s/o the health insurance thread...

[Mynyel]

I was thinking. The OP of that thread stated they paid $1600 a month for insurance. That is $19,200 a year. The deductible is $2000 a person max $7000 (I think is what was said) so if you were to pay premiums and deductibles it is $26200. A year. :eek: We barely make that in a year. Hats off those who pay it!

 

Now, barring cancer, transplants etc... How is having insurance even a help? My mom is diabetic (controlled with medication not insulin) and both my parents have high blood pressure and they don't pay $1600 in medications every month.

 

So for the average family how does this insurance help? Wouldn't it be better to save even half that in another account (not the medical account you can have set up by employers and such that is different) and then just use the funds as needed?

 

We are a family of 5. In the last year we have gone to the doctor 3 times and emergency room 3 times. If I totaled them up it cost us about $1500 for the medical treatments.

 

I looked into insurance for our family a while back. It would have cost us $500 a month and I don't know what the deductible was, I don't remember. So based off the last year we would have paid $6000 for the year and probably the $1500 for deductibles and such to come to $7500. Why would I want to pay $7500 when I can just pay $1500?

 

I guess they expect you to have the insurance "just in case" something happens in the future that requires quite a bit of treatment like cancer or other life threatening issue. Is that the gist of it?

 

Am I wrong in my thinking? I just don't get it. Can someone explain it to me in layman's terms? :)

[creekland]

We gave up on insurance years ago because we couldn't afford it. That's when it cost $600/month for our family. I shudder to think about what it would cost now.

 

However, since I don't want to gamble with the "what if something major happened" we opted to join a Christian Health Share program. Members share medical bills and we pay < $400 monthly for our whole family. It won't work for everyone since one has to be an active Christian (any denomination) and pre-existing things aren't covered nor are things like abortion, but it sure works for us.

 

We probably are paying more overall than we use (only three times we needed it over several years) akin to what you're talking about, but the peace of mind is worth it for us since we have an affordable alternative. These programs are also allowed under the new health care law, so we won't be fined/taxed for not having insurance nor have to buy it.

 

I wouldn't want one of us to have chest pains or a lump or anything similar and not be able to get it checked out for fear of the bill that would come along with it. It would take many years of saving our < $400 month to come up with enough to cover something like that.

[Mynyel]

It helps you get a doctor and get treatment. If you don't have insurance and don't have the $26,000 up front, they will turn you away.

 

I agree, it's absolutely ridiculous, but yeah, if you don't have insurance or a lot of cash up front, doctor's won't make appointments with you.

 

For what though? I have never had a doctor tell me I can't be seen if I didn't have money up front. I haven't ever been asked for money before seeing the doctor. They don't ask me what I make in a year or anything. I just had an appointment for dd last week, paid for it out of pocket. All they asked was if I had insurance. I told them no, it would be out of pocket. That was it end of story. Maybe that is the exception not the rule?

[Aunty Social]

.

[sunnylady303]

And then you have to go to the ER if something happens and no one will see you which further drives up health care costs. I worry about that a lot. I have a primary care doctor who will see me no matter what, but if I had to see a specialist I would be out of luck. The ER would be my only recourse. I wish we had health insurance. And this is totally a non-political statement - I don't care who fixes it - but someone needs to. Health care is a mess. I will leave it at that.

[Carrie12345]

I don't have the figures in front of me right now, but we had a 2 year period in which I was admitted to the hospital twice, ending with emergency surgery, I delivered a surprise baby, and then that baby was hospitalized twice in his first 4 months or so.

That's not including random ER, doctor, and dentist visits for 2 other adults and 4 other kids.

There's NO WAY we could have absorbed that many medical expenses back to back. They easily topped $250k, and I can't imagine leaving that kind of money in the kind of account that would need to be accessed quickly.

[elegantlion]

I think we all know well enough ...My blood pressure is never high unless I'm in a doctor's office or in threads like this, so nm, too much other stuff to do.

Edited September 6, 2012 by elegantlion

[PeacefulChaos]

Many hospitals now will do a sliding scale based on what you make. For us, the least we have been approved for is 55% off. (DH and I don't have insurance. The kids have Medicaid. Judge if you like - it isn't what we want, either. But it is better than them having nothing. :) )

ETA: I had to go than ER for a kidney stone in April. My bill with them was drastically reduced. The bills for the lithotripsy and urologist visits are annoying, but in the long run still much less than what we would pay for insurance.

