Church going ladies? Would this bother you?

[Marie131]

After many months of decision, we decided to try some new churches as there were some things happening at our regular church that we didn't like. So, we found a church where the kids really feel comfortable and enjoy, my dh has been enjoying the preaching, the music is great etc. We have been going there for most of the summer, but I have not been able to hear a whole service b/c our toddler is not comfortable in the nursery so I have been staying w/ him. Since this has been going on for some time and after weeks of going to this church I had not yet got to hear a sermon, we decide to just give up on bringing him to the nursery as he would be moving to a different class in September anyways. Well.....the sermon did not seem like a sermon at all. The pastor gave a lecture about how they have a kidz church program and that is where all kids are expected to be (unless they are fewer than 5 months old, then they are welcome in the service). :confused:

 

I didn't catch the rest of the service since at that point I took my toddler out, but apparently they have the service telecast into 3 other rooms. my dh wasn't sure where these rooms were, but to him it sounded like it was in rooms meant for nursing mothers and/or not otherwise suitable for toddlers.

 

So...I'm a little bothered by this. I feel like the first time I came to church I got reprimanded by breaking some unspoken rule that I did not know about. And now, I don't know what I am supposed to do w/ my toddler the next time we come to this church?

[Rebecca VA]

You probably need to start meeting people and getting to know how things work in the church. If you're just popping in for an hour or two on Sunday mornings, you're going to feel disconnected. Try to get connected on a deeper level before you give up on the church altogether.

[marbel]

My family has a personal bias against churches that force families to separate. We just wouldn't go to a church where children of any age are not welcome in the service. (We are happy to go to a church that has a nursery for families who would like to be in church without their kids.)

 

That said, if you like everything else about the church, maybe you should try again. Maybe that sermon was a one-off prompted by some problem and the pastor felt he had to address it. Your husband heard other sermons - what were they like? Could he take the toddler out so you could stay in church to hear a full service?

 

Then, I guess, figure out how everything fits together, and either adjust to their culture or move on again.

 

I'm sorry that finding a church can be so hard!

[Catwoman]

After many months of decision, we decided to try some new churches as there were some things happening at our regular church that we didn't like. So, we found a church where the kids really feel comfortable and enjoy, my dh has been enjoying the preaching, the music is great etc. We have been going there for most of the summer, but I have not been able to hear a whole service b/c our toddler is not comfortable in the nursery so I have been staying w/ him. Since this has been going on for some time and after weeks of going to this church I had not yet got to hear a sermon, we decide to just give up on bringing him to the nursery as he would be moving to a different class in September anyways. Well.....the sermon did not seem like a sermon at all. The pastor gave a lecture about how they have a kidz church program and that is where all kids are expected to be (unless they are fewer than 5 months old, then they are welcome in the service). :confused:

 

I didn't catch the rest of the service since at that point I took my toddler out, but apparently they have the service telecast into 3 other rooms. my dh wasn't sure where these rooms were, but to him it sounded like it was in rooms meant for nursing mothers and/or not otherwise suitable for toddlers.

 

So...I'm a little bothered by this. I feel like the first time I came to church I got reprimanded by breaking some unspoken rule that I did not know about. And now, I don't know what I am supposed to do w/ my toddler the next time we come to this church?

 

If you really like the church, call them and ask what you should do with your toddler if you don't feel comfortable with the kids' program.

 

If I was in that situation, I would not be at all pleased that my toddler absolutely had to be in the kids' program. It would be different if your child was being horribly disruptive, but if he was being well-behaved, I think you should be able to make the final decision about where he would be spending his time at church. But you have to know that I don't take kindly to anyone telling me what I have to do with my own child.

[HappyCrazyMama]

I would not go to a church where I was not allowed to keep my children with me if I so choose. Before we were Orthodox I actually avoided churches with children's church or other programs meant to keep them out of the main service (except regular nursery), now it's a moot point.:)

[bagel270]

See, I don't follow directions well. I would take all my kids in the service the next week with promises of ice cream for their best behavior.

