creekland Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Live and let live. If this is what they want to do, I'd go and enjoy it with them knowing they get to make the choices for their lives just as I get to make the choices for mine. If you sincerely think they are doing this solely for greed reasons, then I might slip a bit on the gift, but only then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Why is it bad to admit that you have an issue with someone's behavior?? How is that judgmental? Had the OP said that she didn't want to throw a party for two people so clearly doomed to Hell, that would be judgmental. ETA--this would annoy me because it feels like a gift grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental. Bear with me, just trying to walk through my emotions on this and no, I'm not really sure I have the right attitude. At this point it feels like they're saying, "Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families. Come celebrate with us." So celebrate them finally doing the right thing :-) It's a family party. Get dressed up and enjoy it. I mean, they're married now. What more could they do to appease you? There's no point in holding a grudge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Your own feelings are of course your own to choose. But it would be IMO very selfish of you to allow your negative views of your niece's choices in her personal life to contaminate the experience for the happy couple or other family members. Personally, I think it would be best if you could set your religious judgements of them aside in order to genuinely help them celebrate. If that's not possible, at least be polite and keep your feelings to yourself. If that's not possible, then don't participate. I need to preface this by saying that I am a conservative Christian and I believe that living together before marriage isn't the way God means for it to be. So, my niece is getting married. They've been living together for about five years and did secretly get married (for pragmatic reasons) about a year ago. No one is supposed to know that though. For my brother's sake I'd like to go to the wedding, but it grates on me to be part of something that is going to be done as this huge happy celebration and I just see it as being disrespectful to her parents' beliefs and a huge farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Maybe she's just trying to make them happy. Maybe she and her fiancée just want to celebrate their marriage with their friends and family, who were obviously not part of the secret, civil marriage. :iagree: I had a civil marriage because that is what we wanted which only our parents and siblings attended. We had two wedding parties after that because our extended family is huge and my in-laws insisted on the parties. Your niece may want a wedding party to celebrate and have good memories of, or your brother and his wife might be the one suggesting the party. Either way just go and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I can empathize. My niece also had a secret marriage. They did theirs in the ministers office, though. Then they only told a few people and then moved in together, which they also hid from most people. They had a "church wedding" a few months later. I didn't understand the lying part at all, since I found out they were living together but didn't find out about the first wedding until after the second wedding had taken place. The lie was the most upsetting thing and has had long term repercussions for the entire family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Private civil ceremonies prior t big family weddings are very common in the military - I know at least 20 couples that have done this for practical reasons, but still wanted to have the big family wedding when they could. The civil ceremony is more for legal purposes (healthcare, housing, military benefits (especially with deployments), whereas they see the church/family wedding as the more important of the two services. I'm sure it can seem odd to many people, but I guess because I've heard of so many, it doesn't seem to be a big deal to me. As for the rest, well - I hope the OP can work through her problems with the marriage, realize they are not the couples' problems, and go enjoy celebrating with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 In our case we eloped and only had a big wedding type reception and ceremony 1 year later to please our families, namely my mother. It was in no way a gift grab (we didn't register) and we paid for the whole thing ourselves. I had no need for a wedding but my mother really wanted to have the day and the pictures and the dress to remember. We didn't keep this a secret from anyone though. People knew we were already married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think that if you really are against your niece's choices and feel so strongly, you should not go. I would not want an aunt who thought so badly about my lifestlye choices coming to my wedding so reluctantly and putting on a fake happy face. That being said, life is too short. Live and let live. To each his own way. It's NOT my way or the highway etc etc etc. You get the point. Everyone makes their own choices in life and they have their own reasons for doing them. You can be happy for them or be unhappy about those choices and get out of their way. It is as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Excited? No, it's either in your heart or it's not. Pleasant, supportive of your brother, and giving every appearance of wishing the young couple the best? Yup. If you cannot bring yourself to that frame of mind, steer clear, though I hope that's not the case. Is there any reason not to wish them the best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I can understand your feelings on this since I believe the same way you do. I've had a really difficult time being happy for my cousin's daughters who both got pregnant outside of marriage. I'd never say anything directly to them, but am disappointed in them for their choices. They were raised the same way I was and the same way I raised my daughter. I just don't get why they feel ok with what they have done. It is a difficult place to be in for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 