Question about childhood hunger in America

[Lovedtodeath]

"It's a beaver see? The beaver sits on a rock and eats the paper. I win!" -- Rooney from The Doodlebops.

[Audrey]

Yeah I don't get why people point out that it's worse somewhere else or that it "could be worse". How does that help?

 

 

It could always be worse, but pointing that out does nothing to solve either the immediate issue or the worst case scenario. It is an easy talking point completely devoid of action.

 

You're either part of the solution, or part of the problem.

[Beetkvass]

:iagree: And it does relate to children who are hungry. Take for instance the lady who refused the green beans because she said she didn't know how to cook them. Knowing how to cook does mean that one can feed one's children in many instances. Only someone very short sighted would say the can of green beans is better than the ones fresh out of the garden.

 

Exactly!!

[Arcadia]

:lol:

 

My home ec class did NOT have dozens of sewing machines and glass ovens. It was pathetic

 

The main difference between the states and my home country is that education is controlled by the Ministry of Education. If the country mandates home economics for all girls in grade 7 and 8, and technical workshop for all boys in grade 7 and 8, than the government would supply the teachers, equipment and cost of building school extensions. Education spending is second only to Defence so no schools would complain about needs.

 

Here there is the Federal, the state and the local school district. It is hard to interpret or implement anything.

 

However, since NCLB required that every teacher be "highly qualified" ie. majored in and certified for the subject they teach, Tibbie, Mrs. Mungo, and I would NOT be educated enough to teach Cooking 101 to 8th graders! :glare:

 

I was factoring in the cost of building school extensions to house the home economics classrooms. We had three certified in home economics credentialed teachers to teach the 880 students. Hubby's school had certified teachers to teach technical workshop and well equiped classrooms for that. We feel fortunate for that.

[Audrey]

Yeah it's kind of nuts that someone spends several years in an institution supposedly being taught things and they come out with so little to show for it. People rant about kids not having academic skills. Others rant about them lacking practical life skills. So what skills do they actually have in the end?

 

Come to think of it, I feel like I learned far more outside of school than in school.

 

 

Feral skills.

[Audrey]

Then maybe cooking classes should be restricted to the parts of the country where future careers are unlikely.

 

Rosie

 

Considering the economic climate and job prospects -- mostly part-time, minimum wage, entry level and labour jobs with little or no benefits -- I believe that would be their whole country.

[Parrothead]

Feral skills.

Ain't that the truth!

[Impish]

I'm genuinely boggled at the idea that not knowing how to cook doesn't impact families who struggle financially.

 

Run the #s for one. Whole foods are cheaper than prepkg'd. You can get far more meals out of a chicken than out of a pkg of hamburger patties. So, it's absolutely a cost savings, and when every dollar counts, that absolutely matters.

 

A varied diet, one not rife w/sugar, salts, artificial colours, flavours, preservitives is absolutely healthier than the alternative.

 

To state otherwise is to not be realistic about the impact of food and nutrition on the state of health.

 

Cooking *is* a life skill. It IS a survival skill, needed by so many families in order to keep themselves fed on the budget they have.

[Lovedtodeath]

Cooking *is* a life skill. It IS a survival skill, needed by so many families in order to keep themselves fed on the budget they have.

Well said

[Jane in NC]

...or serve on the triumvirate consul with Rivka and Tibbie...

 

with Faithmanor as Secretary of the Treasury.

 

And may I nominate myself for Secretary of the Interior? Please, please???

[Murphy101]

I was just contemplating last week over how screwed we'd all be about 3 - 6 months after the zombie apocolypse.

 

We have a huge segment of society that literally can barely feed themselves if it involves more than boiling water and opening a can. They cannot clothe themselves unless newly made clothes are handed to them in the appropriate size. (can't sew by machine, much less by hand, have no concepts of textile creation or use) They cannot maintain anything. Not their tools, not their vehicles, not even a bike, much less know how to build a winter worthy shelter. And as a nation millions are graduating with barely a 6th grade comprehension reading level and very possibly even less math skills.

 

Soooo.

 

The zombies are at the door. At first it sucks, but it's survivable. Ransack stores for equipment, foods, gear for immediate needs.

 

But what about 6 months out? 18 months out? When the cities are crumbling and materials ruined and people have to create instead of consume? What are e chances there will be enough people to pass the knowledge on to do so? Especially in areas that are trade based, like America? Sure there are some hobbiest weavers, and such. But even those aren't exactly on every corner. What are the chances of just happening to have a doctor, a weaver, a cobbler, glass blower, a logger, a....? In enough concentration to implement their skills and pass them on before becoming zombie munchies?

 

Sure not everyone needs to know life skills. Sure they might never use those skills.

 

But I'd sure rather not use those skills when I can do without them than be totally screwed because I need them and don't even know where to start looking to gain them. And I can read, write, and do math beyond 6th grade level, so I can't even comprehend how someone who can't do that and doesn't have someone to teach them is going to survive the many things that are reasonable to expect in life. Famine, war, and disease aren't exactly new contributors to the downfall of nations. Ignorance does nothing but hasten the fall IMO.

[Χά�ων]

Feral skills.

 

:iagree:

[Χά�ων]

Actually, I know people (one was a former foster sister) who really did not know how to prepare foods for her and her son. She would buy fruit gushers because she honestly thought it was healthy because it said "fruit" on it.

[6packofun]

Wow, that's a beautiful picture! Even more so because it's being given away. :)

[justamouse]

Feral skills.

 

That's so true it's sad.

