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Living in Italy -- I'm going to be ill...housing office torpedoed our house.

LisaKinVA

By LisaKinVA,
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LisaKinVA

LisaKinVA

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It's 8:30 at night...I'm getting kids to bed.  I get a phone call from the guy whose been helping us with the Landlord in Avellino, saying that the Housing Office and Inspectors have been talking to our Landlord and have convinced him NOT to rent the house...mind you, we have a final contract signing on Monday...

 

They told him that Americans wreck the houses....that they don't stay for their commitment...and that we don't have the money...and that we probably really want to live in Gricignano (around the Navy Support Site).  Just a heads up...we CANNOT live in Gricignano.  I break out in hives when I'm around Gricignano.  That whole area makes us physically ill when we are out there for 30 minutes.  It is AWFUL.

 

And these are the people who are supposed to be looking out for US.

With friends like these...

  

My husband is going to conference call in with a friend fluent in Italian tomorrow, and try to get everything straightened out.

 

But, I'm not feeling confident...so it looks like instead of moving for Christmas, I'm just stuck trying to get emergency assistance to stay in this hotel until we can move into anything.

 

 

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LisaKinVA

LisaKinVA

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If it might help, message me your email address and I can see if a friend that lives in Italy currently and just went through the whole rental thing could help you out.

 

I'll send you my e-mail...but lets just say it was a concerted effort (via private phone calls) to talk him out of renting.  It has zilch to do with the process, and 100% to do with the people involved in the process.  Everything was fine...but the call from housing today, telling the landlord that we didn't have the $$$ to rent the place pretty much was the straw that broke the camel's back.  

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LisaKinVA

LisaKinVA

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Can you prove to him that you do have the money to rent the house?  And can you report these people to someone?  What they are doing is wrong, right?

 

We have to bring cash to closing...no cash...no closing.  Yes, we have the cash.  Yes, it is all getting reported (ICE, supervisor, letters being written as we speak).  What they are doing is absolutely wrong.  Really can't do anything until tomorrow, and my husband will be doing that part.  (emergency TLA/short term lease approval, and calling realtor friend...main issue now is that we don't have another 3,000 euro the landlord now wants, due to having so many people tell him how bad Americans are to rent to...and how we're going to destroy his house) I have to work on plan B (finding another house, if that's even possible), meanwhile...keeping up appearances for the kiddos, because I don't need them freaking out.

 

So...Having cheese with my whine (and my wine)....getting girded up for the battle royale tomorrow.  I'm lining local Naples friends up to assist.  Glad I found a few wines I really enjoy!

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jenamiles

jenamiles

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I'm assuming this is the housing office that is sabotaging your efforts to rent on the local market.  Is housing overseas contract like it is stateside at most locations now or is it still run by a DOD office?  I know here they work really hard to keep people in housing so that the contractor gets their money from our BAH but I've never heard of them sabotaging a rental contract on the local economy.  That is just dirty.  And I'd definitely be escalating that to anyone who will listen.  Sorry to hear about your frustrations.  I know I'd be livid.

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trulycrabby

trulycrabby

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Hmm, I am so sorry you are getting the run-around! I'm wondering if someone else wants the house, or someone didn't get or wants a payoff. I really don't know how things are done in Italy, but I am always suspicious when things pop up like this at the last minute. I hope you get things resolved very soon!

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Mom in High Heels

Mom in High Heels

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Good grief (literally).  I'm so sorry this is happening.  Hopefully, you can get it sorted out tomorrow and things will work out in your favor.  I would have carted my unhappy arse up to the housing office and pitched holy hell (believe me, I would too).  

At least you have good wines to help you get through.  Try an Aglianico.  Yummy!

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Tammi K

Tammi K

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Wow. I'm shocked you're having problems. When we lived in Germany and Australia, both times on the economy, landlords were HAPPY to rent to US military. They have so much assurance that the house will be returned to them in top notch condition.  I know our housing checkouts with the base/embassy were fr more strict than they were with the landlord's agent.  Housing wouldn't let anything slide. They even replaced things that were damaged at the time we filled out our check-in sheet. They went above and beyond to keep the landlords happy.

 

We're civilian so we've never been eligible for on base housing but the housing office in both places had been more than helpful in helping us find housing. They always handled negotiations and contracts. Don't you have similar access?  Can't they help you with the landlord?

 

I'll be praying for a simple solution for your family. Hang in there.

 

 

EDIT: Just read more of the posts. It looks like there are some shady people in the housing dept. It seems like a call to the JAG office and the base commander might be in order.

 

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Sisyphus

Sisyphus

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I have lived in a place with shady housing goings on, it sucks. Kick backs from realtors and landlords to housing officials meant they would only approve/negotiate those realtor or landlord properties. Everyone knows what is happening, no one does anything or can't because of host nation red tape, culture, who knows. It sucks though!

