Will your daughters be too successful to homeschool?

[creekland]

ps  All but three of my students showed up for Stats (28 students in the class, all but one are seniors).  Compare this to 8 of 21 missing from junior/senior Alg.  How's that for controversy and statistics with bomb threats vs education.

 

 

[albeto.]

Overachiever! Who needs to read diaper boxes? That's what the pictures are for, right?

 

Psst, don't tell momto8blessings, but REAL moms use cloth diapers.

 

Just sayin'.

[creekland]

Psst, don't tell momto8blessings, but REAL moms use cloth diapers.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Alice won't have to worry about this (the backstory might be in the other thread - I'm old...ETA - this thread, post 29).  Her grandkids will be going au natural in the desert no less.

 

Talk about convenient planning!  (But she might need to gift them with sunscreen fairly often - or is that coconut oil?)

[SparklyUnicorn]

Just look at SWB.  I don't know how she does all of what she does, but she definitely has a lot going on along with homeschooling. 

 

 

[Amy in NH]

Just look at SWB.  I don't know how she does all of what she does, but she definitely has a lot going on along with homeschooling. 

 

I believe she has help from extended family.

[PrincessMommy]

Their husbands*. Obviously.

 

* Or wives.

 

This is probably what will happen with my oldest dd and her husband.  She has the career track that will most likely bring in the most money.  He is not particularly career driven...although he has 2 jobs.  They live in a high COL area and don't plan to move away at this point, so they need to plan accordingly.

 

To the OP -it can be a mixed bag.  I'm very glad my daughters are all going to college.  I regret never finishing and I hope they get a chance to do what they want.   I wanted to be a stay at home mommy.  But, not everyone does.

 

What I wish is that we'd thought a bit more about what kind of school was required for the type of career oldest dd has gone after (developmental biology).  In most of the bio fields you really need a PhD in order to get a decent job.  She doesn't want to stay in academia...will go into the private research sector (genetics is her specialty).  Anyway, it's *a lot* of school.  She got married right after she got her undergrad degree.  Now she's preggy with #2... and it's hard.  Very hard.   She's getting paid to get her PhD (yay) but it's not that much.  It certainly wouldn't pay for daycare...so myself and her MIL are sharing childcare responsibilities until she finishes...please Lord, let it be only 2more years!

[LucyStoner]

On a slightly more serious note, I attended the 60th birthday party of a close friend's mother this weekend. This woman raised 4 sons, who are now between the ages of lateish 20s to mid to late 30s (IIRC her oldest son is 36). As a homeschooling mom who has struggled to adjust my own definition of success and contentment, I found the event extremely and quite unexpectedly moving.

 

She met her husband in college and married on the young side.

 

She started homeschooling when her husband's job took them from our city to a small town (state name redacted to save any debates/untwist any panties) and the schools were really below her standards and her first son was coming home in tears because kids were actually making fun of him for doing his report on MLK. She continued homeschooling in part due to her third son being diagnosed with autism and school officials recommended institutionalizing him. She became a fierce advocate for kids with autism and cobbled together every resource she gap could to not only get him a quality high school education but also get him into college and help him learn life skills she was told he'd never have.

 

Her sons all have college degrees and 3 of them, including the one with autism, have advanced degrees. The oldest son does in fact stay home with his kids after following his wife's academic career around the world until she got a tenure track offer. The 2nd oldest has a daughter, is a paid news writer (no mean feat these days) married to a teacher and they both are hands on, loving, involved working parents. The third son with autism has a job in his field, is living on his own and came to the party holding hands with a sweet girl he's been seeing for a long time. The 4th son works for a major online company and seems engagement bound. Because her son with autism chose a profession that takes a long time to find work, this is only her second year with an empty nest.

 

She taught music lessons. She was/is an active community volunteer. Once all her kids were in college, she went and got her MDiv degree from a respected university. Her home is full of books, music, crafts and friends. This party, held in the same church hall her wedding reception was held nearly 40 years ago, was filled with people, all of whom totally love and admire this woman.