[TXMomof4]

I think there are too many assumptions being made in this thread. The cw here seems to say that low income/food stamp recipients do not have the knowledge or wisdom to make good food choices or to figure out how to prepare nutritious food if it is given to them. ( Again, not speaking to the womam with a minifridge and microwave.) The answer to that is more requirement for their children, the vast majority of whom are already in failing schools to teach them how to take care of themselves because their parents are too exhausted to boil eggs for their dinner. :confused:

 

This thread has me all twisted to Sunday. I completely get that there are hungry children in the US. I understand that govt. aid doesn't reach every child. Those children will not be touched by a ms/hs cooking class requirement either.

 

I do think it will have to be a huge cultural change to improve nutrition. If we are talking about children starving (NO food) that's one thing. But I will bet you the poor nutrition camp isn't exclusive to extremely poor people. I *know* my sister's kids are not fed a healthy diet a large % of the time. Luckily they live near my parents and Mom does make sure they get veggies a few times a week, but my sister's idea of a well rounded meal is easy mac and french fries. She knows better and if she would take the time (which she is.capable of doing) she could do much better. She chooses not to. She isn't unusual among her friends. The easy meal (processed crap that provides little nutrition) is what everyone does in her group of friends. I know our mom taught us frugal meal prep. I know the friends families. They're out in the country - everyone of their parents have gardens they would be free to eat from and that they were raised eating from. Chips and hot dogs is what is served instead. There is definitely a generational component to it asde from a monetary issue.

 

Alright - I'm on my phone so if there are glaring typos, please be forgiving.

[mommymilkies]

Actually, I know people (one was a former foster sister) who really did not know how to prepare foods for her and her son. She would buy fruit gushers because she honestly thought it was healthy because it said "fruit" on it.

 

Are you talking about my MIL? Se still insists fruit roll ups are just fruit. So are Capri Suns. :glare:

 

Martha! :lol::lol: I thought much the same thing while watching the Walking Dead. I also thought how unrealistic it was that there wasn't more ammo, clothes, or no perishable food was around. But then again that's all we have around here. :tongue_smilie:

[Murphy101]

Wow. I could just contemplate this for some time.

 

So in The Walking Dead, the zombies even eat animals. And the zombies are sorta herd like...

 

So that means really quick folks are going to need to know how to

 

- figure out if a food is edible

 

- plant more edible foods

 

How do you do that if you don't already know and can't read past a 6th grade level and there is no one to teach you?

 

Historicly, it took multiple generations of careful record keeping to learn that and refine it to a profitable use of limited energy. Every day noting the weather and soil conditions and what seems to be growing when and how long and when seems to be best to harvest it. And that's when they know what to eat and how to serve it!

[Parrothead]

Cooking *is* a life skill. It IS a survival skill, needed by so many families in order to keep themselves fed on the budget they have.

Not to mention it will come in handy after the zombie apocalypse. ;)

[mommymilkies]

Wow. I could just contemplate this for some time.

 

So in The Walking Dead, the zombies even eat animals. And the zombies are sorta herd like...

 

So that means really quick folks are going to need to know how to

 

- figure out if a food is edible

 

- plant more edible foods

 

How do you do that if you don't already know and can't read past a 6th grade level and there is no one to teach you?

 

Historicly, it took multiple generations of careful record keeping to learn that and refine it to a profitable use of limited energy. Every day noting the weather and soil conditions and what seems to be growing when and how long and when seems to be best to harvest it. And that's when they know what to eat and how to serve it!

Should we start a spin off on learning/teaching how to prepare for a zombie apocalypse? :lol:

 

Can you tell I'm impatiently waiting for season 3 to come out on Netflix? :lurk5:

[Beetkvass]

:D I know how lucky I am. He has always been the cook since back in his college days living with roommates. He goes "home" and cooks for his parents, instead of his mom cooking for him.

 

See, to me that is cooking. But some on here seem to be saying that using boxed pasta, or canned tomatoes means its prepared foods and somehow less.

 

I'm not saying that at all personally. In my opinion there is a huge difference between using boxed pasta and canned tomatoes in a sauce as part of a complete meal vs opening a can of ravioli. There is a difference between using some convenience and processes foods vs a life where almost everything is premade.

 

We do buy boxed pasta. We do buy canned tomatoes and canned coconut milk. But for the most part my kids eat whole fruits, vegetables, grains, dairy and meat that are made into snacks and meals. My kids snack on things like fruit and peanut butter. Don't get me wrong. I love my sister but am using her as an example here. My sisters kids snack on things that all come in a package. Fruit is in the form of boxed juice and fruit flavored shapes. Instead of cheese and bread/crackers it's cheese flavored crackers. They eat out all the time and at home live off boxed macaroni, cereal, frozen breakfast/lunch/dinner dishes etc. I'm not saying they never eat a fruit or vegetable but it's really not all that common. My bil likes that canned green bean casserole at Christmas. LOL It's one of only two dishes his mother makes. She doesn't even cook for the holidays now. I've been totally grossed out shopping with my sister because she'd basically buy nothing in the produce dept. My niece at 6yo asked me what an ONION was at our house one day.

 

No one lives a life without some processed foods. It's hardly possible! But when I personally am talking about a processed food diet I'm talking about basically almost all foods coming out of a box, bag or can. Growing up my mom cooked at least dinner. Now she rarely does. My dad cooks a fair amount but it's only meat on the grill and it's served with canned baked beans and microwave potatoes. They eat out or eat presliced and packaged food for the overwhelming majority of their meals. My fil cooks and my mil doesn't. He makes wonderful dinners frequently but every breakfast and lunch will come out of a package except for holidays.

