What Say You Hive..(tense family situation)

[Meadowlark]

To make a decade long story short, my brother and I are estranged. I made the very tough decision 3 years ago, that I had had enough of the emotional and mental gaslighting and abuse.

 

Enter my parents, still grieving from my other brothers suicide 5 years ago, who claim that none of this has happened. It's been a rough road to say the least.

 

My mom lives in a fantasy world of still wanting that ".perfect family" and probably blames me for ruining that. For Christmas, it's always awkward. We always meet at my parents house mostly for the sake of the kids...and we get through it. Last year, my parents insisted that we draw names among the adults. I went along with it after getting the " it's at our house, our rules, we're the parents" speech. So as not to create WW3, we did it. It was pathetic. Mostly gift cards, fake thank you's, etc.

 

So, my mom mentions yesterday that she doesn't think the drawing names thing went over very well, and this year we're going to do a white elephant. She wasn't clear of the details, but the gifts are to be something funny. Well, you can about imagine how funny this exchange would be. I do NOT want to participate.

 

The big question is, do I have an obligation to my parents to go along with what they want to do? is this part of "respecting thy mother and father?" Or, by them insisting and not respecting my wishes, are THEY the ones being disrespectful? There was no negotiating or question in her tone. She made it very clear that my dad and her were making the decision. I feel disrespected as usual but wonder if I'm being the brat. Be gentle please. The pain of this whole situation is really indescribable so I'm not sure words can really convey what this has done to me. I just want to give my parents a gift, smile and be kind, and leave. Is that too much to ask?

[ZooRho]

I'm so sorry.  I don't have lots of advice.  Is it just the 2 siblings left?  or do you have other siblings?

I would say you can just say no to the gift exchange.  I hate those thinge anyway.  Say geez mom we all have too much why don't we use that money to give to charity.  Christmas should be about family and the kids.  

We were never really close enough to family to worry about holidays at home.  We did our own thing at our house. 

we did go when my youngest was 10 since we had never been at family at the holidays, it was not the WALTONS, we did not do it again, until my dad's health started going down and we did it a few years in a row but then the boys finally asked to stay home so we did.  

they were teens then.

[Guest]

I would say No. You are not a child anymore. Just skip the whole thing.

[Annie G]

I think this is a difficult situation for you. On the one hand, you are an adult and have made the mature decision to not let your brother ruin your life. On the other hand, you mom is still grieving and wants a Norman Rockwell-like holiday.   I'm not sure there is really a right or wrong here- just a lot of pain. 

 

Estranged from my brother, too, and my folks pretend his antics never happened. So I do know how hard it can be.  Hugs to you. At least I live 800 miles away so my parents never expected me to visit for the holidays. 

[Meadowlark]

No, no other siblings, which makes it all the worse.

 

So true...I'm not a kid. But my parents have a unique way of making that seem...oh, like not respecting them. It's come up in heated conversations before. They're VERY big into respecting elders, proper behavior, etc.

[LibraryLover]

I'm pretty sure that if one of my children committed suicide, I would never recover/be 'normal'.  I think I would tell my surviving kids to do whatever it was that made them happy.  I think I would need a script.  You want cookies, I'll make cookies. You want lights, I'll hire someone to do lights if I can't bear to.   If she cant care about you, just do your own thing at your own home, while telling her how much you love her. Then don't engage. End.

 

I can't even imagine trying to navigate the hell of child's suicide. And if my mother flipped on me, I would do what I said above. "I love you with all my heart, but this isn't going to work for us. We are having Christmas at home. I love you."  Hang up. Cell phones don't even bang, so there is that.

[bolt.]

If you choose to accept their invitation to holiday festivities, you don't get a vote on what they will plan, and you have a general obligation to be a good guest, a pleasant person and generally bring the fruit of the Spirit with you.

 

By inviting you, they are not requiring you to come. That is where they "respect your wishes"... Because they don't have any choice, and you do.

 

However it is true that it's kinda inhospitable of them to plan activities known to be upsetting to their invitees... But again, that falls to you. If they are bad hosts, tell them, and choose to decline their invitations.

 

It is a bit (mildly, gently) "braty" (as you say) to expect them to consult you as they plan their Christmas event. That's just kinda bad manners. You wouldn't treat anyone else that way... But you are only getting to that point (that you want a say, that you want to negotiate, that you think this is a collaboration) because you have forgotten that you have much more than the power of negotiation. You have the power of yes-or-no. That's not "bratty" -- that's what normal people do... Decide whether or not it's 'worth it' to attend unpleasant events, then do whatever they think is best in the situation.

