Is patriotism a good thing?

[lil' maids in a row]

I have been chewing on this question for several months now and I can't find a satisfying answer. I 'm sure you folks will give me plenty to think about.

 

So is patriotism a morally good thing? I realize that it is a very powerful thing. I know that it is politically very good for a government and nation. I also realize that when this incredible power is exercised in a benevolent way that patriotism can seem very moral. But is it?

 

I am leaning toward thinking that patriotism is not a morally good thing. That while powerful, it often limits worthwhile criticism of govt. and military action. It also creates a powerful "us vs. them " dynamic that can take countries down a very immoral road.

 

I grew up in a very patriotic home and was very patriotic myself. I taught my country's history for years and loved it. Now that I am making decisions about what values to instill in my children I am not so sure that patriotism is one I want to pass down.

 

Any thoughts?

[Mrs Mungo]

I disagree that patriotism disallows criticism or necessarily creates an us vs them dynamic. Plenty of people in the US military work direct link with other nations to help and support one another. Plenty of them are critical of the government in appropriate ways. I think there are a lot of people who are inappropriate and disrespectful, but they also tend to be the most jingoistic in my experience.

[lil' maids in a row]

Good point Wendy. It is the dose that makes the poison.

[Shamzanne]

It also creates a powerful "us vs. them " dynamic that can take countries down a very immoral road.

 

 

This is the main reason I do not value patriotism. I don't get why I should care more for someone who lives in the US than a person from Mexico or Iraq. I'm not sure why so many people associate patriotism as a Christian value. My faith is what moves me to not care about political boundaries.

 

I am thankful to live in the United States and I am thankful for the religious freedom I enjoy, but it doesn't make me patriotic.

[Shahrazad]

I think there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. I think loving the place you're from and feeling a sense of loyalty is a good thing and its natural for you to have a greater affection for your homeland than anywhere else. I think unquestioning, blind following and disregarding one's own moral compass for the sake of this love is not necessarily a good thing, nor is it beneficial to think that your people are better than all others and your land is superior to every other and therefore deserves sovereignty.

[poppy]

I am a Patriot, I wil teach my kids that we live in a wonderful country, and that we have a grave responsibility as citizens to hold our gov't to the highest standards. Protect civil liberties, freedom of speech, freedom of the press. And that we should all serve, or honor those who do.

 

I will also teach my children (eventually) about the many dark chapters in our history, and about good things we can learn from other countries.

 

I will not teach them that we live in the greatest country on earth. It is not a competition, and it's not about nationalism, and it's not about putting down others to feel superior. I will tell them they can be proud to be Americans.

[Georgiana Daniels]

I think it depends on one's definition of patriotism--my definition might be different than yours. Balance, as with almost anything, is key.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I disagree that patriotism disallows criticism or necessarily creates an us vs them dynamic.

 

 

Exactly. I think the OP has a different definition of patriotism.

[lil' maids in a row]

I suppose the easiest example to illustrate what I am thinking of is the pledge of allegiance. Having 1st graders promise their allegiance to their country seems a bit much to me. On the other hand, teaching a first grader about Abraham Lincoln in order to instill a wholesome pride in his country seems appropriate.

 

 

[regentrude]

Yes and no.

Pride in one's country and the will to serve, uphold the constitution, work for the good of the country etc - yes, a good thing.

Believing one's country is above all others and other nations are inferior - horrible. (The Nazis' slogan was "Germany above all ". So I am very wary of too much national pride.)

 

Whenever "patriotism" means that one considers the own country as infallible, perfect and without room for improvement, and refuses to learn from how problems are solved elsewhere in the world, and when anybody who wants to improve or change things is accused of not being patriotic, then it has gone too far and become detrimental.

[poppy]

I refuse to cede the word "patriot" to those I don't agree with. For example, I have my grave doubts about the Patriot Act (signed into law by George W. Bush, certain portions extended by Barack Obama). Doesn't mean I am not a patriot. In fact I think those doubts are part of what makes me a good citizen.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I find the idea of patriotism outdated. We live in a global society now.

[Orthodox6]

I think there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. I think loving the place you're from and feeling a sense of loyalty is a good thing and its natural for you to have a greater affection for your homeland than anywhere else. I think unquestioning, blind following and disregarding one's own moral compass for the sake of this love is not necessarily a good thing, nor is it beneficial to think that your people are better than all others and your land is superior to every other and therefore deserves sovereignty.