 

I see a lot of people that eat that way. I personally can not eat that way. It literally makes me physically sick. I have to eat real whole foods and not processed ones. I probably sound like a real jerk here. I don't mean to. I know it's fairly common though. Everywhere we go someone wants to give my kids candy, sugary drinks and a packaged snack it seems. And that's what I see most people serving each other. But I just want to at least clarify what I mean in this thread talking about a processed food diet.

[Parrothead]

LOL for once Martha and I are on the same wavelength.

[FaithManor]

with Faithmanor as Secretary of the Treasury.

 

And may I nominate myself for Secretary of the Interior? Please, please???

 

 

Humbly, I accept the nomination.

 

However, I want you all to know that what I would recommend be done to the banking industry would not be considered kind. You should know this! Euphemistically, putting to the sword comes to mind. If they whine about regulations now, they haven't seen anything yet because what I would recommend to my dear hive leaders would be nothing short of "an*l probing" of these institutions!

 

As for taxes, look everyone, I'm going to recommend that places like General Electric and Detroit Edison actually, GASP, pay taxes...gasp! (Last year D.T.E. netted 720 million and didn't pay a dime in income tax.) I hope my dear triumverate will institute a huge budget increase for prosecutions so we can give about 111 large corporations a financial colonoscopy and hard labor afterward. That's where I would start.

 

From there it would likely get nutty because I'm a bit of a libertarian. So, I have strong feelings about the size of the national debt. I have strong feelings about our money not being backed by anything...seriously, organic compost, granite, I don't care...something of value. :lol:

 

Shhh....your paper money...I know, I know that it's convenient, but it wears out and we have to replace it.all.the.time. I think our one's, five's, and ten's, need to be made out of kevlar or titanium or turned into coins. I'd be willing to work with the Kevlar.

 

Also, there would likely be mass floggings of school superintendents who drive Cadillacs paid for by school funding while increasing sports budgets and laying off physics teachers. I'm not kidding! If I get appointed, we are talking about certain bankers, CEO's, and school superintendents (yah, buddy up the road from me I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU AND I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE SO YOU BETTER HOPE THE HIVE IS NOT SUCCESSFUL!!!!!!!), being sent into the arena with nothing more than a spoon to defend themselves against a pack of komodo dragons. Bringing back the games people. Sure...you want to make a bunch of hugely risky loans and beg the treasury to bail you out when they all go bad or fire decent teachers so you can get new sports uniforms...oh please, report for the 75th annual HUNGER GAMES!

 

On second thought, I better decline the nomination because I have no objectivity or sense of civility towards certain people.

 

Faith

[Impish]

Not to mention it will come in handy after the zombie apocalypse. ;)

See?!

 

Just don't ask me to cook zombies. Unless it's w/a flame thrower, cause that could be kinda cool, and life saving.

 

Flambed zombies. Another life skill.

 

Who knew?

[Χά�ων]

I was just contemplating last week over how screwed we'd all be about 3 - 6 months after the zombie apocolypse.

 

We have a huge segment of society that literally can barely feed themselves if it involves more than boiling water and opening a can. They cannot clothe themselves unless newly made clothes are handed to them in the appropriate size. (can't sew by machine, much less by hand, have no concepts of textile creation or use) They cannot maintain anything. Not their tools, not their vehicles, not even a bike, much less know how to build a winter worthy shelter. And as a nation millions are graduating with barely a 6th grade comprehension reading level and very possibly even less math skills.

 

Soooo.

 

The zombies are at the door. At first it sucks, but it's survivable. Ransack stores for equipment, foods, gear for immediate needs.

 

But what about 6 months out? 18 months out? When the cities are crumbling and materials ruined and people have to create instead of consume? What are e chances there will be enough people to pass the knowledge on to do so? Especially in areas that are trade based, like America? Sure there are some hobbiest weavers, and such. But even those aren't exactly on every corner. What are the chances of just happening to have a doctor, a weaver, a cobbler, glass blower, a logger, a....? In enough concentration to implement their skills and pass them on before becoming zombie munchies?

 

Sure not everyone needs to know life skills. Sure they might never use those skills.

 

But I'd sure rather not use those skills when I can do without them than be totally screwed because I need them and don't even know where to start looking to gain them. And I can read, write, and do math beyond 6th grade level, so I can't even comprehend how someone who can't do that and doesn't have someone to teach them is going to survive the many things that are reasonable to expect in life. Famine, war, and disease aren't exactly new contributors to the downfall of nations. Ignorance does nothing but hasten the fall IMO.

 

You might start here with the basics ;)

http://www.freehomeschooldeals.com/free-my-side-of-the-mountain-a-literature-unit-based-project-pack-91-pages-save-9-99/

 

Seriously though, I have wondered this myself. We moved out so we could have enough land to raise and grow all of our food and some extra to sell.

I have more time then money and I would rather spend the time to ensure we have enough healthy food then the money on a limited variety of food that is available on store shelves. I have to admit I have learned a lot, some of the varieties I grew this year I had never heard of or seen and I have had to learn what they are and how to preserve them.

 

DS seems to think along these same lines or maybe he is just really really bored and that is why he has spent hours making a bow and a couple of arrows from sticks and twine. They actually shot! I told him he is welcome to try and hunt anything that comes into my garden. He is rather annoyed that none of the rocks on our property will create sparks when he smashes them together. I may have him look out by the creek next time I send him foraging.

