Aged parent refuses to relocate?

[Laura Corin]

My mother is frail, often ill, not managing to look after her house, and miserable.  She has, up to now, only mentioned very vaguely the possibility of changing her living circumstances.  She lives alone eight hours drive from me and two hours drive from my brother.  Her next door neighbour, who has very kindly kept an eye on her, is at the end of his tether.  She's often rude to him - I've only just learned this - because she thinks he interferes.  She is ninety; the neighbour is seventy-nine.

 

Once she gets through her current health crisis, my brother and I are going to meet at her house and tell her that the time has come.  Subtle hints over the last two years have not worked.  She may well refuse.  She has full mental capacity but is stubborn, fiercely independent and set in her ways.

 

Have you ever had this kind of situation where an elderly person refuses to move?  What did you do?  The idea would be that she would come to stay with me in the short term, then I would find her a suitable cottage nearby where I could keep an eye on her.  Or a nursing/retirement home if necessary.  Her house would be sold to provide capital.

 

Any ideas gratefully received.

 

L

[Just Another Jen]

My great aunt who was like a grandmother to me was the same way. After her last stint in the hospital I talked to her and gently asked if she would move closer to me so that I could help her more. She refused and we talked for a long time. It came down to the fact that she knew her life would be shorter alone. She could fall, or have a stroke, or who knows what and I may not find her for days. I had a neighbor checking on her also. She didn't like him- thought he was spying. She was of sound mind and as a adult I trusted her judgement on her own life. In her mind maintaining her independence was the most important factor  It was much harder on me and my family.

  But, in the end I thought what happens when I am old? I don't want someone else telling me what I should do. So she stayed at home, happily. 

In her last month of life I moved in with her. I spent 18 days there without leaving. The last 3 she was in a coma and we took her to a hospice facility. If she was aware at all I bet she was furious with me. 

  I'm not saying this will be your situation- I just thought I'd throw another scenario out there. I think if I had absolutely insisted she move then she might have eventually but I only had a hour drive, so we made it work.

[Laura Corin]

My great aunt who was like a grandmother to me was the same way. After her last stint in the hospital I talked to her and gently asked if she would move closer to me so that I could help her more. She refused and we talked for a long time. It came down to the fact that she knew her life would be shorter alone. She could fall, or have a stroke, or who knows what and I may not find her for days. I had a neighbor checking on her also. She didn't like him- thought he was spying. She was of sound mind and as a adult I trusted her judgement on her own life. In her mind maintaining her independence was the most important factor  It was much harder on me and my family.

  But, in the end I thought what happens when I am old? I don't want someone else telling me what I should do. So she stayed at home, happily. 

In her last month of life I moved in with her. I spent 18 days there without leaving. The last 3 she was in a coma and we took her to a hospice facility. If she was aware at all I bet she was furious with me. 

  I'm not saying this will be your situation- I just thought I'd throw another scenario out there. I think if I had absolutely insisted she move then she might have eventually but I only had a hour drive, so we made it work.

 

Yes - it's the distance that is the problem.  If I could see her every week, then I would let her be and take the burden off the neighbour.

 

Thanks

 

L

[gingersmom]

My mother flew every month from NYC to Florida to visit her elderly mother.

 

It wasn't until she fell, broke her hip and lay on the floor alone all night did she agree to move to an assisted living facility.

 

Can you hire someone to visit/help out several times a week?

[NotSoObvious]

My grandparents refused to move. Luckily, they had enough money to hire private help until the end. 

[Laura Corin]

Can you hire someone to visit/help out several times a week?

 

She won't let me - neither a cleaner nor any other kind of help.  She could probably get help from the local social services, but she refuses to have people coming into her house.  She just doesn't want it.

 

L

[Danestress]

Laura,  would it be possible to find a suitable cottage for your mother  before she moves?  The way  you describe her, I wonder if it would produce a lot of anger and anxiety for her to move into your home and take her chances that you will find a place for her where she will be happy.  She would have to put her own things in storage and make two moves, which also seems like a lot of insecurity for her.  

 

When we moved my grandmother, and she was quite reluctant, we had already found a place for her on my aunt's street.  She knew how her furniture would fit in, that her rugs would work in the sitting room, etc, and all of these things were very important to her.  Her "things" were part of her identity, and even when she was old and frail, she just insisted on having them.

 

I also think it is worth talking to people and figuring out whether paying for care might be easier and less disruptive for your mother.  Could she remain in her home if she had a few hours a day of housekeeping, cooking, and help with bathing?  Does the state provide any assistance to seniors living in their homes?  I know it is hard to predict these things, but sometimes it is easier for an adult child to have a parent nearby, and honestly, sometimes it can be very difficult.  If she would be happier in her own home with a little semi-professional care, it might  be best, assuming you could still go down every couple of weeks and make sure  things are going well.  Even if you had to pay out of pocket for some care, if you expect her to be able to sell the home later, perhaps you could work out an legal arrangement with your brother where one of you pays for some care, with the agreement that any bequests will be used to pay yourselves back.  