 

I would definitely call that success. It's not something everyone wants or can do, but it worked well for her and her family. I don't think her choosing to have a career would have made her more successful (or less successful for that matter).

 

ETA: I think I find her so inspiring because she rolled up her sleeves and did what needed to be done. She wasn't motivated by any ideology besides doing what was best for her family. She's also a dyed in the wool liberal and supporter of equal gender rights and it's nice for me to have a model of what homemaking and homeschooling looks without any shred of "this is what the women MUST do" stuff. I don't really care if that is what motivates others, but sometimes it's nice to see your own values in an exemplar.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

On a slightly more serious note, I attended the 60th birthday party of a close friend's mother this weekend. This woman raised 4 sons, who are now between the ages of lateish 20s to mid to late 30s (IIRC her oldest son is 36). As a homeschooling mom who has struggled to adjust my own definition of success and contentment, I found the event extremely and quite unexpectedly moving.

 

She met her husband in college and married on the young side.

 

She started homeschooling when her husband's job took them from our city to a small town (state name redacted to save any debates/untwist any panties) and the schools were really below her standards and her son was coming him in tears because kids were actually making fun of him for doing his report on MLK. She continued homeschooling in part due to her third son being diagnosed with autism and school officials recommended institutionalizing him. She became a fierce advocate for kids with autism and cobbled together every resource she gap could to not only get him a quality high school education but also get him into college and help him learn life skills she was told he'd never have.

 

Her sons all have college degrees and 3 of them, including the one with autism, have advanced degrees. The oldest son does in fact stay home with his kids after following his wife's academic career around the world until she got a tenure track offer. The 2nd oldest has a daughter, is a paid news writer (no mean feat these days) married to a teacher and they both are hands on, loving, involved working parents. The third son with autism has a job in his field, is living on his own and came to the party holding hands with a sweet girl he's been seeing for a long time. The 4th son works for a major online company and seems engagement bound. Because her son with autism chose a profession that takes a long time to find work, this is only her second year with an empty nest.

 

She taught music lessons. She was/is an active community volunteer. Once all her kids were in college, she went and got her MDiv degree from a respected university. Her home is full of books, music, crafts and friends. This party, held in the same church hall her wedding reception was held nearly 40 years ago, was filled with people, all of whom totally love and admire this woman.

 

I would definitely call that success. It's not something everyone wants or can do, but it worked well for her and her family. I don't think her choosing to have a career would have made her more successful (or less successful for that matter).

 

Thank you so much for sharing this!

[Erin]

I regret never finishing and I hope they get a chance to do what they want.   I wanted to be a stay at home mommy.  But, not everyone does.

Just to toss in, I always wanted to be a SAHM, too.  Finishing college had nothing whatsoever to do with that.  

I finished college so that I would have a useful degree that I could use before I had kids, after my kids were grown, or any time in the interim in case my husband was unable to support the whole family.  What if he dies, is permanently injured, leaves us for his secretary, etc?  

I finished college for the same reason I carry auto insurance; I might never need it, but if I do I could be in a world of hurt  without it.  

[LucyStoner]

Thank you so much for sharing this!

I need to figure out a nice way to tell her how much I admire her and what a huge blessing it is for me to have her as a role model, as a homeschooling parent to a son with autism.

[MomsintheGarden]

I have two still available.  One is literally too good to be true and some gal better appreciate him.  He may have one flaw in that he intends to go to med school and I understand that will come with long hours working - not to mention - one has to wonder if one can get away with anything in a household with a resident doctor...

We need to introduce your ds to my dd. After they got over being mortified, I think they would find they had a lot in common. :)

 

Seriously, I have told all of my children that I do not expect them to make the same choices that their dad and I have, and that I will not take different choices as a personal attack. Bfeeding, diapering, parenting, education, etc. From what I've seen, pressuring your children to live up to your standards is a great way to NOT be able to see your grandkids.

[creekland]

We need to introduce your ds to my dd. After they got over being mortified, I think they would find they had a lot in common. :)

 

 

We have toyed with a Hive matchmaking service before - mainly for college finances, but I could see other benefits coming out of it!

