Would you report this? (suspicion of possible abuse)

[8circles]

I overheard a good friend of mine, F, talking to another mother, A, who I am not friends with by my choice.  They are discussing the difficulty of getting school done with babies/toddlers around.  A mentions that she has had to spank her children to get them to do schoolwork, occasionally using a belt.  Her kids are 8/9 and 6/7 (and baby).  If you were a mandated reporter, would this qualify as reportable?

 

Background:  This took place a co-op that meets at a mega-church that we do not attend.  We don't help at the co-op but all the moms with littles hang-out while we wait.  A & I both have 3rd-grade boys who play together/socialize at co-op but frequently butt heads.  A's son frequently becomes very angry & lashes out - to the point where people who don't know him describe him as "that angry kid".  A is the worship leader for the co-op & attends that church.  This is not an academic co-op but we participate for the social/creative outlet (art, writing, devotional, gym, theater).  I don't know if any of that is relevant but usually people ask background questions so I'm trying to be thorough.  F was shocked and at first thought A was joking.  F started to explain to her how inappropriate it was to do that and I had to just walk away.  

 

ETA:  

Physical abuse is defined as “physical injury inflicted on a child by other than

accidental means.”...This includes non-accidental injury

inflicted by any other person. “Physical injury includes but is not limited to

lacerations, fractured bones, burns, internal injuries, severe or frequent bruising or

great bodily harm, ...

[Melissa in Australia]

Other

 is it against the law where you live to smack your children?

 

 

It wasn't all that long ago that schools spanked children for not doing their school work.

[Joanne]

Yes, professionally I'd have to report it.

 

Personally, I am against *spanking* but would never, ever report for it. I would only report ABUSE. IMO, once you use a freaking belt, it is no longer spanking.

[8circles]

Other

 is it against the law where you live to smack your children?

 

 

It wasn't all that long ago that schools spanked children for not doing their school work.

Yes, thank you.  I meant to include the definition of physical abuse.  I'll add it.

[Dory]

In my area, using a belt on a child would be considered abuse. In this area it is against the law to spank a child with an object because they can cause physical harm to the child. I have spanked before and would be appalled by that.  It would depend on what the laws are in your area, but I don't know of many areas where that would be considered ok.

[NicAnn]

Yes, I am a mandated reporter and I would have to report the use of a belt.

[LucyStoner]

IMO, what a parent is willing to tell others they are doing is probably a grossly minimized account. It is also a way to seek approval/reassurance that it is ok. On some level she may be looking for someone to stop her.

I am not going to comment on all types of spanking. My opinion is strong and you can probably guess what it is. However, the combination of the belt, the likelihood that the parent is minimizing what she is doing and the aggressive behavior you have observed in the child is all, IMO, worthy of a report. If nothing more than to help record a pattern if/when others report or the kids seek help themselves. I've seen CPS investigations make positive improvement in the lives of families. For both parents and kids.

I know my opinion is not popular with people who categorically oppose CPS or support parents using belts to hit their kids under the guise of parent's rights. I will not be engaging in any back and forth debate on the matter.

[AimeeM]

It's perfectly legal in my state to beat children with belts. I think it's disgusting and archaic, but it isn't reportable, really, unless there are bruises (and even then they likely will do nothing).

[Seasider]

http://kidjacked.com/legal/spanking_law.asp

A quick google search turned up the link above. Disclaimer: I have no idea about the site's origin or content, the link just appeared useful.

[magnificent_baby]

I am a mandatory reporter, but in my state I am not required to when it is outside of the work setting. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to report whether at work or not. In this case, I probably would. 

[Joanne]

Coming back to add that all the state (Texas) classes for parenting (sent by CPS, divorce, etc) are very good and recommend authors I am fond of. They are, of course, against spanking.

 

Yes, even in Texas.

Culturally, though, it is still assumed nearly every parent spanks. I used to get complimented ALL THE TIME on my kids with the assumption that of course I spank or they wouldn't act well.

[Unicorn.]