 

If you are determined that she moved, I would consider whether to go the route where you speak to a legal specialist and go through a proceeding to be appointed guardian (which is hard here when the person is mentally able, though your laws may differ) or whether to have someone she loves and trusts intervene with her - perhaps a trusted clergy person, family member closer to her age, etc.  

 

[Kathryn]

I have no advice, just empathy. DH's grandmother finally agreed to move to an apartment near one of her sons on the condition that she retained ownership of her home and could go back if she wanted. She lived in the apartment for a couple of years before a fall put her in the hospital and led to her death a few years ago. The whole situation was stressful and heartbreaking. :grouphug:

[City Mouse]

My MIL would never agree to move, she ended up being hospitalized after spending the night on the floor and her doctor told her he would not let her out of the hospital if she was going back to living by herself. I don't know if that was really true, but at that time she would not listen to any of her children.

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Pippen]

She won't let me - neither a cleaner nor any other kind of help.  She could probably get help from the local social services, but she refuses to have people coming into her house.  She just doesn't want it.

 

L

 

Do you think she would accept help from you even if she lived near?

[Laura Corin]

Do you think she would accept help from you even if she lived near?

 

She would accept visits and she loves my house and garden, so I could bring her over often, make sure she was fed, etc.  She would probably only accept quite limited help though.  We get on well  - it's just the issue of where and how she lives where we have problems.

 

Good question.

 

L

[Kathryn]

She would accept visits and she loves my house and garden, so I could bring her over often, make sure she was fed, etc. She would probably only accept quite limited help though. We get on well - it's just the issue of where and how she lives where we have problems.

 

Good question.

 

L

Could you get her to agree to an extended visit with you and then work on her while she's there?

[Laura Corin]

Could you get her to agree to an extended visit with you and then work on her while she's there?

 

It's a good idea. Unfortunately, she just visited us and can't normally get herself together to visit more than once a year.  But it might be a way of approaching the issue.  Thanks.

 

L

[anneinco]

We have been through this with my MIL (84, lots of health issues) but she has allowed some help into the house but without her going on medicaid, she could not afford enough help. And then by going on medicaid, she would not have enough money to support herself.

 

I can't say we are In a position where she won't move, but It took 3+ years before she reluctantly agreed move in with us last fall. It has taken this long to work out the details, but I am currently here packing her up to move her in September. She is just now saying (by having me around) that she is happy she is moving, that she realizes the benefits of what we can offer. Up to this point she was stubborn and saying she would die in her home before going anywhere. She was at risk of loosing a toe last year, and in turn possibly her foot. When asked what she would do if that happened, she said "go home and take care of myself, by myself."

 

I have been in constant contacted th Adult/Senior Protective Services over the last few years and have learned there is not much you can do if they don't want to go. My MIL has been very stubborn in the past, but not so much now.

[OneStepAtATime]

My grandmother would not accept anyone in her home, either.  I lived many hours away.  I would drive over, stay a couple of weeks, get the house back in order, etc, then hire someone to come in and help.  By the time I drove home again they were already calling saying she had fired them and ordered them off her property.  And she would not move closer to anyone in the family.  I ended up doing a lot of traveling back and forth, it put a strain on my marriage and towards the end before my parents retired and took over I was also pregnant so it was not a good idea health wise.   But I don't know what else I would have done at that point.  Eventually I was able to get her to accept a friend coming over to check on her and help keep the house clean, but it took effort.

 

I agree with others, if it were me I wouldn't want people telling me what to do at that age.  I would want to be in familiar surroundings doing my thing.  Both of my grandmothers rapidly deteriorated mentally as soon as they were forced to relocate (and yes, eventually my parents forced them to relocate, but by then they had cognitive impairment from dimensia).  But that makes things so much more difficult for the rest of the family when they won't relocate.  

 

I guess you can try to lay it out for her as she either accepts someone coming into her home maybe once or twice a week or she moves near you.  Be gentle in presentation but firm and don't back down.  But treat her with respect.  Dad didn't really do that with his own mom.  It became a control thing between two strong willed people and was not productive.  I had a lot more success because I tried really, really hard not to act like she had no rights any more, or no value and I tried to treat her with the respect she deserved.  I was sympathetic to her concerns.  It did help keep lines of communication open and eventually she did allow me to take over all of her finances and hire a friend to come clean house and check on her twice a week.  Took time and lots of patience but treating her like an adult, respecting her feelings, being sympathetic, etc. really did help tremendously.

 

I am so sorry you are under this strain and sorry that your mother won't let anyone come in and help.   That would give her independence for a much longer period of time, if she could just see the logic in it.  But it may take something really negative happening for her to recognize that.   Huge hugs and sympathy.

 

Best wishes.

[Woodhaven]

We had an open, honest discussion with my MIL when it was time for her (and my FIL who is now deceased) to move in with us.  FIL wasn't capable of making the decision to move, but MIL was.  We looked at their situation, discussed their inability to keep up with their house repairs and lawn etc.  It was a tearful discussion.  It is hard to admit you are old and near the end of your life. It is difficult for an independent thinking person to give up some independence.

