Trying to not freak out....DD8 and male piano teacher

[tothenthdegree]

My DS6 and DD8 take piano together, as a duet, in the same class with a male piano teacher. After class today, the teacher said it seemed like my daughter had become a little too comfortable with him and was being sassy. So, I spoke to my Dd about it and asked her why she wasn't being respectful and teachable and she said she doesn't like playing for the teacher because he sits next to her on his stool and puts his hand on her shoulder and moves his fingers and she doesn't like to be touched. WHAT??????? Ok, stay calm I tell myself while I'm feeling like my blood is starting to boil. Of course, I asked for specifics...how does he put his hand, has he put it anywhere else, etc. All no's, thank God! He has not put his hand on my DS. Apparently, he puts his hand on her during every class.

 

We've been taking lessons since September and are not friends with this man and even if we were, it is not appropriate. It makes me sick but grateful it has come to my attention. I don't want to read into this but.......

 

What would you do? What do you think?

 

Thank you!

[Nakia]

Can you sit in on the class?

[Trish]

I'd be looking for another piano teacher. Today.

[Jennifer3141]

Can you sit in on the class?

 

:iagree::iagree:

[regentrude]

I would give the teacher the benefit of doubt and calmly tell him that DD does not like to be touched.

If he does it innocently, he will be glad to know and will stop. If there is more, this will tell him that your DD tells you everything, that you are watchful and aware.

But I would hesitate to suspect him of sinister motives right away.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would give the teacher the benefit of doubt and calmly tell him that DD does not like to be touched.

If he does it innocently, he will be glad to know and will stop. If there is more, this will tell him that your DD tells you everything, that you are watchful and aware.

But I would hesitate to suspect him of sinister motives right away.

 

:iagree:

[tothenthdegree]

He allowed me to sit in the trial class and then said for lessons I could wait in the waiting area. If I made a stink about it I'm sure they would....it's at an academy with other classes going on and there is a window. Maybe I could watch from the window ;)

[Guest submarines]

Does he do the same with DS? Could he be trying to make her feel the rhythm. I vaguely remember my piano teacher pressing the rhythm into my forearm with her fingers.

 

Ask him about it, and watch his reaction. No matter what his methods are, he should be respectful of your DD's personal space. Then observe the lessons.

[simka2]

Regardless whether this man is dangerous, your dd is uncomfortable. Period. That is enough. She needs to be able to trust her instincts and will need you to encourage her in that. Find a new piano teacher.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry.

[Myeightkiddies]

I would either sit-in on the lessons or watch from the window. If he knows you are watching and still puts his hand on her, chances are that is just what he does (and not doing that with your son is probably just a coincidence). If he does not, then I would think something was not right.

 

If he does put his hand on her with you there or watching, and he knows you are, this would give you a perfect opportunity to let him know that she doesn't like being touched.

[In2why]

I wouldn't freak but I would observe the class, and I also would have a non confrontational conversation with the teacher that your daughter doesn't like to be touched, and that you 100% support that choice. He will likely get defensive, because every man knows what you are really concerned about, but a normal guy will be apologetic and agree with you.

 

On another note I would let your daughter know that you appreciate her telling you that a grown up made her feel uncomfortable, but I wouldn't freak her out either with any panic. I know I touch the kids I am coaching quite a bit. Some kids need a hand on their shoulder so they can clue into what you are saying and pay attention. I believe it is a tactic that most teachers use. A hand on a child's shoulder to remind them to stay on task or quiet down without needing to say a word. He could even be helping her keep time. But I would ask before I assumed.

[bbkaren]

As an adult I took lessons and the teacher does indeed sit next to the student on the bench, quite closely, because there's such a strong physical/positioning aspect to the piano. In order to share the perspective of the keyboard, etc.

 

The shoulder-touching thing, could it be posture-related maybe?

 

I always hated having the teacher so close too, but I wouldn't freak out about it...if you're wondering, I'd ask the teacher and just say DD isn't touchy-feely and you were wondering what he was trying to accomplish and maybe you could help reinforce it at home when she practices?

[Heather in OK]

Please read Protecting the Gift.

 

Don't ignore your dd's feelings or your gut.