[OneStepAtATime]

Is there any way at all that you could all participate in some family counseling?  It might move this into a more positive direction.  Not ever perfect, but maybe better?

[clementine]

Here is my .02 - I think you do the white elephant gifts...although I never make ours silly. Maybe a 3-pack of crocheted dish cloths, a scrubbie with soap, or a comedy DVD. Something you wouldn't mind getting.

 

Our holiday isn't great either, but we participate & pretend to be entertained and happy. It just seems to be the easier route.

 

I'm afraid if you bring a gift for your parents and leave, that things will only get more strained...if that's even possible.

 

I'm sorry, the anticipation of the holiday season and family dynamics can be less than pleasant.

[Meadowlark]

I'm pretty sure that if one of my children committed suicide, I would never recover/be 'normal'. I think I would tell my surviving kids ds to do whatever it was that made them happy. If she can't do that, just do your own thing at your own home, whikle telling her how much you love her.

 

I can't even imagine trying to navigate the hell of child's suicide.

You just hit the nail on the head. It's a constant balance of respecting myself (after 10 years of putting up with the crap) and giving my parents grace. I really do try to give them as much grace as possible because I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child.

[bettyandbob]

You know, you can celebrate Christmas at home. You can invite your parents to stop by Christmas Eve or Christmas Day or spend the night so they can part of the morning (whatever YOU want to include them in).

 

You have your family now. You have to make a priority of creating traditions and memories for your children. You can invite your parents to participate with you and it will be up to them to choose. It is not your responsibility to pretend to have relationships you d. o not have so that you mother can have her fantasy holiday

[bolt.]

No, no other siblings, which makes it all the worse.

 

So true...I'm not a kid. But my parents have a unique way of making that seem...oh, like not respecting them. It's come up in heated conversations before. They're VERY big into respecting elders, proper behavior, etc.

It's ok for them to be "big into" whatever they are into. They get opinions, perspectives, feelings, freedoms -- etcetera. It's ok for them to have those things.

 

It's also ok for you to have different ones.

 

It's ok for them to let you know their thoughts and reactions to your conduct... But it's also ok if you do what's right (as you assess it) and consider your own opinion more valid than theirs.

[LibraryLover]

You just hit the nail on the head. It's a constant balance of respecting myself (after 10 years of putting up with the crap) and giving my parents grace. I really do try to give them as much grace as possible because I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child.

 

yep. Do your own thing. I thought more, and added more, but basically, it comes down to not engaging, and doing what you need to do for your family.    Express your love and leave it. (No back and forth phone calls, email, FB etc. )

[justasque]

"Mom, I really don't want to do a big gift exchange.  Are you making those potatoes this year?  They were really great."

"Mom, I'd rather not do the gifts.  I was thinking about bringing pumpkin pie.  Do you think that would be good?"
"Mom, I do not want to do gifts.  I prefer a simpler holiday.  Just a nice meal, and spending time with family is all I really need."
"No, mom, I do not want to do gifts this year.  Do you think we should get a puzzle to do?"

Repeat, as needed.  Say no, do not get into why, do not respond to her asking why, just keep it simple.  Then redirect with a statement about what you DO like or want to do at this celebration.
 

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[JustEm]

With your family dynamic your options are 1. attend Christmas at their house and respect their wishes for the white elephant 2. . simply decline the invitation.

 

In my family, holiday gatherings are never a one family is hosting the other families are guests type of deal so everyone has a say in the flow of the holiday and the traditions shared.  But it doesn't sound like your parents view holidays like this so you either respect their wishes or decline going.  If they inquire why you aren't going you can be truthful and say you do not want to participate in the white elephant since you have no relationship with your brother.  Then you leave it in their hands to either say ok you don't have to or fine don't come.

[Anne in CA]

There is something to be said for distancing yourself from crazy. Very gently I'm going to say that these people ended up with a child who hurts people, and one who committed suicide. I don't know if the problem is that they are not healthy themselves and you need to distance your own children from them, or if there is serious mental illness in the family and they had no control over what went wrong. But if you EVEN SUSPECT that they are responsible for the boat they are in, you should keep your kids out of their boat. Send cards, gifts, love, but don't let yourselves get sucked into something that will harm your family. Your post suggests to me that you are worried about your self preservation. You should be. Your parents don't have your back. Maybe they don't have your back for very good reasons, but that still means you need to watch your own back.

