Why Chinese mothers are superior?

[kalanamak]

Oy vey!

 

 

And now she is a professor of pathology, and married her Quickie salesman.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I just told my kids to be happy they weren't born Spartans.

 

 

I often ask my son, when times seem tough, if he would also like a fox to tuck in his tunic. :D

[LibraryLover]

OT, but not. lol

 

 

[Guest]

I just wonder what they would do with a child who had special needs. I shudder to think what that Chinese mom would do to an Autistic child. It makes me want to cry. :crying:

 

This was my thought exactly.

[Mejane]

What I do have a problem with is the number of times that I have been told how "culturally sensitive" and respectful I need to be of something like Shari'a law being practiced in the US

 

I understand, and I'm culturally insensitive as well with regard to not respecting that so-called "law." :glare:

[Saille]

The one thing I did notice was how much these kids cheated. With so much being expected of them to learn and so little time to learn it and mostly in the hours when they were exhausted - every time I gave a test I would catch a bunch of them copying answers they had written down and hidden somewhere. They knew they needed an A but it was not possible for them to get an A in so many different subjects. So in reality - not all of their A's were real A's - they cheated to get them. The schools knew they did this and allowed it - because they knew if the kids didn't get good marks they would be pulled out of school and sent to a "better" one - so they let them cheat to keep enrollments.

 

I wouldn't use the Chinese method on my child at all - I would rather they failed or got a lower grade on their own then get an A via cheating.

 

This made me think of the Spartans, and the idea that boys in training were supposed to steal food...they were only in trouble if they got caught, b/c they were incompetent enough to get caught in the first place.

[Laurie]

I just wonder what they would do with a child who had special needs. I shudder to think what that Chinese mom would do to an Autistic child. It makes me want to cry. :crying:

 

I know someone who adopted her twin daughters from China, and both have autism. I guess the Chinese can be thankful that there are "inferior" American mothers willing to take these children born with two strikes against them.

[Audrey]

Interesting article and I see from the posts that many will see this an a mini-instruction manual of some sort.

 

As to "superior" -- I'm not in parenting for the competition. She can have it.

[Impish]

Ridiculous and abusive. What happens to the child who doesn't excel? Are they then permanently 'garbage' ? What happens to the child who is emotionally intelligent and not academic ? Is this woman seriously suggesting there are no burnt-out, deliquent, depressed or suicidal children raised in these conditions ? Children are not machines to be honed.

 

A newspaper here recently interviewed a Chinese mother who was concerned about this approach and requires her children to balance their studies with - gasp! sport! drama! - she has seen the pain this approach (in the article ) has caused to families in her own community.

 

 

Absolutely offensive. I'm tired of being told how lousy permissive westerners must be. I don't care what culture you come from - being told "lose weight fatty" by your own parent would be devastating.

 

Can you tell I'm angry ??? I hope this article was some kind of joke.

:iagree:

The article explains, to a tee, why many of our children will be working for her children in the decades to come.

 

The touchy-feely attitude we display towards our children does them little good and much harm. I do not advocate a lack of love or affection but I certainly advocate pushing children and holding them to standards.

 

Children will rise or fall to meet expectations.

 

We need less of the "counselor/psychobabble" attitude and more of the "football coach".

:iagree:

I just told my kids to be happy they weren't born Spartans.

:lol::lol:

Anyway, the understanding is that Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying them and making them proud.

 

Funny, my MIL has the same reasoning, and she isn't Chinese. She adopted.

 

I'm shaking my head over the article. Just...wow.

[Impish]

Interesting article and I see from the posts that many will see this an a mini-instruction manual of some sort.

 

As to "superior" -- I'm not in parenting for the competition. She can have it.

:iagree::iagree:

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Let's not get ourselves wrapped up in a discussion of the horrible moms in China who won't keep daughters or less than physically/mentally capable children. In the present day, this has less to do with being a cruel parent than with the laws enacted by the communist government. Having a son is like having social security. That is their old age pension. Their culture keeps it that way and the laws force them to give up children. It wasn't that long ago here in the West that we hid "imperfect" children away from society so let's be careful throwing those stones. It may not be fair or right but it is, unfortunately, the reality of their lives.