[JenniferB]

Yes, I believe worship is for all ages together, communion with God and with each other, one big family of God.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

See, I don't follow directions well. I would take all my kids in the service the next week with promises of ice cream for their best behavior.

 

Wouldn't it be more sensible, respectful, and effective to take your children instead to a church that welcomes them?

[jelbe5]

My dd refused the nursery for quite some time when younger. So we just brought her with into service.

 

I believe you have to do what is right for your family.

 

If there are enough good things about the church, stay and take care of your toddler the way you and dh feel is appropriate. At some point your toddler will be comfortable going to the nursery, but I see no need to force the issue until everyone feels comfortable.

 

I would not worry about it unless someone actually came up to me to encouage me to put my child in the nursery. You and your dh might want to discuss how something like this is handled should it come up. A confident, prepared response will probably settle things quickly.

 

I have come to the conclusion that no church here on earth is going to be perfect or free from "issues" of one type or another. If the overall good outweighs the few irritating things, then perhaps that church is a good fit.

[athomemom]

This would bother me a great deal as well. When my boys were 10 & 11 we walked out of a church because they were not welcome to sit in on the worship service. It's the only time I've walked out of a church. I find it odd that families aren't welcome to worship together.

[PrincessMommy]

After many months of decision, we decided to try some new churches as there were some things happening at our regular church that we didn't like. So, we found a church where the kids really feel comfortable and enjoy, my dh has been enjoying the preaching, the music is great etc. We have been going there for most of the summer, but I have not been able to hear a whole service b/c our toddler is not comfortable in the nursery so I have been staying w/ him. Since this has been going on for some time and after weeks of going to this church I had not yet got to hear a sermon, we decide to just give up on bringing him to the nursery as he would be moving to a different class in September anyways. Well.....the sermon did not seem like a sermon at all. The pastor gave a lecture about how they have a kidz church program and that is where all kids are expected to be (unless they are fewer than 5 months old, then they are welcome in the service). :confused:

 

I didn't catch the rest of the service since at that point I took my toddler out, but apparently they have the service telecast into 3 other rooms. my dh wasn't sure where these rooms were, but to him it sounded like it was in rooms meant for nursing mothers and/or not otherwise suitable for toddlers.

 

So...I'm a little bothered by this. I feel like the first time I came to church I got reprimanded by breaking some unspoken rule that I did not know about. And now, I don't know what I am supposed to do w/ my toddler the next time we come to this church?

 

Yes, it would bother me and I definitely wouldn't feel welcome.

[SilverMoon]

.

Edited September 17, 2023 by SilverMoon

[celticmom]

See, I don't follow directions well. I would take all my kids in the service the next week with promises of ice cream for their best behavior.

 

:iagree:I might be tempted to borrow a few as well.

[besroma]

I would call and ask about the rooms where they telecast the sermon. Until you ask, you won't know for certain whether or not one is acceptable for toddlers. At our church, moms who are nursing and moms with toddlers can go in the same room. Dads can use the room too, but they stay out (or leave) when a mom needs to nurse.

 

We haven't used a nursery for 17 years, and it was most difficult for us when there was no "cry room." Having a room where we can take the little ones when they are noisy, yet we still get to hear the sermon, is such a blessing.

[Alice]

Yes, it would bother me. We have a nursery available for the whole service and a 2-5 yr old class available during the sermon but I’ve never heard anyone encourage parents to use it. Some people do, some people don’t. I have visited churches where they had a much stricter policy for kids not being in the service and I felt very unwelcome and would not have gone back.

 

For me it would be a deal-breaker.

 

That said, I might either talk to the pastor or someone else who would know. I try and give people the benefit of the doubt. Could it be that the children’s program is being underused? Could this have been more of a sermon to encourage people to use the programs available that just was done badly and came out sounding more unwelcoming than he meant? I’d look around and see what others are doing and talk to someone who has been there longer.

