Why Chinese mothers are superior?

[Heather in Neverland]

Very interesting article. Can't wait to see what the Hive has to say about this one...

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_read

[Tap]

:ack2:

[littleWMN]

Um, wow. Is that meant to be satirical?

[Catherine]

Absolutely not. She is serious, and on some level, she is right, even though I believe she is exaggerating.

[SonshineLearner]

I actually see both sides. I know that children and adults can push themselves farther than they/we think is possible. How to inspire? How to "make" when the goin' gets tough. How to motivate when your child has no interest, and yet when they succeed, the perhaps everyone is happy.

I see children who have no inner strength, and adults who have no inner source of power. Not everything is about momentary happiness; there is joy in true fulfillment. What that is... is debatable :)

I could use some more "butt kickin' " techniques.. :) I've experienced the "not too tough" way my daughter is taking... and now my poor little son ;) He's getting more of the "work harder than you thought you could" thing... But... I doubt I would have enough energy for all his school... and 3 hrs of music a day... and more :)

BTW, my parents friends.... the mama is a Chinese Mom. She homeschooled because he was too smart for public, the principal suggested it. Then, he practiced piano and violin... tons a day..... :) He seems happy...

[RoughCollie]

We are close friends with a Chinese family. This article reminds me a lot of them.

[specialmama]

There is a fine line between the two cultures. If only I could walk that line, my children would be perfect! :001_huh::lol:

 

Seriously, those who watched the last Biggest Loser: I wonder what Ada would say about all this? I think she'd have words for this mother and hugs for her children. I think I'd cheer her on! :D

[hsbaby]

Ummm, wow, sounds like a great childhood. I think I will go thank my western parents now for being so "western"!!!!

[littleWMN]

Oh, I agree she's right to a point. But way over the top.

 

One of my best friends in Jr. High was Chinese, having just moved over to the US. Her parents were very strict and she studied hard and played the piano on Saturdays. She got straight A's (in our college prep private school). However, she got to hang out with her friends as well.

 

Never having a playdate or never getting to have a part in a play, etc. sounds over the top IMO.

 

And I'm having quite a day, but I'd love to see her work her "magic" on my daughter with suspected FAS. Good luck with that. If only I were that perfect. :tongue_smilie:

[CLHCO]

I admit, I thought this quote was spot on:

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences.

 

I have quibbles with other aspects of the article, but overall, there was some food for thought at least.

[beachmom]

I know several Chinese (and other ethnic) families. ALL of them have high expectations just like the article but some have a better family dynamic than the other.

 

Worst family example: We were at their home when the mom seemed to be upset with her daughter about something. The mom didn't think she was working hard enough and (in this case it was specifically regarding a chore) she took her daughter out to the garage and screamed (I could hear her in the garage!) at her for a literal 30 minutes. It was ugly! If she did that when company was around, I would hate to be there on a normal day.

 

Good family example: Another family wants great things for their kids. They structure their after school time but also see the value of sports. These kids are doing AP in 9th grade, playing team sports (not superstars in this) and seem to be generally happy. The father specifically says he sees good ideas with both Chinese and Western culture and tries to combine the best of both.

 

Of course, you can always read about AP Frank's mom in the book, The Overachievers.

[Sputterduck]

I am the strictest mother I currently know and I find that abusive.

[sewingmama]

I taught English classes to kids in Korea for a year. It didn't feel right to me that I was still teaching 10yo's at 9.30pm. Public school finished at 3 and then everyone had 2-3 extracurricular classes as well as academic tutoring classes every day after school. None of them were fed dinner till they got home at 10pm and then they had all the homework to do. They kids used to beg me not to give them homework because they already had so much and a lot of the time I agreed and didn't give it to them. I also let them eat in class or would bring a pizza for them because they would be so hungry and there was always someone falling asleep during class too.

 

However none of the kids seemed to have any "problems" due to this. They all seemed very happy, sweet, polite etc.