[Guest]

I disagree. I like to do LOTS of things I'm not any good at and always have:

 

I loved playing the viola (one year of public school orchestra class in 6th grade - no private lessons, practicing 20 minutes a day. Definitely not "good" at it.)

 

I loved butterfly long before I could really do it and I never got to the Michael Phelps class.

 

I like cooking, baking, sewing, knitting, foreign language, drawing, faux painting, piano, etc. and never even had a lesson in any of those.

 

Surely, everyone can think of something they enjoy doing that they aren't any good at.

 

This was one of the things that caught at me. Dd has always been the kind of kid who "takes" to something right away, way before she can be "good" at it. This includes both academic and non-academic things.

 

What also came to mind is Alexander McCall Smith's wonderful accounts of the Really Terrible Orchestra in Edinburgh -- a group of people who work other jobs by day but who truly love music and playing instruments even though they readily acknowledge that they suck at it. They practice together as often as they can, and hold concerts -- have even been to New York upon invitation. They're an inspiring example of amateurs finding enormous pleasure in an activity they are not conventionally "good" at doing.

 

John Holt also has a lovely book about taking up the cello at age fifty, and pursuing it for love, without any ultimate aim other than the pleasure it gives him.

[Murphy101]

Didn't read all 8 pages.

 

I agree with the majority of what she says, even if I don't parent the same way.

 

She is right, IMO, our society does tend to view children as weak and fragile emotionally and mentally. Tippy toe and use only nice words (even if they are platitude BS) because to do otherwise is abusive. Our society values pleasure and whatever comes easiest over hard work.

 

I didn't think she was abusive either. She sure wasn't a sweet and meek honey kind of mom, but sometimes that is not the mom a kid needs.

 

I would also agree that children owe their parents to some degree. I think the notion that children have no responsibility towards elders, especially their parents is a sad statement of our society. It's not about debt. It's about honoring them.

 

I don't know what the lady in the article would do if one of her children were special needs. But that isn't what the article was about either. In fact, that question bolsters her POV. In her POV, Chinese mothers don't presume special needs. They presume the child can do it and will work with them until they do. In America, we trot out a dozen or more reasons for why a kid can't do it and why it would be wrong of us to expect them to do it.

[Laura Corin]

Let's not get ourselves wrapped up in a discussion of the horrible moms in China who won't keep daughters or less than physically/mentally capable children. In the present day, this has less to do with being a cruel parent than with the laws enacted by the communist government. Having a son is like having social security. That is their old age pension. Their culture keeps it that way and the laws force them to give up children.

 

If you have a disabled first child in China, you are allowed by the government to have a second one. You do not need to give up that first child in order to have a second.

 

Laura

[LibraryLover]

If you have a disabled first child in China, you are allowed by the government to have a second one. You do not need to give up that first child in order to have a second.

 

Laura

 

 

That's what I thought.

 

And I also don't think one Chinese mother's story is representatives of all mothers. There are plenty of people doing things in their own way, and plenty of people who reject their parents' way.

Edited January 8, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Laura Corin]

Very often, with my children, I have seen 'miraculous' improvement in their ability to accomplish difficult tasks if we just waited a few hours. That which was impossible at midday became possible at 4pm. Perhaps the screaming, threats, drama were just not necessary: she could just have come back to the task later. That's not giving up: it's allowing the mind and body to process the new task.

 

Laura

[CAMom]

I've only read through page 10 so far but that article made me sad. I agree with the posters looking for a balance: a loving home with high expectations.

 

You know I'm a Christian with God as my Father. I cannot imagine Him berating me because I "fail" every day. Yes, He is "strict" and his "expectations" are high. But those are tempered by His great love for me and His tender forgiveness keeps me motivated. He doesn't call me a loser or send my meager prayers back to me to perfect.

 

He loves me enough to expect more but knows me well enough to not shame or berate me.

 

That's the parenting paradigm I want to emulate.:)

[helena]

I think the legacy of communism and pride have warped a great concept in China. I agree with a lot of the criticisms of "western parenting", but I don't think the Chinese are selling anything better. One of my best friends (who's from China), called me just last month crying that her visiting mom is yelling at her telling her she's "trash" :001_huh:.