[catz]

that point I took my toddler out, but apparently they have the service telecast into 3 other rooms. my dh wasn't sure where these rooms were, but to him it sounded like it was in rooms meant for nursing mothers and/or not otherwise suitable for toddlers.

 

The nursing room (that does have the service telecast) at our church is pretty regularly used by parents with young children who for whatever reason won't or can't go in the nursery. I'd try that out.

 

However, I would be very annoyed by the tone. Young babies and toddlers are regularly seen in our services too. Most of them choose to sit in a spot that would allow for an easy escape. But I can't imagine anyone being reprimanded! Especially someone new.

Edited August 13, 2012 by kck

[magnificent_baby]

Yes, this would bother me a lot. If I had other choices in my area, I would be looking around for a new church. If not, I would stay but speak with the pastor or powers that be.

[justasque]

Well.....the sermon did not seem like a sermon at all. The pastor gave a lecture about how they have a kidz church program and that is where all kids are expected to be (unless they are fewer than 5 months old, then they are welcome in the service). :confused:

 

...And now, I don't know what I am supposed to do w/ my toddler the next time we come to this church?

 

Regardless of pro/con kids in church:

This was not handled with grace or kindness. At all.

By someone in leadership.

WWJD? Not that.

 

There would not be a next time for me.

[Ellie]

Yes, it would bother me, as well, although Mr. Ellie and I would have taken turns sitting out with the toddler.

[MrsMommy]

This would be a complete deal-breaker for me. Any church with that kind of mentality would in no way fit with our family's belief about children and families being in worship together. We'd be looking for a new church that shares those views.

[eschuetter]

So many have already said this... Church = family. I'm surprised that they would ask you to split up.

[Myeightkiddies]

Regardless of pro/con kids in church:

This was not handled with grace or kindness. At all.

By someone in leadership.

WWJD? Not that.

 

There would not be a next time for me.

 

:iagree:

[Garga]

Was the lecture truly directed at you?

 

Was your son being quiet or being a distraction?

 

Can your DH watch the toddler so you can hear a service?

 

Do they offer the sermon on CD or another way?

 

Find those crying/nursing rooms.

 

Go directly to the person who gave the lecture (was it the pastor) and ask him whatever questions you have. Perhaps this was directed at another issue entirely, and not you at all. Perhaps your toddler was louder than you think. Perhaps not.

 

Our opinions won't matter until you gather some more facts.

[Parrothead]

Yes, I believe worship is for all ages together, communion with God and with each other, one big family of God.

:iagree:I wouldn't like to attend a church/parish where children of all ages were not welcome during Mass/services.

[Rebel Yell]

I appreciate churches that have child care/childrens programs available for those who wish to use them.

 

Screaming babies & continually whiney toddlers would probably be happier somewhere else.

 

But I would absolutely not attend a church that did not allow my children of any age to be in the regular service with me. If they want to encourage the use of their programs, fine. But forbidding children in worship is unbiblical, and even if it was biblical, it is not the type of environment I want my children to be in.

[Dinsfamily]

I also would struggle with a church that did not welcome dc in service. I take full advantage of our children's ministry for children up to 6th grade, but it is not mandatory and there are several families who have children in service. I'm not sure if I'd leave the church over it, but I'd take it into consideration since it seems you are still in the decision process of whether to join this church or not.

[kpnick in nc]

My family has a personal bias against churches that force families to separate. We just wouldn't go to a church where children of any age are not welcome in the service. (We are happy to go to a church that has a nursery for families who would like to be in church without their kids.)

 

That said, if you like everything else about the church, maybe you should try again. Maybe that sermon was a one-off prompted by some problem and the pastor felt he had to address it. Your husband heard other sermons - what were they like? Could he take the toddler out so you could stay in church to hear a full service?

 

Then, I guess, figure out how everything fits together, and either adjust to their culture or move on again.

 

I'm sorry that finding a church can be so hard!

 

Yes, it would bother me, as well, although Mr. Ellie and I would have taken turns sitting out with the toddler.

