S/O Modesty threads--arms

[Moxie]

As I've said here in the past, we don't use the word "modesty" in this house because I find it guilt-inducing and judgmental. We do have family standards--no private part showing and we don't wear things that make normal life uncomfortable (low tops you can't bend over in, short shorts you are constantly pulling at, etc.). We dress pretty normal. Swimsuits on the beach, shorts in the summer, etc. I could be a prude or a floozy, depending on who I am standing next to! One thing I've never understood in the modesty thread is the insistence on "no sleeveless". A recent thread even mentioned that boy shirts are better because the sleeves are longer. Help me understand this. I've never seen an arm fetish site and I've never heard of a man who is attracted to arms. Why are sleeves so important??

[JumpyTheFrog]

Some sleeveless shirts tend to pull away and show a woman's bra or breasts at the side or near the armpit. Perhaps that's why some people have that rule.

[KungFuPanda]

It's because my super-hot middle-aged arms will cause young men to stumble. I personally think an exposed bra strap looks more tacky than tempting, so if I go sleeveless I generally wear a strapless bra or sew one in to the garment. My books are small enough to get away with this.

 

At what point did young men become so clumsy anyway?

[Moxie]

Some sleeveless shirts tend to pull away and show a woman's bra or breasts at the side or near the armpit. Perhaps that's why some people have that rule.

Perhaps but I doubt it. I own a lot of sleeveless and my books and bra never show.

[Shahrazad]

Most men are driven crazy by the sight of armpits. Even crazier if it has been a few days, you've got a bit of stubble coming in, and there is some deodorant powder residue. You might disagree but that is just because you don't really know men or what they want.

 

Edited because site is not sight ;).

[unsinkable]

Some sleeveless shirts tend to pull away and show a woman's bra or breasts at the side or near the armpit. Perhaps that's why some people have that rule.

 

 

Side Boob Happens

[Luanne]

It really depends on the shirt. I haven't seen very many sleeveless shirts around anymore that don't show at least part of your bra though.

[nmoira]

 

 

Side Boob Happens

 

 

Perhaps side hugs aren't a good idea then...

[beaners]

I don't know, but even when my arms are big and flabby, they look better in a sleeveless top than in something that only shows half of the arm. The way most shirts cut off in the middle of your bicep makes you look much heavier. When I'm actually in shape and my arms are toned, they look good in either. I'm sure it's immodest to say this, but I like the way my body looks, and I don't mind some of it to show. Not in a sexual way, but in the same way I like seeing my children's arms or legs or cute little tummies. (Although mine isn't as flat and smooth as theirs anymore, and that's okay too.) People are nice to look at.

[Mom-ninja.]

If my bra shows I either have the arm hole altered or wear a cami (usually half cami) to cover my bra.

[Hikin' Mama]

I could be a prude or a floozy, depending on who I am standing next to!

 

 

True that! I thought I was modest until I read the modest dress thread. :)

[Chris in VA]

I don't know, honestly. All I can think of when I see the young women wearing close-fitting, long-sleeved t shirts layered under regular shirts around here is how darned hot they must feel. But, I still don't like tank tops in church. Go figure.

[nmoira]

I lived through the 70s and seeing testicles popped out of those mens' short shorts. (Why do men sit like that???) I find it difficult to get worked up about a glimpse of fabric.

[plansrme]

I lived through the 70s and seeing testicles popped out of those mens' short shorts. (Why do men sit like that???) I find it difficult to get worked up about a glimpse of fabric.

 

 

Are nominations for Post of the Day open yet? 'Cause we have a candidate...

[Orthodox6]

Neither men nor women in Orthodox churches wear sleeveless shirts/tops or dresses in church. I do not know the reason, but it does not matter. It is a miniscule request to make of people, and not worth fussing against it.

 

At monasteries (both men's and women's), both male and female visitors must wear long sleeves when on the monastery grounds. Again, no big deal.

[Anne in CA]

I let dd go to church in a tank top today. Hope no one stumbles, but it is HOT and she will be holding babies in the nursery and needs to be comfortable.

