Question about attitudes to marriage

[momma2three]

Just curious - as a person raised in the Lutheran faith and having read the Bible a number of times - where does the Bible say that if a person is not legally married, s/he must remain a virgin until death?

 

I think it's hard to find this type of guidance in the Bible because when it was written, "respectable" women needed to be married for economic and social reasons. (That said, there were harlots who were treated with respect in the Bible.)

 

The only verse that seems to come close is the one that says that if a man lies with a woman, he's married to her. In my interpretation, that was to protect the woman.

 

Obviously when a married person has sex with someone outside the marriage, that is pretty clear cut.

 

:iagree:

 

I was wondering this, too. Historically, sex before marriage was a social issue, not a religious one... there was no birth control, and since the role of women was severely restricted, it was in society's best interest to make sure that a baby had a legal father. Thanks to birth control and DNA tests, that doesn't seem to be much of an issue any more.

 

Where, specifically, in the Bible does it say that sex before marriage isn't allowed?

[DawnM]

Because we believe that sex outside of marriage is part of the word fornication used in the Bible. If God intends, as I believe he does, for us to only have sex with one person, and if he says that should be in the bounds of marriage, it is wrong to have it outside of marriage.

 

Does the Lutheran church teach differently?

 

Dawn

 

Just curious - as a person raised in the Lutheran faith and having read the Bible a number of times - where does the Bible say that if a person is not legally married, s/he must remain a virgin until death?

 

I think it's hard to find this type of guidance in the Bible because when it was written, "respectable" women needed to be married for economic and social reasons. (That said, there were harlots who were treated with respect in the Bible.)

 

The only verse that seems to come close is the one that says that if a man lies with a woman, he's married to her. In my interpretation, that was to protect the woman.

 

Obviously when a married person has sex with someone outside the marriage, that is pretty clear cut.

[momma2three]

Where does it say that people are only supposed to have sex with one person? That REALLY confuses me. In the Bible there are many cases of second marriages or more (either concurrent, or after a spouse has died someone remarries). And I'm almost positive that most people who believe that people shouldn't have sex until marriage also believe that a 2nd marriage (after death or divorce of your spouse) is okay.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, this has just come up on several threads recently, and I understand the historical social reasons for it, but it doesn't make sense to me as coming directly from the Bible.

[mo2]

I haven't read everything, but I have to wonder: If a child is raised to think they need to wait until they are married to have s*x, might they think, "Hey, let's hurry up and get married so we can do it?" I would hate to see young adults rushing into marriage because their hormones are getting in the way of rational thinking.

 

For my own kids, I think the focus should be on waiting for the right *person,* not the right situation (i.e, marriage).

[ktgrok]

I had sex with my ex before we got married. We married because I was pregnant. I then got divorced years later, had some stupid encounters as rebellion, then met my now DH. We waited until we were sure we would be getting married, but not until marriage. Our thought was that we knew that babies happen when you have sex, and we were not going to risk a baby until we knew we'd be together forever. That is what I will teach my kids. That sex before marriage is a dangerous game....that you can NEVER prevent pregnancy 100 percent (two of my kids were concieved using a form of birth control), and it isn't fair to a child to risk that with someone you don't want as a partner for the rest of that child's life. God didn't say wait for marriage just to be mean, or a prude, it was very smart advice. I've planned a marriage while pregnant and it was NOT fun. Much better to do it the other way around.

 

sex within an engaged relationship bothers me less, for the reasons stated above, and because in biblical times that was pretty much a marriage right there.

[Trish]

I haven't read everything, but I have to wonder: If a child is raised to think they need to wait until they are married to have s*x, might they think, "Hey, let's hurry up and get married so we can do it?" I would hate to see young adults rushing into marriage because their hormones are getting in the way of rational thinking.

 

For my own kids, I think the focus should be on waiting for the right *person,* not the right situation (i.e, marriage).

 

That's exactly what people did two generations ago.

 

The major Christian denominations seem to be on the same page with this, although I don't know which specific page that is.

[Amy in NH]

I started early and had more partners than I would ever admit too... I had very lenient parents who gave me WAY too much freedom, and never taught me how important it is to respect my body, and I hung out with the wrong crowd. It was a bad combination.