Other

 is it against the law where you live to smack your children?

 

 

It wasn't all that long ago that schools spanked children for not doing their school work.

 

Some schools still do.  In TX, it's still legal, and the school my niece attended still does it.  Parents have to sign permission slips, but it does get used.  I'm pretty sure they use a paddle.. which isn't any different than a belt. 

[Mergath]

I would report that even if I wasn't a mandated reporter.  What could children that young possibly do to warrant (in her mind) being beaten with a belt?  Disgusting.

[Unicorn.]

There's nothing here that says anything about not using a belt, so in and of itself, that isn't considered abuse.  Personal opinions will vary greatly, but legally, it doesn't fit as abuse simply because she uses a belt. 

 

Quote

Physical abuse is defined as “physical injury inflicted on a child by other than

accidental means.”...This includes non-accidental injury

inflicted by any other person. “Physical injury includes but is not limited to

lacerations, fractured bones, burns, internal injuries, severe or frequent bruising or

great bodily harm, ...

[Shellydon]

No.  If there were marks on the kids or some other red flag, then yes, but just for getting swats with a belt or spoon, then no.

[8circles]

I would report that even if I wasn't a mandated reporter.  What could children that young possibly do to warrant (in her mind) being beaten with a belt?  Disgusting.

Yeah, that's my reasoning, too.  I figure if a mandated reporter considers it worth reporting, I should as well.  

[Truscifi]

In my state spanking with a belt is not illegal, and that alone would not warrant a report. But it would definitely concern me, and if there were other concerns as well I might call it in. The child's behavioral issues might be enough in addition to the spanking with a belt but it would depend on the severity and how the mom reacted to it,

[catz]

I absolutely think it's disgusting that someone would raise a belt to a child. But it's so not clear that it's illegal in my own state. I guess better safe than sorry, but nothing may come out of reporting depending on where you are and if there is any record of bruises or physical injury.

[Ameena]

I wouldn't but I would keep an eye on the kids. If they showed signs of abuse - marks, neglect, etc - then I'd call. In my state it is not illegal to spank a child with a belt AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T LEAVE MARKS that last over 24 hours. I have a friend who does use a belt on his kids. I have asked him to please not do so in front of my dd as it upsets her.

[shinyhappypeople]

I wouldn't but I would keep an eye on the kids. If they showed signs of abuse - marks, neglect, etc - then I'd call. In my state it is not illegal to spank a child with a belt AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T LEAVE MARKS that last over 24 hours. I have a friend who does use a belt on his kids. I have asked him to please not do so in front of my dd as it upsets her.

 

This.  I think what that mother is doing is very wrong, but it's not illegal according to the definition you posted.  

 

What a sad situation. :(

[bolt.]

I would only report it if...

A) if what was disclosed fit the legal, official, local definition of physical abuse

Or

B ) if I was under the personal impression (a firm suspicion, genuinely held) that what was disclosed, combined with other observations, led me to believe that undisclosed abuse was occurring -- including emotional or verbal abuse, if the physical did not "qualify" alone.

[justasque]

I overheard a good friend of mine, F, talking to another mother, A, who I am not friends with by my choice.  They are discussing the difficulty of getting school done with babies/toddlers around.  A mentions that she has had to spank her children to get them to do schoolwork, occasionally using a belt.  Her kids are 8/9 and 6/7 (and baby).  If you were a mandated reporter, would this qualify as reportable?

 

 

Kids of that age are usually quite eager to learn things.  In my experience, if they balk at schoolwork, there is usually a good reason.  The work may be too hard, they may be at their limit for new information intake for right now, they may be tired or getting ill, they may have low blood sugar and need a snack, they may have learning disabilities or neurological conditions that are making things more difficult than the teacher realizes, they may be in an environment that does not lend itself to learning or focusing (noise, etc.), the curriculum may not teach in the way their brain best learns.  