[Arcadia]

One thing I've never understood in the modesty thread is the insistence on "no sleeveless". A recent thread even mentioned that boy shirts are better because the sleeves are longer.

 

I don't know about the connection with modesty. However I do follow the rules/dress code of the place e.g. wearing long sleeve top and long pants/skirt when visiting buddhist temples, mosques and any place that requires that.

Boys shirts/jackets sleeves are indeed longer and fits me better than girls shirts/jackets sleeves if I buy off the rack.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I read /skimmed a psychology book in high school. I don't remember the name of it but I remember it said it was written by the author of "The Naked Ape." It talked about why certain things are considered sexual / arousing /attractive to men. That's where I learned about lipstick is suppose to make women look aroused. Shoulders and knees are supposedly attractive because they are round and remind men of breasts. Not sure how much of that is true, but I'll tell you dh loves my exposed shoulders and neck area when I wear a spaghetti strap top (at home.)

[SarahW]

I read /skimmed a psychology book in high school. I don't remember the name of it but I remember it said it was written by the author of "The Naked Ape." It talked about why certain things are considered sexual / arousing /attractive to men. That's where I learned about lipstick is suppose to make women look aroused. Shoulders and knees are supposedly attractive because they are round and remind men of breasts. Not sure how much of that is true, but I'll tell you dh loves my exposed shoulders and neck area when I wear a spaghetti strap top (at home.)

 

In some Middle Eastern cultures bare shoulders are considered erotic, so tank tops are immodest. I don't understand it. I just know that it sucked when I was there during summer.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I lived through the 70s and seeing testicles popped out of those mens' short shorts. (Why do men sit like that???) I find it difficult to get worked up about a glimpse of fabric.

 

:ohmy: :thumbdown: That is so gross. I'm so glad I wasn't alive back then!

[shanvan]

Most men are driven crazy by the sight of armpits. Even crazier if it has been a few days, you've got a bit of stubble coming in, and there is some deodorant powder residue. You might disagree but that is just because you don't really know men or what they want.

 

Edited because site is not sight ;).

 

:smilielol5: I probably shouldn't think this is hilarious (trying to respectful of other's standards) but I just had a good laugh over this one, and I love sleeveless shirts. I am trying to picture my husband going crazy at the site of me coming in from garden work in my sleeveless shirt with sweat dripping down my face and streaks of dirt everywhere.

 

ETA: Also want to clarify that I am not well-endowed so my shirts cover all the important parts well. Nothing hanging out and no bra straps showing.

[Shahrazad]

 

:smilielol5: I probably shouldn't think this is hilarious (trying to respectful of other's standards) but I just had a good laugh over this one, and I love sleeveless shirts. I am trying to picture my husband going crazy at the site of me coming in from garden work in my sleeveless shirt with sweat dripping down my face and streaks of dirt everywhere.

 

Don't feel bad for finding it hilarious ;) . I wear long sleeves for religious reasons though I don't think sleeveless shirts are by nature immodest or skanky. I just don't think armpits are sexy LOL and when I read the topic that was the exact imagery that came to my mind. I would agree that bare shoulders can be sexy but a boat neck/wide neck top would be more likely to be attractive than a good view of my pits IMO.

[Spryte]

Most men are driven crazy by the sight of armpits. Even crazier if it has been a few days, you've got a bit of stubble coming in, and there is some deodorant powder residue. You might disagree but that is just because you don't really know men or what they want.

 

 

:lol:

 

 

My sister's family must cover their elbows (the girls, not the guys). 3/4 length sleeves are as high as they'll go. They have rules regarding the ever-erotic collarbone, as well. They are OJ. I have asked the reasoning behind various rules, but the only answer I get is, "It's the Law," so that's that. I don't know why, and asking further only makes them feel they are being put under a microscope by the anthropologist sister/aunt/SIL. So I don't ask much anymore.