 

We worked it out so they could have their own space in our home.  It was important to my MIL to have her own kitchen.  Once they moved in with us, she did not integrate into our household fully, but kept up living as independently as possible.  Now that my FIL is gone, and it is just her, she is still pretty independent.  We leave her to do as much for herself as she can because that's how she wants it, but she knows we are right upstairs and we feel better knowing she is here.

 

So, I would suggest you come up with a couple of situations for her to think about. Speak truthfully and express your love and concern.  Ask what she would want her living situation to look like if she moved near or with you. And of course, pray about it before you talk to her.  I know this is hard. 

[G5052]

Is there someone else that might be able to convince her?

 

My mother had years of mental health issues plus dementia, and we were at wit's end. The neighbors were burned out, and I was getting multiple phone calls a day from people who were concerned. The police had been involved. I lived many states away.  

 

I called the minister of her church and begged and pleaded for some kind of help there. Bless his soul, he worked with friends of hers and basically staged an intervention.  We had an assisted living facility picked out that offered a 1-month trial in a furnished apartment.  Amazingly she agreed to try it because she could always come home.

 

And it turned out that she loved the activities and having food prepared for her.  So she got her own apartment and moved her things there.

[TammyS]

I would start from the POV that she is 90 years old and of sound mind, therefore has earned the right to live as she wants and to take whatever risks she wants with her life.  If you can wrap your mind around that, it will be easier for both of you.

 

That said, you might consider how you frame things to her.  Instead of, "I'd like to hire someone to clean your house (implication: you're a slob who won't clean)" consider, "Can I set up some interview for you to see if we can find someone you'd like to hire to do the housecleaning you like least?" 

 

Ask her what she thinks she needs and how you can help her.

 

And be willing to let her be, if that's what she wants.

 

 

[chiguirre]

My dad and aunt hired someone to come everyday. They did the paying, so my grandmother couldn't fire her. Eventually, they made a deal with my grandmother that if she spent the winter in my aunt's city apartment, she could keep her house in her village and spend the rest of the year there with the daily help checking on her. This was before cell phones and she had no landline, either.

 

In your situation, I might make a deal with your mother that she must Skype you with camera once a day so you can get a look at her. I'd also suggest making her keep a cell phone on her person at all times. If she misses a call and doesn't answer the cell phone, the neighbor or someone else will stop by. If she doesn't answer the door you'll call emergency services. I'm not sure you can make her move if she's vehemently opposed and not mentally incapacitated, so this seems like it would give you more peace of mind and not be overly intrusive for your mother. It won't make sure she eats or cleans the house, but hopefully you'll be able to see how she's doing from the daily Skype and visit if it looks bad.

[Halftime Hope]

We ended up moving in with my FIL since we lived in the same metroplex.  He had a large home with room enough for all of us, and we know that he would not have moved out until someone carried him out.  It worked out relatively well even though it was rough (in some ways) on my children and on my husband's commute time.  What I don't know is if my children will ever want us to come live with them, since they know how strange it can be for the children and teens when elderly dementia sets in. 

 

I don't know that we could have done anything differently though.  He was bound and determined to stay in his home.

[Anne in CA]

Change is frightening to anyone. I moved to a new state and bought a business last year and the change nearly did me in. And I am a person who embraces personal change, but  I changed too much at one time and it was highly stressful. A move is stressful to a young person, I can only imagine how hard it must be to face change as a person gets older. 

[Farrar]

That she won't accept help would concern me if that was my mother.  Can you talk to her about that, as a starting point?  I mean, the goal that you can both share is to keep her healthy and safe in her house for as long as possible.  Can you frame getting her help in her home as a means of helping her achieve the independence she wants, not as a way of taking it away?  Really, if she accepts help - a housecleaner, a gardener, a home health person to check on her when needed, etc. - then she's likely to keep her independence longer.  If she doesn't accept help, something will eventually happen that makes it unsafe for her to be in her home alone - more likely sooner than otherwise.

[Pippen]

I would start from the POV that she is 90 years old and of sound mind, therefore has earned the right to live as she wants and to take whatever risks she wants with her life.  If you can wrap your mind around that, it will be easier for both of you.

 

 

I agree, only with one condition and that is provided she isn't a danger to others...ie driving when she shouldn't.

[QueenCat]

Well we did everything possible to keep my grandma in her home.  So I guess that's what we would suggest.  

 

That would always be my first choice but it isn't easy when the ones who can help you the most are too far away to do it. We aren't there yet but we will be one day with my mom. My sister lives close to her but she works full time and still has a young child with afterschool activities & such. She can't be there daily. I'm 11+ hours away. I could be there daily to help her if she lived close to me. As of right now, she says she will never move from her area but MIGHT consider an assisted living place IF it's one of the really nice ones............

