Question about childhood hunger in America

[swellmomma]

*in this area, the school district provides bkfst and lunch to the poor during the summer and during the school year. The actual food has all of the problems that Mrs. Obama has noted. The breakfast portions are so huge that elementary kids cant eat them, and carby: 6 oz oj or apple, milk, dd sized bagel with cream cheese, cereal. The protein seeems to be in the milk and the cream cheese. Eggs are never on the menu. Muffins and pancakes are in the rotation too. These foods don't have the nutrition that the growing child needs, even though they have the calories.

 

* feeding programs during the summer don't come with transportation unless the child is sped or in summer school (limited to a certain number of remedial chidlren). Most families don't live within walking distance and only cities have bus systems. So, should the family decide to go to the school for bkfast or lunch, they have to decide if it is worth the gas money or the up to ten mile walk. The adult is not allowed to have anything, not even the starchy stuff the child discards. I know teens that are hungry. It costs more to drive over to the school to get the food than it does to buy the food at the grocery and prepare it at home..they have enough time before the activities bus to get to a supermarket and fill their backpack up. if you were 16 and going to spend $5 for a meal, would you put that in the gas tank for a tray of starch and a milk, or would you put your time in to finding another dollar (probably by selling something or recycling) and then have lunch at the chinese buffet for $7, where you could get sufficient protein, or would you go buy meat and cook it up at home ? I am supplied propane for several hungry kids this summer so they could grill up some real food.

 

* lack of nutritional knowledge and math skills

A bag of chips equals a bag of apples these days in price. Most will take the chips first. Same scenario for a 12 pack of soda over a gallon of milk.

 

*parent bad choices due to lack of ability to delay gratification

 

*parent choice to neglect child

this one was an eye opener for me. There simply are many families where the adults don't feel children have needs such as clean clothing or shoes that fit, and it spans the income brackets. I've actually had one set come up to me and tell me how their brilliant genius child was going to go to MIT in two years. I'm biting my tongue to ask if there is a clothing allowance that includes laundry, as their child is dressed in rags while they're on the fast food wagon themselves. We have church thrift shops where they could easily fill a bag with the correct sized, clean, and appropriate for the weather clothing for a dollar, if they coudl be bothered to stop in on the way back from their activities.

 

*parent doesn't want to fill out forms

usually around here that means the father is present in the home but they've already claimed being homeless and the mother is on welfare father will be making enough under the table to support the family while the construction season is going, and they only need the free lunch when it snows

 

While I agree with the 2 bolded parts in urban areas that is not the case across the board, from community to community, state to state. For example, in my rural town, the price of groceries is very high, and the quality is very low. Our grocery store is the size of a convience store, they carry bags of 1 kind of apples for $8 a bag, ice berg lettuce, 5 lb bag of potatoes for $7, etc. Almost no produce, all expensive and within days of expiring. See to get to my tiny town, first the produce is shipped to the big city, then to the smaller town that then ships it out to my village. The cost of all that shipping means the groceries in my town are more expensive than the next town over. If you do not have the money for gas to the next town, or no way to drive (there is no bussing out here at all), or the $35 to taxi it each way. You have to shop for the expensive but low quality foods. Now in my town there is also no places to pick up fast food etc. The motel rest. is crap and very expensive. However the chips seel for $1.27 a bag, the pop for $1.25 plus deposit (whereas a 2L of milk is $4 plus deposit) etc. Pasta goes on sale every other week for for $2, whereas the cheapest meat is the hotdogs at $4 a package, or the cans of tuna at $2 each. Food was much cheaper in the big city and you are right in that location a bag of apples was reasonable.

 

As to the second item bolded There is no thrift shops in my town. The next town over has one that is open from 11-3, so most people are working and can not get to it. Items are run down and also expensive. I went in to try and find a dress shirt for ds14 to wear to his mess dinner. I could not find one in his size and the cheapest one that was close was $12, certainly not cheap when you are struggling to put food on the table. The 2 towns within 45 minutes of me do not have thrift shops, that means in order to access a good one I have to drive 2 hours on the highway to do so. That is 1 full tank of gas to do that. $47 just in gas. So if I want to shop cheaply at a thrift shop to afford new clothes I have to first spend nearly $50 just to get there and back, many families do not have the means to make that drive in the first place or the money to do so.

 

Yes there are some families that the hunger etc is tied to neglect but that is true of some families that have enough food, other needs of the children are neglected. I think it is very close minded to be so harsh in your judgements and make such generalizations that are a slap in the face to those on this board that have faced hunger and it has NOT been due to poor education, intelligence or neglect. Clearly you have not faced it or you would not make such claims

[LucyStoner]

Right now my group is raising money to pay for day care for a two year old living with a single dad making $10 an hour. He has had the same job for 4 years and it is the only skill he has. He is a great dad but simply only makes enough to pay their rent and groceries. He sometimes has to leave this child with people who don't take care of him like they should. $10 an hour means he doesn't qualify for any aid and are sometimes hungry.

 

In addition to the admirable charitable works you describe, I see this as a huge policy issue. In some states, little is available to this man. In others, much is. My brother and SIL moved to my state from Florida. There they recieved no assistance besides WIC and were regularly not making enough to have lights or food and were on the verge of homelessness. Here, they both were able to get some form of employment and after a year of transitional housing, they have a subsidy apartment. With food stamps and state medical and reduced utility rates for the low income, they do ok- this is with both parents working. A man making $20,000 a year in my state would qualify for a daycare voucher. It is much harder for the working poor to make it in some states than in others. Those are legislative priorities and decisions, plus a large network of charitable support (like utility assistance.)