 

FWIW, when I go to their home or to events with them, I try to dress as they do, out of respect. My other sister, though, tends to ignore the dress code, which makes for some entertaining moments.

[Spryte]

 

:ohmy: :thumbdown: That is so gross. I'm so glad I wasn't alive back then!

 

 

 

And now I officially feel old. :leaving:

[Guest]

...Why are sleeves so important??

 

I guess to help hide boobage. So men aren't like this: :drool5: :001_tt1: You know, since they can't control themselves.

[Shahrazad]

:lol:

 

 

My sister's family must cover their elbows (the girls, not the guys). 3/4 length sleeves are as high as they'll go. They have rules regarding the ever-erotic collarbone, as well. They are OJ. I have asked the reasoning behind various rules, but the only answer I get is, "It's the Law," so that's that. I don't know why, and asking further only makes them feel they are being put under a microscope by the anthropologist sister/aunt/SIL. So I don't ask much anymore.

 

FWIW, when I go to their home or to events with them, I try to dress as they do, out of respect. My other sister, though, tends to ignore the dress code, which makes for some entertaining moments.

 

Spryte, you know, I can actually get that. When people ask me why I cover, I know that a lot of other people respond that it is because it is protection or to be judged by personality, not appearance...and so on. I do think there is some wisdom and benefits behind it but for me I feel like those things could probably be argued and for me, the real reason is that it is ordered in our holy book. I always do wonder if when I give that answer people are put out wanting a more anthropological answer so it was interesting to hear your take. For me, I just give that reason because I don't believe that tank tops (or clothes items in general) are inherently immodest or that they lead to dangerous situations and I think among the private company of women, family members, and my husband I probably dress more immodestly than many members here so it isn't a personal opposition. On the other hand, I will say that HERE, I don't think any man will get worked up over the sight of one's upper arm but if you're living in a society where almost everyone covers, people tend to look to what is exposed. So for example, if you live in a very conservative area where the majority covers their body, hair, face, and even their hands and you don't cover your hands then men (who are completely deprived of "eye-candy" lol) may focus on that feature as attractive. In this setting I've actually heard of men finding a woman (who they have no idea what she actually looks like) attractive because she had really pretty hands, was wearing a nice ring, had her nails nicely done or maybe some henna...etc. It seems weird in a way but I guess that would make sense anthropologically?

 

I don't get bothered by people dressing "immodestly" around me at all. That being said, I get annoyed by the attitude when people are trying to make a point. For the Muslim holiday of Eid, often the whole mosque goes and does their prayers outside at a park. One year, there was a group of younger college-age people who were at the park. They were wearing bikinis and cover-ups (no problem) BUT when they saw the environment, a couple of the girls started giggling, took off their cover ups so they were only in tiny bikinis and walked specifically up to the area where a bunch of the more conservative men were sitting around and started making 'small-talk' complete with looking over to the women's table and placing hands on some of the guys' shoulders (a no-no for us). The guys were uncomfortable but they didn't want to be rude and be a bad example or fulfill some Muslim stereotype by expressing their discomfort. The women were uncomfortable because it was really clear that these girls were purposely trying to make a point. Most of us just decided not to address it but the one woman who got mad enough to go up to them and confront them to ask them to be respectful was a woman who doesn't cover at all. So, it was really only the attitude and not the dress at all.

 

Now, enough being serious. I want to go back to my snark ;)

[Matryoshka]

I have some big bOOks, and I have no trouble finding sleeveless shirts/dresses that don't show side-boobs or my bra, so I'm not sure why that's an issue for so many. I don't wear tanks or spaghetti strap shirts, that would be a problem. I shy away from sleeveless them because of the arm-flab. My middle-aged flabby arms look better with cap sleeves (not halfway down the arm). Except when it's really hot (say, 90+ and humid), then I just don't care - to heck with modesty or embarrassment about the arm-flab. For some reason I'm 100% hotter with even a small cap sleeve than sleeveless.