 

:iagree: Is it possible for your husband to sit with the toddler one Sunday? That way you can have an entire worship service unencumbered to see what you think of the service apart from the policy on children. My DH would certainly want to know what I thought in such a situation. Then you could determine if this is something you want to make work.

 

Personally, I would shy away from such a church like many PP's have said.

 

Do there seem to be other families in the same boat - now or recently? I would seek out families with energetic toddlers, etc that you can speak openly about the policy to see how they have dealt with difficulty. I guess it is possible all other toddlers just grew up in this nursery with these policies, so it doesn't come up too often.

 

Since it is a new church, is it possible that you are not comfortable with leaving toddler in new nursery so you stay with your toddler upon any sign of discomfort? I'm not saying that I don't trust your evaluation; just throwing it out there. Or are the nursery workers asking you to stay? If the latter, I think that is unfair of the church to strongly encourage keeping children out of the service and not be willing to endure discomfort/separation anxiety issues.

 

Sorry I'm jumping around - lunch is ending on our first day - so I'm just trying to finish!

 

Bottom line: If you and your DH decide that the pros of this church outweigh the cons, this will eventually become a non-issue. I REALLY think your husband should take a turn so you can experience what he has.

[mommaduck]

I would not go to a church where I was not allowed to keep my children with me if I so choose. Before we were Orthodox I actually avoided churches with children's church or other programs meant to keep them out of the main service (except regular nursery), now it's a moot point.:)

:iagree:

[Kirch]

I don't mind churches that have well done classes for children and children's church, but I wouldn't stay at the church if I felt like they were not optional. Some kids don't do well in those environments, some parents aren't comfortable leaving their kids, some parents choose to worship as a family. I think the policy outlined in the OP sends the message that kids are a nuisance to be moved out of they way rather than precious gifts from God and valued members of the body of Christ.

 

ETA: Just the fact that this issue was the focus of the sermon would bother me. I know not everyone has the same experience/expectations for sermons, but I expect sermons to be teaching and explaining scripture, and I wouldn't stay at a church where that wasn't how the pastor preached. So it would just be confirmation that it wasn't the right place for us.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Kirch

[Parker Martin]

Was the lecture truly directed at you?

 

Was your son being quiet or being a distraction?

 

Can your DH watch the toddler so you can hear a service?

 

Do they offer the sermon on CD or another way?

 

Find those crying/nursing rooms.

 

Go directly to the person who gave the lecture (was it the pastor) and ask him whatever questions you have. Perhaps this was directed at another issue entirely, and not you at all. Perhaps your toddler was louder than you think. Perhaps not.

 

Our opinions won't matter until you gather some more facts.

 

This.

 

Additionally, I wouldn't automatically write off a church that encourages people to use the children's ministry rather than having them in the main church. It may be that the pastor is worried about the age appropriateness of certain topics he might address, say pornography or persecution in other countries.

[Harriet Vane]

If you really like the church, call them and ask what you should do with your toddler if you don't feel comfortable with the kids' program.

 

If I was in that situation, I would not be at all pleased that my toddler absolutely had to be in the kids' program. It would be different if your child was being horribly disruptive, but if he was being well-behaved, I think you should be able to make the final decision about where he would be spending his time at church. But you have to know that I don't take kindly to anyone telling me what I have to do with my own child.

 

:iagree:

[mrs.m]

Go directly to the person who gave the lecture (was it the pastor) and ask him whatever questions you have. Perhaps this was directed at another issue entirely, and not you at all. Perhaps your toddler was louder than you think. Perhaps not.

 

Our opinions won't matter until you gather some more facts.

 

:iagree:

[jennsmile]

As the mother of a 6 month old there is no way I would put him in nursery during a service, crazy talk.

 

I would be church shopping. I think children should grow up worshiping with the parents so they know what to expect when they get older. Of course we have both, main service with everyone then we break up into classes and there is a children's church program for 18 month up.

 

Go with your gut.

[Shannanlee]

I usually go to church were either they do not have nursery or it is optional. My two youngest go to nursery and children's church my older will go to junior and if not they don't care. You can even keep your babies with you during the service. My daughters are too disruptive for that though.