An effective teacher, whether she be a paid professional or a homeschool mama, keeps a sharp eye out for these challenges, and handles them thoughtfully, with love and grace.  It is often the children who are most difficult to teach- those who may frustrate a teacher the most - who turn out to have specific, diagnosable disabilities that are the root cause of their struggles with the work.

Hitting a child with a belt in an effort to get them to learn is neither thoughtful nor grace-filled, nor is it effective in the long run, as it does nothing towards understanding the underlying cause of the child's resistance to the work, nor to mitigate said cause.

You are right to be concerned.  At minimum, this homeschooling teacher-mama needs to learn more about effective teaching methods.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Does she teach or supervise in the coop?

[8circles]

I would only report it if...

A) if what was disclosed fit the legal, official, local definition of physical abuse
 

 

See, to me this situation fits the definition I posted in the OP.  But it must not fit to many people.

 

IMO this qualifies under both A & B as you described them.

[8circles]

Does she teach or supervise in the coop?

 She leads the singing during worship & also runs 10/15-minute rehearsals with the middle-schoolers who sing with her & run the sound board.  I don't know if any other adults are present during these rehearsals as my kids aren't involved in running worship.  But otherwise no other supervisory role as all the kids sit with their co-op teachers during worship.

[SKL]

From the sound of things, this was done a couple of times as a last resort on school-aged kids.  It would not be considered abuse here.

 

I don't like it but I wouldn't report it without a lot more.

[SKL]

I remember when I was young and I always used to like reading parenting advice (even though I wasn't a parent).  Back then, they used to advise that you shouldn't hit a child with your hand, you should use an object such as a paddle or belt, so the child doesn't become afraid of you / your hand, but rather of the belt/paddle.

 

So it's interesting to see that now, many people think that hitting with an object is more abusive than hitting with a hand.

[zoobie]

Do you as a mandated reporter have a hotline or supervisor with whom you can speak to get some ethical guidance? I would start there or find someone familiar with your state and locale's baselines.

If you don't want your kids to do it to you as an dependent elderly person, don't do it to them as a dependent child. Sick mentality someone has to make it okay to beat a child with a belt!

[Catwoman]

I wouldn't report it because I didn't see it, and also because I would have no idea how often the mom spanked her kids or how she defined "occasionally."

Obviously, if I had seen evidence of the mom having anger issues, or any marks on the kids, or any indication that the kids seemed scared of her, those factors would make a huge difference to me, but I wouldn't report someone on the basis of having overheard part of a conversation between two moms.

I would be absolutely appalled about the whole idea of the belt thing, but I wouldn't report the mom based on the circumstances mentioned in the OP.

[momma2three]

I would call and ask if it's reportable.

[8circles]

Do you as a mandated reporter have a hotline or supervisor with whom you can speak to get some ethical guidance? I would start there or find someone familiar with your state and locale's baselines.

If you don't want your kids to do it to you as an dependent elderly person, don't do it to them as a dependent child. Sick mentality someone has to make it okay to beat a child with a belt!

 

I am not a mandated reporter.

[Tohru]

OTHER:

I find it tragic anytime a parent intentionally harms their own child, no matter the reason. However to report something that you overheard, and only part of the conversation, well I think that is where a lot of misunderstandings stem from. 

 

Perhaps you could mention your concern to a church leader or co-op leader, and maybe try to befriend her?  She sounds like she is in a position where she could easily be overwhelmed and unsure how to handle it - homeschooling 2 children - both need high parental involvement, with a baby, and leading the choir, and running a home, well, that is a lot for anyone.  She really might not want to harm her children, but doesn't know of any different or better ways to deal with it.

[chiguirre]

I overheard a good friend of mine, F, talking to another mother, A, who I am not friends with by my choice.  

Background:  This took place a co-op that meets at a mega-church that we do not attend.  We don't help at the co-op but all the moms with littles hang-out while we wait.  A & I [size=4]both have 3rd-grade boys who play together/socialize at co-op but frequently butt heads.

You don't like the mom and your son doesn't like her son. How much do you think this is coloring your judgment? Nobody can answer that but you.