 

 

:iagree: This is the best post, so far, that I have read in the thread. Excellent, in fact.

 

I have found this a difficult question for many years, especially since we began homeschooling and I needed to, as a parent, answer questions from my children, and decide what values I wished to inculcate in them, and which I wished to leave them free to ponder. (Of course they are free to ponder everything under the sun; however, I'll hope readers know what I meant to convey.) For example, I did not promote (or even teach the text of) the Pledge of Allegiance, because the pledge strikes me as a quasi-religious gesture/speech, and we (family) already have a religion. Yet I never would fault someone for repeating the pledge, or for placing a hand over the heart. I often do not respect the members of our government; however, I respect the institutions and principles themselves, and have taught this distinction to the children. I am grateful for our country and a lot of what it stands for; however, I never would exaggerate our country's worth as "chosen by God", or anything of that ilk. (An abrupt eye-opener during my first year of homeschooling, in 1995 when far, far fewer materials were available on the market, was the discovery that there were curricula insisting on precisely that philosophy.) . . . The OP's question is a weighty one, and one that everyone should think about seriously.

[PachiSusan]

I think there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. I think loving the place you're from and feeling a sense of loyalty is a good thing and its natural for you to have a greater affection for your homeland than anywhere else. I think unquestioning, blind following and disregarding one's own moral compass for the sake of this love is not necessarily a good thing, nor is it beneficial to think that your people are better than all others and your land is superior to every other and therefore deserves sovereignty.

 

 

No need for any words from me. Ditto the above! ^^^

[Lady Florida.]

I think team spirit is ok. I think blind allegiance is not.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I think there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism.

 

 

Definitely. There's nothing wrong with patriotism, but there's also nothing wrong with not being patriotic. Those who shout about people being unpatriotic are more nationalistic than patriotic.

 

Believing one's country is above all others and other nations are inferior - horrible.

This is nationalism. Nationalism is dangerous.

[Dandelion]

I disagree that patriotism disallows criticism or necessarily creates an us vs them dynamic. Plenty of people in the US military work direct link with other nations to help and support one another. Plenty of them are critical of the government in appropriate ways. I think there are a lot of people who are inappropriate and disrespectful, but they also tend to be the most jingoistic in my experience.

 

 

Yes and no.

Pride in one's country and the will to serve, uphold the constitution, work for the good of the country etc - yes, a good thing.

Believing one's country is above all others and other nations are inferior - horrible. (The Nazis' slogan was "Germany above all ". So I am very wary of too much national pride.)

 

Whenever "patriotism" means that one considers the own country as infallible, perfect and without room for improvement, and refuses to learn from how problems are solved elsewhere in the world, and when anybody who wants to improve or change things is accused of not being patriotic, then it has gone too far and become detrimental.

 

 

I completely agree with the above two posts.

 

I think there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. I think loving the place you're from and feeling a sense of loyalty is a good thing and its natural for you to have a greater affection for your homeland than anywhere else. I think unquestioning, blind following and disregarding one's own moral compass for the sake of this love is not necessarily a good thing, nor is it beneficial to think that your people are better than all others and your land is superior to every other and therefore deserves sovereignty.

 

 

I agree with this as well, except for the sovereignty comment. Perhaps I have a different definition of the word "sovereignty". To me, sovereignty means the right and power of a country to govern its affairs without foreign interference. The U.S. is a sovereign nation. As such, we are an independent nation, governed by the American people, and we control our own affairs. I do not believe other countries or foreign powers should be able to tell us what to do. That doesn't mean we should not consider requests from our allies and other nations. It doesn't mean we don't take input from the U.N. But I don't believe any nation should give up its sovereignty and be governed by *global consensus* or a transnational approach.

[jelbe5]

I believe patriotism is a good thing. I am a first generation American. My family came from Scotland. My Grandma, who came here after she turned 50, told me repeatedly that this is the greatest country in the world.

 

Is our country perfect? No. But our country allows for free speech and for the right to disagree and exercise our right to vote.

 

I prefer the idea of discussion, debate and voting to resolve issues in this country. I am not in favor of name calling or violence. It is our right to disagree and to question our government. Our Constitution allows for this. I may not always agree, but there is a process where I may voice my disagreement. With that in mind, yes, I believe Patriotism is a good thing.

[Word Nerd]

Patriotism is good. Jingoism is not.