 

Hopefully that is not what is going on, but it wouldn't shock me. And hopefully you can kick up enough fuss to get your house.

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In The Great White North

In The Great White North

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Back in the day, the housing office had a wait-list policy.  When you signed in, they put you on the list, and only gave housing referrals to the top three people at a time.  Each of them got three choices.  They had to take one of the three or get bumped to the bottom of the list (60-70 families). No one was allowed to rent any apartment on the list except the top three people.

 

I was the sponsor for a new Lt (there were no BOQs).  We signed her up, saw the length of the list and promptly bought a local paper.  We found an apartment and set up an appointment.  As soon as we walked in, I saw American appliances.  The house has been rented by an American before, and was on the Housing Office list.  They had not sent anyone to look at it in six months!  We called Housing, who said she could not have the apartment because she was #65, even though they had not sent even a single person out.  It came in very handy to speak the local language.  I explained the whole mess to the landowner. She was rightly furious because Housing had lost her 6 months of rent.  She called Housing and pitched a fit. It took about half an hour and was fairly entertaining but in the end, my Lt got her apartment.

 

Moral of the story:  The native speaker could be worth his weight in gold.

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LisaKinVA

LisaKinVA

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That's awful!  Do they have a motive for sabotaging you, or are they just that nasty for no good reason?

 

We believe it's because we didn't use one of their Realtors (we're civilians...and don't have to, moreover we can get referrals from friends, and the friend who helped us out initially is an American stationed here).  So, the rumored kick-backs we've been told about weren't getting paid.

 

I'm assuming this is the housing office that is sabotaging your efforts to rent on the local market.  Is housing overseas contract like it is stateside at most locations now or is it still run by a DOD office?  I know here they work really hard to keep people in housing so that the contractor gets their money from our BAH but I've never heard of them sabotaging a rental contract on the local economy.  That is just dirty.  And I'd definitely be escalating that to anyone who will listen.  Sorry to hear about your frustrations.  I know I'd be livid.

 

There is a Housing Director (the office is overseen by US personnel...but pretty much everyone working there are local Italians).  The pre-contract phase went relatively smooth (I was terrified they were going to muck it up), At first they were telling him there we didn't have the money -- until my husband explained he had 6 dependents, so they called HR, and were given the amount we were told we had (4,000 euro).  We are escalating the situation today.  My husband's chain of command is getting involved, co-worker (fluent in Italian), and we'll be getting all of the information written down.  At that point, letters will be sent to the base CO and the Housing Director.  I don't know if it will do any good, but I'm also going to send a CC to our Congressman and Senators...  

 

All of the houses have to be registered (and inspected) by housing.  There are certain places that Americans are NOT allowed to rent (health reasons), and certain requirements (safety/water/anti-theft) that must be met.  Some safety things (like an extra fence around the pool...inside the exterior fence...or fencing on retaining walls) we can waive.  

 

 

I wonder if the housing people have friends in Gricignano, whose rentals are empty, and are trying to force you to take one of them?

 

That's what Atillio (the Italian who was translating for us with the Landlord) was thinking...

 

 

Hmm, I am so sorry you are getting the run-around! I'm wondering if someone else wants the house, or someone didn't get or wants a payoff. I really don't know how things are done in Italy, but I am always suspicious when things pop up like this at the last minute. I hope you get things resolved very soon!

 

 

Yeah...I've heard about the kickbacks...they keep telling Americans they aren't happening...but Realtors in the system (and local nationals) will tell you differently.

 

Wow. I'm shocked you're having problems. When we lived in Germany and Australia, both times on the economy, landlords were HAPPY to rent to US military. They have so much assurance that the house will be returned to them in top notch condition.  I know our housing checkouts with the base/embassy were fr more strict than they were with the landlord's agent.  Housing wouldn't let anything slide. They even replaced things that were damaged at the time we filled out our check-in sheet. They went above and beyond to keep the landlords happy.

 

We're civilian so we've never been eligible for on base housing but the housing office in both places had been more than helpful in helping us find housing. They always handled negotiations and contracts. Don't you have similar access?  Can't they help you with the landlord?

 

I'll be praying for a simple solution for your family. Hang in there.

 

 

EDIT: Just read more of the posts. It looks like there are some shady people in the housing dept. It seems like a call to the JAG office and the base commander might be in order.

 

Thanks...

 

 

I have lived in a place with shady housing goings on, it sucks. Kick backs from realtors and landlords to housing officials meant they would only approve/negotiate those realtor or landlord properties. Everyone knows what is happening, no one does anything or can't because of host nation red tape, culture, who knows. It sucks though!

 

Hopefully that is not what is going on, but it wouldn't shock me. And hopefully you can kick up enough fuss to get your house.