[kroe1]

Any sales pitch requires figuring out why someone hesitates to buy. One can talk all day trying to sell a widget, but if the salesperson never meets the needs of the prospective buyer, the sale will not happen,

 

Find out why your mom will not move. Then either meet her needs or let her be. If she is of sound mind, then she can do what she wants. Try hiring a housekeeper and getting meals on wheels and other services if she remains at home. Make sure her pets have an option if she gets hospitalized. Make sure a neighbor has a key and emergency contact numbers. Make sure she has transportation when needed.

 

Many times the elderly do not want to burden their families. It just requires some savvy long distance planning for the family.

[Diann]

We have had this issue with my father. He lives in FL, and the rest of us are scattered around the country. Long distance care is extremely difficult. My sister and I have been trading off flying down there every month. We have been doing this for a year. We have decided, enough is enough. My father will be moving to an assisted living facility in my city. Managing his care will be so much easier. This may sound mean, but we just told my father he had to move. Trying to keep him in FL and manage his care, home, etc. has become a logistical nightmare, even with local help. Plus, getting a last minute plane ticket because something has happened that needs our immediate attention is expensive. I know some PP have said they wouldn't want someone making decisions for them at that stage of their life, but otoh, my father's care has become a major part of my family's life. I have been away from home so much over the last year. My siblings and I had to consider the impact this has made on all of our lives, not just our father's.

 

I wish you the best, Laura, with your decision.

 

Diann

[Farrar]

And be willing to let her be, if that's what she wants.

 

Should we be willing to let our aging parents and grandparents make unwise choices that put them at risk?  I genuinely don't know.  

 

My grandmother is a little like Laura's mother - she's approaching 90, she lives on her own, she has had some health scares but is basically in pretty good shape all things considered, she has people who come to check on her who are family or friends that live in the area.  But...  her last health scare came because she had two mostly minor issues - a chest cold and a issue with an infection in her leg - that made her feel really run down, that caused her not to eat for too long, that led to her being seriously dehydrated, that ended with her in the hospital for nearly a week, completely a mess.  And it was scary because it could have been worse and there's no reason she would need to die in a situation like that, but honestly, she could have, despite being in basically good health for her age, despite having a network of lots of people around.  If she had died, I think I would have felt like we had all failed her by not being more vigilant about her care.  And I don't think she would have wanted to go that way - not when she could have bounced back and been fine (which, honestly, she is now).

 

But I don't know - without her allowing more help - how it can possibly be avoided in the future.  It seems to me that it's an inevitability that a similar situation will arise again if the circumstances don't change.  But how far is it okay to go in pushing for help if the elderly person refuses to cooperate?  Because I agree that you can't force a person against their will and you shouldn't, not someone of sound mind.

[gardenmom5]

I did the "encouraging" thing.  then I looked at options for in-home care so she could stay in her condo, as she was in and out of the hospital several times. I tried to get options, but she was very resistant.   then she fell and was on the floor for too long before help came.  I put my foot down at that point and told her she had to move.  she was resigned.  (she liked living on her own, she liked the privacy and doing what she wanted when she wanted.)

 

My brother got her to come to a retirement home near him - she hated it, then she moved into his house (that was a disaster my sister and I both saw coming, but she wouldn't listen to us.).  after all heck broke loose (she even said I could say "I told you so".), I moved her into a retirement home near me, then into one that offered more resident support that better met her needs.  she was MUCH happier and less stressed than I had seen her in a long time.  (and she died two weeks later.)

 

 

eta: mil (89) was in a different state from all of her children, and was finally moved into sil's house into a large bonus room area that overlooks an area well-used in summer.  meals are brought to her and she has as much autonomy in her space as she is physically capable of.  she also didn't want to move from an area she grew up (and lived the last 40 years), where her siblings lived, etc. her children also had to put their foot down, and she adjusted.

[Tess in the Burbs]

My mom had to get legal guardianship over her mom to move her.  By then it had gotten bad.  Grandma was going to other homes trying to get in thinking it was hers.  She wasn't getting to the dr for serious injuries.  When police were being called my mom had no choice but to go against her will to get the legal means to move her.  She ended up being drugged up to move by ambulance over 4 states.  It was so ugly.  

 

I have been very honest with my mom about it all.  She will need to be close to us and we will care for her.  She is staying with her husband now, but if he passes first she will come to us even if she doesn't like where we are.  She doesn't want to be alone, so I am pretty sure she will move when the time comes.  

 

In your case I think the family talk together will be good.  Give her options so she still has a say in her life.  I think losing that independence is the worst for them.  

[Laura Corin]

Is there someone else that might be able to convince her?

 

My mother had years of mental health issues plus dementia, and we were at wit's end. The neighbors were burned out, and I was getting multiple phone calls a day from people who were concerned. The police had been involved. I lived many states away.  

 

I called the minister of her church and begged and pleaded for some kind of help there. Bless his soul, he worked with friends of hers and basically staged an intervention.  We had an assisted living facility picked out that offered a 1-month trial in a furnished apartment.  Amazingly she agreed to try it because she could always come home.

