Would you give $ to this student? Help me think through this, please

[Hoggirl]

We have friends who have four children. Oldest son is finishing up his freshman year in college and has been selected to do a study abroad in India. School credit not mission work. University will foot $4,000 of the $7,900 bill. We received an e-mail (written by the ds, but distributed through dad's e-mail) from their ds asking for financial contributions for the difference of $3,900. Their son does work a minimum wage, part-time job, but he doesn't earn that much since he has a rigorous (engineering) course load and just can't work that many hours and keep up his grades.

 

But here's the thing that's bothering me...

 

Parents told their ds when he started to college that they would not pay for his college education. This is because the husband's family did not pay for his college education. So this kid's dad feels like since no one paid for his education he isn't going to pay for his kids' educations either. He has said this to us - I am not speculating. I don't agree with this thought process, but, hey - it's their money, their kids, none of my business. From all appearances these folks could come up with the $3,900. Now, they may be in debt up to their eyeballs, but I really don't think so. They are huge winers/diners and travelers. The entire family took a Disney cruise vacation last spring break. Dad collects wine. We have been in their home and partaken of $200+ dollar bottles of wine (the are nice friends to have ;)).

But dad won't pay for this ds's (who is a very bright, wonderful child) college education. Okay. As I said, generally none of my business, BUT when they start asking their friends to foot a bill which I truly believe they could pay, it does become my business. I am trying to decide whether to contribute or not. It's not the kid's fault that dad/parents won't pay, and I kind of feel bad for him. On the other hand, it just seems, well, a bit much to ask all your friends to pay for part of your kid's education when you won't??? Maybe I don't know the WHOLE story, but I do know that the ds has $4,000, needs $3,900 more, and it must be the case that parents are paying.

 

What would you do? What are your thoughts about this?

[gardenmom5]

I would not contribute.

 

first - not super close friends, not family. I consider it tacky that this was even sent out as a solicitation for funds.

 

the boy isn't contributing $4,000 to going to India - the university is. He doesn't need to do a study abroad to become an engineer. so it's not like this will hold him back if he doens't go. his father doesn't care enough to cough up the money, and apparently the boy doesn't want to include this in his student loans - which he could do, but isn't.

[TranquilMind]

Hoggirl: But here's the thing that's bothering me...

 

Parents told their ds when he started to college that they would not pay for his college education. This is because the husband's family did not pay for his college education. So this kid's dad feels like since no one paid for his education he isn't going to pay for his kids' educations either. He has said this to us - I am not speculating.

 

I don't agree with this thought process, but, hey - it's their money, their kids, none of my business. From all appearances these folks could come up with the $3,900. Now, they may be in debt up to their eyeballs, but I really don't think so. They are huge winers/diners and travelers. The entire family took a Disney cruise vacation last spring break. Dad collects wine. We have been in their home and partaken of $200+ dollar bottles of wine (the are nice friends to have ;)).

 

But dad won't pay for this ds's (who is a very bright, wonderful child) college education. Okay. As I said, generally none of my business, BUT when they start asking their friends to foot a bill which I truly believe they could pay, it does become my business.

 

Yes, ma'am, it sure IS your business. I'd just tell Dad, "You know, we've considered what you have told us about not paying for your children's educational costs, like this one, and think you have some good points. I'm sure you don't want US usurping your position here by paying for your kid's educational trip instead of him paying for it so we are not going to overstep those boundaries. If it were my own kid, I'd probably pay educational trip costs, but that is your business."

 

Something like that. He can't have it both ways. What a guy!

[regentrude]

Bothers me big time.

Hitting on your friends to pay for your kids' bills is tacky (unless we are talking about a life threatening medical emergency that one family can not shoulder, in which case I would be more than happy to help).

I feel sorry for the son that his parents are not supportive. I would, however, not feel that it was my responsibility to me to pick up a tab that his parents refuse to pay.

If he is going for an engineering degree, he will very likely end up with a well paying job and should see if he can get a loan to finance his trip. But to beg from other people? Not cool.

 

I generally dislike "fundraising" where people ask strangers to pay for their children's activities.