Edited September 6, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[Shellers]

We pay $1,500 a month for health insurance. It's like having a second house payment that we can't afford.

 

I owe $1,000 to our local hospital, that's part of our deductible for routine lab work for my DD and my DH. I have to make monthly payments of $100 on that debt.

 

I also owe $1,600 or so to the dentist for what insurance didn't cover. I'm making $50 a month payments on that debt.

 

We rarely go to the doctor because we can't afford it.

[GoVanGogh]

Well, I am the wrong person to ask.

 

I had a seizure while pregnant, resulting in a premature baby and lots of health problems. He had five surgeries in the first years of his life. I had numerous complications after.

Our hospital bills with insurance would have bankrupt many families. Thankfully, we had money in savings plus we were able to neg with doctors and hospitals over bills.

Our bills were near million dollar range. I don't know what we would have done without insurance.

[scrappyhappymama]

Our insurance is priced similarly to the example you've given, when our contribution to a medical spending account is taken into consideration, except that our deductible is $5000.

 

I do revisit our insurance spending each year and try to see if there is a better option. It does feel pretty crazy, because we pay such high premiums and then since we have a high deductible, we end up paying for most of everything ourselves anyway.

 

Ideally, we would build up a nice savings in our MSA, and be able to go with an even higher deductible plan. But so far, we end up spending all of the money we've set aside, and then some, because of medical spending that is not even covered by our insurance (midwife, chiropractor).

 

I've thought about dropping the insurance altogether and socking away that $1k a month into an account of our own and "self-insuring" since it seems like what we are doing anyway. But, then we'd lose many of our tax advantages since my husband is self employed, and of course if something really BIG did happen, we'd be devastated financially. And of course, soon we'd be facing tax penalties for choosing this option as well.

 

I'm thinking about switching our plan to the $10k deductible because it would save us a few hundred a month in premiums. We haven't hit the $5k per person yet anyway, so we pay for most everything now and that would be the same. And if something BIG did happen, we'd have to make payment arrangements for a sudden $5k bill just as much as we would a sudden $10k one.

 

So to answer your question, yes the main reason we keep paying the insurance is for the catastrophic coverage. And also, with five boys, so far we've had at least one emergency visit per year, so the contracted rate with the insurance does help knock it down a bit. Years ago DH & I decided to go without insurance one year, thinking we were young and healthy. I ended up in the ER a couple of times with gall bladder attacks and it took us years to pay that off. So we're definitely gun shy about going without.

 

I was thinking. The OP of that thread stated they paid $1600 a month for insurance. That is $19,200 a year. The deductible is $2000 a person max $7000 (I think is what was said) so if you were to pay premiums and deductibles it is $26200. A year. :eek: We barely make that in a year. Hats off those who pay it!

 

Now, barring cancer, transplants etc... How is having insurance even a help? My mom is diabetic (controlled with medication not insulin) and both my parents have high blood pressure and they don't pay $1600 in medications every month.

 

So for the average family how does this insurance help? Wouldn't it be better to save even half that in another account (not the medical account you can have set up by employers and such that is different) and then just use the funds as needed?

 

We are a family of 5. In the last year we have gone to the doctor 3 times and emergency room 3 times. If I totaled them up it cost us about $1500 for the medical treatments.

 

I looked into insurance for our family a while back. It would have cost us $500 a month and I don't know what the deductible was, I don't remember. So based off the last year we would have paid $6000 for the year and probably the $1500 for deductibles and such to come to $7500. Why would I want to pay $7500 when I can just pay $1500?

 

I guess they expect you to have the insurance "just in case" something happens in the future that requires quite a bit of treatment like cancer or other life threatening issue. Is that the gist of it?

 

Am I wrong in my thinking? I just don't get it. Can someone explain it to me in layman's terms? :)

[coffeefreak]

It helps you get a doctor and get treatment. If you don't have insurance and don't have the $26,000 up front, they will turn you away.

 

I agree, it's absolutely ridiculous, but yeah, if you don't have insurance or a lot of cash up front, doctor's won't make appointments with you.