 

And it turned out that she loved the activities and having food prepared for her.  So she got her own apartment and moved her things there.

 

She's completely isolated.  Apart from this one neighbour, the only other people she speaks to are any neighbours who happen to be on the street when she goes out (just to say, 'hello'), her doctor and people in shops.  My brother and I call every week.  We each visit/have her to stay over the course of the year.  She has had nothing that took her outside of the home since before I left home.  She's an introvert - so am I, so I understand that.  But she has taken her introversion towards isolation.

 

I would start from the POV that she is 90 years old and of sound mind, therefore has earned the right to live as she wants and to take whatever risks she wants with her life.  If you can wrap your mind around that, it will be easier for both of you.

 

That said, you might consider how you frame things to her.  Instead of, "I'd like to hire someone to clean your house (implication: you're a slob who won't clean)" consider, "Can I set up some interview for you to see if we can find someone you'd like to hire to do the housecleaning you like least?" 

 

Ask her what she thinks she needs and how you can help her.

 

And be willing to let her be, if that's what she wants.

 

You know, I used to say that it was entirely up to her how she lived.  You can find me saying that on this board, if you go back a year or more.  Then a few things happened:

 

- she became frail enough that she sometimes doesn't eat, and doesn't get the medical treatment that she needs (free of charge to her).  She is so used to being on her own that she can't break out enough to help herself.  If she was deliberately starving herself, I would accept her decision and find peace with it, I hope.  But she is getting more and more weak because of her living situation, and it's making her miserable.

 

- she loves my home and garden.  Last time she stayed, she couldn't bear to write me a thank-you note afterwards, because she became too upset as she started to write - she missed it so much.  What I am offering her is actually what she wants: to live in the countryside and spend hours lazing in my garden.

 

As a side note - she doesn't care that her house is dirty.  She's never been much of a housekeeper.  I'm much more worried about her eating and safety (one of the stairs is broken, her bedroom is upstairs, and she will not get anyone in to fix it).

 

That she won't accept help would concern me if that was my mother.  Can you talk to her about that, as a starting point?  I mean, the goal that you can both share is to keep her healthy and safe in her house for as long as possible.  Can you frame getting her help in her home as a means of helping her achieve the independence she wants, not as a way of taking it away?  Really, if she accepts help - a housecleaner, a gardener, a home health person to check on her when needed, etc. - then she's likely to keep her independence longer.  If she doesn't accept help, something will eventually happen that makes it unsafe for her to be in her home alone - more likely sooner than otherwise.

 

We did have that conversation, a while back.  It's worth revisiting to see if there's any traction in it now.... Thanks.

 

L

[katilac]

I wonder if Danestress is on the right track, about finding living possibilities for her ahead of time, instead of having her move in with you first? She might be afraid that you will try to pressure her to stay with you (not that you have given her any reason to suspect that, but she may think it anyway). 

 

Are there any short-term leases around you? Might she be open to visiting again with her own space, and then she could get a feel for what it would be like? I know that may not be affordable.

[lailasmum]

My friend is going through the exact same thing and it's turned into a game of back and forth. Her Mum is similar, getting to the point where she doesn't want to eat or can't be bothered or just doesn't so she's getting very run down and on top of that lots of health things going on that get worse with the lack of food and not taking meds. She also seems to have lost the ability or drive to seek help and keeps ending up in hospital because she gets so unwell then comes out ok and declines quickly again because the support isn't there. They're in a similar place and are trying to get her to move from Midlands to Devon. 

[Liz CA]

So...I am thinking there may be a subtle yet important difference: Is she reluctant to move but if enough advantages are presented, she may do it, be sad for a little bit but come around eventually especially since she loves your house and area and it can be expected that she will thrive in the new environment?

 

Or she is dead set against it. It cannot realistically be expected that she will eventually adjust with a few hiccups here and there and it is quite possible that she may decline in response to the uprooting?

 

I case # 1, work on her gently and point out the many wonderful things your area has to offer - in addition to your presence in her life.

In case # 2, can professional help be arranged? Is it enough for someone to pop in once a day, or even only three times a week, etc., to ensure she has food, takes any meds, is clean and healthy? Would she agree to extended visits like a month at your house three to four times a year but keep her home? Can the kind neighbor withdraw a little so he/she does not get overextended and let a another caregiver take over? Is this financially feasible? Would any of these "solutions" put your mind at ease? What does your brother & family think? If finances of mother are limited, can you and your brother pool funds to pay for a caregiver?

Is reverse mortgage a possibility in the UK (for funding of in home care)?

 

I am rather sensitive and sympathetic to older people wanting to remain in their environment. My own mother would likely not move far from her current home and our aunt who passed at 87 years, spent her last fifty years in the same house and died in that very house. She had caregivers come in and family members and I took turns spending a few days there. This is not always possible - I know. Main point though (for me) would be to make sure she is comfortable, not just physically but also mentally.