 

Now I am going to put my freak flag away and go finish preparing today's harvest from the garden (seeds are cheap!) before I really call more attention to my freakishness.

[stripe]

I think there are too many assumptions being made in this thread. The cw here seems to say that low income/food stamp recipients do not have the knowledge or wisdom to make good food choices or to figure out how to prepare nutritious food if it is given to them.

 

I was, I think, the one who brought up cooking skills, and I was very clear it applies across the board, not just poor people.

[Beetkvass]

You might start here with the basics ;)

http://www.freehomeschooldeals.com/free-my-side-of-the-mountain-a-literature-unit-based-project-pack-91-pages-save-9-99/

 

Seriously though, I have wondered this myself. We moved out so we could have enough land to raise and grow all of our food and some extra to sell.

I have more time then money and I would rather spend the time to ensure we have enough healthy food then the money on a limited variety of food that is available on store shelves. I have to admit I have learned a lot, some of the varieties I grew this year I had never heard of or seen and I have had to learn what they are and how to preserve them.

 

DS seems to think along these same lines or maybe he is just really really bored and that is why he has spent hours making a bow and a couple of arrows from sticks and twine. They actually shot! I told him he is welcome to try and hunt anything that comes into my garden. He is rather annoyed that none of the rocks on our property will create sparks when he smashes them together. I may have him look out by the creek next time I send him foraging.

 

Now I am going to put my freak flag away and go finish preparing today's harvest from the garden (seeds are cheap!) before I really call more attention to my freakishness.

 

I'm digging swales and building hugelkulture beds in my front yard. I've only got one acre though and the neighbors all know I'm a freak. They just don't know what permaculture is.

[Murphy101]

Should we start a spin off on learning/teaching how to prepare for a zombie apocalypse? :lol:

 

Can you tell I'm impatiently waiting for season 3 to come out on Netflix? :lurk5:

 

Me too!:lurk5:

[Denise in Florida]

On the subject of not taking green beans or good bread.

 

So.

 

This is what I picture.

 

Here is a family with the TV blaring 'want this, want that' at the kids all the time. They don't get to spend much time together unless someone is unemployed, in which case they are extremely stressed.

 

They go to the food bank and someone offers them something unfamiliar, and it feels like a stress, not a blessing. One more thing for the kids to whine about.

 

The first time I tasted a raw green bean, it was because a neighbor lady gave me a piece (raw) to eat, when I was about 5. I ran home to my mom and asked her if we could get that kind, and she got furious because preparing them would have been more drudge work for her. That is the last time I had them until I was out on my own. We only ever had frozen, cooked to death veggies. I hated all veggies except corn, asparagus and artichokes for my entire child hood, but once I was on my own, I ate raw green beans because that blessed woman gave me some.

 

The first time we tried whole grain bread we all hated it. Now it's all I eat.

 

It can be overwhelming to have to deal with another stressor. Personally, when I give away something 'odd' like that, I serve it. I bring whole grain hearth raised bread when I volunteer with 5th graders, and cut it in front of them, and we eat it together, with some kind of good but odd jam, or with cheese that doesn't come pre-sliced. I don't know how this plays out at home. I don't care, either. I am introducing them to something nutritious that they enjoy, and figuring that that is a good experience, and also that someday when they run across this again they will know that it might be really good. I don't make a big deal of this. I just put it out there, and if someone doesn't want it, no biggie.

 

:iagree::iagree: Not just food, many forms of help are just to stressful when you are already overwhelmed. This then leads to even more judgement from others and sense of failure for yourself.

 

My lessons in compassion were learned thoroughly and painfully years ago when I suffered from severe post partum depression. Yes, the people around me were trying to help and their suggestions were great. Yet each piece of 'help' whether it was an offer to babysit or advice to get more rest felt like a wound. After I was feeling better I was ashamed of how bad my attitude had been, my mom put a stop to that :001_smile:.

 

Back to the topic, I offer help where and when I can and I try to ask what 'help' they want. It is about them not me.

[TechWife]

I doubt many in my community go hungry. If they do it's not because there isn't anything available to help them. There are TONS of programs, soup kitchens, food pantries, etc.

 

Often these programs have hoops to jump through that aren't practical for everyone in need. Also, many food pantries have had to place limits on the number of times any one family can get food in a given time period. I've heard that at some a family can get two bags of groceries up to two times a month. That's not very much or very often. Even though there are multiple programs, not everyone can participate in multiple programs due to limitations on time, transportation & the necessity to work.

[Jane in NC]

Humbly, I accept the nomination...

 

I hope my dear triumverate will institute a huge budget increase for prosecutions so we can give about 111 large corporations a financial colonoscopy and hard labor afterward. That's where I would start.

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I know this is a serious thread but I have enjoy this moment of comic relief. Thank you.

[Scarlett]

Humbly, I accept the nomination.

 

However, I want you all to know that what I would recommend be done to the banking industry would not be considered kind. You should know this! Euphemistically, putting to the sword comes to mind. If they whine about regulations now, they haven't seen anything yet because what I would recommend to my dear hive leaders would be nothing short of "an*l probing" of these institutions!

 

As for taxes, look everyone, I'm going to recommend that places like General Electric and Detroit Edison actually, GASP, pay taxes...gasp! (Last year D.T.E. netted 720 million and didn't pay a dime in income tax.) I hope my dear triumverate will institute a huge budget increase for prosecutions so we can give about 111 large corporations a financial colonoscopy and hard labor afterward. That's where I would start.