[Word Nerd]

Whether I wear short sleeves or no sleeves is irrelevant unless I'm outside in the heat. Almost everywhere I go in the summer, the A/C is so cold I have to put on a cardigan or hoodie when I go inside anyway. I haven't had trouble finding tanks that fit, but I don't usually wear them.

[Spryte]

shahrazad, I can't imagine anyone ever being put out by your answers. They are always well thought out, kind, and understanding of others' good intentions in asking. At least from what I've seen here. :) I love reading your posts for that reason. Sometimes a shorter answer is more appropriate, sometimes people aren't looking for a discourse, or for thoughtful answers.

 

I do think, sometimes, my nieces and nephews probably lament the day they ended up with an ethnologist as an aunt. DH's Catholic family feels the same way! Over the years, thankfully, I've learned to curb my impulse to ask questions with some people, though, as I know that the asking makes them feel uncomfortable, even though my intent is usually just to understand and get to know them better. I think the last time I asked a question that warranted an answer along the lines of, "It's the Law," my sister's kids were really in transition to a stricter lifestyle. I think they were probably adjusting as well, and since they were really leading the transition, I know they had strong feelings about it. (For the sake of reference, they had never ridden in cars on Sat, but the moment when my niece panicked at the thought that nephew would accidentally touch our running car as we dropped something off really opened my eyes to the ways they were changing their lifestyle, and I asked...). Now I just do my best to accommodate any needs I know of, and love them. Differences make us a better, stronger family, and I don't have to understand the "whys" for each one.

[katilac]

I read /skimmed a psychology book in high school. I don't remember the name of it but I remember it said it was written by the author of "The Naked Ape." It talked about why certain things are considered sexual / arousing /attractive to men. That's where I learned about lipstick is suppose to make women look aroused. Shoulders and knees are supposedly attractive because they are round and remind men of breasts. Not sure how much of that is true, but I'll tell you dh loves my exposed shoulders and neck area when I wear a spaghetti strap top (at home.)

 

I'm going to have to doubt the whole book, because knees are not sexy.

[unfrumpable.]

It really depends on the shirt. I haven't seen very many sleeveless shirts around anymore that don't show at least part of your bra though.

 

 

I wear a lot of sleeveless and tank tops (it's summertime in Houston!) and none show my bra. If they did show my bra, I wouldn't wear them. Not for modesty's sake, but just because I think it's tacky for my bra strap or bra to be showing. I just don't like that for myself.

 

I was in line behind someone the other night who was wearing a racerback tank, solid in the front, see through lace in the back, with a hot pink non-racerback bra. Definitely tacky in my book. :) I see that a lot though along with people wearing regular bras with dresses and tops with spaghetti straps.

[KungFuPanda]

Don't feel bad for finding it hilarious ;) . I wear long sleeves for religious reasons though I don't think sleeveless shirts are by nature immodest or skanky. I just don't think armpits are sexy LOL and when I read the topic that was the exact imagery that came to my mind. I would agree that bare shoulders can be sexy but a boat neck/wide neck top would be more likely to be attractive than a good view of my pits IMO.

 

Speak for yourself. My pits, even unshaven, make men go wild with lust and desire. "Why yes, I AM a natural redhead . . .""

 

:ohmy: :thumbdown: That is so gross. I'm so glad I wasn't alive back then!

 

OFF MY LAWN WHIPPERSNAPPER !!!

 

Whether I wear short sleeves or no sleeves is irrelevant unless I'm outside in the heat. Almost everywhere I go in the summer, the A/C is so cold I have to put on a cardigan or hoodie when I go inside anyway. I haven't had trouble finding tanks that fit, but I don't usually wear them.

 

Ok, this is true. Here in the Mid Atlantic where it as decided to become a rainforest and pour every day, the humidity is 3000%. To combat this, every air conditioner is cranked. I'm freezing in my own home because I have a daughter with asthma and a husband and son who suffer from heat-induced crankiness. It's easier to wear a sweater and pay the bill than it is to live with the fallout of a hot, humid house.