 

[Laura Corin]

What is my responsibility to the neighbour?  Tonight my mother is saying it was all a fuss about nothing: no need to call me, no need to call the doctor, everything is fine.  My brother believes her - I'm not sure

 

The neighbour is done.  He doesn't want to deal with her any more.  My brother - from his email - doesn't seem to think it's an ongoing issue that needs to be resolved.

 

L

[anneinco]

Time and time again we were told that if MIL did not want to do something, she was fine to stay where she was at. Even Senior Protecitve Services said that as well. We (with help of friends) equiped her the best we could. Lifeline (which has been used many, many times. She loves when the firemen 'those boys' show up), a family friend to set out meds (3 weeks at a time) and doctors visits. The county provided free of charge a housekeeper (2 hrs a week). And another program provided a senior companion 1x week. If nothing else, they were eyes on MIL each week. She would 'fire' them too if they weren't to her liking (in other words if they did their job and did not socialize with her, she did not like them).

 

I have been searching for solutions for 3-5 years and the hardest thing I was told is sometimes it takes a bad fall to get them the help they need, especially the stubborn, independent ones. I mean, come on, isn't that why we are fighting to get more resources, to be able to allow them to thrive on their own and be safe, but if they won't accept help, there was not much we could do.

 

This has been one of the toughest battles we have had to fight. It is so hard to sit back and not be able to do a thing. Yet at the same time have people telling you that something needs to be done, or how they would do things. I don't know what we would do if she was not willing to finally move. I think my husband was ready to move back here, which I don't think would have been the best decision for our family.

 

Laura, forgive me if this has been asked/answered... Have you talked to her doctor? Seen if you can get a home evaluation done? Maybe they would catch the broken stair and find a way to get it fixed. This has helped us in the past with creating ways to make her home and her routines safer.

[Liz CA]

She won't let me - neither a cleaner nor any other kind of help.  She could probably get help from the local social services, but she refuses to have people coming into her house.  She just doesn't want it.

 

L

 

Can someone put it before her as the choice between letting someone come in and help or having to move? If social services get too concerned she may not have a choice any longer if she is really in a dangerous situation. Perhaps several people need to warn her that she needs to make a choice while she still has a choice. Initially, she will likely reject it but give it some time to percolate and see if she gets softer on that issue.

 

I sympathize with all sides. I would want my family to respect my wishes, however, I know that it is upsetting to get phone calls from law enforcement, hospitals and neighbors when something goes wrong. This happened to a college friend of mine who is now living with her whole family in her mother's house to take care of her.

 

[Liz CA]

What is my responsibility to the neighbour?  Tonight my mother is saying it was all a fuss about nothing: no need to call me, no need to call the doctor, everything is fine.  My brother believes her - I'm not sure

 

The neighbour is done.  He doesn't want to deal with her any more.  My brother - from his email - doesn't seem to think it's an ongoing issue that needs to be resolved.

 

L

 

I'd get in direct contact with the neighbor. This way you can gauge better if the neighbor is coherent and things make sense or not. You may also be able to calm him down a little, assuring him that several plans are being considered but nothing can change as fast as overnight.

 

[shawthorne44]

My personal opinion is that someone does not have a right to decide that other people will do things for them.  So, if an Aged parent can get along by themselves, or pay for assistance, then fine.  If staying in their house forces their kid(s), to bend over backward to make that happen, then that isn't an option anymore.  

[Reefgazer]

I've got 2 of those parents - living independently and won't accept any help whatsoever and I can see it's going to get ugly in a few years.  You are not in the USA (I don't think), but here, there is not much you can do unless you are willing to take them to court and have them declared mentally incompetent.  Unless we do that here, they have the right to live as they wish.  With my own parents, I've decided that if they are indeed mentally competent (and mine are), then they have the right to live as they want, make their mistakes, and suffer the consequences.  But I've told them I won't pick up the pieces of their bad choices if that's what they opt for. 

 

Do you feel your mom is mentally competent?  If so, there is a case to be made that the choice on how to live is and should be her own.  But that's a decision only you can make for yourself, as far as your involvement goes. 

[trulycrabby]

Is there LifeAlert or something similar in the UK?

http://www.lifealerthelp.com/

[NorthwestMom]

Is she currently hospitalized, due to her current health crisis? If so, I would speak to the social workers at the hospital and see what they suggest.  I'm sure this is a regular problem that they see.  It's tough.  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[TammyS]

Should we be willing to let our aging parents and grandparents make unwise choices that put them at risk?  I genuinely don't know.  

 

 

If they are of sound mind, then YES, they get to decide what risks to take.  If they prefer to risk letting a cold turn into death because they were alone (and I gotta tell ya, as someone with substantial experience in elder care, this can happen at 90 whether they are alone or not), then they get to take that risk.  They prefer death at 90, rather than 91, if it means they get to stay in their home.  That's a reasonable decision to make, as long as they are making it in their right mind. 

