Why Chinese mothers are superior?

[Elaine]

I find many of the responses in this thread to be more amusing than the article.

 

It is interesting to me that when discussing curriculum, societal relations between majority/minority groups, religions, etc. there is a never ending stream of accusations of cultural intolerance. Essays and snarks about how we need to understand and accept other cultures abound.

 

This woman writes an article (and presumably a book) that says she feels her culture and how it raises children is more successful than what is practiced in the US. Everyone is immediately up in arms and defending themselves (often via bashing the author). Where is the understanding and acceptance of her cultural differences?

 

I must confess that I'm sure my kids would see aspects of the Chinese mother in me. Maybe not when they are running amok outside building snowmen but certainly when I say they can't race for their mittens until their chores, school work or other obligations are met.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Excellent points as usual.

[justamouse]

Mama Geek, I have heard that also (that Westerners are more creative because we value creativity and independent thought). I think there's truth to it.

 

This is true. Very true. To the point that the Chinese government is using western schooling ideas becuase they KNOW that their people aren't creative and though while yes, their workforce is superior, they come up with no creative solutions--they just manufacture the ones we discover/invent. So as much as we want their work ethic, they want our creativity.

 

I work with and know many Chinese people. Many Asian people. Yes, they are amazing workers, yes, they love their children very deeply, but there is a cost. Higher suicide rates, extreme unhappiness, depression.

 

My one, dearest girlfriend --as much as she is successful, is bipolar also, because of the pressure her family STILL puts on her.

 

It's different, yes, it produces results, and I bet the girls in the article are very proud (as they should be) but that is not the answer for everyone.

 

I still think there is much to learn from the article, though, too.

 

I do not push my daughter and yet she is a straight A student. We have quiet expectations of our children modeled by our own work ethic and success. I myself remember working on a piece of music (I played flute) for DAYS to get it right. My mother would beg me to stop. But I did it because the motivation came from within myself.

 

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences.

 

This is very true.

[hillfarm]

Echoing other pp's, certainly the Asian approach facilitates certain achievements. However, individual families may have varying definitions of whether these achievement equal success. Be a doctor, make lots of money, be powerful in your community, win the admiration, envy, and respect of others. Is it just me or do the end goals of serving humanity, meeting the needs of the suffering, making the world a better place seem to get little attention here?

 

In my family and within our religious community, success is more fully determined by the latter than the former. So while I admire the sacrifice and determination of the Asian parenting model, I feel it best for me to pull out the bits that fit our worldview (hard work, diligence, etc.) and leave the rest.

 

Given the goals we pursue in our quest for success as we define it, while rote learning and much practice are important, they do not produce all of the end skills we desire. Excellent character, good problem solving skills, strong leadership abilities, and of course mature spirituality are all equally critical features in our quest for success. And IMO, these are things that cannot be mandated, they must develop from the child's heart. As a parent, I see it as my job to facilitate and enhance this development.

 

In the future will my dd work for an Asian MD? Perhaps. But it is more likely that she will run her own small business to provide a useful service in our community, be a civic leader, and be on the board of various charitable organizations. And I certainly wouldn't consider this to be the mark of a failure.

[Stacy in NJ]

:001_smile:

 

Yesterday we were learning a particularly difficult lesson from his Algebra I text (Foerster's) and he had a bit of a melt down. He's pretty used to "getting" it quickly and not really struggling over the material. Yesterday he stuggled for quite some time. He had a tantrum, slammed the book closed, told me how stupid algebra is, and stormed away from the table. I yelled, told him he WOULD RETURN TO THE TABLE IMMEDIATELY, and forced him to continue on with the lesson. After a few more minutes he did get it.

 

I was not and am not a particularly good math student/teacher; he is. I regularly tell him, "If I can get it, you can too."

 

Teaching persistence in the face of struggle is VERY important and is not abuse. When you "get" something that was really difficult, THAT is what builds self-esteem.