[Celia]

My perspective is from a Christian one (and not one that's especially common to most). I don't think patriotism is a good quality, in the sense of "I'm proud to be a ______ " . I see myself as a stranger and pilgrim on the earth, with my allegiance being to Christ as my King. The nations of this world are corrupt, and I won't swear any allegiance to them. I don't sing my national anthem, or wave a flag on my house. I won't fight for my country or play a role in politics. I won't cheat on taxes and will obey the laws of the land to the degree that they don't conflict with God's commands, but when it comes to being thankful for the freedoms that I have, I thank God for being able to enjoy those, and I don't consider them to be my rights.

[Shahrazad]

I completely agree with the above two posts.

 

 

 

I agree with this as well, except for the sovereignty comment. Perhaps I have a different definition of the word "sovereignty". To me, sovereignty means the right and power of a country to govern its affairs without foreign interference. The U.S. is a sovereign nation. As such, we are an independent nation, governed by the American people, and we control our own affairs. I do not believe other countries or foreign powers should be able to tell us what to do. That doesn't mean we should not consider requests from our allies and other nations. It doesn't mean we don't take input from the U.N. But I don't believe any nation should give up its sovereignty and be governed by *global consensus* or a transnational approach.

 

 

Actually, it was my poor usage of the word but I meant 'sovereignty' over other nations and the ability to govern and interfere in what other countries are doing or how they choose to rule. Some people believe simply because we are the US we have the right to rule supremely over any other country as well and they should not be entitled to their own sovereignty so long as it doesn't interfere with worldwide humanitarian codes.

[Ellie]

Of course it's a good thing. How could one be a citizen of a country and not be patriotic? Why would you not want to protect and defend the country of which you are a citizen? It is not that you ignore any problems; it is that you recognize any problems and decide to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Imagine where we'd be today if the George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and all the rest had not been patriotic. Imagine where we'd be if all the men and women who have lost their lives defending their country for the last 200 years had not been patriotic.

 

I am proud to be an American. :patriot:

[magnificent_baby]

Of course it's a good thing. How could one be a citizen of a country and not be patriotic? Why would you not want to protect and defend the country of which you are a citizen? It is not that you ignore any problems; it is that you recognize any problems and decide to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Imagine where we'd be today if the George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and all the rest had not been patriotic. Imagine where we'd be if all the men and women who have lost their lives defending their country for the last 200 years had not been patriotic.

 

I am proud to be an American. :patriot:

 

Thank you for this. I barely skimmed the thread, and didn't really want to do that much. Have several military in my family, and more than a few that have and will have lifelong issues from their service. Simply because they love our country and are willing to take on those risks.

[Parrothead]

Thank you for this. I barely skimmed the thread, and didn't really want to do that much. Have several military in my family, and more than a few that have and will have lifelong issues from their service. Simply because they love our country and are willing to take on those risks.

 

Please pass along my thanks to your family members who served.

[Parrothead]

Proud America here. I thank God I was born here and not some place else.

 

I don't get why people hang around when they aren't happy and proud to be here. If the country you live in is so repulsive why not go where you agree with the government and lifestyle.

[lil' maids in a row]

For what it is worth I certainly do not hate my country. I think that there is a broad spectrum of beliefs in between hate and extreme nationalism. I don't think that it is wrong to examine and flesh out these ideas. My apologies is this discussion is hurtful.

[Dandelion]

For what it is worth I certainly do not hate my country. I think that there is a broad spectrum of beliefs in between hate and extreme nationalism. I don't think that it is wrong to examine and flesh out these ideas. My apologies is this discussion is hurtful.

 

You asked an honest question and spelled out your thoughts in a respectful way. We're having a valuable, respectful discussion on the topic. Nothing to apologize for IMO. :)

[Impish]

Proud America here. I thank God I was born here and not some place else.

 

I don't get why people hang around when they aren't happy and proud to be here. If the country you live in is so repulsive why not go where you agree with the government and lifestyle.

 

I think there's a whole lot of room btwn not considering oneself to be 'patriotic' and finding a country repulsive.

 

Personally, for *me*, I'm glad to be Canadian. I appreciate and respect the rights, priviledges, and responsibilities that come w/being a citizen of my country. I have a son in the Navy.

 

BUT...