 

Yup...this.

 

Back in the day, the housing office had a wait-list policy.  When you signed in, they put you on the list, and only gave housing referrals to the top three people at a time.  Each of them got three choices.  They had to take one of the three or get bumped to the bottom of the list (60-70 families). No one was allowed to rent any apartment on the list except the top three people.

 

I was the sponsor for a new Lt (there were no BOQs).  We signed her up, saw the length of the list and promptly bought a local paper.  We found an apartment and set up an appointment.  As soon as we walked in, I saw American appliances.  The house has been rented by an American before, and was on the Housing Office list.  They had not sent anyone to look at it in six months!  We called Housing, who said she could not have the apartment because she was #65, even though they had not sent even a single person out.  It came in very handy to speak the local language.  I explained the whole mess to the landowner. She was rightly furious because Housing had lost her 6 months of rent.  She called Housing and pitched a fit. It took about half an hour and was fairly entertaining but in the end, my Lt got her apartment.

 

Moral of the story:  The native speaker could be worth his weight in gold.

 

Oh good grief!  Wow.    We know a few people who are very good with Italian...every one of them will have helped us with this house after today.  

 

I feel like death this morning (I had a bit extra wine last night to help me fall asleep...I now need tylenol and some water...and still feel exhausted).  I have to leave in a little over an hour.  It's going to be a fun (not-so-much) morning!  I'll update later.

 

Thank you everyone, I do appreciate the prayers and support.  

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TravelingChris

TravelingChris

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What a difference a different NAto place can be depending on the country.  We were stationed in Belgium and there were no problems letting us choose what we wanted.  There were some Belgian formalities= getting the lease approved or stamped or something like that at a municipal office,  but everyone we knew there got into houses they mostly liked as fast as they wanted.  We waited until our fast goods arrived and used the military furnishing office to get the temporary furniture until our general household goods arrived.

 

I am so sorry about your troubles, Lisa, and since you are probably dealing with it right now at your time, I said a prayer that things will go okay.

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Lanny

Lanny

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I worked on a Torpedo project once, so your thread title really got my attention. I am including your family in my prayers and hope you get this fixed to your satisfaction, ASAP. It does sound like corruption. The only valid reason for this sabotage would be if they know something about the Landlord, or the neighborhood, that would be dangerous for the security of your family. Your DH should be asking his employer for help with this, along with the other people you have mentioned. My wife, like "Mom in High Heels" mentioned, would have exploded and they would have heard her yelling, in DC...

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Sebastian (a lady)

Sebastian (a lady)

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We believe it's because we didn't use one of their Realtors (we're civilians...and don't have to, moreover we can get referrals from friends, and the friend who helped us out initially is an American stationed here).  So, the rumored kick-backs we've been told about weren't getting paid.

 

 

There is a Housing Director (the office is overseen by US personnel...but pretty much everyone working there are local Italians).  The pre-contract phase went relatively smooth (I was terrified they were going to muck it up), At first they were telling him there we didn't have the money -- until my husband explained he had 6 dependents, so they called HR, and were given the amount we were told we had (4,000 euro).  We are escalating the situation today.  My husband's chain of command is getting involved, co-worker (fluent in Italian), and we'll be getting all of the information written down.  At that point, letters will be sent to the base CO and the Housing Director.  I don't know if it will do any good, but I'm also going to send a CC to our Congressman and Senators...  

 

All of the houses have to be registered (and inspected) by housing.  There are certain places that Americans are NOT allowed to rent (health reasons), and certain requirements (safety/water/anti-theft) that must be met.  Some safety things (like an extra fence around the pool...inside the exterior fence...or fencing on retaining walls) we can waive.  

 

 

 

That's what Atillio (the Italian who was translating for us with the Landlord) was thinking...

 

 

 

 

Yeah...I've heard about the kickbacks...they keep telling Americans they aren't happening...but Realtors in the system (and local nationals) will tell you differently.

 

 

Thanks...

 

 

 

Yup...this.

 

 

Oh good grief!  Wow.    We know a few people who are very good with Italian...every one of them will have helped us with this house after today.  

 

I feel like death this morning (I had a bit extra wine last night to help me fall asleep...I now need tylenol and some water...and still feel exhausted).  I have to leave in a little over an hour.  It's going to be a fun (not-so-much) morning!  I'll update later.

 

Thank you everyone, I do appreciate the prayers and support.  

 

Don't forget the Waste, Fraud & Abuse hotline. If the employees in the housing office are acting improperly, they need to be called on it. There is a lot of stuff around the base that isn't right because so many people have shrugged their shoulders and let it be.  (I'm thinking of one particular senior officer from several years back. Not saying that you aren't doing enough.)

 

So when you do get housing. Don't let the housing office actions lie. If the base command structure doesn't act, move it along.