[LisaKinVA]

A fat kid will at some point in his or her life be called fat. The kid will probably lable him/herself fat at some point. While it may be painful, it is also honest to confront weight or other issues in a straightforward manner.

 

I have to disagree. Repeatedly calling someone fat does not motivate or assist in change, with respect to the change that may be needed on an individual level.

 

A parent can't call a child fatty, and walk away. It is the parent's job to TEACH, and PROVIDE healthy choices. Nor, can we blatently ignore body-types, or possible allergies/illnesses/responses to medications which would be IGNORED by the underlying assumption that someone is fat because they are doing something wrong... by simply calling a child "fatty."

[mcconnellboys]

Well, we all know practice makes perfect.....

[laughing lioness]

This is true. Very true. To the point that the Chinese government is using western schooling ideas becuase they KNOW that their people aren't creative and though while yes, their workforce is superior, they come up with no creative solutions--they just manufacture the ones we discover/invent. So as much as we want their work ethic, they want our creativity.

 

My one, dearest girlfriend --as much as she is successful, is bipolar also, because of the pressure her family STILL puts on her.

 

 

.

 

AMerican Creativity is on the decline (Newsweek, summer 2010 issue).

 

Bipoloar is not "caused" by family pressure. It is a complex phsiological issue. This is an uniformed and simplistic evaluation.

[Elaine]

You learn a whole 'nother skill set when you lose. How to lose gracefully, firstly. Secondly, how to practice and try harder for next time.

 

I agree. Losing builds character, especially when you are taught how to lose gracefully.

[justamouse]

AMerican Creativity is on the decline (Newsweek, summer 2010 issue).

 

Bipoloar is not "caused" by family pressure. It is a complex phsiological issue. This is an uniformed and simplistic evaluation.

 

Creativity is on the decline because we've been teaching to the test trying to keep up with the Chinese.

 

Not only her, but her sisters. Yes, I believe it's phsiological, but the pressure their parents put on them--we were talking about Catholic guilt in another thread? Chinese guilt is worse. No matter what she does, she cannot keep up with her parent's expectations for her. This is a 37 yo woman. Nothing is ever good enough. So while the article says that they are praised? Not in every family.

Edited January 8, 2011 by justamouse

[dirty ethel rackham]

and option C is?

 

Remember, however, that option B does seem to have worked.

But at what cost? Is it all about the almighty dollar and prestige? Is that the importance of our time here on Earth? Not in my view. I know of 3 Chinese teens in our town who committed suicide because of the unrelenting pressure from their parents (one was called a loser because he was not valedictorian - although he had straight A's - apparently there were over twenty students at his high school with straight A's.) I know Chinese adults who have cut off all contact with their parents in order to have ANY semblance of independence about life choices.

[Mejane]

 

This woman writes an article (and presumably a book) that says she feels her culture and how it raises children is more successful than what is practiced in the US. Everyone is immediately up in arms and defending themselves (often via bashing the author). Where is the understanding and acceptance of her cultural differences?

 

 

 

She is calling her mothering and her methods superior. Why should one not disagree/defend?

[Guest]

This is really how Chinese parents are. My half-brother and sister are half Chinese, and their mother reminds me of the mother in the article.

 

A Chinese friend of mine was recently discussing this on facebook. Here is the conversation:

 

Person A: My roommate's son just ask me to help him intercept his report card so his dad won't see it. Ha ha, I wonder if I will ever get mad at my future children just cuz they got a C. =P

 

Friend #1 (Chinese): yes you would, you're chinese :)

 

Friend #2 (also Chinese): Reminds me of my parents. A = Aight.. B = Bad.. C = Crap.. D = Deadmeat.. F =.... :P

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Mejane]

Creativity is on the decline because we've been teaching to the test trying to keep up with the Chinese.

 

 

 

Yes!

[Elaine]

I know Chinese adults who have cut off all contact with their parents in order to have ANY semblance of independence about life choices.