[kroe1]

Let me preface that this is for Creekland. Surely we can get a real controversy started.

 

So is homeschooling sustainable? After you give your daughters truly stellar educations, and skillfully guide them to awesome colleges and amazing careers, where they are deeply satisfied and well compensated, who is going to homeschool your grand kids? It seems to me that at least some portion of homeschooling is driven by smart women who have opted out of the workforce because working wasn't worthwhile. Will successful homeschooling create daughters who thrive in the workforce and then don't homeschool their kids?

Is this question for real? Do you think those in stellar jobs would not be able to homeschool?

 

 

Edited: okay, I see I am late to the party. Carry on.

[creekland]

Is this question for real? Do you think those in stellar jobs would not be able to homeschool?

 

Read the first post here first:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/533513-someone-start-a-controversial-thread-for-me/

 

The Hive is awesome!  They've made this day fly by for me.  (But I do have to be heading off to pt in about 10 minutes sadly.)

[Liz CA]

One is not mutually exclusive of the other. I had a ob/gyn with three young children. She split working hours with two other female ob/gyns and they all got to spend time with their children. One of them may have worked one or two days, others night. It was juggling to be sure but you can make it work.

Life comes in phases. I am now getting back into my field with additional seminars and clinical intensives. I could not have done this during homeschooling. I do not believe in multi-tasking on a grand scale. I could not have been a mother and paid full attention to my child and worked in the demanding field I am in now. BUT I can do it in sequence - not concurrently.

 

As far as controversy goes, I am now wondering if these doctors/mothers were able to keep up with the math homework...

I think we also need to know how they treated shopping carts and if they had time to bake cupcakes!

[AimeeM]

I don't think (but good choice of topics, lol!).

I'll homeschool my grands if my children want to :) Otherwise, I trust that my daughter will make the best decision she can. To be frank, no matter how awesome an education she is receiving at home, she doesn't care for homeschooling (but is a realistic child, and realizes that with her 2E needs, it is our only real option, so she doesn't really complain), so I doubt very much that she will want to personally homeschool her child, unless they fit a medical need for it, like my middle child does (and then I imagine she would ask me to do it, or cut back on work hours enough to do it herself).

 

I know many people who work in lucrative careers part-time. Our pediatrician is one of them - she only works a couple days a week.

[Dmmetler]

Sister wives. 😜

 

One of my father's colleagues (Organic chemistry professor who's husband was a geology professor) commented that what she needed was a wife :).

 

DD went through a phase when she said that she was never going to have children because she didn't want to give up her career. I realized, then, that a vast majority of the women she saw daily were highly educated professionals who had given up actively practicing their careers to raise children/homeschool. For a lot of us, it was something we did in the short term, but chose to keep doing in the long-term. A few work part-time, but rarely in their field.

 

Once she started meeting people who WERE professional women who had children (and when she realized that working with snakes usually let the animals stay at the lab, in the field, or in the zoo, and if you have any at home, they're pets-and she can hardly say that snakes as pets and kids are mutually exclusive), I stopped hearing those comments.

 

I'm not sure she'd choose to stay home and homeschool, but she might surprise me. Maybe she'll outsource homeschooling to grandma ;).

[Katy]

I didn't read everyone's response yet (I like to get my own thoughts out in this sort of topic before clouding my thoughts with other people's reasoning), but this is what I think...

 

I had a pretty great education, and am striving to add to my education constantly.  I don't see what I'm doing as a waste of my education.

 

I want my children (of either gender) to be well educated and confident in their ability to know themselves and their options enough to pursue whatever it is that they want to pursue.  I caution them about some options because I think lifestyle should be a very important consideration when it comes to work.  I don't buy into the ideology that homeschooling is a waste of my life, if I did I'd find a high paying job and use all my salary to send my kids to an expensive boarding school.