[Wendi]

No. I wouldn't give him money. I would have loved to have my parents pay for college (they helped, but couldn't pay it all). I would have loved to have studied abroad! We can't always have/do everything we want. The student will either have to find out if he can make payments or take out a loan, or decide he can't do that, at least this year. Maybe he can start saving up and participate in something like that his senior year.

 

Wendi

[Tap]

I would not contribute.

 

If it was a missionary postion...maybe, but even with those, I am particular as to who I give money to. One major consideration, is what they are going to be doing while there.

 

For one's own education. no. Especially, as a luxury, ummmm big Nope.

 

But, if dad has other friends with lots of spare cash laying around...maybe others don't mind contributing. It could be common in his circle of friends and family.

 

In some cultures, many family members all contribute to pay for the eduction of the family. Cousins may help send second cousins or nieces/nephews to college. You may have just been part of a mass email sent to a bunch of people who will end up contributing.

 

I would just send back a kind email saying "Sorry, we can't contribute at this time, but wish you the greatest experience abroad!"

[Rebecca VA]

I find the dad's reasoning really weird and unsettling. How could a parent deny his child an educational opportunity if doing so won't hurt the family financially? What is he going to gain by begging other people for money? (Certainly not respect.) That poor boy is already doing as much as he can between his job and his college studies. Is the dad not even willing to loan his son a few thousand dollars?

 

I've never -- in my whole life -- done this, but I would be tempted to write the dad an anonymous letter blasting him for his poor decision. Since the letter would be anonymous, I'd really tell him what I thought. That way, I wouldn't have to risk losing the family's friendship, and it would give the dad a chance to mull over the situation in private.

[gingersmom]

No.

 

I couldn't imagine asking my parents friends for money for anything (except maybe girl scout cookies or something like that :001_smile:)

 

The whole situation is weird.

[ssavings]

Nope, I wouldn't contribute.

[Cinder]

I would not contribute.

 

first - not super close friends, not family. I consider it tacky that this was even sent out as a solicitation for funds.

 

the boy isn't contributing $4,000 to going to India - the university is. He doesn't need to do a study abroad to become an engineer. so it's not like this will hold him back if he doens't go. his father doesn't care enough to cough up the money, and apparently the boy doesn't want to include this in his student loans - which he could do, but isn't.

 

I feel sorry for the son that his parents are not supportive. I would, however, not feel that it was my responsibility to me to pick up a tab that his parents refuse to pay.

If he is going for an engineering degree, he will very likely end up with a well paying job and should see if he can get a loan to finance his trip. But to beg from other people? Not cool.

 

Agree with these. The parents sound rather selfish and deluded. What makes them think that others will support their ds when they won't? They must be thinking this way or the dad wouldn't have let his ds send out the request to all his email list. :confused:

[Trish]

Doesn't sound like a charity case. And those Disney Cruises are expensive! Also I don't see how India helps in his engineering training...

[Annie G]

No, I wouldn't.

[magnificent_baby]

Since the email was coming from the ds, I might contribute a very small amount. If the solicitation were coming from the parent, then no way.

 

It sounds like the ds is a hard worker, and his parent's financial situation/position is not his fault. I don't see a problem with rewarding or giving to a college kid that is in the process of working really hard for his future.

 

FWIW, we do not plan on paying for our children's educations either, for the same reasons as your friends.

[QuirkyKapers]

Since the email was coming from the ds, I might contribute a very small amount. If the solicitation were coming from the parent, then no way.

 

:iagree: Was it the dad's idea for the son to ask for funds from others or was it the son's?

[Liz CA]

Geez - super tacky! I like Tranquil's response.

"We would not want to interfere with the lesson you are teaching your children..."

Feel sorry for the kid too.

[Night Elf]

FWIW, we do not plan on paying for our children's educations either, for the same reasons as your friends.

 

:iagree: This is us too. However, I would never allow my child to solicit funds from family and friends to fund a trip abroad. That is a luxury that not everyone can afford and it sounds like this young man is in that category.

 

Do you even have to respond? I would just skip it altogether. If I had to respond, I'd would simply say you are sorry that you cannot contribute anything but you wish him well and good luck.

[KungFuPanda]

I'd forward any summer job leads to the kid.

[butterflymommy]

When I first read this I was horrified-- but perhaps the parents are trying to teach the son a lesson in self sufficiency. If this is the case-- what I don't understand is their condoning the son going begging for donations. Why doesn't the family formally loan him the money?