 

And I know plenty of Western adults who have cut off contact with their parents for the same reasons. I don't think that that is exclusive to the Chinese.

[Sputterduck]

Which part? The part where all indications are that the Modern Western Touchy Feely approach is failing? The part where it seems thet the "Chinese Mother" approach is succeeding? The part where the chap who was not pushed and now works for the chap who was will not wish for a reversal of places?

 

Which part?

 

Don't forget that in countries where this style of parenting is the norm have a very high suicide rate among older children.

 

You can slap your children at the piano and refuse them water and refuse to let them go to the bathroom and tell them they are garbage like this mother, if you consider a high suicide rate success. I refuse.

[Guest]

But at what cost? Is it all about the almighty dollar and prestige? Is that the importance of our time here on Earth? Not in my view. I know of 3 Chinese teens in our town who committed suicide because of the unrelenting pressure from their parents (one was called a loser because he was not valedictorian - although he had straight A's - apparently there were over twenty students at his high school with straight A's.) I know Chinese adults who have cut off all contact with their parents in order to have ANY semblance of independence about life choices.

 

Very good point here.

[beaners]

Good family example: Another family wants great things for their kids. They structure their after school time but also see the value of sports. These kids are doing AP in 9th grade, playing team sports (not superstars in this) and seem to be generally happy. The father specifically says he sees good ideas with both Chinese and Western culture and tries to combine the best of both.

 

 

But, can we not choose to take the best of the parenting concepts, raise the bar and combine that with love and fun? Really? I think so!

 

 

 

This is what I do with everything else I come across, so I think it's a good idea. I have no problem ignoring things that I disagree with and pulling out the aspects that I like.

 

I had more to say but I've been interrupted three times since I started typing this out. I'll leave it at that and get back to having high expectations for my children.

[Guest]

Don't forget that in countries where this style of parenting is the norm have a very high suicide rate among older children.

 

You can slap your children at the piano and refuse them water and refuse to let them go to the bathroom and tell them they are garbage like this mother, if you consider a high suicide rate success. I refuse.

 

Exactly.

[lamamaloca]

She is calling her mothering and her methods superior. Why should one not disagree/defend?

 

Exactly!

 

I don't understand why it is OK to criticize our Western culture (which deserves its share of criticism) and not ok to criticize flaws in other cultures? Chinese culture is far from perfect, and this style of parenting does have certain goals and aims, many of which I don't share. I do believe strongly in teaching the values of hard work and perseverance, which I agree modern American culture doesn't teach well at all, but there are ways to do that which still don't hold children to impossible standards and which allow them more down time, more room for creativity, and more time to develop skills other than academic or musical ones.

[justamouse]

But at what cost? Is it all about the almighty dollar and prestige? Is that the importance of our time here on Earth? Not in my view.

 

 

Amen.

[Stacy in NJ]

I have to disagree. Repeatedly calling someone fat does not motivate or assist in change, with respect to the change that may be needed on an individual level.

 

A parent can't call a child fatty, and walk away. It is the parent's job to TEACH, and PROVIDE healthy choices. Nor, can we blatently ignore body-types, or possible allergies/illnesses/responses to medications which would be IGNORED by the underlying assumption that someone is fat because they are doing something wrong... by simply calling a child "fatty."

 

The author of the article didn't indicate that the parent should repeatedly call their child fat and walk away.

 

Quite possible the parent may provide all kinds of support and assistance.

 

And, for the most part, people are fat because they eat more calories than their body requires to function. And by fat I don't mean a little extra meat on the bone; I mean obese.

[Word Nerd]

A fat kid will at some point in his or her life be called fat. The kid will probably lable him/herself fat at some point. While it may be painful, it is also honest to confront weight or other issues in a straightforward manner.

 

Again, you don't have to engage in name-calling to confront a weight problem. Refusing to label children as stupid, fat, garbage, or any other hurtful name does NOT mean a parent isn't being honest or confronting a child's weaknesses. I really can't fathom how anyone could defend telling your kid, "Hey, fatty, lose some weight!" or see it as appropriate, much less as a practice that we would be wise to emulate.