Most of my friends are asian, and in my (for what little it's worth :001_smile:) opinion, communism seems to squash the warm and fuzzies out of a lot of people (although this is less of an influence with younger generations). That combined with a "saving face/bragging rights" pridefulness of parents is scary. I wonder how much of the "I'd do anything for my child" is actually about themselves and what it reflects about them as a parent.

 

Shame based parenting is the pits for kids. I think it creates a lot of adults who never feel good enough, even long after they've earned success. Life is to beautiful too be on that sinking ship..

And, I do think that here in the states a least, we'll be seeing a much healthier version of "Chinese parenting" in the upcoming generations. I think it could all balance out nicely. I mean here in our city, there are huge numbers of asian kids on the sports teams. Football jocks are Korean, chinese... 2nd generation, 3rd generation... it's different than 1st gen.

 

That said, my husband and I have stayed on living in a (mostly asian) town as opposed to moving back to Laguna Beach where our family is, because we benefit so much by living in this culture.

I've been asked many times why we stay when the only real reason to be here are the excellent public schools. We stay (as homeschoolers) because their peers are smart, polite, hard working, proper type kids. The families have all their problems behind closed doors, but outwardly most around here are very optimistic about their kids futures. Most will go on to university, most even if they rebel in high school will pull it together eventually and do well.

 

My husband and I are artists, my husband works in the music industry. We feel that that's enough of that type of influence. I'd like to see what my kids are capable of in this environment, as opposed to how we grew up so free and reckless. Our family is getting the best of both worlds (IMO).

 

I'm just so grateful life has worked out for my husband and I like this. Our kids lives wouldn't be nearly as rich and wonderful, if it wasn't for this intense asian (and middle eastern) influence.

Of course I'll be moving back home as soon as the kids are grown and out of the house. :D

Edited January 8, 2011 by helena

[LibraryLover]

Very often, with my children, I have seen 'miraculous' improvement in their ability to accomplish difficult tasks if we just waited a few hours. That which was impossible at midday became possible at 4pm. Perhaps the screaming, threats, drama were just not necessary: she could just have come back to the task later. That's not giving up: it's allowing the mind and body to process the new task.

 

Laura

 

Scottish children are so coddled. :tongue_smilie:

[helena]

I wanted to also say that we should remember that China is massive. There are all kinds of parenting styles. It's nuts to assume that this is how all moms behave..

[Elaine]

Let's not get ourselves wrapped up in a discussion of the horrible moms in China who won't keep daughters or less than physically/mentally capable children. In the present day, this has less to do with being a cruel parent than with the laws enacted by the communist government. Having a son is like having social security. That is their old age pension. Their culture keeps it that way and the laws force them to give up children. It wasn't that long ago here in the West that we hid "imperfect" children away from society so let's be careful throwing those stones. It may not be fair or right but it is, unfortunately, the reality of their lives.

 

Yes. Thanks for saying it.

[LibraryLover]

I think a Finnish mother should write a counter-point. :bigear:

[Wildiris]

As a piano mommy, I'd have to agree with the tactics use by the author of this piece in the WSJ when she describes a piano practice session with her daughter. I've used these tactics too. An what is more amazing--they work. More surprising is afterwords my DD says the same thing, "Mommy, look—it's easy!" The effect of this "hard core practice"encourages my daughter to work harder. She goes to the piano on her own just to get something right.

 

Being white, my daughters are a minority in our local piano community. The recitals and competitions are dominated by young, excellent Chinese students. These students raise the expected standard to a high level. As much as my DDs complain about this, they too must work to a high level to compete and not be embarrassed at a recital for playing an easy piece.

 

As much as we Americans may disagree with the pressure Chinese mothers and parents put on their children by pushing them to find out what they're capable of by instilling good work habits and self-discipline, I think we should take note of Chinese successes.