[FaithManor]

Here they give out free meals at local parks during the summer (no questions asked) to help with that.

 

I doubt many in my community go hungry. If they do it's not because there isn't anything available to help them. There are TONS of programs, soup kitchens, food pantries, etc.

 

I think a bigger problem isn't lack of places to find food, but access to healthy food. We took a tour of the Food Bank (which is a huge operation). There is very little in the way of fresh produce or meat. It's all a lot of carbs and junk. Granted, I'd eat that before starving, but it's not healthy.

 

 

Right! and of course, if you eat mostly simple carbs, you feel hungry sooner so you need more food but, it's nutritionally bankrupt food. So, if you can find enough of it, then you aren't "hungry", but you are malnourished...just many times not looking that way because this type of food makes one overweight and not thin. It's a real catch 22. We'd all eat it before going without, but it's not a long term solution, that's for certain!

 

It will take a major re-education of the American public. Our local school serves poptarts because kids will eat them. The reality is they need to have several, consecutive mornings in which they serve only a small bowl of oatmeal that was cooked with a little egg, served with a couple of oz. of milk, and topped with a few raisins or blueberries. Still very cheap, but will fill the belly for far longer and with something that provides, iron, fiber, b vitamins, anti-oxidants, and protein. I am sure the kids will balk at first, and maybe a little brown sugar will have to be allowed or a drizzle of maple syrup in order to get them hooked, but a far better option.

 

I've also advocated for the soup/salad bar method of feeding kids hot lunch at school. The school board thinks I've lost my mind, but if that is all that's offered, hearty soups and stews and a salad bar with options, eventually kids will get the picture and start eating. It seems cruel to allow them to choose to go hungry for a few days, but I think that in the end, that would get old and they'd begin to embrace the new foods. Presentation helps...get out some real plates, have the teachers eat with the children, ask for donations of cloth napkins (staff could take turns washing them), put out some cheap vases of silk flowers, and make a real meal of it! Make it look like you aren't just herding them through a line, but actually care and want to have a meaningful meal with them. Part of getting them to eat healthfully is in the presentation. Make it look good!

 

One year at the K-8 Lutheran school that I taught at, we faculty members decided we wanted to do something about the way the kids were eating as well as improve the entire lunch-time atmosphere. So, we decided to cook a VERY healthy, but scrumptious lunch. Teacher's aides came into our rooms and took over for an hour, we went out, put on our aprons, cooked up a storm, then dressed up with chefs hats and coats borrowed from a culinary school, put out tablecloths, cloth napkins, real plates, bud vases with carnations in them, dimmed the lights, put on some soft music, and made QUITE the lunch time extravaganza of the whole thing. We wandered around referring to our students as "Mademoiselle or Senior, etc.", and generally made an over-done, spectacle of ourselves. We had the best conversations with the kids and despite all the veggies, fruits, and lean proteins offered, these kids ATE IT UP! Even the die hard, "I only eat junk food" kids. After that, we made it a tradition to cook once per month for them and to eat our lunches with them...role modeling good food, good conversation. We instituted a fresh fruit/veggie snack time for mid-morning and afternoon and school volunteers provided some extra in case a child forgot theirs, couldn't afford it, or their parent wouldn't provide it.

 

It made a difference. We saw it on their faces, in their energy levels, their ability to follow directions, concentrate, you name it...good nutrition helps abate a variety of problems.

 

But, I doubt we'd ever get past the bureaucracy at the local PS to get such a program instituted!

 

Faith

[Melinda in VT]

Right! and of course, if you eat mostly simple carbs, you feel hungry sooner so you need more food but, it's nutritionally bankrupt food. So, if you can find enough of it, then you aren't "hungry", but you are malnourished...just many times not looking that way because this type of food makes one overweight and not thin. It's a real catch 22. We'd all eat it before going without, but it's not a long term solution, that's for certain!

 

It will take a major re-education of the American public. Our local school serves poptarts because kids will eat them. The reality is they need to have several, consecutive mornings in which they serve only a small bowl of oatmeal that was cooked with a little egg, served with a couple of oz. of milk, and topped with a few raisins or blueberries. Still very cheap, but will fill the belly for far longer and with something that provides, iron, fiber, b vitamins, anti-oxidants, and protein. I am sure the kids will balk at first, and maybe a little brown sugar will have to be allowed or a drizzle of maple syrup in order to get them hooked, but a far better option.

 

I've also advocated for the soup/salad bar method of feeding kids hot lunch at school. The school board thinks I've lost my mind, but if that is all that's offered, hearty soups and stews and a salad bar with options, eventually kids will get the picture and start eating. It seems cruel to allow them to choose to go hungry for a few days, but I think that in the end, that would get old and they'd begin to embrace the new foods. Presentation helps...get out some real plates, have the teachers eat with the children, ask for donations of cloth napkins (staff could take turns washing them), put out some cheap vases of silk flowers, and make a real meal of it! Make it look like you aren't just herding them through a line, but actually care and want to have a meaningful meal with them. Part of getting them to eat healthfully is in the presentation. Make it look good!

 

 

The new federal regulations don't allow for self-serve portions, so our high school is removing its salad bar. I don't know how the new regulations are working in other parts of the country, but they are resulting in a huge decrease in the quality of food offered to kids around here.

[FaithManor]

I would rather prevent a replay of the French Revolution. What caused it? We are ignoring history.