 

The one thing I did notice was how much these kids cheated. With so much being expected of them to learn and so little time to learn it and mostly in the hours when they were exhausted - every time I gave a test I would catch a bunch of them copying answers they had written down and hidden somewhere. They knew they needed an A but it was not possible for them to get an A in so many different subjects. So in reality - not all of their A's were real A's - they cheated to get them. The schools knew they did this and allowed it - because they knew if the kids didn't get good marks they would be pulled out of school and sent to a "better" one - so they let them cheat to keep enrollments.

 

I wouldn't use the Chinese method on my child at all - I would rather they failed or got a lower grade on their own then get an A via cheating.

[Mercy_Me]

:svengo:Though there was merit to what she was saying, the WAY she "achieved" HER "goals" for her children was abusive. I don't give a rat's behind if the children become brain surgeons, I believe this woman is robbing them of any chance to blossom into their own little selves, instead of trained robots. I seriously thought it was a joke piece at first.:glare:

[Ibbygirl]

I just wonder what they would do with a child who had special needs. I shudder to think what that Chinese mom would do to an Autistic child. It makes me want to cry. :crying:

[Mrs Mungo]

There is a fine line between the two cultures. If only I could walk that line, my children would be perfect! :001_huh::lol:

 

Seriously, those who watched the last Biggest Loser: I wonder what Ada would say about all this? I think she'd have words for this mother and hugs for her children. I think I'd cheer her on! :D

 

That is exactly what I thought. Her relationship with her parents was extremely troubled for the exact reasons cited in this article. It leads many women into other sorts of abusive relationships.

 

Sure, the author has some good points. It is true that you have to practice an instrument a lot before it's fun to play. BUT that doesn't mean you can't have some other kinds of fun in the meantime. Some types of play are extremely healthy and worthwhile for good, sound, non-academic reasons.

[*Inna*]

 

Sure, the author has some good points. It is true that you have to practice an instrument a lot before it's fun to play. BUT that doesn't mean you can't have some other kinds of fun in the meantime. Some types of play are extremely healthy and worthwhile for good, sound, non-academic reasons.

:iagree: It makes me sad that she's been programmed by her parents and now doing the same to her daughters to measure their self-worth by academic achievements. What if for some reason they cannot perform at the level that is acceptable to her? I mean, she can't control everything in their life.

[GypsieFamily]

My old next-door neighbor was a Chinese family. The mum said to me that i was like a chinese mum. I was the only western mum she knew who had high expectations academically of her children. I think it's the expectations that the author and my neighbor describe, not the methods. I would never consider making a child practice music that long; there is too much known about the value of play and free time. When is the child expected to read for pleasure and play if they are at school 6-7 hours, 3 hrs of music, homework and sleeping?

 

I think that the high academic expectations are often synonymous with a classical education, but I wouldn't consider many of us would 'motivate' the way she described.

[MelissaCC]

Ridiculous and abusive. What happens to the child who doesn't excel? Are they then permanently 'garbage' ? What happens to the child who is emotionally intelligent and not academic ? Is this woman seriously suggesting there are no burnt-out, deliquent, depressed or suicidal children raised in these conditions ? Children are not machines to be honed.

 

A newspaper here recently interviewed a Chinese mother who was concerned about this approach and requires her children to balance their studies with - gasp! sport! drama! - she has seen the pain this approach (in the article ) has caused to families in her own community.

 

 

Absolutely offensive. I'm tired of being told how lousy permissive westerners must be. I don't care what culture you come from - being told "lose weight fatty" by your own parent would be devastating.

 

Can you tell I'm angry ??? I hope this article was some kind of joke.

[Abigail4476]

Children have needs that are far more complex than developing superior language, music and math skills. :glare:

 

If your entire approach to parenting is structured around the end goal of creating a prodigy or professor, your tunnel vision can create children who are equally narrow, developmentally speaking.

 

I appreciate the academic achievements of the Chinese. Truly. I borrow from some of the concepts in our house. I agree that we are media-saturated and our children are often overindulged. I believe in discipline of the body and mind. However, "mothering" entails a lot more than academia.

 

This quote implies that Western parents don't prepare their children for the future, let them see what they're capable of, arm them with skills [and] work habits and inner confidence. My children will receive all of the above--without hysteria and threats against doll-houses.

 

"...Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away."

 

And "superior" is a ridiculous word to use.