 

 

There are some extreme responses to this WSJ piece at the WSJ site ranging from racism to child abuse. To generate such responses gives me the impression that the issue about differences in culture and parenting style is just on the surface and that there must be something deeper here.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Wildiris

[Guest]

Remembering one other odd bit of information I read in the memoirs of an American journalist who lived for a number of years in China with his small children. When he would let his toddler try to open doors or use keys in locks, Chinese parents (and he does make this blanket statement) were aghast that he would let them struggle; they felt very young children should have things done for them that Americans urge kids to do independently early on: this related to eating, dressing themselves, zipping, opening doors, etc. I wonder at what age this changes, whether it's similar to the Japanese relaxed attitude toward very young kids.

[Laura Corin]

Scottish children are so coddled. :tongue_smilie:

 

Tell that to my children. I'm all for achievement, but there may be more efficient ways of achieving it.

 

Laura

[Guest Scott in AZ]

Oy vey!

 

 

I have a semantic issue here. I think you'd be hard pressed to show that "flow" is a "branch of psychology."

 

Sure, it was a slight semantic error. The actual branch is called "positive psychology": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_psychology

 

But flow is one of its fundamental concepts, so I think I was mostly correct.

[Stacy in NJ]

I agree with you there. Not calling my kid an idiot, retard, or spaz (or any other name a kid may hear sometime in her life) isn't walking on glass or teaching her to be a victim, though, nor does it mean I'm over-sensitive to her feelings.

 

I agree with you as well. But calling a kid a harsh name occasionally does not equate to abuse, either. There's a whole lot of middle room for tough love with out abuse and thoughtful parenting without coddling.

 

I was responding specifically to your comment that calling a kid fatty was abuse; it's not.

[Laura Corin]

Remembering one other odd bit of information I read in the memoirs of an American journalist who lived for a number of years in China with his small children. When he would let his toddler try to open doors or use keys in locks, Chinese parents (and he does make this blanket statement) were aghast that he would let them struggle; they felt very young children should have things done for them that Americans urge kids to do independently early on: this related to eating, dressing themselves, zipping, opening doors, etc. I wonder at what age this changes, whether it's similar to the Japanese relaxed attitude toward very young kids.

 

One of my students explained to me that young children were indulged in all things until they went to school. The school beat discipline into them, and the parents loaded on the pressure to succeed in school. This memory dates from around 1990, so things may have changed.

 

For another point of view: I picked up a developmental list for Hong Kong children and it included the ability to use chopsticks at age four. That sounds pretty independent, but I'm sure expectations vary enormously within Chinese Asia and the Chinese diaspora.

 

Laura

Edited January 8, 2011 by Laura Corin

[MelissaCC]

This article reveals a fairly narrow definition of success.

 

It's also racist. Many Chinese and other immigrant parents would be concerned for their child's holistic well-being, just as many Western parents help their children to understand that mastery only comes through effort and practice.

 

I'm surprised people are giving the thumbs up to such a piece. Besides its acceptance of emotional abuse as a way of raising and motivating children, its obviously written to gain publicity - like all 'oh my, I'm so controversial' pieces are - rather than a serious look at what we can all learn from each other culturally.

 

We can disagree about whether calling a child names like 'fatty' is abuse - I think we could all agree that it;s inefficient parenting that is unlikely to achieve the goal of raising a healthy child.

 

There are many incredible things about Western culture and I am tired of hearing it denigrated. Caring about your child's psyche doesn't equate to weak parenting. I'm finding this conversation frustrating, and although there are many people here calling this article out for what it is - abuse - the number of people praising it is truly disturbing to me.

Edited January 8, 2011 by MelissaCC

[Stacy in NJ]

the flexibility and adaptability of Americans. I have much faith that Americans can see that the cult of self-esteem is a cultural cud de sac and will turn around and keep on driving in the other direction.

 

 

The people who created the things you listed above were raised in an environment far more like the Chinese mother than the kids of the last 20+ years. The current generation entering the workforce (18-30 years old) will not be doing what their parents and grandparents did.

[JennyD]

Very often, with my children, I have seen 'miraculous' improvement in their ability to accomplish difficult tasks if we just waited a few hours. That which was impossible at midday became possible at 4pm.