It also depends on where you live. If you live in a state where schools still use wooden paddles, that's a different kettle of fish than if you live somewhere where spanking is illegal.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I remember when I was young and I always used to like reading parenting advice (even though I wasn't a parent).  Back then, they used to advise that you shouldn't hit a child with your hand, you should use an object such as a paddle or belt, so the child doesn't become afraid of you / your hand, but rather of the belt/paddle.

 

So it's interesting to see that now, many people think that hitting with an object is more abusive than hitting with a hand.

 

If you're coming at me with a belt/paddle/hand, I'm going to be afraid of you no matter what. Hitting a child hard with a hand also hurts your hand, so you can have some sense of when to stop or how much you're hurting the child too. When you hit with an object, you lose that sensory information and can inflict more pain than you probably intend to. That's why hitting with objects is worse.

 

Yes, I'd probably report it.

[8circles]

I wouldn't report it because I didn't see it, and also because I would have no idea how often the mom spanked her kids or how she defined "occasionally."

Obviously, if I had seen evidence of the mom having anger issues, or any marks on the kids, or any indication that the kids seemed scared of her, those factors would make a huge difference to me, but I wouldn't report someone on the basis of having overheard part of a conversation between two moms.

I would be absolutely appalled about the whole idea of the belt thing, but I wouldn't report the mom based on the circumstances mentioned in the OP.

 

I understand what you're saying.  I don't want to report it.  In fairness, though, I heard all of the conversation clearly until I left & it was over about a minute after I left.  I asked F about it later, and she confirmed what I had heard.  She even said that in her other country (dual citizen) she would be a mandated reporter & that she would have to report it.  She, being actual friends with A, was not sure she would report it - she was still sorting it out.  May not change your opinion (which is fine) but I thought that was relevant.

[8circles]

You don't like the mom and your son doesn't like her son. How much do you think this is coloring your judgment? Nobody can answer that but you.

It also depends on where you live. If you live in a state where schools still use wooden paddles, that's a different kettle of fish than if you live somewhere where spanking is illegal.

 

Yes, I don't like the mom.  My son considers her son his friend, despite their issues.  They've been over for playdates, go to each other's birthday parties.  We've met up at the zoo with mutual friends.  We'll see them tomorrow at an ice-skating get-together.  I helped take care of her newborn when she was hospitalized.  I don't think I'm being unfair but it's possible.  

 

To my knowledge wooden paddles are not used in schools here.

[SKL]

Well since F is friends with A, wouldn't F have a better idea than you regarding whether A is an abusive parent?

 

I understand many folks here don't believe in spanking, but it's alive and well and still being taught and preached in some circles.  My church recently had a Sunday School class that centered on the belief that kids need to be spanked early and often or there is little hope for their souls.  So the fact that this lady used a belt a few times does not mean she is an abusive parent, it may just mean she was taught that method of discipline.  Not the same thing at all.

[8circles]

Well since F is friends with A, wouldn't F have a better idea than you regarding whether A is an abusive parent?

 

I understand many folks here don't believe in spanking, but it's alive and well and still being taught and preached in some circles.  My church recently had a Sunday School class that centered on the belief that kids need to be spanked early and often or there is little hope for their souls.  So the fact that this lady used a belt a few times does not mean she is an abusive parent, it may just mean she was taught that method of discipline.  Not the same thing at all.

 

Yes, except F & I have had conversations about concern for A and her parenting before.  & F thinks it's report-worthy for a mandated reporter.  She may report, may not.  But in a case like this I think that sometimes it's hard to admit that a friend might be doing something wrong.  

 

But that's separate from whether or not I report it.  Reporting it doesn't mean she's abusive - it means a professional might look into it. 

[8circles]

Ugh.  This sucks.

[Catwoman]

I understand what you're saying. I don't want to report it. In fairness, though, I heard all of the conversation clearly until I left & it was over about a minute after I left. I asked F about it later, and she confirmed what I had heard. She even said that in her other country (dual citizen) she would be a mandated reporter & that she would have to report it. She, being actual friends with A, was not sure she would report it - she was still sorting it out. May not change your opinion (which is fine) but I thought that was relevant.

