Please, help me respond to this email about social skills and homeschoolers

[Dobela]

Background: I am organizing a Not Back to School Party Next week for our area homeschoolers. After realizing that most who have RSVP'd are also new to our area, another person and I are creating a packet with information about local businesses and such. Last night I sent an email thru our local Selling organizations online asking for people interested in promoting their business to our group.

 

A photographer responded and is actually making a very nice offer to homeschoolers in addition to wanting to set up a day for School Pictures. I like the idea personally and told her so. This morning this I have a new email from her and it is a beautiful email until this:

I have a pretty open schedule actually during the week. My studio is way too small to accommodate a bunch of children, sadly, however I am more than willing to grab backdrops and travel! Children are notoriously difficult to photograph when they are uncomfortable or feel like they're "on the spot". These children that are homeschooled are particularly out of the loop, so to speak, not being acclimated to a social environment in the first place.

 

How would you respond?

[CarenM]

I would have to cool down before I responded.

 

Right now my jaw is sitting on the floor:banghead:

 

People completely understand most home schoolers.

[curlylocks]

WOW! :glare:

 

I have no words right now...:glare:

[Lily_Grace]

"Thank you, but I'm afraid we'll have to pass on the offer. Our homeschooled children are much too busy taking classes, hanging out with friends, and volunteering in the community for photos at the moment. "

 

 

 

I wouldn't want her taking pics of my kids if she's going to be looking at them like aliens.

[kitten18]

Hoooo boy! I have no response for that right now. :glare:

[JulieH]

I would have to cool down before I responded.

 

Right now my jaw is sitting on the floor:banghead:

 

People completely understand most home schoolers.

 

LOL I know!

 

My first thought was "uh, tell her to eat dirt and pound sand".:lol: (just kidding...)

 

Sounds like she's just completely ignorant about homeschooling.

 

For this "not back to school party", is there another mom who loves photography that may be able to do something for you? Or a high school homeschooler? My daughter's best friend is a phenomenal photographer and did all that stuff for her local homeschool group.

[springmama]

Wow.

 

I am probably the most socially awkward person around, so my response is probably not appropriate but my inclination would be to say "why do you say that?" and act all confused about why she thinks homeschooled kids are "out of the loop"

 

Actually, she is probably just clueless. Maybe she'll learn a little something during this photo shoot. Maybe it will influence her in a really positive way.

[melmichigan]

I would take a deap breath and give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she is referring to the cattle hearding way they do pictures at the local public school? At least at our local public school, if you haven't seen it, it's hard to believe. There is no reference for most kids until you've been there, it's an unreal experience. :)

[Snickerdoodle]

Well, I can certainly think of a few homeschoolers who have kids who are a bit out of control.

 

Have you ever been on a museum tour with a group of homeschoolers? :D Sometimes I'm embarrassed.

[delaney]

Wow, ok then. :glare:

[nono]

Oh, the only thing that will cure that will be positive experience. I'd ignore the line and work to see if she could photograph at the gathering.

 

But, after her positive experience, I'd repeat her words to her and suggest that perhaps she can update her thinking. ;)

 

With that kind of tact, I'm surprised she's in business!

[Parrothead]

I'd do everything humanly possible to make sure the photographer eats those words by the time the week is out. I'd notify the parents of what she said. I would put school on hold for the week if needed to help out the parents that feel the need for assistance. Do whatever needed to be done.

 

Then when it was over I'd send the photographer an email thanking her for her time and sending my sincerest hopes that she wasn't overwhelmed with the socially awkward homeschoolers.

[JulieH]

Well, I can certainly think of a few homeschoolers who have kids who are a bit out of control.

 

Have you ever been on a museum tour with a group of homeschoolers? :D Sometimes I'm embarrassed.

 

good point...:D

[mrs.m]

The only one who is socially out of the loop is the photographer which is why she finds children difficult to photograph. ;) I'm not sure how I would respond to that email. I probably wouldn't give her the business.

[SeekingSimplicity]

There's very little I would write that wouldn't be insulting. So I think I'd just let her know that she might be pleasantly surprised at how well behaved the children are. (of course with my luck, as soon as I said that, there would be a full moon and all the children would grow fur and fangs and their mothers would give them ungodly amounts of koolaid creating absolute chaos.)

[Princess Peach]

Oh, the only thing that will cure that will be positive experience. I'd ignore the line and work to see if she could photograph at the gathering.