[laughing lioness]

Creativity is on the decline because we've been teaching to the test trying to keep up with the Chinese.

 

QUOTE]

I would attribute it to this as well as the image vs word focus of our kids right now (screens- computer, T.V., games, etc). there is little space or time for kids to develop creativity.

 

I looked up Asian suicide rates. Actually they are going up in the U.S. too.

It's hard to find current rates, especially by ethnicity.

[8circles]

It is abuse in your opinion. After the child perfected the piano piece it was her mother that she ran to, proudly.

 

All of your arguments are proving the author's point. "Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50 Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a problem" and parents "were not doing their job."

 

Well, I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm a HS mother who is here to converse with others with whom I have some things in common. I'm giving my opinion on the article & what it says about "Chinese mothers", not writing a thesis about how I'm right & you (general you) are wrong.

[elegantlion]

Why is there no option C? Are my only options as a parent truly to be a milquetoast or a tyrant? That is my problem with the article.

:iagree:

 

 

Exactly!

 

I don't understand why it is OK to criticize our Western culture (which deserves its share of criticism) and not ok to criticize flaws in other cultures? Chinese culture is far from perfect, and this style of parenting does have certain goals and aims, many of which I don't share. I do believe strongly in teaching the values of hard work and perseverance, which I agree modern American culture doesn't teach well at all, but there are ways to do that which still don't hold children to impossible standards and which allow them more down time, more room for creativity, and more time to develop skills other than academic or musical ones.

 

Well said. ...but then again I was in several school plays as a child, so my viewpoint might be totally irrelevant. :tongue_smilie:

[iwka]

loved it, thanks for posting

[Stacy in NJ]

debilitating that a harsh comment? Teaching them that harsh comments are "harmful" teaches them to be victims and/or vulnerable. I agree that repeated disrespectful name calling can lead to a negative and unhelpful environment, but walking on glass to avoid hurt feelings is equally unhelpful. The truth persistently and gently applied is most helpful.

 

 

Again, you don't have to engage in name-calling to confront a weight problem. Refusing to label children as stupid, fat, garbage, or any other hurtful name does NOT mean a parent isn't being honest or confronting a child's weaknesses. I really can't fathom how anyone could defend telling your kid, "Hey, fatty, lose some weight!" or see it as appropriate, much less as a practice that we would be wise to emulate.

[8circles]

I am torn on this. I don't see how witholding water and bathroom breaks with a 7 y.o. for hours is not abuse. I don't see how making empty threats is an admirable parenting technique either. However, I am an honest person, to a fault some say. I wouldn't lie to my children but being mean is not good either. I don't think it is nice to call anyone names, really. Why would I call my child a fatty, when I wouldn't do that to someone else, it would be considered rude. We could have an honest discussion though about gaining weight and such and about not being a healthy size.

 

I do hope to keep high standards but I think it is also imperative to keep in mind your own child's strengths and weaknesses. Let them flourish in what they are good at and push that. However, my definition of success has more to do with how they treat others, how virtuous of a life they lead.

 

:iagree:

[8circles]

:iagree:

 

 

 

If I had read the article, and it had only contained ideas about media-free days and rigorous schedules, I would have her back regardless of cultural differences. It's the tones of and support for abusive behavior that I find appalling; I can't stomach it.

Yes

 

Recently, I had the privilege of observing a [recently immigrated] Burmese woman beating her 3 year old daughter because the child embarrassed her. Beating. Not spanking. Only me stepping out of a bathroom stall stopped her in her tracks. I took the information to someone who had the authority to speak to her, and he had a talk with the parents about American expectations and how such behavior would no doubt land her in jail, among other things. Cultural differences? Sure. Tolerable on the basis of cultural differences? Not a chance. :glare:

 

I can appreciate and accept the best of all cultures. The basest aspects of every culture, including our own, should be recognized as shameful and not excused as "cultural."