 

So many kids have pricey college educations handed to them on a platter, and they either study something worthless or blow off the opportunity so that they can party and socialize. When I went to college I didn't even know what the tuition was. It makes me cringe, now, just thinking about it...

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Well, I would give him some money, probably only $50 or so. Unless I didn't have it, and then I wouldn't feel bad. But if I did have a bit extra, I would give.

 

I would always contribute to world travel. I feel it is very important to see how the rest of the world lives and be exposed to other places and cultures. It can totally change a person and their perspective, to me, that is always worthwhile :)

 

I can understand where the dad is coming from. When you CAN provide your child with everything, you realize that it isn't always in their best interest to do so. They will grow up expecting the world, and everything in it, to be given to them on a silver platter. We are not paying for college either. We'll pay for homeschool and all his activities. In a few years, we'll pay for an awesome and rigorous private school. It's up to him after that. He can always join the service, or go to West Point/Naval Academy, just like his parents did. We will help with food and living expenses when we feel it necessary of course, but DS is growing up in a privileged lifestyle and we'll be teaching him that we won't be supporting that lifestyle into adulthood. That is his job. We worked hard and put in our time to give him a good foundation and a great jump start so that he can make it in this world. After that, we will enjoy the spoils of our hard work, not give it all away to kids who won't appreciate it.

 

If I was the dad, we would probably make him raise as much as he could, and then come up with the rest if he didn't make it, but I wouldn't tell him that in advance. I would also tell him to expect to do some type of work for the people who give money.

 

Soliciting for money is a humbling experience, imo, and sometimes, privileged kids need a bit of humbling.

So, a few years down the road, when yours are in college, would you solicit this family for funds? Would they contribute?

[Princess Peach]

I would not contribute. Assuming the parents are well off and could afford college and trips abroad, but choose to have their DS pay his own way because it builds character -- well, I'd guess they mean to have him work for it, not solicit their friends. If the DS cannot afford the trip, he should not go. That's a good lesson to learn young.

[Catwoman]

So basically, these parents are teaching their child to be financially responsible through online panhandling? :confused:

 

Yeah. That's teaching him good values. :glare:

[Alessandra]

Agree with these. The parents sound rather selfish and deluded. What makes them think that others will support their ds when they won't? They must be thinking this way or the dad wouldn't have let his ds send out the request to all his email list. :confused:

 

I would probably send the boy a small book about India and a kind note.

 

The entire process is beyond weird.

[RanchGirl]

I would not contribute or even reply.

 

I would think quite a bit less of this family for (a) not paying for this themselves when they are clearly able and (b) asking others to pay it for them.

[Cassy]

I would contribute something, say $50. This is quite a common practice amongst our friends and family (although they do contribute to the young person's education). I believe the view is that the young person is out on their own now, and for 'extras', like a foreign trip, they do their own fundraising. It always feels a little like providing a good wedding present when a young couple start out in their own home. I would try to dissociate my feelings about the family's attitude to money from my feelings of wanting to support the young person.

 

Cassy

[Harriet Vane]

Like the others, I am a little appalled at the parents' attitude and at the panhandling. I will say, though, that soliciting funds has gotten so commonplace that the son probably hasn't thought through all the layers of this.

 

I would probably offer to HIRE the son, not just give him money. I might even say something like, "I am uncomfortable with soliciting donations for something that is not an emergency or a mission. However, I actually really need help with [fill in whatever you want to hire him to do]. Would you be willing to put in some sweat equity to help fund the trip?"

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Also wanted to add, that he may not NEED to study in India to become an engineer.

 

But studying abroad is about SO MUCH more than what they are studying. You spend time in a foreign country, with people in another culture, you see that things and people aren't the same as they are at home. It helps you to become a global citizen. I believe it's beneficial for everyone if we have as many of our "kids" exposed to world travel as possible.

 

Even though my 2 week trip to France and Italy (in high school) was mostly about sightseeing and partying, it still changed my perspective about the World. I still think back to that trip regularly and I feel it has made me understand more about the world than I would understand had I never been abroad.

