Aw man, and it was all going so well until...

[Heather in Neverland]

...They mentioned To Train Up a Child. :glare:

 

New family here, they seemed nice, similar theological beliefs, etc.

 

So we invited them over for dinner. Everything was going so well until they recommended that book in a list of 3 of their favorites.

 

Well, I'm not well-known for my ability to pass the bean dip, not when it comes to that book. It got a little ugly. They left.

 

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

...They mentioned To Train Up a Child. :glare:

 

New family here, they seemed nice, similar theological beliefs, etc.

 

So we invited them over for dinner. Everything was going so well until they recommended that book in a list of 3 of their favorites.

 

Well, I'm not well-known for my ability to pass the bean dip, not when it comes to that book. It got a little ugly. They left.

 

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

Can I borrow you? I need to not pass the bean dip to a few people!

 

Sorry it's not a possible friendship.

[*********]

...They mentioned To Train Up a Child. :glare:

 

New family here, they seemed nice, similar theological beliefs, etc.

 

So we invited them over for dinner. Everything was going so well until they recommended that book in a list of 3 of their favorites.

 

Well, I'm not well-known for my ability to pass the bean dip, not when it comes to that book. It got a little ugly. They left.

 

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

Well that's... unfortunate.

 

I had a girlfriend mention the book at a mom's night out recently. Along with CTBHHM. I was so relieved when she said she hadn't cared for them. Whew. She's a sweet lady, and our boys enjoy one another. I would've been crushed to find she agreed with them.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

For some things, it's impossible to keep quiet.

[In the Rain]

Ugh!

[linders]

Sticking up for your values on such a critical subject is way more important than "making nice."

 

Good for you!

Edited March 3, 2012 by linders

[gardenmom5]

Sticking up for your values on such a criticical subject is way more important than "making nice."

 

Good for you!

:iagree:

[clarkacademy]

Well that's... unfortunate.

 

I had a girlfriend mention the book at a mom's night out recently. Along with CTBHHM. I was so relieved when she said she hadn't cared for them. Whew. She's a sweet lady, and our boys enjoy one another. I would've been crushed to find she agreed with them.

 

What is that?

[*********]

What is that?

 

CTBHHM stands for Created To Be His Help Meet, another book by the Pearls (the authors of To Train Up A Child).

[Jen500]

At least you didn't have more dinners before it came up. Sorry for your disappointment though.

[J-rap]

What is the premise of the book? I think a friend gave it to me once but I never read it.

[melissel]

Sticking up for your values on such a criticical subject is way more important than "making nice."

 

Good for you!

 

:iagree:

[Teachin'Mine]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out, but good for you for speaking up. Those poor kids.

[Heatherwith4]

You did the right thing!

[FO4UR]

Well...we can hope and pray that something you said will cause them to question the "infallibility" of the Pearls (:glare:)...and hopefully she comes back to you to mull those questions over. Even though it got ugly...there is a certain level of respect given to those who can speak truth in love.

 

 

:grouphug:

[AuntieM]

That is so disappointing!

 

I had a similar experience, first half, anyway. A couple we were getting to know and do really like came up with that title in the midst of conversation. I almost lost the ability to speak, I was so surprised to hear it from this particular couple. Anyway, I just slid the conversation in another direction since my dh wasn't there to engage the father.

 

I'm sorry it ended ugly, Heather. But who knows how God will use the confrontation? Perhaps your points will nag at their hearts and they will examine the Pearls' teachings more closely. Six months from now they may be your best friends. One can hope, right?

[redsquirrel]

I am sorry. But, it is prob better it happened sooner rather than later. Can you imagine if your kids saw that?

 

You did the right thing for your family. That is a deal breaker if I ever heard of one.

[Heather in Neverland]

Thanks ladies. I need that perspective... Right now they think that I am flawed in my thinking... Unbiblical and what-not. But I would like to think that maybe they'll come around?

[MariannNOVA]

I totally agree with what you did.

 

I also agree that sooner is better is later

 

Ask me how I know that!:glare:

[cin]

Now see, I don't know if I would let someone's favorite book kill a friendship. I'm not saying I agree with the Pearl's thinking. But I have friends who use some of their things, I have friends who co-sleep and friends who put their kids in their own bed, in their own room and let them cry it out. I have friends who chose bottle over breast and friends who breast feed until their kids were 3 years old, plus. We all have different philosophies of rearing our children. But we focus on what we share; a strong desire to have manageable children which grow to be successful adults, exhaustion, the 'I am going to wring their necks' syndrome, and the need for coffee times. Sometimes at the drop of a hat.