 

If daughters (or sons) want to work part time or work from home to homeschool, or hire tutors (OR have ME) homeschool their children and those are viable options for them, that's great.  I'm not trying to live vicariously through them, I want them to do whatever it is that makes their hearts sing, whatever it is that they are called to do.  If that's work in a high powered career, that's amazing.  But I don't think it's any less amazing to throw yourself into being an amazing parent, as long as it is something you choose and not something thrust upon you.

 

I think kids are resilient, and I think that generally they are happy when their parents are happy. I also think homeschool is the best educational option for us at this time,  but that doesn't mean public or private schools aren't better options for other families with other kids. I don't judge other mothers over those kinds of things and I don't expect I'll judge my children over those kinds of things. I'm raising them to make the right choices, and I trust both their ability and their willingness to do so.

[StephanieZ]

I don't think success has much to do with it. I have friends who stepped out of their careers for a time (a decade or two) or permanently or TBD whether it is permanent or not. Some of them, like me, are highly educated and could have had well paid careers but who stopped to be home with our kids early on, in our 20s, so before we were earning big $$. Some of them stopped practicing medicine, left Wall Street, physical therapy, or other lucrative careers in order to raise their kids. Some of these moms homeschool and others simply became SAHMs with kids in ordinary schools of one variety or another.

 

Some of these moms ultimately return to the workforce (in a very reduced earning capacity after a decades-long hiatus), but IME, most of us never return to seriously financially important work for our family, as our husbands' earning power has dwarfed ours so much that it seems (to all) a waste of family time and energy for the low-earning-power spouse to look at returning to work (for $$ . . . personal satisfaction is completely different) in our 50s when our husband earns many multiples of what we could realistically earn. And, of course, those in medicine or similar fields may have completely lost their ability to practice due to licensure, etc. 

 

I think the common denominator among the women I know who had great educations +/- lucrative careers before having kids but who, since having kids, either never seriously pursued a serious career or left lucrative ones . . . is a husband who is equally well educated and serious about his career and supportive of his wife's importance at home with their kids. Personally, I do remind my kids (girls and son) about the importance of having a well educated and career-minded spouse if they want the financial option to live as well as we do while one parent is at home. I also remind them of the importance of having a good education to fall back on should circumstances change, their spouse "go crazy and run off with the tramp at work", etc. They've seen marriages implode and seen kids suffer from it, and I hope they are all fortunate enough to marry someone as loving, supportive, and hard-working as their dad. Every one takes a financial risk when they choose someone to have kids with . . . I've been lucky as well as smart, but I acknowledge the reality that much of that is luck, and that every child should, if possible, get a good enough education to support any future offspring before they have them, even if the current plan doesn't rely on their financial support. 

[Halftime Hope]

I'm betting many of us will find that our kids' plans are a moving target. 

 

My dd is in her first year of grad school.  Last year she wasn't even thinking about any specific guy, and she most certainly did not want to be IDed as being a homeschooler, she was"over that."   She's known a HSed guy, long distance, for about 6 years and their relationship is growing closer--suddenly she doesn't mind being identified as a HMschooler.  (Imagine...)  They are both super busy in their professional and academic lives, so are each focused on their own things, but I asked her how she envisioned her family life looking in the future.  She wants both herself and her husband to work part time and to share parenting duties.  Apparently he's in favor of the same.

 

 

[MiMi 4under3]

I really don't understand the dilemma...

 

Why can't the successful mom leave her kids alone all day to "unschool" while she's out being selfish pursuing her career?

 

See? Win win. 

[ElizabethB]

I was very successful and very well educated. And look at how far down I've come in the world - oh, wait, this is what I want to do! But the pay stinks.

I get paid in hugs, it is actually better $ than most jobs!! :)

 

I also get hugs and really happy smiles from my remedial tutoring students, so I am twice paid in non $ pay.

 

(I used to get paid in $ when I had a job, and it was a good job and I enjoyed it, but I enjoy teaching my children more.)

[Reefgazer]

I took a huge pay and prestige cut in my professional life to stay home with my kids when they were young and now to homeschool them.  I knew what I was giving up and accepted it, and I am happy for the trade-off; I wouldn't want any other job.  A job is ultimately an alternative to growing your own food, and I've got more than that now.  My education benefits my kids directly.  And the hope is that I will educate my kids to a level that they will have and understand their own choices for their own kids, whatever that turns out to be.