 

Ideally, you have a long talk with the person and spell out what you think the dangers and risks are.  Hopefully get them to think through and realize the risks they are taking.  Respect, respect, respect is paramount in these discussions.  It is always, ultimately, their decision.  But you can often, though not always, get a lot of concessions when you make sure to put forward that you respect their intelligence and right to make the decision.  A lot of the resistance that comes is from the sense that the "help" that is offered is nothing more than spying and looking for an excuse to force your will on them (and in fairness to the elderly, they aren't stupid, a LOT of times that is exactly what it is).  But if you sincerely respect their right and try super-hard to make sure they know that you will never force your will onto them (in your own mind you can add the caveat "as long as they are in their right mind", but there is no point mentioning because it will only make them paranoid and once they aren't in their right mind it won't matter), then you can get a lot of cooperation, a lot of the time.

 

All of that said, if you are already involved in care of an elder person (or anticipate becoming involved), then your needs should be respected, too.  Whether it's hiring out housekeeping, having someone move, etc., just because you respect their right to make decisions doesn't mean that you lose your right to make yours.  You don't have to bend your life upside down to take care of someone who refuses to make reasonable compromises.  But that's a different discussion.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm not above lying to a loved one as an absolute last resort.

 

My maternal grandmother with mild dementia in her late 80s was living with my mother.  Even with my 3 brothers and I in town there were times mom needed someone to Grannysit for a few hours here and there.  My grandmother would never have been willing to let someone come watch her so we told her that a friend from church that Grandmother and mom and step-dad attended (true) was in a bad financial situation (not true) and wouldn't accept financial help (again this is completely made up) but was willing to work for pay (true) doing light housework (A lie.  She was there to Grannysit.) So out of the goodness of my mother's heart she was willing to hire her do so some light  housework.  No one pointed out that it happened to be when my mom was gone.  Mom would say to Grandmother, "Mom, Beth can only come over on ___________ at _____________.  I'm going to be gone.  Can you stay here and let her in for me?" This got Grandmother on the side of giving help rather than receiving help.

 

So is there any way you can present the idea of having someone come over on regular basis to do a little something here and there to clean, maintain, etc. as a charitable way to help them instead of helping your mother?  What with the economy and all......Times are tough for some people....Dignity in work rather than a hand out.....Someone trying to start a small service business needing local support....

 

My husband's paternal grandmother lived 7 houses down from his parents until the day before she died.  She was 96.  She had a push button thing she wore around her neck at all times.  If she needed help she just pushed the button and the company called the list of relatives on file until they got a hold of someone. If none answered, they called an ambulance to the residence.  We went over there once because she fell getting out of a chair and didn't have t he upper body strength to pull herself up with the chair. Then she agreed to go to an assisted living facility.  They day before she was to move it she had abdominal pain.  All of her organs were shutting down and she died with her family around her 24hours later in the hospital.

 

 

This has been a learning experience for me:

 

I will may not live independently my whole life.

 

I should be pleasant and cooperative to my caregivers (probably my daughters) and they should be sensitive to my preferences as much as possible.

 

This will be hard for them just like it will be hard for me.

 

What I do will affect others.

 

Sentiment for a house is counterproductive when medical issues come into play.

 

I can't have everything I want all the time.

 

Elderly dependence is a normal stage of life.  I should be glad I got to do things my way as much as I did, but it won't last forever. This isn't anyone's fault. 

[TammyS]

You know, I used to say that it was entirely up to her how she lived.  You can find me saying that on this board, if you go back a year or more.  Then a few things happened:

 

- she became frail enough that she sometimes doesn't eat, and doesn't get the medical treatment that she needs (free of charge to her).  She is so used to being on her own that she can't break out enough to help herself.  If she was deliberately starving herself, I would accept her decision and find peace with it, I hope.  But she is getting more and more weak because of her living situation, and it's making her miserable.

 

- she loves my home and garden.  Last time she stayed, she couldn't bear to write me a thank-you note afterwards, because she became too upset as she started to write - she missed it so much.  What I am offering her is actually what she wants: to live in the countryside and spend hours lazing in my garden.

 

As a side note - she doesn't care that her house is dirty.  She's never been much of a housekeeper.  I'm much more worried about her eating and safety (one of the stairs is broken, her bedroom is upstairs, and she will not get anyone in to fix it).

 

 

I understand how painful it is for you to see her living poorly.  And I think you are absolutely right to try to convince her to come to you.  I'm just saying that you also have to respect her right to live this way if she wants.  I would absolutely explain to her the risks (if it would help, have someone she respects added to this conversation...a peer, a doctor,whatever) as I saw them.  But if she's in her right mind, she gets to decide to live miserably, eat poorly, have filthy house, and fall off her stair.  I really do get that it sucks to see her living like that.  But she still has the right to do it.

 

And I totally and complete respect your desire to move her and pray that you find a way to convince her. 

[gardenmom5]

You know, I used to say that it was entirely up to her how she lived.  You can find me saying that on this board, if you go back a year or more.  Then a few things happened:

 

I want to say - I've actually btdt.  so, no theory here, but practical experience.