 

I am also a devout Christian, and I have home school friends that home school solely because of their school district. And we just overlook the things we don't agree with. She's even listen as I complained about not being able to find a good Bible Curriculum, and commented with the generic response of 'Yep, finding a curriculum that meets all your needs is difficult. After which I apologized. She said not to worry. It IS difficult to find just the right curriculum for ANY subject. We just focus on our common ground, and ignore our differences.

 

Just my humble opinion. I hope I don't offend anyone. This was NOT meant to be offensive.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Now see, I don't know if I would let someone's favorite book kill a friendship. I'm not saying I agree with the Pearl's thinking. But I have friends who use some of their things, I have friends who co-sleep and friends who put their kids in their own bed, in their own room and let them cry it out. I have friends who chose bottle over breast and friends who breast feed until their kids were 3 years old, plus. We all have different philosophies of rearing our children. But we focus on what we share; a strong desire to have manageable children which grow to be successful adults, exhaustion, the 'I am going to wring their necks' syndrome, and the need for coffee times. Sometimes at the drop of a hat.

 

I am also a devout Christian, and I have home school friends that home school solely because of their school district. And we just overlook the things we don't agree with. She's even listen as I complained about not being able to find a good Bible Curriculum, and commented with the generic response of 'Yep, finding a curriculum that meets all your needs is difficult. After which I apologized. She said not to worry. It IS difficult to find just the right curriculum for ANY subject. We just focus on our common ground, and ignore our differences.

 

Just my humble opinion. I hope I don't offend anyone. This was NOT meant to be offensive.

 

:iagree:

[BakersDozen]

Now see, I don't know if I would let someone's favorite book kill a friendship. I'm not saying I agree with the Pearl's thinking. But I have friends who use some of their things, I have friends who co-sleep and friends who put their kids in their own bed, in their own room and let them cry it out. I have friends who chose bottle over breast and friends who breast feed until their kids were 3 years old, plus. We all have different philosophies of rearing our children. But we focus on what we share; a strong desire to have manageable children which grow to be successful adults, exhaustion, the 'I am going to wring their necks' syndrome, and the need for coffee times. Sometimes at the drop of a hat.

I just let out a huge sigh of relief upon reading this. Thank you for being, well, YOU! I would hate to think that someone would avoid a friendship with me especially if it seemed we shared the common ground of a love for the Lord because of my preference in authors/child-raising techniques. I have several friends who read/use a certain Christian author's books, someone whose suggestions make me want to scream in frustration, yet I don't run from these friends simply because they are doing what I would not.

[cin]

whew! I thought for sure I was in for rotten tomatoes. Thanks :)

[Word Nerd]

That book is a bean-dip/to-each-her-own exception for me, too.

 

But I wouldn't expect them to change their minds. Ever taken a look at the No Greater Joy Facebook page whenever the Pearls get more media attention? If anything, negative attention and articles calling their teaching into question increase the support of most of their followers. It's worth it to speak up for the few who will hear the truth, though.

[3browneyedboys4me]

whew! I thought for sure I was in for rotten tomatoes. Thanks :)

 

No...I'm in total agreement with your post! Absolutely!! I think that there just needs to be a general level of tolerance and understanding when it comes to relationships. If we all think alike, talk alike and believe alike, our relationships could be kinda boring. I am just like you; I have friends that are all over the place with their beliefs and life style choices. I enjoy each of the relationships b/c they are different and refreshing.

 

I don't know...I just think it makes for more interesting relationships.

[mom2samlibby]

Now see, I don't know if I would let someone's favorite book kill a friendship. I'm not saying I agree with the Pearl's thinking. But I have friends who use some of their things, I have friends who co-sleep and friends who put their kids in their own bed, in their own room and let them cry it out. I have friends who chose bottle over breast and friends who breast feed until their kids were 3 years old, plus. We all have different philosophies of rearing our children. But we focus on what we share; a strong desire to have manageable children which grow to be successful adults, exhaustion, the 'I am going to wring their necks' syndrome, and the need for coffee times. Sometimes at the drop of a hat.