 

THIS isn't "superior" parenting. Sorry.

 

"...Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once when I was young—maybe more than once—when I was extremely disrespectful to my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless or feel like a piece of garbage.

 

As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the remaining guests."

 

(And, yes--I'm well aware that my predictable objections fit right into the stereotype of Western parenting "concerns." And I'm happy about it. :tongue_smilie:)

 

I hated the article. I could comment further on the silly approach to helping your child learn a piano piece, or the failure of the author to allow her child's father balance the parenting style, but I won't. Narcissism is incurable.

[Laura Corin]

This is a true reflection of what I saw in China. There are always going to be children who fail, however; the article doesn't address what happens to them. In Taiwan, I knew of mentally disabled children who were locked away from sight, too embarrassing for their parents to take out in public.

 

Laura

Edited January 8, 2011 by Laura Corin

[Ibbygirl]

This is a true reflection of what I saw in China. There are always going to be children who fail, however; the article doesn't address what happens to them. In Taiwan, I knew of mentally disabled children who were locked away from sight, too embarrassing for their parents to take out in public.

 

Laura

 

As a mother of two children on the Autism spectrum this absolutely breaks my heart. :crying: I can't imagine how those poor children feel. Those kids all the more need love and care and compassion ay it brings tears to my eyes. :crying:

[lulubelle]

I'd like to hear from the children. They are probably afraid to speak the truth about what they feel for fear of disappointing their parents!

 

I do see and hear this a lot in the town we live in. There is a large Asain population and from what I've heard they drive the stress level at the high school. Many take summer classes at local private schools to be prepared for the next year of school. I also heard of a math teacher having to change the entire years curriculum because all but one kid had already take the class over the summer and he needed to challenge them somehow. The one kid was my dh's friends kid and he just had to keep up.

 

We all want our kids to be successful, but it doesn't sound like from that article we all want our kids to be happy. Balance.

 

I came across a girl working at a kids museum who was from an Asian country. She had been sent to the U.S. for high school. She lived with a host family. I told her we homeschooled and she seemed amazed by it. She said her parents didn't even know her. They just wanted her to get good grades and go to the best college. They argued over the phone alot. They were disappointed that her brother did not get into a better college. I felt so sad for this girl.

[fastforward]

I actually see both sides. I know that children and adults can push themselves farther than they/we think is possible. How to inspire? How to "make" when the goin' gets tough. How to motivate when your child has no interest, and yet when they succeed, the perhaps everyone is happy.

 

:iagree:

 

Fairly recently, I was somewhat hurt by a "friend" who hinted over several occasions that I am too strict of a mother because of the type of homeschooling model that I follow and how I will correct (not shame!) my daughters in public. On the flipside of that, I have another friend who told me that I'm not strict enough, likely because I do not extend our school day late into the afternoon. Which am I, too strict or too lenient? :confused:

 

I think there is some merit in having high expectations of one's child(ren), but this author takes it way too far. I also wonder how much of her book is truth and how much is exaggeration. The exaggeration is the part that will make her book sell. :tongue_smilie:

[Mama Geek]

I am going to make a generalization here and I know those are often not popular.

 

From the business side of things (in the area of engineering) the Chinese are great at working hard and crunching numbers. They had the attitude of if you want something different we will change it and they generally didn't consider the costs of doing this. They wouldn't push back and say no to changes that were being made just to make changes. There are a lot of Americans that are leading the outsourcing work in China.

 

I also think the innovation that we have seen in the US in the past is lacking for the most part in the Chinese culture. Yes, I will push my dd and I will be one of those evil strict parents, but I also want her to enjoy learning and to develop leadership skills.

 

I have worked with folks from China and I think they are really nice, hardworking people, but I think that they don't have all the right answers to education either.

[amy g.]

I have a Louisa whom we call LuLu, and that was physically painful to read.

[Rebecca VA]

Mama Geek, I have heard that also (that Westerners are more creative because we value creativity and independent thought). I think there's truth to it.

