Question about childhood hunger in America

[AvasMom]

Dh is doing a research paper on this topic and found something saying 17 million or so kids go hungry in America each year. Not sure how accurate that statistic is but the idea is the same. So we were talking last night and are truly baffled as to how this happens with WIC, food stamps, etc in place. This isn't a judgement *at all*. Do these programs provide too little help, are the parents selling the food stamps, are they in food deserts and don't have nutritious food? Is it a combination of these factors? How have we managed to let such a huge number of children go hungry? :confused:

[Starr]

I don't know but teachers in our community take food to some of their students. And the food pantry is looking for more food since the schools are cutting back on portions for the students that qualify for free meals. We are in a state that has many programs for the poor so I imagine it's worse other places.

[ballardlm]

This is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt : ). I think it is a combination of all that you mentioned. WIC isn't a stand alone nutrition program, it is supplemental only and stops at age 5. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a fantastic program, but it won't keep a kid full by itself. Food stamps are often abused and misused and in my opinion the parents aren't typically being malicious, just ignorant. They have never been taught how to price compare and cook things from scratch, which means that they buy a lot of pre-packaged expensive stuff and their food stamps don't go very far that way. Or they buy the pre-packaged stuff because they are working and it's something the kids can fix themselves. I know my mom who is a teacher has students that she sends food home with every weekend because the only time they get to eat is at school. Again, I don't have any statistics; this is just from personal experience growing up in a low socioeconomic area. I am very interested to see what other responses you get!

[Parrothead]

All of the above.

 

There are a few people I'm sure selling food stamps. Getting the card was supposed to stop that. Now the parents just sell the cards.

 

Then there are some who don't qualify for food stamps such as the working poor.

 

Then there are the ones who have no permanent address. They can't get assistance.

 

Then there are the kids who have a parent or parents to strung out to provide food even if they have the money.

 

Lots of reasons. Sadly we live in a fallen world.

[AvasMom]

We hadn't even thought about the fact that some of these kids have no permanent address. That's a big one and something to look into. I told him to dig up some articles about the backpack programs as well. How sad that kids not getting to eat all weekend is prevalent enough to need such a program. :(

[SKL]

I've heard that statistic and I wonder, where did they get that information? I suspect a lot of extrapolation.

 

I think I read that they include children who have been hungry one time during a given year. (Of course "hungry" being defined in American terms, i.e., not having the recommended amount of calories every day or some such.) I could see that happening in the case of a family crisis or a move or some such thing. I could see it happening in cases where the parents are afraid to sign up for help, e.g., they aren't supposed to be in the USA or they are in trouble with the law. And of course if the family becomes truly homeless (I'm not talking about living with Grandma).

[mommymilkies]

All of the above.

 

There are a few people I'm sure selling food stamps. Getting the card was supposed to stop that. Now the parents just sell the cards.

 

Then there are some who don't qualify for food stamps such as the working poor.

 

Then there are the ones who have no permanent address. They can't get assistance.

 

Then there are the kids who have a parent or parents to strung out to provide food even if they have the money.

 

Lots of reasons. Sadly we live in a fallen world.

:iagree: :iagree: Growing up, I had several friends who faced hunger, and I did on and off from about age 11 up. The biggest reasons I have experienced:

 

It is nearly impossible to get food stamps in this state. I made minimum wage, was a single mom, and pg and I *still* didn't even qualify for a little help, other than WIC. For WIC, I had to take a day off work about once every 2 months to do some stupid nutrition training to qualify for aid. Luckily this was less of a problem when I worked night shift, but makes it very difficult for many people. I spent HOURS a month doing this for very little food. It is very common for people to make too much for aid, but too little to buy food.

 

Misplaced parental priorities-I had several friends who were often hungry and malnourished (lucky to get a packet of Ramen noodles a day) but whose parents smoked and spent tons at the bar. Often they weren't around enough to realize there was no food in the house other than beer.

 

Families with an undocumented family member. The possibility of having a mom or dad deported to get food was too high.

[blakereese]

All of the above.

 

There are a few people I'm sure selling food stamps. Getting the card was supposed to stop that. Now the parents just sell the cards.

 

Then there are some who don't qualify for food stamps such as the working poor.

Then there are the ones who have no permanent address. They can't get assistance.

 

Then there are the kids who have a parent or parents to strung out to provide food even if they have the money.

 

Lots of reasons. Sadly we live in a fallen world.

 

 

This is a huge issue. It is very possible to not have enough money to feed your child, but still not be "poor enough" to receive aid.

 

There's definitely a lot of reasons that so many children are hungry, but it can be so hard to understand in a country as "rich" as the US. I wish it were a simple problem to solve. :(

[AimeeM]

This is a huge issue. It is very possible to not have enough money to feed your child, but still not be "poor enough" to receive aid.

 

There's definitely a lot of reasons that so many children are hungry, but it can be so hard to understand in a country as "rich" as the US. I wish it were a simple problem to solve. :(

:iagree:

Everything a parents owns is an "asset" - never mind that they don't live on a bus line so they *need* that car; never mind that the piece of property they own won't sell in the current economy, even at a loss; never mind that they are upside down on that mortgage from a better time in their lives... it's all considered an asset and too many assets disqualify you for aid.

[AvasMom]

This is a huge issue. It is very possible to not have enough money to feed your child, but still not be "poor enough" to receive aid.

 

There's definitely a lot of reasons that so many children are hungry, but it can be so hard to understand in a country as "rich" as the US. I wish it were a simple problem to solve. :(

 

That's what has us so in awe. Hunger is understandable in countries where there is famine, constant war, no clean water, etc but it just shouldn't happen right next door to affluence.

[mommymilkies]

That's what has us so in awe. Hunger is understandable in countries where there is famine, constant war, no clean water, etc but it just shouldn't happen right next door to affluence.

 

If it was a fair world. Unfortunately, that affluence is built on the backs of the poor.

[SKL]

If it was a fair world. Unfortunately, that affluence is built on the backs of the poor.

 

There will always be poor people regardless of how any country is run or how wealthy it is.

