was legally able to make decisions on my own. :crying:

[Katy]

"It's completely innappropriate.  The fact that you don't already know why is concerning." 

 

But why?

 

"Why do you think?"

 

(Some sort of completely ridiculous answer designed just to engage you in conflict).

 

"You are seventeen and you are not stupid.  Figure it out."

 

But why?

 

"Asked and answered."

 

But....  (random other irritating comment).

 

"Asked and answered.  No means no.  If you continue to harass me about this I'm going to assign you a paper on teen sex and teen parenting."

 

 

 

Yes, papers are frequently the way I end arguments.  If you want to argue at length or change my opinion, understand my side of the argument before you try to change my opinion.  Also, these are pass/fail papers.  If they don't include my side of the argument, they fail and have to write it again.   Also I've found that sometimes they are so emotional they can't properly communicate what's frustrating them, but if they take the time to write it down they frequently think through the silly things themselves, and make more cogent arguments about what is actually frustrating that they hadn't previously been able to express.  Also, I think some of them are going to be FASCINATING when they are adults...  hehehehehe

[kewb]

Different situation from that one. The other situation involved a weekend music festival.

 

To answer other questions mentioned:

they have been dating since September. By dating, thos involves hanging out at each other's homes and the occasional movie, along with constant texting and talking.

 

Yes, he works as a lifeguard during the summer and at this moment is quite willing to give up a weeks pay for a good time.

 

At this point in the relationship I have not made an effort to get to know the parents. I didn't think it would last this long.

[Katy]

Thanks to everyone who has given their thoughts. I aksed because I knew I had jumped on to the apoplectic mountain of hyperbole when I was talking with him.

 

I have now calmly told him that as of right now the answer is no for the reasons already stated. However, his father and I are willing to revisit the issue in a few months when it gets closer.

 

Please, keep the advice coming. He is so different from me and half the time I am left thinking who is this person and where did my sweet baby boy go?

 

You're not arguing with your sweet baby boy.  You're arguing with the hormones of a horny young man whose body wants to have as many babies as possible as soon as possible.   Until his mind is strong enough to overcome those instincts, just say no for him.  He might not get it until he has a daughter, but I guarantee he'll get it by the time she's 14.  And he'll thank you.

[MiMi 4under3]

"Because I don't want to put you in a situation where you have to make adult decisions, until you're an adult."

[Rebel Yell]

"It's completely innappropriate.  The fact that you don't already know why is concerning." 

 

But why?

 

"Why do you think?"

 

(Some sort of completely ridiculous answer designed just to engage you in conflict).

 

"You are seventeen and you are not stupid.  Figure it out."

 

But why?

 

"Asked and answered."

 

snipped

:svengo:

This is all assuming a 16-yo is thinking exactly like his mom. I did not think like my mom at 16.  I still don't at 45. :huh:

 

I just don't get this way of thinking- probably because I was the recipient of it growing up and it is not at all how I operate as aparent. 

 

WHile I might agree that a 17yo going on vacation w a 14yo isn;t the best idea (assuming they;re even still together then) who knows what he's thinking? It is insulting to him to assume that he has nefarious plans to 'tear up the hotel room' with her when all he;s thinking might be "Cool!  I hear Whatzit Beach has an AWESOME Maritime museum! Maybe I'll get to go deep-sea fishing, too!"

[foxbridgeacademy]

Hmmmm, I'd let my son go and I'd have DD's bf along on vacation but I think I'd want to know the parents well first in both scenarios.  But that's not what you asked.

 

I'd explain to your DS in explicit detail why you think it's a bad idea.  Then I'd tell him that you are willing to discuss it again when the time is closer.  During that time he can mull it over for himself.  Maybe you can come up with an alternate summer plan for them spending time together.

 

 

 

[Joanne]

You're not arguing with your sweet baby boy. You're arguing with the hormones of a horny young man whose body wants to have as many babies as possible as soon as possible. Until his mind is strong enough to overcome those instincts, just say no for him. He might not get it until he has a daughter, but I guarantee he'll get it by the time she's 14. And he'll thank you.

Wow. What horrible assumptions about this young man AND her parents.

 

Seriously; this is quite possibly the most insulting post regarding teens I have ever read on this board.