Thanks for the clarification. Honestly, my first thought would have been that I wished I hadn't heard the conversation! :blush:

I think F's input is very important, because it sounds like she knows the woman better than you do.

I know this is going to sound like passing the buck, but I think I would defer to F on the report/don't report decision, since she was the actual participant in the conversation and also because as the woman's friend, she probably knows more than you do about her home life.

It's a tough situation, though, and I know that if I'd been in your situation, the whole thing would be very worrisome to me, too. Ultimately, I don't think there's enough concrete information to be certain that the woman is an abusive mother. Again, I'm totally against the belt thing, but I didn't get the impression that the mom was bragging about how she beats her kids all the time, so I might extend her some grace this time and then keep a close eye on how she behaves in the future -- and hopefully F might be able to speak with her again and get more details.

You're in a tough spot, but you're a sensible person and I know you'll make the right decision, whatever you end up doing. This may be one of those "go with your gut" circumstances where your feelings about what you heard are more important than the actual words the mom used, and unfortunately, none of us were there with you to have a chance to get those same impressions. :grouphug:

Again, in this kind of situation, I would support your decision, no matter what you decide to do, because you were there and I wasn't, and that makes all the difference in the world.

[...................]

I don't think it's cool and this woman obviously has issues, and her son is obviously not a happy child, and I don't know how she expects to get a handle on them, going forward. I mean, what is she going to do in three years when that boy is as big as she?

 

Anyway, I just don't think it's reportable.  She may not be a good mother, but that doesn't mean this is child abuse and she deserves to have CPS at her door.  If she gets the wrong social worker, she can end up having them taken away within a day!  Do you think the children are better off in some crazy random foster home, than with her?  Are you sure? 

 

She may have spanked them to do school twice in her whole life, and she just shared that because she thought it was worth discussing, to get better ideas or something.  IDK...I just personally would not report it.

 

OTOH if you also see other signs of abuse- fear, neglect, extreme dirtiness, extreme tiredness, being footshy, bruises, etc. etc. then of course that would perhaps factor in.  But if this one comment is all you have, then I personally wouldn't.

 

(PS I voted don't report it but I don't like the way she worded it...it's not "totally ok." to me and that could also be why other ppl are voting that way too.)

[SKL]

Another point is that F has talked to this lady and might be able to help her come up with better ideas without government intervention.  Maybe that will prove to be sufficient to get this lady on a better track.

 

When the government gets involved, you just never know which way it's going to go.  Would it be OK in your mind if her kids got taken away and put in foster care?  Because that could very well happen.

[8circles]

When the government gets involved, you just never know which way it's going to go.  Would it be OK in your mind if her kids got taken away and put in foster care?  Because that could very well happen.

 

Would it be OK?  I don't know.  But I don't have automatic distrust of CPS. Sometimes it is better for kids to be in foster care, sometimes not.  I would expect CPS to investigate & determine what parenting needs the family had.  Is it possible that CPS would be too heavy-handed?  sure.  that is a risk if I report.  Is it possible that the children aren't physically, emotionally, spiritually safe right now?  yes.  that is a risk if I don't report.

 

I find both scenarios risks to be pretty darn awful.  Which makes this difficult.  I don't want either one of those for her children.

[abba12]

Spanking is still a form of parental discipline in many places and among many people groups. Just because you, or the people here, don't like it or don't approve of it doesn't mean it isn't just as valid as any other controversial parenting choice so long as it doesn't cross the line into abuse (and no, the act itself should not be considered inherently abusive even if some people want to, otherwise we would have to say that just about every single child 100 years ago was being abused constantly, and if we say THAT then we belittle abuse, since many or most of those people didn't actually disagree with what was done except in the cases where it crossed obvious boundaries, and we have all heard people who say 'I was spanked and it didn't hurt me any'.)