[creekland]

I really don't understand the dilemma...

 

Why can't the successful mom leave her kids alone all day to "unschool" while she's out being selfish pursuing her career?

 

See? Win win. 

 

My mom tried that in a way back when I was in kindergarten.  I got home (alone) roughly an hour (sometimes more) before she did.  

 

It didn't take long until the "rule" I had to follow was to go into the house, change from school clothes to play clothes, then go outside to play.  I might have been a wee bit too enthusiastic with some of my unschooling lab experiments indoors.   :coolgleamA:  But I grew up to major in science, so it can't have been all bad.

[Ausmumof3]

Well my dd told me today that she will be too busy studying butterflies to get married sooooo....

[StaceyinLA]

I can honestly say that, though I have certainly never discouraged my girls from being career-oriented, I've never pushed them hard in that direction. I think being a SAHM and home schooling has a lot of value in our society (though I realize that may not be everyone's opinion).

 

My oldest went to college (wound up in general studies) but is now married to a great guy with a really good job. She is raising dgd (more to come I'm sure), and absolutely plans to home school. In fact, she has already set up an office/school room and is gradually filling it with educational things (dgd is 14 months).

 

Second dd has always wanted to do hair and own a salon. She was lined up to go to cosmetology school when she got married and moved to Hawaii (military dh). She got pregnant with dgs, then dgd and stays at home. She is a wonderful mom, and she does want to home school, but she also wants to go to cosmetology school in a couple of years and then own a salon (possibly a small one in her home). Since her husband is getting out of the military next year, they'll be back in the area where she'd have support and help with schooling if she needed that while she worked on her license.

 

Third dd is in college, unmarried, most likely heading to dental hygienist school. She wants to be able to stay home with her kids when she has some, so hopefully she will find and marry someone with similar goals. I honestly do not know if she would home school.

 

Ds tells me he wants me to home school his kids when he has some. I hope he will find a wife that is interested in home schooling, but I'd probably do it. I would love to be able to start over with all the new materials available!

[MeAndTheBoys]

I only have boys.  I said I'd never stay home, never be a homemaker, never get married, and never have children.  And I never heard of homeschooling until I was about 30.  Well now look at me.

 

Yeah, me too :)  I finished grad school when my 2nd was born, and had every intention of sitting for boards and going back to work full time again when they were about 3 or 4--but look where i am today.  I even had another baby.  All boys.

 

I loved going to college and grad school and had great experiences there and in the work world, but I am having a great time at home now, teaching and learning with my boys--

 

B

 

[elegantlion]

I'm pretty sure my ds would love a career oriented wife so he could stay home... with kids, I don't know, but he does replace toilet paper rolls, do his own laundry, and can cook more than ramen. I want him to go to engineering school so he can pick up a successful woman. You know, I'm all 1950s like that.  :scared:  - kidding -  :001_tt2:

[KrissiK]

In keeping with the spirit of the original post.....

We teach our girls that the only women who stay home with their children and keep them out of those evil public schools go to heaven. I think that doctrine should insure several generations of homeschoolers in our family!

[LucyStoner]

Some poor soul is going to stumble on this thread and think we are batshit crazies who mean this stuff.

[KarenC]

I would happily homeschool my grand kids.

[creekland]

Some poor soul is going to stumble on this thread and think we are batshit crazies who mean this stuff.

 

So, what are you saying?  You don't believe what you've posted?  

 

Next thing I know you're going to tell me Santa Claus doesn't really deliver presents around the world with his flying reindeer at Christmas.

 

There are always doubters (sigh).

[TranquilMind]

Let me preface that this is for Creekland. Surely we can get a real controversy started.

 

So is homeschooling sustainable? After you give your daughters truly stellar educations, and skillfully guide them to awesome colleges and amazing careers, where they are deeply satisfied and well compensated, who is going to homeschool your grand kids? It seems to me that at least some portion of homeschooling is driven by smart women who have opted out of the workforce because working wasn't worthwhile. Will successful homeschooling create daughters who thrive in the workforce and then don't homeschool their kids?