 

It would be good for us to improve how we meet the basic needs of the poor, but blaming poverty on affluence isn't a step in that direction IMO.

[AimeeM]

There will always be poor people regardless of how any country is run or how wealthy it is.

 

It would be good for us to improve how we meet the basic needs of the poor, but blaming poverty on affluence isn't a step in that direction IMO.

Agreed.

[edelweiss]

There will always be poor people regardless of how any country is run or how wealthy it is.

 

It would be good for us to improve how we meet the basic needs of the poor, but blaming poverty on affluence isn't a step in that direction IMO.

 

Yep!

[littleWMN]

There will always be poor people regardless of how any country is run or how wealthy it is.

 

It would be good for us to improve how we meet the basic needs of the poor, but blaming poverty on affluence isn't a step in that direction IMO.

 

Amen!

 

To the OP, I'd love to read your husband's report. I've always wondered about this myself. I consider myself pretty "in the world," but I don't see a lot of hungry kids. I know they exist but don't know how to help.

[cara]

Another issue especially in urban areas is a lack of groceries stores that sell good quality fresh produce and meats at affordable prices. Yet there are tons of Dollar Tree / Family Dollar type stores that sell prepackaged garbage.

 

It is also easier and cheaper to buy junk. I can get 10 nutritionally void pizzas for $10 that would feed the kids lunch for 2 weeks. It cost more than $10 to make one homemade pizza from scratch especially now that we are gluten free, not to mention the time it takes.

 

These are huge issues plaguing the poor inner city neighborhoods.

[cara]

Amen!

 

To the OP, I'd love to read your husband's report. I've always wondered about this myself. I consider myself pretty "in the world," but I don't see a lot of hungry kids. I know they exist but don't know how to help.

 

Donate to your local food bank. That is KEY! Ours does so much to help combat hunger but it can only function as long as it is getting volunteers and donations.

[Carol in Cal.]

Around here the conventional wisdom is that kids are malnourished during the summer when their free and reduced lunch program meals are not available. I don't know of any actual documentation of that, but I have heard it anecdotally quite a bit.

 

What I have seen is that at the charity downtown that gives food away to poor families that I am directly involved with, there are a lot of people who use almost all of their takehome pay to just pay rent and maybe gas for work, and don't have anything left over to speak of for food, clothes, or anything else. Our non-profit gets food from Second Harvest, and from individual donors, and gets clothing from individuals as well, and toys for Christmas presents, and when the families get this stuff it is a huge for them, and still extremely sparten. We are one of the more generous of the Second Harvest charities, and it is still very sobering to see a two week supply of food laid out on a table--mostly offbrand staples, almost no refrigerated items, maybe corn flakes but never a name brand, and not very much of anything. It's a good week when we have eggs or cheese to offer. Once in a great while we will get some frozen meat, which is hard to handle but very welcome. We do get some canned meat, which is very helpful.

 

Every once in a while I will be able to get a grant to buy necessities at Costco to supplement this. It is always so nice to be able to do that. Then we can buy cans of good chili (for less than it costs to make it from scratch), and big bags of shredded cheese--very popular. New socks. Laundry detergent.

 

I can easily believe that the kids in the families that we help are hungry. Easily. And it's a crying shame.

 

If we had a better vehicle we could go to the Costco warehouse and get remainder pallets--because if they have a pallet of watermelons and one splits, they have to get rid of the whole thing because none of the stores want to pay full price for an incomplete pallet and they don't have an efficient way to charge less for this, so they would just as soon donate it.

 

But our truck is a 1 ton that is so old we cannot believe that it is still running. (Chewing gum, baling wire, and the grace of God are the cited things that hold it together.) And so the trip to the warehouse is not reasonable--we need a reliable used 2 ton truck to be able to expand our offerings in that way.

[Desert Rat]

The food pantry I work for serves about 400 individuals a month. 40-60% are kids (depending on the month). They are very busy at the end of the month covering the gap between food stamp deliveries.

I think a main problem is that they give people food stamps but don't give them any education on how to stretch them with coupons, comparison shopping and looking for good values.

The church that the pantry works under used to have lunches during the summer for neighborhood kids who would go hungry otherwise because they depend on school lunch programs. They had a minimum of 50 kids every day they were open. And that was just from surrounding neighborhoods. Often, the mothers would stand there and watch their children eat. You know they were hungry, too.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's not just education. It's space and tools.

 

I have seen how people live around here and it is not pretty. An old, falling down Victorian house will be chopped up into 9 rooms, each rented for an exorbitant price. These are not necessarily normal sized rooms either. In one 'conversion' I saw, the landlord had put up cheap dividing walls to make the former living room into THREE such rooms. A family of three might rent one of these rooms. Their clothes are piled on the floor. They take turns using the bed or let the mother always have it. The entire houseful shares the single kitchen and single refrigerator. They can't secure their cold food from each other, although they have a locked half-cabinet each in the kitchen. They have to all share one or two bathrooms.

 

These are the working poor.

 

If they buy beans or rice in bulk, how do they store it? And if they cook up a bunch of it, how do they store that? If they are working 2 jobs just to avoid homelessness, how do they cook from scratch? And BTW, there are no supermarkets in walking distance, so they have to shop at small markets and convenience stores. What should they do?

 

McDonalds and Taco Bell look pretty cheap if you only buy entrees and no drinks. For protein they are almost better deals than cooking in these conditions unless you can get free food somewhere else.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

There will always be poor people regardless of how any country is run or how wealthy it is.

 

It would be good for us to improve how we meet the basic needs of the poor, but blaming poverty on affluence isn't a step in that direction IMO.

 

 

The current wealth and income gap in this nation is part of the problem.

[SKL]

I think it would be easier to get food to hungry people if there weren't so many regulations about it. In poor countries, food doesn't get thrown out, it is given to someone who will eat it despite the fact that the vacuum seal is broken etc.

 

I heard recently of a woman in a big city who was making free sandwiches for kids to eat during the summer. She was threatened with penalties because she didn't pay the local license fee to serve food.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I think it would be easier to get food to hungry people if there weren't so many regulations about it. In poor countries, food doesn't get thrown out, it is given to someone who will eat it despite the fact that the vacuum seal is broken etc.