 

From there it would likely get nutty because I'm a bit of a libertarian. So, I have strong feelings about the size of the national debt. I have strong feelings about our money not being backed by anything...seriously, organic compost, granite, I don't care...something of value. :lol:

 

Shhh....your paper money...I know, I know that it's convenient, but it wears out and we have to replace it.all.the.time. I think our one's, five's, and ten's, need to be made out of kevlar or titanium or turned into coins. I'd be willing to work with the Kevlar.

 

Also, there would likely be mass floggings of school superintendents who drive Cadillacs paid for by school funding while increasing sports budgets and laying off physics teachers. I'm not kidding! If I get appointed, we are talking about certain bankers, CEO's, and school superintendents (yah, buddy up the road from me I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU AND I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE SO YOU BETTER HOPE THE HIVE IS NOT SUCCESSFUL!!!!!!!), being sent into the arena with nothing more than a spoon to defend themselves against a pack of komodo dragons. Bringing back the games people. Sure...you want to make a bunch of hugely risky loans and beg the treasury to bail you out when they all go bad or fire decent teachers so you can get new sports uniforms...oh please, report for the 75th annual HUNGER GAMES!

 

On second thought, I better decline the nomination because I have no objectivity or sense of civility towards certain people.

 

Faith

 

Um, are you aware of the no politics policy here at WTM?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

[Rosie_0801]

I was just contemplating last week over how screwed we'd all be about 3 - 6 months after the zombie apocolypse.

 

We have a huge segment of society that literally can barely feed themselves if it involves more than boiling water and opening a can. They cannot clothe themselves unless newly made clothes are handed to them in the appropriate size. (can't sew by machine, much less by hand, have no concepts of textile creation or use) They cannot maintain anything. Not their tools, not their vehicles, not even a bike, much less know how to build a winter worthy shelter.

 

It's not just you! My aunt says most of her WWOOFers don't know how to cook, wash dishes and plenty don't know how to pack clothes for wwoofering. She thinks I'm useless, but I can do those things. :D

 

 

Rosie

[Ravin]

Read Dies the Fire by S.M. Stirling for a theory on what would happen to those people.

[SKL]

I'm genuinely boggled at the idea that not knowing how to cook doesn't impact families who struggle financially.

 

Run the #s for one. Whole foods are cheaper than prepkg'd. You can get far more meals out of a chicken than out of a pkg of hamburger patties. So, it's absolutely a cost savings, and when every dollar counts, that absolutely matters.

 

 

But wait a minute. Every time we have this kind of conversation, it is brought up that "real" food costs so much more than processed food and junk food, that's why "poor" people eat junk and become obese. Which is it?

Edited October 23, 2012 by SKL

[SKL]

...

We do buy boxed pasta. We do buy canned tomatoes and canned coconut milk. But for the most part my kids eat whole fruits, vegetables, grains, dairy and meat that are made into snacks and meals. My kids snack on things like fruit and peanut butter.

 

...

 

I just want to at least clarify what I mean in this thread talking about a processed food diet.

 

The bolded is pretty much what I do too (except that we don't do a lot of meat), but look at it again. How much of that requires "cooking" (as defined herein)?

 

Today was a fairly typical day for my kids. Breakfast: eggs, fruit, wheat toast, and yogurt. Lunch: 1 pbj on wheat bread, applesauce, cheese, milk. Snack: healthy cheese crackers and fruit. Dinner: noodles, a bit of leftover chicken paprika (thanks, sis), raw carrots, mixed salad beans (cold), grapes, milk. Not a menu likely to cause a diet crisis.

[Sctigermom]

My grandparents who had their kids in the 60's tell stories of only having $10-$15 for food per paycheck. They grew their own food to supplement and they hunted for meats. When my grandfather was a boy they had no indoor plumbing and ate off the land. Fast forward to my childhood. My parents divorced while I was young and my father never had much $ for food. I ate squirrel, deer, rabbit, ect. I understand that people living in cities can't go out and hunt or something, but I feel like we have come so far from our roots that *some* people wouldn't have the slightest how to care for themselves and their family without being given prepared food. I agree it's sad that even here in America we have childhood hunger.

[Carol in Cal.]

If you cook from scratch, buy in bulk, and buy in season (or grow) your fresh food, you can save relative to fast food, big time. If you don't have appliances, room, and time, this is almost impossible.

 

If you buy little 2 pound sacks of flour and boxes of sugar, you eat up a lot of your savings in packaging efficiency.

 

I think that a PP's point about how throughout history people needed to get the job done AND cook from scratch shows up something else--that cooking during much of history could be fit into other work in the same location. It was not as common to leave to work for pay--piecework, or localized work in fields or gardens can be integrated with food preparation much more easily than an office job distant from your kitchen.

[happypamama]

But wait a minute. Every time we have this kind of conversation, it is brought up that "real" food costs so much more than processed food and junk food, that's why "poor" people eat junk and become obese. Which is it?

 

I think it depends on the item. Soda is cheaper than milk. Crackers, bread, etc. made with HFCS, white flour, etc. are cheaper than the whole grain varieties. Chips are cheaper than apples, and the sales are better. Our local grocery store sometimes has bags of chips on sale for a dollar; even on sale, a dollar's worth of apples doesn't go very far. I can see why people opt for chips, soda, etc. Processed foods are more likely to have coupons too.