[Kathryn]

Regardless of pro/con kids in church:

This was not handled with grace or kindness. At all.

By someone in leadership.

WWJD? Not that.

 

There would not be a next time for me.

 

This would be a complete deal-breaker for me. Any church with that kind of mentality would in no way fit with our family's belief about children and families being in worship together. We'd be looking for a new church that shares those views.

 

So many have already said this... Church = family. I'm surprised that they would ask you to split up.

 

I appreciate churches that have child care/childrens programs available for those who wish to use them.

 

Screaming babies & continually whiney toddlers would probably be happier somewhere else.

 

But I would absolutely not attend a church that did not allow my children of any age to be in the regular service with me. If they want to encourage the use of their programs, fine. But forbidding children in worship is unbiblical, and even if it was biblical, it is not the type of environment I want my children to be in.

:iagree: our church has an optional nursery for under four and an optional children's chapel during the sermon for ages four to nine. I would not attend a church where separating children was mandatory.

[6wishes]

If you really like the church, call them and ask what you should do with your toddler if you don't feel comfortable with the kids' program.

 

If I was in that situation, I would not be at all pleased that my toddler absolutely had to be in the kids' program. It would be different if your child was being horribly disruptive, but if he was being well-behaved, I think you should be able to make the final decision about where he would be spending his time at church. But you have to know that I don't take kindly to anyone telling me what I have to do with my own child.

 

:iagree: especially with the last sentence!!

[Marie131]

Was the lecture truly directed at you?

No, it wasn't directed at me. This was a part of his "sermon".

 

Was your son being quiet or being a distraction?

He was snugglig quietly w/ me and sucking his thumb.

 

Can your DH watch the toddler so you can hear a service?

Yes he could. I usually just stay w/ the baby b/c he's a mama's boy but my dh could go out w/ him.

 

Do they offer the sermon on CD or another way?

I think they have it podcast on their website

 

 

My response is in blue. Another part of it that bothered me is that it didn't seem like a sermon. He also brought up people who complain about the music, people showing up late..etc..from the point that he begun until the time I left w/ my son I didn't see him open the Bible once. Granted, I didn't hear the whole message, I just don't see where he was going w/ it other than to make complaints. I also didn't like the way he brought up the whole children in the service part. He made it seem like children are bratty and nuisances who disturb other people.

 

I could just be overly sensitive, and in all honesty, I didn't hear the whole thing. But I didn't like what I did hear.

 

I also wanted to comment that I have no problem leaving my little guy in the nursery, but he makes it plainly clear that he is not comfortable there and I really don't blame him. When I have gone to stay w/ him in there, the room is unwelcoming and I found the volunteers to be a bit stand-off-ish. The nursery was always a friendly place in our old church, this one comes across as a bit unfriendly to me.

 

We are not commited to this church. It is the first one we have tried since looking for a new church, so I am not at all opposed to looking elsewhere. It's just that our older 2 kids really like the kids church program, but I guess there is no reason why we couldn't try a few more churches and always come back. All this business about kids not being welcome in church just doesn't sit right in my gut.

[MrsJewelsRae]

That would NOT sit well with me. Nobody tells me what to do with my kids, or where to put them. I do not agree with pastors pressuring parents to put their babies and young children in the nursery- especially off the pulpit. My kids go to Sunday school when they and we are ready, not when the sOmebody tells me to. All 3 of mine didn't start Sunday school until about 3 yrs old. We sit as family in church for the worship service and then there is a fellowship break, then 30 minute Sunday school, where each of the kids go to their classes. Our church is used to having babies and toddlers occasionally act up in service, one of the parents always takes the child out until they've comes down, if they're having a particularly rough day, one is the older folks will always comment to the parents "don't worry about it, that's the sound of the future"! :) We have a nursery but it's not attended, parents use it to each their own children. During special gospel services we do offer a preschool nursery for parents that are interested, but there's no pressure, everyone's knows its there, it's not announced publicly so as to make it always for those who chose not to make use of it. Ive seen a situation happen before at my old church where a new couple came in with their 6 month old baby, he made a small amount of noise, just the usual few squawks. The pastor addressed them from the pulpit that they have a nursery, it was so rude, they didn't know anyone and they were clearly extremely uncomfortable to not only be pointed out so that the whole church was looking at them, but basically asked to leave their baby with strangers, they never came back, not surprisingly.