 

He allowed me to sit in the trial class and then said for lessons I could wait in the waiting area. If I made a stink about it I'm sure they would....it's at an academy with other classes going on and there is a window. Maybe I could watch from the window

So this plus the fact that he is doing something to make your young dd uncomfortable means that you need to either demand to sit in on the class with your dd or find another teacher ASAP.

 

I lean more strongly towards finding a new teacher. There is no reason for him to be touching her in any way to teach the lesson.

[oldskool]

I'd be looking for another piano teacher. Today.

 

:iagree:

If anything, it seems your daughter isn't comfortable. Whether he is innocent or not I would honor that feeling.

[Claire in NM]

There is just too much going on in what you have communicated to let this go.

 

Claire in NM

[Moxie]

If you ignore this, how can you be sure she will come to you with other concerns? I'd tell the teacher that you are moving on and find someone she is comfortable with.

[In2why]

This is interesting to me. I was molested when I was 8 and I am vigilant, but at the same time everyone seems to automatically jump to the worse case scenario.

 

 

I can't say that I blame anyone. But I am very glad that DH isn't ever in contact with children in his profession, and only coaches with me. This day and age even I worry about being alone with a child. How do you find a balance if you want to volunteer with kids, but you also want to keep yourself safe? As I am thinking about this and typing, I guess coaching is better because you are in public, and I know that cubscouts have 2 deep leadership, but I wonder about other situations. Even in the OP's case the child isn't alone, but with her sibling and there is a public window into the classes. But then again there are times when I have had kids spend the night here and I guess there have been times when things could be misconstrued. One child threw up on his PJ's, not because he was sick, but over stimulated. I had him go in the bathroom and brought him a pair of my 8 y/o. I also gave him a wet washcloth and put it on the back of his neck. We were basically alone at the time.

[NanceXToo]

He's rubbing her shoulder (not necessary at all), making her uncomfortable (she needs to listen to her gut and so do you), and has put you in a position of talking to her to get her to be more compliant for him? Uh... No thanks. I'd let the school know it may be nothing but we are moving on and here's why and see ya later.

[justamouse]

I would give the teacher the benefit of doubt and calmly tell him that DD does not like to be touched.

If he does it innocently, he will be glad to know and will stop. If there is more, this will tell him that your DD tells you everything, that you are watchful and aware.

But I would hesitate to suspect him of sinister motives right away.

:iagree:

 

He *could* be helping her keep time, if she tends to slow down or speed up? I don't know, just a benefit of the doubt idea to toss out.

 

But if Ds is there, too, I doubt something would ahve happened that you had not heard of. Just sit in and read a book.

[justamouse]

I wouldn't freak but I would observe the class, and I also would have a non confrontational conversation with the teacher that your daughter doesn't like to be touched, and that you 100% support that choice. He will likely get defensive, because every man knows what you are really concerned about, but a normal guy will be apologetic and agree with you.

 

On another note I would let your daughter know that you appreciate her telling you that a grown up made her feel uncomfortable, but I wouldn't freak her out either with any panic. I know I touch the kids I am coaching quite a bit. Some kids need a hand on their shoulder so they can clue into what you are saying and pay attention. I believe it is a tactic that most teachers use. A hand on a child's shoulder to remind them to stay on task or quiet down without needing to say a word. He could even be helping her keep time. But I would ask before I assumed.

 

Esp with one that is not hearing you and needs to be brought back to the task at hand. As I walk around the class I touch unruly shoulders.

[rafiki]

.

[Hilltop]

Regardless whether this man is dangerous, your dd is uncomfortable. Period. That is enough. She needs to be able to trust her instincts and will need you to encourage her in that. Find a new piano teacher.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry.

 

:iagree:

[NotSoObvious]

If it makes yours daughter uncomfortable, I'd probably just get a new teacher. I would think telling him not to touch her might just make the situation tense for everyone. He might feel verrry uncomfortable after that.

 

Personally, because of my girls' history, I would just get a new teacher. But full disclosure: I would never choose a male teacher for something that intimate. So take it with a grain of salt.

 

At this point it's not about accusing him of anything. It's about your daughter. It sounds like it's not a good fit, personality wise, anyway. It might be a good opportunity to show her how important it is for her to tell you these things. Maybe she could tell you if she wants a new teacher?

[catz]

My son takes Suzuki piano and I sit in on every lesson. His teacher regularly touches and adjusts his back, shoulders, arms, hands. So I don't necessarily see anything malicious in his intent at all. However, if your daughter is uncomfortable maybe having a female teacher would be better for her. Or having you sit in to take notes. Or telling him she's not comfortable with physical contact.

 

Edited for IPad spelling flukes.

Edited December 16, 2011 by kck

[Farrar]

I would give the teacher the benefit of doubt and calmly tell him that DD does not like to be touched.

If he does it innocently, he will be glad to know and will stop. If there is more, this will tell him that your DD tells you everything, that you are watchful and aware.

But I would hesitate to suspect him of sinister motives right away.

 

:iagree:

 

You can observe from the window too. Don't jump to the worst conclusions with only this for evidence.

[angela in ohio]

Was she sassing about him touching her or something else? I wouldn't give her a pass on sassing unless it was asking him not to touch her.

 

He really should know better, though. What man doesn't realize that in this day and age a man can't touch a child at all? And a piano teacher does sometimes need to touch a student, so I would find a female teacher for her.

 

It sounds innocent to me (there is a window you can see through and your ds is there,) but if she doesn't like it, she will likely never feel right around him. I would switch her to a new teacher.

[Harriet Vane]

I would not read into this. I would, however, acknowledge your daughter's feelings and get a new teacher.

[LMD]

How uncomfortable is your DD? Does she not want him to teach her anymore? Would having you there in the room make her feel more comfortable?

 

I'd be reluctant to jump to conclusions, but at the same time I would do whatever I could to make sure my child felt safe and heard.

 

If my child was not too upset and happy to continue lessons (in a 'this thing that teacher does bugs me' way) with confidence that I would be in the room ready to stand up for her if he does it again - at which point I'd jump in straight away with a friendly 'she doesn't like to be touched, thanks'. I'd also use this as a gauge to see if he acted mostly the same with a parent there. TBH, I would probably insist on being there anyway, as my children's music teacher says I need to be there so I know how to reinforce practice at home...

[SweetMissMagnolia]

I'd be looking for another piano teacher. Today.

:iagree:

[tothenthdegree]

I knew this was the right forum to post this....you all are wonderful. Thank you for your input. I talked to my daughter to let her know her feelings and instincts matter to me. She's had great instincts since she was four and her behavior towards her teacher is unlike her. She is my first-born, compliant, pleaser child. At 8 how does she know to express what she is feeling but with nervous, almost hyper behavior and sass (which is not acceptable but glad she did otherwise who knows where this would have led). She knew the hand on her shoulder, with fingers moving, like a tickle, was just.not.right.

 

Anyway, she said she feels uncomfortable with the teacher and would prefer a female. I think sitting in class would just make everyone feel awkward and uncomfortable. So, we're off to find another piano teacher, a female.

 

May God bless you all!

[Teachin'Mine]

Good for you for validating your daughter's feelings! Good for her for speaking up!

[Heather in OK]

Good job Mama!

 

He *could* be helping her keep time

So he can use a metronome.

[Iucounu]

inappropriate though non-sexual touching of one child and not another of the opposite sex = possible pedo

[Guest submarines]

I knew this was the right forum to post this....you all are wonderful. Thank you for your input. I talked to my daughter to let her know her feelings and instincts matter to me. She's had great instincts since she was four and her behavior towards her teacher is unlike her. She is my first-born, compliant, pleaser child. At 8 how does she know to express what she is feeling but with nervous, almost hyper behavior and sass (which is not acceptable but glad she did otherwise who knows where this would have led). She knew the hand on her shoulder, with fingers moving, like a tickle, was just.not.right.

 

Anyway, she said she feels uncomfortable with the teacher and would prefer a female. I think sitting in class would just make everyone feel awkward and uncomfortable. So, we're off to find another piano teacher, a female.

 

May God bless you all!

 

:iagree: A child being uncomfortable with a teacher (for whatever reason) is enough for me to change teachers. I hope you find a teacher which is a good fit for your DD. :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

 

Anyway, she said she feels uncomfortable with the teacher and would prefer a female. I think sitting in class would just make everyone feel awkward and uncomfortable. So, we're off to find another piano teacher, a female.

 

I think you're doing the right thing, even if the man was completely harmless. You're respecting your dd's feelings, and that is the most important thing.

[StephanieZ]

I am usually pretty paranoid . . . but putting a hand on a SHOULDER should be safe. Even in places with strict non-touching guidelines, the shoulder is usually considered non-sexual and safe.

 

If she doesn't like it, can you try teaching her to say so? Coach her in saying, "I really don't like to have my shoulder touched, thank you." See how it goes. You could even be there with her for the lesson when she says it.

 

I don't think there is anything to be alarmed about.

[gardenmom5]

I would sit in on their class and see exactly what is going on. It could be perfectly harmless, just annoying. (and if it's not, I want my eyewitness testimony to report to the proper authorities.) Is the stool seperate from what your dd sits on? that would concern me.

 

the finger moving could be keeping time/rythm and not even aware of it. (my husband does it to me when there is music, and I want to punch him - I have SPD. He's not aware of doing it.) the fact he only does it to your dd would have me paying much closer attention. (with the probability of looking for a new teacher.)

[jewellsmommy]

I think you're doing the right thing, even if the man was completely harmless. You're respecting your dd's feelings, and that is the most important thing.

 

 

:iagree: You have to do what makes your dd most comfortable. Anything else would cause her to second guess her own protective instinct or make her feel as though she is supposed to suppress her own discomfort for the sake of something else.

 

Its great that you were able to find this out and show your dd that you take her feelings seriously. :grouphug:

[LucyStoner]

Regardless whether this man is dangerous, your dd is uncomfortable. Period. That is enough. She needs to be able to trust her instincts and will need you to encourage her in that. Find a new piano teacher.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry.

 

:iagree:

 

It is likely nothing but you need to show your daughter you will not force her to stay in contact with people who make her uncomfortable.

 

Does he do the same to your DS?

[Joanne]

Regardless whether this man is dangerous, your dd is uncomfortable. Period. That is enough. She needs to be able to trust her instincts and will need you to encourage her in that. Find a new piano teacher.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry.

 

 

 

He's rubbing her shoulder (not necessary at all), making her uncomfortable (she needs to listen to her gut and so do you), and has put you in a position of talking to her to get her to be more compliant for him? Uh... No thanks. I'd let the school know it may be nothing but we are moving on and here's why and see ya later.

 

The juxtaposition of your dd's gut feelings AND his talking to you about her "sass" has me creeped out. He doesn't give physical redirects, piano related, to your son?

 

It *could* be coincidence. But I'm not staying to find out.

[tex-mex]

Can you sit in on the class?

:iagree:

[sgo95]

I'm glad that you're taking your dd's feelings seriously and I think it's important to find someone she's comfortable with. That said, I teach my kids piano and I often am in close physical contact with them (I sit next to them and have them place their hands over mine to demonstrate things and I often tap out the rhythm for them on their thigh so they can feel it more). So, I don't necessarily get a weird vibe from him touching her shoulder. Either way, I agree with respecting her feelings of being uncomfortable. (For my dd's, I tend to seek out women everything-physicians, dentists, teachers.)

[YLVD]

My DS6 and DD8 take piano together, as a duet, in the same class with a male piano teacher. After class today, the teacher said it seemed like my daughter had become a little too comfortable with him and was being sassy. So, I spoke to my Dd about it and asked her why she wasn't being respectful and teachable and she said she doesn't like playing for the teacher because he sits next to her on his stool and puts his hand on her shoulder and moves his fingers and she doesn't like to be touched. WHAT??????? Ok, stay calm I tell myself while I'm feeling like my blood is starting to boil. Of course, I asked for specifics...how does he put his hand, has he put it anywhere else, etc. All no's, thank God! He has not put his hand on my DS. Apparently, he puts his hand on her during every class.

 

We've been taking lessons since September and are not friends with this man and even if we were, it is not appropriate. It makes me sick but grateful it has come to my attention. I don't want to read into this but.......

 

What would you do? What do you think?

 

Thank you!

 

I would find a new teacher, right away. I would also probably find a counselor and take her in to make sure that nothing else happened.

[YLVD]

Please read Protecting the Gift.

 

Don't ignore your dd's feelings or your gut.

 

 

So this plus the fact that he is doing something to make your young dd uncomfortable means that you need to either demand to sit in on the class with your dd or find another teacher ASAP.

 

I lean more strongly towards finding a new teacher. There is no reason for him to be touching her in any way to teach the lesson.

 

:iagree:

 

Those instincts are usually right. Take it very seriously, which you seem to be doing, which is wonderful.

[YLVD]

This is interesting to me. I was molested when I was 8 and I am vigilant, but at the same time everyone seems to automatically jump to the worse case scenario.

 

 

I can't say that I blame anyone. But I am very glad that DH isn't ever in contact with children in his profession, and only coaches with me. This day and age even I worry about being alone with a child. How do you find a balance if you want to volunteer with kids, but you also want to keep yourself safe? As I am thinking about this and typing, I guess coaching is better because you are in public, and I know that cubscouts have 2 deep leadership, but I wonder about other situations. Even in the OP's case the child isn't alone, but with her sibling and there is a public window into the classes. But then again there are times when I have had kids spend the night here and I guess there have been times when things could be misconstrued. One child threw up on his PJ's, not because he was sick, but over stimulated. I had him go in the bathroom and brought him a pair of my 8 y/o. I also gave him a wet washcloth and put it on the back of his neck. We were basically alone at the time.

 

The sad thing is, so many more children are raped and molested than any of us know about.

 

I worked in the legal and criminal justice systems. You would be horrified at how many offenders there are and how many are not just teachers but fathers, brothers.

 

It is really sick and while it is hard for innocent men, it's crucial to be vigilant

[YLVD]

I knew this was the right forum to post this....you all are wonderful. Thank you for your input. I talked to my daughter to let her know her feelings and instincts matter to me. She's had great instincts since she was four and her behavior towards her teacher is unlike her. She is my first-born, compliant, pleaser child. At 8 how does she know to express what she is feeling but with nervous, almost hyper behavior and sass (which is not acceptable but glad she did otherwise who knows where this would have led). She knew the hand on her shoulder, with fingers moving, like a tickle, was just.not.right.

 

Anyway, she said she feels uncomfortable with the teacher and would prefer a female. I think sitting in class would just make everyone feel awkward and uncomfortable. So, we're off to find another piano teacher, a female.

 

May God bless you all!

 

I'm sorry but I just now saw this. You did the right thing. Also, your DD now knows that you trust her feelings and instincts. That is so crucial. Good job mom, and good luck!

[QuirkyKapers]

Way to go listening to your daughter and that she is uncomfortable. :grouphug:

[Terabith]

I agree that the fact that your dd is uncomfortable/ doesn't like the teacher is probably enough to change teachers. But, I would be sure to make sure that it is not tacitly approving of disrespectful behavior. (And perhaps my feelings are colored by the fact that my own 8 yr old has recently developed sarcasm and sass.) My gut feeling is that this is harmless. Public, window, group situation.... As to why putting a hand on her shoulder and not your son? My initial response is that perhaps she is the one who needs to work on rhythm/ posture/ etc.

 

There are a lot of pedophiles out there, and we have to be aware, but most men are not pedophiles, and I think it does a disservice to kids to make them distrust half the population. That said, I trust my gut. I would probably find a new teacher, IF my dd liked piano. If I thought she was just trying to get out of lessons, then I would probably just watch.

[ChrissySC]

Not to defend him, but ...

 

My female teacher would hold my shoulders to remind me of posture problems that I had. As well, she often tapped her fingers to the metronome ticks.

[Dmmetler]

Good job Mama!

 

 

So he can use a metronome.

 

 

As a music teacher, I do have to say that a metronome often doesn't work well for young musicians-they struggle with it, and many kids DO respond better to a tactile cue. I do think it's hard for male music teachers in part because of that reason-of the three men I know of who have been accused and had the accusations discovered to be false, two of the three were music teachers (in schools), although usually with older kids. I don't think you could PAY me enough to teach beginning band if I were male, because it IS so common to physically correct posture, and all it takes is one hysterical middle school girl who gets mad at you and spreads rumors that you touched her (especially if she has friends who will come in and say that "he always touches the girls in class"-forgetting that the teacher is also touching the boys who probably never even registered it) to totally ruin your career.

 

I'm glad the OP is following her daughter's instincts, simply because it's important to be comfortable with a teacher and she isn't. But at the same time, I've seen one of the most talented band teachers I know go from teaching to a 2 year struggle to be vindicated and regain his reputation, to currently teaching GED classes in a prison because he STILL couldn't get hired by a school system even though he HAD been vindicated.