 

I am also a devout Christian, and I have home school friends that home school solely because of their school district. And we just overlook the things we don't agree with. She's even listen as I complained about not being able to find a good Bible Curriculum, and commented with the generic response of 'Yep, finding a curriculum that meets all your needs is difficult. After which I apologized. She said not to worry. It IS difficult to find just the right curriculum for ANY subject. We just focus on our common ground, and ignore our differences.

 

Just my humble opinion. I hope I don't offend anyone. This was NOT meant to be offensive.

 

I agree with this. I'm confused as to why you would let this one thing become a huge issue. While I'm no fan of the Pearls, I don't think I would have let this come between me and a potential friend.

 

I'm thankful for the many friends in my life that are "tolerant" of my homeschooling and my non-vaccinating lifestyle choices. I know we don't agree on everything and every parenting decision, but I'm glad I'm friends with them.

[Pink Fairy]

I can see how it would have been difficult. :grouphug: I think that you would have had a better chance of getting them to see your point of view, and perhaps change their own, if you had developed a relationship with them first.

[Susan C.]

...They mentioned To Train Up a Child. :glare:

 

New family here, they seemed nice, similar theological beliefs, etc.

 

So we invited them over for dinner. Everything was going so well until they recommended that book in a list of 3 of their favorites.

 

Well, I'm not well-known for my ability to pass the bean dip, not when it comes to that book. It got a little ugly. They left.

 

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

Oh, its them again...:001_huh:

 

Since my kids are 18 and over now, I wasn't enlightened until I read the other threads. Let me tell you that you have saved yourself much grief. I am more quiet, and literally took it while my kids were younger (but I did continue to do my own thing). Everyone here did that GKGW thing, robotic kids all coming up to parents, holding their hand (the no interrupt rule), and dissing demand feeding. When we came into this group, my dc were preschool and elementary, so we were past demand, but I just couldn't get why on earth you would let a baby cry when crying means diaper, burp, sick, hungry, or just hold me???:confused: I felt like I had landed on an alien planet! I now understand why we weren't invited to people's houses a lot, and why I felt like an outsider.

 

But I am happy to report that my dc turned out great w/o it all and are wonderful people now. Just to think, you don't need that stuff!! You can listen to your heart and be nice and understanding to your kids, wow, what a thought....

 

If you can pull it off, hang with people that share your heart. Or stay to your own family. That is better than biting your lip or passing the bean dip.

[I talk to the trees]

Sorry it didn't work out, Heather!

 

I actually had to take a similar stand a couple of years ago with my homeschool "support" group. One of the moms gave a talk at one of the meetings about how wonderful the book was. I mentioned- nicely, mind you- to the group leader that I was very uncomfortable with the way this book had been held up as a shining beacon of parenting advice. No one ever addressed my concerns, and an email even went out thanking the parent who spoke for recommending the book, etc....

 

I still have one friend from the group, and one mom that I chat with occasionally because our dd's are friends, but I dropped my membership, and have been pretty much shunned by the rest of them. :sad:

[Susan C.]

Thanks ladies. I need that perspective... Right now they think that I am flawed in my thinking... Unbiblical and what-not. But I would like to think that maybe they'll come around?

 

Yeah I know, you not only don't raise your kids correctly, you aren't a good Christian either. BTDT Stick to your guns!!

[Susan C.]

whew! I thought for sure I was in for rotten tomatoes. Thanks :)

 

Cin I get what you are saying, but all the while you know they are looking down at you.....

 

If you happen to find a group that allows each to find their own way and respects that, then it works a little better. But if you are the only one that does things the way you do, it is hard. You want to fit, you second guess if you might be wrong. It is no fun.

[Corraleno]

I agree with this. I'm confused as to why you would let this one thing become a huge issue. While I'm no fan of the Pearls, I don't think I would have let this come between me and a potential friend.

Because, for some people, hitting infants with switches and beating children with plastic hoses until they "no longer have breath to complain," actually is a huge issue. Breast vs. bottle, co-sleeping vs. "Ferberizing," organic vs. junk food, homeschooling vs. PS — none of those things would be a deal-breaker for me in terms of friendship. But anyone who thinks it's OK to hit infants and children with switches and plastic hoses just lives on a completely different planet from me, and there'd be no point in pretending otherwise.