In our case we eloped and only had a big wedding type reception and ceremony 1 year later to please our families, namely my mother. It was in no way a gift grab (we didn't register) and we paid for the whole thing ourselves. I had no need for a wedding but my mother really wanted to have the day and the pictures and the dress to remember. We didn't keep this a secret from anyone though. People knew we were already married. This is what we did but without the dress. After we announced we had eloped some friends wanted to throw a party/reception for us. It never occurred to us that we would have one, but accepted the offer and had a great time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I can understand your feelings on this since I believe the same way you do. I've had a really difficult time being happy for my cousin's daughters who both got pregnant outside of marriage. I'd never say anything directly to them, but am disappointed in them for their choices. They were raised the same way I was and the same way I raised my daughter. I just don't get why they feel ok with what they have done. It is a difficult place to be in for you. I'm sure it is very hard for you, and rightfully so with your belief system (and theirs?), but once it happens, what is the alternative? I'm sure keeping the children was in your value system (rather than the alternative), and should the girls go around castigating themselves for the rest of their lives? Being ashamed forever? Wearing a scarlet letter on their chests? I'm actually saying that in a nice tone of voice, although I know it is hard to tell, but my point is just that, good people make mistakes. No matter if they regret them or wish they could change their decisions, what is done is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PentecostalMom Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I need to preface this by saying that I am a conservative Christian and I believe that living together before marriage isn't the way God means for it to be. So, my niece is getting married. They've been living together for about five years and did secretly get married (for pragmatic reasons) about a year ago. No one is supposed to know that though. For my brother's sake I'd like to go to the wedding, but it grates on me to be part of something that is going to be done as this huge happy celebration and I just see it as being disrespectful to her parents' beliefs and a huge farce. I haven't read any other responses, but as a conservative Christian I think you should go. Jesus would go. Jesus loves us in spite of our shortcomings, he doesn't reject us. If you are the representation of Jesus in their lives, be Jesus. Be humble, and happy, and loving, and caring, and forgiving. Let it go. You won't regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I can understand your feelings on this since I believe the same way you do. I've had a really difficult time being happy for my cousin's daughters who both got pregnant outside of marriage. I'd never say anything directly to them, but am disappointed in them for their choices. They were raised the same way I was and the same way I raised my daughter. I just don't get why they feel ok with what they have done. It is a difficult place to be in for you. Some would say the same about divorces. We all try to do our best. A baby is a baby in or out of marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I just don't understand why you are seeing this as such a bad thing. Isn't it what you wanted, a "legitimate" relationship? Are you going to forever be disappointed in your niece because of something she did in the past? Because honestly, that's what this is now. She co-habitated, but that was in the past and now she's married. As for this being a second wedding, I would not jump to the conclusion that it's driven by greed. How many couples would love to elope but feel like they need to do the whole big wedding thing just to include their families? I know I would have happily eloped if my mom didn't demand the big wedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I can understand your feelings on this since I believe the same way you do. I've had a really difficult time being happy for my cousin's daughters who both got pregnant outside of marriage. I'd never say anything directly to them, but am disappointed in them for their choices. They were raised the same way I was and the same way I raised my daughter. I just don't get why they feel ok with what they have done. It is a difficult place to be in for you. Even though I think we share the same belief system (I'm a Bible believing Christian), I see this differently than you. We all make mistakes; we all stumble and fall. Some people's sin is more public. However, in my opinion, choosing to have the baby is something to rejoice over, as I believe abortion is wrong. (I do not wish to discuss this topic with anyone here who differs in my viewpoint. Against board rules.) I would also rejoice in a mother who carried her baby to term and gave it up for adoption, as I think this is one of the most selfless acts a mother could make. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. However, we can take responsibility for our sin, confess it, and move on. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental. Bear with me, just trying to walk through my emotions on this and no, I'm not really sure I have the right attitude. At this point it feels like they're saying, "Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families. Come celebrate with us." If you want to encourage values closer to your own, you celebrate steps on that direction. As such, wedding ceremony and public marriage being them in closer alignment to your ideals. Go. Enjoy. Celebrate their marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 If you want to encourage values closer to your own, you celebrate steps on that direction. As such, wedding ceremony and public marriage being them in closer alignment to your ideals. Go. Enjoy. Celebrate their marriage. This is what I was thinking. Why would you NOT celebrate something that brings them back into your fold, so to speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 This is what I was