[Meadowlark]

If you choose to accept their invitation to holiday festivities, you don't get a vote on what they will plan, and you have a general obligation to be a good guest, a pleasant person and generally bring the fruit of the Spirit with you.

 

By inviting you, they are not requiring you to come. That is where they "respect your wishes"... Because they don't have any choice, and you do.

 

However it is true that it's kinda inhospitable of them to plan activities known to be upsetting to their invitees... But again, that falls to you. If they are bad hosts, tell them, and choose to decline their invitations.

 

It is a bit (mildly, gently) "braty" (as you say) to expect them to consult you as they plan their Christmas event. That's just kinda bad manners. You wouldn't treat anyone else that way... But you are only getting to that point (that you want a say, that you want to negotiate, that you think this is a collaboration) because you have forgotten that you have much more than the power of negotiation. You have the power of yes-or-no. That's not "bratty" -- that's what normal people do... Decide whether or not it's 'worth it' to attend unpleasant events, then do whatever they think is best in the situation.

This is not a Christmas party with a lot of people invited. It is just my brother and his family, and us. No, nobody is dragging us there or anything, but it pretty much IS a requirement that we come. If we didn't, my parents would be devastated. My kids would be heartbroken. Your assessment that we can simply not go, is not a viable option. I will bring the "fruit of the spirit" with me, as I've done the past 4 years. I tend to disagree that we should have absolutely no opinion on the matter. If we were invited to a company Christmas party,would I suggest what's on the menu? No. Would I try to change the dress code? No. But these are my parents, it's not like that. With only the two of us, shouldn't there be some kind of discussion on an important topic that involved all of us, and can potentially be an avenue for more hurt?

 

My mom asked me what she should make for dinner...she asks me what gifts to get for the kids...why not this?

[bolt.]

This is not a Christmas party with a lot of people invited. It is just my brother and his family, and us. No, nobody is dragging us there or anything, but it pretty much IS a requirement that we come. If we didn't, my parents would be devastated. My kids would be heartbroken. Your assessment that we can simply not go, is not a viable option. I will bring the "fruit of the spirit" with me, as I've done the past 4 years. I tend to disagree that we should have absolutely no opinion on the matter. If we were invited to a company Christmas party,would I suggest what's on the menu? No. Would I try to change the dress code? No. But these are my parents, it's not like that. With only the two of us, shouldn't there be some kind of discussion on an important topic that involved all of us, and can potentially be an avenue for more hurt?

 

My mom asked me what she should make for dinner...she asks me what gifts to get for the kids...why not this?

She is hosting a party. She's just being very selective about the guests. You will be much happier if you set your mind steadfastly to think about it that way.

 

You do have a choice... It's just that choices have consiquences. You can make a choice that "devastates" them (knowing full well that it will). You need to know that you *can* choose that, so that if you choose otherwise you will know (1) that you chose it -- an act if freedom, not force...and (2) why you chose it -- out of compassion.

 

But honestly, I don't think it would come to that. If your potential absence was so "devastating" I'm sure they would swiftly change their minds about the parts if the gathering you object to. And if they won't retreat on white elephant grounds, I think it probably isn't that devastating.

 

On the other hand, I don't know why the white elephant is a deal-breaker for you. It's just donating 20 minutes if your time to an unpleasant activity as an act if service to people you care about. You don't need to enjoy it... A 'customer service' mask will do just fine.

[mom2samlibby]

Maybe I'm missing what will be so awful about the gift exchange of the white elephant. . .you don't know who will end up with the gift, so it has to be somewhat generic. Your brother won't be able to target you. Is that the worry?

 

If not going isn't an option, then I'd do the exchange. Go to goodwill and pick up something "unique". Or do some candy and pop in a bag. Keep it simple. Life is too short to stress over this.

[Meadowlark]

There is something to be said for distancing yourself from crazy. Very gently I'm going to say that these people ended up with a child who hurts people, and one who committed suicide. I don't know if the problem is that they are not healthy themselves and you need to distance your own children from them, or if there is serious mental illness in the family and they had no control over what went wrong. But if you EVEN SUSPECT that they are responsible for the boat they are in, you should keep your kids out of their boat. Send cards, gifts, love, but don't let yourselves get sucked into something that will harm your family. Your post suggests to me that you are worried about your self preservation. You should be. Your parents don't have your back. Maybe they don't have your back for very good reasons, but that still means you need to watch your own back.