 

For us, it's not even optional. DS WILL travel abroad while he's with us. He WILL be exposed to the world around him. The private (Classical) school he'll be going to pays for ALL rising Seniors to go on a 21 day trip to Greece and Italy, where they follow and learn about the rise and fall of ancient civilizations.

 

I realize that not everyone can afford to give this gift to their children. But I have also never understood this whole, "Well, if I can't afford to travel abroad, then why should I help you?" mentality. Your kids can do the same thing if they wanted, and I'm sure you would be grateful to everyone who chipped in and made it possible for your child to have that awesome experience.

 

I would applaud his ambition and "go-get-em" attitude. At least he's not sitting on his butt whining, "I wish *I* could afford to go abroad, boo-hoo, poor me."

[lllll]

...

[Princess Peach]

I would contribute something, say $50. This is quite a common practice amongst our friends and family (although they do contribute to the young person's education). I believe the view is that the young person is out on their own now, and for 'extras', like a foreign trip, they do their own fundraising. It always feels a little like providing a good wedding present when a young couple start out in their own home. I would try to dissociate my feelings about the family's attitude to money from my feelings of wanting to support the young person.

 

Cassy

 

 

Really? This is common among your circle of friends and family? I have never heard of this practice. In my world, if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Or you use a credit card (which I wouldn't personally do).

[Miss Marple]

LOL! That's just over the top! I would not contribute via the e-mail. However, I have students that I have taught that I am close to that I would ask if they might need a loan in order to make this opportunity a reality. I would not give money unless it was something that I truly wanted to see the student complete and feel like I had a vested interest. I would also be open to offering additional work for pay if the student was so inclined and could swing the additional hours.

 

Kids are stuck with the parents they have and sometimes that works out in unfortunate ways (as in this kid's case). If he's a kid you really like and want to help, do so. But it is beyond weird to ask for friends to foot a kids college bills.

[catz]

The parents sound rather selfish and deluded. What makes them think that others will support their ds when they won't? They must be thinking this way or the dad wouldn't have let his ds send out the request to all his email list. :confused:

 

:iagree: If he was raising funds washing cars or something, sure I'd let him wash my car. A straight monetary contribution? No. I do think world travel is very important and it was life altering for me. However, I always paid my own way. I don't see why he can't apply for a student loan or something. $3000 isn't really all that much in the scope of the world for a kid that will potentially be an engineer.

[Catwoman]

Really? This is common among your circle of friends and family? I have never heard of this practice. In my world, if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Or you use a credit card (which I wouldn't personally do).

 

Same here.

 

And if my kid asked for "donations" for any reason, I would be absolutely mortified and embarrassed. We don't ask other people for money. Period.

[Rebecca VA]

What appalls me about this is that the dad doesn't have a family-oriented mentality. As in, "I will help out my son because he is part of the future of our family, and his needs are our family's responsibility." Family members helping each other out is the *norm* all over the world, all throughout history. Only in cases of extreme poverty or some emergency do non-family members tend to step in.

 

When that father is old and needs constant nursing or expensive medical care, I wonder if the son will be eager to help?

[Cassy]

Really? This is common among your circle of friends and family? I have never heard of this practice. In my world, if you can't afford it, you don't do it. Or you use a credit card (which I wouldn't personally do).

 

Yes, really. Most recently, we gave £50 to the son of one of DH's cousins towards a trip to South America. This probably most commonly happens among friends and family with whom there is a long tradition of mutual support and generosity in all kinds of material and non-material ways. When we posted off the cheque to DH's cousin's son it was with fond memories of all the favours and gifts bestowed on us by the boy's parents and grandparents. If I were in the OP's situation, I would simply feel fortunate to be in a position to be generous to someone who had the misfortune of having a parent with such questionable values. YMMV as they say.

 

Cassy

[*lifeoftheparty*]

So, a few years down the road, when yours are in college, would you solicit this family for funds? Would they contribute?

 

No, *I* would not solicit. *I* wouldn't need the money. But, DS could send out a letter to his friends and family offering to do odd jobs for them in exchange for money, or accepting donations, etc.

 

I could see his grandparents and great-grandparents giving donations. I could see aunts and uncles giving $20 here and there.