 

 

Mrs. Mungo, spot on again! We aren't just ignoring it. Having seen the pathetic excuse for history curriculum used in our local school district, rewriting history with a very powerful, subversive agenda, would also be accurate. There seems to be a desire by those in power to see to it that this generation does not ever learn about the rise and fall of empires, the causes of the French Revolution, the run away inflation at the time of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, the true causes of the Great Depression, etc. It is extraordinary to me just how much is left out, how much is rewritten to the point of being total fiction presented as truth, and further, how little discussion there is on ANY topic, much less these important ones.

 

When the head of the history department says, "What do you mean, primary source documents?" in a conversation, you know you have let the fox into the hen house!!!! Oh yes, this person somehow managed to make iy through some history department in teacher's ed in some pathetic excuse of a college without ever hearing of "The Federalist Papers". Of course, a topic for another day would be, "Why did the head of the history department of my local school district also insist that George Washington gave the 'Gettysburg Address' at his first inauguration and then call me an ignorant homeschooler when I gently suggested that he might be referring to Abe Lincoln?" Somehow I cannot possibly imagine the children in his class learning any accurate information about something as heady as, "Why the peasants revolted in France?"

 

Again, off topic, and yet not! We are doomed to repeat history as long as we do.not.teach.it. The sinking of the U.S. is just another example of that truth. The fall-out being that what was not all that long ago, the wealthiest nation, has children going hungry and whole neighborhoods bankrupt of real food.

 

Faith

[Renee in NC]

The new federal regulations don't allow for self-serve portions, so our high school is removing its salad bar. I don't know how the new regulations are working in other parts of the country, but they are resulting in a huge decrease in the quality of food offered to kids around here.

 

The quantity has decreased, too. I think the idea is to lower obesity by offering less food, but it would make more sense to allow unlimited fruits/veggies and limit the rest.

[Beetkvass]

Have you ever been hungry and had someone hand you a sandwich? A no-strings-attached, no-questions-asked, sandwich when you needed it?

 

If not, then who are you to say that people feeding the poor do not make a difference.

 

If you have been in that situation, just take a moment to remember it and reflect on how good it feels to eat when you've been starving.

 

Our city tried to stop our church from feeding the homeless. We will not comply. The people who come to be fed by our mobile bus are people who can't or won't go to the shelter. The homeless will never all go to the shelters, for various reasons. Anyway, the shelters are running short, so they are turning people away. But can churches feed the hungry? Noooo. The hungry people, including children, must get in line at the shelter and wait to be turned away.

 

Real Americans will never comply with orders not to feed our fellow man. No way.

 

Amen to that! There is something seriously seriously wrong when you can be fined or penalized for giving food and water to the hungry.

[Melinda in VT]

The quantity has decreased, too. I think the idea is to lower obesity by offering less food, but it would make more sense to allow unlimited fruits/veggies and limit the rest.

 

Yes. I have three kids who run cross-country. I am very aware that the quantity of food has decreased.

 

Giving the same serving size to a prepubescent 7th grade non-athlete and a man-sized junior or senior who runs 6 miles is day is crazy.

[Renee in NC]

Yes. I have three kids who run cross-country. I am very aware that the quantity of food has decreased.

 

Giving the same serving size to a prepubescent 7th grade non-athlete and a man-sized junior or senior who runs 6 miles is day is crazy.

 

That has been a problem here, too, especially with the football players.

[justLisa]

It is UNREAL the amount per student the school receives, yet they cannot see real food.

 

This is such a maddening topic I don't even know how to put it in to words.

[Mrs Mungo]

In addition to the admirable charitable works you describe, I see this as a huge policy issue. In some states, little is available to this man. In others, much is. My brother and SIL moved to my state from Florida. There they recieved no assistance besides WIC and were regularly not making enough to have lights or food and were on the verge of homelessness. Here, they both were able to get some form of employment and after a year of transitional housing, they have a subsidy apartment. With food stamps and state medical and reduced utility rates for the low income, they do ok- this is with both parents working. A man making $20,000 a year in my state would qualify for a daycare voucher. It is much harder for the working poor to make it in some states than in others. Those are legislative priorities and decisions, plus a large network of charitable support (like utility assistance.)

 

Right. Florida was one of those states up in arms about welfare queens and addicts on welfare. So, they passed laws to "prevent" it. They have caught ZERO people. The program is costing millions of dollars to "prevent" something that isn't even Halle if rather than using that money to get aid to people who need it. And who is in charge there? For whom are you (general you) voting? What are those people *actually* doing when you take the rhetoric away?

[mom2scouts]

The quantity has decreased, too. I think the idea is to lower obesity by offering less food, but it would make more sense to allow unlimited fruits/veggies and limit the rest.

 

My senior son is a soccer player. He came home after the first week of school complaining about the changes in lunch and how he was hungry for most of the afternoon. By the time he was done with soccer practice, he would come home and eat just about anything he could find and we don't have a lot of snack foods. Trying to reduce obesity by reducing lunch quantity and calories has left many children, especially athletes, hungry. Another one size fits all solution.:glare:

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree that one-size-fits-all policies are usually bad ideas.

[FaithManor]

I know one family that uses "Ol Roy" canned dog food from Walmart as their primary source of protein when things get bad. Each person gets a tablespoon to spread on a slice of bread for a sandwich. They try to think of it as "spam"...apparently that brand is very cheap. They make the large can - sold for I think around $1.50 at the local Walmart - last at least a day.