 

there comes a point when it is simply to dangerous to them to allow them to live as they want.  you are too far away to *really* judge how she is mentally.  she might seem sane and "with it", but actually be "off" and not up to taking proper care of herself.

there also comes a time when they stop being able to credibly judge what is what - and you can't take their word for something.

it's a fine line.  you want to preserve their dignity, but you still want to keep them safe.

 

 

What is my responsibility to the neighbour?  Tonight my mother is saying it was all a fuss about nothing: no need to call me, no need to call the doctor, everything is fine.  My brother believes her - I'm not sure

 

The neighbour is done.  He doesn't want to deal with her any more.  My brother - from his email - doesn't seem to think it's an ongoing issue that needs to be resolved.

 

L

 

I would believe the neighbor.  I did have that - prior to getting her out of her condo, one of my mother's neighbors found her in an irrational state.  My mother insists she was fine and the neighbor was over reacting.  even then, I was more inclined to believe the neighbor because my mother had been showing signs of concern.

I have been searching for solutions for 3-5 years and the hardest thing I was told is sometimes it takes a bad fall to get them the help they need, especially the stubborn, independent ones.

my mother refused all the aides I attempted to get for her to help her stay in her condo.  she hated the pre-pared meals/foods I found so she didn't have to cook anything.  (she was a fairly picky eater.) so, she wouldn't eat much.  she would tell me not to come, because she could "do it herself".  it was made more difficult because I had a very young undiagnosed aspie who was very difficult both mentally and physically..

she fell, and was on the floor for hours before she was found.  at that point I told her she was NOT going back to her condo.  it did force her to admit things were worse than she wanted to believe. it would have been so much easier if she'd allowed me to look at places before she reached that point as she could have had a say - and I would have had some time to actually look.

[goldberry]

Well, I have a mom who says she is ready to go.  She is in her 80s and has had a lot of pain in her life, including the loss of my brother 2 years ago.  Yes, she is on antidepressants.  And she eats and takes care of herself still, reads books, enjoys each day as much as she is able.  But she knows she is nearing her end and she is tired and is ok with that.  The consequence of that though, is that she doesn't want anything that will "make her safer" or "better taken care of".  She wants to be left alone, and if that means she dies sooner she is ok with that. 

 

This is heartbreaking to me.  She is having some mental issues that we want to have checked out.  She refuses.  But at a certain level, knowing her life, I *understand*.  It's not a totally irrational thought.

 

Aging sucks.  That's all there is to it.  :grouphug:

[Kebo]

She's completely isolated.  Apart from this one neighbour, the only other people she speaks to are any neighbours who happen to be on the street when she goes out (just to say, 'hello'), her doctor and people in shops.  My brother and I call every week.  We each visit/have her to stay over the course of the year.  She has had nothing that took her outside of the home since before I left home.  She's an introvert - so am I, so I understand that.  But she has taken her introversion towards isolation.

 

 

You know, I used to say that it was entirely up to her how she lived.  You can find me saying that on this board, if you go back a year or more.  Then a few things happened:

 

- she became frail enough that she sometimes doesn't eat, and doesn't get the medical treatment that she needs (free of charge to her).  She is so used to being on her own that she can't break out enough to help herself.  If she was deliberately starving herself, I would accept her decision and find peace with it, I hope.  But she is getting more and more weak because of her living situation, and it's making her miserable.

 

- she loves my home and garden.  Last time she stayed, she couldn't bear to write me a thank-you note afterwards, because she became too upset as she started to write - she missed it so much.  What I am offering her is actually what she wants: to live in the countryside and spend hours lazing in my garden.

 

As a side note - she doesn't care that her house is dirty.  She's never been much of a housekeeper.  I'm much more worried about her eating and safety (one of the stairs is broken, her bedroom is upstairs, and she will not get anyone in to fix it).

 

 

We did have that conversation, a while back.  It's worth revisiting to see if there's any traction in it now.... Thanks.

 

L

Perhaps you could frame it as inviting her to an extended stay at your house -- maybe 6 months. Maybe suggest it to avoid her staying alone during the winter. By then she might not want to leave. In her mind she would still be independent because she hadn't given up her house.

 

Alternatively, would it be an option to arrange for separate housing on your property? A mobile home or "tiny house"? Then she could have her independence and your garden, too.

[Harriet Vane]

What is my responsibility to the neighbour?  Tonight my mother is saying it was all a fuss about nothing: no need to call me, no need to call the doctor, everything is fine.  My brother believes her - I'm not sure

 

The neighbour is done.  He doesn't want to deal with her any more.  My brother - from his email - doesn't seem to think it's an ongoing issue that needs to be resolved.

 

L

 

Your brother is wrong. Listen to the neighbor. He is right there, and he sees more than either you or your brother. :grouphug:

[Jaz]

Your brother is wrong. Listen to the neighbor. He is right there, and he sees more than either you or your brother. :grouphug:

 

I completely agree as I've been the neighbor. The neighbor sees all the little day to day things. Sorry you are going through this.