 

Spanking is still perfectly legal where I live, I see it happen publicly, and though there are definitely murmurs about it being made illegal, it's also quite widely accepted that that won't change what happens privately, and that defining the boundaries of spanking vs abuse would probably be more useful, but no one can figure out how to do that without sounding like they are approving of spanking, so right now it's just a topic no one talks about.

 

The belt is irrelevant, a belt, wooden spoon, switch, paddle or bare hand makes no difference, it's what is done with them that makes the difference. In some beliefs, a bare hand is considered worse than a belt because the hand should be reserved for loving touch. 

 

Many people choose to spank after actual thought, or even research, or they use it as part of their parenting and they are conscious of where and when it is used. I seem to be unpopular enough at the moment so I'll come out and say that I personally do spank in some instances, and I have made a choice to do that after reading a lot from both sides of the argument. But situations like this are exactly why I don't talk about it. As we have seen in the vaccination thread, everyone is happy for parents to make informed decisions, as long as your decision matches theirs, and if it doesn't match, well it's obviously made in complete ignorance right? But that just isn't true. 

 

Having said that, when I see anti-spanking stuff, they often feature film of acts which I, and NO ONE I know, would ever describe as 'spanking', but as abuse. I personally have reported physical abuse and there is definitely a line and a difference. My husband and I were both spanked with belts at one point or another, and it was quite acceptable. We aren't that old, it is not that long ago that these actions were normal (that doesn't make them ok, but to go from spanking with a belt being normal to unimaginable in 20 years is extreme)

 

Does the child show generalized fear with their parent, or jumpiness (not just when they know they've been naughty)

Is there markings for a prolonged period after the spanking (2 hours is about the limit to me in most circumstances)

Is there ANY mid or long term damage, at all? As far as I'm concerned if there is any sign of a spanking after 12 hours then it was not a spanking, it was a beating.

Are spankings happening with high severity AND high frequency? (some families spank a lot but do so rather lightly, some families rarely spank but when they do it is with considerable force, some do a combination depending on the situation, but both together is concerning)

Are parents spanking for offenses which are not really offenses by most standards?

Does the child feel safe to share their feelings with their parents, and to have opinions and ideas? Some parents turn their kids into little emotionless drones through spanking and other poor parenting techniques, this is abuse. Others meet their children on an emotional level, engaging with them about the whys and feelings, and parents who spank are just as capable of this as those who don't. Some of the most opinionated, emotionally intelligent people I know were spanked as kids. But some of the most emotionally clueless were as well and that is abuse.

 

From what you have described, she has occasionally spanked with a belt in order to get the children to settle, behave and do as they are told (their schoolwork). You might not agree with it but it hardly sounds like it constitutes abuse unless other warning signs are present. The anger is irrelevant, plenty of kids who aren't spanked have anger issues (in fact, one of the arguments against spanking is that kids are too afraid to show negative emotions like anger. I, of course, disagree with this argument, but it's an example of a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Some people would argue DD1s anger and DD2s general compliance are both bad things caused by spanking, one is 'too submissive' and the other is 'too agressive'. In actual fact, both of them have had those natures since infancy, long before they were spanked. I remember DD1 throwing things and screaming at them out of frustration before she could stand, while DD2 would crawl into her room, under her cot, and fall asleep if I wasn't quick enough to put her to bed. Once we got feeding sorted I don't think she cried more than once a day as a baby, and we don't spank babies here.)

 

Let the woman raise her kids the way she believes is best. I would expect a bunch of homeschoolers to understand the idea of a parent being responsible for their own child better than anyone. After all the people that accuse homeschoolers of being abusive by isolating their children etc etc, I'd think as a group we should understand that it's not all black and white and more than one intelligently formed opinion can exist.

[awisha.]

nm...

[Lolly]

Wow, 17 people have voted that they see no problem at all with a child being hit with a belt ?

 

I'm all fried after the vaccination thread so that's all I'm gonna say about that.

 

OP, seems like you've had some good advice here already.