 

Now, if you're talking meat, less processed is usually cheaper, when you're talking a whole chicken vs. chicken parts, or even beef vs. pre-made hamburger patties. Or ingredients for cookies vs. pre-packaged cookies. (Yes, and making your own chips from tortillas, or your own crackers, is going to be cheaper still, but I really doubt a lot of people do that.)

 

And some of it is just plain time. I feed my family well, and I sometimes opt for a processed (or slightly processed) item because I just don't always have time to do everything from scratch. I do a lot of things to save money, and sometimes I just don't have the currency of time to spend.

[Impish]

Here's the thing:

 

If you can cook, you can stretch food in a big way, and make what, one the surface is more expensive actually turn out to be less.

 

An example:

 

A whole chicken goes for about $14 here. Box of chicken fingers, about 10-12.

 

I can get 4 meals out of a chicken, and that's feeding 3 adults (I'm counting Diva as an adult here, b/c she's taller than I am, and def eats like an adult), 2 kids, and a baby.

 

Box of chicken fingers? It would cover 2 meals. And that's cause I *still* get creative w/it.

 

But, if I didn't know how to cook and stretch, I would go for the chicken fingers b/c it's $2 cheaper.

 

A pot of chili is going to cost me more than a can of chili for ingredients. But, *per serving* is going to wind up cheaper.\

 

Same w/any homemade soup/stew. Esp as I use leftovers. And, I find that cooking from scratch fills my family and carries them farther than prepared/pre pkgd food. They have a bowl of stew, it holds them. I can't say the same for anything that comes out of a can or box.

 

Of course, I'm not talking organic ingredients here.

[Jenny in Florida]

Are you talking about my MIL? Se still insists fruit roll ups are just fruit. So are Capri Suns.

 

I remember my grandmother pushing Jello topped with Cool Whip on me when I was a kid, because there was protein and fruit in the Jello and milk in the Cool Whip. (Yes, I knew even as a young teen that none of that was true.) Cooking from scratch was something one did only if one was too poor to afford the stuff in boxes.

 

I'm trying to remember the name of the book, maybe this one: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/something-from-the-oven-laura-shapiro/1111324731?ean=9780143034919 Essentially, big companies set out very intentionally in the 1950s to "prove" to housewives that processed, packaged food was modern and convenient and healthy. Using boxes and cans became a status symbol. "Cooking" became the art of opening several packages and combining products in creative ways.

 

I think certain women never recovered from that public relations blitz.

[Impish]

$14 for a chicken?! What fresh hell is that? LOL

 

I bought a HUGE chicken for under $6 this week.

I'm in Canada. Our food prices are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than yours.

 

Gallon of milk is up to almost $6, depending on where you are.

[Impish]

Wow. :001_huh:

 

Oh and you know what is interesting....we get a lot of Canadian food, health, and beauty imports and those tend to be the less expensive products (the quality is good, so I'm not suggesting they are cheap crappy products or anything).

It's so weird how it works.

 

I hear about couponing, and the prices you guys pay per lb for diff things, and it makes me wanna cry.

 

I have a friend who lives in a border city, and she's found it so worth her while to get a passport and grocery shop across the border. It's about cut her grocery bill in half, and clothing, etc is way cheaper too.

 

For us, the trip is too far to make it worth it. For what it would cost in gas, etc, it would cancel out any savings.

 

If...when (Wolf's been correcting me about this lately, "It's not IF, it's WHEN!") we move to BC, we're aiming for southern, b/c of the weather. If we end up near the border, I can def see cross border shopping regularily.

[8circles]

Time is limited and should be used for stuff kids are unlikely to learn at home, and likely to use in their future hobby/career.

 

I'd think by looking at all the people who don't know how to cook vegetables or don't realize that they are an important food group or don't realize that fresh is so much healthier than canned, maybe basic cooking & nutrition now falls into the category of "unlikely to learn at home".

[ChristyB in TN]

My group is cooking for the homeless/hungry in our community on Thanksgiving day. We are cooking every darn thing from scratch because we believe that food cooked with quality ingredients and prepared with love can change lives. The difference in nutrition is insane AND I get to stand around in a kitchen and work with some of the most incredible people alive. I am so grateful. My kids will be in from college and will be working among them gaining perspective and knowledge. My 13 year old gets to see all of this and hopefully set his goals appropriately. There's more to cooking than knowing what to cook and how...why is important.

Our local public high school teaches everyone to cook. No one gets to graduate early so by the time they are seniors they have all day to spend in culinary learning to cook. I spent Sunday afternoon at a party with a local chef. He says it is awesome that so many kids are leaving school with all these skills, they don't know how little most kitchen workers actually earn and think they will all be celebrities. :001_huh: maybe logic and economics could be taught in high school? He certainly thought so.

In my area there government programs going into homes and teaching these skills to parents. They go from correct food temperatures, nutrition and how to clean. The problems are many. The people teaching it know little and very few people know that this exists at all! I think there should be groups of volunteers, much like the home makers clubs of long ago, who will do it. If volunteers do it and not government agencies, there is accountability on the side of the recipient to do well.

[Jenny in Florida]

Here's what Thanksgiving will look like at the inlaws (gps raised in city poverty but solidly middle class income while raising their own children, my generation):

 

The actual cooked items:

turkey (whatever the store gives away in return for purchasing $300 over a time period before Tday from them), bread stuffing, yams. flavorings used are butter, salt, pepper, and brown sugar. Lasagna (all store bought ingredients, ground beef +sausage + cheese+red sauce).