 

I heard recently of a woman in a big city who was making free sandwiches for kids to eat during the summer. She was threatened with penalties because she didn't pay the local license fee to serve food.

 

 

There are generally enough organizations working to help alleviate the problem in an organized way that random sandwich makers, while well ineltentioned, do not really make a difference. It is also reasonable to expect those supplying food to the public to have some oversight.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

There are generally enough organizations working to help alleviate the problem in an organized way that random sandwich makers, while well ineltentioned, do not really make a difference. It is also reasonable to expect those supplying food to the public to have some oversight.

 

Have you ever been hungry and had someone hand you a sandwich? A no-strings-attached, no-questions-asked, sandwich when you needed it?

 

If not, then who are you to say that people feeding the poor do not make a difference.

 

If you have been in that situation, just take a moment to remember it and reflect on how good it feels to eat when you've been starving.

 

Our city tried to stop our church from feeding the homeless. We will not comply. The people who come to be fed by our mobile bus are people who can't or won't go to the shelter. The homeless will never all go to the shelters, for various reasons. Anyway, the shelters are running short, so they are turning people away. But can churches feed the hungry? Noooo. The hungry people, including children, must get in line at the shelter and wait to be turned away.

 

Real Americans will never comply with orders not to feed our fellow man. No way.

[Jen in PA]

It's not just education. It's space and tools.

 

I have seen how people live around here and it is not pretty. An old, falling down Victorian house will be chopped up into 9 rooms, each rented for an exorbitant price. These are not necessarily normal sized rooms either. In one 'conversion' I saw, the landlord had put up cheap dividing walls to make the former living room into THREE such rooms. A family of three might rent one of these rooms. Their clothes are piled on the floor. They take turns using the bed or let the mother always have it. The entire houseful shares the single kitchen and single refrigerator. They can't secure their cold food from each other, although they have a locked half-cabinet each in the kitchen. They have to all share one or two bathrooms.

 

These are the working poor.

 

If they buy beans or rice in bulk, how do they store it? And if they cook up a bunch of it, how do they store that? If they are working 2 jobs just to avoid homelessness, how do they cook from scratch? And BTW, there are no supermarkets in walking distance, so they have to shop at small markets and convenience stores. What should they do?

 

McDonalds and Taco Bell look pretty cheap if you only buy entrees and no drinks. For protein they are almost better deals than cooking in these conditions unless you can get free food somewhere else.

 

:iagree: All of that, plus sometimes all of the cooking is being done with just a microwave or a hot plate. Sometimes the cooking is being done by kids left home while single parents are at work. Some of these kids are living in motel rooms with no way to heat up or refrigerate any food at all.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I just don't get how to address all the special dietary needs- I mean it has to be fair if it's licensed, right? :tongue_smilie:

[swellmomma]

I can't answer the question about WIC and food stamps because they don't exist here. But if things like food banks there are like here I can see why. Anywhere I have lived the food bank can only be accessed once a month. They give you enough food to feed a family for a week. The idea is of course that it is just supposed to help you get by not cover all your food expenses but for many families that is all the food you get for a month and so it is diligently rationed. Everyone in the family eats very little each day and so the children are still hungry even with the bit of food daily. And the food given is not particularily good as far as nutrition goes. In the city often the produce was wilted and half rotted, so that left the canned goods. For a long time there was a shortage of donations so families were not even getting things like rice, or peanut butter or beans etc. It was kraft dinner, stale bread and a few cans of soup.

 

Like Blakereese pointed out as well, many families are the working poor, they make too much for any sort of assistance, but not enough to keep everyone well fed. I've been in that position far too often. In my home though I try to make sure the kids are not hungry. When I still lived in the city there was a few times I did not eat for a few days to make sure there was enough food to last until my next pay cheque. There has been times since moving here that I have put myself on 1 meal per day to make sure there was enough food to stretch for 3 meals for the kids each day. Not all families even have enough food to do that. Or due to health issues could not do that (a parent with diabetes for example can not skip meals like that for instance)

 

I think the issue of child hunger is very complex and there is no simple answers as to why they are hungry or how to fix it. The reasons for it are as varied as the families living it, and what helps 1 family over come it is merely a bandaid for another family.

[mommymilkies]

There will always be poor people regardless of how any country is run or how wealthy it is.

 

It would be good for us to improve how we meet the basic needs of the poor, but blaming poverty on affluence isn't a step in that direction IMO.

 

So big wealthy companies like Walmart who treat their employees like garbage and make off with billions have nothing to do with it, right? Or the banks who were bailed out on taxes that could have gone to helping *people*? Because frankly, we wouldn't have such a gap in affluence without a large and underpaid workforce. Look what happened to the South when slavery became illegal. Think about how much people would end up complaining because their clothes cost more since they were made by fair labor. That's why we ship it all overseas, right? I'm not talking affluence like "wow, their neighbor has an iPod!" I'm talking true wealth gaps in this country where 1% has so much, yet we have millions starving.

[Melissa B]

In most of the areas I've lived in FL the poorest familes are without any electricity. So even with WIC and food stamps there is no refrigerator or stove. The only cooked meals or dairy products tend to come from the schools or soup kitchens. And we have lots of "tent cities." Most of these are illegal seasonal workers that don't dare ask for any help, but even the legal workers or homeless families in tent cities have no address and no access to anything like food stamps.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I just wanted to reiterate the issue with the working poor. We fall through the cracks. We struggle to pay our bills, live paycheck to paycheck, and sometimes don't even make enough to quite cover the "have to pay" items. 99% of the time groceries are the first to be cut. On average, we get to grocery shop once every 3 months or so (when student loans come in, or tax time).......we try to make it a big shop with lots of staples, but realistically, it only lasts 3wk or so. The rest of the time we have to find other ways to make up the difference. We live very frugally, but at the end of the day there just isn't enough to cover it all - and we make over the limit for food stamps. WIC helps, but they've cut back on what they offer too.