 

Laura

 

DH and I constantly marvel at this, too. I imagine that there must be some kind of neurological explanation, but I don't know what it is.

[Mejane]

I can't imagine calling my kids stupid, fatty, loser or any such name. I'm stunned that anyone thinks that's okay on any level. :confused:

[rwilliams]

:001_smile:

 

Yesterday we were learning a particularly difficult lesson from his Algebra I text (Foerster's) and he had a bit of a melt down. He's pretty used to "getting" it quickly and not really struggling over the material. Yesterday he stuggled for quite some time. He had a tantrum, slammed the book closed, told me how stupid algebra is, and stormed away from the table. I yelled, told him he WOULD RETURN TO THE TABLE IMMEDIATELY, and forced him to continue on with the lesson. After a few more minutes he did get it.

 

I was not and am not a particularly good math student/teacher; he is. I regularly tell him, "If I can get it, you can too."

 

Teaching persistence in the face of struggle is VERY important and is not abuse. When you "get" something that was really difficult, THAT is what builds self-esteem.

 

I agree with this! I think too many parents shy away from confrontation when the going gets tough. I have decided that I can and will be whatever I need to be to teach my child the skills he needs to succeed. I go head to head with him when needed to push past his barriers for success. I have never gone as far as the Chinese Mom but probably pretty far as far as western standards. My reasoning is that when a child is faced with something very difficult and he perservers and masters it, it builds confidence and character for the next challenge. Life may be hard one day and I may not be there. I want him to have the fortitude and resources to meet life! When he was doing poorly in Math, I did not tell him how great he was. When he buckled down and struggled and started making real progress I told him how great he was doing, but he already knew it himself. To me that is what builds self-worth that no one can take away. It is based on his mastery, not another persons opinion.

[Stacy in NJ]

A large group of students from Julliard traveled to China to perform a concert with students from China's most famous music school. According to the American music instructor, the Chinese students on average out classed their American counterparts by a significant margin. They were just better musicians. But, of the top ten of the highest level performers, the ones that approached genius, 7 were American. While I'm sure the parents of these 7 American kids pushed them, I'd wager they didn't experience the same type of pressure that the Chinese kids did.

 

 

This is an interesting article if not shocking. I'm new to these boards, my wife tends to spend more time on them. But when she told me about this article it immediately reminded me of a book that contradicts this article almost directly:

 

The book is called Flow:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Flow-Psychology-Experience-Mihaly-Csikszentmihalyi/dp/0060920432

 

Which is a branch of psychology that is interested in how to obtain the optimal experience - when you immerse yourself in an activity so thoroughly that you lose track of time. Numerous studies have found that certain kinds of people have the ability to enter flow almost at will. And there are certain ways parents can raise their child so they are more able to enter flow.

 

Wikipedia talks about flow here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

 

"According to Csíkszentmihályi, flow is completely focused motivation. It is a single-minded immersion and represents perhaps the ultimate in harnessing the emotions in the service of performing and learning. In flow the emotions are not just contained and channeled, but positive, energized, and aligned with the task at hand. To be caught in the ennui of depression or the agitation of anxiety is to be barred from flow. The hallmark of flow is a feeling of spontaneous joy, even rapture, while performing a task."

 

I actually read the book above and blogged about it - this blogpost is especially relevant:

 

http://tempeturleymusings.blogspot.com/2009/11/flow-families-teenagers.html

 

"Unconditional acceptance is especially important to children. If parents threaten to withdraw their love from a child when they fail to measure up, the child's natural playfulness will be gradually replaced by chronic anxiety. However, if the child feels that his parents are unconditionally committed to his welfare, he can then relax and explore the world without fear; otherwise he has to allocate psychic energy to his own protection, thereby reducing the amount he can freely dispose of. Early emotional security may well be one of the conditions that helps develop an autotelic personality in children. Without this, it is difficult to let go of the self long enough to experience flow.

 

Love without strings attached does not mean, of course, that relationships should have no standards, no punishment for breaking the rules. When there is no risk attached to transgressing rules they becoming meaningless, and without meaningful rules an activity cannot be enjoyable. Children must know their parents expect certain things from them and that specific consequences will follow if they don't obey. But they must also recognize that no matter what happens, the parents' concern for them is not in question."