 

It is probable this young man enjoys her company, the parents like him, and appropriate supervision is a given.

 

I'm glad I don't reduced my young adult and teen boys to a raging set or hormones not able to live a full, holistic life.

[Katy]

:svengo:

This is all assuming a 16-yo is thinking exactly like his mom. I did not think like my mom at 16.  I still don't at 45. :huh:

 

I just don't get this way of thinking- probably because I was the recipient of it growing up and it is not at all how I operate as aparent. 

 

WHile I might agree that a 17yo going on vacation w a 14yo isn;t the best idea (assuming they;re even still together then) who knows what he's thinking? It is insulting to him to assume that he has nefarious plans to 'tear up the hotel room' with her when all he;s thinking might be "Cool!  I hear Whatzit Beach has an AWESOME Maritime museum! Maybe I'll get to go deep-sea fishing, too!"

 

You're right...  this would be after the NUMEROUS conversations we've had about subtext, things that are going on that a lot of people never catch on to, what children think vs what adults think about various situations..  In our family if a child was acting the way the OP's kid is, it would be because he's angry he's not getting his way, not for a lack of understanding.  OP has gone on about those details at length, son is in denial.

 

We have also had discussions about sex, and how you can think you're just making out and have it turn into sex so much faster than you thought it would, and get surprised by that.  So it's unwise to put yourself in a private situation where that might happen until you actually want it to happen.

 

Also, OP's son isn't denying that they are likely to have sex, he's just denying that the parents are likely to press statuatory rape charges "because they like" him.  So either OP's son's GF's parents are much more liberal about teen sex than OP is or they aren't thinking things through.  Either way, OP is the parent here, and she gets to make decisions about that sort of thing. 

[Haiku]

To answer other questions mentioned:

they have been dating since September.

This tells you a lot about the parents and their mindset. Their daughter is 14. She's had a boyfriend for almost four months, and they are planning to bring him along 6+ months from now.

 

Run away very fast.

[Katy]

Wow. What horrible assptions about this young man AND her parents.

 

Seriously; this is quite possibly the most insulting post regarding teens I have ever read o. This board.

 

It is probable this young man enjoys her company, the parents like him, and appropriate supervision is a given.

 

I'm glad I don't reduced my young adult and teen boys to a raging set or hormones not able to live a full, holistic life.

 

I think you're naive and don't understand the neuroscience of sex.

 

I'm certainly not saying his desire to be with her is consciously all about sex, but if you don't think the subconscious need to have sex and companionship isn't figuring prominently into his emotional need to go on this trip, you're naive.

 

And we all have hormones, whether we live in your idealized "holistic" life or not.

[Haiku]

And to add ... when I was a 14 year d girl I would have been righteously indignant if my parents (or a boyfriend's parents) would have said no to a situation like this.

 

Now that I am a parent, I can't even begin to express how grateful I am that my parents put the kibosh on several of my rather stupid idea.

[Joanne]

I think you're naive and don't understand the neuroscience of sex.

 

I'm certainly not saying his desire to be with her is consciously all about sex, but if you don't think the subconscious need to have sex and companionship isn't figuring prominently into his emotional need to go on this trip, you're naive.

 

And we all have hormones, whether we live in your idealized "holistic" life or not.

 

Oh, stop. The very fact that you are posting this to me demonstrates you have not read ONE post of mine on the topic of teens and sex and remembered my perspective and content.

 

Or any of my posts regarding neuroscience in general.

 

To call ME naive on this topic is absurd and insulting.

And "asked and answered" is developmentally inappropriate for a 16 year old.

[Haiku]

If there were any alternate universe where this situation were a good idea, how it would have gone down is the girl's parents would have contacted you guys privately to discuss it, not gotten your son all worked up about it before bothering to ask you. Now they look like the cool parents and you get to look like the mean, responsible ones. Another reason to have concerns about these parents.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't have much to add to what has already been said.  However, while I would be uncomfortable with a relationship between a 14 yo and a 16 yo, going on dates is a far cry from spending almost every waking moment together on vacation, and what sounds like a long vacation at that.  That constant proximity can create a sense of intimacy that is inappropriate for kids that young.