 

I will tell my children, when they are older, about my past and try to convey to them the LARGE amount of stress, heartaches and problems that being active before marriage caused me SNIP.

 

:iagree: This was me, too. Although I would like them to wait until they are mature adults, and they know that, I can't imagine that they will wait until they are married. I think that the level of intimacy involved in knowing someone well enough that you decide to get married will probably involve a s@xual relationship. I'd really like them to at least wait for someone special with whom they have an intimate emotional relationship before they take it to the next step. But to say that it doesn't concern me isn't right, either.

 

For my own kids, I think the focus should be on waiting for the right *person,* not the right situation (i.e, marriage).

 

:iagree: Yes! This is it.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Amy in NH

[kitten18]

I did not wait. I don't regret not waiting for marriage, but I do regret some encounters.

 

I do not wait my children to wait until marrriage, but I'd like for them to make wise choices about when, where, with whom, and the circumstances under which they make intimacy choices.

:iagree:

[Scrub Jay]

I do not wait my children to wait until marrriage, but I'd like for them to make wise choices about when, where, with whom, and the circumstances under which they make intimacy choices.

 

:iagree:

[stripe]

I think it's interesting that the idea is that everyone gets married once, as well. Someone could have gotten married as a virgin, divorced or be widowed, and remarry as a sexually experienced person. The assumption is that we're all on our first marriage, and that subsequent marriages are a disaster or something....

 

I personally wouldn't be traumatized if my kids got divorced at some point. Happy? No, but, as long as it was an earnest effort with a halfway decent person, the idea that they gave it a shot is fair enough, as far as I am concerned. I don't find divorce scandalous or taboo. So I don't really feel it's smart to put off mariage forever to find the perfect, fabled marriage partner. Not that one should rush into marriage, but I have a friend who married her husband the day after she met him, and, today, ten years later, they are very happy together and have four kids. So I don't think one can't be happy, either.

 

I was under the impression that in some cultures, men liked to marry women they had already gotten pregnant, as a sign they were fertile. This is still the case with the King of Swaziland. ;) If anyone remembers my thread about it.

[StaceyinLA]

but sadly, none of my children waited until marriage to be sexually active. I talked and talked to them about my reasons for wanting them to wait, the Biblical reasons to wait, etc., but I guess they have to make their own mistakes.

 

Oldest dd (23) is getting married this month after dating her fiancé four years, and living with him this last year since he bought his (their) new house. She really was holding off on the living together, but I think he saw it as a natural progression before marriage. She struggled with it, but eventually caved.

 

Second dd (21) married her dh at 19. They had been friends for 6 years. They were active before, and have clearly been since; she's expecting baby #2 this December!! ;-p

 

Third dd (almost 20) has been with her bf off and on almost 5 years. She has gotten pg twice and had 2 early losses. Obviously they have been sexually active for quite a while. They are talking marriage, but idk. The relationship is such a mirror of what I had with their father (which was NOT healthy or good), that I hope she will see the light before she marries him. It's hard to keep my mouth shut, but it just makes her defend him that much more if I say anything.

 

DS (17) has recently started a relationship. The girl is 19. I know they are active, and I have talked with him about safety, since clearly talking to him about abstinence didn't work. I hate knowing this about my "baby," but I guess I'm not surprised.

 

Sometimes it makes me feel like I've failed, but I have done my best, and that's all I can do. They have to take responsibility for their actions now.

Edited October 1, 2012 by StaceyinLA

[stripe]

And you know, honestly, something that creeps me out is diseases. Did anyone else read the story in this month's New Yorker about gonorrhea and how efficiently it's evolving into a super-bug? :eek:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/01/121001fa_fact_groopman

 

So I think, whatever one believes, whatever one wants to transmit to one's children, Americans are far too reticent about communicating contraceptive information and information about disease prevention. It is just pathetic that half of pregnancies are unplanned. The New Yorker talks about people's attitudes towards sexuality and their use of various devices (the pill, condoms) and the spread of STDs.

[LisaKinVA]

So I think, whatever one believes, whatever one wants to transmit to one's children, Americans are far too reticent about communicating contraceptive information and information about disease prevention. It is just pathetic that half of pregnancies are unplanned. The New Yorker talks about people's attitudes towards sexuality and their use of various devices (the pill, condoms) and the spread of STDs.

 

Having worked with kids in the high school to college age range, their problem was not a lack of information. Most thought that simply using a cond0m would be 100% effective, or that "it wouldn't happen to them." That misguided notion that somehow they would miraculously escape the odds :tongue_smilie:. I grew up and lived in very progressive areas WRT s*x ed... there was absolutely zero lack of information presented.

 

In 100% of those I know who had unplanned pregnancies in high school and college, they used cond0ms. In the married couples I know with unplanned pregnancies, the vast majority was a BC failure of one type of another.

 

I'm not sure if the statistics bear this out, but if more kids are having s*x earlier, it stands to reason that the numbers of infections/pregnancies would also go up -- however the correlated percentage of # kids s*xually active to the # with disease/pregnancies could also remain constant (if that makes sense).

[8circles]

...I was raised to think of sexual sin (like doing anything at all before marriage) was the worst thing you could possibly do. I still have issues.

 

...

 

Now, as a Christian, it would be nice if my kids waited, but I'm not making any bets. I just don't think sexual sins are any worse than other sins. I want my kids to have a realistic view of sex. I do think it should be special. I want them to respect their bodies and the bodies of other people. I want them to choose wisely, not just whoever has the right equipment. I want them to be aware that even though every pill has been taken or everyone is wearing the right things, you can still make a baby, so you had better at least like your partner.

 

I honestly think too many Christians make virginity an idol, and we know what the Bible says about idols. It seems as though people focus more on the pure body than the pure heart. I'm raising my kids to be kind, compassionate, loving, caring, and forgiving people. That's what Jesus was about. I seriously doubt that having sex before marriage will ruin their Christian lives forever.

 

I totally agree with this. :iagree:

[Galatea]

I find it interesting that people talk about needing maturity before having premarital relationships, but don't have a problem with marrying young.

 

I remember reading that for people who wait until after 25 to marry, the divorce rate is 50% less. I'm not sure if that is in this report. I think it is. I'm reading through it again. If you are interested in the statistics behind cohabitation and marriage in the US currently (well, relatively, it's 2002), it is fascinating.

 

For myself, I got married at 19 (my husband was 21). I did not wait for marriage, though I did wait for him. We married much earlier than I would have liked, but it was either get married or spend 3 years separated because of the Army (as it was, we still spent our first year of marriage apart). I think getting married young is problematic in many ways, the biggest thing being that a person still has so much to learn about themselves and so much maturing to do. We have both changed A LOT as people in the 14 years we've been married.

 

I don't have any expectation that my daughter wait for marriage, though I would hope that she avoid most one-night-stand situations and immature relationships because I don't want her to be hurt.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Galatea

[Julie Smith]

And you know, honestly, something that creeps me out is diseases. Did anyone else read the story in this month's New Yorker about gonorrhea and how efficiently it's evolving into a super-bug? :eek:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/01/121001fa_fact_groopman

 

So I think, whatever one believes, whatever one wants to transmit to one's children, Americans are far too reticent about communicating contraceptive information and information about disease prevention. It is just pathetic that half of pregnancies are unplanned. The New Yorker talks about people's attitudes towards sexuality and their use of various devices (the pill, condoms) and the spread of STDs.

 

I must admit sexually spread diseases scare me. When my kids are older one of the many discusses around here will be on STDS. Lots of information to be shared.

 

Makes me think of the song, "She thinks his name was John".

[bobbeym]

Neither DH nor myself were Christians when we got together, and I very much regret not waiting until we were married. Our prior relationships created huge amounts of emotional baggage that 20 years later we still struggle to work past.

 

Our boys have been raised in a Christian household with very different views. We've discussed God's beliefs for their life very clearly and set our expectations for their behavior based upon them. No dating until they are prepared to be looking for their potential wife, no marriage unless they are positive she's the one God intends for them to marry, and no sex until a wedding band is on that young lady's hand.

 

Thankfully, my future DIL is a wonderful Christian young woman and I have no worries whatsoever about her and older DS waiting until marriage. If you even imply otherwise to them, DS gets offended. They're both 18 now, having met when they were 11.

 

Younger DS has such a negative view of sex from the junior high that I don't forsee any problems with him waiting either. His biggest problem is that he's jealous that he hasn't found his intended yet.

[goldberry]

Regarding the Biblical basis, the word "porneia", which is translated most often as "fornication" refers to any sexual activity outside the marital arrangement. Adultery would be included as a specific form of fornication, but also sex between unmarried persons would qualify.

 

In addition to the word meaning, that it applies to any sex outside of the marraige is evident by the scripture in 1 Corinthians 7:1-2, “it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities (porneia), let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.”

 

The word fornication is used often, including 1 Corinthians 6:9, which says that fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Note "fornicators", as in a person who CONTINUES in the behavior by regularly engaging, as opposed to someone who commits fornication and then repents or regrets.)

 

Disclaimer - I don't going around judging who is a "fornicator"...that is their business between them and God. But for those who asked for a scriptural explanation, there it is.

 

That said, although I do teach my DD that this is something that God requires of us and is for our benefit, I don't hold it up that she will be "ruined" by making a mistake. It's not the holy grail of Christianity.

Edited October 1, 2012 by coloradoperkins

[momma2three]

Regarding the Biblical basis, the word "porneia", which is translated most often as "fornication" refers to any sexual activity outside the marital arrangement. Adultery would be included as a specific form of fornication, but also sex between unmarried persons would qualify.

 

In addition to the word meaning, that it applies to any sex outside of the marraige is evident by the scripture in 1 Corinthians 7:1-2, “it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities (porneia), let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.â€

 

The word fornication is used often, including 1 Corinthians 6:9, which says that fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Note "fornicators", as in a person who CONTINUES in the behavior by regularly engaging, as opposed to someone who commits fornication and then repents or regrets.)

 

Disclaimer - I don't going around judging who is a "fornicator"...that is their business between them and God. But for those who asked for a scriptural explanation, there it is.

 

That said, although I do teach my DD that this is something that God requires of us and is for our benefit, I don't hold it up that she will be "ruined" by making a mistake. It's not the holy grail of Christianity.

 

Thank you for finally explaining this.

[SKL]

Because we believe that sex outside of marriage is part of the word fornication used in the Bible. If God intends, as I believe he does, for us to only have sex with one person, and if he says that should be in the bounds of marriage, it is wrong to have it outside of marriage.

 

Does the Lutheran church teach differently?

 

Dawn

 

No, the Lutheran church would agree with you, but they've never told me why (nor do I plan to ask publicly).

 

If God intended for humans to have sex with 1 person, that's news to me. You mean one person at a time? Because God built the nation of Israel from the children of four different women who had sex with one guy. As for serial spouses, this was encouraged. Note the book of Ruth (whose 2nd husband might have had more than one wife, I don't know) and the rule that if a man died, his brother was required to marry the woman (presumably even if he is already married) (this was still the rule in Jesus' time, as Jesus was questioned about who the woman would be married to in Heaven - and Jesus basically said, spirituality is not concerned with one man - one woman stuff). What about the story of all the virgins who were supposed to wait up (with plenty of oil in their lamps) for the bridegroom? I must say I never completely understood that parable. And was it Tamar who got justice after one of Jacob's sons had casual sex with her and hoped to avoid the results?

 

Fornication - I'm not sure exactly what that is. I view it as giving too much importance to sex to the point where you'll devalue more important things. This could happen within a marriage in my opinion, and it could be absent from a physical relationship between unmarried people. But that's just my opinion.

 

I think the Bible warnings are concerned with harming a marriage by engaging in extracurricular activities. If you aren't married (or betrothed), you still need to leave other people's spouses alone, and don't use your body to distract people from fulfilling their duties.

Edited October 1, 2012 by SKL

[SKL]

The word fornication is used often, including 1 Corinthians 6:9, which says that fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Note "fornicators", as in a person who CONTINUES in the behavior by regularly engaging, as opposed to someone who commits fornication and then repents or regrets.)

 

 

I wonder if this is a reference to the old-testament books where God's people are warned not to to "a-whoring" after other gods. There's a lot of use of sexual-oriented language used for straying to or dabbling in other religions.

[Jerico]

We waited and I want my children to do the same. This was for religious reasons primarily but I love not having to worry about sexual diseases (I actually had shingles in a sensitive place and the doctor told me it was herpes but I was able to confidently laugh him off) or an untimely pregnancy. We also have a wonderful time together if you know what I mean... very compatible ;)

[Joanne]

I wonder if this is a reference to the old-testament books where God's people are warned not to to "a-whoring" after other gods. There's a lot of use of sexual-oriented language used for straying to or dabbling in other religions.

 

The language of intimacy also took place when women were possessions, when pederasty was common, even expected, and when men commonly had sex with people (not just other women).

 

It was the Jewish people who began to change that culture by elevating women and nuclear families and develop a culture of exclusive sexuality for couples.

 

I'm not sure I can literally go with porneia in the way being defined since the OT and NT emerged from a culture of public baths and patriarchial times.

[Momof3littles]

I did not wait. I don't regret not waiting for marriage, but I do regret some encounters.

 

I do not wait my children to wait until marriage, but I'd like for them to make wise choices about when, where, with whom, and the circumstances under which they make intimacy choices.

:iagree:

[desertmum]

I have a boy and I don't know if he will wait until marriage -it will be his choice. What I DO want him to do is not to take sex as a casual thing and if he chooses to have sex for fun make sure the girl is on the same page so no-one gets hurt, AND the biggest thing to teach him is to protect himself from STD and unwanted pregnancies by using a condom.

[DawnM]

Well, I would disagree with what you have said in terms of being able to have sex with anyone outside of marriage.

 

As for plural marriages, I do believe this is abolished in the New Testament, so for me, that arguments using the Old Testament wouldn't hold up.

 

Dawn

 

No, the Lutheran church would agree with you, but they've never told me why (nor do I plan to ask publicly).

 

If God intended for humans to have sex with 1 person, that's news to me. You mean one person at a time? Because God built the nation of Israel from the children of four different women who had sex with one guy. As for serial spouses, this was encouraged. Note the book of Ruth (whose 2nd husband might have had more than one wife, I don't know) and the rule that if a man died, his brother was required to marry the woman (presumably even if he is already married) (this was still the rule in Jesus' time, as Jesus was questioned about who the woman would be married to in Heaven - and Jesus basically said, spirituality is not concerned with one man - one woman stuff). What about the story of all the virgins who were supposed to wait up (with plenty of oil in their lamps) for the bridegroom? I must say I never completely understood that parable. And was it Tamar who got justice after one of Jacob's sons had casual sex with her and hoped to avoid the results?

 

Fornication - I'm not sure exactly what that is. I view it as giving too much importance to sex to the point where you'll devalue more important things. This could happen within a marriage in my opinion, and it could be absent from a physical relationship between unmarried people. But that's just my opinion.

 

I think the Bible warnings are concerned with harming a marriage by engaging in extracurricular activities. If you aren't married (or betrothed), you still need to leave other people's spouses alone, and don't use your body to distract people from fulfilling their duties.

[MrsBasil]

.

Edited May 16, 2016 by MrsBasil

[LucyStoner]

Just something to think about...

 

When a man is married as a virgin, his divorce rate is 63 percent lower than a non-virgin. For women, it’s 76 percent lower.

 

 

I read somewhere that if the couple is a virgin to virgin marriage then the divorce rate is less than 1%. I can't remember, I will see if I can find the link.

 

Correlation or causation? Seriously, if you are opposed to premarital sex it stands to reason you are more likely to be opposed to divorce, right? Lack of divorce does not equal smooth sailing, happy marriage.

[SKL]

Well, I would disagree with what you have said in terms of being able to have sex with anyone outside of marriage.

 

As for plural marriages, I do believe this is abolished in the New Testament, so for me, that arguments using the Old Testament wouldn't hold up.

 

Dawn

 

I am not saying the bible allows or encourages "sex with anyone outside of marriage." I'm saying it doesn't really take a clear stand on that, partly because women needed to get married before they had a chance to even think about such things.

 

I think there are good reasons to wait.

[Dory]

I did not even come close to waiting for marriage. I was pretty active from very, very young. My one brother and two of my friends waited until marriage. I would love for my kids to have a marriage like any of theirs. I have many, many, many regrets about the way I've lived my life and I know that I approach things with my dh in certain ways from habits that were made with other men. Not exactly fair to him and it tends to be hard on a marriage.

[SKL]

Just something to think about...

 

When a man is married as a virgin, his divorce rate is 63 percent lower than a non-virgin. For women, it’s 76 percent lower.

 

 

I read somewhere that if the couple is a virgin to virgin marriage then the divorce rate is less than 1%. I can't remember, I will see if I can find the link.

 

My friend came from a society where people didn't touch each other before marriage and almost nobody got divorced. The punishment for leaving a marriage is so horrible that most women find it easier to withstand mental and physical abuse (from dh and his extended family), loss of identity, lack of financial rights, etc. Not exactly an example to uphold IMO.

[Crimson Wife]

DH and I have only ever been with each other, and while we weren't formally engaged, we had discussed getting married after graduation (we met at college). I wasn't as religious as I am now and at that time, I felt that s*x in a monogamous "courting" relationship was okay so long as the couple did subsequently marry. Now I do wish that we had waited for our wedding.

 

I would prefer my children wait until they are married, but if their only s*xual relationship is with their future spouse, that isn't really so bad considering the norms in today's society.

[LucyStoner]

We technically both had not had intercourse before marriage but it was not for lack of trying (sexual assault history made it physically impossible) and we did plenty of sexual exploration together before marriage. It would feel odd to say we were virgins IMO because sex is not limited to intercourse.

 

I will teach my kids to delay sexual activity until a serious relationship emerges. I am not gung ho on waiting until marriage because not everyone is cut out to marry very young (before 25 or 30.) I would much prefer that they are 20 and not 15 however and I will educate them on the emotional and health benefits of waiting.

[Bluegoat]

 

If God intended for humans to have sex with 1 person, that's news to me. You mean one person at a time? Because God built the nation of Israel from the children of four different women who had sex with one guy. As for serial spouses, this was encouraged. Note the book of Ruth (whose 2nd husband might have had more than one wife, I don't know) and the rule that if a man died, his brother was required to marry the woman (presumably even if he is already married) (this was still the rule in Jesus' time, as Jesus was questioned about who the woman would be married to in Heaven - and Jesus basically said, spirituality is not concerned with one man - one woman stuff). What about the story of all the virgins who were supposed to wait up (with plenty of oil in their lamps) for the bridegroom? I must say I never completely understood that parable. And was it Tamar who got justice after one of Jacob's sons had casual sex with her and hoped to avoid the results?

 

 

 

There has never been any teaching in orthodox Christianity that said widows or widowers cannot remarry. Paul suggests that those who can should consider celibacy after the death of a spouse, but it isn't a prohibition, and it has always been seen as something which can be a practical issue as well as about the individuals preferences.

 

In the OT of course polygamy was common. Generally this has been understood to be an allowance for people's weakness rather than an ideal, rather like divorce. What is looked to as normative is what is described in Genesis - that is, pre-fall. In sacramental churches that is quite explicit - they understand the couple to become one flesh in a substantial way. Sacraments, however, only appeared after the Church was established, which ties into why for Christians the pre-fall type of marriage is considered normative.

 

While many Protestant groups do not view marriage as a sacrament, much of the view of marriage is the same. In Lutheranism the understanding is very much the same without the sacramental language.

 

As far as God raising up nations or individuals to serve him out of all kinds of different situations, sure. That doesn't equate to saying they are telling us what we ought to do with regards to marriage. Lots of Biblical characters had serious flaws but were in some way doing God's work or their actions were used for his ends. We aren't meant to emulate their sexual issues/drunkenness/cowardice/murderousness or whatever other character deficits they possessed. It's a major OT theme that bad incidents and individuals are used for holy purposes.

[TranquilMind]

My parents lived together for almost a decade before they were married, DH and I lived together for years before we were married, and I will encourage my children to do the same.

 

You know, THIS is when I feel my age around here...;)

 

Laughing at the thought of my WWII era parents living together before marriage. Or my husband and myself.

 

Or encouraging my children to do so.

 

Ack! Shaking my cane from my rocker at "these young people today!"

 

:tongue_smilie:

[TranquilMind]

I have to admit that for me, I'm still struggling to even imagine my kids being old enough to have partners or spouses, although my 7yo daughter tells me frequently that she intends to get married (she wants to have ten babies, and has decided that the father of these ten babies might be more supportive if she marries him).

 

Good for your daughter! You know, my son always said he will marry early and have many babies also.

 

We shall see. I do hope he waits a decade, at least!

[ereks mom]

DH and I waited, and I believe that both of our parents did too. It is a major part of our religious beliefs, so I would be crushed if our children didn't.

 

My dh & I waited too, and our parents also waited, as did all of our siblings except one of mine. (Dh is the oldest of 4, and I am the oldest of 3.) Interesingly, the ONLY one who did NOT wait until marriage is the ONLY one of the bunch who has ever been divorced. That one is now on marriage #3.

 

ETA: And my dh and I, and our parents were all married before 23 years old and we're all still together with no divorces and happy marriages. (I'm saying this because I hate it when people talk about it being dumb to get married young. Any sweeping generalization like that is frustrating.)

 

My parents married when Mama was 15 and Daddy was 19; they had been married 42 years when he died in 2001. MIL was 19 and FIL was 21 when they got married, and they will celebrate their 53rd anniversary this week. Dh & I were both 19 when we married 32 years ago (1980).

[Bluegoat]

As far as my answer to the OP - I think it is a bad idea to have sex with someone you don't want to raise a child with. Of course it is possible to do it with someone you don't like, but it kind of stinks. And I don't think separated parents are the best deal for kids, even if the parents get along.

 

I think if you are in a position that you want to have sex with someone and are willing to make up a household to raise a child together, you should get married. If you haven't found someone like that, having sex is a gamble.

 

As far as engaged couples having sex, well, not the end of the world. I tend to think that part of this comes from weddings that become more important than the marriage - if people are waiting years to marry so they can have the culturally expected marriage, then having sex beforehand isn't a surprising thing. I don't really think that is an overall healthy approach to weddings though and would encourage my kids to by-pass that.

 

As far as my personal life, I've never been particularly good at putting things off.:blushing:

[marbel]

DH and I waited, and I believe that both of our parents did too. It is a major part of our religious beliefs, so I would be crushed if our children didn't.

 

ETA: And my dh and I, and our parents were all married before 23 years old and we're all still together with no divorces and happy marriages. (I'm saying this because I hate it when people talk about it being dumb to get married young. Any sweeping generalization like that is frustrating.)

 

I've known people who married young and had long successful marriages. It didn't work out that way for me, but I know it can work out. I'd love it it work out that way for my kids! But in general I think people in earlier generations were more mature at a younger age than people (in general) of my generation (late baby boomer) and more recent generations. In general, of course. ;)

[Laura Corin]

You know, THIS is when I feel my age around here...;)

 

Laughing at the thought of my WWII era parents living together before marriage. Or my husband and myself.

 

 

My parents were born in 1924 and 1930 respectively. They didn't marry until 1955. Both had had other sexual relationships before they married. They didn't live together before marriage, but I don't think we should assume that pre-marital sex began in the 1960s.

 

When my parents split up in around 1974, my father's new girlfriend moved in with him. In his circle, this was not unusual. Nor was the gay couple living together next door to us in the late 60s anything to be remarked upon.

 

Laura

[ktgrok]

As far as my answer to the OP - I think it is a bad idea to have sex with someone you don't want to raise a child with. Of course it is possible to do it with someone you don't like, but it kind of stinks. And I don't think separated parents are the best deal for kids, even if the parents get along.

 

I think if you are in a position that you want to have sex with someone and are willing to make up a household to raise a child together, you should get married. If you haven't found someone like that, having sex is a gamble.

 

 

 

EXACTLY!0

[6packofun]

I haven't read everything, but I have to wonder: If a child is raised to think they need to wait until they are married to have s*x, might they think, "Hey, let's hurry up and get married so we can do it?" I would hate to see young adults rushing into marriage because their hormones are getting in the way of rational thinking.

 

Yes, if the man/woman-child has an incredibly immature view of sex and is never taught the value of self-control or any of the other higher purposes of a marriage relationship. I can't imagine there are a ton of parents teaching, "WAIT til marriage! But I'm not going to give you ANY reasons WHY!" Any young "adult" rushing into marriage so that they can "do it" (tee hee, we can DO it!!) isn't ready for marriage in SO many ways. LOL

[Joyofsixreboot]

I had sex. I assume my kids will have sex. I do encourage them to wait, be in a trusting, loving, mature relationship and take precautions. Given my choice they would wait until past high school graduation. So far so good but I've only got 3 who are in the "dating" range. I suppose 14 yo is too but she is far to involved in her sports and acting it seems to do more than notice guys in passing.

[LucyStoner]

My parents were born in 1924 and 1930 respectively. They didn't marry until 1955. Both had had other sexual relationships before they married. They didn't live together before marriage, but I don't think we should assume that pre-marital sex began in the 1960s.

 

Absolutely. Read. Examples are all through literature. People were having sex before marriage. My grandfather was 29 when he married my grandmother. He'd had previous experience and my dad was a touch early but not preterm, IYKWIM.:tongue_smilie:

[Durriyyah]

There wasn't an option for didn't wait, then chose to wait later. :) I want my kids to wait until they are married, for religious reasons and I believe there are numerous benefits as well. Given my first daughter's dad (my ex) is not religious in the slightest, I can't be unrealistic thinking she will only have my values that I've attained in the last 5 years.

 

I really do think there needs to be more importance put on making smart choices and who you have sex with. I think the casual attitude about it all ("Let's have sex and see if we like each other later") can lead to unfortunate circumstances.

[LucyStoner]

 

My parents married when Mama was 15 and Daddy was 19; they had been married 42 years when he died in 2001. MIL was 19 and FIL was 21 when they got married, and they will celebrate their 53rd anniversary this week. Dh & I were both 19 when we married 32 years ago (1980).

 

I am not opposed to early marriage at all but things have changed and it is not especially practical for most these days. My husband and I were 21 and 22. We have been married 10 years. So like I said, I obviously am down with early marriage.

 

The statistics however show that divorce rates are higher for younger couples now and the economic reality is grim. In previous generations it was far more likely that a very young man could support a wife and possibly a baby or three. Today there are very few family wage jobs open to inexperienced young people. And culturally, it is harder to make a young marriage work if it is an anomaly and rare. We were the first to marry in our circle. Every.single.other.same.couple we know of IRL that married within a few years after us is now divorced. In our close circle of friends, marriage at 26-32 has been much more common and obviously it is too early to tell about their rate of divorce.

[annandatje]

Although I answered the poll (anonymously I hope), a person's private physically intimate life is considered absolutely no one else's business in our family culture.

 

With a few exceptions, it is not something any of our family members would comment on, question, or discuss. Likewise, our young adults are expected to be respectfully discreet about their private lives.

 

Each person ultimately makes their own decision about their intimate lives, and hopefully they will choose wisely. Any attempts to exert control over an adult child's private sexual life would be considered overstepping boundaries.

[Laura in STL]

DH and I have only ever been with each other, and while we weren't formally engaged, we had discussed getting married after graduation (we met at college). I wasn't as religious as I am now and at that time, I felt that s*x in a monogamous "courting" relationship was okay so long as the couple did subsequently marry. Now I do wish that we had waited for our wedding.

 

I would prefer my children wait until they are married, but if their only s*xual relationship is with their future spouse, that isn't really so bad considering the norms in today's society.

 

This is pretty much our experience with the exception that we dated in high school and were sure by graduation that we would get married eventually. We got married our senior year of college at 21 and have now been happily married for almost 18 years.

 

Ideally, I hope my dc wait for marriage, but I certainly hope they at least wait for their future spouse. This is a matter of the sanctity of marriage and of respect and love for your future spouse to me. Also, practically speaking, unplanned pregnancy and STDs are a huge concern. Condoms are not 100% effective against either.

[Element]

I don't really care about "marriage" per se. I hope they are adults and in a committed relationship with their significant others. They could have had a civil union or commitment ceremony, or maybe just a commitment made between their partner and themselves. I remember the exact moment I knew that dh and I were undoubtedly bonded forever, and it was long before our wedding. It was just a private moment we shared and we both knew. The rest was just paperwork and parties.

[Flowing Brook]

In a earlier post somebody asked what verse stated that premarital s3x was sin. Here is one verse. 1Co 6:18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.