You are right about many things. Mental illness is prevalent in my family, including my mother who has been on medication for the past 10 years but unfortunately, none of my childhood. My other brother is a self proclaimed sociopath (his words, not mine). We live 1 mile from my parents. There really is no reason to distance my kids, and honestly, if there was, I would be gone in a heartbeat. They bring joy and love to their lives, truly.

 

I got away from the "crazy" so just have to endure this one holiday. For my parents sake, we go and play the game. I asked about this on the Hive last year and the response was overwhelming to GO. So we go. We limit the time, act politely, let the kids play and leave. The kids have a blast and look forward to it every year. As I said, not going is really not an option. I think it's easy to say that, but that would be the worst thing I could possibly do in their eyes. I guess if it came down to it, I would do the white elephant, but I'm just curious as to what the opinions out there are.

[myfunnybunch]

:grouphug:

 

Let go of worrying about being respectful/disrespectful, or who is disrespecting whom.

 

If you don't want to do it, a simple, "No thanks. We'd rather not participate this year. We'll just (fill in the blank with what you are willing to do--watch and enjoy the game? stay for the dinner and leave when it's time to open presents? whatever it is you envision yourself doing if they choose to do the gift exchange anyway)."

 

It's not disrespectful to set a boundary about participating in an activity. They, of course, are in charge of their own reactions and behaviors, and if those includes words like "disrespectful," you gently set the boundary again. "I'm so sorry you feel it's disrespectful. That's not our intent. We love you and respect you. We're just not interested in exchanging gifts this year." And again, if needed. You are not obligated to provide a reason, even. Just "We're not interested in participating this year," is sufficient.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 

 

Cat

 

 

[LibraryLover]

OK. Given more information, I can see you are a bit stuck.  If you choose to attend,  there are obvious 'rules' in place.  If your kids would be devastated not going, go.  As reality stands, you're going to have to let go of the shoulds coulds, woulds. It is what it is. (Unless everyone is up for family counseling to work it out.)   Engage your kids in getting a funny gift, and make the best of it.  Your children may find it fun, and in years to come, perhaps the might see it as the best part of your extended family holiday.

[Anne in CA]

The fact that your kids are having fun and would be devastated not to go does sound encouraging. I was thinking that maybe there was more that was bothering you that you could not quite voice. I notice that sometimes people get bothered about something small when they cannot face the real thing that should be bothering them. 

 

Maybe it really is as simple as the fact that your mother senses the adults are not having fun exchanging gifts and it trying to force fun. I hope that is the case. :grouphug:

[AimeeM]

I say this gently, because I *do* understand tense family situations.

 

I would do it for my parents. I'm not even a huge fan of my parents much of the time, and they are dysfunctional at best, but I can recall many, many times in my childhood, when even my divorced parents, and the "other woman" (whom my father eventually married), ALL sucked it up, got along, and did things for our (their children) benefit, even though I'm very sure they would have rather *not* done so during celebrations and holidays when they decided it was better for us (children) for all of them to be together.

 

The only way I can see you getting out of this situation is to decline doing Christmas with your parents entirely, and only you can decide if you're comfortable doing that. Is it worth it? Please do keep in mind that I say this kindly, as I have also made the decision to cut people out of our lives entirely (family members) - but I did so with the understanding that I was, by default, cutting out the "supporting roles" on some level as well; my relationship with the "supporting roles" is now shallow at best.

 

 

[aggieamy]

Have a glass of wine when you get there.  Sneak a good book into the bathroom.  If anyone comments on the time you spend in the loo just give them a smile and say you had Mexican food for lunch.  

 

My advice is not the most responsible grown-uppy advice but it'll get you through the day. 

[Joker]

You are right about many things. Mental illness is prevalent in my family, including my mother who has been on medication for the past 10 years but unfortunately, none of my childhood. My other brother is a self proclaimed sociopath (his words, not mine). We live 1 mile from my parents. There really is no reason to distance my kids, and honestly, if there was, I would be gone in a heartbeat. They bring joy and love to their lives, truly.