 

:iagree:

 

We pay around $350 a month through hubby's work. We are responsible for $25 copay for primary visits, and $50 copay for specialist visits. We have a $600 deductible per person, and after we meet that we have to pay 20% of every bill for another $600 (co-insurance). Our max family deductible is $1800. We are $111 away from meeting that this year. We're not even close to done on our family co-insurance. The copay just gets us in the door. Most Doctors no longer bill under a lump sum because insurance won't allow them to. Every x-ray, blood draw, and shot comes out of my pocket under my deductible. Even after I meet my deductible, I still have to pay copays. I'm out over $5000 in medical bills this year, and that doesn't include the drugs I buy from the pharmacy. But, Wendy is right. In New Mexico, if you don't have insurance you have to go to the ER. My Dr, who had been my Dr for 10 years, and would let me pay cash when we were out of work and had no insurance will no longer see me because she won't take my insurance. I offered to pay out of pocket and file on my own KNOWING I would only get paid pennies because she was now considered out of network. She refused. A friend of mine had no insurance 2 years ago, because her husband was out of work, and she was pregnant. She could not get on medicaid because she couldn't find a Dr who would see her to confirm the pregnancy because she had no insurance. I don't remember how she resolved it, but it was a nightmare! Last year, I called all over town to find a new Dr and the first question they asked was, "What is your insurance?" before they'd even tell me whether they were accepting new patients. If you don't have insurance, they'll tell you to sign up for their hospital's insurance. I have 3 bills right now from the same hospital that they cannot seem to get right. I have spent hours on the phone and computer to correct their 100$ of dollars in errors. It's turned into a racket, just like flood insurance.

 

That being said, we're looking to move for a number of reasons but a big one is because of the healthcare in our state. We pay so much in insurance for substandard healthcare. We are a family that has ongoing medical problems and I feel like I'm wasting my money here. Without health insurance, we would be destitute, but with it, I feel like I'm a pawn between the Drs and the Ins companies.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I don't have the figures in front of me right now, but we had a 2 year period in which I was admitted to the hospital twice, ending with emergency surgery, I delivered a surprise baby, and then that baby was hospitalized twice in his first 4 months or so.

That's not including random ER, doctor, and dentist visits for 2 other adults and 4 other kids.

There's NO WAY we could have absorbed that many medical expenses back to back. They easily topped $250k, and I can't imagine leaving that kind of money in the kind of account that would need to be accessed quickly.

 

:grouphug::iagree:I took care of many, many previously healthy people who racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills due to acute, sudden illnesses or injuries:(

[Garga]

I worked for a health insurance company for 10 years. You wouldn't believe how fast the bills can rack up. Health care is expensive. All it takes is one issue and you can be wiped out financially for the rest of your life.

 

It's stinks and I hate it. Someone needs to FIX it!

[Moxie]

We pay $1700/month. It sounds like a lot until you price an emergency appendectomy (which DH had a few years ago) or a broken bone or a baby, etc.... Going to the hospital is just very expensive.

 

My homeowners insurance is there in case there is a tornado, not for a broken light fixture. That is how I look at health insurance. The number one cause of bankrupcy in the US is medical debt. Health insurance is there for us in case we get cancer or need a heart device ($150K 8 years ago, thank you health insurance!!).

[scrapbabe]

Sure I'd have insurance if I could afford it. But the fact is that there are some of us stuck in the middle. We make "too much" to get medicaid or other subsidized help. We don't make enough to pay for insurance though either. We have such a high deductible that our out of pocket expenses are crazy. So we had to choose to make monthly payments on medical bills or pay for insurance. We simply couldn't afford both.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

When we got out of the Army and DH got his first contractor job, we could NOT afford to pay for the only insurance his employer offered. So, I was going to look into getting an HSA account, but the day AFTER we moved in to the area, before I had time to research and find a plan.... DS, who was only 1 at the time, got sick. He had a fever of 103 all night... DH was at work, with our only car, and I had to wait for him to get home (he worked night shift).

 

I didn't know the area and our internet wasn't hooked up yet, so I just drove around looking for pediatricians offices.... I walked into 3 or 4 offices, carrying my sick, crying, BURNING UP 1 year old and was turned away b/c we didn't have insurance, at every single office. I told them I had cash and could pay up front. They didn't care, turned us away.