 

One thing we haven't talked about is that in rural counties, at least ones like ours, there isn't any public transportation. If you are going to work, if you are going to get to a grocery store, then you've got to have a car. So, factor in that Michigan has one of the highest rates for car insurance in the nation ($1500.00 a year in many areas just for PLPD on a paid off, ten year old or older vehicle), and gas for that, and a large portion of any weekly paycheck can be gone just going to and from the job. We have four, count them, FOUR grocery stores in this county. One is the Walmart and frankly, the food there is so sub-par in quality it is sickening. One store caters to the upper earners and those trying to squeak out high quality or organic foods. Definitely not a store for those on a tight food budget. The third has nice produce, dairy, and meats, but is high priced due to not doing a huge amount of business so hence not getting those better bulk food discounts from the distributors, and the other is more reasonably priced but long distance for about 2/3rds of the county population.

 

I shop at a Mennonite Bulk Foods Store whose prices are extremely reasonable, organics are actually fairly affordable, and the quality of everything is quite high. While there are some convenience foods on the shelves, it is definitely the kind of place frequented by those that know how to cook from scratch. I keep my budget reasonable because the bulk of my shopping is from that store. However, it isn't even in this county and from my home is still a 20 mile drive one way. From the center or other three sides of the county, it could easily be 40-45 minutes even an hour one way, and a lot of gas money. So, it isn't a practical solution for everyone.

 

Two villages which each have at least 500 people, do not have anything more than the corner gas station/jiffy mart.

 

Faith

[Renee in NC]

Yeah I think what a lot of schools have a hard time with is not so much the healthier food, but the cost of storing it, the cost of special equipment, and the cost of cooking it including more staff. They serve Pop Tarts here for breakfast. Pop Tarts can last forever, don't require special storage, don't need to be cooked, and they can hire one minimum wage worker to hand them out. Imagine if they had to cook stuff like eggs. KWIM? So I think that's part of it.

 

Federal standards require any institution that gets federal food subsidy/reimbursement to meet certain quality (ahem) standards. These used to include the number of servings of certain food groups required for each meal (ie. 1 milk, a grain, a fruit, etc.) Now it just has to meet this ambiguous definition of healthy, and any definition that allows for a Pop Tart to be considered healthy is ridiculous!

[kubiac]

Just wanted to say that thanks to this thread, I have Googled and identified our local food bank. We've planted a lot of fruit trees around the house, and when and if the harvest ever gets out of hand and I don't have time to can or preserve, I'll be sure to deliver that stuff to the local food bank! Thanks for making me think about that.

 

If only I could do as much as this guy...

 

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cornucop/msg0817293022191.html

 

:)

[SKL]

. . . the pop for $1.25 plus deposit (whereas a 2L of milk is $4 plus deposit) etc. Pasta goes on sale every other week for for $2, whereas the cheapest meat is the hotdogs at $4 a package . . . .

 

As to the second item bolded There is no thrift shops in my town. The next town over has one that is open from 11-3, so most people are working and can not get to it. Items are run down and also expensive. I went in to try and find a dress shirt for ds14 to wear to his mess dinner. I could not find one in his size and the cheapest one that was close was $12, certainly not cheap when you are struggling to put food on the table. The 2 towns within 45 minutes of me do not have thrift shops, that means in order to access a good one I have to drive 2 hours on the highway to do so. That is 1 full tank of gas to do that. $47 just in gas. So if I want to shop cheaply at a thrift shop to afford new clothes I have to first spend nearly $50 just to get there and back, many families do not have the means to make that drive in the first place or the money to do so.

 

1) Pop is not food. Why do people always compare the cost of pop/soda to the cost of milk? It should be compared to the cost of water. That's like saying cigarettes are cheaper than heating fuel so no wonder people smoke.

 

As for the pasta & hot dogs, sounds like the cuisine I grew up on, and my family were healthy and mostly slim. A hotdog with mac'n'cheese and canned green beans for dinner isn't going to make a person fat or sick (or poor). That's health food compared to the diet that leads to most of the obesity among American young people.

 

I'll have to take people's word about not being able to find apples, carrots, and beans in poor neighborhoods. It definitely is not like that here, and I'm talking about one of the most impoverished cities in America. A lot of people choose to pass on those offerings because they don't want to eat that way. That's their choice. There are many days when I pass on fruits and veggies, too, but I don't make excuses for it.

 

2) What about eBay and the like? I have purchased lots of decent clothes (even new if I find a good source) for $5-$10/piece, and the cost of shipping (if any) is much less than the gas cost you mention. That's how I buy most nonperishables. Even if I have 100 shops in my vicinity, I don't have time to drag my kids from store to store looking for "that perfect item." You can also buy nonperishable food and other needed items online and often get free shipping. (Yes, I know you need a bank account to do that - or can the food stamp card be used? And you might need to borrow a computer or internet connection. But still, most people should be able to do this if they give it a serious try.)

[Guest]

I'll have to take people's word about not being able to find apples, carrots, and beans in poor neighborhoods. It definitely is not like that here, and I'm talking about one of the most impoverished cities in America. A lot of people choose to pass on those offerings because they don't want to eat that way. That's their choice. There are many days when I pass on fruits and veggies, too, but I don't make excuses for it.

 

I watched a film in my class at college (this past summer) that illustrated something like that. There was a food bank that had a huge donation of beautiful organic artisan loaves of bread. They could not give it away. The folks wanted Wonder bread. Here were these $5.00 loaves of very nutritious bread, but the people accessing the food bank simply would not choose that bread because it wasn't "normal" for what they eat. So, yes, I agree, sometimes that is the nature of the problem. If you're used to Wonder bread, you don't eat organic garlic semolina bread.