 

Like someone else mentioned, I have skipped meals, at times, to make sure there was enough for the kids, and I often ration their food/snacks to make things stretch as far as I can. DH only eats one meal a day (dinner) 99% of the time. However, I make a very conscious effort to make sure that the kids never go truly hungry.

 

I know that so many have it so much worse, and I'm thankful we stay afloat, but I think people in our situation often go unnoticed or are forgotten about. Food is probably our #1 budget struggle. It seems like there is never enough left after bills are paid. I know there are so many out there like us!

[butterflymommy]

I've often wondered about these statistics. Childhood obesity is skyrocketing yet millions of children are going hungry. And obesity is more prevalent with poor children who are more likely to lack basic resources.

 

It may have to do with how the data is gathered. I know in my city, when people apply for food stamps they are asked if they are hungry right then and when was the last time they ate. If they are hungry right then they are given extra assistance in the interim until the food stamps are issued and food bought with it. Of course it would behoove everyone applying for food stamps to say they are hungry, so it's possible data is inaccurate in this regard.

 

If anyone remembers the documentary recently discussed about high school dropouts, one thing mentioned in the docu is how the kids often came to school hungry, there was even a scene where one of the counselors gave a kid a banana for breakfast. Yet all the kids profiled were on the heavy side, even the young woman who was homeless.

 

I think a more accurate description might be "missing meals" or "inconsistent access to food." But "hunger" in the sense of third world hunger doesn't seem to exist in the US.

 

This is not to imply that it's somehow ok to miss meals or for kids to have inconsistent access to meals and food, just that the idea of millions of children chronically hungry is possibly misleading.

[Rivka]

I've often wondered about these statistics. Childhood obesity is skyrocketing yet millions of children are going hungry. And obesity is more prevalent with poor children who are more likely to lack basic resources. [...]

 

If anyone remembers the documentary recently discussed about high school dropouts, one thing mentioned in the docu is how the kids often came to school hungry, there was even a scene where one of the counselors gave a kid a banana for breakfast. Yet all the kids profiled were on the heavy side, even the young woman who was homeless.

 

I think a more accurate description might be "missing meals" or "inconsistent access to food." But "hunger" in the sense of third world hunger doesn't seem to exist in the US.

 

This is not to imply that it's somehow ok to miss meals or for kids to have inconsistent access to meals and food, just that the idea of millions of children chronically hungry is possibly misleading.

 

Obesity is absolutely related to chronic hunger and food insecurity, in multiple ways. In the first place, your body reacts to hunger with metabolic changes that greatly increase fat storage. In the second place, when your body has been deprived of food it drives you - physiologically - to binge when food is available. In the third place, your food dollar stretches many, many times further if you spend it on junky sugars and fats compared to vegetables and lean meats - both in terms of the sheer bulk of food, and the calories/satiety it gives you.

 

Almost $300 billion of government subsidies support an agriculture industry that focuses on quantity not quality, on producing cheap sugar and fats from corn and soy that fuel both hunger and obesity. These calorie-rich, sugary, processed foods are what most people buy if they don’t have enough money. You can fill up on 1200 calories of cookies or potato chips for $1, but you’ll only get 250 calories from carrots for that same $1. If you were hungry, what would you buy?

 

Processed foods have become cheaper as real food grows more expensive. The US Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that between 1985 and 2000 the retail price of carbonated soft drinks rose by 20 percent, fats and oils by 35 percent, and sugars and sweets by 46 percent. Compare that to the 118 percent increase in the retail price of fresh fruits and vegetables. In 15 years the price of vegetables ballooned six times as fast as the cost of sugary, calorie-rich, nutrient-poor sodas.

 

 

The biggest difference between hunger in America and hunger someplace like Africa is that in America there is periodic access to large amounts of sugar, fat, and empty-of-nutrition calories. It doesn't mean that the hunger poor Americans feel is trivial.

[elfgivas]

I just wanted to reiterate the issue with the working poor. We fall through the cracks. We struggle to pay our bills, live paycheck to paycheck, and sometimes don't even make enough to quite cover the "have to pay" items. 99% of the time groceries are the first to be cut. On average, we get to grocery shop once every 3 months or so (when student loans come in, or tax time).......we try to make it a big shop with lots of staples, but realistically, it only lasts 3wk or so. The rest of the time we have to find other ways to make up the difference. We live very frugally, but at the end of the day there just isn't enough to cover it all - and we make over the limit for food stamps. WIC helps, but they've cut back on what they offer too.

 

Like someone else mentioned, I have skipped meals, at times, to make sure there was enough for the kids, and I often ration their food/snacks to make things stretch as far as I can. DH only eats one meal a day (dinner) 99% of the time. However, I make a very conscious effort to make sure that the kids never go truly hungry.

 

I know that so many have it so much worse, and I'm thankful we stay afloat, but I think people in our situation often go unnoticed or are forgotten about. Food is probably our #1 budget struggle. It seems like there is never enough left after bills are paid. I know there are so many out there like us!

 

:grouphug: kristin. thank you for putting a face to this for all of us. :grouphug:

[Mrs Mungo]

Tiffany, have you read Nickel and Dimed? There are plenty of families in which at least one adult goes to work every day, but they simply do not make enough money to pay their bills. Why do they make so little? Because manufacturing jobs are going away.

 

Why are manufacturing jobs going away?

 

Wal-Mart is THE largest business in the US and they push manufacturing jobs out of the US *on a daily basis*. They control enormous amounts of wealth. They use their wealth to push legislation to lower regulations and make it easier for them to ship jobs overseas.

 

First, a real-life example:

My dh worked for a small manufacturing business when we were in college. The owners were already millionaires from the money they received from the business, even though it was only a small-time manufacturing company. They sold to companies like Bass Pro Shops and other speciality retailers. They had about 2 part-time employees who made minimum wage, about 10 full-time employees who earned a little bit higher wage and received some benefits, and a couple of managers who earned more than the full-time employees. The part-time employees were single guys without families, the full-time employees were mostly women who worked in the office and in the shipping department, the managers were men who were supporting families.