[Orthodox6]

I wear a lot of sleeveless and tank tops (it's summertime in Houston!) and none show my bra. If they did show my bra, I wouldn't wear them. Not for modesty's sake, but just because I think it's tacky for my bra strap or bra to be showing. I just don't like that for myself.

 

I was raised (in deplorable Houston) with that same requirement that undergarments not show. To this day, I cannot wear a modern-day cami with lace at the top, under a shirt, because it looks exactly like the top of a slip or camisole which was, of course, supposed to be hidden from view. (Those without lace "feel" just fine!) This was the regular "way to dress" for everyone, not just for particular religious groups.

[Shahrazad]

Speak for yourself. My pits, even unshaven, make men go wild with lust and desire. "Why yes, I AM a natural redhead . . .""

 

 

Well, everyone knows that walking around with hairy pits really gets the fires burning. I mean, just go out like that in a nice tank top and make sure to conspicuously lift your arms. Men walking by will have their eyes just drawn to you, their whole faces light up, and their facial expressions are just priceless.

[nmoira]

Well, everyone knows that walking around with hairy pits really gets the fires burning. I mean, just go out like that in a nice tank top and make sure to conspicuously lift your arms. Men walking by will have their eyes just drawn to you, their whole faces light up, and their facial exp<b></b>ressions are just priceless.

 

I went out sleeveless with hairy pits last night, but nobody's face lit up. Then again, this is Portland so that doesn't make one stand out terribly.

[Shahrazad]

I went out sleeveless with hairy pits last night, but nobody's face lit up. Then again, this is Portland so that doesn't make one stand out terribly.

 

 

Portland is always the exception to every rule.

[Tarreymere]

 

Well, everyone knows that walking around with hairy pits really gets the fires burning. I mean, just go out like that in a nice tank top and make sure to conspicuously lift your arms. Men walking by will have their eyes just drawn to you, their whole faces light up, and their facial expressions are just priceless.

 

 

 

I am TOTALLY heading out to Walmart to buy some sleeveless tops!!! Who knew??? :laugh:

[Danestress]

It is interesting to me that so many people here are writing about what makes men ar

[Wendi]

I have some big bOOks, and I have no trouble finding sleeveless shirts/dresses that don't show side-boobs or my bra, so I'm not sure why that's an issue for so many. I don't wear tanks or spaghetti strap shirts, that would be a problem. I shy away from sleeveless them because of the arm-flab. My middle-aged flabby arms look better with cap sleeves (not halfway down the arm). Except when it's really hot (say, 90+ and humid), then I just don't care - to heck with modesty or embarrassment about the arm-flab. For some reason I'm 100% hotter with even a small cap sleeve than sleeveless.

 

 

I think it's a bigger problem when you have small shoulders and ribcage, but larger b00ks. That's the problem for me. If it's big enough not to be tight across the chest, the armholes are often cut too big. I only have a couple of sleeveless tops that I can wear without a camisole or tank top underneath. Which is annoying because when it's 118 degrees out, a sleeveless top can be very comfy.

[Veritaserum]

I like the straightforward answer that religiously-motivated "modest" (meaning more coverage) dress is due to religious Law. None of the other explanations (tempting men, self-respect, etc.) ring true and just seem to be justifications for following the religious rules. In my religious sect of origin, the dress code has become more strict in the past decade. While some people do admit that they follow the rules because they believe God requires it of them, others try to further explain or justify the abnormal (for our culture) dress as being superior because it prevents men from objectifying women (sorry, it doesn't) or shows that a woman respects herself (no, that's not something you can ascertain by the presence or lack of sleeves). The religiously-mandated undergarments worn by initiated adults of the sect currently have sleeves and are long enough to hit just above the knee. Therefore exterior clothing must have sleeves and be knee-length or longer. The religious undergarments of this sect used to go down the wrists and the ankles, but they were shortened due to changes in clothing styles. I think that change was in the 1910s or 1920s? Anyway, it really does seem to boil down to following one's religious rules in most cases.