 

Rest from boxes: mashed potatoes, cranberry jelly, selection of Green Giant and Mrs. Smith and Sam's Club cheesecake. There will be no green vegetables. Appetizers will be pepperoni or summer sausage, ritz crackers, cheese. Beveridge is selection of soda.

 

Thanksgiving at my house growing up was:

 

- turkey (a small one, since there were only three people)

- Stove Top stuffing

- instant mashed potatoes

- a can of yams in syrup, warmed in a casserole dish and topped with marshmallows

- brown and serve rolls

- cranberry relish from fresh cranberries, because it was the one thing my mother cared about being good

- For dessert, Mrs. Callendar's frozen pumpkin pie, topped with whipped cream from a spray can.

 

If there was a salad or other vegetable on the table, I don't remember it. There were no appetizers, but, again, it was just my parents and me.

 

When we moved close enough to have the holiday with my mother's family, it would be a similar menu, except that my grandmother would also serve a "green goddess" Jello salad and some canned baked beans topped with bacon. And she would serve her guests "breakfast" by picking up a couple of dozen doughnuts.

 

So, yeah, the point I'm trying to make is that this dependence on prepared, packaged stuff isn't new. By my count, we're on our third or fourth generation of it. And with each one, I think we have less and less understanding of what "food" actually is and how to cook and eat it, unless we as individuals choose to make the effort to learn.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Jenny in Florida

[justamouse]

My group is cooking for the homeless/hungry in our community on Thanksgiving day. We are cooking every darn thing from scratch because we believe that food cooked with quality ingredients and prepared with love can change lives. The difference in nutrition is insane AND I get to stand around in a kitchen and work with some of the most incredible people alive. I am so grateful. My kids will be in from college and will be working among them gaining perspective and knowledge. My 13 year old gets to see all of this and hopefully set his goals appropriately. There's more to cooking than knowing what to cook and how...why is important.

Our local public high school teaches everyone to cook. No one gets to graduate early so by the time they are seniors they have all day to spend in culinary learning to cook. I spent Sunday afternoon at a party with a local chef. He says it is awesome that so many kids are leaving school with all these skills, they don't know how little most kitchen workers actually earn and think they will all be celebrities. :001_huh: maybe logic and economics could be taught in high school? He certainly thought so.

In my area there government programs going into homes and teaching these skills to parents. They go from correct food temperatures, nutrition and how to clean. The problems are many. The people teaching it know little and very few people know that this exists at all! I think there should be groups of volunteers, much like the home makers clubs of long ago, who will do it. If volunteers do it and not government agencies, there is accountability on the side of the recipient to do well.

 

That's awesome. Flat out awesome.

 

I was raised by a depression era grandmother. We ate everything from scratch and always had a garden. She taught me to sew, crochet, and I finally figured out knitting (though I come from a family of knitters). I'm teaching my kids the same way.

 

Thanksgiving is all from scratch, even me making cornbread so that I can make stuffing out of it.

 

It is *crazy* to me that people love my food--how much they love it, and it's nothing special, it's just all from scratch. People are so used to fake food, that they have no idea what real food tastes like. It is rare that a bakery is even better than my family's baking.

 

I was exceptionally tired this morning, so the 10 yo is making eggs over and toast for everyone. It's not rocket science, you just have to teach them.

[BlsdMama]

Here's an interesting thing:

 

Oregon has a "gleaning program." This means they allow foundations to come through the fields and do all the clean-up and second pickings for free.

 

So, an example:

 

This year we've been on ten harvests so far with the association we work with.

 

Broccoli - The main crop (the good, marketable one) picked all the heads. But, broccoli grows a second crop - offshoots. WOW! That was AWESOME picking.

 

Apples - Backyard trees gone to waste because someone can't (old folks) or won't pick them.

 

Walnuts - Older gentleman, can't pick them and do the work to harvest

 

And so on and so forth. All of this food would have gone to waste!

What does the person/farm get? A 10% of their total crop production ($$) tax deduction.

 

Who does it go to? Half of the produce goes to the "army" of pickers. The other half is donated to food banks, food programs, women's shelters, etc.

 

HOW MUCH FOOD WOULD HAVE GONE TO WASTE?

 

In our county so far we have picked 110,000+ POUNDS of food this season.

 

And this is fresh produce - stuff the poor needs, but frankly, it's hard to come by and folks don't donate that kind of stuff.

 

For the second part of the observation:

 

Being from Iowa, PRIME farm land, I found it strange that we didn't have gleaning programs. And then I realized - WE DON'T ACTUALLY GROW FOOD IN IOWA.

 

No, we grow corn. We grow soybeans. In other words, we grow fillers, gasoline, unhealthy animal foods. (Cows shouldn't be fed grain - or at least not their whole lives, hence the increase of e.coli. You can read more at Iowa State University Ag Ext. They are doing a lot of research on the impact of feeding grain to cows.)

 

Field after field of grain that we mostly export. It's not corn like you could harvest and eat. There's a lot of confusion about this from people who don't farm. This is field corn - it's made for ethanol and it's made for feeding animals, but it's not made for human consumption unless you count corn corn meal/flour (useable, btw) and corn syrup, but that's not actually for human consumption either. :glare:

 

Then you have soy. I'll stop there on that little soapbox. :glare: :glare:

 

Then you could discuss cows. And you could talk about how inefficient cows are to feed compared to something like goats and how cows require prime pasture while goats can fluorish off scrub and eat far less and their feed:meat conversion is WAY higher than cows, but I won't. I'll just not.

 

So, you see... We could feed far more people IN THIS COUNTRY.