[SKL]

Back in the Jurassic when i was in public school, there were not as many adults involved. Students were hired as servers and janitors, so the overhead wasn't as high. Food was cooked at the school it was served at, so a driver and delivery truck weren't needed. I wonder what the price of labor and fuel was when the cost analysis was done that showed centralizing the kitchen was a great idea?

 

Aren't public school cafeteria employees part of a service union? If so, that would explain the insistence on using personnel who are full-fledged adult employees (who will pay union dues).

 

Personally I don't think hot lunches in schools are a good idea at all. I think they ought to offer nutritious brown-bag cold lunches and pass along any unused food to a homeless shelter / soup kitchen. I think the school hot lunch program is one of the biggest mistakes our country has made so far.

[Melinda in VT]

Aren't public school cafeteria employees part of a service union? If so, that would explain the insistence on using personnel who are full-fledged adult employees (who will pay union dues).

 

Personally I don't think hot lunches in schools are a good idea at all. I think they ought to offer nutritious brown-bag cold lunches and pass along any unused food to a homeless shelter / soup kitchen. I think the school hot lunch program is one of the biggest mistakes our country has made so far.

 

The lunches would lose a lot of variety if they had to be cold lunches only.

[SKL]

The lunches would lose a lot of variety if they had to be cold lunches only.

 

I don't care.

 

As average everyday adults, how much variety do we get in our lunches?

 

Actually I have almost always eaten a cold lunch (and breakfast and often supper), except when I'm heating up leftovers. My kids get a packed pbj 4 days per week (because their school lunch menu terrifies me) and they are quite happy with this. It worked for me as a kid, too. I'm thinking lunch variety doesn't need to be a national priority when we're talking about economic problems.

[stripe]

Tiffany, have you read Nickel and Dimed?

 

Another interesting book that came out recently is The American Way of Eating by Tracie McMillan. It's a much more general book about food -- including American produce picking, selling, and restaurants -- but it's worth a read.

[justLisa]

I don't care.

 

As average everyday adults, how much variety do we get in our lunches?

 

Actually I have almost always eaten a cold lunch (and breakfast and often supper), except when I'm heating up leftovers. My kids get a packed pbj 4 days per week (because their school lunch menu terrifies me) and they are quite happy with this. It worked for me as a kid, too. I'm thinking lunch variety doesn't need to be a national priority when we're talking about economic problems.

 

I hate to agree with this but I can see your point. I think it would cost less to have refrigeration for cold foods, rather than having to store it, cook it, keep it hot, etc. They could probably do cold salads and fruit type things.

 

The hot food served in school is not good at all.

 

I'd much rather my kids eat an apple and a cold sandwich than the quality of hot food served in the cafeteria.

 

I just can't understand how it costs $20k a year for one student and they cannot feed them properly.

Edited October 21, 2012 by 425lisamarie

[butterflymommy]

I'll have to take people's word about not being able to find apples, carrots, and beans in poor neighborhoods. It definitely is not like that here, and I'm talking about one of the most impoverished cities in America. A lot of people choose to pass on those offerings because they don't want to eat that way. That's their choice. There are many days when I pass on fruits and veggies, too, but I don't make excuses for it.

 

The notion of "food deserts" has been disproven:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of-food-deserts-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html?_r=1&hp

 

Until recently I lived in poor inner city neighborhoods my entire adult life. All had ethnic fruit/ veggie grocers within walking distance (many of those had fresh meat), all had asian or other ethnic takeout places (with lots of veggie dishes), and all had full service groceries within a 10-15 minute drive. All except the restaurants accepted food stamps. There were healthy options within walking distance if a person was determined to seek them out. One of the worst neighborhoods I lived in had a fish market and discount veggie stand. (of course, there were a ton of junk food options too)

 

In rural poor areas it's probably a very different situation, since you have to drive or take the bus, but my experience in urban poor neighborhoods is that there's healthy food to be found. People just don't want it or don't even recognize it as food. My hospital roommate when I had my last baby threw away all the food the hospital gave her-- chicken sandwiches, salads, bean soups-- she instead ate potato chips and sipped soda the entire time she was there. When people are accustomed to a certain way of eating it's well nigh impossible to change. Even those of us with plenty of food options available to us, who try to eat healthy and stay away from junk, can attest to that.

[SKL]

 

I just can't understand how it costs $20k a year for one student and they cannot feed them properly.

 

Sorry for being dense, but what is the $20K/year figure? I hope it's the total to educate the kids, including the lunch program?

[ChristyB in TN]

In addition to the admirable charitable works you describe, I see this as a huge policy issue. In some states, little is available to this man. In others, much is. My brother and SIL moved to my state from Florida. There they recieved no assistance besides WIC and were regularly not making enough to have lights or food and were on the verge of homelessness. Here, they both were able to get some form of employment and after a year of transitional housing, they have a subsidy apartment. With food stamps and state medical and reduced utility rates for the low income, they do ok- this is with both parents working. A man making $20,000 a year in my state would qualify for a daycare voucher. It is much harder for the working poor to make it in some states than in others. Those are legislative priorities and decisions, plus a large network of charitable support (like utility assistance.)

 

It has to be a regional issue. This young man has several people from different agencies working to find help for him. The day care is all my foundation can do right now.

[justLisa]

Sorry for being dense, but what is the $20K/year figure? I hope it's the total to educate the kids, including the lunch program?

 

I don't know how they break it down, but in our city that is about what it is.