 

What I fear is that this kind of "Chinese" parenting will lend itself toward an anxiety inducing child experience which is a barrier to flow.

 

You need discipline and consequences, but you also need unconditional love and support.

 

I think there are valid points in this article, but largely I pretty strongly disagree. Parenting so children know how to enter flow, I find to be a concept that resonates.

 

Ultimately, our children will succeed if they find activities that will lend themselves to flow - that obssessive focus, playing the violin for hours out of pure joy - that is the superior path - in my view.

[CLHCO]

.

Edited January 9, 2011 by CLHCO

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

If you have a disabled first child in China, you are allowed by the government to have a second one. You do not need to give up that first child in order to have a second.

 

Laura

 

 

Thanks for the clarification-that was not what I had heard.

[MelissaCC]

Children quite often wish to please those who abuse them. I really question whether the daughter's outer behaviour - 'taking it well' matches her inner dialogue.

 

Everyone, stop running down your own culture!! America is wonderful - and I'm not even American. We can learn from other cultures but let's not denigrate our multi-focused way of raising children.

 

I'm sure there are many people from other cultures who could suggest ways of improving our own in a way that is not abusive to children.

[Audrey]

I can't imagine calling my kids stupid, fatty, loser or any such name. I'm stunned that anyone thinks that's okay on any level. :confused:

 

You have lucky kids.

 

I could tell you how even a kid who is used to "sucking it up" and is a generally tough little cookie is hurt in ways they can't begin to express from being called names by their own parent. No slap could possibly sting harder.

[LisaKinVA]

You have lucky kids.

I could tell you how even a kid who is used to "sucking it up" and is a generally tough little cookie is hurt in ways they can't begin to express from being called names by their own parent. No slap could possibly sting harder.

 

:iagree:

[GailV]

THIS is the major differences between our two cultures. I had a wonderful professor when earning my credential who explained that western families tell their children how smart they are, mostly because we want them to feel good. What happens is kids don't think they have to work very hard, because they were just made "smart." The Asian kids, and I grew up where Koreans were just about the majority population, are never told they are smart. They are praised for their effort and the successes they have based on that effort. They work hard because that is the road to success, not just "being" here, like getting a trophy just for being on the team. THAT concept is the most outrageous bs to ever have been created.

 

 

 

Carol Dweck describes this same idea of praising effort instead of praising ability in her book Mindset: the New Psychology of Success. It's fascinating reading.

[MelissaCC]

This article also ignores current research, which suggests that neither authoritarian or permissive parenting styles work terribly well and that authoritative parenting is the way to go.

 

One of the wonderful aspects of Western culture is that we recognise children as people with human rights. Re-reading this article, two things strike me.

 

Firstly, the denigration of the author's husband and the rejection of his right as a parent to influence the family's child-rearing practices.

 

Secondly, this mother actually deprived her own child of her basic liberties. She 'kidnapped' the child in her own home. Her description of how she deprived the child of basic rights such as that to quench her thirst and to go to the bathroom when needed are akin to control tactics a kidnapper might use.

 

To say - as some have here - that criticism of this woman shows a disrespect for her culture - is ridiculous. Firstly, she has invited the criticism. Secondly, to act and speak as if all aspects of all cultures are equal is a nonsense.

 

Western culture has its flaws but I would far rather raise my children within it than a culture that practices Sharia law or pressures its children academically to the point of suicide for some. I am quite happy to criticise where I see fit.

Edited January 8, 2011 by MelissaCC

[Ibbygirl]

I knew a young woman from Hong Kong who had polio when quite young. She was a point of shame for the family. She was never taken out. She was left in a wheelchair/potty while both parents worked and her younger sibs went to day care/ school. When she moved the US (her father got a job as a cook for some wealthy folks), she had rickets from no milk, NO sun. She was so slumped over she could barely breathe. They enrolled her in school, as was required. The school called in services, she had surgery to put a rod in her spine so she could breathe, and then they started to educate her. She was illiterate in all languages at 12. At 22 she started in an upper rank med school, still the shame of her parents who didn't even come to her graduation. I can tell you she was a love-filled person, but she just loathed the Chinese, and considered the US the savior of her life and soul.

This brings tears to my eyes. I just am heartbroken for those poor children. I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words because it's an emotional issue for me, but I just cannot imagine someone looking at my son and thinking that he is worthless and someone to be ashamed of and abandoned. My son is the bravest person I have EVER met in my life. I have learned so much about "living" from him. I tell my husband all.the.time. that I think we have learned more from our son than we could ever possibly teach him. He is precious to me and I cannot imagine someone just disregarding him entirely as a person and determining that he has no value because he is disabled. He walks in his disability every single day of his life and he does it with joy and cheerfulness. He's truly the bravest, purest, sweetest soul I have EVER known. I can't imagine my life without him.

 

Originally Posted by Ibbygirl

I just wonder what they would do with a child who had special needs

 

There is a lot of heartache in China. One perfect child, usually male, is the burden, no matter if parents wish it to be different.

 

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36037857/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/

 

Pollution is a huge problem:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8257151.stm

It's so sad.

 

I know someone who adopted her twin daughters from China, and both have autism. I guess the Chinese can be thankful that there are "inferior" American mothers willing to take these children born with two strikes against them.

Well even if they are not I am thankful. I'm so glad that there are people who will take these children and give them loving homes. They deserve it. I don't think anybody has the right to say who's life has value and who's doesn't.

[ktgrok]

Very interesting article. Can't wait to see what the Hive has to say about this one...

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_read

 

I had friends with parents like that at the magnet school I went to. Some ended up with ulcers in the 9th grade. Some ended up doing drugs. One had a total nervous breakdown. All from the stress.

 

Yes, the tactics mentioned will make children that fit into a certain category of success. But what is success? Depending on how you define it I would call a child that has no self worth outside of competition with others a total failure.

[Murphy101]

I guess I'm too western or my catholic guilt is not well cemented yet.:tongue_smilie:

 

I was able to read that and see some valid points without thinking she is abusive or superior or feeling a need to change my parenting to being more like her or ignore the many education faults to be found in America.

[eternalknot]

I'm East Asian and grew up in a home like this. So did the majority of my peers. We are all fine, and are no more or less dysfunctional than our Caucasian peers! It does come up in conversation, particularly as we become parents.

 

Of nine total children, my parents raised five professionals (lawyers, doctors, engineers) and a teacher (working towards professorship). Oh, and me :) I'm a flight attendant. They're not thrilled but I went to university blah blah blah to study what they wanted me to. I felt/feel no guilt choosing my career. My youngest sibling is a college sophomore, undecided btwn architecture and med school, parents pushing for med school. We are all accomplished musicians and played sports. Another sibling died midway through med school. Not by suicide fwiw. On that, we seem less depressed than lots of my American peers complain to be.

 

I'm raising my kids more Asian style than American. Their (white) dad approves, probably bc he grew up the same as a child who immigrated here. I thnk it's a generational thing as much as ethnic. We live in a high achieving white area where most kids are raised similarly, though IMO way more coddled and falsely pumped (self-esteem, worth).

 

 

Pardon typos, pls. I'm on my phone and my fingers are fat. Ask my mom ;)

Edited January 9, 2011 by eternalknot

[Heidi]

My stepmother is Chinese. Her and my dad have two boys that are ages 10 and 12. I just visited with them over the new year and we actually talked a lot about methods of education. Her boys are Julliard material when it comes to playing the piano. They are in advanced classes at school and, of course, make all A's. They're great kids; kind and respectful and happy.

She has emphasized academics with them since they were 3. They did "school at home" until they entered Kindergarten and do school every summer with her. In fact, last summer she bought the math book (Algebra) that they would be in this year and made them go through it the summer before school started, so that it would only be reinforcement when they learned it in class. She is amazing and I have learned a lot from her.