 

My SIL did this in order to raise funds for a missionary trip to Panama with Brio magazine. Some people gave her money to babysit, or be a Mother's helper. She baked pies and people paid her $10-$20 for them. Some people just gave her money b/c she's a good kid who is just trying to get out there and do something and they wanted to reward her.

 

No one, that I know of, was offended or spoke ill of her and her family. I guess if they did, they wouldn't be considered good friends, so who cares? The people who loved her and COULD help, did. Those who loved her and COULDN'T help her financially, offered prayers and went about their day. I doubt anyone that she sent her letter to was so jealous and mean spirited that they talked badly about her, or looked down upon her for doing so.

 

Maybe OP should start refusing to partake in those $200 bottles of wine, and anything else offered to them, that makes those people "good friends to have"; seeing as how they are unable to reciprocate any generosity and/or good will.

[Catwoman]

I realize that not everyone can afford to give this gift to their children. But I have also never understood this whole, "Well, if I can't afford to travel abroad, then why should I help you?" mentality. Your kids can do the same thing if they wanted, and I'm sure you would be grateful to everyone who chipped in and made it possible for your child to have that awesome experience.

 

In this case, though, the parents absolutely can afford to pay for the trip; they just refuse to do it.

 

And I have to disagree with you about one thing -- as I stated in my last post, if my ds ever requested "donations" from friends and family so he could go on a trip, I would be mortified, and every dime he collected would be going straight back to the senders. We. Do. Not. Beg. For. Money. It is horrifically tacky -- if this was some sort of tragic medical emergency and the family needed quick cash, it would be different, but this is for an optional overseas trip that the parents can afford to pay for.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Catwoman

[Tammyla]

I would delet the e-mail and would not contribute under those circumstances.

[besroma]

I feel sorry for the son that his parents are not supportive. I would, however, not feel that it was my responsibility to me to pick up a tab that his parents refuse to pay.

If he is going for an engineering degree, he will very likely end up with a well paying job and should see if he can get a loan to finance his trip. But to beg from other people? Not cool.

 

I generally dislike "fundraising" where people ask strangers to pay for their children's activities.

 

:iagree:

[FaithManor]

Bothers me big time.

Hitting on your friends to pay for your kids' bills is tacky (unless we are talking about a life threatening medical emergency that one family can not shoulder, in which case I would be more than happy to help).

I feel sorry for the son that his parents are not supportive. I would, however, not feel that it was my responsibility to me to pick up a tab that his parents refuse to pay.

If he is going for an engineering degree, he will very likely end up with a well paying job and should see if he can get a loan to finance his trip. But to beg from other people? Not cool.

 

I generally dislike "fundraising" where people ask strangers to pay for their children's activities.

 

 

100% agree with Regentrude! I would not help foot this kind of bill. Frankly, the only educational program for a child not my own that I've ever contributed to was for orphans in another country and my own niece when we had a 6 month guardianship of her.

 

This is not a life or death, necessity. This kid will be well employed without going to India and his parents are very UNCOUTH if they knew their son was going to hit up friends for funds and didn't say "NO WAY" to him. I recognize that he is an adult, so they couldn't technically stop him from issuing a "support" letter. However, they could call their friends and say, "Son wants to take a trip that we don't think is necessary enough to help him pay for and now he's begging for money from our friends. We can't stop him, but I wanted you to know that this is not our idea and we told him we DID NOT want him to do this." I suppose it's statistically possible they did not know he would ask his parents friends for money, but I also find it highly improbable that they were totally out of the loop.

 

At any rate, it's tacky at the least, and offensive at worst and either way, would not be receiving a donation from me.

 

If they had a $300,000.00 medical bill from a life saving procedure, you can bet I'd make a donation to something like that. This is not anywhere near that category of "good causes to donate to".

 

Faith

[catz]

 

My SIL did this in order to raise funds for a missionary trip to Panama with Brio magazine. Some people gave her money to babysit, or be a Mother's helper. She baked pies and people paid her $10-$20 for them. Some people just gave her money b/c she's a good kid who is just trying to get out there and do something and they wanted to reward her.

 

To me there is a world of difference between fund raising and offering to bake or babysit for funds and putting the word out about that and just asking for donations. Especially from an able bodied young man from a well to do family. I often will just make a donation if someone is fund raising for a trip or other cause. My son's music school is fund raising for a trip right now to Europe. They're selling plants and have posted lists of babysitters available for hire. I have absolutely no problem with that. I ordered all my plants there this year.