 

I wasn't offended by the article, and I'm surprised that so many moms here are so horrified. The Asian young people I know have become very successful -- they will rule in the 21st century. I don't think the writer of the article is abusive at all; I think she understands what her children are capable of and targets them toward that. I do believe there are Asian parents who are abusive and misguided (I'm thinking about AP Frank's mom here), but I've seen too many success stories to discount the Asian style totally. It's not my style, but I'm wondering if my style is really working that well anyway.

 

I have a strong suspicion that when our children reach adulthood, they will be complaining that we parents didn't prepare them for the tough, tough future that lies ahead.

[Peela]

I don't understand how everyone is supposed to be top of the class, and everyone is supposed to get As. How does that actually work in China- because As are fairly meaningless when everyone gets them, surely? And someone has to be bottom of the class- if its all graded?

 

I did find the article interesting and food for thought. I wonder how my son would have done if I had pushed him that hard- he has low self steem around his ability to do school - but I dont think I could have done it. He is going to have to find that motivation in himself when he goes to school, although I will be encouraging him.

 

I find it over the top, but I also find it interesting to see her perspective- I hadnt really heard it first hand before, I had only guessed. Its worse than I thought in one sense, but its too easy to judge. There are how many peopel in China? And India etc? These parents are doing whatever they can to give their child the edge that might give them a half decent life. If you can call it that. But poverty is not glamorous, and that is the culture's background- especially compared to us.

 

I do value the creativity and self expression part of our western culture though- much more than I value that type of so-called sterotypical academic success. I mean, it is nice to have both, but I think I know which way I would rather fall given the choice.

[Word Nerd]

It reminds me of the concept of "mother love" discussed in the novel Snow Flower and the Secret Fan, especially as it related to how a mother could inflict so much pain on her own daughter to bind her feet. I don't want to make too much of a fictional account by applying it to this real-life story, but my mind made that connection because in both cases the mothers are not comforting or tenderly loving their children but painfully molding and disciplining them without mercy or room for error, with the goal of giving them a better life.

[5KidzRUs]

That whole article reminds me of the Oprah show where she invited that famous Brown Eye/Blue Eye Sociologist ... There is just enough truth to make you open your mouth - in either direction - to make you sound racist/nationalist or ignorant :glare:

[bettyandbob]

When I was a teen and into college my father would rant at me that he should have raised me more like the Chinese. I went to a very competitive university, but had no self esteem. My father would never believe this, but he constantly affirmed that I was stupid. I probably did not perform as well as I could have academically because I believed I was stupid. He sent me letters at college that were horrible to read--about how I wasn't good enough. Sophomore year I began burning these letters in the courtyard outside my dorm. I did read them once, then go outside and burn them. There were only 3 careers acceptable to my father, so I never studied what I was interested in. I think I would have been good in the career, but it was completely unacceptable to my father. I wanted to be Physical Therapist. You would have thought I was trying to be a pole dancer. I didn't want to be a doctor, so I went to law school. Now a quarter century out of school I teach sp ed part time and swimming part time. I like what I do, but I often feel like a failure.

 

Like another poster I have observed cheating among Asian students, but I'm not sure it's worse than in high achieving white students. When my older dc returned to school they were placed in GT classes. I live in a very competitive area where parents push and push kids no matter what their race to be the very best. So, I see some difficult behaviors exhibited by my dc's classmates. One of my dc is internally driven to attain the outward achievements (all A honor roll, etc) and one is not. I wish the one who was not performed better, but I know he's achieving in other (unfortunately) less tangible ways. And when I teach swimming, I often have parents arguing with me to put their child ahead. I view swimming as a safety skill, not just some other achievement. It must be mastered before I "pass" someone.

 

I don't what to think about the article. My dad was very strict, but I didn't meet his expectations ever. I wonder if Chinese mothers yelled, spanked and belittled as constantly as my dad. The author gives a few examples, but were those examples daily, weekly, monthly?

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

While there's plenty I don't like in the article, I really do like this paragraph:

First, I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't. They assume strength, not fragility, and as a result they behave very differently.

 

 

 

This is going to stay with me while I think about it. It really got me. I do think I'm assuming fragility where there isn't. (I'm not talking special needs kids, I'm only thinking about my own kids, and how I often back away from pushing them further, as soon as they show resistance.)

 

Hmm, food for thought for me this morning.

[JennyD]

Holy moly, I know her. Wow.

 

I just sent this on to my Chinese-American DH and BIL, as well as my Chinese MIL. My MIL quite consciously did NOT do this (or at least nowhere near as extreme) with her own kids. She and FIL wanted them to be more internally motivated. I'll be interested to see what she says about the article.

[In The Great White North]

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it.

 

I disagree. I like to do LOTS of things I'm not any good at and always have:

 

I loved playing the viola (one year of public school orchestra class in 6th grade - no private lessons, practicing 20 minutes a day. Definitely not "good" at it.)

 

I loved butterfly long before I could really do it and I never got to the Michael Phelps class.

 

I like cooking, baking, sewing, knitting, foreign language, drawing, faux painting, piano, etc. and never even had a lesson in any of those.

 

Surely, everyone can think of something they enjoy doing that they aren't any good at.

[Sevilla]

I'm not overly concerned about 'self-esteem', but I am equally concerned about my children's emotional intelligence just like I am concerned about their intellectual intelligence.

 

I have not seen examples of stereotypical 'high acheiver/high pressure' Asian families produce children who know how to handle failure, mistakes, feelings, and conflict in an healthy manner. I see a lot of shame and fear and dysfunctional relatoinships in those children and parents - especially when it comes to handling imperfection and failure. There is little grace or room to grow (again, speaking of the stereotype the article portrayed and not every family of Asian descent!).

 

As someone who was always in the top 1% of my class and got straight A's in everything, I didn't need to be pushed to succeed - I needed to be taught that 'perfection' is not the ultimate goal or measure of the worth of a person. As a perfectionist and people-pleaser, I needed to be taught how to handle failure in a gracious manner - both in myself and in other people. If I had been ingrained with the values in the article, I would have been an imperious and judgemental person of other people's failures.

 

I don't find the standards listed in the article to be ones that would encourage Christian character either (fruits of the spirit). What if my child is called to a 'less prestigious' field like teaching or social work? What if my brother had a learning disability and was unable to succeed in the typical way? I know of a child from an Asian family who was told that anything less than being a doctor was a failure. Wanting to be a teacher was beneath her, according to her father. What kind of elitist message does that send?

[8circles]

I disagree. I like to do LOTS of things I'm not any good at and always have:

 

I loved playing the viola (one year of public school orchestra class in 6th grade - no private lessons, practicing 20 minutes a day. Definitely not "good" at it.)

 

I loved butterfly long before I could really do it and I never got to the Michael Phelps class.

 

I like cooking, baking, sewing, knitting, foreign language, drawing, faux painting, piano, etc. and never even had a lesson in any of those.

 

Surely, everyone can think of something they enjoy doing that they aren't any good at.

 

:iagree: If this were true I'd never have any fun. I think that there's not "one best way" to raise our children & nobody can follow a recipe for it - our ovens don't all bake the same so to speak. Also, I think the goal of the "Chinese mothers" must be different than mine, & that's something that has to be acknowledged. If these mothers think they've succeeded in raising their children then they have a different definition of success than I do.

[Elaine]

Very interesting article. Can't wait to see what the Hive has to say about this one...

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_read

 

Excellent article.

 

I especially like this part, "‎"I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't."

 

I agree with this statement 100%. We are raising an entire generation of children who cannot cope with any kind of disappointment.

[pqr]

The article explains, to a tee, why many of our children will be working for her children in the decades to come.

 

The touchy-feely attitude we display towards our children does them little good and much harm. I do not advocate a lack of love or affection but I certainly advocate pushing children and holding them to standards.

 

Children will rise or fall to meet expectations.

 

We need less of the "counselor/psychobabble" attitude and more of the "football coach".

Edited January 8, 2011 by pqr

[lamamaloca]

As someone who was always in the top 1% of my class and got straight A's in everything, I didn't need to be pushed to succeed - I needed to be taught that 'perfection' is not the ultimate goal or measure of the worth of a person. As a perfectionist and people-pleaser, I needed to be taught how to handle failure in a gracious manner - both in myself and in other people. If I had been ingrained with the values in the article, I would have been an imperious and judgemental person of other people's failures.

:iagree:

 

Also, this article/mindset presents a very narrow view of "success." The only things worth working on are academics and music? Quite frankly, drama can be a talent, even if it is unlikely to pay later. Likewise with sports. My goad, even if I'm far from it, is to raise well rounded kids, not kids who can only excel in one narrow field and never work on their other abilities.

[Elaine]

The article explains, to a tee, why many of our children will be working for her children in the decades to come.

 

The touchy-feely attitude we display towards our children does them little good and much harm. I do not advocate a lack of love or affection butI certainly advocate pushing children and holding them to standards.

 

I absolutely agree.

[kewb]

Interesting article. When my kids were little there were a couple of chinese children in my ds school. They were typical families to this article. I was always amazed at the amount of pressure on these two 4 year olds.

I was friends with one of the families. I remember her telling me how in China your career is chosen for you. You have no choice at all. I couldn't live that way. I guess they couldn't either because they were living here.

 

I have high academic standards for my kids but I also recognize that academics are not my dd's strength. She can perform as an A student with a lot of pushing but there is no love, no passion. This bothers my dh greatly. It used to bother me. But, I have realized that not being an A student does not mean she will not be a successful person. It is more important to me to foster her independent spirit during these elementary years. She knows the knuckle down years are coming. We have talked about it. While I slowly increase her work load she has the freedom to be who she is. As for my dh, he relaxed a little when I pointed out that there is not a single college that looks at someones elementary school transcript.

[Gratia271]

I wasn't offended by the article, and I'm surprised that so many moms here are so horrified. The Asian young people I know have become very successful -- they will rule in the 21st century. I don't think the writer of the article is abusive at all; I think she understands what her children are capable of and targets them toward that. I do believe there are Asian parents who are abusive and misguided (I'm thinking about AP Frank's mom here), but I've seen too many success stories to discount the Asian style totally. It's not my style, but I'm wondering if my style is really working that well anyway.

 

I have a strong suspicion that when our children reach adulthood, they will be complaining that we parents didn't prepare them for the tough, tough future that lies ahead.

 

:iagree:

 

 

"‎"I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't."

 

I agree with this statement 100%. We are raising an entire generation of children who cannot cope with any kind of disappointment.

 

That is the quote that stood out to me also. I am amazed at how fragile young people are today. They cannot handle constructive criticism, and any failure must be explained away as anything other than lack of performance on their part. People can learn much more from failure than from success. Western parents largely insulate children from failure, taking away the true gratification derived from picking yourself up and trying again until YOU succeed. Handing out trophies to everyone and awarding A's for effort alone is dishonest, and kids see through it. Maybe that is why some kids are insecure. After all, how is someone ultimately going to feel good about himself when he knows he has been handed something? Usually, you hand out things to people who cannot do it for themselves. That is what many Westerners are indirectly communicating to their kids through this approach. How ironic.

 

The whole notion about Western creativity has always interested me too insofar as creativity without competence is largely worthless in the real world.

[Word Nerd]

The article explains, to a tee, why many of our children will be working for her children in the decades to come.

 

The touchy-feely attitude we display towards our children does them little good and much harm. I do not advocate a lack of love or affection but I certainly advocate pushing children and holding them to standards.

 

Children will rise or fall to meet expectations.

 

We need less of the "counselor/psychobabble" attitude and more of the "football coach".

 

I think the author goes well beyond holding children to high standards and into abusive behaviors. You can be a strict parent without calling your kid a fatty and other names or shaming her into compliance.

[Garga]

This explains Jackie Chan's autobiography!

 

In his autobiography, he says that he was a "bad boy" and his parents couldn't control him. So, they sent him to this school for where the children learned how to do aMAZing physical stunts. (If you've seen his movies, you know what sorts of things he can do.)

 

But the children were beaten and starved and outrageously abused at the school in order to teach them these stunts. A number of children died while trying to learn the stunts.

 

In the book, Jackie Chan doesn't seem to see that this school was a monstrosity.

 

After reading that article, I think I understand his mindset. His parents couldn't make him live up to the standards that parents are expected to make kids live up to, so he got sent to the school which beat and killed them into submission. It was all very cultural and accepted.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Garga

[Mejane]

I am the strictest mother I currently know and I find that abusive.

 

:iagree: She obviously hasn't kept up with the latest suicide statistics on highly-pressured kids. I guess if they die with straight-A's, though, it's all good. :glare:

[LisaKinVA]

While overall, I disagree with the methods of motivation, I did take some positive things out of the article (I even shared it with my children, who are currently playing Wii).

 

The value of hard work. The value of self-discipline. The value of pushing yourself more than you think you can. The value of choices.

 

These are all things we are trying to instill in our children (although, I am unsure how no playdates, sleepovers, or being in a play would undermine them).

 

I'm a western momma, but I'm a pretty strict western momma, too!

[8circles]

I think the author goes well beyond holding children to high standards and into abusive behaviors. You can be a strict parent without calling your kid a fatty and other names or shaming them into compliance.

 

I agree. I'm actually surprised that so many here view this mother's behavior as appropriate. You can be kind & still expect greatness, no? I personally don't care how great anyone is if they aren't kind.

[BMW]

Wow. Such points to ponder on both sides of the issue.

 

When I was in middle school I had many asian classmates. They excelled. They rarely "played". My best friend was asian and in 3 years' time, she came by my house about 3 times. She went to another friends' home once for a birthday party. These kids went to school, went home and studied and practiced some musical instrument, they helped make dinner, their homes were close to spotless. I wanted to be like them, actually.

 

Anyway, in our grade there was one white girl who stood head and shoulders above the rest of us. She was smart! One day in art class I heard an asian ask her, "How come you are smart? You are really smart for a white girl." And the girl responded that her grades had started to slip in the 4th grade and her mom made her study every afternoon when she came home from school and now she is smart.

 

I think there can be a solid balance.

 

I know that my two stepsons were raised in a coddled environment. There was never an expectation that they pick up after themselves. Their room was a continual, absolute pigpen. They almost never completed homework. The give up ALL the time when something is difficult. They are very much underachievers. And it is SO entirely sad. I feel much worse for these two boys than for the asians. These boys are really unintelligent in many ways... they are capable and do not really care... I have tried and tried and tried to turn it around. I came into their lives when they were 8 and 10. They still expect to get away with just about anything that they want to do that is against the rules. They expect to run to dad or grandma and fuss when they are made to do something difficult or have a consequence in life that they don't like. They lie every day. And they have very little idea how this will impact their futures. When I try to talk about that, it comes down to them not really caring. They expect life to continue as it always has... to get away with things... to evoke sympathy from others... to do very little and still get by. Very, very sad.

 

And it is for them that we just purchased Total Transformation. I sure hope that dh and I can use this tool and help make a difference for these boys and their futures.

[pqr]

I think the author goes well beyond holding children to high standards and into abusive behaviors. You can be a strict parent without calling your kid a fatty and other names or shaming her into compliance.

 

 

Let me ask you this.

 

A child is fat you can:

 

A. support her and do all those nice things that we as parents try to do.

B. call her fatty, still show love, but pull no punches.

 

Given our experience in this nation which do you think is more effective?

 

The truth is that there is a major problem with obesity in China so there is more to the issue, further obesity is not limited to whites, blacks and hispanics and others, it does hit the Asian communnity.

 

I took away from the article the fact that when a child does not perform to expectations the parent must push the child. For some children a B is all that they are capable of, but as parents we know if it indicated maximum effort or not.

Edited January 8, 2011 by pqr

[Sevilla]

That's why the solution to substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child. The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take the shaming and to improve from it.

I have seen this in action, over and over again in one particular case, and that child was crushed by the weight of her parents' disapproval. She is almost 30 and she says that the last time she remembers her parents being proud of her was when she was in 6th grade because she was in a national spelling bee competition. Seriously - for the past two decades she has only known their shame and disapproval b/c she was never 'good enough' in the traditional ways they wanted. She is envious that my parents love and support me, that my kids learn from their mistakes without being shamed for them, and it has been a long, hard road in adulthood b/c of the way her parents treated her (which is the way the article describes).

Edited January 8, 2011 by Sevilla