 

I got away from the "crazy" so just have to endure this one holiday. For my parents sake, we go and play the game. I asked about this on the Hive last year and the response was overwhelming to GO. So we go. We limit the time, act politely, let the kids play and leave. The kids have a blast and look forward to it every year. As I said, not going is really not an option. I think it's easy to say that, but that would be the worst thing I could possibly do in their eyes. I guess if it came down to it, I would do the white elephant, but I'm just curious as to what the opinions out there are.

 

Then you go and do the gift exchange as they want. My mom has lost a child (not my dad as he was taken at the same time) and she is not the same woman/mother I grew up with. I love her dearly and respect who she is now. It took a lot of work on myself and time but I now think she's pretty awesome to have come through what she did and be who she is today.

 

[Meadowlark]

The fact that your kids are having fun and would be devastated not to go does sound encouraging. I was thinking that maybe there was more that was bothering you that you could not quite voice. I notice that sometimes people get bothered about something small when they cannot face the real thing that should be bothering them.

 

Maybe it really is as simple as the fact that your mother senses the adults are not having fun exchanging gifts and it trying to force fun. I hope that is the case. :grouphug:

I'm pretty sure this is exactly the case. She didn't specify whether it would be funny white elephant gift-something from our home, something funny bought?) OR we would set a dollar amount and buy non gender specific gifts. It could be any of the above.

 

We did the funny option when my other brother was alive. He was the fun one and this was before the split. I remember my brother literally rolling on the floor laughing when my husband gave my dad a giant painting of himself that his art teacher did in high school...and when my dad opened it, he didn't recognize that it was my husband and he said "is that Barack Obama?" Yes, we're Caucasion. It was hysterical! But things are VERY different now. The funny option bothers me because who will laugh? I see this as an option that is just not appropriate.

 

As for the other, yes it's a sore spot. My brother complained to my mom that we always get "cheap gifts" which could not be further from the truth. In fact, last year was sad because we brought gifts for each of their 4 kids (as we always did in the past) and they brought nothing for mine. Ouch. Furthermore, we always acknowledge their kids birthdays and they ignore mine. So you may understand better why I have no desire to get them a gift.

[MomatHWTK]

Gently, I can't imagine why your mother choosing the style of gift exchange should be such a huge issue for you.  So, I would guess that you are really holding so much hostility for other reasons that it is just manifesting as a problem with the gift exchange. 

 

If you detest your brother you can either stay away and upset your mother, or do what your mother asks and fake it to make it.  You can't come to a family gathering where your mom expects everyone to act like family and expect her to accomodate your rift with your brother. 

 

Do whatever gift the host requests as long as you don't have a financial or moral objection and deal with the other problems separately.  :grouphug:

[Meadowlark]

:grouphug:

 

Let go of worrying about being respectful/disrespectful, or who is disrespecting whom.

 

If you don't want to do it, a simple, "No thanks. We'd rather not participate this year. We'll just (fill in the blank with what you are willing to do--watch and enjoy the game? stay for the dinner and leave when it's time to open presents? whatever it is you envision yourself doing if they choose to do the gift exchange anyway)."

 

It's not disrespectful to set a boundary about participating in an activity. They, of course, are in charge of their own reactions and behaviors, and if those includes words like "disrespectful," you gently set the boundary again. "I'm so sorry you feel it's disrespectful. That's not our intent. We love you and respect you. We're just not interested in exchanging gifts this year." And again, if needed. You are not obligated to provide a reason, even. Just "We're not interested in participating this year," is sufficient.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Cat

Thanks for this. I was hoping you'd chime in because I usually agree with what you write :-)

So, obviously this is how *I* would prefer to handle it too. Good to see I'm not alone in my thoughts.

[bolt.]

I just skimmed through your post-Christmas thread from last year. You might want to do the same.

[TechWife]

My parents are 84 years old. Time is short, no matter how many years you think you might have left. Go for your parents, go for your children and go for yourself.   Ask for clarification on the white elephant (funny or no? new or used? can we set a $10 price limit to help our budget?) then try to relax and enjoy yourself. 

[Meadowlark]

My parents are 84 years old. Time is short, no matter how many years you think you might have left. Go for your parents, go for your children and go for yourself. Ask for clarification on the white elephant (funny or no? new or used? can we set a $10 price limit to help our budget?) then try to relax and enjoy yourself.

I understand this point of view too, I really do.

[5LittleMonkeys]

How many Christmases are you going to go through this?  