 

I FINALLY walked into a place that would see him. This Dr. took anyone who came in, lots of medicaid patients- I was SO grateful to her!! DS had a double ear infection. (I still remember that day as being one of the most miserable days of my life.) I think the visit cost us a little over $100... after we got the HSA it was more like $75.

 

That whole process was such a shock after being in the military!!

 

I did end up getting an HSA plan for DS and DH, but they wouldn't insure me b/c I had had gestational diabetes (pre-existing condition). LUCKILY, a few months later, I got a spot at the local VA clinic. That held us over until DH got a government job 18 months later....

 

I really don't understand health insurance in this country. It BAFFLES me!! That time (without insurance) in our lives SUCKED. I was CONSTANTLY worried that we would get hurt/sick or that I would get pregnant. CONSTANTLY.

 

Now, we have insurance for federal govt. employees and it's awesome. We pay around $250 a month for the whole family. Less than $20 for vision and less than $50 for dental. We have no deductibles and minimal co-pays. No co-pays for well visits. No co-pay for 6 month dental cleanings. No referrals needed to see specialists, etc. I am 30 weeks pregnant and have had gestational diabetes since week 15, which means I see my OB every 4 weeks AND a maternal-fetal specialist for ultrasounds every 4 weeks..... do you know how much I have paid for this pregnancy??? NOTHING. Not. a. dime. I don't even have co-pays for my appointments. I will only have to pay $150 for my hospital admission, that's it. $150 for a high risk pregnancy.

 

I am SUPER, DUPER grateful for the insurance that we have. SUPER. But, at the same time, I remember that time of being uninsured and I see people around me struggle and it's JUST. NOT. FAIR. I really don't understand how some people, like us, can pay so little for top-notch care and so many others have to pay SO MUCH for care that is less than stellar. I just DON'T understand how that is legal. :confused: Surely there is a way to make it more fair???? I mean, I really just don't understand it....

[PeacefulChaos]

I agree about being stuck financially. Thankfully our kids do qualify for Medicaid, so I don't have to worry about medical bills for them - I never saw a bill for pink's month in the nicu, idk how much it would have cost us. Where we live, kids can qualify for some assistance, some with a copayment, up to a yearly income of 52,000 ish for a family of 5. It isn't an optimal situation - often when people talk about how the people on Medicaid and food stamps are lowlifes and a drain on the system, I duck my head (we don't volunteer this info to people) and feel bad. And I try to reassure myself that it's a short term thing and that we are making an effort and they aren't talking about people like us. But there is still a stigma, kwim?

It would be nice to be able to afford regular insurance. But with premiums at $800/mo, I'll take my chances for right now with the bills. We really don't have a choice, anyway. An 800/mo payment for a year would cost more than all of my medical bills including lithotripsy and ER because of the sliding scale thing that all the hospitals I've used have available.

I've never had any difficulty getting in to see someone because of insurance. Maybe it's common here or something, idk, but the hospitals are ready with the paperwork for all the financial screenings if you don't have insurance. They don't even blink an eye, and they give you good rates, too.

[lea1]

It helps you get a doctor and get treatment. If you don't have insurance and don't have the $26,000 up front, they will turn you away.

 

I agree, it's absolutely ridiculous, but yeah, if you don't have insurance or a lot of cash up front, doctor's won't make appointments with you.

 

There are more and more doctors electing to not take any insurance at all these days. My husband just opened a new family practice where he does not take any insurance, including Medicare and Medicaid. He is keeping his overhead as low as possible so he can charge decent prices for office visits and other services. He is just starting out so he is still ramping up on patients but, so far, so good.

[FaithManor]

There are more and more doctors electing to not take any insurance at all these days. My husband just opened a new family practice where he does not take any insurance, including Medicare and Medicaid. He is keeping his overhead as low as possible so he can charge decent prices for office visits and other services. He is just starting out so he is still ramping up on patients but, so far, so good.

 

 

Come to Michigan, oh please, oh please, oh please....it's sooooooooooooo hard to find a good doctor. I'd pay out of pocket for office calls if the rate was good and the doctor listened!! :001_smile:

 

Faith

[Mommyof4ks]

The problem with not having insurance is not the emergencies, because hospitals will treat those and worry about the money later. My dad was in ICU with a leaky appendix and no insurance last year, and he received excellent care. The hospital bills were cheaper than if they had had insurance. The problem is not being able to take care of routine stuff before it becomes a problem. If a person has not insurance, then docs want payment up front, and if a test costs $350 plus the doc visit, reading the results, and all of the medical stuff (gauze and what not) add up.

[bzymom]

Sure I'd have insurance if I could afford it. But the fact is that there are some of us stuck in the middle. We make "too much" to get medicaid or other subsidized help. We don't make enough to pay for insurance though either. We have such a high deductible that our out of pocket expenses are crazy. So we had to choose to make monthly payments on medical bills or pay for insurance. We simply couldn't afford both.

 

And this is my position now. I am not rich. Paying these premiums plus all the out of pocket will ruin us if it continues.

 

It almost feels like I have to choose which type of ruin I prefer: the type caused by the premiums and expenses, or the type caused by medical disasters.

 

We don't qualify for anything I have found to date. Our state offers a type of coverage for kids, but we have never met the criteria.

 

Sick of it. Sick of it. Sick of it.

[tabrizia]

Okay here is the basic reason we have health insurance. In a normal year we go to the doctor for well child visits, DH goes to his psych for his meds and any of us might go to the urgent care clinic once or twice for something like a sinus infection. We pay in more then is payed out normally.

 

This year in May DS fell out a window. He was taken on a helicopter to one of the top pediatric hospitals in the nation, which is fortunately only 30 minutes from our house. He was in PICU for 2 1/2 weeks, on the regular floor for another 5 days or so, then transferred to a children's rehab hospital for 3 1/2 more weeks (give or take). He also has a bunch of therapy and doctors visits now he is home again, and he will likely be adding in some medication at some point due to some issues. The bill from the first hospital in total was $250,000. That is not the full cost of everything just the bill from the first hospital. The bill from the rehab hospital and his current therapies is not that high, but all together probably adds another $100,000 to his total. I know very few people who have anywhere near that amount of money on hand to pay hospital bills. That amount would honestly bankrupt all but a very small minority of people. Our total out of pocket costs, other then our normal health care payments taken out of DH's paycheck were $6000, still a huge amount, but most people can at least figure out a way to deal with a 6k bill vs a 350k bill.

 

Yes we hope to never see a bill like that again, but the fact that we had the insurance meant that DS got everything he needed at the hospital, we don't need to debate if he really needs 6 therapy sessions a week or can we get by with maybe 3 every other week.

 

We pay the however much DH pays a month (I think it is around $300), plus have the $6,000 deductible (first $3,000 we pay before any coverage next 3,000 we are covered 90%, once we hit the 6,000 in total no more money from us that year), just in case something catastrophic happens, because you never know when it will happen, and I won't gamble with the chance that it could happen and we won't have healthcare coverage and have to figure out how to cover $350k worth of bills. And depending on what type of catastrophic event it is the $350k is a low number.

 

That being said I can totally see paying all health care expenses out of pocket depending on cost and having a catastrophic policy to cover weird out of the blue catastrophic events, such as a horrible accident, cancer, a heart attack, etc. After our experience though I would never go without at least a catastrophic policy. Yes your chance of xyz happening is low, but it is there, and that is what the insurance is for.

Edited September 7, 2012 by tabrizia

[SquirrellyMama]

It helps you get a doctor and get treatment. If you don't have insurance and don't have the $26,000 up front, they will turn you away.

 

I agree, it's absolutely ridiculous, but yeah, if you don't have insurance or a lot of cash up front, doctor's won't make appointments with you.

 

I find this interesting and I believe it but around here I know several doctors, dentists, chiropractors, etc... that will charge you less if you don't use insurance. They would rather not deal with it so it is in your favor to not to have it.

 

I'm guessing hospitals and other places would want the insurance. And if anything big comes up you are in trouble without it.

 

Kelly

[gingersmom]

I had an unplanned $100,000 surgery.

 

My daughter had an unplanned $50,000 surgery. Before she even went in the operating room the hospital wanted all the insurance info up front. Not sure what they would have done if we had no insurance (no surgery was not an option)

 

Even if I had been saving there is no chance I would have even come close to covering the cost of being uninsured. I would uninsured and homeless.