thinking. Why would you NOT celebrate something that brings them back into your fold, so to speak? Right. Because not going is essentially a statement against their past choices. Since the wedding amends the choices, not attending then becomes a judgemental statement of past behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I have nieces and nephew making different choices than I would like to see in their life knowing their circumstances. I choose to love them and never, ever judge or let them know how I feel about their choices just love and support, positive encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I need to preface this by saying that I am a conservative Christian and I believe that living together before marriage isn't the way God means for it to be. So, my niece is getting married. They've been living together for about five years and did secretly get married (for pragmatic reasons) about a year ago. No one is supposed to know that though. For my brother's sake I'd like to go to the wedding, but it grates on me to be part of something that is going to be done as this huge happy celebration and I just see it as being disrespectful to her parents' beliefs and a huge farce. Hmm... well, I don't have a problem with living together before marriage, but I do have a problem with people getting married -- eloping, secret wedding, what-have-you -- and then throwing another wedding without telling people they are already married. To me, that is a lie. What you (speaking of the married/wedding people) are doing is all a lie. I am not invited to your wedding. You already had your wedding. I am just being invited to a big party that looks like a wedding, and when I do find out that you've lied and that isn't your wedding after all, I am going to resent your cash/present grab party and be very suspicious of anything you tell me from there on out. I will not be rude and call you out on it, but be assured that I will not trust you anymore because you used a party to play me for a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Are we long-lost relations? I had exactly this same situation just a few months back. Only, oddly the couple themselves were what I would call very conservative Christians. But yes, they lived together, got married "secretly", forbid anyone in on the secret from discussing it, then had the big church wedding. I thought it was strange mainly because these weren't 18-year-olds, but a couple in their mid 30's and early 40's. It was just weird to me. Anyway, I smiled, I attended the wedding, I gave a gift. All was good. But I understand that feeling of being party to a deception. It didn't sit right with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I should also state that dd was married three weeks before her wedding. When she found out she needed emergency, major surgery and that the doctor suspected cancer, she really wanted to be married in case something went wrong on the operating table and she never came to, and so that her beloved was in charge of her medical decisions taking into account their future life together. So, they married in our pastor's office. All of the family members knew and most of the guests knew by the time they had the wedding. I wanted to cancel the wedding out of concern that three weeks was not enough recovery time. However, since many people from out of state had plane tickets and non-refundable hotel rooms which would mean they could not come for a celebration of any kind at a later date, and dh would not be able to get time off from work for the rest of the summer prior to their move to NJ, it made sense to go ahead with it. We heard no complaints from any corner. As it turns out, due to military service, a number of our family members were legally married before there was a wedding or celebration. I suppose that it would seem odd to many that there was still a ceremony and reception held for family and friends. But, in each case, some one was going to be deployed and, well, anything can happen in war. So, it was a time to cherish...but with the need to get spouses on the life and health insurance, and what not, doing the legal paperwork ahead of time made sense. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I should also state that dd was married three weeks before her wedding. When she found out she needed emergency, major surgery and that the doctor suspected cancer, she really wanted to be married in case something went wrong on the operating table and she never came to, and so that her beloved was in charge of her medical decisions taking into account their future life together. So, they married in our pastor's office. All of the family members knew and most of the guests knew by the time they had the wedding. I wanted to cancel the wedding out of concern that three weeks was not enough recovery time. However, since many people from out of state had plane tickets and non-refundable hotel rooms which would mean they could not come for a celebration of any kind at a later date, and dh would not be able to get time off from work for the rest of the summer prior to their move to NJ, it made sense to go ahead with it. We heard no complaints from any corner. As it turns out, due to military service, a number of our family members were legally married before there was a wedding or celebration. I suppose that it would seem odd to many that there was still a ceremony and reception held for family and friends. But, in each case, some one was going to be deployed and, well, anything can happen in war. So, it was a time to cherish...but with the need to get spouses on the life and health insurance, and what not, doing the legal paperwork ahead of time made sense. Faith I don't have any problems with situations like those. :-) I think the OP's problem is not just that the happy couple are legally married already; it's that they've been shacking up for several years already, and their legal marriage has been kept secret, which makes it seems as if (1) they don't care about their parents' Christian beliefs or they wouldn't have been shacking up, and (2) that they are angling for presents. Neither of those may be true; it just looks that way to the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavender's green Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I haven't read all the replies... Today I am much more conservative than I used to be and generally hold the OP's views. But, in my less conservative days, DH and I lived together for a few months before we got married. Obviously I've really changed since then. I have regrets. But, I had to arrive at all this myself, and no relative's opinions on my wedding day would have helped me. I think it would be helpful to remind yourself that she lives in a culture where a lot of people see nothing wrong with these things, and that something is wrong with you if you do. It's a great temptation, and she fell for it. I think that we can judge but still be compassionate. I'd put a smile on and enjoy the party, and hope that it's all a step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I was legally married before I had my wedding. In my mind they are two separate things. One was done in a chapel and was just dh, I, and the minister. The other included the dress, guests, cake, food, and a celebration with all our loved ones. We did things that way because dh was in the military and we lived so far from our families that the actual wedding took a long time to plan so everyone could be together (our families were far from us and all in different places). Some of our family now knows we were married prior to our wedding and some don't. None of those who know the truth seem to care at all. I'll forever be grateful that we had the wedding because I lost two of my immediate family members (one being my dad) the following year. I'm glad I still had my dad walk me down the aisle while he was in a tux and I in my frilly white gown. ETA: Just because we chose the big wedding later doesn't mean we were angling for presents either. We didn't register anywhere. We wanted to have the wedding later to celebrate with our loved ones. We wanted the marriage earlier because that was important to the two of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen State Sue Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I think it is kind of neat that they obviously loved each other 5 years ago to share a life together, still loved each other 1 year ago enough to want to get married, and now after all this time still want to get married again. Celebrate their love and their desire to confirm their love in front of their family and friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I don't expect non-believers to live like believers. If you hold to a fairly conservative set of Christin beliefs, then you would have to agree that it's not possible for unbelievers to live in obedience to God, right? Just remember how hard it can be for those of us with the Holy Spirit. If we were asked to make a judgement call for everything going on in the culture then we'd never stop talking and never get anything done. To be clear, I think you're being invited to attend the wedding as a family member and you're not being asked to approve of lifestyle choices and sexual behaviors before their legal or celebration marriage. If they are interested in knowing your views on pre-marital sex, they'll ask you privately, in which case you can feel free detail your views using Scripture. As to them not wanting relatives to know about their legal marriage, I would advise them to grow up. We need to stop raising children to be adults who need approval from all the relatives for things like getting married, parenting style, homeschooling, etc. Be an adult. Make your choices and be prepared to live with the consequences good, bad or neutral. If you can't handle disapproval that then you're not ready to handle all that comes with marriage, children, life in the adult world, etc.If you're old enough to legally marry and already have, just tell people and take what comes with it. If someone asked me, I would encourage them to get legally married for practical reasons and then plan a big formal anniversary celebration for everyone later. It's weird to me to make it a wedding later rather than an anniversary celebration. Not that I think it's a huge big deal to have a wedding celebration with all the froof and fluff and formality later but it seems odd to me to call it a wedding. I think anniversary celebration is more accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I didn't read all the replies... but are you sure they didn't swap nose rings, or she didn't give him her nose ring? It didn't take too terribly much to be "married" in ancient times :) I think modern day marriages and long, lengthy engagements are a bit much...I think a personal commitment between the two is what makes someone "married" and not a silly piece of paper. Anyway, walking away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 If they invite you to witness their wedding, you should go. If they invite you to witness them cohabitating, or fornicating, you should not go :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Archconservative Christian here... :) I would see the wedding as the couple trying to set something right. I would go, with a smile.. (I've been in this situation before.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I need to preface this by saying that I am a conservative Christian and I believe that living together before marriage isn't the way God means for it to be. So, my niece is getting married. They've been living together for about five years and did secretly get married (for pragmatic reasons) about a year ago. No one is supposed to know that though. For my brother's sake I'd like to go to the wedding, but it grates on me to be part of something that is going to be done as this huge happy celebration and I just see it as being disrespectful to her parents' beliefs and a huge farce. I don't understand how getting married is disrespectful to her parents' beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom@shiloh Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 So many replies! I can see that I didn't necessarily say here exactly what I wanted to say, but rather took my churning emotions, dumped them on the table, stirred them up and sorted them out with your help. Thank you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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