But we don't.

 

Why don't we?

 

Because certain crops are heavily subsidized. My parents are soybean farmers. They are corn farmers. They are pig farmers. Those are SAFE crops. Why? They are insured (for example the drought this year.) They are subsidized. They are protected by the government. You aren't going to lose the family farm over a bad corn year unless you somehow mismanaged because the government will keep you afloat, especially if you had insurance. My parents had 120 acres planted to corn that requires an insane amount of pesticides and herbicides and rapes the ground of nutrients. Almost all of it died. They're still okay and they have hogs to feed.

 

The farming system is jacked up.

We NEED our farmers.

But we also NEED them to use prime land to grow food. Real food. SUSTAINABLE food.

 

You know what amazed us when we moved out here to Oregon?

 

Beyond the amazing views, lol, and all the TREES! The CROPS! We'd never in our lives seen such varieties. In the back of our heads I guess we knew someone had to be growing cabbage, broccoli, mustard, squash, apples, cherries, peaches, hazelnuts, etc. But we'd never seen it. Just fields and fields of soybean and corn and the occasional field of alfalfa.

 

It blew us away.

Edited October 23, 2012 by BlsdMama

[Impish]

That's awesome. Flat out awesome.

 

I was raised by a depression era grandmother. We ate everything from scratch and always had a garden. She taught me to sew, crochet, and I finally figured out knitting (though I come from a family of knitters). I'm teaching my kids the same way.

 

Thanksgiving is all from scratch, even me making cornbread so that I can make stuffing out of it.

 

It is *crazy* to me that people love my food--how much they love it, and it's nothing special, it's just all from scratch. People are so used to fake food, that they have no idea what real food tastes like. It is rare that a bakery is even better than my family's baking.

 

I was exceptionally tired this morning, so the 10 yo is making eggs over and toast for everyone. It's not rocket science, you just have to teach them.

Always startles me the strong reaction homemade bread gets. Ppl go nuts for it...but it's neither difficult nor expensive to make.

 

It's just ppl don't do it anymore.

[ChristyB in TN]

Here's an interesting thing:

 

Oregon has a "gleaning program." This means they allow foundations to come through the fields and do all the clean-up and second pickings for free.

 

So, an example:

 

This year we've been on ten harvests so far with the association we work with.

 

Broccoli - The main crop (the good, marketable one) picked all the heads. But, broccoli grows a second crop - offshoots. WOW! That was AWESOME picking.

 

Apples - Backyard trees gone to waste because someone can't (old folks) or won't pick them.

 

Walnuts - Older gentleman, can't pick them and do the work to harvest

 

And so on and so forth. All of this food would have gone to waste!

What does the person/farm get? A 10% of their total crop production ($$) tax deduction.

 

Who does it go to? Half of the produce goes to the "army" of pickers. The other half is donated to food banks, food programs, women's shelters, etc.

 

HOW MUCH FOOD WOULD HAVE GONE TO WASTE?

 

In our county so far we have picked 110,000+ POUNDS of food this season.

 

And this is fresh produce - stuff the poor needs, but frankly, it's hard to come by and folks don't donate that kind of stuff.

 

For the second part of the observation:

 

Being from Iowa, PRIME farm land, I found it strange that we didn't have gleaning programs. And then I realized - WE DON'T ACTUALLY GROW FOOD IN IOWA.

 

No, we grow corn. We grow soybeans. In other words, we grow fillers, gasoline, unhealthy animal foods. (Cows shouldn't be fed grain - or at least not their whole lives, hence the increase of e.coli. You can read more at Iowa State University Ag Ext. They are doing a lot of research on the impact of feeding grain to cows.)

 

Field after field of grain that we mostly export. It's not corn like you could harvest and eat. There's a lot of confusion about this from people who don't farm. This is field corn - it's made for ethanol and it's made for feeding animals, but it's not made for human consumption unless you count corn syrup, but that's not actually for human consumption either. :glare:

 

Then you have soy. I'll stop there on that little soapbox. :glare: :glare:

 

Then you could discuss cows. And you could talk about how inefficient cows are to feed compared to something like goats and how cows require prime pasture while goats can fluorish off scrub and eat far less and their feed:meat conversion is WAY higher than cows, but I won't. I'll just not.

 

So, you see... We could feed far more people IN THIS COUNTRY.

But we don't.

 

Why don't we?

 

Because certain crops are heavily subsidized. My parents are soybean farmers. They are corn farmers. They are pig farmers. Those are SAFE crops. Why? They are insured (for example the drought this year.) They are subsidized. They are protected by the government. You aren't going to lose the family farm over a bad corn year unless you somehow mismanaged because the government will keep you afloat, especially if you had insurance. My parents had 120 acres planted to corn that requires an insane amount of pesticides and herbicides and rapes the ground of nutrients. Almost all of it died. They're still okay and they have hogs to feed.

 

The farming system is jacked up.

We NEED our farmers.

But we also NEED them to use prime land to grow food. Real food. SUSTAINABLE food.

 

You know what amazed us when we moved out here to Oregon?

 

Beyond the amazing views, lol, and all the TREES! The CROPS! We'd never in our lives seen such varieties. In the back of our heads I guess we knew someone had to be growing cabbage, broccoli, mustard, squash, apples, cherries, peaches, hazelnuts, etc. But we'd never seen it. Just fields and fields of soybean and corn and the occasional field of alfalfa.

 

It blew us away.

 

:iagree: great points. Did I mention :iagree:.