 

Wal-Mart approached the owners about putting their product in Wal-Mart stores. The price-point that Wal-Mart wanted was so low that the company would not have been making a profit. So, Wal-Mart encouraged and *actively helped* them move part of their business to Mexico. They later did the same to help them move the entire thing to China, then to sell their business to a large Chinese firm.

 

Wal-Mart is THE reason that Levi's jeans are no longer made in the US. Wal-Mart is THE reason that Lockmith locks are no longer made in the US. The same is true of *hundreds, if not thousands* of companies that used to help support local economies.

 

in 2011 alone, Wal-Mart spent almost 8 million dollars on lobbying.

 

http://www.tradereform.org/2012/07/not-made-in-america-top-10-ways-walmart-destroys-us-manufacturing-jobs/

 

Wal-Mart hires illegals in order to keep wages low.

 

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/wal-mart/raid2.htm

 

The Walton family controls more wealth than the bottom 40% of Americans.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/31/bernie-s/sanders-says-walmart-heirs-own-more-wealth-bottom-/

 

So, yes. I think CR is correct that the rich are building their wealth on the backs of the poor *and to the detriment* of all of us.

 

I think CR is wrong that a lone sandwich giver cannot make a difference, but I think she is probably right that it doesn't make *enough* difference. Can that sandwich maker seek out k2bdeutmeyer and feed her? No. The food bank I worked at in Hawaii made a difference, but I agree that it doesn't make *enough* difference.

 

What can make a difference? The same thing that has PROVEN to make a difference in our history. Social reform. Regulations on trade. Regulations on companies. Does that mean we stifle a certain brand of wealth growing? Of course, but that *type* of wealth-growing is detrimental to our economy and country as a whole. Read the history of the suffragette movement. Read the history of the child labor movement. Read the history of the labor movement. Read the history of the robber barons. Read about the Koch brothers, the Walton family and who and what they support. Pay attention to what politicians support with their legislation and their votes, rather than what they SAY.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[LucyStoner]

Obesity is absolutely related to chronic hunger and food insecurity, in multiple ways. In the first place, your body reacts to hunger with metabolic changes that greatly increase fat storage.

...

 

 

The biggest difference between hunger in America and hunger someplace like Africa is that in America there is periodic access to large amounts of sugar, fat, and empty-of-nutrition calories. It doesn't mean that the hunger poor Americans feel is trivial.

 

Absolutely. The poor are far more likely to be obese. Obesity does not mean lack of hunger or sufficent nutrition.

 

Also consider the recreational value of food. Growing up poor we could never afford many recreational activities or vacations. However every so often we could afford a duck to fry or a big meal complete with 4 layer chocolate cake. So instead of family vacations, you may essentially have a family binge session between weeks of the same pot of spaghetti sauce. Then when you have a bit more, it is hard to not replicate that binge.

 

I never starved as a child. But for the most part we had a kitchen (even if just a small one in a ramshakle 1 bedroom house or decaying motel) and we always had 1 parent who could cook and had access to basic kitchen wares. As an adult working in social services, I saw many many families with none of that.

[Mrs Mungo]

I never starved as a child. But for the most part we had a kitchen (even if just a small one in a ramshakle 1 bedroom house or decaying motel) and we always had 1 parent who could cook and had access to basic kitchen wares. As an adult working in social services, I saw many many families with none of that.

 

Many of the families I have helped serve at food banks also had none of that. They often lived in a hotel room. *Maybe* they had a little fridge and microwave. All of the food we gave out was shelf-stable, which obviously limits the nutritional quality.

[swellmomma]

Obesity is absolutely related to chronic hunger and food insecurity, in multiple ways. In the first place, your body reacts to hunger with metabolic changes that greatly increase fat storage. In the second place, when your body has been deprived of food it drives you - physiologically - to binge when food is available. In the third place, your food dollar stretches many, many times further if you spend it on junky sugars and fats compared to vegetables and lean meats - both in terms of the sheer bulk of food, and the calories/satiety it gives you.

 

 

 

 

The biggest difference between hunger in America and hunger someplace like Africa is that in America there is periodic access to large amounts of sugar, fat, and empty-of-nutrition calories. It doesn't mean that the hunger poor Americans feel is trivial.

 

The bolded is the feast or famine that I now my family faces as do many many other families. Food is there and prevalent for 2 weeks of the month, the family eats great, the 2nd 2 weeks not so much until the last few days before the next pay cheque leaves you with pretty much nothing.

 

As far as obesity goes. It is common with families that can't afford to get food to live primarily on carbs. Pasta and rice are cheap, produce and meat is expensive. I have dropped weight quickly in the last couple weeks because of going low carb, which for the last couple weeks I could afford to do. However when money for food has been tight we live off ramen noodles, spaghetti, and rice with perhaps some sauce, or canned veggies mixed in. If you are eating ramen noodles 3 meals a day you are getting no good nutrition, as it is the body clings to carbs it seems add in a body that is in starvation mode holding on to everything you eat. I also think of things like the fact you can go to a fast food joint and get a burger for $1-2. With all the food restrictions you can no longer make sandwiches to send to school with your kid for that cheap. In the ps my kids used to attend there was no peanut butter, no fish(such as tuna) and no eggs allowed due to allergies. No access to a microwave to heat up left overs. So sandwiches with meat was the only option. Deli meat is expensive. I could hit the drive thru on the way to the school and pick up each kid a cheeseburger to put in their lunch kit for $1 each or I could spend $8 on deli meat for 3 days, and $5 on a loaf of bread, and another few bucks on mustard. So my choice could have been around $15 for 3 days sandwiches or $6 for 3 days of cheeseburgers. The difference in price meant the kids could have a peice of fruit in their lunch bags too if I bought the cheeseburgers. That sort of thing certainly contributes to the obesity levels in poor families. I get that whole ingredients long term are cheaper but if you do not access to a way to cook the food to begin with, or to reheat a decent meal for left overs it is not a cheaper option. Thankfully once my kids started homeschooling I no longer had to worry about that. Leftovers and pasta became lunch each day.