 

I don't think of myself as 'patriotic'. I don't think that Canada is the bestest country EVAH. I think we have some wonderful aspects, and some not so wonderful. It's not that I want to live anywhere else, or whatever, it's just that when I hear 'patriotic', I think of someone that believes their country is the absolute best in the world, bar none. Just b/c I *prefer* my country, (while acknowledging I've never lived anywhere else, and therefore have no experience to base that opinion on, just reading, etc) doesn't mean that I'm blind to flaws, kwim? Canada's not perfect.

[Spy Car]

Imagine where we'd be today if the George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and all the rest had not been patriotic.

 

 

If George Washinton, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin had been "patriotic" I imagine we'd be British subjects, just as they were.

 

Bill

[happymomofboys]

I consider myself to be patriotic in the sense that I am proud of my nation's history, our form of government, and our Constitution and Bill of Rights. To me the flag, pledge of allegiance, national anthem, etc. are just symbols of those things. I am loyal to my nation only as far as it represents the causes of liberty and justice. When my country fails to protect and defend liberty and justice, I speak out against it.

[Incognito]

Being a dual-national expat, I think patriotism is a good thing. I think where it gets muddied up is when pride in one's country turns into a disdain for others. For instance, I find the "foreigners are taking OUR jobs" to be a disgusting whiny line.

 

FWIW, I learned about a healthier form of patriotism/nationalism when the Olympics happened and I was in countries other than the US. In other countries, people really do cheer their athletes on even though they know they will not get a medal. It's not just about winning, it really is about playing the game well and doing a person's best. When I first heard that I scoffed. I mean, we teach kids that is the way to be, but we don't believe it for the OLYMPICS. But a lot of places, people do. And that sort of attitude permeates the national attitude. It isn't as cut-throat of a world everywhere.

[fairfarmhand]

patriotism must be balanced by common sense, Biblical morality, etc. Unbridled patriotism leads to things like Nazi Germany.

 

I like being American.

 

I am proud of many of the things that our nation has accomplished.

 

However, that does not mean that I close my eyes to the things that are wrong with our nation or blindly accept things that might not be correct because I am "patriotic."

[Orthodox6]

"Biblical morality"? I would not list this because we do not live in a Christian country. For definite, patristic teachings of the Church govern my decisions; however, I acknowledge that they are not part of our government or its practices. A "core definition" of patriotism for a particular country would not include religion, unless one lives in a near-monoculture that features a particular religion. That's the best that I can word it without further reflection. However, as I reread the previous post, the writer may not be including her religious beliefs as part of her patriotism, but as a balancing element.

[fairfarmhand]

"Biblical morality"? I would not list this because we do not live in a Christian country. For definite, patristic teachings of the Church govern my decisions; however, I acknowledge that they are not part of our government or its practices. A "core definition" of patriotism for a particular country would not include religion, unless one lives in a near-monoculture that features a particular religion. That's the best that I can word it without further reflection. However, as I reread the previous post, the writer may not be including her religious beliefs as part of her patriotism, but as a balancing element.

I wasn't referring to the General population here. I am talking about my own personal belief and what I think should be the thought processes of other Christians.

 

I meet many people who claim to be Christians who have greater alleigance to their nation than to their God. That's a problem.

 

I do agree that we do not live in a "Christian" nation. The president stating that torqued a lot of people in my neck of the woods, but I do agree with him. I do not want any church with its fingers in the governance of our nation. Now the Christian principles that guide voters, politicians, etc. should influence the leadership of the nation, but church and state should not be directly intertwined

[Mrs Mungo]

"Biblical morality"? I would not list this because we do not live in a Christian country.

 

"patriotism must be balanced by common sense, Biblical morality, etc. Unbridled patriotism leads to things like Nazi Germany."

 

I took this as offering options and suggestions as to the types of things that can provide balancing forces. I took the "etc" to mean that there were plenty of other balancing forces that one could choose from.

 

[Orthodox6]

"patriotism must be balanced by common sense, Biblical morality, etc. Unbridled patriotism leads to things like Nazi Germany."

 

I took this as offering options and suggestions as to the types of things that can provide balancing forces. I took the "etc" to mean that there were plenty of other balancing forces that one could choose from.

 

 

See my final sentence in which I recognized that. (I had reread her post.) Perhaps I should have, at that point, erased my post; however, I was called downstairs for something and just hit "send."

[Lisbeth]

I consider myself patriotic. I am a realist and looking at the countries of the world, they are most def. not equal in quality of life, among other measures. I am extremely grateful to be an American

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I consider myself patriotic. I am a realist and looking at the countries of the world, they are most def. not equal in quality of life, among other measures. I am extremely grateful to be an American

 

 

Canada has it pretty good. As does Australia...Sweden...the UK...Germany...I can go on....