 

But, after her positive experience, I'd repeat her words to her and suggest that perhaps she can update her thinking. ;)

 

With that kind of tact, I'm surprised she's in business!

 

:iagree:

 

I think I would respond with "Whatever gave you that idea? If you've had negative experiences in the past, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by our group." Or something like that.

 

Quite frankly, I've heard plenty of people lump all public school kids into the same category (i.e., ill-behaved), so we shouldn't be surprised that stereotypes exist about homeschoolers.

[tmulcahy]

OK...she is saying that homeschoolers lack social skills:confused: Oh my word! That is some way to run a business. That is all I have to say:lol:

[FO4UR]

Graciously educate this woman. Give her one free pass, and then let the Hive have at 'er.

[mrs.m]

Well, I can certainly think of a few homeschoolers who have kids who are a bit out of control.

 

Have you ever been on a museum tour with a group of homeschoolers? :D Sometimes I'm embarrassed.

 

That's just kids being kids. :)

[mommaduck]

I'd do everything humanly possible to make sure the photographer eats those words by the time the week is out. I'd notify the parents of what she said. I would put school on hold for the week if needed to help out the parents that feel the need for assistance. Do whatever needed to be done.

 

Then when it was over I'd send the photographer an email thanking her for her time and sending my sincerest hopes that she wasn't overwhelmed with the socially awkward homeschoolers.

 

Heavens, maybe even invite her to the party to take a group picture ;)

[DawnM]

I would want to know what loop she is talking about? Does she prefer teens who sigh and swear and refuse to smile?

 

I honestly wouldn't even want to hire her and would be looking elsewhere for someone to do the photos.

 

Dawn

[NotSoObvious]

Perhaps someone who thinks "children are notoriously difficult to photograph" has no business photographing children. :)

[Rivka]

"Oh, good, so you won't mind visiting them all in their separate cells. I'm going to have to ask you to be careful with the locks, though - last week one of mine got out, and she almost made it as far as a Girl Scout meeting before we caught up with her. Whew! That was close!"

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Well, I can certainly think of a few homeschoolers who have kids who are a bit out of control.

 

Have you ever been on a museum tour with a group of homeschoolers? :D Sometimes I'm embarrassed.

 

Have you seen a group of ps kids at a museum? Sometimes I'm embarrassed! :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

I honestly don't think it is fair to state it as a "homeschooled" thing, I think it's just a kid/parent thing. Sometimes it is a kid who has behavior issues, sometimes it is a parenting issue. I don't think homeschooled kids, as a whole, would be any harder to deal with at a photo shoot than any other randomly pulled out group of ps kids.

[Greenmama2]

Perhaps someone who thinks "children are notoriously difficult to photograph" has no business photographing children. :)

 

:iagree:

[Dobela]

I would have to cool down before I responded.

 

Right now my jaw is sitting on the floor:banghead:

 

People completely understand most home schoolers.

That's why I put it here first. I needed time to think of a good reply.

 

"Thank you, but I'm afraid we'll have to pass on the offer. Our homeschooled children are much too busy taking classes, hanging out with friends, and volunteering in the community for photos at the moment. "

 

 

 

I wouldn't want her taking pics of my kids if she's going to be looking at them like aliens.

Yeah, I almost sent the same message but that isn't going to help matters...

 

I would take a deap breath and give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she is referring to the cattle hearding way they do pictures at the local public school? At least at our local public school, if you haven't seen it, it's hard to believe. There is no reference for most kids until you've been there, it's an unreal experience. :)

She did say provide references that included a company who handles most of the cattle call public school photography in our area. And as a former public school teacher I know how crazy those are. Plus, honestly, not all kids at all ages are easy to photograph. My best friend's brother is a great photographer and great with kids, but the kids are still sometimes difficult.

 

Well, I can certainly think of a few homeschoolers who have kids who are a bit out of control.

 

Have you ever been on a museum tour with a group of homeschoolers? :D Sometimes I'm embarrassed.

Yeah, we have a family or 2 of those in our group as well.

 

For the party next week she is just providing business cards or the like, she isn't actually taking photos. She was wanting to set up a group time in the future, say October, to do they school type photos. I have a location and time we could do the photographs at one of our meetings, and I know families who would like this opportunity...

 

Maybe just ignore the comment for the moment ???

[Old Dominion Heather]

That's just kids being kids. :)

 

I don't know. I have NEVER been on a school field trip where the kids were as poorly behaved as the few homeschool field trips I have taken my kids on. It took two tries to decide that we would NEVER do that again.

 

I think the problem is that in a school situation, there is one person (the teacher) who is responsible for group discipline. The parents who come along, back her authority.

 

In a homeschool situation, there is no clear overall authority figure and the kids know this internally and take advantage. No one wants to correct other people's kids. These trips were absolute chaos. I was embarrassed to be associated with them.

[Snickerdoodle]

 

In a homeschool situation, there is no clear overall authority figure and the kids know this internally and take advantage. No one wants to correct other people's kids. These trips were absolute chaos. I was embarrassed to be associated with them.

Exactly this.

[mrs.m]

I don't know. I have NEVER been on a school field trip where the kids were as poorly behaved as the few homeschool field trips I have taken my kids on. It took two tries to decide that we would NEVER do that again.

 

I think the problem is that in a school situation, there is one person (the teacher) who is responsible for group discipline. The parents who come along, back her authority.

 

In a homeschool situation, there is no clear overall authority figure and the kids know this internally and take advantage. No one wants to correct other people's kids. These trips were absolute chaos. I was embarrassed to be associated with them.

 

 

My experience has been that the behavior was not much different between the PS children (my children went to PS for 4 yrs.) and homeschool children.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Oh, the only thing that will cure that will be positive experience. I'd ignore the line and work to see if she could photograph at the gathering.

 

But, after her positive experience, I'd repeat her words to her and suggest that perhaps she can update her thinking. ;)

 

 

 

I'd do everything humanly possible to make sure the photographer eats those words by the time the week is out. I'd notify the parents of what she said. I would put school on hold for the week if needed to help out the parents that feel the need for assistance. Do whatever needed to be done.

 

Then when it was over I'd send the photographer an email thanking her for her time and sending my sincerest hopes that she wasn't overwhelmed with the socially awkward homeschoolers.

 

 

The problem is that people have a tendency to "see" what they are predisposed to be looking for. You know, like when you learn a new word and all the sudden it seems to be everywhere? The word was always there, but you didn't notice it until you were looking for it? If someone already has a prejudice, then every little thing that goes wrong, even if it is something that would have gone wrong with a ps kid, will be added to that prejudice. "See, I knew these homeschool kids would not behave."

 

There's very little I would write that wouldn't be insulting. So I think I'd just let her know that she might be pleasantly surprised at how well behaved the children are. (of course with my luck, as soon as I said that, there would be a full moon and all the children would grow fur and fangs and their mothers would give them ungodly amounts of koolaid creating absolute chaos.)

 

And there is this possibility as well! :iagree: :lol::lol::lol:

 

 

I think it would be better to either quietly move on to another photographer, or choose to gently confront the prejudice. Whichever you are more inclined to do. I like the suggestion of asking her the question "what do you mean?" Just the question causes her to re-think what she is presuming. Then, based on her answer, you can educate her about homeschooling.

[kitten18]

"Oh, good, so you won't mind visiting them all in their separate cells. I'm going to have to ask you to be careful with the locks, though - last week one of mine got out, and she almost made it as far as a Girl Scout meeting before we caught up with her. Whew! That was close!"

:lol:

[cbollin]

I would reply in a business fashion such as :

 

Dear Photographer:

 

Thank you for being honest that your skills in photography do not meet our needs to photograph people. It is much better to know that information up front that you are the not the photographer that we want.

 

We will look elsewhere for business. Plenty of photographers are skilled in group photos involving people of all ages without regard to location of education of the children involved. I will be sure to let many people know that you are not a good candidate to hire for any needs in photography involving people, weddings, groups, family portraits, etc as they will find you difficult to work with.

 

Sincerely,

************

 

 

 

Basically it sounds to me that the person is saying I don't want this job and hope you don't hire me.

 

So, I'd respond by that measure. ;)

 

-crystal

[Rebookie]

I think it was well meaning.. Just ignorant. I wouldn't fault her too much, because she doesn't get it.

[Rebookie]

If anything I would hire her to change her mind!

[wapiti]

I would ignore the comment. A picture is worth a thousand words ;)

[HollyBee]

Well, I can certainly think of a few homeschoolers who have kids who are a bit out of control.

 

Have you ever been on a museum tour with a group of homeschoolers? :D Sometimes I'm embarrassed.

 

This. I've almost gotten to the point where I won't go on field trips with a group anymore. And all the moms are with us. :confused:

[nansk]

I agree her email should have been worded more carefully, however, I would think by now homeschoolers would know how to politely educate a person who is ignorant about homeschooling without alienating the person.

 

If you are sure the families in your group want this opportunity to be photographed together, I would suggest you clear the photographer's misconceptions and move forward with the meetings.

[Matryoshka]

I don't know. I have NEVER been on a school field trip where the kids were as poorly behaved as the few homeschool field trips I have taken my kids on. It took two tries to decide that we would NEVER do that again.

 

I think the problem is that in a school situation, there is one person (the teacher) who is responsible for group discipline. The parents who come along, back her authority.

 

In a homeschool situation, there is no clear overall authority figure and the kids know this internally and take advantage. No one wants to correct other people's kids. These trips were absolute chaos. I was embarrassed to be associated with them.

 

I've had the opposite experience. When we go to the science museum, we specifically avoid going before 1pm, because that's when all the ps field trips are there. The kids gallumph around with arms and legs waving, running wildly from exhibit to exhibit - they push random buttons on the displays and grab things and tug and then gallumph on to the next thing - when my kids were small, I was honestly afraid they'd be trampled.

 

The homeschool field trips I've been on, the kids have been well-behaved and attentive. We were just on a field trip to a reptile distributor/breeder, and the guy giving the talk/tour extended it by half an hour for free because the kids were all interested and asking questions (he was giving quite detailed info on pheno- and genotypes and dominant/recessive genes) and behaving - he said usually the groups are bored and don't ask questions and it goes much more quickly.

[ktgrok]

I would act confused...something like, "oh goodness,I think you misunderstand our group! The entire purpose of our group it to facilitate regular social outings and experiences. The only difficulty these kids have with social experiences is finding time for schoolwork in between all the fun! I'm glad I could clear that up for you, please contact me with a date for the pictures that works for you."

[Old Dominion Heather]

I taught PS for four years. The problem with homeschool field trips is that there are no guidelines for dealing with students who are misbehaving, that is up to each parent. You can't send a kid or family of kids to sit by the bus for misbehavior. You have no way of enforcing good behavior on the trip.

 

When I taught, I took my class of as many as 29 kids on trips, with the others in their grades, so as many as 250 total, both local sites and hundreds of miles away. Every one of those kids had to earn the trip. Every one of those kids was prepared through study to understand what we would be learning. They didn't all behave all the time, but those who didn't were sent to sit on the bus and wait. When you deal with a group that size, there is no tolerance for disrespectful or downright dangerous behavior.

 

This is all anecdotal evidence, but it accurately describes my experiences with field trips as a PS teacher. My experiences with field trips as a homeschooler are over. It was mortifying. Some people arrived a half an hour late and people had asked the tour guides to wait for them. Half of the attendees were ill-prepared, uninterested, and unwashed. The children were rude and disrespectful to each other, the parents, and the tour leaders.

 

I apologized afterward for the behavior of the group and the guide said, "Oh, don't worry about it. Homeschool groups are always like that. We've never had one that wasn't."

[mrs.m]

This is all anecdotal evidence, but it accurately describes my experiences with field trips as a PS teacher. My experiences with field trips as a homeschooler are over. It was mortifying. Some people arrived a half an hour late and people had asked the tour guides to wait for them. Half of the attendees were ill-prepared, uninterested, and unwashed. The children were rude and disrespectful to each other, the parents, and the tour leaders.

 

I apologized afterward for the behavior of the group and the guide said, "Oh, don't worry about it. Homeschool groups are always like that. We've never had one that wasn't."

 

I think this is where our experiences differ. I have never encountered this with the families in our homeschool group. But it is part of the group's mission that we are working together (it's even in the name of the group) so it is expected that we would appropriately correct each other's children. And the children are divided into groups according to age which means they are not always with their parents. Our group always gets complimented and invited back for the next year. In fact we get priority scheduling with the nature center and they created special classes for our group because the children are engaged and polite.

 

They aren't perfect. There's still the random outburst and jumping up and down. But it's more along the lines of what I experienced on field trips with my DD's class at public school. I didn't think they were overly roudy either.

[ZooRho]

BWHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

 

WHAT A GREAT LAUGH

 

yes the children are all holed up and never around other people at all

 

BWAHAHAAHAHAHAH

[ZooRho]

I think this is where our experiences differ. I have never encountered this with the families in our homeschool group. But it is part of the group's mission that we are working together (it's even in the name of the group) so it is expected that we would appropriately correct each other's children. And the children are divided into groups according to age which means they are not always with their parents. Our group always gets complimented and invited back for the next year. In fact we get priority scheduling with the nature center and they created special classes for our group because the children are engaged and polite.

 

They aren't perfect. There's still the random outburst and jumping up and down. But it's more along the lines of what I experienced on field trips with my DD's class at public school. I didn't think they were overly roudy either.

 

This pretty much describes my coop. We had expectations and the Mom's-(killakitty), knew it. We would talk to parents that let children get out of line or they would be asked not to attend, but I think we only had one mom that sadly was that way, and sadly in all honesty didn't really do her children justice.

 

anyway we did get compliments on our group.

 

I also took my kids-and we had 3 at the time including a foster child-we got RAVE reviews by a park ranger for how engaging my kids were at Independence hall.

[Old Dominion Heather]

I think this is where our experiences differ. I have never encountered this with the families in our homeschool group. But it is part of the group's mission that we are working together (it's even in the name of the group) so it is expected that we would appropriately correct each other's children. And the children are divided into groups according to age which means they are not always with their parents. Our group always gets complimented and invited back for the next year. In fact we get priority scheduling with the nature center and they created special classes for our group because the children are engaged and polite.

 

They aren't perfect. There's still the random outburst and jumping up and down. But it's more along the lines of what I experienced on field trips with my DD's class at public school. I didn't think they were overly roudy either.

 

Yes, I think you have hit on what most homeschool groups lack. A chain of command! The kids understand who they are supposed to be with and which adults to pay attention to. Organization makes all the difference. I'd go on a trip with YOUR group!

[SailorMom]

Well, I can certainly think of a few homeschoolers who have kids who are a bit out of control.

 

Have you ever been on a museum tour with a group of homeschoolers? :D Sometimes I'm embarrassed.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Sorry - but I'v had some pretty embarrassing exsperiences myself, and have been at the listening end of complaints about hs groups.

I think it is sad that all hs-kids are painted with the same brush, and if this is just her knee-jerk reaction, then it is riduculous.... but she may have some experience there....

[Julie in CA]

I don't know. I have NEVER been on a school field trip where the kids were as poorly behaved as the few homeschool field trips I have taken my kids on. It took two tries to decide that we would NEVER do that again.

 

I think the problem is that in a school situation, there is one person (the teacher) who is responsible for group discipline. The parents who come along, back her authority.

 

In a homeschool situation, there is no clear overall authority figure and the kids know this internally and take advantage. No one wants to correct other people's kids. These trips were absolute chaos. I was embarrassed to be associated with them.

:iagree:

[SailorMom]

I don't know. I have NEVER been on a school field trip where the kids were as poorly behaved as the few homeschool field trips I have taken my kids on. It took two tries to decide that we would NEVER do that again.

 

I think the problem is that in a school situation, there is one person (the teacher) who is responsible for group discipline. The parents who come along, back her authority.

 

In a homeschool situation, there is no clear overall authority figure and the kids know this internally and take advantage. No one wants to correct other people's kids. These trips were absolute chaos. I was embarrassed to be associated with them.

:iagree:

 

I've done PS and HS as well, and this is my experience.

 

Iagree, though, that ps kids can get just as bad on a normal basis, but they do seem to be better behaved on field trips.

[JZMom]

"Oh, good, so you won't mind visiting them all in their separate cells. I'm going to have to ask you to be careful with the locks, though - last week one of mine got out, and she almost made it as far as a Girl Scout meeting before we caught up with her. Whew! That was close!"

Perfect! :lol: The way she worded it, I think this is exactly what she is picturing.

[Jenny in Florida]

How would you respond?

 

I honestly think I would let her know that we were going to have to pass on her kind offer, since we'd be more comfortable working with a photographer who didn't come in with preconceived notions about our children.

 

I'd be very, very polite and classy but firm.

[mommaduck]

I honestly think I would let her know that we were going to have to pass on her kind offer, since we'd be more comfortable working with a photographer who didn't come in with preconceived notions about our children.

 

I'd be very, very polite and classy but firm.

 

I like this way of putting it.