 

You are right hunger in a 1st world country is vastly different than hunger in a 3rd world country. And I don't think the 2 should be compared. Telling a hungry person that their hunger doesn't really count because they sometimes have food vs those other countries is a huge slap in the face (general comment not directed at anyone specifically).

[Farrar]

Rivka said it well.

 

And I wanted to add to the idea that the number of impediments for poor people to get to good food is astounding. Someone else mentioned lack of kitchen space and food storage space. Transportation is also a huge issue. I have the privilege of having a car and can drive to Costco for some deals, to Aldi's for others, to whichever grocery store I want. I can afford to buy the membership at Costco to save money in the long run. Or to look online and print coupons because I have a computer. Or even to scan prices with my phone to see if its cheaper at the grocery up the street. Many people aren't able to do those things.

[Impish]

Rivka said it well.

 

And I wanted to add to the idea that the number of impediments for poor people to get to good food is astounding. Someone else mentioned lack of kitchen space and food storage space. Transportation is also a huge issue. I have the privilege of having a car and can drive to Costco for some deals, to Aldi's for others, to whichever grocery store I want. I can afford to buy the membership at Costco to save money in the long run. Or to look online and print coupons because I have a computer. Or even to scan prices with my phone to see if its cheaper at the grocery up the street. Many people aren't able to do those things.

:iagree:when I was a single mom, bus or cab was the only option. Way too far to walk, esp carrying groceries. Shopping around, buying in bulk? forget it. Not possible.

[Barbara H]

Ditto to the suggestion of the book Nickel and Dimed.

 

While it is far from a complete solution to the problem of food insecurity in this country, one thing I find terribly upsetting is the amount of food waste. At my neighborhood Kroger grocery store, I regularly see them filling up cartloads of produce to trash. Most of it is perfectly fine produce that most of us would be glad to use. This is not rotten food, but often stuff with minor blemishes, less than perfectly shaped, or just vegetables they've way overstocked on and don't have room for on the shelve. I've spoken with the manager about it and they will not sell it at a reduced rate or donate it so it is straight to the dumpster. The whole thing makes me see red - it is a waste or energy and resources and is disrespectful to farmers who grew the food.

[Impish]

Ditto to the suggestion of the book Nickel and Dimed.

 

While it is far from a complete solution to the problem of food insecurity in this country, one thing I find terribly upsetting is the amount of food waste. At my neighborhood Kroger grocery store, I regularly see them filling up cartloads of produce to trash. Most of it is perfectly fine produce that most of us would be glad to use. This is not rotten food, but often stuff with minor blemishes, less than perfectly shaped, or just vegetables they've way overstocked on and don't have room for on the shelve. I've spoken with the manager about it and they will not sell it at a reduced rate or donate it so it is straight to the dumpster. The whole thing makes me see red - it is a waste or energy and resources and is disrespectful to farmers who grew the food.

And around here, you can get charged for dumpster diving to boot :glare:

[AvasMom]

As far as obesity goes. It is common with families that can't afford to get food to live primarily on carbs. Pasta and rice are cheap, produce and meat is

You are right hunger in a 1st world country is vastly different than hunger in a 3rd world country. And I don't think the 2 should be compared. Telling a hungry person that their hunger doesn't really count because they sometimes have food vs those other countries is a huge slap in the face (general comment not directed at anyone specifically).

 

I know this isn't directed at anyone but I wanted to clarify my previous comment since I was the one to bring it up. I meant that you would expect to see hunger in a place with war and famine because there isn't food anywhere...obviously people will be hungry almost as a matter of course. I meant that it just shouldn't happen in a country where we have affluence, can grow food, etc, etc. I hate that political and social factors contribute so much to this problem. It's something that doesn't have to happen and shouldn't. I don't want my comment to be read as saying that the hungry in the US have less value because that's not even close to accurate.

[FaithManor]

We are one of the more generous of the Second Harvest charities, and it is still very sobering to see a two week supply of food laid out on a table--mostly offbrand staples, almost no refrigerated items, maybe corn flakes but never a name brand, and not very much of anything. It's a good week when we have eggs or cheese to offer. Once in a great while we will get some frozen meat, which is hard to handle but very welcome. We do get some canned meat, which is very helpful.

 

I can easily believe that the kids in the families that we help are hungry. Easily. And it's a crying shame.

 

 

 

 

It is sobering Carol! Crazy sobering.

 

This is what our church gives when someone applies for benevolence help.

 

one 5 lb. bag of apples

one 10 lb. bag of potatoes

one lb. bananas

one bunch romaine lettuce

three bags baby carrots

one 10 lb. bag of oranges when in season for a reasonable price

two onions

one bottle of salad dressing - usually ranch because it seems that most people eat that

two loaves of bread

 

two gallons of milk

two lbs. butter

two lbs. shredded cheddar

one tub sour cream

 

four jars spaghetti sauce

four pkgs. pasta

two lbs of rice

eight cans tuna

four cans mandarin oranges - apparently many kids like these

four cans kidney beans

four cans tomato sauce

seasoning packet for chili - made up by the ladies of the church

eight cans green beans

large tub of peanut butter (skippy, no HCFS - lower sugar variety) for those that do not have peanut allergies

 

If the family has a freezer, we then provide two roasting chickens, five lbs of ground chuck (we buy bulk and the supermarket graciously repackages into one lbs. packages as a courtesy to our ministry), and if they will eat venison, some frozen venison from area farmers.

 

One jug of Arm and Hammer Baking Soda detergent

One shampoo, one conditioner, one large package of feminine hygiene products per female in the house (unless, obviously, this is not a problem due to the ages of the ladies), one package of razors and one can of shaving cream, one toothbrush per family member, one toothpaste, 12 rolls toilet paper, one deodorant per adult or teen, one package of bandaids, some ponytail holders, and a tube of antibiotic ointment to go with those bandaids. Oh, two bars of soap and a bottle of dishsoap round out the supplies.