 

This young man has many options. He could lighten his class load and graduate in 5 or 6 years to be able work a job. He could carry some debt. He could work 2 jobs over the summer.

[Princess Peach]

I realize that not everyone can afford to give this gift to their children. But I have also never understood this whole, "Well, if I can't afford to travel abroad, then why should I help you?" mentality. Your kids can do the same thing if they wanted, and I'm sure you would be grateful to everyone who chipped in and made it possible for your child to have that awesome experience.

 

That is not my mentality, at all. I don't begrudge other people using their own money to do something they want to do. It doesn't have anything to do with what I can afford. I just think people should work for their own luxuries. If the kid wants to take a trip, fabulous. Work and save the money. Can't save enough? Don't go.

 

I would like to take a trip to Europe with the kids. We can't afford it right now. In a few years, if everything goes according to plan, we will be able to do it. We'll put it off until we can. We won't send emails out to wealthy relatives asking for donations.

 

I would applaud his ambition and "go-get-em" attitude. At least he's not sitting on his butt whining, "I wish *I* could afford to go abroad, boo-hoo, poor me."

 

Learning to provide for yourself and then being content with what you have prevents this attitude.

[PrairieSong]

This is a weird scenario. The dad feels he should teach his son to be self-sufficient by not paying for his college education, but it is okay for him to take handouts from other people??? I don't get it.

 

Traveling abroad is absolutely worth it, but I do not understand the mentality here. I probably would not contribute.

[Catwoman]

Yes, really. Most recently, we gave £50 to the son of one of DH's cousins towards a trip to South America. This probably most commonly happens among friends and family with whom there is a long tradition of mutual support and generosity in all kinds of material and non-material ways. When we posted off the cheque to DH's cousin's son it was with fond memories of all the favours and gifts bestowed on us by the boy's parents and grandparents.

 

I think it's different if it's the way your family has always done things and that it's pretty much a reciprocal arrangement, but my assumption is that your family members probably aren't soliciting donations from their friends' parents or other acquaintances, which seems to be what's happening in this particular case.

 

It just seems to me like your situation is a matter of a loving family supporting and helping each other, and the OP's situation is a wealthy family trying to weasel other people into paying for a trip they could afford on their own. I think the situations are entirely different.

[PrairieSong]

Relatives of ours were raising money for their son to go to NYC with his choir to sing at some special function. They did work to raise money, but also sent out letters to us, to everyone they could think of, even doctors, orthodontists, etc. I thought it was kind of tacky.

[QueenCat]

No way.... not under those circumstances.

[Cassy]

I think it's different if it's the way your family has always done things and that it's pretty much a reciprocal arrangement, but my assumption is that your family members probably aren't soliciting donations from their friends' parents or other acquaintances, which seems to be what's happening in this particular case.

 

It just seems to me like your situation is a matter of a loving family supporting and helping each other, and the OP's situation is a wealthy family trying to weasel other people into paying for a trip they could afford on their own. I think the situations are entirely different.

 

Maybe, but hey, even with reciprocity, someone's got to start somewhere ... :001_smile:.

 

Cassy

[J-rap]

No, I would not contribute. There is too much to say beyond that, to even know where to begin. It's just weird!

[RoundAbout]

This is so tacky and weird.

 

1. The family can afford it.

2. He's asking for a handout, not work.

3. Travel abroad is an extra.

 

If the kid was asking for work and I had some jobs I needed done around the house I might hire him regardless of the family's circumstance. However the idea of asking for money in anything other than an emergency situation and only from close family is absolutely alien to me.

[katilac]

I don't respond to those types of solicitations. It has nothing to do with how much the parents do or don't support them.

 

I would happily support a reasonably priced fundraiser, like a car wash.

[kitten18]

Agree with these. The parents sound rather selfish and deluded. What makes them think that others will support their ds when they won't? They must be thinking this way or the dad wouldn't have let his ds send out the request to all his email list. :confused:

:iagree:

 

 

-The parents *can* help their kid.

-They *won't* help their kid.

-But they think *you* should help their kid.

 

:001_huh: WEIRD :001_huh: