Define poor.

[Sputterduck]

How little would you need in your life to consider yourself poor.

 

I'm curious after looking through the food stamp thread.

[Cheryl in NM]

Of course, poor can be a relative term.

 

For us, it's not being able to eat balanced meals because we can't afford to buy everything needed to eat balanced meals. Of course, that happens after we've dropped cable/satelite tv, internet, extra cell phones and land line phone extras.

 

We consider ourselves to be struggling because after paying the bills and buying groceries we have no disposable income. We haven't been to a movie theater in years. We don't have money to just go replace an appliance that quits or fix one of our almost 20 year old cars if it breaks.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What I would consider poor in the U.S. would not even close to what I would consider poor in the Philippines. (Or somewhere else - but my experience is with the Philippines).

[Peela]

I used to live well before the poverty line and on welfare, have even been a street person, and i never considered myself poor- but I did feel it was somewhat of a choice, since I was young and I felt it was just a stage. In other words, I didn't feel trapped there- I was optimistic about my future.

 

Feeling poor and being poor are 2 different things. Being really poor, is struggling to feed the family properly and keep a roof over their heads. Feeling poor is having to downsize against your choice, being in debt and feeling trapped, unable to service the current bills- that sort of thing. Maybe having to sell off things to pay bills, work 2 or 3 jobs. That's relative to how you are used to living. We are feeling poor right now with a huge slew of bills we werent expecting (house repairs on a rental) that we don't have the money to pay- but after selling some things, we will be ok, because we have back up.

Being poor is also having nothing to fall back on except, I guess, welfare, opportunity, and the goodness of other people.

[asta]

Not having a pair of shoes that fit.

 

 

asta

[KristinaBreece]

I used to live well before the poverty line and on welfare, have even been a street person, and i never considered myself poor- but I did feel it was somewhat of a choice, since I was young and I felt it was just a stage. In other words, I didn't feel trapped there- I was optimistic about my future.

 

Feeling poor and being poor are 2 different things. Being really poor, is struggling to feed the family properly and keep a roof over their heads. Feeling poor is having to downsize against your choice, being in debt and feeling trapped, unable to service the current bills- that sort of thing. Maybe having to sell off things to pay bills, work 2 or 3 jobs. That's relative to how you are used to living. We are feeling poor right now with a huge slew of bills we werent expecting (house repairs on a rental) that we don't have the money to pay- but after selling some things, we will be ok, because we have back up.

Being poor is also having nothing to fall back on except, I guess, welfare, opportunity, and the goodness of other people.

 

In every respect but this one, we're only feeling poor. Thanks for the perspective, Peela. :grouphug:

[OnTheBrink]

For me, I think poor in this country means you absolutely must have gov't/charitable assistance to survive.

[Sputterduck]

For me, I think poor in this country means you absolutely must have gov't/charitable assistance to survive.

 

At what point is that? By "survive" what do you mean? Do you mean literal life and death survival?

[Ohdanigirl]

Feeling poor and being poor are 2 different things. Being really poor, is struggling to feed the family properly and keep a roof over their heads. Feeling poor is having to downsize against your choice, being in debt and feeling trapped, unable to service the current bills- that sort of thing. Maybe having to sell off things to pay bills, work 2 or 3 jobs. That's relative to how you are used to living.

 

:iagree: Very well said.

 

As long as I can pay my bills and feed my dc, it all good. If there is no extra money for movies and what not, oh well. All that matters to me is that my dc have tummies full of good food, and a roof over their head. Even if we are all cramped in a small studio, with no cable, cell phones, or Wii. We have to have books though.

 

Danielle

[LizzyBee]

To me, poor is going to bed hungry.

 

I heard Mamie McCullough speak about 20 years ago, and I still remember her saying that she knows she's rich because she's got paint on her house and glass in the windows. For some reason, that line helps me keep money issues in perspective.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I think there is a difference between poor and broke. Broke is temporary. It's tough and very rough but there is a hope that hard work/ good decisions will see it's end. Poor is a helpless, no way out thing. You're just totally beaten down with no way out.

[TheReader]

Lot of good perspective in this thread.

 

Having seen true poverty here in Brazil, I have a way different view of poor than I used to have. The quote someone shared about paint on the walls and glass in the windows.....yep. Or shoes that fit, yep. Or going to bed hungry, truly hungry...yep.

 

I get that poor in the US is different, but for *me* to call myself poor, we'd have to be living out of the car and struggling to even manage rice & beans for meals. Or living out of a shed and struggling to even provide rice & beans. After seeing what we've seen, I truly think any more than that and I'd not feel truly poor. Broke, yes. Wanting to improve our situation, yes. But poor....not so much, not now.

 

If we had some kind of shelter, a single pot and way of heating it, access to clean water and all the rice and beans in the world (and hopefully some veggies/fruit too), I'd know we were not quite poor yet. If any of that was not found or hard for us to obtain, if ever we had to send the kids to bed with empty bellies, or ourselves with empty bellies in order to feed the kids, even if bed was the back of our car.....then I'd think we were poor.

 

I'd have had a different answer before we came to Brazil, though. When we used to have to weigh the budget to see if we could afford to see a movie at the dollar theater once/year....I felt poor. Now I know that is not poverty, no matter what it feels like.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I'd agree that being poor has more to due with lack of potential to earn money rather than lack of money.

 

I have lived through times when I barely had enough money to survive. Once I called in sick to work because they were having a potluck and I didn't have anything I could make, nor any money to buy ingredients. I had a can of peas and some leftover rice until payday. I didn't think I could bring that! :lol: But, I had things going for me so that I was able to get a better job, work several jobs at a time and save up money and improve my lot. This is not possible in many other people's lives. Culture, societal structure, politics and poor health often keep people from ever having the possibility of improving their station in life.

[Tarreymere]

Some people think that with DH working in human services and me staying home and with all of our kids that we are poor. We live in a trailer and have no car. We eat beans instead of meat. We don't have cable. I don't have a cell phone. We don't wear the latest styles. I've never had a manicure.

 

We don't think we are poor. We have a home that we are happy in and that keeps us warm in winter. We have a big old wood stove to snuggle up to. We live in a beautiful area with forest around us and a lake a few hundred feet away. We have good neighbors. We have bicycles. We have food to eat that fills us up and tastes good, and there is enough for seconds. We have decent clothes and shoes. We have computers and wireless internet. We have napster and netflix and Discovery streaming. We have two WOW accounts. I have a kindle that is 3/4 full of cool books that were nearly all free. I have a washer and dryer. How can I be poor?

 

I know some folks who do receive assistance who could do quite well without it if they didn't feel they were 'entitled' to unnecessary things. Like having shoes that cost over a hundred dollars, or a fancy cell phone. I know people who wear the latest styles of clothing, get manicures, have fancy mp3 players with the latest music and still complain about how unfair life is and spend their food stamps on party food. Heck, I gave birth to at least one of them. She is still getting food stamps for the two kids she dropped off at my house that I am raising. She couldn't be bothered to cook, especially from scratch! But the food stamps pay for her subs and her frozen pizzas, her chips and her frozen dinners. In her case, being poor is more her perception than her reality.

 

Real poverty is not having a place to get inside from the cold or the rain. Real poverty is stealing toilet paper from restrooms because you don't have the cash to buy it. Real poverty is being hungry, so hungry you would eat something that tastes unpleasant just to have food in your belly. Real poverty is not being able to have a coat to wear in the cold or a blanket to sleep under at night. I don't think a lot of people who do get assistance have any idea what real poverty is like.

[creekland]

Economically poor, to me, means if something doesn't happen that day/week (job, compassion), then my family will go hungry or without needed medicine. This is contingent upon NOT having just spent money on videos or cigarettes or other non-needs. When I worked at a grocery store I often saw people put back bread or milk in order to afford their cigarettes. That's not poor.

 

This is an example of poor:

 

[wulfbourne]

I grew up thinking that people who had cable or got their hair cut by someone other than their parents were rich, lol. It's funny though, because at that time I didn't think of us as poor. There was always plenty of food, even the occasional treat of ice cream. We could even rent one of the 99cent movies from the rental place once a week, though we stayed away from new releases.

 

There was a point growing up where I felt poor, and that was when we had to go on WIC for a bit in order to have bread or peanut butter. My parents were unable to buy Christmas presents that year, though my brother did get a couple things simply because of the kindness of a stranger. During that winter my parents didn't think they were going to be able to afford to pay the oil for heat, so plans were being made for me and my brother to live with my grandma for awhile. Fortunately they were able to earn just enough to put a small amount in the tank and keep going, but it was really close. When putting food on the table is a struggle and you aren't sure if you can heat your house in winter, that's poor.

 

Where I am now in my life I would feel poor at a different level. I've grown accustomed to having many more things (internet, computer, games, disposable income for movies or eating out). So a drop from my current level would leave me feeling poor for awhile, though I'm sure we'd adapt and our outlook would change accordingly. I'm sure there are also millionaire CEO's who would look at our life and think we're poor, because the feeling can be relative.

[lakotajm]

Real poverty is not having a place to get inside from the cold or the rain. Real poverty is stealing toilet paper from restrooms because you don't have the cash to buy it. Real poverty is being hungry, so hungry you would eat something that tastes unpleasant just to have food in your belly. Real poverty is not being able to have a coat to wear in the cold or a blanket to sleep under at night. I don't think a lot of people who do get assistance have any idea what real poverty is like.

 

OK, this cracked me up because it reminded me of my mom. She has had to confiscate tp to have something to wipe her a#@. :tongue_smilie:And the house we used to live in when I was a teenager had pots on the floor you had to step around because of the leaks. So, yeah, we've been poor-been dumpster diving, gone to bed hungry, etc. Not now, thank goodness. Not well-off, but paying the bills (by selling stuff) and feeding ourselves. But there is definitely an unstability to it that is unnerving. We are farmers and not the big kind. So it is scary.

 

Lakota

[mytwomonkeys]

i define poor as having more bills than money, or as dave ramsey says, "having more month than the cash to get through it".

[Granny_Weatherwax]

When I was growing up I thought we were poor. My clothes were all second hand, purchased from thrift stores or given to me by other people. Many, many times the only food in the house came from church food pantries or government cheese lines. I thought all cheese came in three pound bars and wrapped in a cardboard box. Christmas presents were usually bought at the C&H green stamp redemption store. I thought everyone had to pay for gas first so the guy behind the counter could set the pump to turn off at a specific amount, usually $1.50. I never knew cars could be 'filled'. I was 12 years old before I ever went to a mall. I thought the zoo was owned by the school because the only time I went there was during the spring field trip and there were always busses in the parking lot. Visits to the dentist were rare and a treat. I couldn't wait to get into the treasure chest to pick a toy.

 

Most of all, though, I remember feeling unworthy to go certain places or do certain things; like I wasn't good enough.

 

When DH and I began dating I thought he was rich. He would spend as much as needed to fill the gas tank and he offered me soda and M&Ms. Unheard of!! He would be amused at my naivite and excitement for going through McDonald's drive through. OMH - I remember being so excited about that. He wore Nike shoes, too.

 

I do remember my mother would never apply for welfare or food stamps, although I was on the free lunch program at school. There were a couple of times she had to apply for assistance to pay for electricity and gas during the winter months.

Edited June 3, 2011 by The Dragon Academy

[amy g.]

I really can't say I have ever felt poor. I'm not sure why that is. I put myself through college airbrushing T-shirts and cleaning houses. I paid $100 per month for a futon in the living room of a big house. I cooked for the house in exchange for meals. My roommates bought rice and beans and potatoes and came home to a hot meal of fresh bread and potato soup, so it was a good deal for all of us.

 

Dh was just a friend at that time, but he visited as often as he could to empty the rat traps so they wouldn't crawl on me in my sleep. I didn't have a car, but was grateful for the buses which were free with my student ID.

 

I would never have occurred to me to complain. what was there to complain about? I was having a great time!

 

I guess I'm just too much of a Pollyanna to feel poor. That does not mean I don't believe it exists for other people.

[Desert Rat]

For me, poor is not having enough for the bare essentials-food, utilities, rent, cheap clothes.

[SailorMom]

This reminds me of the book Poisonwood Bible....

The US's version of poor,,,well- in most cases (notice I say most- not all) isn't what the rest of the world considers poor.

 

In US terms - I would say not being able to put gas in my car, not being able to buy food, not being able to keep the electricity and water running....

 

In the terms of many other countries - well - having a car, electricity or running water in the first place wouldn't be possible.... I suppose then - it would be down to basic food and shelter needs, possibly not being ablet oeducate my kids.

[Joker]

I feel I've only experienced being poor once in my life. When I was very young we lived in a run down home that didn't even have the floor finished in all rooms. When it would rain the rodents would come up through the bottom of the house. My dad seemed to be gone all the time working just so we could have that roof over our heads. My grandparents would bring us food and clothes and when they'd leave we'd scourge the couch cushions for change (they usually purposfully left money in there for us to find). My dad was able to turn the situation around before too long but looking back we were still probably what many consider poor for a while but we didn't feel like we were.

[PiCO]

How little would you need in your life to consider yourself poor.

 

I'm curious after looking through the food stamp thread.

 

I would be too poor for my liking if I couldn't buy what I needed when I needed it. (And I would want to be able to buy the stuff I really wanted also.)

 

Yes, I could live without- but this is the USA and I could find a way to make more money if I needed to.

Edited June 3, 2011 by PiCO

[littlebug42]

For me, poor is not having enough for the bare essentials-food, utilities, rent, cheap clothes.

 

I agree with this. I grew up with next to nothing. We were not on public assistance but my Mom likely could have qualified. She was a single Mom with no help at all from my Dad. We didn't have much but we had a home and we didn't go hungry. I do not think we were poor. Others likely may have thought so.

[twoforjoy]

I don't really know. We've had many, many years of very little income (we were grad students for the first 5 years of our marriage, and then lived on very little for a few years after that), but I wouldn't have considered us "poor," because our families are middle-class and were able to help us out. We could go to them to get help with the heating bill or rent. We had places to turn.

 

I guess I think "poor" has more to do with resources. You can have little money but a good amount of resources, as we did; our income was well below the poverty line, but we had family who could easily help us out, as well as other channels for helping make ends meet (for example, DH was able to get a housing stipend from his university a few years in a row). But, if you lack money AND resources, then that's a much more difficult situation, and I think that's what I'd consider "poor."

 

I also think it's not very useful to compare "poor" in the U.S. to "poor" in other countries. I mean, on one level, it does help those of us with means to keep things in perspective. I sometimes feel like we lack things we need--we'll soon have three kids in a small two-bedroom apartment, we have one really old car, we make a lot less than most people we know--and remembering how much we have in comparison to most of the world is helpful. However, I don't think it's good or right to compare what the poor in this country have to what the poor in other countries have.

 

Sure, we might think that, since people in other countries don't have clean water, cars and phones are luxuries. However, life in the U.S. is such that it is incredibly difficult in most places to get any job at all without a phone and a car. So I'm not going to say that, because somebody has a place to live and food to eat, they aren't "really" poor. If they lack the things you need to improve your situation, and lack the means to obtain those things, then I do think they are poor, even if by other standards they wouldn't be.

 

I think it's telling that we only apply this "Well, they wouldn't be poor in another country!" standard to the poor. We don't tend to apply it to ourselves. Check out the Global Rich List. My DH and I are, income-wise, somewhere in the 30th-40th precentile of U.S. wage-earners, certainly not wealthy. But we are in the top 2% of the richest people in the world. And yet I don't see many working-, middle-, or upper-middle class Americans arguing that they aren't *really* middle-class, but are really extremely wealthy, since that's their status when compared to most of the world. I think it's very unfair that we always want to compare the poorest in our society to the poorest around the world, as a way of proving that our poor really don't have it that bad, but don't want to make that same comparison of our own status.

[SailorMom]

 

I think it's telling that we only apply this "Well, they wouldn't be poor in another country!" standard to the poor. We don't tend to apply it to ourselves. Check out the Global Rich List. My DH and I are, income-wise, somewhere in the 30th-40th precentile of U.S. wage-earners, certainly not wealthy. But we are in the top 2% of the richest people in the world. And yet I don't see many working-, middle-, or upper-middle class Americans arguing that they aren't *really* middle-class, but are really extremely wealthy, since that's their status when compared to most of the world. I think it's very unfair that we always want to compare the poorest in our society to the poorest around the world, as a way of proving that our poor really don't have it that bad, but don't want to make that same comparison of our own status.

 

 

Wow - thanks for the link - that is very interresting....

[LizzyBee]

i define poor as having more bills than money, or as dave ramsey says, "having more month than the cash to get through it".

 

I've had clients who make $350k - $500k and meet that definition. I don't think they're poor, just unwise. :tongue_smilie:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Check out the Global Rich List.

 

13.19% :D Not at the bottom!

[JoyfulMama]

I remember being newly married, and excited to be able to buy a large fry pan. (You know, the really nice big, heavy kind that you can cook a whole meal in.) I stood in line at some store, and due to my excitement, I commented to the woman behind me that my husband had finally cleared it for me to buy it. She responded by saying that she didn't need her husband's permission to buy what she needed. She thought I needed permission, but it was the cash that we had been pinching to save that was what dh and I had "cleared" for this purchase. That fry pan was not a need for me, it was a want. I was in grad school, dh was working, and we were trying to save for a house, so every purchase was evaluated.

If I had needed to replace a damaged fry pan and not been able to, well, maybe then I would have felt poor.

 

I've had numerous discussions with my children about what "poor" is. We have eachother. We have a place to sleep, a roof over our heads, and food to put in our bellies. We may not be able to purchase wants every week, but that doesn't make us poor.

[mytwomonkeys]

I've had clients who make $350k - $500k and meet that definition. I don't think they're poor, just unwise. :tongue_smilie:

 

i'd say they're both.

[newbie]

When you cannot pay for food or gas or clothes.

[TheReader]

I don't really know. We've had many, many years of very little income (we were grad students for the first 5 years of our marriage, and then lived on very little for a few years after that), but I wouldn't have considered us "poor," because our families are middle-class and were able to help us out. We could go to them to get help with the heating bill or rent. We had places to turn.

 

I guess I think "poor" has more to do with resources. You can have little money but a good amount of resources, as we did; our income was well below the poverty line, but we had family who could easily help us out, as well as other channels for helping make ends meet (for example, DH was able to get a housing stipend from his university a few years in a row). But, if you lack money AND resources, then that's a much more difficult situation, and I think that's what I'd consider "poor."

 

I also think it's not very useful to compare "poor" in the U.S. to "poor" in other countries. I mean, on one level, it does help those of us with means to keep things in perspective. I sometimes feel like we lack things we need--we'll soon have three kids in a small two-bedroom apartment, we have one really old car, we make a lot less than most people we know--and remembering how much we have in comparison to most of the world is helpful. However, I don't think it's good or right to compare what the poor in this country have to what the poor in other countries have.

 

Sure, we might think that, since people in other countries don't have clean water, cars and phones are luxuries. However, life in the U.S. is such that it is incredibly difficult in most places to get any job at all without a phone and a car. So I'm not going to say that, because somebody has a place to live and food to eat, they aren't "really" poor. If they lack the things you need to improve your situation, and lack the means to obtain those things, then I do think they are poor, even if by other standards they wouldn't be.

 

I think it's telling that we only apply this "Well, they wouldn't be poor in another country!" standard to the poor. We don't tend to apply it to ourselves. Check out the Global Rich List. My DH and I are, income-wise, somewhere in the 30th-40th precentile of U.S. wage-earners, certainly not wealthy. But we are in the top 2% of the richest people in the world. And yet I don't see many working-, middle-, or upper-middle class Americans arguing that they aren't *really* middle-class, but are really extremely wealthy, since that's their status when compared to most of the world. I think it's very unfair that we always want to compare the poorest in our society to the poorest around the world, as a way of proving that our poor really don't have it that bad, but don't want to make that same comparison of our own status.

 

Speaking only for myself here, but I do personally feel very wealthy now, having seen what true poverty is. It would take a lot less wealth to make me feel wealthy these days (even though by US standards we are nowhere near), just as it takes a lot more to make me feel poor now (again, even if by US standards we'd get there much sooner).

 

Truly. We have no cable, have only basic cell phones (pay as you go), one car, no land line, and the cheapest internet that still allows us to use skype to video chat with the grandparents. We buy our curriculum used. Yet we have money in savings, are getting out of debt quickly (note that we are not yet out of debt) and are able to travel (by driving, staying in cheap places, and if we fly we use airmiles earned in dh's travel for work). I feel very wealthy, and dare I say, yes, even rich. Even though by US standards we are nowhere near. But having seen the poverty I've seen, yes, my perspective in both directions has changed.

 

Not sure I'm explaining it well, but for me, for my position and thought on myself, I do apply it both directions. And I did state in my original post that this is what it would take for ME to feel poor, not a standard I hold up for anyone else.

 

Certainly it's a hardship in the US to live without things that are luxuries elsewhere; I'm not denying that. But the question asked was what would it take for YOU to feel poor, and that is the question I answered. What it would take for me to consider myself poor, not at what measure do I judge someone else to be poor.

[LizzyBee]

 

Most of all, though, I remember feeling unworthy to go certain places or do certain things; like I wasn't good enough.

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, have you gotten over that feeling?

 

About 8 years ago, I went to an accounting conference in Hilton Head. As we were driving up to the island, the houses were huge and the palm trees were perfectly shaped. I remember putting my hand on dh's arm and saying, "Oh honey, we don't belong here!"

 

And then a couple years ago, we stayed at the Intercontinental Buckhead in Atlanta for another accounting conference. This is the kind of hotel where people wear their "little black dresses" as casual wear and there is a floor reserved for celebrity guests. Again, I felt like we didn't belong there. Not that I wouldn't go back - that was the best hotel I've ever stayed at! But it was an uncomfortable feeling.

Edited June 3, 2011 by LizzyBee

[NicAnn]

Poor for us, is my DH using two PTO days because we couldn't afford gas in the car to get him to work.

We are poor, buy almost anyone's standards...but we rarely feel like it. Our house is a rental and quite small, but it's clean and decorated. I spend several hours a week saving us money, and that's one reason we do so well for our income level.

Dh and I have been poorer in our life, but we are a happy family...we spend almost all our free time together and really get quality time together.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Just out of curiosity, have you gotten over that feeling?

 

 

No, I struggle with it all of the time.

[*********]

Well, I'd *like* to say that to me, being poor means that dh and I cannot provide adequate food, shelter, clothing, access to hygenic needs (such as clean water and a way to clean hands/clothes etc. to prevent disease), needed medical care for ourselves and our children, as well as access to at least one Bible from which to read/teach our children on a regular daily basis. These are the basic needs that I wish everyone, regardless of where in the world they live, had access to.

 

However, if I were to be truly honest, I doubt that if my family had just those basics, I still wouldn't consider us poor. I probably would. Having lived my entire life here in the US, I struggle to really understand true povertry. Even with all of the personal ministry dh and I have had with the homeless in our community, I struggle to believe that TRUE poverty exists in our country. I have yet to see even a homeless person in our community who does not have some way to access the basic things I listed. I'm not saying that there is NO WAY anyone could ever truly lack those things here in the US; I just haven't seen it.

 

I truly desire to fully learn to be content with less, by choice or circumstance. The Lord is so good to us; we have so many blessings!

 

My dh very well may have an opportunity to work for his company's location in India on a one year basis here in the next few years. I really pray that happens; it could be a good opportunity for all of us, including my boys, to see what real poverty is. (Not that all of India is in poverty, not at all. But I'm rather sure that if we seek it out, we can find people there who do not have those basic needs I listed. God willing, we will be able to minister to them. Now THAT would be a blessing. :001_smile:)

[Retired]

Not having a pair of shoes that fit.

 

 

asta

 

Oh I can so relate. My worst year was 7th grade. I had to wear my dad's old athletic shoes with tissue stuff in them. I got tired of that so I wore those old 50 cent flip flops all winter. The strap use to pop out of the bottom so I had to keep tapping them up that winter. (oh and I live in the south we have 40 degree winter so it wasn't like I had snow to walk through) but it was rough being a poor teen.

[OnTheBrink]

At what point is that? By "survive" what do you mean? Do you mean literal life and death survival?

 

Poor is not having the skills and ability and mindset to provide your own survival needs.

Anything above survival is want.

 

Of course part of being poor is not understanding the difference between a need and a want. Soda is not food, therefore not part of survival needs - it is a want.

 

I would feel poor if I was in Joplin now and my garden and food stores were wiped out, as well as my shelter. But, I know my relatives would help me with hunting and shelter, so I am rich in that I have the skills of relationship building and prioritizing the individual/group needs.

 

I think there is a difference between poor and broke. Broke is temporary. It's tough and very rough but there is a hope that hard work/ good decisions will see it's end. Poor is a helpless, no way out thing. You're just totally beaten down with no way out.

 

Economically poor, to me, means if something doesn't happen that day/week (job, compassion), then my family will go hungry or without needed medicine. This is contingent upon NOT having just spent money on videos or cigarettes or other non-needs. When I worked at a grocery store I often saw people put back bread or milk in order to afford their cigarettes. That's not poor.

 

This is an example of poor:

 

 

The above posts define what I mean.

 

When I was growing up I thought we were poor. My clothes were all second hand, purchased from thrift stores or given to me by other people. Many, many times the only food in the house came from church food pantries or government cheese lines. I thought all cheese came in three pound bars and wrapped in a cardboard box. Christmas presents were usually bought at the C&H green stamp redemption store. I thought everyone had to pay for gas first so the guy behind the counter could set the pump to turn off at a specific amount, usually $1.50. I never knew cars could be 'filled'. I was 12 years old before I ever went to a mall. I thought the zoo was owned by the school because the only time I went there was during the spring field trip and there were always busses in the parking lot. Visits to the dentist were rare and a treat. I couldn't wait to get into the treasure chest to pick a toy.

 

Most of all, though, I remember feeling unworthy to go certain places or do certain things; like I wasn't good enough.

 

When DH and I began dating I thought he was rich. He would spend as much as needed to fill the gas tank and he offered me soda and M&Ms. Unheard of!! He would be amused at my naivite and excitement for going through McDonald's drive through. OMH - I remember being so excited about that. He wore Nike shoes, too.

 

I do remember my mother would never apply for welfare or food stamps, although I was on the free lunch program at school. There were a couple of times she had to apply for assistance to pay for electricity and gas during the winter months.

 

No, I struggle with it all of the time.

 

I know how you feel; when I was pregnant with my son, I lived in a shelter for pregnant, homeless women. I remember feeling unworthy of walking around the mall just for the exercise. Like, someone would know I was living in the shelter and would ridicule me or something. It's a hard feeling to get over.

 

But, Dragon Lady, after having spoken with you at APACHE, I can tell you that you do NOT have anything to feel unworthy about. You belong anywhere you want to be. To quote a wise philosopher, "You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people like you!" :grouphug:

[Granny_Weatherwax]

But, Dragon Lady, after having spoken with you at APACHE, I can tell you that you do NOT have anything to feel unworthy about. You belong anywhere you want to be. To quote a wise philosopher, "You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people like you!" :grouphug:

Thank you for those kind words. :grouphug:

[mcconnellboys]

I'm not sure that we in America truly know what poverty is. I would equate living in a makeshift cardboard and scrap contraption of a house within a landfill, and churning garbage for my food and living (as occurs in many of the mega-cities throughout Asia) with being truly poor.

 

I would equate living in a mud hut in a drought stricken part of Africa with poverty.

 

I would sort of equate homelessness with poverty, but the guys we serve at Room At the Inn here all seem to have cell phones and connections to get most anything they want. Some are carrying guitars around with them. They visit friends who do have homes and stay with them at times. They know where their next meal is coming from; some even work. The definition of poverty here becomes confusing for me....

 

I've tried to bring fresh, just picked organic produce to families in a women and children's program for the past couple of summers. I deliver to their door. I can't get them to answer their phones; they give me a run around about what to bring and when to bring it; they're often not there when I come (at the time they tell me to come); and many turn up their noses because the produce is not sparkling and perfect and gorgeous like in a commercial....

 

I don't know - I'm old. I think poverty is waaaaaayyyy different than when the last generation of my family all grew up during the depression years. I grew up with tales of that kind of poverty. It is not at all the same as poverty now....

[Sputterduck]

To me, poor is going to bed hungry.

 

I heard Mamie McCullough speak about 20 years ago, and I still remember her saying that she knows she's rich because she's got paint on her house and glass in the windows. For some reason, that line helps me keep money issues in perspective.

 

 

I love that. It highlights that what we may take as essentials weren't essentials very long ago. People lived full happy lives without things like... floors or... more than one outfit or... appliances.

[PIE!]

What would it take for ME to feel poor? My answer has changed over the years. I used to think I was poor since my clothes were all third and fourth hand, we didn't have cable, the cars were always breaking down, both my parents worked, and ordering pizza was a rare luxury.

 

Then, like so many that have posted already, I moved out of America. With our living conditions there (wearing worn out clothes, no car, only having 3-4 outfits each, losing weight because we didn't have enough money for food) my family thought we were in the depths of poverty. But I felt so rich. We had a place to live, and we did have food, just not as much as we used to. My kids were happy with the toys we made for them out of cardboard.

 

And many of the people there that we thought were poor, didn't feel so themselves. I remember talking to a lady at church, who during regular conversation would have to explain a few things to us Americans so her stories would make sense - like how they had to go to bed early because they didn't have electricity, or how all five of them shared a bed, or how she hand sewed her kids' clothes, or how she never saw a doctor during pregnancy. She wasn't complaining, just giving a side note so we could laugh at the joke she was telling us. She didn't feel poor.

 

I've met even poorer people who slept on the floor of a mud hut infested with centipedes, who ate mud because it's all they had. They were hungry for sure, and were always happy to get something to eat, but they did not have the attitude of being poor.

 

So I guess feeling poor is entirely a matter of attitude. I don't feel poor like I did when I was younger. Even when we were back in America and had food stamps and medicaid for a little while I didn't feel poor. I don't quite know what it would take for me to feel poor at this point - probably extreme hunger and no shelter. Or maybe seeing my children waste away. There is always help in America, so unless we move out of the country again, I don't think I'll ever really know what my feeling poor threshold is.

[creekland]

I think many people on here are equating poverty with lack of happiness, which then means having more money = happy.

 

The two don't go together at all. Poor people can be very poor, yet happy, and the richest people with all the toys can be very unhappy.

[3Blessings]

I have never posted here before because all of you have so much wisdom and I am a newbie, but my family and I have been living in Indonesia for three years and I can tell you that the poor we see here is much different than the poor in the US. Some of the difference is the attitude- there is no way that these people can get cars, phones, etc. They don't expect to have it. There is little to no crime and drug use that typically comes with poverty. Some of that is because this is a Muslim country, but some of it is because the credit and social services we depend upon simply does not exist here. All their friends, family, and neighbors are living in the same situation they are. Just to give you an idea regarding standards of living: most of the people we would call lower middle class make about 100 dollars/month. PER MONTH.

 

Lest you believe that this is enough for here, consider that most of these folks live in one room homes and eat rice and veggies for every meal. There is no "keeping up with Joneses". There is simply survival. And this is for the lucky folks that have jobs. And forget about health care.

 

When there is no safety net- neither government, nor social- this is poor.

[learningmama]

Where I am now in my life I would feel poor at a different level. I've grown accustomed to having many more things (internet, computer, games, disposable income for movies or eating out). So a drop from my current level would leave me feeling poor for awhile, though I'm sure we'd adapt and our outlook would change accordingly. I'm sure there are also millionaire CEO's who would look at our life and think we're poor, because the feeling can be relative.

 

I think third world country poor vs American "poor" are two different animals obviously. I like the quote above. My in-law's and brother-in-law make decent money and always want the newest electronics, home improvements, drive foreign cars. They're not rich and have much debt. My husband and I always joke that they must think we live the most awful lives. We've always rented places to live that are less than 1000 sq ft, our kids share a bedroom (always rented 2-bedroom places), our car is an eleven-year-old small Ford (our previous car was a 17-year-old Ford), we don't eat at nice restaurants (just the occasional McDonald's), our cell phone is old, our tv is old, our furniture is old (hand-me downs from the in-laws),don't have good health insurance, we shop at Walmart/Goodwill/yard sales, etc.

 

We are not poor. Have way too much stuff to be poor. We are able to save money for future uses. Do we live the "American dream". NO, nor do we want to. But I know people with more $ look at us and think, "Ugh, what a wretched life." Someone from Mexico may look at us and say, "That would be a wonderful life."

[creekland]

I have never posted here before because all of you have so much wisdom and I am a newbie, but my family and I have been living in Indonesia for three years and I can tell you that the poor we see here is much different than the poor in the US. Some of the difference is the attitude- there is no way that these people can get cars, phones, etc. They don't expect to have it. There is little to no crime and drug use that typically comes with poverty. Some of that is because this is a Muslim country, but some of it is because the credit and social services we depend upon simply does not exist here. All their friends, family, and neighbors are living in the same situation they are. Just to give you an idea regarding standards of living: most of the people we would call lower middle class make about 100 dollars/month. PER MONTH.

 

Lest you believe that this is enough for here, consider that most of these folks live in one room homes and eat rice and veggies for every meal. There is no "keeping up with Joneses". There is simply survival. And this is for the lucky folks that have jobs. And forget about health care.

 

When there is no safety net- neither government, nor social- this is poor.

 

:iagree: I'm not there, but I agree with what you've described. Thanks for posting.

[I.Dup.]

I'm not sure that we in America truly know what poverty is.

 

I agree. I can't even attempt to answer. I'm sure many people would consider us "poor" but we certainly do not feel poor.

[I.Dup.]

Poor people can be very poor, yet happy, and the richest people with all the toys can be very unhappy.

 

Totally agree. A guy I knew that ran a car dealership in San Diego and made a ton of money and had a ton of stuff said he was just miserable, the more stuff he had the more burden he felt.

[desertmum]

Being poor to me is when you have no where to live and have to rely on family or strangers for a place to sleep. BTW, this is a sure fire way of finding who your real family and friends are!