 

It is $19,800 per student per year. I'm assuming that is with lunch, but really how can they NOT feed them better than that?

[Farrar]

I don't care.

 

As average everyday adults, how much variety do we get in our lunches?

 

Actually I have almost always eaten a cold lunch (and breakfast and often supper), except when I'm heating up leftovers. My kids get a packed pbj 4 days per week (because their school lunch menu terrifies me) and they are quite happy with this. It worked for me as a kid, too. I'm thinking lunch variety doesn't need to be a national priority when we're talking about economic problems.

 

But we get variety in our dinners instead. The kids who depend on school lunch to not go hungry usually don't get a hot dinner. Also, if done right, I'm pretty sure it's cheaper to serve a nutritious hot meal than an assembled cold one. Fruit and vegetables can be raw, but most proteins need to be cooked. They can be cooked and cooled (but then why bother?) or bought already cooked (more preservatives and higher cost).

[Melinda in VT]

I hate to agree with this but I can see your point. I think it would cost less to have refrigeration for cold foods, rather than having to store it, cook it, keep it hot, etc. They could probably do cold salads and fruit type things.

 

The hot food served in school is not good at all.

 

I'd much rather my kids eat an apple and a cold sandwich than the quality of hot food served in the cafeteria.

 

I just can't understand how it costs $20k a year for one student and they cannot feed them properly.

 

The bolded really, really depends on the school. Around here, the schools focus on local food, and the quality is excellent.

 

Or it was, until the federal government instituted the new regulations. :glare:

[Farrar]

By the way, if you live in an inner city like I do, then it's easy to understand how food costs more for people in the cities - and many poor people live in the city. In my neighborhood, there's now plenty of market options with plenty of fresh food, but when we first moved here, people were still much more reliant on the corner markets, which did not have any fresh produce typically (most of them have now shut down in our neighborhood thanks to gentrification). And there are neighborhoods not close to mine where people are still very dependent on their corner stores. Plus, the cost is just higher. All the basics cost more. If you're out somewhere with a Wal-Mart, it's very easy to say, why would someone pay that much... but when you're in the city, without a car, it's much easier to understand. In some cases, people pay more than twice as much to buy food in the city. But if they move out, they're less likely to find jobs.

[Lovedtodeath]

Dh is doing a research paper on this topic and found something saying 17 million or so kids go hungry in America each year. Not sure how accurate that statistic is but the idea is the same. So we were talking last night and are truly baffled as to how this happens with WIC, food stamps, etc in place. This isn't a judgement *at all*. Do these programs provide too little help, are the parents selling the food stamps, are they in food deserts and don't have nutritious food? Is it a combination of these factors? How have we managed to let such a huge number of children go hungry? :confused:

Hunger in the world is almost always an abuse by those in power. Charities provide food and money and the hungry do not benefit. The question is in the case of hungry children, who has the power?

[SKL]

All the basics cost more. If you're out somewhere with a Wal-Mart, it's very easy to say, why would someone pay that much... but when you're in the city, without a car, it's much easier to understand. In some cases, people pay more than twice as much to buy food in the city. But if they move out, they're less likely to find jobs.

 

Maybe the unions shouldn't block Walmarts from operating in those cities.

 

Here, we helped finance an inner-city retail project with the big-boxes suburbia has, including Wal-Mart and others. This was in the middle of a low-income neighborhood and provided many jobs plus real access to many down-to-earth conveniences that people want. The community was ecstatic. However, it was a bloody knock-down-drag-out with the unions, and 7 years later, folks are still dealing with the fallout.

 

We also happen to have a lot of Aldi's and Dave's supermarkets in the low-income parts of the city, urban greenhouses, a large open-air farmer's market, and ethnic markets. So it's not like Wal-Mart has destroyed the livelihood of every other retailer / food outlet in the city.

Edited October 22, 2012 by SKL

[JenC3]

I don't care.

 

As average everyday adults, how much variety do we get in our lunches?

 

Actually I have almost always eaten a cold lunch (and breakfast and often supper), except when I'm heating up leftovers. My kids get a packed pbj 4 days per week (because their school lunch menu terrifies me) and they are quite happy with this. It worked for me as a kid, too. I'm thinking lunch variety doesn't need to be a national priority when we're talking about economic problems.

 

Yep, I ate PB & J for years. Except of course when they served *pizza* my kids eat a cold lunch at home most days. I make them a hot breakfast and dinners end up being 50/50 cold hot. I just make sure whatever we eat includes ton of fruits and veggies.

[SKL]

But we get variety in our dinners instead. The kids who depend on school lunch to not go hungry usually don't get a hot dinner. Also, if done right, I'm pretty sure it's cheaper to serve a nutritious hot meal than an assembled cold one. Fruit and vegetables can be raw, but most proteins need to be cooked. They can be cooked and cooled (but then why bother?) or bought already cooked (more preservatives and higher cost).

 

That assumes the hot meals they get are nutritious. Personally I think they do more harm than good.

 

And cold dinner isn't the end of the world either. We eat it here quite often.

 

Further, the money saved by giving kids traditional sack lunches could be used to better address the fact that some kids don't get dinner. I'm not buying the theory that the garbage they get at school is effective in offsetting malnutrition at home. Might as well give them a dollar for a McSandwich if that's going to be our standard.

[justLisa]

The bolded really, really depends on the school. Around here, the schools focus on local food, and the quality is excellent.

 

Or it was, until the federal government instituted the new regulations. :glare:

 

THat is most definitely NOT the case here.