 

 

It is the way the post was worded. The question is "Would you report this"

 

You really have two options, imho, yes and no. The other is tossed in 'cause this is a poll and the masses require it. The added.."no problem with this" is actually an (probably) unconscious bias added by the poster. Those who chose it did so because we ignored the emotional aspect of the answer and went with the definition of abuse in a purely legalized fashion. This question is actually one that, even more than the vaccine debate imho, should be answered based on the evidence at hand not just a personal emotional reaction.

 

You are assuming that because a belt was used that there are marks physical damage done to the child. You envision the parent wailing away at the child. Yet, you have no way of knowing whether that is the case or not. With absolutely no knowledge/evidence of physical harm, it is automatically being assume it is there. That is simply not a valid assumption. You later ask how a belt can be irrelevant. Well, it is because it (just like a swat with the hand) can be controlled for force and impact. The legality comes in as to whether it has done physical damage/left lasting marks (which actually goes into a further definition). Again, to our knowledge that is no evidence that it did.

 

I take reporting someone to CPS extremely seriously. I do not see it as something that is non-harmful to the family. "Oh, they will just investigate. If it is nothing, they will just go away." The only way I would file a report is if I had enough evidence to personally make the decision that a child needed to be removed from the situation. Actually, if my spidey (how on earth should that be spelled???) senses were tingly to an extreme, I might make the call; but they would be tingling enough that I wouldn't have to ask on a message board if the situation was harmful enough.

[Pawz4me]

I remember when I was young and I always used to like reading parenting advice (even though I wasn't a parent).  Back then, they used to advise that you shouldn't hit a child with your hand, you should use an object such as a paddle or belt, so the child doesn't become afraid of you / your hand, but rather of the belt/paddle.

 

Whoever wrote that must have thought kids were really, really stupid.

[creekland]

This would not be reportable here - and I am in that mandatory reporting class, but I work with high schoolers (mostly) and they rarely get spanked anymore.  ;)

 

Personally, I'm not at all against spanking... I find it to be a good way to deal with excessive willful disobedience with young kids (those too young to have adequate reasoning abilities, but old enough to understand immediate consequences).  A 4 - 8 year old child who insists on running into a road every time they are free will learn it's not a wise choice if they are spanked when they do it (after having been taught not to, of course - don't use spanking to teach).  The fear of spanking is worth it since they do not understand the danger involved otherwise.  I recall when I was young learning not to bite my sister due to being spanked.  It worked - very well - reasoning meant nothing to me at that age, though my mom tried.

 

BUT, spanking due to not doing homework is a great way to get kids to hate learning... or anything to do with school IMO.  It's far better to make an effort to get kids to want to learn via other methods (mainly making it interesting and participating with kids).  I have visions (meaning possibly not true) that she's setting them at a table with book expectations or merely telling them in the morning what she wants done by evening, and when it's not done - spanking.  Her kids are too young to expect that to work.

[mom@shiloh]

 I definitely think this woman has a problem and is on the wrong path, but please don't report her.  At least, not as a first step.  Please extend grace and assume that she could use some help.  For the sake of her children and the rest of society that needs to deal with her children as they become adults, find a way to walk alongside her and encourage her to use better parenting.  

[mom31257]

I was spanked with a belt, and I didn't become an angry person. If she is readily admitting it, then she is not a real abuser. If she were leaving bruises and being extremely cruel, she wouldn't talk about it.  You don't know if she is just giving one swat or how hard.

 

Parents should be able to spank their children without fear of intervention from the government. Just because the kid has anger issues doesn't mean it's because of spanking. I know a neighbor who is totally against spanking and has a child with an anger issue. The younger children in the family are very rowdy, throw tantrums, etc. My own son has said that if the mom would have spanked them, they would be better behaved. If a 10 year old can look back and see that spanking him had good results, then I think it shows spanking can be useful. I don't think it should be used for just anything, though.

 

Unless you see a sign of physical abuse, I don't think you should report it.