 

We are a church of 225 people and a good 60 of those are kids. So, you can imagine that as much as we'd love to, we cannot reach that many people. It's discouraging because we know the groceries do not last that long. Sometimes when turkeys get cheap at Thanksgiving and the supermarkets do "turkey bucks", we can get several and give those away as well. However, those are good for families in which the parents are just going through a rough patch and cooking is a no-brainer for them. They've always cooked. However, we find that where generational poverty is an issue, the knowledge of how to cook, especially something big like a turkey, has been lost. Many only know how to dump something from a box into boiling water, wait 8 minutes, mix the packet, and serve or microwave a pot pie.

 

Free breakfast at our local school district - poptarts (off brand), one per student.

 

Free lunch - small portions, always chips with chicken nuggets and cookies, or macaroni and cheese with chips and cookies, or .......you get the picture. It's entirely inexpensive, simple carbs. Some of the area churches do take apples and carrots up and the teachers offer them to the students. That's great for those that have been taught to eat such things, but any students do not take them. I think that these items along with a healthy protein should be what is offered. The children may balk at first, but if the belly is hungry, they may learn to eat the healthier fare. Apparently, when oranges are in season, they are popular and the school begs for the churches to provide oranges. GRRRRR..... of course this is the same school district that increased the sports budget 20% while laying off teachers, but then bought the superintendent a Cadillac to tool around in when on "school business". Seriously, I went to the school board meeting and asked them how many apples and oranges they'd be able to provide low income students for the cost of the *&&^ cadillac. They.were.not.amused. I'm not a favorite person of theirs anyway, so thankfully I wasn't out to win a popularity contest.

 

It's a complex problem and we'll never completely conquer it. However, I think we have to begin trying to make a difference one community at a time and that would include demands at the local and state level by an angry mob of the voting public to answer for corruption, financial accountability, and deciding what things are important to us and what isn't...plus, getting up in arms about the amount of waste there is in our social safety net systems, not to mention in our schools where maybe if the sports budget wasn't raise 20%, the children on free and reduced price meals might be offered real food instead of begging churches to bring fruit.

 

Faith

[FaithManor]

And around here, you can get charged for dumpster diving to boot :glare:

 

Absolutely, not only that, Michigan has such extremist public health laws, that the reason the grocery stores do not donate it is that if it isn't practically perfect, the store is cited for health code violations and could be shut down. Apparently, the smallest blemish and if people aren't willing to purchase it (in which case they are apparently making and assumption of risk) then you can't give it away to some one who wants it. According to our bureucrats, that is taking advantage of the poor and they can't make an assumption of risk about eating an apple with a tiny bruise, or cutting off the slightly wilted part of a celery stalk!

 

Grrrrr...... same way with restaurants. In many, many locales, restaurants cannot donate leftover food to homeless missions and soup kitchens. Quite stupid!

 

Faith

[ChristyB in TN]

I believe the numbers. I work to feed the hungry in my community every day and they are hungry for many reasons.

The homeless, particularly moms and children living in cars is growing. We have no numbers on them because they don't tell anyone most of the time. You can't get a lot of aid without an address and the government housing in y area is unsafe for anyone. I don't know how the children living there survive.

Right now my group is raising money to pay for day care for a two year old living with a single dad making $10 an hour. He has had the same job for 4 years and it is the only skill he has. He is a great dad but simply only makes enough to pay their rent and groceries. He sometimes has to leave this child with people who don't take care of him like they should. $10 an hour means he doesn't qualify for any aid and are sometimes hungry. Time for the community to step in.

Recent immigrants, legal and illegal, face hunger regularly. They either are afraid to ask for help or don't know how.

We see kids who have parents without the IQ needed to obtain food. It is not easy, always, for someone to get to an agency and apply for aid. If your IQ is below 80, it doesn't always register that you need to!

Drugs. The biggest problem we see is prescription drug abuse and it is obtained legally from the pain clinics and doctors who don't give a sh!t. I get angry just writing about it. :cursing:

 

Deal is,it doesn't matter why they are hungry or whether or not the parent is worthy of help. We MUST feed children as a matter of compassion. I beg you all to check into the local backpack program and see if you can donate or solicite donations. Be the person at your church who helps provide for children without making demands of them or preachingtotheir parents. see if you can help make a difference by working at an urban farmers market or help to make a community garden for a block where kids don't have access to fresh veggies. I have more,just ask!

[cathmom]

Tiffany, have you read Nickel and Dimed? There are plenty of families in which at least one adult goes to work every day, but they simply do not make enough money to pay their bills. Why do they make so little? Because manufacturing jobs are going away.

 

Why are manufacturing jobs going away?

 

Wal-Mart is THE largest business in the US and they push manufacturing jobs out of the US *on a daily basis*. They control enormous amounts of wealth. They use their wealth to push legislation to lower regulations and make it easier for them to ship jobs overseas.

 

First, a real-life example:

My dh worked for a small manufacturing business when we were in college. The owners were already millionaires from the money they received from the business, even though it was only a small-time manufacturing company. They sold to companies like Bass Pro Shops and other speciality retailers. They had about 2 part-time employees who made minimum wage, about 10 full-time employees who earned a little bit higher wage and received some benefits, and a couple of managers who earned more than the full-time employees. The part-time employees were single guys without families, the full-time employees were mostly women who worked in the office and in the shipping department, the managers were men who were supporting families.

 

Wal-Mart approached the owners about putting their product in Wal-Mart stores. The price-point that Wal-Mart wanted was so low that the company would not have been making a profit. So, Wal-Mart encouraged and *actively helped* them move part of their business to Mexico. They later did the same to help them move the entire thing to China, then to sell their business to a large Chinese firm.

 

Wal-Mart is THE reason that Levi's jeans are no longer made in the US. Wal-Mart is THE reason that Lockmith locks are no longer made in the US. The same is true of *hundreds, if not thousands* of companies that used to help support local economies.

 

in 2011 alone, Wal-Mart spent almost 8 million dollars on lobbying.

 

http://www.tradereform.org/2012/07/not-made-in-america-top-10-ways-walmart-destroys-us-manufacturing-jobs/

 

Wal-Mart hires illegals in order to keep wages low.

 

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/wal-mart/raid2.htm

 

The Walton family controls more wealth than the bottom 40% of Americans.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/31/bernie-s/sanders-says-walmart-heirs-own-more-wealth-bottom-/

 

So, yes. I think CR is correct that the rich are building their wealth on the backs of the poor *and to the detriment* of all of us.

 

I think CR is wrong that a lone sandwich giver cannot make a difference, but I think she is probably right that it doesn't make *enough* difference. Can that sandwich maker seek out k2bdeutmeyer and feed her? No. The food bank I worked at in Hawaii made a difference, but I agree that it doesn't make *enough* difference.

 

What can make a difference? The same thing that has PROVEN to make a difference in our history. Social reform. Regulations on trade. Regulations on companies. Does that mean we stifle a certain brand of wealth growing? Of course, but that *type* of wealth-growing is detrimental to our economy and country as a whole. Read the history of the suffragette movement. Read the history of the child labor movement. Read the history of the labor movement. Read the history of the robber barons. Read about the Koch brothers, the Walton family and who and what they support. Pay attention to what politicians support with their legislation and their votes, rather than what they SAY.

Wow. That makes me feel ill!

[FaithManor]

Tiffany, have you read Nickel and Dimed? There are plenty of families in which at least one adult goes to work every day, but they simply do not make enough money to pay their bills. Why do they make so little? Because manufacturing jobs are going away.

 

Why are manufacturing jobs going away?

 

Wal-Mart is THE largest business in the US and they push manufacturing jobs out of the US *on a daily basis*. They control enormous amounts of wealth. They use their wealth to push legislation to lower regulations and make it easier for them to ship jobs overseas.

 

First, a real-life example:

My dh worked for a small manufacturing business when we were in college. The owners were already millionaires from the money they received from the business, even though it was only a small-time manufacturing company. They sold to companies like Bass Pro Shops and other speciality retailers. They had about 2 part-time employees who made minimum wage, about 10 full-time employees who earned a little bit higher wage and received some benefits, and a couple of managers who earned more than the full-time employees. The part-time employees were single guys without families, the full-time employees were mostly women who worked in the office and in the shipping department, the managers were men who were supporting families.

 

Wal-Mart approached the owners about putting their product in Wal-Mart stores. The price-point that Wal-Mart wanted was so low that the company would not have been making a profit. So, Wal-Mart encouraged and *actively helped* them move part of their business to Mexico. They later did the same to help them move the entire thing to China, then to sell their business to a large Chinese firm.

 

Wal-Mart is THE reason that Levi's jeans are no longer made in the US. Wal-Mart is THE reason that Lockmith locks are no longer made in the US. The same is true of *hundreds, if not thousands* of companies that used to help support local economies.

 

in 2011 alone, Wal-Mart spent almost 8 million dollars on lobbying.

 

http://www.tradereform.org/2012/07/not-made-in-america-top-10-ways-walmart-destroys-us-manufacturing-jobs/

 

Wal-Mart hires illegals in order to keep wages low.

 

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/wal-mart/raid2.htm

 

The Walton family controls more wealth than the bottom 40% of Americans.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/31/bernie-s/sanders-says-walmart-heirs-own-more-wealth-bottom-/

 

So, yes. I think CR is correct that the rich are building their wealth on the backs of the poor *and to the detriment* of all of us.

 

I think CR is wrong that a lone sandwich giver cannot make a difference, but I think she is probably right that it doesn't make *enough* difference. Can that sandwich maker seek out k2bdeutmeyer and feed her? No. The food bank I worked at in Hawaii made a difference, but I agree that it doesn't make *enough* difference.

 

What can make a difference? The same thing that has PROVEN to make a difference in our history. Social reform. Regulations on trade. Regulations on companies. Does that mean we stifle a certain brand of wealth growing? Of course, but that *type* of wealth-growing is detrimental to our economy and country as a whole. Read the history of the suffragette movement. Read the history of the child labor movement. Read the history of the labor movement. Read the history of the robber barons. Read about the Koch brothers, the Walton family and who and what they support. Pay attention to what politicians support with their legislation and their votes, rather than what they SAY.

 

Thank you Mrs. Mungo!

 

There is nothing wrong with building wealth, but there is a type of wealth building that is downright immoral and brings countries to their knees. If this continues, this country will practically return to the "lord and serf" days. I have no desire to return to a feudal system, but that is exactly what this kind of wealth building produces.

 

I could say more about nutritionally caused obesity, but this would derail the thread into what has happened to the family, locally owned farm at the hands of a couple of very powerful agricultural conglomerates that practically own the Department of Agriculture and since this causes me to practically froth at the mouth like a rabid dog, I'll refrain. :D

 

Faith

[mommymilkies]

FaithManor, bless you. Just bless you. It is really amazing that there are wonderful people out there like you and your church.

[QueenCat]

Around here the conventional wisdom is that kids are malnourished during the summer when their free and reduced lunch program meals are not available. I don't know of any actual documentation of that, but I have heard it anecdotally quite a bit.

 

 

 

Our county addressed this by providing lunch, to all who qualified for free/reduced lunch, at the city rec centers & other local spots. Most of the centers are on the bus line. It is funded jointly with federal, state and local dollars. They have free rec programs going on at the same time but you don't have to participate in those to get lunch.

[Mrs Mungo]

I meant that it just shouldn't happen in a country where we have affluence, can grow food, etc, etc. I hate that political and social factors contribute so much to this problem. It's something that doesn't have to happen and shouldn't.

 

You are right. It should NOT be happening with as much affluence as our country has. But, as long as we are moving further toward an oligarchy, it will continue and it will get worse. We need more regulation, not less. Who wants less regulation? Billionaire businessmen. So they can increase everybody's wealth? No. They serve *their own interests*.

 

There is nothing wrong with building wealth, but there is a type of wealth building that is downright immoral and brings countries to their knees. If this continues, this country will practically return to the "lord and serf" days. I have no desire to return to a feudal system, but that is exactly what this kind of wealth building produces.

 

Agreed. I would rather prevent a replay of the French Revolution. What caused it? We are ignoring history.