I love the US but I have no problem admitting that we have don't have the market cornered on "best place to live in the world!"

[Lindi]

America is my home. Being an American is like belonging to a family with a charter/constitution. I appreciate Americas' strengths and I recognize its failings. I am mostly comfortable here and basically loyal.. I try to obey the laws and I pay my taxes. If a fellow American betrays it or if someone attacks it, I don't like it -- just as I wouldn't like it if someone attacked my bio family. That being said, I don't consider myself patriotic. It seems to me that patriotic has come to mean someone who wears a flag pin, doesn't criticize whatever the government is doing (unless the other party is in power), or who supports every war. I am a neo-Anabaptist and I will not support every war. Nor will I support my country, right or wrong. I won't consider America to be "exceptional" in the sense that many people do. I have responsibilities higher than any claim my country has on me. I appreciate America -- I'm even glad I was born and live here (although I once considered immigrating to Australia) but I just don't see patriotism as essential. Although -- one might ask - - were those Nazis or Russians who saw the brutality of their regimes and betrayed their leaders, unpatriotic? Perhaps they were the most patriotic of all. That would be the only kind of patriotism I believe in.

[fairfarmhand]

Although -- one might ask - - were those Nazis or Russians who saw the brutality of their regimes and betrayed their leaders, unpatriotic? Perhaps they were the most patriotic of all. That would be the only kind of patriotism I believe in.

 

yes, they were patriotic. They saw what the corrupt, wickedness was doing to a nation that they loved and tried to put a stop to it.

[KrissiK]

I'm patriotic to a certain extent, however, we are more likely to teach our children the principles of freedom espoused in our great documents and the political philosophies that our founding fathers held that were not even original with them. Countries rise and fall. We, as a country, are not what we were when we started. There has been a huge ideological shift which I do not support.

[Heather in Neverland]

 

 

Canada has it pretty good. As does Australia...Sweden...the UK...Germany...I can go on....

I love the US but I have no problem admitting that we have don't have the market cornered on "best place to live in the world!"

 

I completely agree. I am American and I love America. Does that make me patriotic? :)

 

But I also love where we live now in Malaysia. A lot. I also really liked Singapore and Thailand and could see myself being happy there and loving those countries as well. Does that make me unpatriotic?

 

Does patriotic mean loving only the country you were born in? Or the country whose passport you hold? Or the country where you spent your childhood? Or the majority of your life so far?

 

That is what always confuses me about patriotism. I've always considered myself patriotic but others have questioned my patriotism because we no longer live in America. Can't a person love more than one country?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

We, as a country, are not what we were when we started.

 

Considering at the time we started that a significant portion of our population was in bondage and many others lacked equal rights under the law (not to mention how we treated the Native Americans), I personally consider the above to be a good thing.

[weaver_67579]

 

This is the main reason I do not value patriotism. I don't get why I should care more for someone who lives in the US than a person from Mexico or Iraq. I'm not sure why so many people associate patriotism as a Christian value. My faith is what moves me to not care about political boundaries.

 

I am thankful to live in the United States and I am thankful for the religious freedom I enjoy, but it doesn't make me patriotic.

 

How is does being patriotic equal caring more for people in the US over other countries? Can I not care for both and still be patriotic? I don't understand what kind of view some seem to have of patriotic people, but it seems to be not in keeping with the patriotism of myself and my patriotic friends. My faith teaches me to "love" all people as people. It does not also prevent me from being patriotic. I also don't consider my Patriotism to be a Christian value. I am both. I am also an animal lover, parent, wife, homeschooler, lover of photography, sister, animal bioscientist, history nerd... not all of the things I am overlap in their expression. I can wave my flag and thank God for all of my freedoms.

 

I can be a Christian and love my country. Yes I love it more than other countries because it is mine. That doesn't indicate that I think all other countries and the people in them are less than. It means I love it here, have no intention of moving anywhere else in the world and will support this country with my money (taxes), my time (as in volunteering in the community and taking time to vote...) and in the case of some family members-blood, sweat and tears (my father, grandfather, great uncles and brother-in-law all were military and served in times of war). My mother is also an immigrant from Scotland and she is now a naturalized citizen. She considers the US to be her home and country and loves it above all others and would never move back. If I didn't think the US was the best place to live and be a citizen. I am free to move and find a better one. Mom has lived elsewhere, and has chosen here. Family has served all over the world in the military and they chose here. I don't see me moving any time soon...