However, we disagree on points. I think ideas are more important than math and music. Learning to read and love difficult and beautiful language is important to me. Learning the Great Ideas throughout history is important to me. Learning to recognize truth and love truth is important. Learning how to speak and write those ideas in order to influence others for good, is most important to me. I could care less about my children finishing Calculus by their Sophomore year or how well they can play piano, just as long as they can play. She didn't understand. Just a difference in priorities and a difference in culture; not better or worse.

[Sophia]

Pardon typos, pls. I'm on my phone and my fingers are fat. Ask my mom ;)

 

This made me :lol:.

I love a good sense of humor, thanks for posting.

[Tap]

I will not tolerate being treated like that as an adult....I will not treat my children like that.

 

I am glad I am not of that culture, I can not imagine growing up like that. Who knows at 3yo or 6yo what the child will excel at? What if they pick piano, and the child would have been a great Oboist, but the child was never given the chance? What if the child would have been a great thespian, but the parents decided that only being a doctor, engineer, or lawyer was acceptable? What about diversity among the population? What about enjoying ones career and having a passion for something? Achievement doesn't necessarily equal happiness.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

This article also ignores current research, which suggests that neither authoritarian or permissive parenting styles work terribly well and that authoritative parenting is the way to go.

 

One of the wonderful aspects of Western culture is that we recognise children as people with human rights. Re-reading this article, two things strike me.

 

Firstly, the denigration of the author's husband and the rejection of his right as a parent to influence the family's child-rearing practices.

 

Secondly, this mother actually deprived her own child of her basic liberties. She 'kidnapped' the child in her own home. Her description of how she deprived the child of basic rights such as that to quench her thirst and to go to the bathroom when needed are akin to control tactics a kidnapper might use.

 

To say - as some have here - that criticism of this woman shows a disrespect for her culture - is ridiculous. Firstly, she has invited the criticism. Secondly, to act and speak as if all aspects of all cultures are equal is a nonsense.

 

Western culture has its flaws but I would far rather raise my children within it than a culture that practices Sharia law or pressures its children academically to the point of suicide for some. I am quite happy to criticise where I see fit.

 

 

If you are referring to my posts:

 

First, her reflection on the role of the father is consistent with many cultures where it is seen as the mother's task to parent with a tough love style to produce the results expected by both parents and society. The father may have very little to do with child rearing.

 

Second, I said that I found it ironic that folks on this board argue one minute for respect for another culture and then when presented with someone who argues for the superiority of another culture they get defensive and show no respect for the non-western culture. You can't have it both ways-either we can freely criticize cultures that are not our own or we can't.

 

As far as I am concerned critique away-there are points I can see to both sides based on the article. But your view that all cultures are not equal is not universally shared here. Some of those arguing most vocally that "Chinese" parenting is incompatible with Western values are the same folks who often preach tolerance and understanding of other cultures. It appears that there is only tolerance until their Western values and practices are attacked and called inferior then suddenly the West is where we know the one true way. That is why I find the discussion amusing and ironic.

[jennynd]

I thought it is pretty insulting. I am Chinese. my son has vedio game/play date. He is too young for sleep over, He watches TV like other kids. And frankly, I don't know any Chinese parents in US doing what the article said. Yes, we have high expectation. we teaches kids our way rather than US way after school, becuase US math is total screw up. And poeple here uses singapore math disgree with me. And if that become a crime, so be it.

 

You guys do have to also understand how Asians grow up. Most country are over populated due to most countries are framer based economic. To get ahead, study is the way. When I passed the high school test, I remeber only 14% of us can get in public high school and out of those, only about 30% can get into college, So, there is pressure. And lucky you guys grow in US has all you want and don't have tow work for it, we don't. We have to study and study in hope we can one day get ahead. So yes, I expect huge on my kids. I will tell him how lucky he is. But he almost get plenty privillege that I didn't have.He goes ski, he swimm , soccer . He does play violin, but he told me he want to play violin And In this article, he just uses what his parents treat him to generalize Chinese parents. That is unfair and disgusting. My parents will never ever call me trash or fatty. If his parents treat him lie that, his parents has a problem not all Chinese parents.

This is like if I saw a article a Amercan parents rape the daughter and I summarize all US parents will rape their kids. This article is racist and disgusting