 

Jackie

[ktgrok]

Now see, I don't know if I would let someone's favorite book kill a friendship. I'm not saying I agree with the Pearl's thinking. But I have friends who use some of their things, I have friends who co-sleep and friends who put their kids in their own bed, in their own room and let them cry it out. I have friends who chose bottle over breast and friends who breast feed until their kids were 3 years old, plus. We all have different philosophies of rearing our children. But we focus on what we share; a strong desire to have manageable children which grow to be successful adults, exhaustion, the 'I am going to wring their necks' syndrome, and the need for coffee times. Sometimes at the drop of a hat.

 

I am also a devout Christian, and I have home school friends that home school solely because of their school district. And we just overlook the things we don't agree with. She's even listen as I complained about not being able to find a good Bible Curriculum, and commented with the generic response of 'Yep, finding a curriculum that meets all your needs is difficult. After which I apologized. She said not to worry. It IS difficult to find just the right curriculum for ANY subject. We just focus on our common ground, and ignore our differences.

 

Just my humble opinion. I hope I don't offend anyone. This was NOT meant to be offensive.

 

No, sorry. I am friends with people with different parenting styles. I am not friends with people that abuse their children. I think what the Pearls advocate is abuse, and nothing short of it. To me, hitting an infant with an implement is abuse, end of story. I won't hang out with child abusers.

[SKL]

I wonder how many of us would have any friends at all if we were born 40 years earlier.

[Forget-Me-Not]

Because, for some people, hitting infants with switches and beating children with plastic hoses until they "no longer have breath to complain," actually is a huge issue. Breast vs. bottle, co-sleeping vs. "Ferberizing," organic vs. junk food, homeschooling vs. PS — none of those things would be a deal-breaker for me in terms of friendship. But anyone who thinks it's OK to hit infants and children with switches and plastic hoses just lives on a completely different planet from me, and there'd be no point in pretending otherwise.

 

Jackie

 

Yep. This.

[SKL]

No, sorry. I am friends with people with different parenting styles. I am not friends with people that abuse their children.

 

Actually, I think that someone who comes out and talks openly about the fact that they are open to corporal punishment is less likely to be an abuser than someone who hides this. There are many, many child abusers who did not get their ideas from any book. You may in fact have several in your circle of friends. It's not like they are going to tell you that they kicked their kid last night or whatever.

 

I've always believed that it would be healthier for our society (and our kids) to let people "come out of the closet" about spanking rather than keep it all behind closed doors. Better to discuss how to do corporal punishment right than to make it a completely taboo topic.

[Corraleno]

Right now they think that I am flawed in my thinking... Unbiblical and what-not.

Of course your thinking is flawed and unbiblical— everyone knows that Jesus went around whipping babies and children, it's right there in the Bible, clear as day. :rolleyes:

 

I'm so sorry you have to deal with that Heather — and I'm even sorrier for all the children who have to deal with it. Makes me feel ill to even think about it. :ack2::crying::angry:

 

Jackie

[Mommyfaithe]

I am not good at the "make nice" thing. Sorry it didn't wok out. Maybe something you said will help put a shred of doubt into their methods of discipline, for lack of a better term.

 

Faithe

[AuntieM]

.... I'm confused as to why you would let this one thing become a huge issue....

 

 

Well, I can only speak for myself, but just the mention of that *particular* title brings to mind an image of children being beaten to death under the guise of discipline. My thoughts make the leap to silently question, "Wonder if they use a spatula, switch, belt, hot glue stick..." You can call me out for my wrong thinking, but it's there nonetheless.

 

Does it mean they abuse their children, just because they've read and appear to like that book? Of course not. But there's that little disappointed sigh in my heart as I understand that our once-promising friendship will likely only reach a certain depth.

 

Cin, I do appreciate your post, and I agree with what you've said. I appreciate diversity in friendships - heck, that's why I like this board! But I also long for those few and valuable friends who do completely understand my parenting choices and can think along with me in areas where I need to seek wise counsel in decision making. It's disappointing when you meet someone that you think is going to be one of those special people, only to learn that you will probably never be able to even discuss some of the biggest issues in your life with them. Could we still be friends? Sure. But probably not BFFs.

[ktgrok]

I wonder how many of us would have any friends at all if we were born 40 years earlier.

 

Um, I honestly don't think 40 years ago it was common practice to switch infants. Spank/switch older children? Sure. They knew better and messed up, and were punished. A BABY (I'm talking 6 months old) doesn't "know better" and is not choosing to disobey by wanting to be fed, reaching for an object, or sitting up in their crib. HItting them with an implement for these things is abuse. Period. And NOT something that was commonplace.

[ktgrok]

Actually, I think that someone who comes out and talks openly about the fact that they are open to corporal punishment is less likely to be an abuser than someone who hides this.

 

This makes sense to me, but we are not talking about them saying they are open to corporal punishment. They are saying they think hitting an INFANT with a STICK is a good idea. That IS abuse to me. They are openly admitting abuse if they say they follow this book, as far as I am concerned.

[mamajag]

Actually, I think that someone who comes out and talks openly about the fact that they are open to corporal punishment is less likely to be an abuser than someone who hides this. There are many, many child abusers who did not get their ideas from any book. You may in fact have several in your circle of friends. It's not like they are going to tell you that they kicked their kid last night or whatever.

 

I've always believed that it would be healthier for our society (and our kids) to let people "come out of the closet" about spanking rather than keep it all behind closed doors. Better to discuss how to do corporal punishment right than to make it a completely taboo topic.

 

We aren't talking about people who use corporal punishment. We are talking about people who advocate hitting helpless little infants with no means of communication beyond crying. There is a difference. I do spank on occasion, but I would report this sort of behavior.

[kamom]

Now see, I don't know if I would let someone's favorite book kill a friendship. I'm not saying I agree with the Pearl's thinking. But I have friends who use some of their things, I have friends who co-sleep and friends who put their kids in their own bed, in their own room and let them cry it out. I have friends who chose bottle over breast and friends who breast feed until their kids were 3 years old, plus. We all have different philosophies of rearing our children. But we focus on what we share; a strong desire to have manageable children which grow to be successful adults, exhaustion, the 'I am going to wring their necks' syndrome, and the need for coffee times. Sometimes at the drop of a hat.

 

I am also a devout Christian, and I have home school friends that home school solely because of their school district. And we just overlook the things we don't agree with. She's even listen as I complained about not being able to find a good Bible Curriculum, and commented with the generic response of 'Yep, finding a curriculum that meets all your needs is difficult. After which I apologized. She said not to worry. It IS difficult to find just the right curriculum for ANY subject. We just focus on our common ground, and ignore our differences.

 

Just my humble opinion. I hope I don't offend anyone. This was NOT meant to be offensive.

:iagree:

I am quite shocked how this board keeps hashing this/them out. Not that again.:glare::glare::001_huh::tongue_smilie:

[melissel]

Because, for some people, hitting infants with switches and beating children with plastic hoses until they "no longer have breath to complain," actually is a huge issue. Breast vs. bottle, co-sleeping vs. "Ferberizing," organic vs. junk food, homeschooling vs. PS — none of those things would be a deal-breaker for me in terms of friendship. But anyone who thinks it's OK to hit infants and children with switches and plastic hoses just lives on a completely different planet from me, and there'd be no point in pretending otherwise.

 

Jackie

 

:iagree: IMO, naming a book like that in a top 3 list speaks volumes about the person's worldview and perspective on child-rearing, and if it's going to be that vastly different from mine, I strongly suspect things are not going to work out.

 

Thanks ladies. I need that perspective... Right now they think that I am flawed in my thinking... Unbiblical and what-not. But I would like to think that maybe they'll come around?

 

And here is one of those volumes now. Disagree with the Pearls and you are un-Biblical. That's the sound of it not working out. I don't see how a friendship could survive under such conditions.

[SKL]

Um, I honestly don't think 40 years ago it was common practice to switch infants. Spank/switch older children? Sure. They knew better and messed up, and were punished. A BABY (I'm talking 6 months old) doesn't "know better" and is not choosing to disobey by wanting to be fed, reaching for an object, or sitting up in their crib. HItting them with an implement for these things is abuse. Period. And NOT something that was commonplace.

 

You're right; moms used to hit their kids with their hands, not inanimate objects. At some point that was determined to be unhealthy for the relationship. However, I personally witnessed tiny babies being (a) slapped in the face for biting on the nipple, every time it happened; (b) spanked on the diapered butt or thighs for tantruming over having to go to bed or stay in some sort of restraint; © smacked for spitting the contents of their mouths at the person feeding them; (d) spanked just for crying without reason, "giving them somethng to cry about" (which interestingly calms many wound-up babies down); (e) set up intentionally to crawl over a telephone wire, then smacked hard when the little six-month-old hands happened to touch the wire (that, I thought was ridiculous even then), and plenty of other examples. This was normal when I was a kid.

[forty-two]

Idk if I could be friends with someone who is nuts about the Pearls - I'd try, but I doubt they'd want to be friends with me, tbh. But I would feel compelled to speak up - that book is just so damaging, so insidious - it truly is like if they were giving poison to their family thinking it was something good - how could I not in good conscience speak up?

 

But I would try v v v hard to frame it as, "good parents that you are, you might not be aware of the damaging aspects of the Pearls - mommy filter and all - and I'm sure you don't take it to extremes yourself, but that book is dangerous, and I'd hate for you to accidentally adopt the bad bits or innocently rec it to a family who gets hurts by the bad bits". Make it more us good parents against the Pearls instead of you horrible Pearl-following people ;). And even then the odds of it going well are probably not high.

[SKL]

This makes sense to me, but we are not talking about them saying they are open to corporal punishment. They are saying they think hitting an INFANT with a STICK is a good idea. That IS abuse to me. They are openly admitting abuse if they say they follow this book, as far as I am concerned.

 

No. They are saying they like the book. I like the Bible, but I don't advocate stoning children to death if they get out of hand (or many other things the Bible instructs).

 

Now if they actually said "we are proud to say that we regularly beat our infant with a stick," that would be a different matter. I haven't seen the OP mention that.

[Ibbygirl]

Well that's... unfortunate.

 

I had a girlfriend mention the book at a mom's night out recently. Along with CTBHHM. I was so relieved when she said she hadn't cared for them. Whew. She's a sweet lady, and our boys enjoy one another. I would've been crushed to find she agreed with them.

 

Is it bad that I've never read To Train Up a Child (or even heard of it) and have no clue what CTBHHM even stands for?? I'm so culturally illiterate. I think I spent too much time watching Monty Python. :p

[Mommyfaithe]

Oh, its them again...:001_huh:

 

Since my kids are 18 and over now, I wasn't enlightened until I read the other threads. Let me tell you that you have saved yourself much grief. I am more quiet, and literally took it while my kids were younger (but I did continue to do my own thing). Everyone here did that GKGW thing, robotic kids all coming up to parents, holding their hand (the no interrupt rule), and dissing demand feeding. When we came into this group, my dc were preschool and elementary, so we were past demand, but I just couldn't get why on earth you would let a baby cry when crying means diaper, burp, sick, hungry, or just hold me???:confused: I felt like I had landed on an alien planet! I now understand why we weren't invited to people's houses a lot, and why I felt like an outsider.

 

But I am happy to report that my dc turned out great w/o it all and are wonderful people now. Just to think, you don't need that stuff!! You can listen to your heart and be nice and understanding to your kids, wow, what a thought....

 

If you can pull it off, hang with people that share your heart. Or stay to your own family. That is better than biting your lip or passing the bean dip.

 

:iagree: it is like when ATI invaded our area....and my dh said to high tail and run....FAST. My children and I were shunned and ostracized from our homeschool group. I had one GF and my sil, who is roman catholic, also shunned.....we dared to wear jeans...and listen to all kinds of music. It was awful. My older girls were completely dumped...then made to feel like satan's spawn.......ummmmm, my kids weren't driving down the road and swapping outfits and putting on make up....oy.

 

Anyway, I never regretted my decision to obey my husband and run like crazy from that group of women. In would rather be alone with my children than in the judgement seat in front of someone who appointed themselves judge and jury.....ugh! It was just awful!

[melissel]

No. They are saying they like the book. I like the Bible, but I don't advocate stoning children to death if they get out of hand (or many other things the Bible instructs).

 

If I'm reading a book that strongly recommends methods so sickening, there's no way I can continue reading it, let alone ever list it among my very favorites. Again, their doing so speaks volumes about the way they approach parenting and the world.