[Orthodox6]

I may not consider myself patriotic in the customary senses of that word; HOWEVER, if a standing army ever invaded the U.S., or started bombing us widely from air space, I have no doubt but that I would morph into "a patriot" faster than I could blink. Translation: If another nation attempts to remove the rights and freedoms which honesty compels me to acknowledge that I often take for granted, I would change my current tune instantly.

[MercyA]

Of course it's a good thing. How could one be a citizen of a country and not be patriotic? Why would you not want to protect and defend the country of which you are a citizen? It is not that you ignore any problems; it is that you recognize any problems and decide to be part of the solution and not part of the problem...

I am proud to be an American. :patriot:

 

For those who feel this way, is there anything this country could do (either by governmental edict or by the general consent of the populace) that would cause you to no longer feel or be patriotic or proud to be an American? What would that be?

 

I am genuinely curious. :bigear:

[Unicorn.]

I haven't read all the replies, but being a patriot/patriotic doesn't mean blind loyalty to a govt. You can be patriotic and still criticize the decisions made by the members of our govt. Heck, that's part of being a patriot- you don't like the govt, then change it. Vote for someone else. You should be patriotic by doing what you can to make this the best country it can possibly be.

 

You should take pride in being in a country where we have the right to criticize, and the right to vote. I do think that makes us better than other countries... (not people, just governments). You (collective you, not you personally) don't think so? Maybe you'd rather live in Cuba, China, or

N. Korea?

 

I think being patriotic is about being thankful that you live where you do, and having a govt. that allows you to enjoy the freedom and rights that should be available to everyone.

[Embassy]

I think it depends on your definition of patriotic. Nationalism is alive and well and is often confused with patriotism. If patriotism is equated with pride in your country of citizenship then I am not patriotic.

 

I teach my kids to see the world through borderless eyes. They may like the place they live, but I want them to be just as horrified when a bomb takes the lives of people on the other side of the world as they would be when a bomb kills people in the USA. As a Christian, I believe we shouldn't owe allegiance to any one country. because our citizenship is in heaven.

[Crimson Wife]

The fact that there is even serious debate over the value of patriotism and loyalty to one's country is one of the reasons I homeschool. I don't see this as a liberal vs. conservative thing because I know plenty of liberals who agree that the U.S. is the best country in the world. But somehow the virtue of patriotism has become politicized and therefore un-P.C. among certain folks. Yes, we are citizens of the world but that doesn't mean we have to buy into the whole cultural relativism thing. I am proud to be an American and while I don't always like what our government does, that does not diminish my patriotism.

[Pawz4me]

I know quite a few people who are adamant that the U.S. is absolutely the best country in the world. Most of them have no experience at all with life anywhere outside our borders. Some of them have never been much more than a couple of hundred miles away from the place they were born and raised. Go figure. Surveys and statistics tell us many countries have a much higher quality of life than we here in the U.S. do. I've never paid too much attention to the criteria used to determine that, though, and of course what constitutes a good quality of life varies from person to person. The only foreign countries I've visited are Canada and the Bahamas, so I realize I'm in no way qualified to make anything remotely resembling an objective judgment on what is the "best" country.

[SarahW]

 

You have not been hurtful, but some of the responses here I don't understand at all. I think there is perhaps a different idea of what constitutes patriotism and a difference in people's preferences for showing support for their country of citizenship/birth.

 

I don't say the pledge for various reasons, but this does not mean I am repulsed by the US. I don't think I should be forced to pledge to a flag to prove that. But I am not sure what people mean exactly when they use the term patriotism. Is it the flag, and the songs? Is it participating in the community? Is it something else? I really don't know. I think different people express their feelings in different ways. What's wrong with that? Why is my different way treated with suspicion and contempt?

 

 

 

I married a European who still has a national monarchy, and he was SHOCKED by the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

You people worship a flag???

No, honey, it's a symbol.

The first line is "I pledge allegiance to the flag."

Uh-huh, "and to the republic to which it stands."

I don't believe in republics. I have a queen.

I guess we don't have to worry about you applying for citizenship.

Nope.

 

fwiw, I get tired of politicians turning American Exceptionalism into some game to prove patriotism. Sure, America is a fine country. But we're different from other countries. I don't understand the reasoning that somehow this makes us inherently better.