[kalanamak]

We pay $1700/month. It sounds like a lot until you price an emergency appendectomy (which DH had a few years ago) or a broken bone or a baby, etc.... Going to the hospital is just very expensive.

 

My homeowners insurance is there in case there is a tornado, not for a broken light fixture. That is how I look at health insurance. The number one cause of bankrupcy in the US is medical debt.

 

If you don't have equity there is only so much you have to lose, but if you have a house, retirement accounts, etc, you can lose everything you have worked and scrimped to save up.

[stripe]

It isn't an optimal situation - often when people talk about how the people on Medicaid and food stamps are lowlifes and a drain on the system, I duck my head (we don't volunteer this info to people) and feel bad. And I try to reassure myself that it's a short term thing and that we are making an effort and they aren't talking about people like us. But there is still a stigma, kwim?

 

Yet no one ever makes old people feel ashamed of having Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. And most of the payments under Medicaid go to longterm care for the elderly, not kids, and certainly not non-elderly adults. Lots of the elderly (including the widows of the employee) get decades of pensions, way more than they ever paid in. And no one makes companies feel ashamed for constantly hiring people for 35 (or 39) hours a week to avoid giving them benefits. It's horrible there's this stigma on the employees and their families, selectively, but no shame at all on the companies for paying people so little or not giving insurance.

[GoVanGogh]

Yes we hope to never see a bill like that again, but the fact that we had the insurance meant that DS got everything he needed at the hospital, we don't need to debate if he really needs 6 therapy sessions a week or can we get by with maybe 3 every other week.

 

...

 

That being said I can totally see paying all health care expenses out of pock depending on cost and having a catastrophic policy to cover weird out of the blue catastrophic events, such as a horrible accident, cancer, a heart attack, etc. After our experience though I would never go without at least a catastrophic policy. Yes your chance of xyz happening is low, but it is there, and that is what the insurance is for.

:grouphug: and :iagree:

I posted earlier about my son's birth/health issues.

Yes, those things are weird out of the blue type events, but they do happen. Having that peace of mind that the majority of our son's million $ medical bills would be covered was worth every dime we had paid in insurance premiums.

 

I would also say, if one chooses to go without insurance they better do all they can to lead a healthy life and be very proactive in staying on top of their health.

 

I had a relative go through a nightmare situation earlier this year when they didn't take care of their pneumonia and ended up in ICU for a month with $$$ medical bills. And a dear friend is currently in that situation -- very poor health, morbidly obese, relatively minor health issue spiraling out of control with no insurance. It is painful to watch. Guess what I am getting at is that going without insurance is a personal decision, but it does impact your family and friends, too. I feel so helpless and am horribly stressed for my friend. My heart breaks for her, but what to do? I can't hand them a blank check and make all their problems go away.

[tex-mex]

I worked for a health insurance company for 10 years. You wouldn't believe how fast the bills can rack up. Health care is expensive. All it takes is one issue and you can be wiped out financially for the rest of your life.

 

It's stinks and I hate it. Someone needs to FIX it!

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Son and I have a rare liver (genetic) disease. Our monthly meds for one person is $7500. We are often in and out of the doctor's for routine blood labs and more. We have an upcoming DEXA scan for my osteopenia and ds' osteoporosis (we have to be on a low protein/no dairy diet) this Fall, for example. I cannot imagine not having insurance.

[mom2scouts]

Sure I'd have insurance if I could afford it. But the fact is that there are some of us stuck in the middle. We make "too much" to get medicaid or other subsidized help. We don't make enough to pay for insurance though either. We have such a high deductible that our out of pocket expenses are crazy. So we had to choose to make monthly payments on medical bills or pay for insurance. We simply couldn't afford both.

 

:iagree:We lost our health insurance when my dh lost his job. He now has a much lower paying job without benefits. I just checked and our children are eligible for Medicaid, but dh and I make a little too much to qualify.

[Canadianmumof5]

Standard Canadian response to these types of threads; just want to give each of you a :grouphug:.

It makes my heart hurt every time I see threads like this. :(

[WishboneDawn]

Standard Canadian response to these types of threads; just want to give each of you a :grouphug:.

It makes my heart hurt every time I see threads like this. :(

:iagree:

 

It just seems so ridiculous to me that the situation in the US is somehow seen as reasonable.

[ktgrok]

yes, it is for "'just in case". And it doesn't have to be something rare like cancer. A car accident, ruptured appendix, etc can cause HUGE bills. Or many young people end up diagnosed with MS, which can cost tens of thousands a month for treatment. Yesterday I heard on NPR that treatment for Hep C can be $250,000. My ex husband, a healthy man in his 20's, caught a virus that went to his heart and had multiple hospitilizations, a pace maker, and an evaluation for a transplant. We ended up on foreclosure from all the bills, and that was WITH insurance. Now his heart is almost normal, but the time that it wasn't caused damage to his kidneys. Now he is on a waiting list for a kidney transplant and getting dialysis. Again, the bills would be unpayable without insurance. In fact, he probably couldn't even get a transplant without insurance.

 

My former coworker had a nodule on her thyroid that they suspected was cancer. But no one would do a biopsy and other testing without payment up front, and she had no insurance. So she had to wait, and had it been cancer that wait could have killed her.

 

My mom had lung cancer, same kind that killed her father. Because she had good insurance she was able to travel to Duke Medical center and have a special operation that was much more beneficial, and much easier on her, than what was available locally in Florida. Her follow ups have been numerous, and expensive without insurance.

 

One complicated pregnancy or baby in the NICU could devastate someone. Or, my friend has a 2 year old just diagnosed with a terminal brain disease, out of the blue. The wife of a man I know has breast cancer, and the medication she needs is 75 dollars PER pill.

 

All of these examples are people I know in real life. These kinds of things just are NOT that rare.

[PeacefulChaos]

:grouphug: and :iagree:

I posted earlier about my son's birth/health issues.

Yes, those things are weird out of the blue type events, but they do happen. Having that peace of mind that the majority of our son's million $ medical bills would be covered was worth every dime we had paid in insurance premiums.

 

I would also say, if one chooses to go without insurance they better do all they can to lead a healthy life and be very proactive in staying on top of their health.

I had a relative go through a nightmare situation earlier this year when they didn't take care of their pneumonia and ended up in ICU for a month with $$$ medical bills. And a dear friend is currently in that situation -- very poor health, morbidly obese, relatively minor health issue spiraling out of control with no insurance. It is painful to watch. Guess what I am getting at is that going without insurance is a personal decision, but it does impact your family and friends, too. I feel so helpless and am horribly stressed for my friend. My heart breaks for her, but what to do? I can't hand them a blank check and make all their problems go away.

But also remember that it isn't about choosing. There is no choice in the matter for most people.

[Just Kate]

If you don't have equity there is only so much you have to lose, but if you have a house, retirement accounts, etc, you can lose everything you have worked and scrimped to save up.

 

(Bolding mine) I just wanted to clarify that you can't lose money that is saved in a qualified retirement account (like an IRA or a company-sponsored 401(k) plan) through bankruptcy. This is one of the reasons that putting your savings in one of these accounts this is a smart move.

[Lady Florida.]

In an emergency situation they will treat you. But it's really about stabilizing the person and nothing more. Any ongoing treatment that is needed after? Nope, they won't without money.

 

 

This. Many people mistakenly believe ER will treat anyone who walks in and can't pay. Nope. Only if it's an emergency. I know someone whose son fell and cut his leg and should have had stitches, but ER sent him home. He wouldn't die without stitches, and they flat out told her since she didn't have the ability to pay, they wouldn't do anything.

[Mandy in TN]

Here is the catch with individual policies. Even if you can afford $1500+/ month for insurance, as soon as something goes wrong, the insurance company increases the amount and continues to increase the amount each time something happens until you can't afford it or, if they can find a way, they drop you. If you get new insurance, it will not cover the existing condition.

 

Insurance companies are a business and businesses need to make money. They are counting on having more money coming in than going out. If they are going to continually lose money on you, why would they want to cover you?

 

The whole health care/ health insurance thing sucks. When I worked for a large company and when xh worked for the govt, I had no clue.

Mandy

[Entropymama]

We gave up on insurance years ago because we couldn't afford it. That's when it cost $600/month for our family. I shudder to think about what it would cost now.

 

However, since I don't want to gamble with the "what if something major happened" we opted to join a Christian Health Share program. Members share medical bills and we pay < $400 monthly for our whole family. It won't work for everyone since one has to be an active Christian (any denomination) and pre-existing things aren't covered nor are things like abortion, but it sure works for us.

 

We probably are paying more overall than we use (only three times we needed it over several years) akin to what you're talking about, but the peace of mind is worth it for us since we have an affordable alternative. These programs are also allowed under the new health care law, so we won't be fined/taxed for not having insurance nor have to buy it.

 

I wouldn't want one of us to have chest pains or a lump or anything similar and not be able to get it checked out for fear of the bill that would come along with it. It would take many years of saving our < $400 month to come up with enough to cover something like that.

 

Check out samaritanministries.org. MUCH cheaper than conventional insurance for a lot of people.

[ereks mom]

Sure I'd have insurance if I could afford it. But the fact is that there are some of us stuck in the middle. We make "too much" to get medicaid or other subsidized help. We don't make enough to pay for insurance though either.

 

This is where we are too. EK is covered by Medicaid until she turns 19, but the rest of us have no insurance. We opened a Care Credit account just before ER had his wisdom teeth removed in July. The cost was $1900, and I am billed $60 or so per month. I also need dental work done (root canal) and that will be added to our Care Credit balance as well.

[4everHis]

:grouphug: and :iagree:

I posted earlier about my son's birth/health issues.

Yes, those things are weird out of the blue type events, but they do happen. Having that peace of mind that the majority of our son's million $ medical bills would be covered was worth every dime we had paid in insurance premiums.

 

I would also say, if one chooses to go without insurance they better do all they can to lead a healthy life and be very proactive in staying on top of their health.

 

I had a relative go through a nightmare situation earlier this year when they didn't take care of their pneumonia and ended up in ICU for a month with $$$ medical bills. And a dear friend is currently in that situation -- very poor health, morbidly obese, relatively minor health issue spiraling out of control with no insurance. It is painful to watch. Guess what I am getting at is that going without insurance is a personal decision, but it does impact your family and friends, too. I feel so helpless and am horribly stressed for my friend. My heart breaks for her, but what to do? I can't hand them a blank check and make all their problems go away.

 

I think you're missing the point, some people can't AFFORD insurance, it's not that they are 'choosing' not to have it. I totally agree with you that the consequences can be devastating but how do people come up with an 'extra' $1,500 - $1,900 a month??

[GoVanGogh]

But also remember that it isn't about choosing. There is no choice in the matter for most people.

I'm sorry. That was a poor choice of wording on my part. I was reflecting my sentence back on the OP that spun off this thread - would one decide not to have insurance and save up money for a medical emergency.

I do realize that many people did not choose to be without medical insurance.

[Halcyon]

My DH is self-employed and we pay $1200 a month for a very high deductible insurance ($2500 per person per year) whihc means we pay for a lot out of pocket. It's very frustrating. DH went to ER when something heavy cut open his skull; doc spent 5 minutes with him, two staples....$1600 dollars. Ridiculous. I am beyond frustrated and even sent away for information from Samaritan Ministries health sharing. Unfortunately, the extremely conservative tone of the newsletter was a huge problem for me. DH doesn't want to be supporting an organization that conservative---I LOVE the idea of it, and a couple of friends really like it, but I just don't know if I can pull the trigger, even if it means savings of $500 a month. I wish there was something comparable but non-dogmatic.

 

I also had to pay out of pocket for a colonoscopy---nobody bothered to inform me that certain parts of the procedure were not required, and I paid 1800.

 

Our mortgage is less than our health insurance premiums, and they seem to do us NO GOOD. :glare:

[elegantlion]

I think you're missing the point, some people can't AFFORD insurance, it's not that they are 'choosing' not to have it. I totally agree with you that the consequences can be devastating but how do people come up with an 'extra' $1,500 - $1,900 a month??

 

My dh's employer is apparently exempt from the requirement to provide insurance for all employees. At his rate of pay, we have no ability to pay for an individual policy. So our choice to NOT have insurance is kind of like our choice to NOT drive a Mercedes or BMW.