[justLisa]

But we get variety in our dinners instead. The kids who depend on school lunch to not go hungry usually don't get a hot dinner. Also, if done right, I'm pretty sure it's cheaper to serve a nutritious hot meal than an assembled cold one. Fruit and vegetables can be raw, but most proteins need to be cooked. They can be cooked and cooled (but then why bother?) or bought already cooked (more preservatives and higher cost).

 

Yeah that's a point. Cold protein is hard. Deli meats and that kind of thing. And lots of kids have egg/nut allergies.

[Bluegoat]

I don't care about variety so much, but I don't consider PB & J everyday all that healthy.

 

If my kids went to school though, I'd pack their lunch. Thankfully that is still an option around here. In some places it isn't.

 

No, I don't really either. I don't really think kids need a ton of different foods every day, but PB&J are a little too heavy on the sugar for every day IMO.

[SKL]

I don't care about variety so much, but I don't consider PB & J everyday all that healthy.

 

If my kids went to school though, I'd pack their lunch. Thankfully that is still an option around here. In some places it isn't.

 

PB is actually really healthy, if you don't buy the kind loaded with sugar. ;) Especially if you couple it with fresh fruit/veggies. At school they get potato chips or fries for their "fruit/veg" every single day (there is an option for a salad, but it's an option and these are young kids). The main dish is always a "fast food" type option.

 

I've heard they are forcing schools to provide more fruits/veg, but for whatever reason the kids are wasting them. If the offering was a simple cold sack lunch, these apparently overindulged kids would bring their own food, and the ones who really needed the subsidized nutrition would be more likely to eat it or take it home rather than waste it. And maybe we'd even stop contributing to the trend of youth obesity.

 

It honestly makes me sick to think of all the money and food we waste in the name of "providing all children a nutritious meal." :glare:

[Farrar]

Maybe the unions shouldn't block Walmarts from operating in those cities.

 

Here, we helped finance an inner-city retail project with the big-boxes suburbia has, including Wal-Mart and others. This was in the middle of a low-income neighborhood and provided many jobs plus real access to many down-to-earth conveniences that people want. The community was ecstatic. However, it was a bloody knock-down-drag-out with the unions, and 7 years later, folks are still dealing with the fallout.

 

We also happen to have a lot of Aldi's and Dave's supermarkets in the low-income parts of the city, urban greenhouses, a large open-air farmer's market, and ethnic markets. So it's not like Wal-Mart has destroyed the livelihood of every other retailer / food outlet in the city.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this. I live near a very new urban development with suburbanesque stores over the subway (not Wal-Mart though) and it has, indeed, helped every part of the community. But it's not the poor people blocking the Wal-Mart typically.

[6packofun]

Our church pays $500 a month to get a delivery from the Cleveland Food Bank. It is the food bank's JOB to feed the poor and hungry well! You would think that the food selection would include a variety from all the food groups, but it is terribly carb-heavy. It's very frustrating.

 

This month, we got cans of beef stew as the ONLY protein, NO canned veggies or fruits, and then boxes of mac n cheese, loaves of bread, white rice, and--MUFFINS. Prepared Otis Spunkmeyer brand muffins in double chocolate, cinnamon apple and lemon poppy seed. Oh yes, THIS is what we need to be feeding the needy. Made me ill. Not that I don't want people to have something sweet and "frivolous" once in a while, but this was in addition to donuts, bagels and cupcakes!!

 

I know that a lot of people have food issues, BUT I think that many people would be better served by having hot, freshly prepared, economical AND healthy meals available. At least in addition to such a limited selection from our food pantry! That means more time and manpower, but I really believe that the church is supposed to be stepping it up to do these things.

[Julie in Austin]

Our church pays $500 a month to get a delivery from the Cleveland Food Bank. It is the food bank's JOB to feed the poor and hungry well! You would think that the food selection would include a variety from all the food groups, but it is terribly carb-heavy. It's very frustrating.

 

This month, we got cans of beef stew as the ONLY protein, NO canned veggies or fruits, and then boxes of mac n cheese, loaves of bread, white rice, and--MUFFINS. Prepared Otis Spunkmeyer brand muffins in double chocolate, cinnamon apple and lemon poppy seed. Oh yes, THIS is what we need to be feeding the needy. Made me ill. Not that I don't want people to have something sweet and "frivolous" once in a while, but this was in addition to donuts, bagels and cupcakes!!

 

I know that a lot of people have food issues, BUT I think that many people would be better served by having hot, freshly prepared, economical AND healthy meals available. At least in addition to such a limited selection from our food pantry! That means more time and manpower, but I really believe that the church is supposed to be stepping it up to do these things.

 

Not sure how it works where you are, but when we volunteered at a food pantry, almost everything there was there because it was donated. So there was a TON of unhealthy baked goods (muffins, cake, etc.) because those things can only be on the store shelves for a few days and then they donate them.

 

It made me sick to be helping people fill their carts with these totally junky carbs and virtually no protein or nothing fresh/unpprocessed . . . until I realized that if it weren't for the junk carbs, we'd have pretty much nothing at all to give them.

[6packofun]

I know that most of the bread products are day-old donations from Sam's Club and other grocery stores. BUT our church is *paying* for a selection of foods that the food bank can (supposedly) purchase at deep discount. I'd rather have fewer, HEALTHY items than all of the additional simple carb stuff. lol

[kalanamak]

 

Free breakfast at our local school district - poptarts (off brand), one per student.

 

 

 

Where is the barf emoticon?