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LisaKinVA

LisaKinVA

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Forgive my ignorance, but if you're civilians why can't you just go out and rent your own place? Why does it need to go through a housing office and be approved if you're not even military?

 

We only receive our housing allowance if we go through the housing office.  Without our housing allowance, we can't afford to live here.

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LisaKinVA

LisaKinVA

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Well...we've done everything we can from our end to salvage this deal.  If he's worried about damage, there are no excuses.  Our insurance will cover damages to the house up to $500,000 (360.000 euro...we used the example of our kids putting a huge gauge in the specialty-parquet floors, and it costing $10,000 to repair...and they said "yes, it is covered").  The entire contents of the house (including the furniture we will not be using) are worth $250,000...so it's covered.

 

In the meantime, we're putting things up the chain.  

 

Our best, worst-case scenario is to be granted a temporary lease somewhere...and wait for the PCS season to begin again...and hope we get lucky.  Otherwise, I'm stuck in a hotel...paying 3.000 euro a month for the privilege of living  in 800 sq. ft. on a 4th floor attic.  

 

That's all I have right now.  

 

Bummed.

 

Lisa

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creekland

creekland

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Well...we've done everything we can from our end to salvage this deal.  If he's worried about damage, there are no excuses.  Our insurance will cover damages to the house up to $500,000 (360.000 euro...we used the example of our kids putting a huge gauge in the specialty-parquet floors, and it costing $10,000 to repair...and they said "yes, it is covered").  The entire contents of the house (including the furniture we will not be using) are worth $250,000...so it's covered.

 

In the meantime, we're putting things up the chain.  

 

Our best, worst-case scenario is to be granted a temporary lease somewhere...and wait for the PCS season to begin again...and hope we get lucky.  Otherwise, I'm stuck in a hotel...paying 3.000 euro a month for the privilege of living  in 800 sq. ft. on a 4th floor attic.  

 

That's all I have right now.  

 

Bummed.

 

Lisa

 

Thanks for the update - wish it were a little better... and hoping it WILL get better.  What an ordeal!

 

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LisaKinVA

LisaKinVA

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So...last update on this thread (unless there is a Christmas miracle...lol).  We are moving on.  I don't believe there is any way to salvage the deal at this point.  So, we are urgently looking for accommodations.  We may have to move into a short-term lease arrangement, because our temporary housing will not cover the hotel we are currently occupying.  I have to go somewhere by January 2nd.

 

I have officially started drinking this evening....one glass down...half a bottle to go!  A girl has to get some sleep somehow!

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creekland

creekland

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So...last update on this thread (unless there is a Christmas miracle...lol).  We are moving on.  I don't believe there is any way to salvage the deal at this point.  So, we are urgently looking for accommodations.  We may have to move into a short-term lease arrangement, because our temporary housing will not cover the hotel we are currently occupying.  I have to go somewhere by January 2nd.

 

I have officially started drinking this evening....one glass down...half a bottle to go!  A girl has to get some sleep somehow!

 

Sorry to hear that, but hopefully something better will turn up.  In times like these I like to believe that "what's meant to be is meant to be."  I have no idea for sure, of course, but it's what I like to believe.

 

Best wishes for the new search.

 

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Sebastian (a lady)

Sebastian (a lady)

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So...last update on this thread (unless there is a Christmas miracle...lol).  We are moving on.  I don't believe there is any way to salvage the deal at this point.  So, we are urgently looking for accommodations.  We may have to move into a short-term lease arrangement, because our temporary housing will not cover the hotel we are currently occupying.  I have to go somewhere by January 2nd.

 

I have officially started drinking this evening....one glass down...half a bottle to go!  A girl has to get some sleep somehow!

 

I know this is terribly frustrating. The only consolation I can give is that after housing soured the landlord on you, you might be better off not having talked him into renting to you. There is a good chance that he would have always been biased against you in things like damages or making timely repairs/replacements to appliances. Move on.

 

However, I would document every little interaction you have with the housing office from here on out. You can decide what you do with it after you are in housing and have unpacked.

 

There are great overseas bases and there are bases that have some real issues. Sometimes it's the area. Sometimes it is a toxic commander who refuses to stand up for the servicemembers, families and civilian employees.  And sometimes a toxic commander's effect can long outlast his individual tour.

 

Sorry you have to deal with the non-sense.

 

BTW, we only visited friends in Naples. But we had one of the best trips of our lives while we were there. Getting to visit Pompeii, Herculaneum, Ostia, Rome (ah, the Vatican :thumbup1:) not to mention the wonderful food...

 

If you can get your hands on any of the Tim Parks books about living in Italy, I would recommend them. My Italian Neighbors was one of my favorites. An Italian Education is also good. (I didn't like his fiction, though.)

 

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