Yes, you hit the nail on the head.

[Dawn in OH]

A rigorous education. A healthy body. Free time. Creativity. Struggle. Faith. For this American mother raising four sons, this is how to grow a man.

 

I have no desire to produce cookie-cutter children in a pressure cooker home. I want hale, hearty, intelligent, and creative children who are firmly grounded in the benevolent humanities of the west.

 

Well said. I love it.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I find many of the responses in this thread to be more amusing than the article.

 

It is interesting to me that when discussing curriculum, societal relations between majority/minority groups, religions, etc. there is a never ending stream of accusations of cultural intolerance. Essays and snarks about how we need to understand and accept other cultures abound.

 

This woman writes an article (and presumably a book) that says she feels her culture and how it raises children is more successful than what is practiced in the US. Everyone is immediately up in arms and defending themselves (often via bashing the author). Where is the understanding and acceptance of her cultural differences?

 

 

Where was her cultural understanding? All I saw in her article was smug superiority and disdain for American culture. Her attitude was racist - Americans are a bunch of namby-pamby idiots.

 

I strive for excellence in my kids, but I have experienced the unhealthy effects of perfectionism in myself and saw it in my kids. I have a son who has the academic capability to compete with many kids like hers, but I also saw how damaging the pressure was to his emotional well-being. This was not about artificially raising self-esteem, but helping him see that academic success (or failure if not perfect) was not a healthy way to view oneself. I want my kids to see themselves as valuable through God's eyes, not necessarily man's. I want my kids to use their gifts to do what God wants them to do with their lives, whether it is to find a cure for cancer, educate people, create art, be good parents or whatever. Although we are very higher education focused, I see just as much value in the neighborhood plumber as the doctor - perhaps more so when my toilet is backed up. This is not mediocrity, this is reality.

 

I want my kids to work hard and do push for excellent work. But I also want them to be themselves - not be super-robots so I can feel superior to the rest of the world.

[LaissezFaire]

Absolutely makes me think of The Joy Luck Club. I know that was fiction but I think it was a very realistic portrayal of the issues that grown Chinese children have with their mothers.

 

I don't want a perfect child. This model is a quest for perfection. I wonder what the suicide rate is for children raised in this manner.

 

On another note. my dad called me fatty all the time growing up and I struggle to this day with body image.

[Word Nerd]

The truth persistently and gently applied is most helpful.

 

I agree with you there. Not calling my kid an idiot, retard, or spaz (or any other name a kid may hear sometime in her life) isn't walking on glass or teaching her to be a victim, though, nor does it mean I'm over-sensitive to her feelings.

Edited January 8, 2011 by WordGirl

[Farrar]

Wow, this conversation took a lot of different turns...

 

My goal is so vitally differnt than this woman's that it's fairly irrelevant to me.

:iagree: Well said.

Like others, I found a few of the things said in the article to be of value and many others to be abusive and short sighted in terms of a parent's relationship with their kids.

 

This is a true reflection of what I saw in China. There are always going to be children who fail, however; the article doesn't address what happens to them. In Taiwan, I knew of mentally disabled children who were locked away from sight, too embarrassing for their parents to take out in public.

 

 

I felt like the "Chinese mother" she described was more of an American immigrant experience than anything. It's not a reflection of what I saw when I was living and teaching in China - of some parents maybe, not of all the people I met at all. Some parents were like this, but others I met very much indulged their children in something like how American parents do - they had high standards, but they also doted on their child and showed a lot of physical affection and allowed them to watch TV, play video games, bought them lots of superfluous gifts, etc. And other parents were simply absentees. The school where I worked had many kids who were boarding students who only saw their parents once or twice a year for a few weeks - which is extremely different from the idea of an overly controlling parent as presented in the article, that's for sure.

 

I was in China a decade ago now and I understand that affluence and changing values are changing the behavior of many parents in China to something that many Americans would recognize as being more like our own - at least in certain ways. And some schools are emphasizing creativity and innovation over the sort of straight memorization we often associate with Chinese education of the past.