Good question.  Mine is a world traveler already and will undoubtedly get advanced degrees. 

She flips from, "I am never getting married or having kids" to "I'm going to marry, have 6-10 kids, and home school them all", regularly.  ;)   You are allowed to do that in your youth.  I hope I see how it all turns out. 

[Jayne J]

To paraphrase that great Philosopher Joss Whedon (:wub: )-- I keep homeschooling my daughters because people keep asking me that question. Or at least until they ask the same question about my son.

[Elisabet1]

Maybe they will marry husbands will do the home schooling.

 

And I was very successful academically, I still home school. I have seen engineers and many with masters degrees go to home schooling. 

[bolt.]

My highly successful career-satisfied grown up daughters will baby-wear their children to work until age 9 (in tandem and triplicate, or quad configurations as needed) simultaneously attending to their careers AND murmuring high-quality classical homeschooling into the attentive ears of the little ones.

 

Starting at age 9, the children will begin a gradual transition to short sessions of "recess" and brief independent lessons in the Montesori and Charilotte Mason styles. (The workplace will be arranged to acomodate this, because feminism is awesome.)

 

At age 11 the eldest child will surreptitiously take over the career-work duties (11 years full-time apprenticeship is plenty of training) allowing my daughters to provide a wonderful and varied 'homeschooling' experience for the remainder of the children -- while supervising the career child and keeping up with advances in her feild.

 

Later, the younger students can help and share the fullness of their educational experiences with the eldest, and the eldest will apprentice the other kids in the career feild. Eventually there will be job sharing among the children. Thus my daughters should be able to personally produce, educate, and fully support at least 14 children in succession, without ever abandoning her career.

 

It's so obvious! What kind of homeschoolers don't have a long term plan for their progeny?

 

(Yes, this is a joke.)

[creekland]

(Yes, this is a joke.)

 

Seriously?  And here I thought you had come up with a brilliant solution.  

 

This thread is getting depressing.

[HRAAB]

I only have boys. I said I'd never stay home, never be a homemaker, never get married, and never have children. And I never heard of homeschooling until I was about 30. Well now look at me.

I said I would never get married. When I got married I said I didn't want children. When I had my first I went back to work within a month and said I could never be a stay at home mom. I thought home schoolers were nuts and would never do that. I'm very careful about saying never because it's a sure sign I will.

 

I'm more concerned with my grandchildren getting a good education than whether they're home schooled. However, both my older two say they plan on homeschooling, and made sure their husbands understood and were on board before they got married. We will see what the future holds.

[HS Mom in NC]

Most of the current homeschoolers I know are women and had careers before they had kids and or started homeschooling.
 

My oldest said she's going to homeschool her kids.  My middle hasn't said anything on the topic.  My youngest is 9 and wants to be Bear Grylls.

It's not my decision to make and really none of my business.

[Guest]

Net net, I was able to homeschool *because* I had been successful, as had my DH.  Had either of us not done what we did pre-kid, both of us would have had to work.  Probably.

 

The downside of the option we took is *kid* not KIDS and the age at which I had my kid.  I wish I had been younger.  

 

God knows.

 

[laundrycrisis]

I said I would never get married. When I got married I said I didn't want children. When I had my first I went back to work within a month and said I could never be a stay at home mom. I thought home schoolers were nuts and would never do that. I'm very careful about saying never because it's a sure sign I will.

 

 

 

So did I.  It's been a journey. 

 

I was very successful and very well educated.  And look at how far down I've come in the world - oh, wait, this is what I want to do!  But the pay stinks.  

 

:smilielol5: Yup !

[Aelwydd]

As I'm a working mom, whose dh is the homeschooling SAHD, I know I've lost any moral authority in the conversation. Still, my son wishes to break free from the oppressive matriarchy, and work some day as a video game programmer. Or, perhaps an NHL goalie.

 

Keepin' it real.