 

If you like everything else about this church, I would address issue with the pastor. Make it clear that you don't intend to allow your child to disrupt an entire service (most parents don't just sit there with a screaming fussy baby through a whole service), but that you don't want to be told what to do with your child, and that a lot of parents could be turned off by that, but theyre too intimidated to speak up about it.

[MomatHWTK]

That would not be the church for me. My kids like going places where they get to do fun stuff too, but if the teaching isn't Biblically sound* for the kids and the adults it is not the right place for us. (ETA: I have no issue with churches providing child teaching and care services to those who wish to use them. But forced segregation is not acceptable to me personally.)

 

*http://ministry-to-children.com/bible-verses-about-children/

Edited August 13, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[lisamarie]

Before joining this board, I refused to attend a church that didn't have child care. After reading so many threads on sunday school and church, I am more inclined to refuse to attend a church that didn't welcome the entire family to the service.

 

If that is the official church stance, I would either ignore it or keep shopping.

 

DH and I attended a church a few weeks ago that separated the "kids" from the "adults" all the way through young professionals. My kids were one of 5 kids in the entire sanctuary at what would be considered a mega church for my area. DH wants to go back but I just can't stomach it. What ever happened to the entire family going to church together? Sitting together? Worshiping together? Otherwise, what's the point of church?

[merry gardens]

Yes, that would bother me.

[Calm37]

Well.....the sermon did not seem like a sermon at all. The pastor gave a lecture about how they have a kidz church program and that is where all kids are expected to be (unless they are fewer than 5 months old, then they are welcome in the service). :confused:

 

 

I've just been scanning through the posts and have to say that what I noticed is not the policy on child care. That is one issue. The issue I see is that the pastor feels comfortable using the sermon/preaching time to deal with leadership issues. So today it is you he is improperly addressing from the pulpit rather than meeting with you personally. But who will he abuse next week and the next. This certainly is not the first time it has happened. HUGE RED FLAG! Yes, we are dealing with this in our church right now! It is an ugly and hurtful thing to do and he is a bully.

[JenniferB]

Children are more than welcome in the Orthodox Church. The word "liturgy" means "work of the people," and we all do what we are able. Some of us can only manage to lay there.

 

Child Sleeping in the Divine Liturgy

 

The above is a link to a totally cute pic.

Edited August 13, 2012 by JenniferB

[Lizzie in Ma]

I would not go to a church where I was not allowed to keep my children with me if I so choose. Before we were Orthodox I actually avoided churches with children's church or other programs meant to keep them out of the main service (except regular nursery), now it's a moot point.:)

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Kathryn]

The only time children in the sanctuary are addressed from the pulpit in our church is when people are told that if they're bothered by the voices of children, they are free to find a new church.

[Heather in OK]

I would not go to a church where I was not allowed to keep my children with me if I so choose.

:iagree:

[Elizabeth in MN]

If a church doesn't welcome everyone to the service then I don't believe they welcome me.

[jhschool]

Why would you go to a church where

your own child is not allowed to worship with you?

 

I would keep looking until I found

a church where children were welcome.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Personally, I would :auto:, but if you really like it, I would check out the nursing mother's room. I have never been in a nursing mother's room w/o toddlers climbing all over the place.

[PrincessMommy]

The only time children in the sanctuary are addressed from the pulpit in our church is when people are told that if they're bothered by the voices of children, they are free to find a new church.

 

I wish you were kidding. That is SO sad. A famous Orthodox theologian once called the noise of children in church "Holy Noise". That's my kind of pulpit talk. ;)