[redsquirrel]

I live in Ithaca and started shaving my pits and legs just to stand out.

[UmMusa]

Help me understand this. I've never seen an arm fetish site and I've never heard of a man who is attracted to arms. Why are sleeves so important??

 

I think when it comes to 'modesty', more coverage=more modest.

 

Also, what Veritaserum said about it mostly boiling down to what one's religious system maps out as a guide.

 

I never equated covering myself with a man's fetish or what he 'might' find arousing. There are all types of men and all types of fetishes, so to me, I am at peace following what God has told me to do regardless of what any man thinks of it.

[OrganicAnn]

I have a feeling covering your arms was considered modest in the Middle Ages and we are just now beginning to question it.

[SarahW]

I have a feeling covering your arms was considered modest in the Middle Ages and we are just now beginning to question it.

 

 

Ha! This made me remember the line in The Magicians Nephew where Diggory's aunt is completely scandalized by Jadis's bare arms and believes that his uncle picked her up at a circus.

[Melissa in Australia]

Here just about everyone wears sleeveless in summer, and nobody cares if your bra strap is showing. Some people just wear a top that looks like a fancy bra and skip the top over it altogether.

[Melissa in Australia]

on a side note, this thread has just reminded me of something. When I was young and single ( a older teen) I always dressed in a very circumspect manner. I had a few tops with sleeves almost to the elbow, but very loose, when standing in front of the mirror they looked great. It was not until after I was married that DH told me that he always liked it when I wore that top to church, as when I raised my hand to answer questions he would glance over and see right up my sleeve and across my chest. :scared:

[Lizzie in Ma]

Speak for yourself. My pits, even unshaven, make men go wild with lust and desire. "Why yes, I AM a natural redhead . . .""

 

 

 

OFF MY LAWN WHIPPERSNAPPER !!!

 

 

 

Ok, this is true. Here in the Mid Atlantic where it as decided to become a rainforest and pour every day, the humidity is 3000%. To combat this, every air conditioner is cranked. I'm freezing in my own home because I have a daughter with asthma and a husband and son who suffer from heat-induced crankiness. It's easier to wear a sweater and pay the bill than it is to live with the fallout of a hot, humid house.

 

 

I love you. :D

[SarahW]

on a side note, this thread has just reminded me of something. When I was young and single ( a older teen) I always dressed in a very circumspect manner. I had a few tops with sleeves almost to the elbow, but very loose, when standing in front of the mirror they looked great. It was not until after I was married that DH told me that he always liked it when I wore that top to church, as when I raised my hand to answer questions he would glance over and see right up my sleeve and across my chest. :scared:

 

 

Uh-huh.

 

When I was a teen there was a push among some of the pious girls towards wearing oversized t-shirts. Sleeve length was the main reason, I think. The problem with that was that when the arm is held up horizontal it often caused a full side-flash.

 

I was a rebel who preferred my t-shirts to be M or S.

[Moxie]

Disclaimer: I haven't read the replies and don't know if my response fits in the direction of the thread.

 

The reason I don't wear sleeveless shirts is because they expose the shoulders, which many men find sensual and arousing. I'd just rather not attract that kind of attention, unless it's from my husband.

 

 

Thanks for your answer. Can we chat about it for a bit? Do you really think in our society, with so much half-naked advertising, and so many people wearing sleeveless tops and dresses, that men still find shoulders arousing? I mean, they are everywhere! Didn't the Victorians find ankles arousing because women always kept them covered? I would think the reverse is true also--shoulders are commonplace therefore not arousing. Interesting stuff!

[Ellie]

Thanks for your answer. Can we chat about it for a bit? Do you really think in our society, with so much half-naked advertising, and so many people wearing sleeveless tops and dresses, that men still find shoulders arousing? I mean, they are everywhere! Didn't the Victorians find ankles arousing because women always kept them covered? I would think the reverse is true also--shoulders are commonplace therefore not arousing. Interesting stuff!

 

 

During Colonial American times, women could show cleavage all day, but NOT elbows. o_0