[stripe]

I also don't think it helps that many people don't know how to cook. I don't mean poor people; I mean, many people in all economic groups. This means that many people have no clue what to do with produce in the raw, no clue what to do with a chicken, no clue what to do with rice or pasta. There is a little section in the grocery store with oils, flour, and sugar, and then like two more whole aisles with cake mix, pudding mix, muffin mix, corn bread mix, and so on. Then there are four thousand varieties of frozen potato products, and so on, tons of frozen veges in sauce, frozen meats in various configurations, frozen meals, all of these things generally vastly more expensive and less healthy than the real, plain food would be -- even if cooked up into the same type thing at home. this leads to expensive groceries and poor health.

 

Obviously those with fewer food choices, a limited budget, no place to cook, and/or spotty living arrangements have an even harder time cooking their own nutritious meals. But I think honestly not knowing what to do is a big problem. A problem people of older generations did not have.

 

Another book suggestion: The Kitchen Counter Cooking School: How a Few Simple Lessons Transformed Nine Culinary Novices into Fearless Home Cooks, by Kathleen Flinn.

[QueenCat]

Not sure how it works where you are, but when we volunteered at a food pantry, almost everything there was there because it was donated. So there was a TON of unhealthy baked goods (muffins, cake, etc.) because those things can only be on the store shelves for a few days and then they donate them.

 

 

 

That's how all of the food banks work around here. They are run by volunteers and the food is donated from mostly individuals and grocery stores. Grocery stores donate things on their expiration date, especially baked goods, or things that are close to it (canned items).

[oldskool]

I hate to agree with this but I can see your point. I think it would cost less to have refrigeration for cold foods, rather than having to store it, cook it, keep it hot, etc. They could probably do cold salads and fruit type things.

 

The hot food served in school is not good at all.

 

I'd much rather my kids eat an apple and a cold sandwich than the quality of hot food served in the cafeteria.

 

I just can't understand how it costs $20k a year for one student and they cannot feed them properly.

 

The food service department does not get any of that $20k a year per student (our district spends 22k per student :001_huh:). That is a separate pot of money. The food service provided meals get paid through federal/ state reimbursements and through paid meals from students.

 

Our district has an awesome food service program. They are very tuned into health and food trends and provide quality meals with very little money. Sadly that's where the awesomeness ends -- our graduation rate is 43%.

[OrganicAnn]

I don't know about the numbers, but I know there is still a lot of poverty in pockets both urban and rural. One of my favorite organization is Christian Appalachian Project. Diana Sawyer did a big series of shows about the Appalachian areas and the poverty that existed.

[Amira]

I also don't think it helps that many people don't know how to cook. I don't mean poor people; I mean, many people in all economic groups. This means that many people have no clue what to do with produce in the raw, no clue what to do with a chicken, no clue what to do with rice or pasta. There is a little section in the grocery store with oils, flour, and sugar, and then like two more whole aisles with cake mix, pudding mix, muffin mix, corn bread mix, and so on. Then there are four thousand varieties of frozen potato products, and so on, tons of frozen veges in sauce, frozen meats in various configurations, frozen meals, all of these things generally vastly more expensive and less healthy than the real, plain food would be -- even if cooked up into the same type thing at home. this leads to expensive groceries and poor health.

 

Obviously those with fewer food choices, a limited budget, no place to cook, and/or spotty living arrangements have an even harder time cooking their own nutritious meals. But I think honestly not knowing what to do is a big problem. A problem people of older generations did not have.

 

Another book suggestion: The Kitchen Counter Cooking School: How a Few Simple Lessons Transformed Nine Culinary Novices into Fearless Home Cooks, by Kathleen Flinn.

 

:iagree: When we've lived overseas in places where salaries are extremely low and food prices are relatively very high, people still are often able to eat a healthier diet than many Americans simply because they know what to do with a bag of wheat, or how to can tomatoes when they're cheap in the summer, or how to prepare winter vegetables. And some of the rooms I've seen food prepared in didn't have anything more than a low table, a knife and a bowl, and an electric tea kettle. But it's very time-consuming to prepare food that way, even if it is less expensive and healthy.

 

And I thought that was a great book too.

[AimeeM]

Not sure how it works where you are, but when we volunteered at a food pantry, almost everything there was there because it was donated. So there was a TON of unhealthy baked goods (muffins, cake, etc.) because those things can only be on the store shelves for a few days and then they donate them.

 

It made me sick to be helping people fill their carts with these totally junky carbs and virtually no protein or nothing fresh/unpprocessed . . . until I realized that if it weren't for the junk carbs, we'd have pretty much nothing at all to give them.

I looked up our parish food bank's *need* list before I went shopping this morning so that I could help fill the box a bit. One of the first things I noticed was that it dictates NO FRESHLY PREPARED foods, fresh foods (must be in "original packaging") or frozen items - I assume there must be a legal issue with homemade items and that there is nowhere to freeze the frozen items?

I purchased (as per the list): peanut butter, tuna fish, canned fruit, soups, hot cocoa mix, canned meat (chicken breast in this case), and baby food. It appears that this is as good as it gets? I looked at a few different local sites to see what they needed in terms of food - and only one accepted frozen or fresh foods... and it's a very large food bank. The small food banks that serve just as many people seem to have to do without because of some red tape not allowing them to accept fresh foods (like the one at the parish center).

[LucyStoner]

Amen to that! There is something seriously seriously wrong when you can be fined or penalized for giving food and water to the hungry.

 

Oh heck yes. I cooked and served with Food Not Bombs for years starting around age 14. If the wrong cops were on duty, we would get cited for feeding hot food to homeless people.