 

Let me ask you this.

 

A child is fat you can:

 

A. support her and do all those nice things that we as parents try to do.

B. call her fatty, still show love, but pull no punches.

 

 

Why are these the only options? Why is it either let anything go or call your kid (what I certainly think is) a nasty name? Why can't you draw a firm line and stop the behavior without abusive name calling?:confused:

[goldberry]

Thanks for linking this article. It is extremely thought provoking. I could never parent like that, but I do see some truth in some of the things she is saying. Very interesting reading!

 

And to repeat, no I could never parent like that, but I do not think the mom is horrible or abusive. It doesn't seem her kids think so either.

[justamouse]

According to this article, Amy Chua threatened to burn up stuffed animals, slapped her child while she practiced piano, and wouldn't even let her up to go to the bathroom, and threw homemade birthday cards back in her daughters' faces because the cards weren't good enough.

 

A Superior Mother??

 

The bit about not letting her child pause for a bathroom break reminds me of the Beijing Olympics. The opening number was such a glorious, superior hit because the performers practiced 16 hours per day and were made to wear diapers because it is too indulgent to have bathroom breaks. (Read the article. It gets worse than just the diaper thing.)

 

Oh, yes, how superior to the West.

 

My American children are being taught to hate and fight that sort of inhumane tyranny. We do not admire it or fear it. We despise it.

 

so, maybe in the end, it is her looking for validation as a mother (and as a culture) and not about parenting at all? She wants to be right, she produced two successful children and that is her justification to the her process?

 

huh.

 

Yeah, I'll pass.

[Gratia271]

Just to be clear, because you are quoting me, I do not think that the mom in the article was brutal. She is quite the opposite, actually.

 

I agree.... as demonstrated in my first post.

[kalanamak]

I have met some very bitter children raised by 1st generation Chinese. One put it this way: I was loved and spoiled, and life was a delight until I was 6. Then it was whipping and shouting. Now I'm a doctor, and they shout about where I work, who I marry, it never stops.

 

I see very similar threads in Indian families. When my ex-MIL was carrying on about something, I would take a deep breath and remind myself I never saw piles of Muslim bodies on my father's property in the Punjab in the 40s. (And believe me, when you are being called "The White Wh*re", you take a lot of deep breaths.)

 

The Asian parents I know are trying to take a more moderate route. They love their parents, but don't trust them, and keep secrets like mad.

[Guest Scott in AZ]

This is an interesting article if not shocking. I'm new to these boards, my wife tends to spend more time on them. But when she told me about this article it immediately reminded me of a book that contradicts this article almost directly:

 

The book is called Flow:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Flow-Psychology-Experience-Mihaly-Csikszentmihalyi/dp/0060920432

 

Which is a branch of psychology that is interested in how to obtain the optimal experience - when you immerse yourself in an activity so thoroughly that you lose track of time. Numerous studies have found that certain kinds of people have the ability to enter flow almost at will. And there are certain ways parents can raise their child so they are more able to enter flow.

 

Wikipedia talks about flow here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

 

"According to Csíkszentmihályi, flow is completely focused motivation. It is a single-minded immersion and represents perhaps the ultimate in harnessing the emotions in the service of performing and learning. In flow the emotions are not just contained and channeled, but positive, energized, and aligned with the task at hand. To be caught in the ennui of depression or the agitation of anxiety is to be barred from flow. The hallmark of flow is a feeling of spontaneous joy, even rapture, while performing a task."

 

I actually read the book above and blogged about it - this blogpost is especially relevant:

 

http://tempeturleymusings.blogspot.com/2009/11/flow-families-teenagers.html

 

"Unconditional acceptance is especially important to children. If parents threaten to withdraw their love from a child when they fail to measure up, the child's natural playfulness will be gradually replaced by chronic anxiety. However, if the child feels that his parents are unconditionally committed to his welfare, he can then relax and explore the world without fear; otherwise he has to allocate psychic energy to his own protection, thereby reducing the amount he can freely dispose of. Early emotional security may well be one of the conditions that helps develop an autotelic personality in children. Without this, it is difficult to let go of the self long enough to experience flow.

 

Love without strings attached does not mean, of course, that relationships should have no standards, no punishment for breaking the rules. When there is no risk attached to transgressing rules they becoming meaningless, and without meaningful rules an activity cannot be enjoyable. Children must know their parents expect certain things from them and that specific consequences will follow if they don't obey. But they must also recognize that no matter what happens, the parents' concern for them is not in question."

 

What I fear is that this kind of "Chinese" parenting will lend itself toward an anxiety inducing child experience which is a barrier to flow.

 

You need discipline and consequences, but you also need unconditional love and support.

 

I think there are valid points in this article, but largely I pretty strongly disagree. Parenting so children know how to enter flow, I find to be a concept that resonates.

 

Ultimately, our children will succeed if they find activities that will lend themselves to flow - that obssessive focus, playing the violin for hours out of pure joy - that is the superior path - in my view.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Scott in AZ

[justamouse]

Ultimately, our children will succeed if they find activities that will lend themselves to flow - that obssessive focus, playing the violin for hours out of pure jot - that is the superior path - in my view.

 

You need to post here more often.

 

after reading your blog, that sound a lot like what Dr Epstein says (about teens and responsibility) in A Case Against Adolescence (though I read/have the previous edition, no the new one).

Edited January 8, 2011 by justamouse

[kalanamak]

I just wonder what they would do with a child who had special needs. I shudder to think what that Chinese mom would do to an Autistic child. It makes me want to cry. :crying:

 

I knew a young woman from Hong Kong who had polio when quite young. She was a point of shame for the family. She was never taken out. She was left in a wheelchair/potty while both parents worked and her younger sibs went to day care/ school. When she moved the US (her father got a job as a cook for some wealthy folks), she had rickets from no milk, NO sun. She was so slumped over she could barely breathe. They enrolled her in school, as was required. The school called in services, she had surgery to put a rod in her spine so she could breathe, and then they started to educate her. She was illiterate in all languages at 12. At 22 she started in an upper rank med school, still the shame of her parents who didn't even come to her graduation. I can tell you she was a love-filled person, but she just loathed the Chinese, and considered the US the savior of her life and soul.

[Abigail4476]

...Ultimately, our children will succeed if they find activities that will lend themselves to flow - that obssessive focus, playing the violin for hours out of pure joy - that is the superior path - in my view.

 

Wow. Great post. You should do more than "just visit."

[LibraryLover]

www.asianweek.com/2009/08/14/suicide-rates-rising-among-asian-americans/

 

www.associatedcontent.com/article/716889/the_high_suicide_rate_of_asian_americans.html

 

articles.cnn.com/2007-05-16/health/asian.suicides_1_asian-american-families-asian-women-asian-american-parents?_s=PM:HEALTH

Edited January 8, 2011 by LibraryLover

[justamouse]

http://www.asianweek.com/2009/08/14/suicide-rates-rising-among-asian-americans/

 

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/716889/the_high_suicide_rate_of_asian_americans.html

 

 

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-05-16/health/asian.suicides_1_asian-american-families-asian-women-asian-american-parents?_s=PM:HEALTH

 

the CNN article is fantastic and exactly what I have observed through my being friends with Asian women.

[renmew]

You say that your daughter is capable of more, but she would take no joy in achieving more.

 

I think a Chinese parent would say they could care less about their child's immediate happiness. They are motivating their child for a long term goal-academic success and even more, forming a habit of hard work and self-discipline. Although in our culture, shaming a child or even beating them into working and studying harder is frowned upon, probably for good reasons, there is another side to that coin. Our culture tends to see people as innately smart or talented, and the asian mindset is that WORK produces success, not genetics. I agree with the asian mindset insofar as I want to help my kids to understand that their effort, and their choices, are what will make or break their life, not how "smart" they are.

 

THIS is the major differences between our two cultures. I had a wonderful professor when earning my credential who explained that western families tell their children how smart they are, mostly because we want them to feel good. What happens is kids don't think they have to work very hard, because they were just made "smart." The Asian kids, and I grew up where Koreans were just about the majority population, are never told they are smart. They are praised for their effort and the successes they have based on that effort. They work hard because that is the road to success, not just "being" here, like getting a trophy just for being on the team. THAT concept is the most outrageous bs to ever have been created.

 

I had my first child about a year after taking that course, three kids total now, and try so hard to praise their effort and rarely use the s word (smart). But, I would never abuse my kids, and I think the examples used in the article that made our skin crawl are over the line of what we will accept in our culture, for a good reason. During my 4 years in high school, three kids committed suicide... and all three were Korean.

[LibraryLover]

Originally Posted by Ibbygirl

I just wonder what they would do with a child who had special needs

 

There is a lot of heartache in China. One perfect child, usually male, is the burden, no matter if parents wish it to be different.

 

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36037857/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/

 

Pollution is a huge problem:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8257151.stm

Edited January 8, 2011 by LibraryLover

[renmew]

After all what have "we" accomplished in the last century?

 

How about this:

the internal combustion engine

flight

space flight

the industrial revolution

antibiotics

ammunizations

the atom and splitting the atom

dna and the sequencing of it

the internet

 

We sure are lazy and unmotivated!!!!!!

 

I actually do agree with the "Chinese mother" that we as a culture are overly concerned with self-esteem, but another great quality of Western culture, and American culture in particular, is our flexibility and adaptability.

 

The people who created the things you listed above were raised in an environment far more like the Chinese mother than the kids of the last 20+ years. The current generation entering the workforce (18-30 years old) will not be doing what their parents and grandparents did.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Where was her cultural understanding? All I saw in her article was smug superiority and disdain for American culture. Her attitude was racist - Americans are a bunch of namby-pamby idiots.

 

 

She is calling her mothering and her methods superior. Why should one not disagree/defend?

 

I am neither decrying or defending her parenting style. But I am aware that it is very common in other cultures to have this attitude toward raising children. I am also well aware that there are many cultures who do consider Americans to be a pack of "namby-pamby idiots." Our overall opposition to demanding excellence while excusing ignorance and laziness in our children is certainly one of the reasons why.

 

Yes, she (an American by the way) considers her methods superior. I have no problem dissecting whether a Chinese method of raising children could be successful in a western household. What I do have a problem with is the number of times that I have been told how "culturally sensitive" and respectful I need to be of something like Shari'a law being practiced in the US (which is also abusive and alien to western values) yet there is no need to be equally sensitive and respectful of the culture in which this woman was raised. This is where I see the irony in the discussion.

[laughing lioness]

I knew a young woman from Hong Kong who had polio when quite young. She was a point of shame for the family. She was never taken out. She was left in a wheelchair/potty while both parents worked and her younger sibs went to day care/ school. When she moved the US (her father got a job as a cook for some wealthy folks), she had rickets from no milk, NO sun. She was so slumped over she could barely breathe. They enrolled her in school, as was required. The school called in services, she had surgery to put a rod in her spine so she could breathe, and then they started to educate her. She was illiterate in all languages at 12. At 22 she started in an upper rank med school, still the shame of her parents who didn't even come to her graduation. I can tell you she was a love-filled person, but she just loathed the Chinese, and considered the US the savior of her life and soul.

 

Oy vey!

 

 

The book is called Flow:

 

 

Which is a branch of psychology that is interested in how to obtain the optimal experience -

Wikipedia talks about flow here:

 

.

I have a semantic issue here. I think you'd be hard pressed to show that "flow" is a "branch of psychology."

[Snickerdoodle]

I just told my kids to be happy they weren't born Spartans.