 

Put this to bed by telling your mother that due to your brother and you not having a good relationship you will be starting a new tradition of having Christmas in your home.  Extend the invitation for your parents to join you on Christmas Eve.  If she's going to be devastated then that's on her.  She can choose to accept the reality of the situation (that it's painful for you to "do" Christmas at her house due to the strained relationship with your brother), or she can choose to keep her head in the sand and be devastated.  That's on her...she's a grown woman.

 

I've been in your situation.  Estranged sibling that is mentally unstable and emotionally poisonous, parents choose to ignore it (they knew, they just chose to pretend it wasn't as bad as it was), parents expect everyone to get along on the holidays but everyone always ended up being stressed, frustrated and even more angry with each other...wash, rinse, repeat.  One year we said no.  We explained why and moved on.  We put the ball in their court as to whether or not they wanted to be part of our holiday.  You know what? They got really angry, we avoided a lot of phone calls, and by the following holiday they got over it and decided to split their time. It wasn't about dis-respecting them it was about respecting ourselves and our children.  

 

I hope you can find a way to cope with this time of year from here on out...the prospect of spending my Christmas every year for the next 15, 10 or even 5 years going through what you go through this time of the year is heartbreaking. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Catwoman]

If it were any other day of the year, this probably wouldn't be a big deal to you, but it's Christmas and it's an important day for you and your family, so I can understand your resentment at having to participate in activities which make you uncomfortable.

 

I do wonder, though, if part of the problem is that Christmas at your parents' house is painful for you because you miss your brother, and perhaps the house seems kind of empty without him, and things just don't seem fun or funny any more when you're there. It must also be very difficult because you aren't close to your other brother. :grouphug:

 

If I were you, I would go for your kids' sake, and focus almost entirely on doing things with your children while you are there. And if your brother gives you a hard time, tell him where he can stick his lousy attitude. ;)

 

Sorry you have to deal with this again this year. It must be so hard. :grouphug:

[fdrinca]

So, it turns out that my mother had a terrible - TERRIBLE relationship with my grandmother (her MIL).

 

I didn't realize this until I was much, much older, the point at which my mother quit pretending so much and my grandmother stopped remembering to be mean.

 

My point is: I get this. Our relationship with my husbands family (narcissistic MIL) is difficult. 

 

But, we put on big happy faces for the kids, because in the end, we're given the kids the gift of a fun, family Christmas. If not for the kids, we'd probably stay at home and watch Home Alone or something. 

 

I hate confrontation, so I'd probably

- push hard against white elephant, offering good suggestions as alternatives

- suck it up if white elephant comes to pass

- engage in tremendous self-care during Christmas - whatever that means for you, do it

[Liz CA]

So here is a question: Can you go there for a determined period of time and then visit the other set of grandparents or go home or see friends or get some tickets for a theater performance? I find it easier if I know I have only 2 or 3 hours to live through something unpleasant and during that time I can be civil and kind because I know it will not drag on for an indeterminate time. A whole day or afternoon into the evening may just be too much of a "good thing" and it's your Christmas too. You should not have to be miserable the whole time because Christmas is seen as a family affair.

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm thinking it might work out better for all of you to do something completely different for Christmas that has no associations with your brother that died. 

 

For all of my adult life my parents (mom and step-dad) have hosted Christmas with my brother, my 2 step-brother (one of whom is very difficult) and my recently reunited with us step-sister.  We've all been married 10-20+ years, so there have been SILs in the mix all that time (one of whom is extremely difficult to deal with.)  My parents treat their adult children like peers, not subordinates. They have always consulted each of us on the whole adult gift exchange thing.  Every. single. year. No exceptions. I'm stunned that you and your brother are not being asked for any input.

 

I'll get that first phone call from mom within the next 7-10 from now asking what I want to do.  Everyone else will too. There will be other offers, counter offers, brainstorming,etc. Everyone's budget, child custody arrangements and other holiday get togethers will be taken into account and worked around if at all possible. There will be a formal announcement at Thanksgiving with details. Eventually everyone gets it their way, but we have to take turns.  We don't have an "I'm hosting, therefore everything done is my way" mindset.

So far we've done:

 

1. Draw names, get normal presents.
2. Ugliest ornament, white elephant.
3. Gourmet treats, white elephant.

4. Fancy Christmas decoration, white elephant.

5. As seen on TV, white elephant.
6. Draw family unit names, give family gift.

7. Everyone rents their own cabin at the same vacation area in the snow instead of gift exchange.

We've done each at least twice now.

Other suggestions that haven't quite come to be because of logistics, limited budgets or the person who suggested it has already gotten it their way before:

 

1. Progressive dinner from house to house (we're all local.)

2. A Couple's Night Out, white elephant (gift certificates to restaurants, the movie theater, the local live theater, couple's massage, etc.)

3. Donate those funds to a charity.

4. Forget the adult gifts and just hang out and enjoy each other's company.

[Rosie_0801]

You just hit the nail on the head. It's a constant balance of respecting myself (after 10 years of putting up with the crap) and giving my parents grace. I really do try to give them as much grace as possible because I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child.

 

Well I can and it doesn't mean you become the only one in the world who matters or that you are the only one grieving.

 

 

:grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

I have a similar situation in my family. My eldest brother died 10 years ago, and my other brother and I are estranged. He sees me as mentally unstable and thinks I have never accepted his wife. He chose the distance. It is hard on my mom, who understands a bit, but wants the happy family scenario--we have a happy family, it's just our immediate famiy now. Same with db. She would so have loved an 80th birthday party, but Dad wouldn't plan one, and both my brother and I live 10-12 hours away. She sees her sister, who has a family of 5 kids that live either in her house (as adults) or just a little ways away--they get lots of holidays together. We don't leave for holidays, because dh needs to be here for church. It hurts her. I get it.

 

I also dread being with my brother, to be honest, because he won't come out and engage and help heal any hurt between us--and I won't either, because I already lost a brother and don't want to irrevocably lose another. We always thought my estranged brother would die first, as horrible as that sounds, because he has CF. It was a shock when my other one died (cancer). So there you have it.

 

My point is, there are lots of dynamics with mourning and loss and estrangement. Throw abuse and that sort of crap into the mix, and it really is toxic. I feel for you. And I feel for your mom and dad. I'm sorry you have this dilemma and this (perhaps?) feeling of being rather trapped.

 

I would probably ask my mom gently if you could forgo the white elephant exchange. She might be attempting to bring healing through laughter and might be remembering the fun times and wanting to recreate them, but the reality is, it won't work. There is deeper work to be done, if you all choose to do it--as a mom, I know how much I want a healthy family for my kids, and as an estranged sister, I know how much work it would be to really have healing in my relationship with my brother, and I don't want to do it.

 

So I don't know if it would work, but maybe you could think about saying something like, "Mom, I want to come see you at Christmas, but you know Brother and I do not get along, so I was thinking maybe we could decide on a charity to give a group gift to. Have you heard of Heifer International?" Then if she feels awkward about there being no gift exchange between the two sibs, could you say that you are both giving to the charity and it's really all you want. Or something like that.

 

Lots of hugs.

[Elisabet1]

I would not want to do the white elephant gift. To me, a joke gift just goes against what Christmas is...or really..I don't like joke gifts. Money is limited and it seems like such a waste.

[nevergiveup]

Pretend.

 

If you accept the invitation, you must honor the hosts' stipulations.

Your parents lost a child--by not going they "lose" you, too.

Put on a big, happy-to-be-there smile, bring a goofy gift and.....pretend.

 

 

[JFSinIL]

In this situation, I think you have to suck it up and do whatever your folks ask. They will NEVER stop grieving the son who took his own life. It is not about you, or your estranged brother, now. It is about doing what you can to ease your parent's hearts.

Don't make them miss you, too, during the holidays.

[SparklyUnicorn]

From my perspective of having absolutely no feelings (positive or negative) about this situation or towards your parents, it does not seem like a big deal.  But I have dealt with tense family situations and am estranged from my sister.  So I do get it.  What seems like no big deal on the surface can be a big deal.

 

It sounds like your parents are trying.  The gift idea isn't terrible IMO.  And your parents correctly perceived you weren't thrilled with last year's idea.

 

I admit I would be turned off by the attitude of "my house my rules" because hello mom and dad, I'm not a child.  That would make me feel defensive.

 

So I don't know.  I guess you have to decide if you want a relationship with them or not. 

[Harriet Vane]

>

 

[Mimm]

You are never obligated to be abused by anyone. You are not obligated to associate with abusive people. You are not obligated to associate with people who know very well you were abused but expect you to get over it and shut up about it. Being biologically related to someone does not give them special rights to abuse you.

 

I would skip the whole event. Do what is the best for you emotionally. Since no one else seems willing to look out for your emotional health, you need to. I haven't read any replies but when topics like this pop up I'm always surprised and saddened by how many people expect the OP to just put up with the situation.

 

I'm sorry for the loss of your other brother. That must be terrible for your whole family, especially around the holidays. I would probably offer to spend time with my parents apart from your estranged brother. I would simply say that I was not willing to spend time with him but hope they will come to dinner on such and such day, etc. Don't bother explaining our defending.

[Harriet Vane]

 

 

I just read last year's Christmas thread and have totally and completely changed my mind.

 

I'm sorry. In reading your posts on this thread, I simply didn't remember your family dynamics.

 

This is what I wrote to you last year:

 

A dysfunctional family is not so much a matter of what was said or done, but rather it is a way of life and a way of thinking. It's never just one thing. Absolutely everything is said/done within the context of this way of thinking. It is pervasive and all-encompassing. Even if no one is overtly rude with their words, every look and every breath is oppressive. People who live like this do not choose to act this way--it is the way they are. It is a state of being. Saying that you can be oblivious to it is like saying you can breathe coal dust or live in a nuclear waste site with radiation and not get sick.

 

OP--Consider stopping these farces altogether. You know it's not a couple of hours one day. It ruins your month every December. You start dreading it long before, and it takes you a long, long time to shake off that awful miasma afterwards. Whenever you think of it throughout the year, you feel sick.

 

And, OP, this isn't good for your kids, no matter what they say. It's really not worth it. Teaching them to love these people is teaching them to love a dragon. They will get burned.

 

 

It's two months before Christmas, and this is twisting you in knots already. Every year you worry about time spent with these awful, ugly people. I know how that goes--I have some awful, ugly people in my life too.

 

I think you should stop engaging. Stop playing your role. Every time you attempt to step out of that role, they treat you badly. That is not love.

 

Reading about last year's fiasco, I am going to guess that finding a new way to speak to these people and a new way to frame things internally will be well-nigh impossible right now. I am guessing that when you speak to them, when you are physically near them, you find yourself doing what is expected again. It can be very, very difficult to do otherwise. Ask me how I know . . .

 

Can you do something drastic? Rent a cabin somewhere and go away for some Christmas fun with your darling husband and kids? Take a cruise? Plan it carefully so that you are watching silly movies, playing games together, baking cookies, and doing lovely Christmas things. Reframe the whole holiday around the love that is in your family with your children.

 

Offer to host your parents only for dinner some other time. Your house, your rules.

 

If you cannot not go, then at the very least go for only two hours.

 

Also, please consider seeing a counselor. This sounds really awful. If your parents are in good health, this could go on for years and years. Stop the insanity.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Harriet Vane]

>.

[kristi26]

If it were any other day of the year, this probably wouldn't be a big deal to you, but it's Christmas and it's an important day for you and your family, so I can understand your resentment at having to participate in activities which make you uncomfortable.

 

I do wonder, though, if part of the problem is that Christmas at your parents' house is painful for you because you miss your brother, and perhaps the house seems kind of empty without him, and things just don't seem fun or funny any more when you're there. It must also be very difficult because you aren't close to your other brother. :grouphug:

 

If I were you, I would go for your kids' sake, and focus almost entirely on doing things with your children while you are there. And if your brother gives you a hard time, tell him where he can stick his lousy attitude. ;)

 

Sorry you have to deal with this again this year. It must be so hard. :grouphug:

 

I was thinking this same thing. :grouphug: It sounds to me like the gift exchange upsets you BECAUSE the last time you did a funny exchange was with the brother you loved and lost.  And it also sounds like your mom wants to do it precisely because she remembers it being a wonderful time with the son she lost and she hopes it will make the pain subside briefly.  

 

If it were me, I would pray with my husband before we left, and then we'd go.  We'd do what my mom wanted and try to have a good attitude if only for her sake and my kids' sakes.  

 

Good luck with this! It's a tough place to be!

[Starr]

I don't know but it sounds like you and your mom are doing the same thing. You both are having Christmas there and doing your best to act like everything is okay. You sound mad at your mom for doing this but you keep saying you have to go because of your kids. So your kids think everything is okay and that's how Christmas is supposed to be and you are upset for months. I'm sorry it's all so painful.  :grouphug: